Re: Problem using cx_Freeze > auto-py-to-exe
On Thu, 18 Aug 2022 12:17:25 -0600, David at Booomer declaimed the following: > >I did count but hadn’t noticed this argument list before you mentioned it. >However, I still don’t see any of these argument names in the Executable list >or anywhere else. > It's your responsibility to provide them when you called Executable(). As I said, you are (were?) providing a whole bunch of .py files, which were being mapped to these arguments. >""" >argument name description > >#1 >script the name of the file containing >the script >which is to be frozen > prjui.py >#2 >init_scriptthe name of the initialization >script that will >be executed before the actual script is executed; this script is used to >set up the environment for the executable; if a name is given without an >absolute path the names of files in the initscripts subdirectory of the >cx_Freeze package is searched > Maiui.py >#3 >base the name of the base >executable; if a name is >given without an absolute path the names of files in the bases subdirectory >of the cx_Freeze package is searched > about.py >#4 >target_namethe name of the target executable; the >default >value is the name of the script; the extension is optional (automatically >added on Windows); support for names with version; if specified a pathname, >raise an error. > dict.py >#5 >icon name of icon which should be >included in the >executable itself on Windows or placed in the target directory for other >platforms (ignored in Microsoft Store Python app) > geometry.py >#6 >manifest name of manifest which should >be included in >the executable itself (Windows only - ignored by Python app from Microsoft >Store) > getEquation.py >#7 >uac-admin creates a manifest for an >application that will >request elevation (Windows only - ignored by Python app from Microsoft >Store) > gtrail.py >#8 >shortcut_name the name to give a shortcut for the >executable >when included in an MSI package (Windows only). > main.py >#9 >shortcut_dir the directory in which to place >the >shortcut when being installed by an MSI package; see the MSI Shortcut table >documentation for more information on what values can be placed here >(Windows only). matchingstring.py >#10 >copyright the copyright value to include >in the version >resource associated with executable (Windows only). > producelatex.py >#11 >trademarks the trademarks value to include >in the version >resource associated with the executable (Windows only). readfile.py and separete.py speak.py are not mapped to anything, hence the too-many arguments error. >""" As you can see, a lot of those don't even fit with the data type of the argument. > >I tried passing just main.py or one of the others that might be a starting >point but just got ’NoneType has no len() What did the traceback say? Just reporting the last line message is meaningless. >Then I searched for ‘python executable’ and found auto-py-to-exe and >pyinstaller which I must/might explore later. First tries ran into PyQt4 to >PyQt5 conversions. Good start at >https://towardsdatascience.com/how-to-easily-convert-a-python-script-to-an-executable-file-exe-4966e253c7e9 > Note that pretty much all such python->executable scheme is just making an archive of the required Python source files, and packaging the core of the Python interpreter is such a way that running this archive is simply extracting the source files and running the packaged Python interpreter with them. -- Wulfraed Dennis Lee Bieber AF6VN wlfr...@ix.netcom.comhttp://wlfraed.microdiversity.freeddns.org/ -- https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Problem using cx_Freeze > auto-py-to-exe
On Fri, 19 Aug 2022 at 10:07, Grant Edwards wrote: > > On 2022-08-18, Chris Angelico wrote: > > On Fri, 19 Aug 2022 at 05:05, Grant Edwards > > wrote: > >> On 2022-08-18, Chris Angelico wrote: > >> > >> > It's one of the frustrations with JSON, since that format doesn't > >> > allow the trailing comma :) > >> > >> Yep, that's a constant, low-level pain for all the C code I deal with > >> which generates JSON. You'd think after 10+ years of maintaining code > >> that outputs JSON, I wouldn't trip over that any longer... > > > > With some JSON files, I just cheat and define a shim at the end of arrays... > > > > https://raw.githubusercontent.com/Rosuav/MustardMine/master/template.json > > That's OK if it's strictly internal. Almost all of the JSON data I > work with is part of published APIs — many of which are defined by > industry consortiums or corporate-wide "standards". > That's an export/import format that I defined, so I mandated (a) that there's an empty-string key as a signature (on import, it can be anywhere, but on export, it's that final shim), and (b) all arrays are allowed to have an empty string at the end, which is ignored on import. Saves so much trouble. That particular export format is actually designed as a git-managed config file as well, which is why the line breaks are done the way they are (anything on a single line is intended to be added/removed as a single unit), which is why I definitely don't want the "add a comma to the previous line" deltas. "Strictly internal" is a subset of "protocols/standards that you are in control of". :) ChrisA -- https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Problem using cx_Freeze > auto-py-to-exe
On 2022-08-18, Chris Angelico wrote: > On Fri, 19 Aug 2022 at 05:05, Grant Edwards wrote: >> On 2022-08-18, Chris Angelico wrote: >> >> > It's one of the frustrations with JSON, since that format doesn't >> > allow the trailing comma :) >> >> Yep, that's a constant, low-level pain for all the C code I deal with >> which generates JSON. You'd think after 10+ years of maintaining code >> that outputs JSON, I wouldn't trip over that any longer... > > With some JSON files, I just cheat and define a shim at the end of arrays... > > https://raw.githubusercontent.com/Rosuav/MustardMine/master/template.json That's OK if it's strictly internal. Almost all of the JSON data I work with is part of published APIs — many of which are defined by industry consortiums or corporate-wide "standards". -- Grant -- https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Problem using cx_Freeze
Hope you had a good time. On Wed, Aug 17, 2022 at 10:19 PM Peter J. Holzer wrote: > On 2022-08-17 12:09:14 -0600, David at Booomer wrote: > > Executable( > > > "prjui.py","Maiui.py","about.py","dict.py","geometry.py","getEquation.py", > > > "gtrail.py","main.py","matchingstring.py","producelatex.py","readfile.py", > > "separete.py","speak.py", > > ) > [...] > > I am/was worried about the trailing ‘,' after ',"speak.py”,’ <- but > > deleting it or moving it after the ] didn’t help. > > This has nothing to do with your problem but: > > Python allows a trailing comma in any comma-separated list of values. It > will just be ignored. > > This is really common in modern programming languages (read: programming > languages younger than 30 years or so), because it makes it much more > convenient to extend/shorten/reorder a list. Otherwise you alway have to > remember add or remove a comma in the right place. (Some people > (especially SQL programmers for some reason) resorted to put the comma > at the start of each line to get around this, which is really ugly.) > > hp > > -- >_ | Peter J. Holzer| Story must make more sense than reality. > |_|_) || > | | | h...@hjp.at |-- Charles Stross, "Creative writing > __/ | http://www.hjp.at/ | challenge!" > -- > https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list > -- https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Problem using cx_Freeze > auto-py-to-exe
On Fri, 19 Aug 2022 at 05:05, Grant Edwards wrote: > > On 2022-08-18, Chris Angelico wrote: > > On Fri, 19 Aug 2022 at 04:19, David at Booomer wrote: > > > >> The trailing , does make commenting out arguments easier but > >> unexpected coming from ‘older’ languages. ;-) > > > > It's one of the frustrations with JSON, since that format doesn't > > allow the trailing comma :) > > Yep, that's a constant, low-level pain for all the C code I deal with > which generates JSON. You'd think after 10+ years of maintaining code > that outputs JSON, I wouldn't trip over that any longer... > With some JSON files, I just cheat and define a shim at the end of arrays... https://raw.githubusercontent.com/Rosuav/MustardMine/master/template.json ChrisA -- https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Problem using cx_Freeze > auto-py-to-exe
On 2022-08-18, Chris Angelico wrote: > On Fri, 19 Aug 2022 at 04:19, David at Booomer wrote: > >> The trailing , does make commenting out arguments easier but >> unexpected coming from ‘older’ languages. ;-) > > It's one of the frustrations with JSON, since that format doesn't > allow the trailing comma :) Yep, that's a constant, low-level pain for all the C code I deal with which generates JSON. You'd think after 10+ years of maintaining code that outputs JSON, I wouldn't trip over that any longer... -- Grant -- https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Problem using cx_Freeze > auto-py-to-exe
On Fri, 19 Aug 2022 at 04:19, David at Booomer wrote: > > This is really common in modern programming languages (read: programming > > languages younger than 30 years or so), because it makes it much more > > convenient to extend/shorten/reorder a list. Otherwise you alway have to > > remember add or remove a comma in the right place. (Some people > > (especially SQL programmers for some reason) resorted to put the comma > > at the start of each line to get around this, which is really ugly.) > > > >hp > > The trailing , does make commenting out arguments easier but unexpected > coming from ‘older’ languages. ;-) > It's one of the frustrations with JSON, since that format doesn't allow the trailing comma :) ChrisA -- https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Problem using cx_Freeze > auto-py-to-exe
From: Dennis Lee Bieber
>
> On Wed, 17 Aug 2022 12:09:14 -0600, David at Booomer
> declaimed the following:
>
>> executables=[
>> Executable(
>>
>> "prjui.py","Maiui.py","about.py","dict.py","geometry.py","getEquation.py",
>>
>> "gtrail.py","main.py","matchingstring.py","producelatex.py","readfile.py",
>> "separete.py","speak.py",
>> )
>> ]
>> )
>>
> You are defining a list "executables" with only ONE member... (and is
> that really how you spelled "separate").
Not my spelling, although I do have to be careful when typing that word.
From before:
"I’m trying to get LaTex-to-Speech
(https://github.com/SGanesh19/LaTeX-to-Speech) to run as an accessibility aid,
converting equations into speech. I haven’t used cx_Freeze before so stumbling
somewhat."
>
>> Searching for ‘__init__(' in the 13 *.py files returned five lines in two
>> files (algorithm.py and prjui.py). As mentioned searching for this error
>> only produced mention of adding self which is in these lines already.
>> Previously I had search for __init__() which returned no lines due to the
>> closing ).
>>
> You are still searching the wrong place... The __init__() that is
> complaining is the one in cx_Freeze.Executable().
>
>> I had visited the page you provided
>> (https://cx-freeze.readthedocs.io/en/latest/setup_script.html#cx-freeze-executable)
>> but didn’t noticed the 11 plus self as 12 arguments.
>
> Really? Please count (reformatted from cut):
I did count but hadn’t noticed this argument list before you mentioned it.
However, I still don’t see any of these argument names in the Executable list
or anywhere else.
> """
> argument name description
>
> #1
> scriptthe name of the file
> containing the script
> which is to be frozen
>
> ...
>
> #11
> trademarksthe trademarks value to include
> in the version
> resource associated with the executable (Windows only).
> """
>
> You are passing 13 .py file names. There are only two arguments that
> really want file names: script, and init_script. Most of the other
> arguments are either optional or Windows specific (#6-11).
>
> I suspect you need to pass JUST main.py or Maiui.py (based on casing)
> -- which ever is really the file you'd invoke to start the program running.
> I'd hope the freeze system then scans (recursively) that file to find
> anything imported, and include those in the final product.
>
I tried passing just main.py or one of the others that might be a starting
point but just got ’NoneType has no len()
I was hoping to use someone else’s code to turn Latex equations into Speech.
Maybe easier to just narrated each equation to create an audio file.
Thanks for your suggestions Dennis. This was the first time I saw the
possibility of creating a python executable.
Then I searched for ‘python executable’ and found auto-py-to-exe and
pyinstaller which I must/might explore later. First tries ran into PyQt4 to
PyQt5 conversions. Good start at
https://towardsdatascience.com/how-to-easily-convert-a-python-script-to-an-executable-file-exe-4966e253c7e9
I might wait for the original author to respond to an issue I posted on GitHub.
Thanks again. David
> --
> Wulfraed Dennis Lee Bieber AF6VN
> wlfr...@ix.netcom.comhttp://wlfraed.microdiversity.freeddns.org/
>
...
> From: "Peter J. Holzer"
> Subject: Re: Problem using cx_Freeze
> Date: August 17, 2022 at 3:17:27 PM MDT
> To: python-list@python.org
>
> On 2022-08-17 12:09:14 -0600, David at Booomer wrote:
>>Executable(
>>
>> "prjui.py","Maiui.py","about.py","dict.py","geometry.py","getEquation.py",
>>
>> "gtrail.py","main.py","matchingstring.py","producelatex.py","readfile.py",
>>"separete.py","speak.py",
>>)
> [...]
>> I am/was worried about the trailing ‘,' after ',"speak.py”,’ <- but
>> deleting it or moving it after the ] didn’t help.
>
> This has nothing to do with your problem but:
>
> Python allows a trailing comma in any comma-separated list of values. It
> will just be ignored.
>
> This is really common in modern programming languages (read: programmi
Re: Problem using cx_Freeze
On 2022-08-17 12:09:14 -0600, David at Booomer wrote: > Executable( > > "prjui.py","Maiui.py","about.py","dict.py","geometry.py","getEquation.py", > > "gtrail.py","main.py","matchingstring.py","producelatex.py","readfile.py", > "separete.py","speak.py", > ) [...] > I am/was worried about the trailing ‘,' after ',"speak.py”,’ <- but > deleting it or moving it after the ] didn’t help. This has nothing to do with your problem but: Python allows a trailing comma in any comma-separated list of values. It will just be ignored. This is really common in modern programming languages (read: programming languages younger than 30 years or so), because it makes it much more convenient to extend/shorten/reorder a list. Otherwise you alway have to remember add or remove a comma in the right place. (Some people (especially SQL programmers for some reason) resorted to put the comma at the start of each line to get around this, which is really ugly.) hp -- _ | Peter J. Holzer| Story must make more sense than reality. |_|_) || | | | h...@hjp.at |-- Charles Stross, "Creative writing __/ | http://www.hjp.at/ | challenge!" signature.asc Description: PGP signature -- https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Problem using cx_Freeze
On Wed, 17 Aug 2022 12:09:14 -0600, David at Booomer
declaimed the following:
>executables=[
>Executable(
>
> "prjui.py","Maiui.py","about.py","dict.py","geometry.py","getEquation.py",
>
> "gtrail.py","main.py","matchingstring.py","producelatex.py","readfile.py",
>"separete.py","speak.py",
>)
>]
>)
>
You are defining a list "executables" with only ONE member... (and is
that really how you spelled "separate").
>Searching for ‘__init__(' in the 13 *.py files returned five lines in two
>files (algorithm.py and prjui.py). As mentioned searching for this error only
>produced mention of adding self which is in these lines already. Previously I
>had search for __init__() which returned no lines due to the closing ).
>
You are still searching the wrong place... The __init__() that is
complaining is the one in cx_Freeze.Executable().
>I had visited the page you provided
>(https://cx-freeze.readthedocs.io/en/latest/setup_script.html#cx-freeze-executable)
> but didn’t noticed the 11 plus self as 12 arguments.
Really? Please count (reformatted from cut):
"""
argument name description
#1
script the name of the file containing
the script
which is to be frozen
#2
init_script the name of the initialization
script that will
be executed before the actual script is executed; this script is used to
set up the environment for the executable; if a name is given without an
absolute path the names of files in the initscripts subdirectory of the
cx_Freeze package is searched
#3
basethe name of the base
executable; if a name is
given without an absolute path the names of files in the bases subdirectory
of the cx_Freeze package is searched
#4
target_name the name of the target executable; the
default
value is the name of the script; the extension is optional (automatically
added on Windows); support for names with version; if specified a pathname,
raise an error.
#5
iconname of icon which should be
included in the
executable itself on Windows or placed in the target directory for other
platforms (ignored in Microsoft Store Python app)
#6
manifestname of manifest which should
be included in
the executable itself (Windows only - ignored by Python app from Microsoft
Store)
#7
uac-admin creates a manifest for an
application that will
request elevation (Windows only - ignored by Python app from Microsoft
Store)
#8
shortcut_name the name to give a shortcut for the
executable
when included in an MSI package (Windows only).
#9
shortcut_dirthe directory in which to place
the
shortcut when being installed by an MSI package; see the MSI Shortcut table
documentation for more information on what values can be placed here
(Windows only).
#10
copyright the copyright value to include
in the version
resource associated with executable (Windows only).
#11
trademarks the trademarks value to include
in the version
resource associated with the executable (Windows only).
"""
You are passing 13 .py file names. There are only two arguments that
really want file names: script, and init_script. Most of the other
arguments are either optional or Windows specific (#6-11).
I suspect you need to pass JUST main.py or Maiui.py (based on casing)
-- which ever is really the file you'd invoke to start the program running.
I'd hope the freeze system then scans (recursively) that file to find
anything imported, and include those in the final product.
--
Wulfraed Dennis Lee Bieber AF6VN
wlfr...@ix.netcom.comhttp://wlfraed.microdiversity.freeddns.org/
--
https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Problem using cx_Freeze
Hi Dennis
Thank you for your reply. I’m am trying to get LaTex-to-Speech
(https://github.com/SGanesh19/LaTeX-to-Speech) to run as an accessibility aid,
converting equations into speech. I haven’t used cx_Freeze before so stumbling
somewhat.
The error returned is
File
"/Users/duser/Documents/Win_ShareFolder/LaTeX-to-Speech-master/setup.py", line
9, in
Executable(
TypeError: __init__() takes from 2 to 12 positional arguments but 14 were given
The setup.py file is currently
import cx_Freeze
# from cx_Freeze import *
from cx_Freeze import setup, Executable
setup(
name="Latex2Speech",
options = {'build_exe':{'packages':['gtts','pyglet','PyQt4']}},
executables=[
Executable(
"prjui.py","Maiui.py","about.py","dict.py","geometry.py","getEquation.py",
"gtrail.py","main.py","matchingstring.py","producelatex.py","readfile.py",
"separete.py","speak.py",
)
]
)
I am/was worried about the trailing ‘,' after ',"speak.py”,’ <- but deleting it
or moving it after the ] didn’t help. Adding base = None also didn’t help.
Searching for ‘__init__(' in the 13 *.py files returned five lines in two files
(algorithm.py and prjui.py). As mentioned searching for this error only
produced mention of adding self which is in these lines already. Previously I
had search for __init__() which returned no lines due to the closing ).
I had visited the page you provided
(https://cx-freeze.readthedocs.io/en/latest/setup_script.html#cx-freeze-executable)
but didn’t noticed the 11 plus self as 12 arguments.
Thanks again for any suggestions.
David
> From: Dennis Lee Bieber
> Subject: Re: Problem using cx_Freeze
> Date: August 15, 2022 at 8:18:54 PM MDT
> To: python-list@python.org
>
>
> On Mon, 15 Aug 2022 18:00:48 -0600, David at Booomer
> declaimed the following:
>
>
>> However I now get an error
>>
>> init() takes from 2 to 12 positional arguments but 14 were given
>>
>> I found a couple instances of init in two .py files that were part of the
>> whole.
>>
>> One .py file
>> def __init__(self):
>>
>
> Please cut the TEXT of the console where the errors are displayed
> -- don't paraphrase!
>
> init() is NOT the same as __init__()
>
> WHAT "One .py file"? This is a meaningless bit of information.
>
> The most likely __init__() involved is the one where
> cx_Freeze.Executable is instantiated.
> https://cx-freeze.readthedocs.io/en/latest/setup_script.html#cx-freeze-executable
> shows 11 parameters (and "self" would make the 12th).
>
> --
> Wulfraed Dennis Lee Bieber AF6VN
> wlfr...@ix.netcom.comhttp://wlfraed.microdiversity.freeddns.org/
--
https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Problem using cx_Freeze
On Mon, 15 Aug 2022 18:00:48 -0600, David at Booomer declaimed the following: >However I now get an error > >init() takes from 2 to 12 positional arguments but 14 were given > >I found a couple instances of init in two .py files that were part of the >whole. > >One .py file >def __init__(self): > Please cut the TEXT of the console where the errors are displayed -- don't paraphrase! init() is NOT the same as __init__() WHAT "One .py file"? This is a meaningless bit of information. The most likely __init__() involved is the one where cx_Freeze.Executable is instantiated. https://cx-freeze.readthedocs.io/en/latest/setup_script.html#cx-freeze-executable shows 11 parameters (and "self" would make the 12th). -- Wulfraed Dennis Lee Bieber AF6VN wlfr...@ix.netcom.comhttp://wlfraed.microdiversity.freeddns.org/ -- https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Problem using cx_Freeze
On Mon, 15 Aug 2022 10:30:41 -0600, David at Booomer declaimed the following: >I’m trying to use cx_Freeze (https://pypi.org/project/cx-Freeze/) in a python >app but running into an error message: > >AttributeError: module 'cx_Freeze' has no attribute ‘BdistDMG’ What operating system? BdistDMG appears to be a Macintosh OS module -- something to do with disk images https://cx-freeze.readthedocs.io/en/latest/setup_script.html """ On Windows, you can build a simple installer containing all the files cx_Freeze includes for your application, by running the setup script as: python setup.py bdist_msi On Mac OS X, you can use bdist_dmg to build a Mac disk image. """ Note the command syntax and last line... -- Wulfraed Dennis Lee Bieber AF6VN wlfr...@ix.netcom.comhttp://wlfraed.microdiversity.freeddns.org/ -- https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Problem using cx_Freeze
Hi Jim Thanks for your suggestions. I changed from cx_Freeze import * to from cx_Freeze import setup, Executable And no longer get the BdistDMG error — I had found the page https://cx-freeze.readthedocs.io/en/latest/setup_script.html But hadn’t tried the setup, Executable option in the from statement — However I now get an error init() takes from 2 to 12 positional arguments but 14 were given I found a couple instances of init in two .py files that were part of the whole. One .py file def __init__(self): Another .py file class Aboutwindow(QtGui.QMainWindow, Ui_Aboutwindow): def __init__(self,parent=None): QtGui.QMainWindow.__init__(self,parent) — class Main(QtGui.QMainWindow): def __init__(self): QtGui.QMainWindow.__init__(self) When searching for this error the answers found suggested including self in the init parameter list but the code already has self. Thanks, David > On Aug 15, 2022, at 5:51 PM, Jim Schwartz wrote: > > This link covers how to use BDist_dmg. > > https://cx-freeze.readthedocs.io/en/latest/setup_script.html > > Sent from my iPhone > >> On Aug 15, 2022, at 12:11 PM, David at Booomer wrote: >> >> I’m trying to use cx_Freeze (https://pypi.org/project/cx-Freeze/) in a >> python app but running into an error message: >> >> AttributeError: module 'cx_Freeze' has no attribute ‘BdistDMG’ >> >> I’m using Anaconda and error appears with the import command: from cx_Freeze >> import * >> >> From the terminal the command: python setup.py build gives much the same >> error. >> >> I believe there is an issue specifying the output file name but don’t know >> how to resolve it. >> >> Any suggestions, thanks. David >> >> >> -- >> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list -- https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Problem using cx_Freeze
This link covers how to use BDist_dmg. https://cx-freeze.readthedocs.io/en/latest/setup_script.html Sent from my iPhone > On Aug 15, 2022, at 12:11 PM, David at Booomer wrote: > > I’m trying to use cx_Freeze (https://pypi.org/project/cx-Freeze/) in a > python app but running into an error message: > > AttributeError: module 'cx_Freeze' has no attribute ‘BdistDMG’ > > I’m using Anaconda and error appears with the import command: from cx_Freeze > import * > > From the terminal the command: python setup.py build gives much the same > error. > > I believe there is an issue specifying the output file name but don’t know > how to resolve it. > > Any suggestions, thanks. David > > > -- > https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list -- https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
RE: Problem using cx_Freeze
I see a class called BdistDMG in the module called bdist_mac.py. Did you try importing that from cx_freeze? -Original Message- From: Python-list On Behalf Of David at Booomer Sent: Monday, August 15, 2022 11:31 AM To: python-list@python.org Subject: Problem using cx_Freeze I’m trying to use cx_Freeze (https://pypi.org/project/cx-Freeze/) in a python app but running into an error message: AttributeError: module 'cx_Freeze' has no attribute ‘BdistDMG’ I’m using Anaconda and error appears with the import command: from cx_Freeze import * From the terminal the command: python setup.py build gives much the same error. I believe there is an issue specifying the output file name but don’t know how to resolve it. Any suggestions, thanks. David -- https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list -- https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
