Re: python.exe is not a valid win32 executable

[Laura Creighton]

In a message of Fri, 30 Oct 2015 03:36:36 +1100, Chris Angelico writes:
>I don't know what you mean by "natively", but I play a number of
>DirectX games on my Debian Linux. Give it a try! You might find that
>it all works perfectly.

Or, if you develop games, you might not

http://www.pcworld.com/article/2940470/hey-gamers-directx-11-is-coming-to-linux-thanks-to-codeweavers-and-wine.html

has us all crossing our fingers and waiting, waiting, anxiously waiting ...

Laura

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Re: python.exe is not a valid win32 executable

[Mark Lawrence]

On 29/10/2015 17:28, Tim Golden wrote:

On 29/10/2015 16:14, Steffen Herzfeldt wrote:

I just wanted to let you know that your program just doesn't work on
WinXP.
I guess you just think "Linux is better anyway" to which i agree until
it comes to games requiring directx, but that doesn't change the fact
that the installer was labeled as working on win32 systems.


Others have replied that the installer has a fix for the next release
which will highlight this sooner. I would point out that we have
gradually dropped support for *several* win32-based systems over the
last few years, more or less following Microsoft's own deprecation
regime. Win9x was dropped in 2.6; 2000 was dropped in 3.3.



Specifically from 
https://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0011/#microsoft-windows, the first 
three paragraphs.



 Microsoft has established a policy called product support lifecycle 
[1] . Each product's lifecycle has a mainstream support phase, where the 
product is generally commercially available, and an extended support 
phase, where paid support is still available, and certain bug fixes are 
released (in particular security fixes).


CPython's Windows support now follows this lifecycle. A new feature 
release X.Y.0 will support all Windows releases whose extended support 
phase is not yet expired. Subsequent bug fix releases will support the 
same Windows releases as the original feature release (even if the 
extended support phase has ended).


Because of this policy, no further Windows releases need to be listed in 
this PEP.



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what you can do for our language.

Mark Lawrence

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Re: python.exe is not a valid win32 executable

[Chris Angelico]

On Fri, Oct 30, 2015 at 3:14 AM, Steffen Herzfeldt  wrote:
> Hi,
> today i downloaded python3.5.0 x86 (win32) installer.
> after the programm installed the files into its standard directory without
> asking me if i wanted it in a different position, i tried running a program
> that was written for python 3.3.x
> the response of my system was an error message "python.exe is not a valid 32
> bit executable." .
>
> I just wanted to let you know that your program just doesn't work on WinXP.

Yes, that's correct.

> I guess you just think "Linux is better anyway" to which i agree until it
> comes to games requiring directx, but that doesn't change the fact that the
> installer was labeled as working on win32 systems.

Python 3.5 *does* work on Win32 systems that are still supported by
Microsoft - specifically, Windows 7, 8, and 10, as well as the server
builds that are still in support. Maintaining support for Windows XP
would mean avoiding the benefit of newer APIs and other features, and
the policy of the Python development team is to support only those
releases of Windows which still have upstream support as of when they
are released.

You can use Python 3.4 and 2.7 on XP, and you can use Python 3.5 on
Win 7 or better.

> I hope you solve the problem.

There isn't a problem to be solved, except for the one that a
12-year-old release of a closed-source operating system is still in
use. Do you expect the latest Python builds to run on Windows 98SE?
No. It's time to move on.

Well, actually, there is one issue here, and that's that the installer
goes all the way through until the very end, and then you get that
cryptic error message. That's a known flaw in the installer, and once
Python 3.5.1 is released, that should be fixed - but it's "fixed" in
the sense that you now will get a simple and clear message, rather
than being "fixed" in terms of letting you run Python 3.5 on Win XP.

> keep up the good work and once Linux natively handles directx i'll dump MS
> immediately.

I don't know what you mean by "natively", but I play a number of
DirectX games on my Debian Linux. Give it a try! You might find that
it all works perfectly.

ChrisA
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Re: python.exe is not a valid win32 executable

[Tim Golden]

On 29/10/2015 16:14, Steffen Herzfeldt wrote:

I just wanted to let you know that your program just doesn't work on WinXP.
I guess you just think "Linux is better anyway" to which i agree until
it comes to games requiring directx, but that doesn't change the fact
that the installer was labeled as working on win32 systems.


Others have replied that the installer has a fix for the next release 
which will highlight this sooner. I would point out that we have 
gradually dropped support for *several* win32-based systems over the 
last few years, more or less following Microsoft's own deprecation 
regime. Win9x was dropped in 2.6; 2000 was dropped in 3.3.


There's a balance to be had in everything: every system we support adds 
some burden of maintenance. There's no pro-Linux conspiracy here: just 
the development team making pragmatic choices about maintenance and support.


TJG
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Re: python.exe is not a valid win32 executable

[Laura Creighton]

In a message of Thu, 29 Oct 2015 17:14:25 +0100, "Steffen Herzfeldt" writes:
>Hi,
>today i downloaded python3.5.0 x86 (win32) installer.
>after the programm installed the files into its standard directory without
>asking me if i wanted it in a different position, i tried running a program
>that was written for python 3.3.x
>the response of my system was an error message "python.exe is not a valid
>32 bit executable." .
> 
>I just wanted to let you know that your program just doesn't work on WinXP.

Thank you.  We have a bug report in about detecting winXP early
and saying that 3.5 requires a newer version of windows.  The
next installer should report this properly.

>I guess you just think "Linux is better anyway" to which i agree until it
>comes to games requiring directx, but that doesn't change the fact that the
>installer was labeled as working on win32 systems.

You are wrong about the thinking -- indeed the installer was written
by a Microsoft employee, Steven Dower.  He just missed  having
it detect winXP.  

>I hope you solve the problem.

Alas, it is a 'won't fix' for python.org.  Maybe Activestate or
Continuum.io will support XP with their 3.5 packages, but 
python-dev is not going to.

>keep up the good work and once Linux natively handles directx i'll dump MS
>immediately.

*oh how I wish*

>with best regards,
> 
>Steffen H.

Sorry we didn't do a better job of telling you this will not work,

Laura

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Re: python.exe is not a valid win32 executable

[Gisle Vanem]

Mark Lawrence wrote:


CPython's Windows support now follows this lifecycle. A new feature
release X.Y.0 will support all Windows releases whose extended support
phase is not yet expired. Subsequent bug fix releases will support the
same Windows releases as the original feature release (even if the
extended support phase has ended).


The reason for error message the OP reported is what
the MSVC 2015 (?) linker puts in the PE optional header.
From 'pedump python3.exe':

Optional Header
  Magic 010B
  linker version14.00
  ...
  file align200
  required OS version   6.00   << !!

Hence the error on Win-XP (i.e. 5.x).

Wouldn't it be more elegant of Python (and it's installer)
to put a '-subsystem:console,5.02' in the link flags?
And then detect Win-XP later on and refuse a further install?

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Re: python.exe is not a valid win32 executable

[Laura Creighton]

In a message of Thu, 29 Oct 2015 19:21:14 +0100, Gisle Vanem writes:
>Wouldn't it be more elegant of Python (and it's installer)
>to put a '-subsystem:console,5.02' in the link flags?
>And then detect Win-XP later on and refuse a further install?
>
>-- 
>--gv
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>https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list

In 3.5.1 it will (already does, I think).  Actually I do not know
how Steve Dower chose to detect XP early, but that would be a
good way. see https://bugs.python.org/issue25143
And add your idea if you like.

Laura
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Re: python.exe is not a valid win32 executable

[Terry Reedy]

On 10/29/2015 1:14 PM, Laura Creighton wrote:


Alas, it is a 'won't fix' for python.org.  Maybe Activestate or
Continuum.io will support XP with their 3.5 packages,


It would be an unpleasant task at best.  CPython does not work with xp 
because is uses shiny new system features that first appeared in Vista. 
 Either they were not used before, or the code contained version-based 
conditions to either use the new feature or use an inferior workaround.


Suppose you want to use 'yield from' in a 3.x module.  You have 3 
choices: 1. don't use it; 2. use it conditionally and also provide a 
workaround based on 'yield'; 3. use it and as a consequence, require 3.4+.


By analogy, the cpython developers felt constrained to use options 1 or 
2, both of which have their costs, and support xp for as long as 
Microsoft supported xp.  When Microsoft dropped support for xp, they 
felt free to switch to option 3 *for new versions*.


I don't know if there are any new-in-win7 features that coredevs are 
just waiting to use when Vista goes off MS support.


--
Terry Jan Reedy

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