Talk Python to Me with GvR
https://player.backtracks.fm/talkpython/m/100-guido-van-rossum Both audio and transcript. There is more discussion of Guido's pre-Python work than I have read before. Discussion of Python 3 migration starts at 37:05. Guido says harder than expected because Python was more popular than he was aware of at the time. -- Terry Jan Reedy -- https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Python (and me) getting confused finding keys
The lesson of this? Do not make mutable classes hashable. That could be it! I'll try. Thanks a lot! The obvious follow-up is to ask how to make an immutable class. http://northernplanets.blogspot.com/2007/01/immutable-instances-in-python.h tml -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Python (and me) getting confused finding keys
On 22/12/2009 16:33, John wrote: Hi there, I have a rather lengthy program that troubles me for quite some time. After some debugging, I arrived at the following assertion error: for e in edges.keys(): assert edges.has_key(e) Oops!? Is there ANY way that something like this can possibly happen? Cheers, John another thread can remove the key prior to the has_key call; or perhaps edges isn't a real dictionary? -- Robin Becker -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Python (and me) getting confused finding keys
John wrote: Hi there, I have a rather lengthy program that troubles me for quite some time. After some debugging, I arrived at the following assertion error: for e in edges.keys(): assert edges.has_key(e) Oops!? Is there ANY way that something like this can possibly happen? Three ways that I can think of. Doubtless there are more. 1) Mutating the dictionary within the loop: edges = dict.fromkeys (range (10)) for e in edges.keys (): assert edges.has_key (e), edges does not have %s % e del edges[e + 1] 2) A race condition (sort of generalisation of (1)): some other thread removes something from edges during the iteration 3) edges isn't a dictionary but a dictalike structure which doesn't do what you expect for .keys and .has_key. TJG -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Python (and me) getting confused finding keys
John schrieb: Hi there, I have a rather lengthy program that troubles me for quite some time. After some debugging, I arrived at the following assertion error: for e in edges.keys(): assert edges.has_key(e) Oops!? Is there ANY way that something like this can possibly happen? Yes, it happens when another part of your program -- most likely a thread -- modifies edges while you are iterating over its keys. The keys() method of a dict returns a *copy* of its keys. If you had uses for e in edges you'd have seen a RuntimeError dictionary changed size during iteration. With keys() you see the snapshot of edges's keys when keys() is called. Christian PS: Use e in edges instead of edges.has_key(e). It's faster. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Python (and me) getting confused finding keys
another thread can remove the key prior to the has_key call; or perhaps edges isn't a real dictionary? of course. But unless there is a way of using threading without being aware of it, this is not the case. Also, edges is definitely a dict (has been declared some lines before, and no obscure functions have been called in the meantime, just some adding to edges). Python would also fail on edges.keys() if edges wasn't a dict... cheers, john -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Python (and me) getting confused finding keys
On Tue, Dec 22, 2009 at 8:56 AM, John j...@nurfuerspam.de wrote: another thread can remove the key prior to the has_key call; or perhaps edges isn't a real dictionary? of course. But unless there is a way of using threading without being aware of it, this is not the case. Also, edges is definitely a dict (has been declared some lines before, and no obscure functions have been called in the meantime, just some adding to edges). Python would also fail on edges.keys() if edges wasn't a dict... cheers, john -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list Perhaps e doesn't have a consistent hash value. -- Zachary Burns (407)590-4814 Aim - Zac256FL Production Engineer (Digital Overlord) Zindagi Games -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Python (and me) getting confused finding keys
John wrote: another thread can remove the key prior to the has_key call; or perhaps edges isn't a real dictionary? of course. But unless there is a way of using threading without being aware of it, this is not the case. Also, edges is definitely a dict (has been declared some lines before, and no obscure functions have been called in the meantime, just some adding to edges). Python would also fail on edges.keys() if edges wasn't a dict... Well of course you only showed us three lines of code which means that all possibilities are open. And edges.keys () would certainly be valid for something like this (random) class: code class Edges (object): def __init__ (self): self._keys = range (10) def keys (self): return [k * k for k in self._keys] def has_key (self, key): return False def __getitem__ (self, key): return self._keys.index (key) edges = Edges () for e in edges.keys (): assert edges.has_key (e) /code A bizarre example, certainly, but one which illustrates what *might* be happening especially if you only show peephole code. TJG -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Python (and me) getting confused finding keys
En Tue, 22 Dec 2009 13:56:36 -0300, John j...@nurfuerspam.de escribió:
another thread can remove the key prior to the has_key call; or perhaps
edges isn't a real dictionary?
of course. But unless there is a way of using threading without being
aware of
it, this is not the case. Also, edges is definitely a dict (has been
declared
some lines before, and no obscure functions have been called in the
meantime,
just some adding to edges). Python would also fail on edges.keys() if
edges
wasn't a dict...
Ok, then your edges are mutable:
py class Edge:
... def __init__(self, x):
... self.x = x
... def __eq__(self, other):
... return self.x==other.x
... def __hash__(self):
... return hash(self.x)
...
py e1 = Edge(1)
py e2 = Edge(2)
py e3 = Edge(3)
py edges = {e1:None, e2:None, e3:None}
py e2.x = 5
py for e in edges.keys():
... assert edges.has_key(e)
...
Traceback (most recent call last):
File stdin, line 2, in module
AssertionError
py for e in edges:
... assert e in edges
...
Traceback (most recent call last):
File stdin, line 2, in module
AssertionError
Once you compute an object's hash, it must remain immutable. Is this your
problem?
--
Gabriel Genellina
--
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Python (and me) getting confused finding keys
On 12/23/2009 3:33 AM, John wrote: Hi there, I have a rather lengthy program that troubles me for quite some time. After some debugging, I arrived at the following assertion error: for e in edges.keys(): assert edges.has_key(e) Oops!? Is there ANY way that something like this can possibly happen? in a multithreaded program, it's possible another thread erased 'e' after the for-loop grabbed it but before the suite is executed. but often you'll get something like this: RuntimeError: dictionary changed size during iteration -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Python (and me) getting confused finding keys
On 12/22/2009 11:33 AM, John wrote: Hi there, I have a rather lengthy program that troubles me for quite some time. After some debugging, I arrived at the following assertion error: for e in edges.keys(): assert edges.has_key(e) If you are claiming that the above *did* raise AssertionError, then you should show a complete, standalone example, including the code that created edges. That includes the class statement since the above would not happen with a builtin dict. Unless, of oourse, playing guessing games is your intention ;-). tjr -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Python (and me) getting confused finding keys
On Tue, 22 Dec 2009 17:47:14 +0100, Christian Heimes wrote:
John schrieb:
Hi there,
I have a rather lengthy program that troubles me for quite some time.
After some debugging, I arrived at the following assertion error:
for e in edges.keys():
assert edges.has_key(e)
Oops!? Is there ANY way that something like this can possibly happen?
Yes, it happens when another part of your program -- most likely a
thread -- modifies edges while you are iterating over its keys. The
keys() method of a dict returns a *copy* of its keys. If you had uses
for e in edges you'd have seen a RuntimeError dictionary changed size
during iteration.
To be pedantic, you *might* have seen a RuntimeError, as the heuristic
for detecting modifications during iteration is fairly simple and can
only detect changes that change the size of the dict.
d = {1: 'a', 2: 'b', 3: 'c'}
n = 1
for key in d:
... del d[n]
... d[str(n)] = None
... n += 1
...
d
{'1': None, '2': None, '3': None}
--
Steven
--
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Python (and me) getting confused finding keys
On Tue, 22 Dec 2009 17:33:04 +0100, John wrote:
Hi there,
I have a rather lengthy program that troubles me for quite some time.
After some debugging, I arrived at the following assertion error:
for e in edges.keys():
assert edges.has_key(e)
Oops!? Is there ANY way that something like this can possibly happen?
In another post, you assert that:
(1) You aren't knowingly using threads, so it's not likely that another
thread is modifying edges.
(2) edges is a regular dictionary, not a custom mapping class.
In that case, I would say that the most likely culprit is that the edges
are mutable but given a hash function. I can reproduce the problem like
this:
class Edge:
... def __init__(self, start, finish):
... self.ends = (start, finish)
... def __eq__(self, other):
... return self.ends == other.ends
... def __hash__(self):
... return hash(self.ends)
...
edges = {Edge(1, 5): None}
for e in edges:
... assert e in edges # same as edges.has_key(e)
... e.ends = (5, 6)
... assert e in edges, and now it's gone
...
Traceback (most recent call last):
File stdin, line 4, in module
AssertionError: and now it's gone
So the likely problem is that your edge type is mutable and being mutated.
Now, if your code snippet above:
for e in edges.keys():
assert edges.has_key(e)
is a literal copy-and-paste from the failing code, I can only assume that
the edge type __eq__ or __hash__ method mutates self.
The lesson of this? Do not make mutable classes hashable.
The obvious follow-up is to ask how to make an immutable class.
http://northernplanets.blogspot.com/2007/01/immutable-instances-in-python.html
--
Steven
--
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Python (and me) getting confused finding keys
* Steven D'Aprano: [snip] The obvious follow-up is to ask how to make an immutable class. http://northernplanets.blogspot.com/2007/01/immutable-instances-in-python.html Thanks, I've been wondering about that. By the way, the link at the bottom in the article you linked to, referring to an earlier posting by Alex Martelli, was broken. I believe it was the posting available here: url: http://www.opensubscriber.com/message/python-list@python.org/2659890.html. Cheers, - Alf -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Looking for a dream language: sounds like Python to me.
Where can I find a Python functionality like simulink ? Stef, I saw this at: http://showmedo.com/videotutorials/video?name=743fromSeriesID=743 Ray -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Looking for a dream language: sounds like Python to me.
On Jul 27, 10:39 am, David Cournapeau courn...@gmail.com wrote: On Tue, Jul 28, 2009 at 12:28 AM, Dotan Cohendotanco...@gmail.com wrote: It is neither efficient or inefficient: it is just a distribution tool, to deploy python software in a form familiar to most windows users. It does not make it any faster than running the software under a python prompt. As much as I like python for scientific programming, I would say python is pretty far from the stated requirements in the posted blog post. It is difficult to deploy software written with python (much better than the alternatives, though), and it is slow if you can't leverage numpy/scipy (where vectorization does not apply). It remains to be seen whether it will be true in practice, but something like F#, with its integration in VS 2010, seems much closer IMHO. It is compiled, high level language, and backed by the biggest software vendor in the world. The blog post is not looking to distribute his code, but he would like it to be cross platform for his own reasons. VB is not cross platform. I understand his efficient binary as Ansi C partially as a deployment requirement, and independent of cross-platform issues. As a scientist, being able to share my software with colleagues is a non trivial matter. Python does not make this easy today. F# has nothing to do with VB: F# is a ML-language inspired from OCAML, and run on top of the CLR. It can thus leverage the huge .net framework (lack of non numerical API is one of the biggest matlab hindrance, and comparatively big advantage of python + numpy/scipy), and benefits from the much more efficient implementation compared to python (under the currently CPython implementation at least). Some recent F# versions are compatible with mono, making it compatible on most platforms that matter today for research (but of course, you lose the IDE integration outside windows). David- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - I wish . . . For comparisons, Mathcad has the symbolic notation appropriate for mathematical communications. I like features of Mathematica and Maple but Mathcad provides for the user to 'stay' with mathematical symbolism longer. I prefer Matlab execution environment. So I develop concepts in Mathcad, prove them in Matlab and then compile to through C where direct performance is required. Maple and Matlab have this type of relation. Matlab, from The Mathworks, has a companion product called Simulink. This allows the user to graphically build ‘algorithms’ in block form. There is a similar Python function. Each of these components would best be served if allowed to exist independently but supported with transparent integration. I would like to develop in a stable user environment - a stable GUI. And then allow efficient algorithms behind the scenes. By separating the functionality of the workspace, the user can be given (or create at will) a GUI that suites her desires and provides for the creativity and productivity she chooses. The functionality under the GUI should then be pluggable. Developers can provide solutions from many directions, compete for varying performance requirements, enhance functional features technology changes, and still not disturb the fragile user interface. Allow the user the comfort of home. Let them keep whatever GUI suits them and provide for their deployment (if any) needs behind the scenes. Ray -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Looking for a dream language: sounds like Python to me.
Matlab, from The Mathworks, has a companion product called Simulink. This allows the user to graphically build ‘algorithms’ in block form. There is a similar Python function. Where can I find a Python functionality like simulink ? thanks, Stef Mientki -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Looking for a dream language: sounds like Python to me.
Dotan Cohen dotanco...@gmail.com (DC) wrote: DC Referring to this article: DC http://math-blog.com/2009/07/20/complex-algorithm-research-and-development-harder-than-many-think/ DC The author, who is specifically looking for math-related functions, writes: DC DC The dream algorithm RD tool would be similar to Matlab or Mathematica DC but could be compiled to fast, efficient binaries similar to ANSI C DC and would be available for all platforms. An integrated GUI builder DC similar to Visual Basic and integrated network support would be DC helpful. DC DC It looks to me like he is looking for Python. No fast, efficient binaries yet, and no integrated GUI builder. -- Piet van Oostrum p...@cs.uu.nl URL: http://pietvanoostrum.com [PGP 8DAE142BE17999C4] Private email: p...@vanoostrum.org -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Looking for a dream language: sounds like Python to me.
You can generate binaries using py2exe, and you can create UI using Tkinter (which is very easy) or wxPython (which have GUI builders) Mohammad Tayseer http://spellcoder.com/blogs/tayseer From: Piet van Oostrum p...@cs.uu.nl To: python-list@python.org Sent: Monday, July 27, 2009 11:18:20 AM Subject: Re: Looking for a dream language: sounds like Python to me. Dotan Cohen dotanco...@gmail.com (DC) wrote: DC Referring to this article: DC http://math-blog.com/2009/07/20/complex-algorithm-research-and-development-harder-than-many-think/ DC The author, who is specifically looking for math-related functions, writes: DC DC The dream algorithm RD tool would be similar to Matlab or Mathematica DC but could be compiled to fast, efficient binaries similar to ANSI C DC and would be available for all platforms. An integrated GUI builder DC similar to Visual Basic and integrated network support would be DC helpful. DC DC It looks to me like he is looking for Python. No fast, efficient binaries yet, and no integrated GUI builder. -- Piet van Oostrum p...@cs.uu.nl URL: http://pietvanoostrum.com [PGP 8DAE142BE17999C4] Private email: p...@vanoostrum.org -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Looking for a dream language: sounds like Python to me.
[corrected top posting] Mohammad Tayseer wrote: *From:* Piet van Oostrum p...@cs.uu.nl *To:* python-list@python.org *Sent:* Monday, July 27, 2009 11:18:20 AM *Subject:* Re: Looking for a dream language: sounds like Python to me. Dotan Cohen dotanco...@gmail.com mailto:dotanco...@gmail.com (DC) wrote: DC Referring to this article: DC http://math-blog.com/2009/07/20/complex-algorithm-research-and-development-harder-than-many-think/ DC The author, who is specifically looking for math-related functions, writes: DC DC The dream algorithm RD tool would be similar to Matlab or Mathematica DC but could be compiled to fast, efficient binaries similar to ANSI C DC and would be available for all platforms. An integrated GUI builder DC similar to Visual Basic and integrated network support would be DC helpful. DC DC It looks to me like he is looking for Python. No fast, efficient binaries yet, and no integrated GUI builder. -- Piet van Oostrum p...@cs.uu.nl mailto:p...@cs.uu.nl URL: http://pietvanoostrum.com [PGP 8DAE142BE17999C4] Private email: p...@vanoostrum.org mailto:p...@vanoostrum.org -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list You can generate binaries using py2exe, and you can create UI using Tkinter (which is very easy) or wxPython (which have GUI builders) Mohammad Tayseer http://spellcoder.com/blogs/tayseer Creating binaries is not the same as creating /fast, efficient/ binaries. Py2Exe bundles it all together, but does not make it any faster. ~Ethan~ -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Looking for a dream language: sounds like Python to me.
Creating binaries is not the same as creating /fast, efficient/ binaries. Py2Exe bundles it all together, but does not make it any faster. How inefficient is py2exe. I was under the impression that it's really not that bad. -- Dotan Cohen http://what-is-what.com http://gibberish.co.il -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Looking for a dream language: sounds like Python to me.
On Mon, 27 Jul 2009 18:12:09 +0300, Dotan Cohen dotanco...@gmail.com wrote: Creating binaries is not the same as creating /fast, efficient/ binaries. Py2Exe bundles it all together, but does not make it any faster. How inefficient is py2exe. I was under the impression that it's really not that bad. py2exe doesn't really change the performance characteristics of a Python application at all - for better or for worse. Jean-Paul -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Looking for a dream language: sounds like Python to me.
On Tue, Jul 28, 2009 at 12:12 AM, Dotan Cohendotanco...@gmail.com wrote: Creating binaries is not the same as creating /fast, efficient/ binaries. Py2Exe bundles it all together, but does not make it any faster. How inefficient is py2exe. It is neither efficient or inefficient: it is just a distribution tool, to deploy python software in a form familiar to most windows users. It does not make it any faster than running the software under a python prompt. As much as I like python for scientific programming, I would say python is pretty far from the stated requirements in the posted blog post. It is difficult to deploy software written with python (much better than the alternatives, though), and it is slow if you can't leverage numpy/scipy (where vectorization does not apply). It remains to be seen whether it will be true in practice, but something like F#, with its integration in VS 2010, seems much closer IMHO. It is compiled, high level language, and backed by the biggest software vendor in the world. David -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Looking for a dream language: sounds like Python to me.
On 2009-07-27, Dotan Cohen dotanco...@gmail.com wrote: Creating binaries is not the same as creating /fast, efficient/ binaries. ??Py2Exe bundles it all together, but does not make it any faster. How inefficient is py2exe. [Assuming that was a question.] py2exe just bundles up the files needed to run the program. The result runs pretty much the same as it did when it was unbundled. By default, py2exe combines some stuff in a zip file, so that might slow down startup by a tiny amount. If you don't like that, you can tell py2exe not to zip things up, and then the program runs pretty much identically as did the unbundled version. I was under the impression that it's really not that bad. py2exe doesn't really have any impact on the program's perfromance. It's still the same Python VM running the same bytecode using the same library files. -- Grant Edwards grante Yow! I'm totally DESPONDENT at over the LIBYAN situation visi.comand the price of CHICKEN ... -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Looking for a dream language: sounds like Python to me.
It is neither efficient or inefficient: it is just a distribution tool, to deploy python software in a form familiar to most windows users. It does not make it any faster than running the software under a python prompt. As much as I like python for scientific programming, I would say python is pretty far from the stated requirements in the posted blog post. It is difficult to deploy software written with python (much better than the alternatives, though), and it is slow if you can't leverage numpy/scipy (where vectorization does not apply). It remains to be seen whether it will be true in practice, but something like F#, with its integration in VS 2010, seems much closer IMHO. It is compiled, high level language, and backed by the biggest software vendor in the world. The blog post is not looking to distribute his code, but he would like it to be cross platform for his own reasons. VB is not cross platform. -- Dotan Cohen http://what-is-what.com http://gibberish.co.il -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Looking for a dream language: sounds like Python to me.
On Tue, Jul 28, 2009 at 12:28 AM, Dotan Cohendotanco...@gmail.com wrote: It is neither efficient or inefficient: it is just a distribution tool, to deploy python software in a form familiar to most windows users. It does not make it any faster than running the software under a python prompt. As much as I like python for scientific programming, I would say python is pretty far from the stated requirements in the posted blog post. It is difficult to deploy software written with python (much better than the alternatives, though), and it is slow if you can't leverage numpy/scipy (where vectorization does not apply). It remains to be seen whether it will be true in practice, but something like F#, with its integration in VS 2010, seems much closer IMHO. It is compiled, high level language, and backed by the biggest software vendor in the world. The blog post is not looking to distribute his code, but he would like it to be cross platform for his own reasons. VB is not cross platform. I understand his efficient binary as Ansi C partially as a deployment requirement, and independent of cross-platform issues. As a scientist, being able to share my software with colleagues is a non trivial matter. Python does not make this easy today. F# has nothing to do with VB: F# is a ML-language inspired from OCAML, and run on top of the CLR. It can thus leverage the huge .net framework (lack of non numerical API is one of the biggest matlab hindrance, and comparatively big advantage of python + numpy/scipy), and benefits from the much more efficient implementation compared to python (under the currently CPython implementation at least). Some recent F# versions are compatible with mono, making it compatible on most platforms that matter today for research (but of course, you lose the IDE integration outside windows). David -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Looking for a dream language: sounds like Python to me.
Referring to this article: http://math-blog.com/2009/07/20/complex-algorithm-research-and-development-harder-than-many-think/ The author, who is specifically looking for math-related functions, writes: The dream algorithm RD tool would be similar to Matlab or Mathematica but could be compiled to fast, efficient binaries similar to ANSI C and would be available for all platforms. An integrated GUI builder similar to Visual Basic and integrated network support would be helpful. It looks to me like he is looking for Python. -- Dotan Cohen http://what-is-what.com http://gibberish.co.il -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Is Python for me?
On Feb 9, 5:08 am, jiddu [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I'm planning to create a poker calculator, I learned some basic in highschool years ago and I was told for beginners Python is a good language to start. Be sure to check out the Python411 podcast http://awaretek.com/python/index.html Take care, Davy http://www.latedecember.co.uk/sites/personal/davy/?clp -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Is Python for me?
On 2007-02-09, jiddu [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi, I'm planning to create a poker calculator, I learned some basic in highschool years ago and I was told for beginners Python is a good language to start. Python *is* a good language to start. What I wanted to do is to first write a program which will be able to run through all the possible combinations of cards dealt out and use some counters to calculate different probabilities at different stages. Since that is a lot of data I think I have to store it in some kind of database or spreadsheet type thing? Unfortunately, that is a very *difficult* problem; no programming library (save a hypothetical poker probability library) can make it easy. Then I wanted to write a simple user interface so I could use my mouse to make selections of cards that I am dealt and that come on the flop and how many opponents and have the program find the calculated information and display it on the screen. I am wondering if I learn to use Python will I be able to write something like this? My friend studied some C in college so I thought I'd learn C++, turns out it is a very complicated language so I thought maybe I should try something else before I commit more time to the language. Python can help you with creating an user interface, and with several simple, powerful data structures. I think you ought to lower your ambition a bit, at first. Firts write a program to rank complete sets of poker hands. That should hold you for a while. -- Neil Cerutti The recording I listened to had Alfred Brendel doing the dirty work of performing this sonata (Liszt B minor) --Music Lit Essay -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Is Python for me?
Hi, I'm planning to create a poker calculator, I learned some basic in highschool years ago and I was told for beginners Python is a good language to start. What I wanted to do is to first write a program which will be able to run through all the possible combinations of cards dealt out and use some counters to calculate different probabilities at different stages. Since that is a lot of data I think I have to store it in some kind of database or spreadsheet type thing? Then I wanted to write a simple user interface so I could use my mouse to make selections of cards that I am dealt and that come on the flop and how many opponents and have the program find the calculated information and display it on the screen. I am wondering if I learn to use Python will I be able to write something like this? My friend studied some C in college so I thought I'd learn C++, turns out it is a very complicated language so I thought maybe I should try something else before I commit more time to the language. Thank you very much in advance -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Is Python for me?
jiddu wrote: Hi, I'm planning to create a poker calculator, I learned some basic in highschool years ago and I was told for beginners Python is a good language to start. What I wanted to do is to first write a program which will be able to run through all the possible combinations of cards dealt out and use some counters to calculate different probabilities at different stages. Since that is a lot of data I think I have to store it in some kind of database or spreadsheet type thing? Then I wanted to write a simple user interface so I could use my mouse to make selections of cards that I am dealt and that come on the flop and how many opponents and have the program find the calculated information and display it on the screen. I am wondering if I learn to use Python will I be able to write something like this? My friend studied some C in college so I thought I'd learn C++, turns out it is a very complicated language so I thought maybe I should try something else before I commit more time to the language. Thank you very much in advance Yes, use python, you will get the most return on your learning effort, though some learning is required. Start at python.org - docs - tutorial. James -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Is Python for me?
i hope you know that for this task, if you want it to be successfull, you need a really big database. it sounds very simple to this. it sounds like go through all possible permutations. before you start writing any code take a pencil and a big paper and do some maths. i sugesst you read and practise this for about a year about data structures, algorithms and graph theory (just for the begining). Then take a look on data mining and then incpect the era model so you can design a good database. Tic Tac Toe is a much easier problem and there are a lot of possible different games (9*8*7*6*5*4*3*2*1=362 880 i dont consider the rotations). it's true that you learn best by solving a problem, but if stoped on basic on higjschool, then you will need a lot of time to solve this problem. If you remember basic than you should learn python according to basic's possibillities in maximum a month. depending on talent and spare time. i sugesst you take some a a little bit easier problem to learn python. For this speciffic problem it shold be good to learn on other games. I started about 7 years ago on tic tac toe and then with reversi. You are from USA? I come from a differtent continent so i don't know what you learn in schools. But if you didn't learn it, take a look on statistics. very usefull. you should at least know what specific terms mean althought python has them in the numpy module. don't be afraid of all that i said. keep learning and it will pay off. at the end when you crack the poker machine :-) that's the life of a geek. learn , learn, learn and one day comes the jackpot. -- and no, I am not a junkee, I'm addicted to Python -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Is Python for me?
i forgot a query language. something like postgre or mysql On Feb 9, 7:37 am, azrael [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: i hope you know that for this task, if you want it to be successfull, you need a really big database. it sounds very simple to this. it sounds like go through all possible permutations. before you start writing any code take a pencil and a big paper and do some maths. i sugesst you read and practise this for about a year about data structures, algorithms and graph theory (just for the begining). Then take a look on data mining and then incpect the era model so you can design a good database. Tic Tac Toe is a much easier problem and there are a lot of possible different games (9*8*7*6*5*4*3*2*1=362 880 i dont consider the rotations). it's true that you learn best by solving a problem, but if stoped on basic on higjschool, then you will need a lot of time to solve this problem. If you remember basic than you should learn python according to basic's possibillities in maximum a month. depending on talent and spare time. i sugesst you take some a a little bit easier problem to learn python. For this speciffic problem it shold be good to learn on other games. I started about 7 years ago on tic tac toe and then with reversi. You are from USA? I come from a differtent continent so i don't know what you learn in schools. But if you didn't learn it, take a look on statistics. very usefull. you should at least know what specific terms mean althought python has them in the numpy module. don't be afraid of all that i said. keep learning and it will pay off. at the end when you crack the poker machine :-) that's the life of a geek. learn , learn, learn and one day comes the jackpot. -- and no, I am not a junkee, I'm addicted to Python -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Is Python for me?
In [EMAIL PROTECTED], jiddu wrote: I'm planning to create a poker calculator, I learned some basic in highschool years ago and I was told for beginners Python is a good language to start. There's a recipe in the Cookbook that might be interesting for you: http://aspn.activestate.com/ASPN/Cookbook/Python/Recipe/415504 And a library called `poker-eval` with Python bindings: http://pokersource.org/ Ciao, Marc 'BlackJack' Rintsch -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Is python for me?
One resource you should always keep at hand is this extremely useful Quick Reference: http://rgruet.free.fr/PQR24/PQR2.4.html Study it carefully, there is a lot in there that can teach you about how Python works. Fire up IPython as well and start hacking! 2B -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Is python for me?
I think Python is for you. lennart wrote: Can you define 'large'? Is that large in code, or large in database? I don't know which database is supported. If its a external db, like MySql, the query is performed through the software of MySql, am I right? If I'm correct, the 'slowness' comes from the amount of code in python itself, not from the database. I'm afraid dakman's comment wasn't really very helpful. Size is not a problem in itself. Ok, if the code modules are very large, you will have a larger startup time, but this is probably even worse in lower level languages such as C/C++. The python byte code works at a higher level of abstraction than machine code, so the byte code files are much more compact than corresponding executable binaries from e.g. C/C++/Delphi. The Python programming language, with its classes, modules, packages etc is in my experience much better for writing large applications without causing a mess than e.g. C++. It's much easier to make a mess with C/C++'s #include than with Python's import. The lack of static typing means that some problems that the compiler/linker would find in e.g. C++ development won't turn up until you test your code in Python, but you'll get to testing much faster with Python, and if you don't test well, you'll fail with any larger development project however clever your compiler and linker is. Due to Python's very dynamic nature, there are a lot of operations that will be much slower than in e.g. C or C++. For instance, if you write a = b + c in C, the compiler knows at compile time what types a, b and c are, and if they for example are ints, the addition will be translated into a few very simple and quick machine code instructions. In Python, the types typically won't be know until runtime. This means that the objects need to be inspected during execution to figure out what + means for these kinds of objects. Python also handles memory allocation etc. The consequence of this is that some kinds of programs that do millions of trivial things, such as cryptography applications where there are a lot of repeated multiplications and additions, would be much, much slower in pure Python than in pure C. This doesn't mean that Python is bad for a large group of applications. It means that for a large group of applications, there are some parts (for instance computationally intensive or e.g. interfacing with some kind of devices or third party products) that should be handled by extensions written in e.g. C. Whatever you plan to do, it's likely that the extensions you need already exists. There are such extensions for databases, networking, maths, cryptography, XML parsing, etc etc. I'm a programmer working with C, C++, Python, SQL etc, and despite 10 years of Python coding I never actually needed to code any C extension myself yet. It's very likely that you'll get away using 100% pure Python too. Note that large parts of your programs will be C code, but C code you didn't have to write yourself, and as far as your programming is concerned it could as well have been Python, it's just that things will run faster than if it had been pure Python... Have fun! -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Is python for me?
Yes of course python can handle of these things, but have you actually
compared them to something written in C? Even if the app was converted
into bytecode, it's still not as fast as an executable, that's all I am
saying.
Bruno Desthuilliers wrote:
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
By large I mean an application with intensive operations, such as a
fancy GUI maybe a couple of threads, accessing a database, etc.
Threads are handled by the OS. GUI are (usually) handled by a
lower-level lib like GTK or such. DB access mostly rely on the
particular RDBMS. So we're left with the application code itself - the
glue between all these componants. There's usually nothing really
intensive here, and I wouldn't bet using C++ instead of Python would
make a huge difference here - wrt/ perceived performances at least.
My 2 cents...
--
bruno desthuilliers
python -c print '@'.join(['.'.join([w[::-1] for w in p.split('.')]) for
p in '[EMAIL PROTECTED]'.split('@')])
--
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Is python for me?
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: By large I mean an application with intensive operations, such as a fancy GUI maybe a couple of threads, accessing a database, etc. I am still fairly new to Python, I only started using it at the start of this year and then stopped for a while. However the project I undertook at the start of the year built a system using the technologies above, in addition it used SVG graphics, Jabber Instant messaging and the windows API. All of these were built within threads and used a client/server architecture. I have also built some small wxPython based GUI's. Overall I found Python ideal for the task, both in terms of development time and reliability - although my knowledge of the Windows API was not what it should have been (I mainly used Linux/Mac OS X user) so I experienced a few problems. Also there was a lack of good online docs about Python based Windows API calls. You can interface to a few databases very easily including MySQL and SQLite. I have been using the latter recently for my task and it works very well. Also I have found that using Stackless Python drastically improves the reliability of thread based applications. Also performance can be substantially improved by using the Psyco library, although I have know it to make things worse. Overall my experience of Python was very positive and this was in no small part due to the help I received from people here. I hope this helps. Best, Rod -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Is python for me?
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
By large I mean an application with intensive operations, such as a
fancy GUI maybe a couple of threads, accessing a database, etc.
Threads are handled by the OS. GUI are (usually) handled by a
lower-level lib like GTK or such. DB access mostly rely on the
particular RDBMS. So we're left with the application code itself - the
glue between all these componants. There's usually nothing really
intensive here, and I wouldn't bet using C++ instead of Python would
make a huge difference here - wrt/ perceived performances at least.
My 2 cents...
--
bruno desthuilliers
python -c print '@'.join(['.'.join([w[::-1] for w in p.split('.')]) for
p in '[EMAIL PROTECTED]'.split('@')])
--
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Is python for me?
On Mon, 13 Nov 2006 09:11:13 -0800, lennart wrote: Hi, I'm planning to learn a language for 'client' software. Until now, i 'speak' only some web based languages, like php. As a kid i programmed in Basic (CP/M, good old days :'-) ) Now i want to start to learn a (for me) new computer language. I like Python. Its free, easy to learn and some favorite programs of my are written in Python / can understand Python (like OpenOffice) etc. But I'm not a full-time programmer. I know, that I've only time possibility to learn one (= 1) language good. So i ask myself is python the language I'm looking for? ... I've been hesitant to write this in the past but seems like a good time. I'm at the same stage, but (and this is NOT a troll) I'm tossing up between Python and Ruby. I know this has been discussed numerous times but I'd like to come at it from a different angle. I've been 'playing' with both languages and to be honest it's a case of 6 of one, half a dozen of the other. If I'm using python I 'think' python and if I'm using Ruby I 'think' ruby (if that makes sense). Ie I don't find I'm more productive in one over the other to any great extent (pretty unproductive in both ATM to be honest ;-)) . In the foreseeable future I suspect I'll stick with one and just use it for things I personally will use/need. But (and here's where I finally get to a question) I use Linux, I love the whole idea of open source and contributing in some way. So if I ever get to the stage where I can give something back is one preferred over the other? I would have thought no but I read on the Ubuntu site somewhere that they prefer contributions written in Python/ pyGTK?? Is this just a 'preference' or because python is installed by default? (whereas Ruby isn't)? Is it just Ubuntu or Linux distros in general? I hope you can see where I'm coming from here. I don't want to start a Python/Ruby flame war. That's not the question. The question is is one preferred over the other when contributing software and is this just a particular distros preference? cheers, -- Mark -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Is python for me?
Mark Woodward wrote: On Mon, 13 Nov 2006 09:11:13 -0800, lennart wrote: Hi, I'm planning to learn a language for 'client' software. Until now, i 'speak' only some web based languages, like php. As a kid i programmed in Basic (CP/M, good old days :'-) ) Now i want to start to learn a (for me) new computer language. I like Python. Its free, easy to learn and some favorite programs of my are written in Python / can understand Python (like OpenOffice) etc. But I'm not a full-time programmer. I know, that I've only time possibility to learn one (= 1) language good. So i ask myself is python the language I'm looking for? I've been hesitant to write this in the past but seems like a good time. I'm at the same stage, but (and this is NOT a troll) I'm tossing up between Python and Ruby. I know this has been discussed numerous times but I'd like to come at it from a different angle. I've been 'playing' with both languages and to be honest it's a case of 6 of one, half a dozen of the other. If I'm using python I 'think' python and if I'm using Ruby I 'think' ruby (if that makes sense). Ie I don't find I'm more productive in one over the other to any great extent (pretty unproductive in both ATM to be honest ;-)) . In the foreseeable future I suspect I'll stick with one and just use it for things I personally will use/need. But (and here's where I finally get to a question) I use Linux, I love the whole idea of open source and contributing in some way. So if I ever get to the stage where I can give something back is one preferred over the other? I would have thought no but I read on the Ubuntu site somewhere that they prefer contributions written in Python/ pyGTK?? Is this just a 'preference' or because python is installed by default? (whereas Ruby isn't)? Is it just Ubuntu or Linux distros in general? I hope you can see where I'm coming from here. I don't want to start a Python/Ruby flame war. That's not the question. The question is is one preferred over the other when contributing software and is this just a particular distros preference? Ubuntu is pretty much a Python-oriented distribution. A lot of people like it because you always get a fairly up-to-date Python with lots of extras available. I don't know that much about Ruby, but the best approach to software development has always been to choose the best language for solving the problem, so you seem to be doing OK. regards Steve -- Steve Holden +44 150 684 7255 +1 800 494 3119 Holden Web LLC/Ltd http://www.holdenweb.com Skype: holdenweb http://holdenweb.blogspot.com Recent Ramblings http://del.icio.us/steve.holden -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Is python for me?
By large I mean an application with intensive operations, such as a fancy GUI maybe a couple of threads, accessing a database, etc. lennart wrote: [EMAIL PROTECTED] schreef: As stated above python is capable of all those things, however on larger applications like that it can tend to slow down a bit. And the executables do need a little bit of work, because it's bassicly a dll and a library of all your .pyc files. However python is still a great language and I would recomend it. And most of these things will probably be fixed in Python 3000! snip Python very quickly. Can you define 'large'? Is that large in code, or large in database? I don't know which database is supported. If its a external db, like MySql, the query is performed through the software of MySql, am I right? If I'm correct, the 'slowness' comes from the amount of code in python itself, not from the database. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Is python for me?
By large I mean an application with intensive operations, such as a fancy GUI maybe a couple of threads, accessing a database, etc. I can't say I've had any python related problems on such matters. I've done some modestly large-sized apps, and the bottlenecks are almost always I/O bound...disk, network, database (which is regularly disk or network bound). Some stuff has done some fairly intense computation, and it's usually an algorithmic problem, not a python problem (in my case, it was an O(n^2) comparison of every element in one list with every element in another list to find a closest string match to try and gently merge two datasets on merely a person's ill-formatted name). I'm not sure I'd write a hard-core nuclear-explosion simulator or render intense 3d graphics within python. But I'd readily use python to glue together low-level optimized versions of libraries such as OpenGL where performance counts... -tkc -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Is python for me?
Hi, I'm planning to learn a language for 'client' software. Until now, i 'speak' only some web based languages, like php. As a kid i programmed in Basic (CP/M, good old days :'-) ) Now i want to start to learn a (for me) new computer language. I like Python. Its free, easy to learn and some favorite programs of my are written in Python / can understand Python (like OpenOffice) etc. But I'm not a full-time programmer. I know, that I've only time possibility to learn one (= 1) language good. So i ask myself is python the language I'm looking for? In the future, i want to write the following applications: [*] A database driven program, which can handle my clients, tasks and places (= 3 tables, has to work relative with each other). I think, this isn't a problem for Python [*] As a photographer i like to build a picture management system (also db) with raw support. Raw is the raw-data from the sensor of the camera. My questions: - can python encode raw? - can python head for a utility like dcraw? - or head for a utility like IrfanView (delphi?) or something like that? Tnx for your help! -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Is python for me?
In article [EMAIL PROTECTED], lennart [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi, I'm planning to learn a language for 'client' software. Until now, i 'speak' only some web based languages, like php. As a kid i programmed in Basic (CP/M, good old days :'-) ) Now i want to start to learn a (for me) new computer language. I like Python. Its free, easy to learn and some favorite programs of my are written in Python / can understand Python (like OpenOffice) etc. But I'm not a full-time programmer. I know, that I've only time possibility to learn one (= 1) language good. So i ask myself is python the language I'm looking for? In the future, i want to write the following applications: [*] A database driven program, which can handle my clients, tasks and places (= 3 tables, has to work relative with each other). I think, this isn't a problem for Python [*] As a photographer i like to build a picture management system (also db) with raw support. Raw is the raw-data from the sensor of the camera. My questions: - can python encode raw? - can python head for a utility like dcraw? - or head for a utility like IrfanView (delphi?) or something like that? . . . Yes. Yes, Python is generally capable in all the roles you describe. Perhaps most exciting, though, is that you can try out the language yourself, TODAY, over the next few hours, and, in no more time than that, get a realistic if limited idea how it's likely to work for you. With the right introduction URL: http://docs.python.org/tut/ you can be coding usefully in Python very quickly. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Is python for me?
As stated above python is capable of all those things, however on larger applications like that it can tend to slow down a bit. And the executables do need a little bit of work, because it's bassicly a dll and a library of all your .pyc files. However python is still a great language and I would recomend it. And most of these things will probably be fixed in Python 3000! Cameron Laird wrote: In article [EMAIL PROTECTED], lennart [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi, I'm planning to learn a language for 'client' software. Until now, i 'speak' only some web based languages, like php. As a kid i programmed in Basic (CP/M, good old days :'-) ) Now i want to start to learn a (for me) new computer language. I like Python. Its free, easy to learn and some favorite programs of my are written in Python / can understand Python (like OpenOffice) etc. But I'm not a full-time programmer. I know, that I've only time possibility to learn one (= 1) language good. So i ask myself is python the language I'm looking for? In the future, i want to write the following applications: [*] A database driven program, which can handle my clients, tasks and places (= 3 tables, has to work relative with each other). I think, this isn't a problem for Python [*] As a photographer i like to build a picture management system (also db) with raw support. Raw is the raw-data from the sensor of the camera. My questions: - can python encode raw? - can python head for a utility like dcraw? - or head for a utility like IrfanView (delphi?) or something like that? . . . Yes. Yes, Python is generally capable in all the roles you describe. Perhaps most exciting, though, is that you can try out the language yourself, TODAY, over the next few hours, and, in no more time than that, get a realistic if limited idea how it's likely to work for you. With the right introduction URL: http://docs.python.org/tut/ you can be coding usefully in Python very quickly. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Is python for me?
lennart wrote: But I'm not a full-time programmer. I know, that I've only time possibility to learn one (= 1) language good. So i ask myself is python the language I'm looking for? Yep! Python is very much a jack-of-all-trades language. I've used it for similar tasks, including as a front-end for dcraw (I have a little python script to slurp images from a camera with dcraw and convert them all to JPEG). Python has excellent libraries for image manipulation (for example Python Imaging Library) and for abstracting an SQL database to an object-oriented form that makes it a snap to work with (I love SQLAlchemy). You can learn Python really fast, and it sort of guides you in the right direction by providing a correct way to do almost everything without constraining you, so that your code will be consistent and readable. This, in my opinion, is Python's chief advantage over Perl, which is the other highly popular dynamic jack-of-all-trades language. I learned Perl about 10 years ago and loved it for a while, but it's messy as heck and I find my own code from a few months ago nearly unreadable... I also spend a lot more time debugging Perl code because there are so many error-prone things that are silenty allowed rather than flagged as errors. I've been using Python for several months and it's just great for everything. I think it's an ideal first or only programming language! I've had no reason to write a program in anything else since learning Python, and I write a LOT of little throwaway programs. Dan -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Is python for me?
On Mon, 2006-11-13 at 10:14 -0800, Dan Lenski wrote: lennart wrote: So i ask myself is python the language I'm looking for? Yep! Python is very much a jack-of-all-trades language. I'll run the risk of being nitpicky, but the full phrase is Jack of all trades, master of none, which doesn't do Python justice. Python is a master of all trades! But I agree with Dan's sentiment, Python is definitely the language you're looking for. -Carsten. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Is python for me?
Carsten Haese schreef: On Mon, 2006-11-13 at 10:14 -0800, Dan Lenski wrote: lennart wrote: So i ask myself is python the language I'm looking for? Yep! Python is very much a jack-of-all-trades language. I'll run the risk of being nitpicky, but the full phrase is Jack of all trades, master of none, which doesn't do Python justice. Python is a master of all trades! But I agree with Dan's sentiment, Python is definitely the language you're looking for. -Carsten. Tnx everyone for your response! It's just for me a big step to learn a new language. Not because of the difficulty, but because of the time and so. Later, i remembered that Gimp can also work with python (scripts). So, even for my second wish, there will be somewhere, somehow a way to do it. At least: i use the dutch portal http://python.startpagina.nl/ to start with. Can you advice me a good Python interpreter, or a good startpage (as in Python for dummys)? Lennart -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Is python for me?
[EMAIL PROTECTED] schreef: As stated above python is capable of all those things, however on larger applications like that it can tend to slow down a bit. And the executables do need a little bit of work, because it's bassicly a dll and a library of all your .pyc files. However python is still a great language and I would recomend it. And most of these things will probably be fixed in Python 3000! snip Python very quickly. Can you define 'large'? Is that large in code, or large in database? I don't know which database is supported. If its a external db, like MySql, the query is performed through the software of MySql, am I right? If I'm correct, the 'slowness' comes from the amount of code in python itself, not from the database. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Is python for me?
Not to be picky, but any slowness in software is rarely because of code size. Rather, it is the data size and algorithms that play the major role. Only after you got the first two right is that you should worry about implementation speed. That said, you are correct. Only if you intend to do *heavy* processing of the returned data, your major bottleneck should be the database. *If* you find Python to be slow(for some specific operation, never for a whole application), you could always rewrite that section using another language (C/C++ come to mind), or call external libraries to do the heavy-lifting. The easy integration between Python and C (compared to a couple other popular platforms) is what drove me to Python. Make it work first. Then optimize. And Python helps both. Stephen lennart escreveu: [EMAIL PROTECTED] schreef: As stated above python is capable of all those things, however on larger applications like that it can tend to slow down a bit. And the executables do need a little bit of work, because it's bassicly a dll and a library of all your .pyc files. However python is still a great language and I would recomend it. And most of these things will probably be fixed in Python 3000! snip Python very quickly. Can you define 'large'? Is that large in code, or large in database? I don't know which database is supported. If its a external db, like MySql, the query is performed through the software of MySql, am I right? If I'm correct, the 'slowness' comes from the amount of code in python itself, not from the database. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Is python for me?
In article [EMAIL PROTECTED], lennart [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: . . . At least: i use the dutch portal http://python.startpagina.nl/ to start with. Can you advice me a good Python interpreter, or a good startpage (as in Python for dummys)? Lennart Along with the URL: http://docs.python.org/tut/ I already sent you, you can hardly do better than the Dutch-language page you mention above. You might like URL: http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Non-Programmer's_Tutorial_for_Python/Contents ; note that I recommend this as no insult to you, even though you already are a programmer. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Is python for me?
Hi Carsten I'll run the risk of being nitpicky, but the full phrase is Jack of all trades, master of none, which doesn't do Python justice. Python is a master of all trades! FYI that's only *one* version of 'the full phrase'. I, for instance, am a 'Jack of all trades, master of many'. I regard Python in the same light ;-). jon N -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Is python for me?
At least: i use the dutch portal http://python.startpagina.nl/ to start with. Can you advice me a good Python interpreter, or a good startpage (as in Python for dummys)? Lennart -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list check http://www.diveintopython.org/ pretty good book on all the basics, and it's freely available online. for interpreters, try out SPE http://stani.be/python/spe/blog/ , it is free, and has some nice features. And see: http://spyced.blogspot.com/2006/02/pycon-python-ide-review.html for a comparison of 4 ide's (including SPE) -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Is python for me?
Carsten Haese wrote: On Mon, 2006-11-13 at 10:14 -0800, Dan Lenski wrote: lennart wrote: So i ask myself is python the language I'm looking for? Yep! Python is very much a jack-of-all-trades language. I'll run the risk of being nitpicky, but the full phrase is Jack of all trades, master of none, which doesn't do Python justice. Python is a master of all trades! Indeed! That's why I left out the master of none prt :-) For me, Python is jack of all trades, master of everything I've thrown at it so far. Dan -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Is python for me?
lennart schreef: [*] As a photographer i like to build a picture management system Cornice, a cross-platform image viewer, might be a good start. Features Here is a list of the main features of Cornice: * Fully cross-platform: it should run wherever wxPython does; * Detail and thumbnail view for images; * Image preview; * Automatic recognition of images, with a variety of formats supported; * Bookmarks; * Full-screen view; * Zooming and rotation; * Slideshow; * Good keyboard navigation (still not perfect, but this is true for all the features ;-); * Image loading from zip archives; * i18n support (with Italian and French translations available); * EXIF data support; * Some more... For more info, take a look at http://wxglade.sourceforge.net/extra/cornice.html Stani -- http://pythonide.stani.be -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
