Re: Who uses IDLE -- please answer if you ever do, know, or teach
On 08/07/2015 04:29 AM, tjohnson wrote: On 8/6/2015 7:31 PM, Terry Reedy wrote: What 1 or 2 features would you most like to see? Practically, I'd say a line number margin and right edge indicator. Theoretically, a tabbed editor and dockable interpreter pane. YES!!! and yes to the above. Some built-in support for style/syntax checking i.e. PEP8, pylint would be very nice (in my mind) for helping new users understand where some of the problems are in their code. Maybe not enabled by default, but available in the options for those who want it. -- Shiny! Let's be bad guys. Reach me @ memilanuk (at) gmail dot com -- https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Who uses IDLE -- please answer if you ever do, know, or teach
On 8/6/2015 7:31 PM, Terry Reedy wrote: On 8/6/2015 11:35 AM, Timothy Johnson wrote: problems because it works well for that. Most of the time I use PyDev and Notepad++ to edit Python code, but if more features were added to Idle I would consider using it more. What 1 or 2 features would you most like to see? Practically, I'd say a line number margin and right edge indicator. Theoretically, a tabbed editor and dockable interpreter pane. Thanks for asking. -- https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Who uses IDLE -- please answer if you ever do, know, or teach
On 8/7/2015 9:10 PM, Terry Reedy wrote: On 8/7/2015 7:29 AM, tjohnson wrote: On 8/6/2015 7:31 PM, Terry Reedy wrote: On 8/6/2015 11:35 AM, Timothy Johnson wrote: problems because it works well for that. Most of the time I use PyDev and Notepad++ to edit Python code, but if more features were added to Idle I would consider using it more. What 1 or 2 features would you most like to see? Practically, I'd say a line number margin Patch is mostly done but I need to review (sooner than later). Great. and right edge indicator. Do you mean at column 80 or something? Yes, exactly. Theoretically, a tabbed editor *Many* people want this. I think this should be the highest priority new big feature. I agree. and dockable interpreter pane. Please explain. Currently the interpreter is shown in a separate floating window. If it was dockable, it could also be placed in the same window as the text editor but separated by a splitter. Examples: wxPython AUI panes, Firefox bookmarks pane -- https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Who uses IDLE -- please answer if you ever do, know, or teach
random...@fastmail.us wrote: On Sat, Aug 8, 2015, at 13:59, Laurent Pointal wrote: Level? Graduate (post-Bac in france) Yours or your students? My students. 1. Are you grade school (1=12)? (sorry, I dont know correspondance in france) Grade 12 refers to 17-18 year old students, each grade is one year. Ok, students are at grade 12 (some at 13 after a failure in another cursus). undergraduate (Freshman-Senior)? post-graduate (from whatever)? I'm senior developer. Freshman, Sophomore, Junior, and Senior conventionally refer to each of the years of a conventional four-year bachelor's degree at a university (Also to grades 9-12 in high school, but in context that seems not to be what's meant here). Oups, students are mainly beginners (but some algorithmic is being introduced in their previous pre-bachelor schools years, so we may see more experienced students). The choice of IDLE is related to its standard installation with Python (at least on Windows, and easily available on Linux / MacOSX). But, would appreciate some enhancements as seen in discussions (ex. typical example is line numbering). A+ Laurent. -- https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Who uses IDLE -- please answer if you ever do, know, or teach
Terry Reedy wrote: There have been discussions, such as today on Idle-sig , about who uses Idle and who we should design it for. If you use Idle in any way, or know of or teach classes using Idle, please answer as many of the questions below as you are willing, and as are appropriate I think they take a look at idlex http://idlex.sourceforge.net/ Private answers are welcome. They will be deleted as soon as they are tallied (without names). I realized that this list is a biased sample of the universe of people who have studied Python at least, say, a month. But biased data should be better than my current vague impressions. 0. Classes where Idle is used: Where? IUT Orsay, Mesures Physiques, for teaching Python as programming language. Level? Graduate (post-Bac in france) Idle users: 1. Are you grade school (1=12)? (sorry, I dont know correspondance in france) undergraduate (Freshman-Senior)? post-graduate (from whatever)? I'm senior developer. 2. Are you beginner (1st class, maybe 2nd depending on intensity of first)? post-beginner? Post-beginner. 3. With respect to programming, are you amateur (unpaid) professional (paid for programming) Pro. -- https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Who uses IDLE -- please answer if you ever do, know, or teach
On Sat, Aug 8, 2015, at 13:59, Laurent Pointal wrote: Level? Graduate (post-Bac in france) Yours or your students? 1. Are you grade school (1=12)? (sorry, I dont know correspondance in france) Grade 12 refers to 17-18 year old students, each grade is one year. undergraduate (Freshman-Senior)? post-graduate (from whatever)? I'm senior developer. Freshman, Sophomore, Junior, and Senior conventionally refer to each of the years of a conventional four-year bachelor's degree at a university (Also to grades 9-12 in high school, but in context that seems not to be what's meant here). -- https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Who uses IDLE -- please answer if you ever do, know, or teach
On 08/06/2015 03:21 AM, Rustom Mody wrote:
On Thursday, August 6, 2015 at 6:36:56 AM UTC+5:30, Terry Reedy wrote:
There have been discussions, such as today on Idle-sig , about who uses
Idle and who we should design it for. If you use Idle in any way, or
know of or teach classes using Idle, please answer as many of the
questions below as you are willing, and as are appropriate
Private answers are welcome. They will be deleted as soon as they are
tallied (without names).
I realized that this list is a biased sample of the universe of people
who have studied Python at least, say, a month. But biased data should
be better than my current vague impressions.
0. Classes where Idle is used:
Where?
Level?
Idle users:
1. Are you
grade school (1=12)?
undergraduate (Freshman-Senior)?
post-graduate (from whatever)?
2. Are you
beginner (1st class, maybe 2nd depending on intensity of first)?
post-beginner?
3. With respect to programming, are you
amateur (unpaid)
professional (paid for programming)
--
Terry Jan Reedy, Idle maintainer
I used idle to teach a 2nd year engineering course last sem
It was a more pleasant experience than I expected
One feature that would help teachers:
It would be nice to (have setting to) auto-save the interaction window
[Yeah I tried to see if I could do it by hand but could not find where]
Useful for giving as handouts of the class
So students rest easy and dont need to take 'literal' notes of the session
I will now be teaching more advanced students and switching back to emacs
-- python, C, and others -- so really no option to emacs.
Not ideal at all but nothing else remotely comparable
I've been using Idle full time to simultaneously manage my financial
holdings, develop the management system and manually fix errors. While
the ultimate goal is a push-button system, I have not reached that stage
and am compelled to work trial-and-error style. For this way of working
I found Idle well-suited, since the majority of jobs I do are hacks and
quick fixes, not production runs running reliably.
I recently came up with a data transformation framework that greatly
expedites interactive development. It is based on transformer objects
that wrap a transformation function. The base class Transformer handles
the flow of the data in a manner that allows linking the transformer
modules together in chains. With a toolbox of often used standards, a
great variety of transformation tasks can be accomplished by simply
lining up a bunch of toolbox transformers in chains. Bridging a gap now
and then is a relatively simple matter of writing a transformation
function that converts the output format upstream of the gap to the
required input format downstream of the gap.
The system works very well. It saves me a lot of time. I am currently
writing a manual with the intention to upload it for comment and also to
upload the system, if the comments are not too discouraging. If I may
show a few examples below . . .
Frederic (moderately knowledgeable non-professional)
--
import TYX
FR = TYX.File_Reader ()
CSVP = TYX.CSV_Parser ()
TAB = TYX.Tabulator ()
print TAB (CSVP (FR ('Downloads/xyz.csv'))) # Calls nest
---
Date,Open,Close,High,Low,Volume
07/18/2014,34.36,34.25,34.36,34.25,485
07/17/2014,34.55,34.50,34.55,34.47,2,415
07/16/2014,34.65,34.63,34.68,34.52,83,477
---
CSVP.get () # display all parameters
CSV_Parser
dialect None
delimiter '\t'
quote ''
has_headerFalse
strip_fields True
headers []
CSVP.set (delimiter = ',')
TAB.set (table_format = 'pipe')
print TAB (CSVP ()) # Transformers retain their input
|:---|:--|:--|:--|:--|:---|
| Date | Open | Close | High | Low | Volume |
| 07/18/2014 | 34.36 | 34.25 | 34.36 | 34.25 | 485|
| 07/17/2014 | 34.55 | 34.50 | 34.55 | 34.47 | 2,415 |
| 07/16/2014 | 34.65 | 34.63 | 34.68 | 34.52 | 83,477 |
class formatter (TYX.Transformer):
def __init__ (self):
TYX.Transformer.__init__ (self, symbol = None) # declare
parameter
def transform (self, records):
symbol = self.get ('symbol')
if symbol:
out = []
for d, o, c, h, l, v in records [1:]: # Clip headers
month, day, year = d.split ('/')
d = '%s-%s-%s' % (year, month, day)
v = v.replace (',', '')
out.append ((d, symbol, o, c, h, l, v))
return out
fo = formatter ()
fo.set (symbol = 'XYZ')
TAB.set (float_format = 'f')
print TAB (fo (CSVP())) # Transformers also retain their output
|:---|:|--:|--:|--:|--:|--:|
| 2014-07-18 | XYZ | 34.36
Re: Who uses IDLE -- please answer if you ever do, know, or teach
On 8/5/2015 9:06 PM, Terry Reedy wrote: There have been discussions, such as today on Idle-sig , about who uses Idle and who we should design it for. If you use Idle in any way, or know of or teach classes using Idle, please answer as many of the questions below as you are willing, and as are appropriate Private answers are welcome. They will be deleted as soon as they are tallied (without names). I realized that this list is a biased sample of the universe of people who have studied Python at least, say, a month. But biased data should be better than my current vague impressions. 0. Classes where Idle is used: Where? Level? N/A Idle users: 1. Are you grade school (1=12)? undergraduate (Freshman-Senior)? post-graduate (from whatever)? New freshman (starting college this fall) 2. Are you beginner (1st class, maybe 2nd depending on intensity of first)? post-beginner? Post-beginner (I'd call myself intermediate, but not expert) 3. With respect to programming, are you amateur (unpaid) professional (paid for programming) Amateur and programming just for convenience and fun (like Sibylle) PS: I actually don't use Idle very often, except to solve Project Euler problems because it works well for that. Most of the time I use PyDev and Notepad++ to edit Python code, but if more features were added to Idle I would consider using it more. -- https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Who uses IDLE -- please answer if you ever do, know, or teach
On 8/6/2015 7:31 PM, Terry Reedy wrote: On 8/6/2015 11:35 AM, Timothy Johnson wrote: problems because it works well for that. Most of the time I use PyDev and Notepad++ to edit Python code, but if more features were added to Idle I would consider using it more. What 1 or 2 features would you most like to see? Practically, I'd say a line number margin and right edge indicator. Theoretically, a tabbed editor and dockable interpreter pane. Thanks for asking. -- https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Who uses IDLE -- please answer if you ever do, know, or teach
On 8/7/2015 7:29 AM, tjohnson wrote: On 8/6/2015 7:31 PM, Terry Reedy wrote: On 8/6/2015 11:35 AM, Timothy Johnson wrote: problems because it works well for that. Most of the time I use PyDev and Notepad++ to edit Python code, but if more features were added to Idle I would consider using it more. What 1 or 2 features would you most like to see? Practically, I'd say a line number margin Patch is mostly done but I need to review (sooner than later). and right edge indicator. Do you mean at column 80 or something? Theoretically, a tabbed editor *Many* people want this. I think this should be the highest priority new big feature. and dockable interpreter pane. Please explain. -- Terry Jan Reedy -- https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Who uses IDLE -- please answer if you ever do, know, or teach
On 8/6/2015 9:14 PM, Dennis Lee Bieber wrote: On Wed, 5 Aug 2015 21:06:31 -0400, Terry Reedy tjre...@udel.edu declaimed the following: There have been discussions, such as today on Idle-sig , about who uses Idle and who we should design it for. If you use Idle in any way, or know of or teach classes using Idle, please answer as many of the questions below as you are willing, and as are appropriate If you only take responses from people who already use Idle, you may be selecting against some of the more critical responses. The main issue is who, other than highschool or college students, use it. With 35 years of experience, you are not the target audience. I am unusual in not having switched. In you situation, I well might have. What's wrong with Idle' or 'Why don't you use Idle' or 'How can Idle be improved' would be another survey. I am not asking that too much because there are already over a 120 issues to work on. (But note, Idle is 60 xyz.py modules, which is 2 issues per module, whereas there are more than that for the stdlib as a whole. I am aware that issues per 1000 lines would be a better comparison.) I find Idle somewhat clunky looking, We are going to add the better looking ttk widgets as an option, but that will have least effect on Windows. with some GUI behaviors that just don't feel natural to me. We are reviewing these within the confines of what tk can do on each platform. Thank you for your response. -- Terry Jan Reedy -- https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Who uses IDLE -- please answer if you ever do, know, or teach
On 8/7/2015 9:10 PM, Terry Reedy wrote: On 8/7/2015 7:29 AM, tjohnson wrote: On 8/6/2015 7:31 PM, Terry Reedy wrote: On 8/6/2015 11:35 AM, Timothy Johnson wrote: problems because it works well for that. Most of the time I use PyDev and Notepad++ to edit Python code, but if more features were added to Idle I would consider using it more. What 1 or 2 features would you most like to see? Practically, I'd say a line number margin Patch is mostly done but I need to review (sooner than later). Great. and right edge indicator. Do you mean at column 80 or something? Yes, exactly. Theoretically, a tabbed editor *Many* people want this. I think this should be the highest priority new big feature. I agree. and dockable interpreter pane. Please explain. Currently the interpreter is shown in a separate floating window. If it was dockable, it could also be placed in the same window as the text editor but separated by a splitter. Examples: wxPython AUI panes, Firefox bookmarks pane -- https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Who uses IDLE -- please answer if you ever do, know, or teach
tjohnson tandrewjohn...@outlook.com writes: Currently the interpreter is shown in a separate floating window. If it was dockable, it could also be placed in the same window as the text editor but separated by a splitter. Dockable would be nice but the split window is ok with me. What I wish is that Control-N in the interpreter window (or maybe some newly assigned hotkey) would launch a Python editing window instead of a text window. Better still, have it already editing a temp file so that I can immediately type code and hit F5 and run it, without the Save as dance. Also the save on close dialog buttons should say save and don't save instead of yes and no. Lots of programs have dialogs like that and the senses keep differing so it's easy to misread the prompt. -- https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Who uses IDLE -- please answer if you ever do, know, or teach
Terry Reedy tjre...@udel.edu writes: There have been discussions, such as today on Idle-sig , about who uses Idle and who we should design it for. If you use Idle in any way, or know of or teach classes using Idle, please answer as many of the questions below as you are willing, and as are appropriate Running Python scripts in Windows console that may produce Unicode output is a worth-mentioning use-case [1] (as you might know) i.e., if you run: T:\ py print_unicode.py and get the error: UnicodeEncodeError: 'charmap' codec can't encode character '...' then a workaround that works out of the box is to run: T:\ py -m idlelib -r print_unicode.py that can display Unicode (BMP) output in IDLE. [1] http://stackoverflow.com/questions/28521944/python3-print-unicode-to-windows-xp-console-encode-cp437 -- https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Who uses IDLE -- please answer if you ever do, know, or teach
On 08/05/2015 06:06 PM, Terry Reedy wrote: [snip] 0. Classes where Idle is used: Where? Level? None Idle users: 1. Are you grade school (1=12)? undergraduate (Freshman-Senior)? post-graduate (from whatever)? Some college, but didn't complete. Never had any CS or programming courses. 2. Are you beginner (1st class, maybe 2nd depending on intensity of first)? post-beginner? post-beginner (and self-taught) 3. With respect to programming, are you amateur (unpaid) professional (paid for programming) amateur My situation: Amateur/hobbyist programmer. (Retired from electronics industries.) My programming needs are very modest -- mostly simple utilities for my own use. In the past used C extensively, C++ some. But after I found Python I haven't looked back. Programming environment: Linux Mint (hate Windows!). Using simple editor (usually gedit) and a terminal window, but I usually have Idle running (minimized) to be able to quickly check syntax, run help(...), etc. I rarely use it for actual programming. One minor complaint about Idle: In the interactive mode the auto-indent uses a tab character which the display expands to 8-character columns. This large indent is annoying. The editor mode can be set for smaller indents but the interactive mode can't -- at least I haven't found how if it is possible. -=- Larry -=- -- https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Who uses IDLE -- please answer if you ever do, know, or teach
On Sat, Aug 8, 2015 at 1:45 PM, Akira Li 4kir4...@gmail.com wrote: then a workaround that works out of the box is to run: T:\ py -m idlelib -r print_unicode.py that can display Unicode (BMP) output in IDLE. But sadly, *only* the BMP. That's enough for most modern languages, but it's by no means all of Unicode. I'm told there are plans in the works for improving Tcl and Tk, which tkinter and thus Idle could then take advantage of, but for the time being, we're stuck on sixteen bit characters in Idle. :( ChrisA -- https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Who uses IDLE -- please answer if you ever do, know, or teach
0. Classes where Idle is used: Where? Level? Mostly on windows, can't remember ever using Idle on a linux system before. Idle users: 1. Are you grade school (1=12)? undergraduate (Freshman-Senior)? post-graduate (from whatever)? Post-graduate 2. Are you beginner (1st class, maybe 2nd depending on intensity of first)? post-beginner? Beginner 3. With respect to programming, are you amateur (unpaid) professional (paid for programming) Amateur, Occasionally use python for paid programming but use pycharm, eclipse with PyDev, Or sublime text in those cases mostly. Never Idle. -- Terry Jan Reedy, Idle maintainer -- https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list -- https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Who uses IDLE -- please answer if you ever do, know, or teach
On 8/6/2015 11:35 AM, Timothy Johnson wrote: problems because it works well for that. Most of the time I use PyDev and Notepad++ to edit Python code, but if more features were added to Idle I would consider using it more. What 1 or 2 features would you most like to see? -- Terry Jan Reedy -- https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Who uses IDLE -- please answer if you ever do, know, or teach
On 8/5/2015 9:21 PM, Rustom Mody wrote: I used idle to teach a 2nd year engineering course last sem It was a more pleasant experience than I expected One feature that would help teachers: It would be nice to (have setting to) auto-save the interaction window [Yeah I tried to see if I could do it by hand but could not find where] Useful for giving as handouts of the class So students rest easy and dont need to take 'literal' notes of the session To prevent this idea from getting lost, I added A follow-on issue would be to have an option to prompt to save (as with editor windows) or autosave when closing the shell. A default path might be .idlerc/shellsave.txt. to https://bugs.python.org/issue21937 and a reference in my personal list. -- Terry Jan Reedy -- https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Who uses IDLE -- please answer if you ever do, know, or teach
On 8/5/2015 9:17 PM, Ben Finney wrote: Terry Reedy tjre...@udel.edu writes: Private answers are welcome. They will be deleted as soon as they are tallied (without names). Are you also expecting questionnaire answers in this forum? Either or both. I suspect it will become a free-ranging discussion; This has not happened so far. I am not commenting on direct answers to the questions, only ideas for new features. hopefully you're prepared to pick through and collect the responses if so. So far, they have been even more varies than I expected. -- Terry Jan Reedy -- https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Who uses IDLE -- please answer if you ever do, know, or teach
Added: right now most children I know who want to program want to write games that run on their cell phones and tablets. So Idle integration with kivy would be very nice, if Idle developers are looking for new directions. Laura -- https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Who uses IDLE -- please answer if you ever do, know, or teach
Am 06.08.2015 um 03:06 schrieb Terry Reedy: There have been discussions, such as today on Idle-sig , about who uses Idle and who we should design it for. If you use Idle in any way, or know of or teach classes using Idle, please answer as many of the questions below as you are willing, and as are appropriate I'm using Idle mostly on Windows where the Python command-line window or the Windows command window aren't very usable (encoding problems, copying from and to the window inconvenient and so on). For programs with more than two or three modules the Wing IDE is still nicer. Idle users: 1. Are you grade school (1=12)? undergraduate (Freshman-Senior)? post-graduate (from whatever)? post-graduate 2. Are you beginner (1st class, maybe 2nd depending on intensity of first)? post-beginner? post-beginner 3. With respect to programming, are you amateur (unpaid) professional (paid for programming) amateur and programming just for my own convenience and fun. -- https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Who uses IDLE -- please answer if you ever do, know, or teach
On Wed, 5 Aug 2015 21:06:31 -0400, Terry Reedy tjre...@udel.edu wrote: There have been discussions, such as today on Idle-sig , about who uses Idle and who we should design it for. If you use Idle in any way, or know of or teach classes using Idle, please answer as many of the questions below as you are willing, and as are appropriate Private answers are welcome. They will be deleted as soon as they are tallied (without names). I realized that this list is a biased sample of the universe of people who have studied Python at least, say, a month. But biased data should be better than my current vague impressions. 0. Classes where Idle is used: Where? Level? Idle users: 1. Are you post-graduate (from whatever)? 2. Are you beginner (1st class, maybe 2nd depending on intensity of first)? if you mean with Python 3. With respect to programming, are you amateur (unpaid) -- Steve Hayes from Tshwane, South Africa Web: http://www.khanya.org.za/stevesig.htm Blog: http://khanya.wordpress.com E-mail - see web page, or parse: shayes at dunelm full stop org full stop uk -- https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Who uses IDLE -- please answer if you ever do, know, or teach
On 06/08/2015 02:06, Terry Reedy wrote: 0. Classes where Idle is used: Where? Level? N/A Idle users: 1. Are you grade school (1=12)? undergraduate (Freshman-Senior)? post-graduate (from whatever)? post-graduate 2. Are you beginner (1st class, maybe 2nd depending on intensity of first)? post-beginner? post-beginner 3. With respect to programming, are you amateur (unpaid) professional (paid for programming) All Python work as an amateur. Former professional who's no longer working due to poor health. -- My fellow Pythonistas, ask not what our language can do for you, ask what you can do for our language. Mark Lawrence -- https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Who uses IDLE -- please answer if you ever do, know, or teach
On 8/5/2015 9:06 PM, Terry Reedy wrote: There have been discussions, such as today on Idle-sig , about who uses Idle and who we should design it for. If you use Idle in any way, or know of or teach classes using Idle, please answer as many of the questions below as you are willing, and as are appropriate Private answers are welcome. They will be deleted as soon as they are tallied (without names). I realized that this list is a biased sample of the universe of people who have studied Python at least, say, a month. But biased data should be better than my current vague impressions. 0. Classes where Idle is used: Where? Level? N/A Idle users: 1. Are you grade school (1=12)? undergraduate (Freshman-Senior)? post-graduate (from whatever)? New freshman (starting college this fall) 2. Are you beginner (1st class, maybe 2nd depending on intensity of first)? post-beginner? Post-beginner (I'd call myself intermediate, but not expert) 3. With respect to programming, are you amateur (unpaid) professional (paid for programming) Amateur and programming just for convenience and fun (like Sibylle) PS: I actually don't use Idle very often, except to solve Project Euler problems because it works well for that. Most of the time I use PyDev and Notepad++ to edit Python code, but if more features were added to Idle I would consider using it more. -- https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Who uses IDLE -- please answer if you ever do, know, or teach
Terry Reedy tjre...@udel.edu writes: There have been discussions, such as today on Idle-sig , about who uses Idle and who we should design it for. I use it sometimes. I mostly use Emacs with Python-mode but find Idle is nice for quickly experimenting with something or probing an API. I know there are fancier IDE's out there but I'm mostly an Emacs user. 0. Classes where Idle is used: N/A 1. Are you grade school (1=12)? Working programmer. 2. Are you post-beginner? Yes 3. With respect to programming, are you amateur (unpaid) professional (paid for programming) Professional. -- https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Who uses IDLE -- please answer if you ever do, know, or teach
Paul Rubin no.email@nospam.invalid writes: I use it sometimes. I mostly use Emacs with Python-mode but find Idle is nice for quickly experimenting with something or probing an API. Added: I sometimes used Idle in places where Emacs isn't available, e.g. client machines running Windows. It's nice that Idle is there if the Python environment is there. -- https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Who uses IDLE -- please answer if you ever do, know, or teach
In a message of Wed, 05 Aug 2015 21:06:31 -0400, Terry Reedy writes: 0. Classes where Idle is used: Where -- my house or sometimes at the board game society Level -- beginners and there are 8 children right now. Idle users: 1. Are you I am post graduate, but the kids are all grade school. 2. Are you beginner (1st class, maybe 2nd depending on intensity of first)? post-beginner? I am post-beginner, the kids are all beginners. 3. With respect to programming, are you amateur (unpaid) professional (paid for programming) The teaching is unpaid. I get paid for other things. -- Terry Jan Reedy, Idle maintainer Laura -- https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Who uses IDLE -- please answer if you ever do, know, or teach
Greetings, 0. Classes where Idle is used: Where? At client site. Mostly big companies. Level? From beginner to advanced. Idle users: 1. Are you grade school (1=12)? undergraduate (Freshman-Senior)? post-graduate (from whatever)? post-graduate 2. Are you beginner (1st class, maybe 2nd depending on intensity of first)? post-beginner? post-beginner 3. With respect to programming, are you amateur (unpaid) professional (paid for programming) professional -- https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Who uses IDLE -- please answer if you ever do, know, or teach
Terry Reedy tjre...@udel.edu writes: Private answers are welcome. They will be deleted as soon as they are tallied (without names). Are you also expecting questionnaire answers in this forum? I suspect it will become a free-ranging discussion; hopefully you're prepared to pick through and collect the responses if so. -- \ “The Stones, I love the Stones; I can't believe they're still | `\ doing it after all these years. I watch them whenever I can: | _o__)Fred, Barney, ...” —Steven Wright | Ben Finney -- https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Who uses IDLE -- please answer if you ever do, know, or teach
On Thu, Aug 6, 2015 at 11:06 AM, Terry Reedy tjre...@udel.edu wrote: There have been discussions, such as today on Idle-sig , about who uses Idle and who we should design it for. If you use Idle in any way, or know of or teach classes using Idle, please answer as many of the questions below as you are willing, and as are appropriate When I'm talking to my students about interactive Python on Windows, I'll sometimes recommend Idle. It's not any sort of official thing, but when they're having issues (particularly if they're tinkering with a 'while' or 'for' loop, as Idle recalls those as coherent units instead of fetching up individual lines), I'll point them to it as another way to tackle a problem. Usually on Linux or Mac OS they're better able to manage with the console interpreter and readline, but Windows sucks so Idle has a bigger advantage (plus, a lot of Linux distro-supplied Pythons don't include Idle, whereas I can be fairly confident that a Windows Python will have it). 1. Are you grade school (1=12)? undergraduate (Freshman-Senior)? post-graduate (from whatever)? I'm a high school dropout; my students probably cover all three of those categories. 2. Are you beginner (1st class, maybe 2nd depending on intensity of first)? post-beginner? Usually Idle is mentioned only in the context of the very early explorations. After that, it's all use a text editor, and then run it, and students use whichever editors they like. Most don't ask about editor options. Possibly I'd recommend Idle's editor mode in some cases, but it's usually more convenient to have a single editor which also understands HTML and CSS, as this is a web programming course. 3. With respect to programming, are you amateur (unpaid) professional (paid for programming) Pro. A lot of my students are currently amateurs; a decent number are professional and moving around in skillset. (Do you count as a pro programmer if you're currently paid to work with Excel macros, and you're learning Python so you can do better? Line gets blurry.) If Idle didn't exist, it wouldn't kill what I'm doing, but it is a convenient option to have around. ChrisA -- https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Who uses IDLE -- please answer if you ever do, know, or teach
On Thursday, August 6, 2015 at 6:36:56 AM UTC+5:30, Terry Reedy wrote: There have been discussions, such as today on Idle-sig , about who uses Idle and who we should design it for. If you use Idle in any way, or know of or teach classes using Idle, please answer as many of the questions below as you are willing, and as are appropriate Private answers are welcome. They will be deleted as soon as they are tallied (without names). I realized that this list is a biased sample of the universe of people who have studied Python at least, say, a month. But biased data should be better than my current vague impressions. 0. Classes where Idle is used: Where? Level? Idle users: 1. Are you grade school (1=12)? undergraduate (Freshman-Senior)? post-graduate (from whatever)? 2. Are you beginner (1st class, maybe 2nd depending on intensity of first)? post-beginner? 3. With respect to programming, are you amateur (unpaid) professional (paid for programming) -- Terry Jan Reedy, Idle maintainer I used idle to teach a 2nd year engineering course last sem It was a more pleasant experience than I expected One feature that would help teachers: It would be nice to (have setting to) auto-save the interaction window [Yeah I tried to see if I could do it by hand but could not find where] Useful for giving as handouts of the class So students rest easy and dont need to take 'literal' notes of the session I will now be teaching more advanced students and switching back to emacs -- python, C, and others -- so really no option to emacs. Not ideal at all but nothing else remotely comparable -- https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
