Re: How to become more motivated to learn Python

[jladasky]

The best way to increase your motivation to learn Python is: 

1. Select a non-trivial problem that you need to solve with programming.
2. Try to write the program you need in any other language (that you don't 
already know well).
3. Write the program you need in Python.
4. Gaze in astonishment at the time that you could have saved by skipping step 
2.
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Re: How to become more motivated to learn Python

[alex wright]

Beyond motivation, it's not likely just reading a flat text will be
retained meaningfully without creative problem solving.  Personal projects
are the best route in my opinion.  I like reading technical books but I
figure I retain a small percentage of the specifics.
On May 4, 2016 6:32 AM, "mviljamaa"  wrote:

> I tend to not have the patience to go through programming tutorials,
> because I think they're boring. I sometimes use them as reference to see or
> recall how something is done, but I don't step through them in order to
> learn a language.
>
> Rather, I write programs to learn programming and languages. It's easier
> if you have some background in programming in some other language.
>
> I merely pick personal projects that interest me and then try to develop
> them to finish. I seek resources that help me do what I need to.
>
> I think it's easier to be motivated in actual projects that interest you,
> rather than programming assignments.
>
> -Matti
>
> Cai Gengyang kirjoitti 2016-05-03 14:20:
>
>> So I have completed up to CodeAcademy's Python Unit 2 , now moving on
>> to Unit3 : Conditionals and Control Flow.
>>
>> But I feel my motivation wavering , at times I get stuck and
>> frustrated when trying to learn a new programming language ?
>>
>> This might not be a technical question per say, but it is a Python
>> programming related one. How do you motivate a person (either yourself
>> or your child) to become more interested in programming and stick with
>> it ? Is determination in learning (especially in a tough field like
>> software) partly genetic ?
>>
>> Related , This is a very well written essay on determination by Paul
>> Graham
>> 
>> http://www.paulgraham.com/determination.html
>>
>> Gengyang
>>
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>
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Re: How to become more motivated to learn Python

[mviljamaa]

I tend to not have the patience to go through programming tutorials, 
because I think they're boring. I sometimes use them as reference to see 
or recall how something is done, but I don't step through them in order 
to learn a language.


Rather, I write programs to learn programming and languages. It's easier 
if you have some background in programming in some other language.


I merely pick personal projects that interest me and then try to develop 
them to finish. I seek resources that help me do what I need to.


I think it's easier to be motivated in actual projects that interest 
you, rather than programming assignments.


-Matti

Cai Gengyang kirjoitti 2016-05-03 14:20:

So I have completed up to CodeAcademy's Python Unit 2 , now moving on
to Unit3 : Conditionals and Control Flow.

But I feel my motivation wavering , at times I get stuck and
frustrated when trying to learn a new programming language ?

This might not be a technical question per say, but it is a Python
programming related one. How do you motivate a person (either yourself
or your child) to become more interested in programming and stick with
it ? Is determination in learning (especially in a tough field like
software) partly genetic ?

Related , This is a very well written essay on determination by Paul
Graham
http://www.paulgraham.com/determination.html

Gengyang

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Re: How to become more motivated to learn Python

[Marko Rauhamaa]

Terry Reedy :

> In case you like minecraft, I just discovered this today
> https://www.nostarch.com/programwithminecraft "Learn to Program with
> Minecraft"
>
> It uses a socket client written in 3.5 to interface to a minecraft 1.8
> socket server written in java 7. One can at least do simple things
> like move the player, identify and place blocks, and put text in the
> chat box.

Hm, I think it would be more exciting to construct a small Python engine
using redstone.

(I actually went pretty far trying to build a tiny, functional CPU using
redstone. I can tell you it's tedious work. Makes you appreciate the
advances in transistor density in the past half-century. Too bad
redstone is glitchy -- by design, I suppose. After your contraption
becomes large enough, it keeps glitching out and you spend all your time
debugging and repairing it.)


Marko
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Re: How to become more motivated to learn Python

[Terry Reedy]

On 5/3/2016 10:55 PM, Cai Gengyang wrote:


Guess it would be really cool to work on AI and games. ( I have been
addicted to computer games for a long time lol --- To be able to
design a blockbuster like Starcraft 2, Diablo 3 or Final Fantasy 7
would be an incredible feat !)


In case you like minecraft, I just discovered this today
https://www.nostarch.com/programwithminecraft
"Learn to Program with Minecraft"

It uses a socket client written in 3.5 to interface to a minecraft 1.8 
socket server written in java 7.  One can at least do simple things like 
move the player, identify and place blocks, and put text in the chat box.


--
Terry Jan Reedy

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Re: How to become more motivated to learn Python

[Larry Hudson via Python-list]

On 05/03/2016 07:55 PM, Cai Gengyang wrote:

Cool, I have finally summoned up enough activation energy to start on Unit 3, 
now going through the topic on Conditionals and Control Flows (stuff like this)


boolthree = 200 == (50 * 5)
boolthree

False

Guess it would be really cool to work on AI and games. ( I have been addicted 
to computer games for a long time lol --- To be able to design a blockbuster 
like Starcraft 2, Diablo 3 or Final Fantasy 7 would be an incredible feat !)



For an introduction to Python via games you might want to check out the book "Invent Your Own 
Computer Games With Python".  (However, these are strictly text-based games -- no graphics, but 
a fairly good intro to Python programming.)  It's available to read on-line, or for download as 
a .pdf athttp://inventwithpython.com/


Use the "PDF and All Source Code" link to download it.

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Re: How to become more motivated to learn Python

[Christopher Reimer]

On 5/3/2016 8:00 PM, DFS wrote:

How far along are you in your engine development?


I can display a text-based chess board on the console (looks better with 
a mono font).



 8   BR BN BB BQ BK BB BN BR

 7   BP BP BP BP BP BP BP BP

 6   __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __

 5   __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __

 4   __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __

 3   __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __

 2   WP WP WP WP WP WP WP WP

 1   WR WN WB WQ WK WB WN WR

 A  B  C  D  E  F  G  H


With feedback from this list, I had to break a lot of bad Java habits to 
make the code more Pythonic. Right now I'm going back and forth between 
writing documentation and unit tests. Once I finalized the code in its 
current state, I'll post it up on GitHub under the MIT license. Future 
updates will have a fuller console interface and moves for individual 
pieces implemented.


Thank you,

Chris R.
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Re: How to become more motivated to learn Python

[DFS]

On 5/3/2016 10:12 PM, Christopher Reimer wrote:



When I realized that I wasn't learning enough about the Python language
from translating BASIC games, I started coding a chess engine. If you
ever look at the academic literature for chess programming from the last
50+ years, you can spend a lifetime solving the programming challenges
from implementing the game of kings.



We can have a good thread on python chess engines some time.  I'm also 
going to write a chess engine in python - follow the UCI protocol and 
all.  You're way ahead of me, I'm sure, but I did already look into 
algebraic notation, game recording, FEN and all that.


pyChess is a nice little game: www.pychess.org

The one thing I'm not going to do is review anyone else's code until I 
put out v1.0 of my own.  My goal with v1.0 is for the pieces to make 
valid moves.  That's it.  Following that, I'll work in getting the game 
recording right.  No 'strategy' at first.  Maybe later I can load a 
library of well-known openings and try to utilize them.


How far along are you in your engine development?

Getting the code for en passant and castling right looks to be a bit of 
an obstacle.


What's nice is the strongest engine (Stockfish) is totally open source.


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Re: How to become more motivated to learn Python

[Cai Gengyang]

Cool, I have finally summoned up enough activation energy to start on Unit 3, 
now going through the topic on Conditionals and Control Flows (stuff like this)

>>> boolthree = 200 == (50 * 5)
>>> boolthree
False

Guess it would be really cool to work on AI and games. ( I have been addicted 
to computer games for a long time lol --- To be able to design a blockbuster 
like Starcraft 2, Diablo 3 or Final Fantasy 7 would be an incredible feat !) 

Didn't know that chess programming goes back 50+ years --- I always thought 
that computer programs were a recent invention. As it turns out , Ada Lovelace 
wrote the world's first computer program in 1842 
(http://www.todayifoundout.com/index.php/2011/02/in-1842-ada-lovelace-wrote-the-worlds-first-computer-program/)
 if this piece is true 




On Wednesday, May 4, 2016 at 10:13:13 AM UTC+8, Christopher Reimer wrote:
> On 5/3/2016 4:20 AM, Cai Gengyang wrote:
> > So I have completed up to CodeAcademy's Python Unit 2 , now moving on to 
> > Unit3 : Conditionals and Control Flow.
> >
> > But I feel my motivation wavering , at times I get stuck and frustrated 
> > when trying to learn a new programming language ?
> >
> > This might not be a technical question per say, but it is a Python 
> > programming related one. How do you motivate a person (either yourself or 
> > your child) to become more interested in programming and stick with it ? Is 
> > determination in learning (especially in a tough field like software) 
> > partly genetic ?
> >
> > Related , This is a very well written essay on determination by Paul Graham 
> > http://www.paulgraham.com/determination.html
> >
> > Gengyang
> 
> I started out translating old BASIC games into Python. These are the 
> same BASIC games that I tried to program into my Commodore 64 without 
> much success when I was much younger. Many of these BASIC games are a 
> good introduction to classical programming problems like rolling dice 
> and playing cards.
> 
> http://www.atariarchives.org/basicgames/
> 
> When I realized that I wasn't learning enough about the Python language 
> from translating BASIC games, I started coding a chess engine. If you 
> ever look at the academic literature for chess programming from the last 
> 50+ years, you can spend a lifetime solving the programming challenges 
> from implementing the game of kings.
> 
> Thank you,
> 
> Chris R.
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Re: How to become more motivated to learn Python

[Christopher Reimer]

On 5/3/2016 4:20 AM, Cai Gengyang wrote:

So I have completed up to CodeAcademy's Python Unit 2 , now moving on to Unit3 
: Conditionals and Control Flow.

But I feel my motivation wavering , at times I get stuck and frustrated when 
trying to learn a new programming language ?

This might not be a technical question per say, but it is a Python programming 
related one. How do you motivate a person (either yourself or your child) to 
become more interested in programming and stick with it ? Is determination in 
learning (especially in a tough field like software) partly genetic ?

Related , This is a very well written essay on determination by Paul Graham 
http://www.paulgraham.com/determination.html

Gengyang


I started out translating old BASIC games into Python. These are the 
same BASIC games that I tried to program into my Commodore 64 without 
much success when I was much younger. Many of these BASIC games are a 
good introduction to classical programming problems like rolling dice 
and playing cards.


http://www.atariarchives.org/basicgames/

When I realized that I wasn't learning enough about the Python language 
from translating BASIC games, I started coding a chess engine. If you 
ever look at the academic literature for chess programming from the last 
50+ years, you can spend a lifetime solving the programming challenges 
from implementing the game of kings.


Thank you,

Chris R.


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RE: How to become more motivated to learn Python

[Clayton Kirkwood]

Find some thing that you really need done, but you've put off because you
didn't have the programming knowledge to do.
Program parts of some thing that you are really interested in doing. For
instance, at some point, I need to find duplicate copies of hardcopy photos
that I have. I'd love to write a program that sorts, compares, and marks as
duplicates. I think I would go about doing this similar to facial
recognition or eye recognition where I would look for 30 points on each
photo and compare them instead of scanning and comparing every bit.

crk

> -Original Message-
> From: Python-list [mailto:python-list-
> bounces+crk=godblessthe...@python.org] On Behalf Of Cai Gengyang
> Sent: Tuesday, May 03, 2016 4:21 AM
> To: python-list@python.org
> Subject: How to become more motivated to learn Python
> 
> So I have completed up to CodeAcademy's Python Unit 2 , now moving on to
> Unit3 : Conditionals and Control Flow.
> 
> But I feel my motivation wavering , at times I get stuck and frustrated
when
> trying to learn a new programming language ?
> 
> This might not be a technical question per say, but it is a Python
programming
> related one. How do you motivate a person (either yourself or your child)
to
> become more interested in programming and stick with it ? Is determination
> in learning (especially in a tough field like software) partly genetic ?
> 
> Related , This is a very well written essay on determination by Paul
Graham --
> --
> http://www.paulgraham.com/determination.html
> 
> Gengyang
> --
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list

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Re: How to become more motivated to learn Python

[mm0fmf]

On 03/05/2016 17:50, Rob Gaddi wrote:

Cai Gengyang wrote:


So I have completed up to CodeAcademy's Python Unit 2 , now moving on to Unit3 
: Conditionals and Control Flow.

But I feel my motivation wavering , at times I get stuck and frustrated when 
trying to learn a new programming language ?

This might not be a technical question per say, but it is a Python programming 
related one. How do you motivate a person (either yourself or your child) to 
become more interested in programming and stick with it ? Is determination in 
learning (especially in a tough field like software) partly genetic ?

Related , This is a very well written essay on determination by Paul Graham 
http://www.paulgraham.com/determination.html

Gengyang


You don't.  Learning programming is dull and sloggy and inherently
unmotiving.

Now, solving a problem, on the other hand.  Solving a problem is fun.  A
real problem, an actual task that you actually need to do, not
FizzBang.  The thorny, nasty, horrible problems are great fun, and when
you beat them into submission and mount their heads on your wall, but
even the little ones like "I've got an 8GB USB stick, I want to put a
random selection of all my MP3 files onto it." are entertaining.

The Python's not the point.  It can never be the point.  Have a thing
you want to do, and not just "Get a high paying job." If the tool for
doing that thing is Python, so be it. If you need a soldering iron, or a
hammer and chisel, or a structural engineering degree instead, then go
figure out how to use one of those and Python will still be waiting when
you do need it.



+1

I learned Python because... I had a problem to solve.

First I had to recompile a Linux kernel for an oddball PPC based NAS I 
used a lowpower computer. Then I had to find the patches that fixed some 
USB issues. Then I had to make a USB GSM modem work as it was a nasty 
Windows Zero-CD system. Then I wrote a program in C/C++ to process data 
from the modem and play with the ASCII strings and then push them to a 
website. I used libcurl to do the web work. It was a nightmare to 
debug/enhance and handling raw C strings in C or C++ was a pain. And I 
thought there has to be a better way.


I kept seeing mention of Python so I thought I'll rewrite this in 
Python. But I couldn't find Python 2.7.x for PPC so I had to get the 
Python source and build that from scrath and check it worked OK.


It took about 7 days of deep hacking to be able to rewrite on a line by 
line basis the C/C++ in Python. Boy was it ugly. But it worked. Then as 
I enhanced the program it became more Pythonic and I starting using the 
language and not abusing it. And the more I used it the easier it 
became. That code is online on a cheap VM running 24/7 and has about 450 
users worldwide growing by several a week. This group was huge source of 
inspiration looking at the replies people gave to questions. It also 
motivated me to stop faffing about and convert my Python2 code to 
Python3 which again was straightforward.


So I learned Python to solve a real world problem and it took a huge 
amount of effort along the way to realise I had to get a better way to 
maintain a program that was now being relied on by others. I didn't set 
out to learn Python but I'm sure glad I did.


In 33 years of code bashing, I found a language that let me think about 
the problem not the programming language.


YMMV




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Re: How to become more motivated to learn Python

[Rob Gaddi]

Cai Gengyang wrote:

> So I have completed up to CodeAcademy's Python Unit 2 , now moving on to 
> Unit3 : Conditionals and Control Flow. 
>
> But I feel my motivation wavering , at times I get stuck and frustrated when 
> trying to learn a new programming language ?
>
> This might not be a technical question per say, but it is a Python 
> programming related one. How do you motivate a person (either yourself or 
> your child) to become more interested in programming and stick with it ? Is 
> determination in learning (especially in a tough field like software) partly 
> genetic ?
>
> Related , This is a very well written essay on determination by Paul Graham 
> http://www.paulgraham.com/determination.html
>
> Gengyang

You don't.  Learning programming is dull and sloggy and inherently
unmotiving.

Now, solving a problem, on the other hand.  Solving a problem is fun.  A
real problem, an actual task that you actually need to do, not
FizzBang.  The thorny, nasty, horrible problems are great fun, and when
you beat them into submission and mount their heads on your wall, but
even the little ones like "I've got an 8GB USB stick, I want to put a
random selection of all my MP3 files onto it." are entertaining.

The Python's not the point.  It can never be the point.  Have a thing
you want to do, and not just "Get a high paying job." If the tool for
doing that thing is Python, so be it. If you need a soldering iron, or a
hammer and chisel, or a structural engineering degree instead, then go
figure out how to use one of those and Python will still be waiting when
you do need it.

-- 
Rob Gaddi, Highland Technology -- www.highlandtechnology.com
Email address domain is currently out of order.  See above to fix.
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Re: How to become more motivated to learn Python

[Sayth Renshaw]

On Tuesday, 3 May 2016 21:21:21 UTC+10, Cai Gengyang  wrote:
> So I have completed up to CodeAcademy's Python Unit 2 , now moving on to 
> Unit3 : Conditionals and Control Flow. 
> 
> But I feel my motivation wavering , at times I get stuck and frustrated when 
> trying to learn a new programming language ?
> 
> This might not be a technical question per say, but it is a Python 
> programming related one. How do you motivate a person (either yourself or 
> your child) to become more interested in programming and stick with it ? Is 
> determination in learning (especially in a tough field like software) partly 
> genetic ?
> 
> Related , This is a very well written essay on determination by Paul Graham 
> http://www.paulgraham.com/determination.html
> 
> Gengyang

I have more determination than skill, look at my code :-).

Why, and how can you benefit?

Goals, not just related to Python but goals about what it and my other leanings 
combined will provide. I doubt whether if you are learning for learning sake 
that there is a possible motivation.

In short I coach in corporate world for a living and it becomes quite clear and 
simple on how to get people to achieve goals and meet KRA's its not magic. 
Listen -> Identify values, beliefs and goals -> Discuss vision and outcomes of 
taking a new action (ambitions) -> Relate the business request to this action 
-> then tie the new action to their values what it brings and you have also 
tied them to the business strategy and goals.
As Tony Robbins said it takes a least 3 legs to make a stool. 
Values - Ambitions - Actions

Listen (in this case to yourself), identify key values, beliefs and family 
goals. Then ask yourself how by learning python can I will enrich one or all of 
these facets of my life. Tie the action of learning to a goal which defines 
your vision and your action learning python. 

With a bonus it should hopefully give you more clarity into what sectors of 
Python you want to learn, the great thing about Python is that it is in so many 
domains.

Hope it helps

Sayth
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