Re: Simple Question regarding running .py program
Grant Edwards invalid@invalid.invalid wrote: [1] OK, so I'm am annoyed with them after my Google phone updated to Android 4.2 this afternoon and the lock-screen clock is now _physically_painful_ to look at. However, I'm convinced that's not evil -- just a complete and utter lack of visual design ability. You can select any other lock screen widget as the default, so why not download some more widgets from Play and choose something different. e.g. Beautiful Clock Widgets or HD Widgets but there are probably others. To change the default lockscreen widget swipe left from the lockscreen until you get to a page with only a '+', add the new widget there, then long press that widget and drag it to be the rightmost page. Then you should be sorted just so long as you don't have any friends with December birthdays. -- Duncan Booth http://kupuguy.blogspot.com -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Simple Question regarding running .py program
On 11/14/2012 04:07 PM, Steven D'Aprano wrote: On Wed, 14 Nov 2012 10:20:13 -0800, rurpy wrote: I'll skip the issues already addressed by Joshua Landau. [...] I don't understand why you suggest counting setup time for the alternatives to Google Groups, but *don't* consider setup time for Google Groups. You had to create a Google Account didn't you? You've either put in your mobile phone number -- and screw those who don't have one -- or you get badgered every time you sign in. You do sign in don't you? Yes I sign in. And I've never entered my mobile phone number and no I don't get badgered every time (I've not been asked when I logged in several times today and I just tried again to confirm.) I have been asked in the past and just ignore it -- click Save (or whatever the button is) with a blank text box. As was pointed out, a large number of people already have Google accounts. And creating an account at Google is not comparable to researching news readers, downloading and installing software, setting up an account, etc for someone who's never even heard of usenet before. Subscribing to email is easier but it has its own problems (all those email you don't care about, the time delay (I've had to wait over 24 hours for a response for some email lists), what to do when you're traveling, reading some groups via email but others by GG. I've also had problems trying to post through Gmane and then there were Gmane's accessibly problems a few months ago, fixed now but for how long? The OP had already found her way to GG and managed to post. So the incremental cost for her to *continue* using GG is very low. That's in comparision to *changing* to a new posting method. I'm not saying the Google is always easier than an alternative but for a significant number of people it is. But most importantly it is *their* place to say what is easier for them, not yours or mine. [...] Even if you are right that Google Groups is easier for some users, in my opinion it is easy in the same way as the Dark Side of the Force. Quicker, faster, more seductive, but ultimately destructive. Well, that's the best example of FUD I've seen in this thread so far. Congratulations. ;-) As for best, that is clearly a matter of opinion. The very fact that someone would killfile an entire class of poster based on a some others' posts reeks of intolerance and group-think. Intolerance? Yes. But group-think? You believe that people are merely copying the group's prejudice against Google Groups. Please don't tell me what I believe, especially when you get it wrong. I don't think they are. I think that the dislike against GG is group consensus based on the evidence of our own eyes, not a mere prejudice. The use of Google Groups is, as far as I can tell, the single most effective predictor of badly written, badly thought out, badly formatted posts, and a common source of spam. Again you repeat Chris Angelo's mistake (if it's a mistake). group's prejudice? You've presented no evidence that the group as a whole or in large part (including many people who seldom if ever post) share your view. Same with consensus. A consensus of whom? Are you saying there is a consensus among those who dislike GG posts that they dislike GG posts? You say the dislike is not a mere prejudice and yet I can't help but wonder where the hard evidence is. I've not seen it posted though I could have easily missed it. All the news/email tools I use make it a little work to see where a post came from -- usually they'll be a button somewhere or a menu item to show the headers and one will scan those for the source. While easy enough it is still (at least for me) much easier to simply skip a post based on the subject/poster or a quick peak at the contents. So I've never had any inclination to look and have no idea how many crap posts come from GG. Yet you claim that a large percentage of this group has made the effort to do that. (Or maybe there is an easier way to check?) However I can easily imagine how some could think they are checking... Oh man, what a crap post! Let's check the headers. Yup, just as I thought, Google Groups. But of course, our genius doesn't keep any records and the cases where he is wrong don't make as much impression on his memory. Further, he doesn't bother to check the headers on the non-crap posts. Even a junior-high science student could see the problems with this methodology. And how many people actually do even that? Some may find it an offensive suggestion but there is such a thing as group psychology and there are people who follow leaders. (I suspect those people are all of us at least some of the time.) Further people tend to be convinced even more easily when they think everybody knows it. So when a few of the more prolific and respected posters here start talking about the consensus is..., deprecated on this list and make
Re: Simple Question regarding running .py program
On 15/11/2012 21:29, ru...@yahoo.com wrote: All I'll say is that when I read something on gmane via Thunderbird on Windows Vista on any of the 25 Python mailing lists that I subscribe to, I don't want to read the double spaced crap that comes from G$. I hence perceive a problem. 1) G$ are too interested in making huge profits and so have no interest in people who have to read the garbage that originates from them. 2) People who are too bone idle to get hold of any other mechanism that doesn't put the double spaced garbage in. Any and all answers to this dilemma are welcome. -- Cheers. Mark Lawrence. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Simple Question regarding running .py program
On 2012-11-15, Mark Lawrence breamore...@yahoo.co.uk wrote: On 15/11/2012 21:29, ru...@yahoo.com wrote: All I'll say is that when I read something on gmane via Thunderbird on Windows Vista on any of the 25 Python mailing lists that I subscribe to, I don't want to read the double spaced crap that comes from G$. Doesn't Thunderbird have a scoring, blocking, or blacklisting facility to allow you to hide/ignore those posts? I have slrn hide all postings with headers that contain a line that matches this (case-insensitve) RE: Message-ID: .*googlegroups.com I hence perceive a problem. Indeed. 1) G$ are too interested in making huge profits and so have no interest in people who have to read the garbage that originates from them. While I generally find Google to be mostly non-evil[1] (at least when compared to most other behmouth companies), their attitude regarding Google Groups is notably awful. 2) People who are too bone idle to get hold of any other mechanism that doesn't put the double spaced garbage in. Or it could be they're too ignorant to know there's a problem. Trying to explain the problem and the available options is, IME, pointless. Even if you can drag them along to the point where they understand there's a problem and they can do something about it, as long as people read and respond to their posts, they've got no motivation to do so. Any and all answers to this dilemma are welcome. I just gave up and now ignore posts from Google Groups. I've decided there's no point it trying to change either Google Groups itself or the people who use it. I occasionally see most/all of posts from GG when they get quoted in followups, and never have I had occasion to wish I hadn't missed a GG posting. [1] OK, so I'm am annoyed with them after my Google phone updated to Android 4.2 this afternoon and the lock-screen clock is now _physically_painful_ to look at. However, I'm convinced that's not evil -- just a complete and utter lack of visual design ability. -- Grant -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Simple Question regarding running .py program
On Nov 16, 2:29 am, ru...@yahoo.com wrote: But of course, our genius doesn't keep any records and the cases where he is wrong don't make as much impression on his memory. Further, he doesn't bother to check the headers on the non-crap posts. Even a junior-high science student could see the problems with this methodology. Reminds of the difference between pop and educated statistics: http://www.johndcook.com/blog/2008/10/20/nearly-everyone-is-above-average/ On the whole I agree with rurpy. One small addition: GG allows spam posts to be marked as spam. This feature costs a few seconds and can help everyone (if a few more GG users would use it) -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Simple Question regarding running .py program
On Fri, Nov 16, 2012 at 3:10 PM, rusi rustompm...@gmail.com wrote: One small addition: GG allows spam posts to be marked as spam. This feature costs a few seconds and can help everyone (if a few more GG users would use it) And Gmail lets you do the exact same thing, but I almost never need to do it, because the filter is already pretty good. Though every once in a while I go check the spambox and there's usually something that technically shouldn't have been called spam (but even then, I've never regretted missing it). And I'm sure you can get it with a newsreader too, though I've not looked. Spam filtering is nothing unique. ChrisA -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Simple Question regarding running .py program
On Fri, Nov 16, 2012 at 5:37 PM, Chris Angelico ros...@gmail.com wrote: Spam filtering is nothing unique. (Don't get me wrong though, that doesn't stop it from being a good thing. It's just not a reason to use GG above all else.) ChrisA -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Simple Question regarding running .py program
On Wed, Nov 14, 2012 at 6:02 PM, ru...@yahoo.com wrote: On 11/13/2012 11:02 PM, Chris Angelico wrote: To be more accurate: This is deprecated *by members of* this list. As there is no commanding/controlling entity here, it's up to each individual to make a decision - for instance, abusive users get killfiled rather than banned. The use of Google Groups to post is deprecated in the original sense of the word: strongly disapproved of. s/deprecated *by members of*/deprecated *by some members of*/ (and accuracy could probably be increased further by replacing some with a few.) I stand by what I said. Members, plural, of this list. I didn't say all members of, ergo the word some is superfluous, yet not needful, as Princess Ida put it. In any case, the fact remains that a number of this list's best responders have killfiled Google Groups posters as a whole. Consequently, GG forces you to go to quite a bit of extra work AND prevents your message from getting through to everyone. Why go to extra work to get a worse result? I am therefore not going to recommend Google Groups to anyone as a means of posting to python-list/c.l.p, any more than I would recommend writing it on a Post-It note and feeding it into your floppy drive. ChrisA -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Simple Question regarding running .py program
On 11/14/2012 06:35 AM, Chris Angelico wrote: On Wed, Nov 14, 2012 at 6:02 PM, rurpy wrote: On 11/13/2012 11:02 PM, Chris Angelico wrote: To be more accurate: This is deprecated *by members of* this list. As there is no commanding/controlling entity here, it's up to each individual to make a decision - for instance, abusive users get killfiled rather than banned. The use of Google Groups to post is deprecated in the original sense of the word: strongly disapproved of. s/deprecated *by members of*/deprecated *by some members of*/ (and accuracy could probably be increased further by replacing some with a few.) I stand by what I said. Members, plural, of this list. I didn't say all members of, ergo the word some is superfluous, yet not needful, as Princess Ida put it. Then you would have no problem I suppose with Australians are racists because some Australians are racist and I didn't say all? I stand by what I said. Using the passive voice to give a false sense of authority, leaving out quantifiers when there are likely thousands of readers of this group perhaps a half dozen who've been vocal against GG, is not an accurate description. In any case, the fact remains that a number of this list's best responders have killfiled Google Groups posters as a whole. Consequently, GG forces you to go to quite a bit of extra work AND prevents your message from getting through to everyone. Why go to extra work to get a worse result? As a user of GG, Usenet and email lists I claim you are wrong. GG does NOT require quite a bit of extra work. If it did, I wouldn't use it. For occasional posters, GG is EASIER. (It would be even easier if Google would fix their execrable quoting behaviour but as I showed, it is easy to work around that.) I think you are ignoring setup time and a number of other secondary factors, things that are very significant to occasional posters, in your evaluation of easy. As for best, that is clearly a matter of opinion. The very fact that someone would killfile an entire class of poster based on a some others' posts reeks of intolerance and group-think. And since some of the anti-GG proponents are also among the most opinionated and argumentative participants here, their not reading GG posts could be seen as an advantage. As an aside, I've noticed that some those most vocal against GG have also been very vocal about this group being inclusive. If one observes that women post here (as a group) a lot less frequently then men, and if GG is easier for occasional posters, then the anti-GG attitude expressed here by a few would have the effect of disproportionately discriminating against women. I am therefore not going to recommend Google Groups to anyone as a means of posting to python-list/c.l.p, That's fine. But when doing so please leave out the false metaphors... any more than I would recommend writing it on a Post-It note and feeding it into your floppy drive. ...such as posting here via GG is similar to feeding post-its into a floppy drive. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Simple Question regarding running .py program
On Wed, 14 Nov 2012 10:20:13 -0800, rurpy wrote: On 11/14/2012 06:35 AM, Chris Angelico wrote: [...] I stand by what I said. Members, plural, of this list. I didn't say all members of, ergo the word some is superfluous, yet not needful, as Princess Ida put it. Then you would have no problem I suppose with Australians are racists because some Australians are racist and I didn't say all? Speaking as an Australian, I wouldn't have a problem with that, because Australians *are* racist. To the degree that we can talk about a national character, the national character of Australia is racist, even if many Aussies aren't, and many more try not to be. In any case, your example is provocative. Here's a less provocative version: [paraphrase] Then you would have no problem I suppose with People have two legs because some people have two legs and I didn't say all? [end paraphrase] As a user of GG, Usenet and email lists I claim you are wrong. GG does NOT require quite a bit of extra work. If it did, I wouldn't use it. For occasional posters, GG is EASIER. (It would be even easier if Google would fix their execrable quoting behaviour but as I showed, it is easy to work around that.) I think you are ignoring setup time and a number of other secondary factors, things that are very significant to occasional posters, in your evaluation of easy. I don't understand why you suggest counting setup time for the alternatives to Google Groups, but *don't* consider setup time for Google Groups. You had to create a Google Account didn't you? You've either put in your mobile phone number -- and screw those who don't have one -- or you get badgered every time you sign in. You do sign in don't you? For *really* occasional posters, they might not even remember their Google account details from one post to the next. So they have to either create a new account, or go through the process of recreating it. Why do you ignore these factors in *your* evaluation of easy? We all do it -- when we talk about easy or difficult, we have an idealised generalised user in mind. Your idealised user is different from Chris' idealised user. You are both generalising. And that's *my* generalisation. Even if you are right that Google Groups is easier for some users, in my opinion it is easy in the same way as the Dark Side of the Force. Quicker, faster, more seductive, but ultimately destructive. As for best, that is clearly a matter of opinion. The very fact that someone would killfile an entire class of poster based on a some others' posts reeks of intolerance and group-think. Intolerance? Yes. But group-think? You believe that people are merely copying the group's prejudice against Google Groups. I don't think they are. I think that the dislike against GG is group consensus based on the evidence of our own eyes, not a mere prejudice. The use of Google Groups is, as far as I can tell, the single most effective predictor of badly written, badly thought out, badly formatted posts, and a common source of spam. As for intolerance, you say that like it is that a bad thing. Why should people have to tolerate bad behaviour? Google Groups *encourages* bad behaviour. Should we tolerate spam because any spam filter might occasionally throw away a legitimate mail? Should we tolerate acid attacks on women because occasionally there might be some woman who actually deserves such a horrible fate? I don't think so. For many things, intolerance is a *good* thing, and many people here believe that intolerance for Google Groups is one of those cases. You of course are free to make whatever arrangements to filter spam and use Google Groups as you like, but you equally must respect other people's right to control their own inbox by filtering away GG posters. [...] As an aside, I've noticed that some those most vocal against GG have also been very vocal about this group being inclusive. I call bullshit. If you are going to accuse people of being very vocal against minorities, you damn well better have some evidence to back up your claim. And if you don't, I would expect a public apology for that slur. -- Steven -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Simple Question regarding running .py program
On Wednesday, November 14, 2012 4:07:53 PM UTC-7, Steven D'Aprano wrote: On Wed, 14 Nov 2012 10:20:13 -0800, rurpy wrote: [...] As an aside, I've noticed that some those most vocal against GG have also been very vocal about this group being inclusive. I call bullshit. If you are going to accuse people of being very vocal against minorities, you damn well better have some evidence to back up your claim. And if you don't, I would expect a public apology for that slur. I wasn't very clear. I should have written ...those most vocal against GG have also been very vocal *in favor* of this group being inclusive. In the next paragraph which you clipped I pointed out the irony of that attitude versus one possible effect of advocating the blacklisting of GG posters: If one observes that women post here (as a group) a lot less frequently then men, and if GG is easier for occasional posters, then the anti-GG attitude expressed here by a few would have the effect of disproportionately discriminating against women. Response to your other points will need to wait until I have more time. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Simple Question regarding running .py program
Steven, whilst I hold you in high regard, this post seems spurned by bias. I would urge you to reconsider your *argument*, although your *position* has merit. On 14 November 2012 23:07, Steven D'Aprano steve+comp.lang.pyt...@pearwood.info wrote: On Wed, 14 Nov 2012 10:20:13 -0800, rurpy wrote: On 11/14/2012 06:35 AM, Chris Angelico wrote: I stand by what I said. Members, plural, of this list. I didn't say all members of, ergo the word some is superfluous, yet not needful, as Princess Ida put it. Then you would have no problem I suppose with Australians are racists because some Australians are racist and I didn't say all? Speaking as an Australian, I wouldn't have a problem with that, because Australians *are* racist. To the degree that we can talk about a national character, the national character of Australia is racist, even if many Aussies aren't, and many more try not to be. In any case, your example is provocative. Here's a less provocative version: [paraphrase] Then you would have no problem I suppose with People have two legs because some people have two legs and I didn't say all? [end paraphrase] Ahem? Seriously? With rounding, all people *do* have two legs. That's not fair. In fact, the idea that most users of this list ban Google Groups is probably false. Additionally, being provocative isn't actually weakness of his argument, although it is a distraction. He asked if you had a problem with it on the basis that if it was a fair claim you would not, in order to show that it was not a fair claim. That would *imply* his correctness. How about this(?): People have brown hair. As a user of GG, Usenet and email lists I claim you are wrong. GG does NOT require quite a bit of extra work. If it did, I wouldn't use it. For occasional posters, GG is EASIER. (It would be even easier if Google would fix their execrable quoting behaviour but as I showed, it is easy to work around that.) I think you are ignoring setup time and a number of other secondary factors, things that are very significant to occasional posters, in your evaluation of easy. I don't understand why you suggest counting setup time for the alternatives to Google Groups, but *don't* consider setup time for Google Groups. You had to create a Google Account didn't you? You've either put in your mobile phone number -- and screw those who don't have one -- or you get badgered every time you sign in. You do sign in don't you? That's not fair, either, on the basis that almost everyone has a Google account. Additionally, who signs in manually any more [*wink*]? For *really* occasional posters, they might not even remember their Google account details from one post to the next. So they have to either create a new account, or go through the process of recreating it. Why do you ignore these factors in *your* evaluation of easy? They might not remember their Email account either. This seems to be a really contrived point. We all do it -- when we talk about easy or difficult, we have an idealised generalised user in mind. Your idealised user is different from Chris' idealised user. You are both generalising. And that's *my* generalisation. All of this is really beside the point, anyway. He claimed the he used it because *he* found it easier. And there was claim that there were good reasons to use Google Groups. If you claim that his point is invalid because it only talks about *his* idealised user, you've only invalidated your own point. Even if you are right that Google Groups is easier for some users, in my opinion it is easy in the same way as the Dark Side of the Force. Quicker, faster, more seductive, but ultimately destructive. How so? As for best, that is clearly a matter of opinion. The very fact that someone would killfile an entire class of poster based on a some others' posts reeks of intolerance and group-think. Intolerance? Yes. But group-think? You believe that people are merely copying the group's prejudice against Google Groups. I don't think they are. I think that the dislike against GG is group consensus based on the evidence of our own eyes, not a mere prejudice. Consensus? Hrm...A synonym of consensus is unanimity. This argument's existence basically disproves that. The use of Google Groups is, as far as I can tell, the single most effective predictor of badly written, badly thought out, badly formatted posts, and a common source of spam. As for intolerance, you say that like it is that a bad thing. Why should people have to tolerate bad behaviour? Google Groups *encourages* bad behaviour. I think this is a valid thing to say. I agree largely because it's the user's choice to read and reply to this list. Calling someone helpful in a community intolerant because you think they could be nicer would be a bit intolerant yourself. Should we tolerate spam because any spam filter might occasionally throw away a legitimate
Re: Simple Question regarding running .py program
On Wed, 14 Nov 2012 23:07:53 +, Steven D'Aprano wrote: On Wed, 14 Nov 2012 10:20:13 -0800, rurpy wrote: [...] [...] As an aside, I've noticed that some those most vocal against GG have also been very vocal about this group being inclusive. I call bullshit. If you are going to accuse people of being very vocal against minorities, you damn well better have some evidence to back up your claim. And if you don't, I would expect a public apology for that slur. Ah, apparently I misread Rurpy's comment. I'm sorry, I was completely wrong to accuse Rurpy of accusing others of being opposed to including minorites in this group. My apologies Rurpy, I don't know how I made that misreading. -- Steven -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Simple Question regarding running .py program
On 11/13/2012 11:10 PM, Chris Angelico wrote: On Wed, Nov 14, 2012 at 2:31 PM, Caroline Hou joyhou2...@gmail.com wrote: Thank you Dave and everybody here for your helpful comments!This place is awesome! I found this group when I googled python-list. Seems like this is not the usual way you guys access the list? There are several ways to communicate with this list. * The comp.lang.python newsgroup - get a newsreader (there are plenty around), and either connect to your ISP's news server (if they have one that carries c.l.p) or to a public server, some of which cost money. * Use a news-to-web gateway such as Google Groups. That specific one is deprecated on this list, as there's more noise than signal from Google Groups. * The mailing list python-list, delivered directly to your inbox many times a day. This is what I personally use. news.gmane.org group gmane.comp.python.general many 'mail' programs such as Outlook Express or Thunderbird also handle news -- Terry Jan Reedy -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Simple Question regarding running .py program
On 11/14/2012 2:02 AM, ru...@yahoo.com wrote: On the other hand finding and configuring a newsreader for someone whose never done it before, as you recommend, is a major time consumer. Use a mail/news program such as Thunderbird and the newsreader comes for free. Setting up a gmane account with Thunderbird was, as I remember rather easy, easier than setting up a mail account. -- Terry Jan Reedy -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Simple Question regarding running .py program
On 11/12/2012 09:45 PM, Caroline Hou wrote: snip all the doublespaced quotes Hi Dave! thank you very much for your quick reply! I did manage to get the program run from cmd.exe. So does it mean that if I want to use python interactively,I should use the interpreter,while if I just want to run a python program, I should use DOS shell instead? The DOS shell is one answer that settled both of your original questions. It's also how I run about 90% of the time. But different people have different preferences. The interpreter is great for experimenting. But if you have non-trivial code (presumably written in a file), then you have to import it. Which means references to the stuff there are done with mymodule.myfunction. That can get tiresome after a while. And if you have to change the source file, it's not always safe to reload it (so I never do). If I've imported something, and that something has changed, I quit the interpreter and start it over. When you're running the script as a whole from the DOS box, it's always a clean start. Also, how could I edit my script? I have sth called IDLE installed along with python. Is it the right place to write/edit my script? Any text editor will do, but especially one with some knowledge of the Python syntax. Don't use Notepad. I've never used IDLE (I use a commercial one called Komodo IDE), so I can't say how good it is. Many people love IDLE, though. The thing is, any IDE will require some setup (setting directory paths, project settings, etc.), and some getting used to. Some don't work very well for GUI programs, others truncate traceback listings (maybe giving you a GUI view of the same information). Some apparently won't even let you copy/paste a traceback into a mail message. So it's very useful to also get thoroughly acquainted with the cmd prompt. Sorry about these semi-idiot questions but it is really hard to find an article or book that covers such basic stuffs! Nothing wrong with those questions. Welcome to Python-list. -- DaveA -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Simple Question regarding running .py program
On Tuesday, 13 November 2012 08:15:45 UTC+5:30, Caroline Hou wrote: On Monday, 12 November 2012 21:25:08 UTC-5, Dave Angel wrote: On 11/12/2012 09:02 PM, Caroline Hou wrote: Hi all! I just started learning Python by myself and I have an extremely simple question now! I am in my Python interpreter now and I want to open/edit a program called nobel.py. But when I typed python nobel.py, it gave me a SyntaxError:invalid syntax”( I've changed to the correct directory)what should I do? I also want to run the program, but as I double-clicked the program, a command window pops up and closes immediately. How can I see the result of the program run? Could anyone help me please? I am pretty confused here...Thank you! It'd be nice to specify that you're running Windows, and also what version of the interpreter, although in this case the latter doesn't matter. Go to a shell (cmd.exe), change to the directory containing that script, and type the command as you did. On linux: davea@think:~$ python nobel.py On Windows: c:\mydir\myscript python nobel.py If you're already in the python interpreter, then running python is useless -- it's already running. In that case, you might want to use import. However, I recommend against it at first, as it opens up some other problems you haven't experience with yet. When you say you double clicked the program', we have to guess you might have meant in MS Explorer. If you do that, it launches a cmd, it runs the python system, and it closes the cmd. Blame Windows for not reading your mind. If you want the cmd window to stick around, you COULD end your program with an raw_input function call, but frequently that won't work. The right answer is the first one above... Open a shell (perhaps with a menu like DOS BOX), change... That way, when the program finishes, you can see what happened, or didn't happen, and you can run it again using the uparrow key. BTW, you don't need to send email to both the python-list and to the newsgroup. The newsgroup is automatically fed from the list. But since you're posting from google groups, that's just one of the bugs. Many folks here simply filter out everything from google groups, so your post is invisible to them. -- DaveA Hi Dave! thank you very much for your quick reply! I did manage to get the program run from cmd.exe. So does it mean that if I want to use python interactively,I should use the interpreter,while if I just want to run a python program, I should use DOS shell instead? Also, how could I edit my script? I have sth called IDLE installed along with python. Is it the right place to write/edit my script? Sorry about these semi-idiot questions but it is really hard to find an article or book that covers such basic stuffs! Thank you! Caroline Hou IDLE is recommended for newbies like you because an IDE requires too much configuration. When you start writing a big project, you can use an IDE. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Simple Question regarding running .py program
On Tuesday, November 13, 2012 7:35:32 AM UTC-5, Ramchandra Apte wrote: On Tuesday, 13 November 2012 08:15:45 UTC+5:30, Caroline Hou wrote: On Monday, 12 November 2012 21:25:08 UTC-5, Dave Angel wrote: On 11/12/2012 09:02 PM, Caroline Hou wrote: Hi all! I just started learning Python by myself and I have an extremely simple question now! I am in my Python interpreter now and I want to open/edit a program called nobel.py. But when I typed python nobel.py, it gave me a SyntaxError:invalid syntax”( I've changed to the correct directory)what should I do? I also want to run the program, but as I double-clicked the program, a command window pops up and closes immediately. How can I see the result of the program run? Could anyone help me please? I am pretty confused here...Thank you! It'd be nice to specify that you're running Windows, and also what version of the interpreter, although in this case the latter doesn't matter. Go to a shell (cmd.exe), change to the directory containing that script, and type the command as you did. On linux: davea@think:~$ python nobel.py On Windows: c:\mydir\myscript python nobel.py If you're already in the python interpreter, then running python is useless -- it's already running. In that case, you might want to use import. However, I recommend against it at first, as it opens up some other problems you haven't experience with yet. When you say you double clicked the program', we have to guess you might have meant in MS Explorer. If you do that, it launches a cmd, it runs the python system, and it closes the cmd. Blame Windows for not reading your mind. If you want the cmd window to stick around, you COULD end your program with an raw_input function call, but frequently that won't work. The right answer is the first one above... Open a shell (perhaps with a menu like DOS BOX), change... That way, when the program finishes, you can see what happened, or didn't happen, and you can run it again using the uparrow key. BTW, you don't need to send email to both the python-list and to the newsgroup. The newsgroup is automatically fed from the list. But since you're posting from google groups, that's just one of the bugs. Many folks here simply filter out everything from google groups, so your post is invisible to them. -- DaveA Hi Dave! thank you very much for your quick reply! I did manage to get the program run from cmd.exe. So does it mean that if I want to use python interactively,I should use the interpreter,while if I just want to run a python program, I should use DOS shell instead? Also, how could I edit my script? I have sth called IDLE installed along with python. Is it the right place to write/edit my script? Sorry about these semi-idiot questions but it is really hard to find an article or book that covers such basic stuffs! Thank you! Caroline Hou IDLE is recommended for newbies like you because an IDE requires too much configuration. When you start writing a big project, you can use an IDE. Thank you Dave and everybody here for your helpful comments!This place is awesome! I found this group when I googled python-list. Seems like this is not the usual way you guys access the list? -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Simple Question regarding running .py program
On Wed, Nov 14, 2012 at 2:31 PM, Caroline Hou joyhou2...@gmail.com wrote: Thank you Dave and everybody here for your helpful comments!This place is awesome! I found this group when I googled python-list. Seems like this is not the usual way you guys access the list? There are several ways to communicate with this list. * The comp.lang.python newsgroup - get a newsreader (there are plenty around), and either connect to your ISP's news server (if they have one that carries c.l.p) or to a public server, some of which cost money. * Use a news-to-web gateway such as Google Groups. That specific one is deprecated on this list, as there's more noise than signal from Google Groups. * The mailing list python-list, delivered directly to your inbox many times a day. This is what I personally use. Try here: http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list ChrisA -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Simple Question regarding running .py program
On 11/13/2012 09:10 PM, Chris Angelico wrote: On Wed, Nov 14, 2012 at 2:31 PM, Caroline Hou wrote: Thank you Dave and everybody here for your helpful comments!This place is awesome! I found this group when I googled python-list. Seems like this is not the usual way you guys access the list? There are several ways to communicate with this list. [...] * Use a news-to-web gateway such as Google Groups. That specific one is deprecated on this list, as there's more noise than signal from Google Groups. Caroline, Chris is mistaken about this, if for no other reason than there is no authority here empowered to decide to deprecate anything. What Chris should have said is that there are some people on this list who don't like Google Groups for whatever reason and encourage others to ignore posts from Google Groups. How successful this boycott effort is is not clear. I use Google Groups as it suits my needs better than any of the alternatives, and so do many others. Both of the other alternatives Chris mentioned involve too much setup or overhead for those who read/post here only occasionally. GG fills this niche adequately if used with care. If you do use Google Groups to post, there are a couple of things you should be careful of: * You'll sometimes see a checkbox above the GG send window that is a CC to the python mailing list (pytho...@python.org) which is checked by default. Uncheck that before sending, or the list will get two copies of your message. * GG doesn't do a very good job in quoting the post you are replying to. If you look at your recent post here: http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-list/2012-November/635070.html (or on GG) you will see lots and lots of lines empty save for the quote markers. This makes a post hard to read. A way to avoid this is to remove the blank extra blank lines in the GG send window by hand before posting. Alternatively, many email programs have a paste as quotation option when writing mail. What I do is to open a blank new email message, copy the original post I'm replying to from GG, paste-as-quotation into the new mail window, then copy and paste back into the GG send window. Pretty easy to do once you get used to it. Hope this helps and provides a little more accurate info about posting from GG than has been provided so far. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Simple Question regarding running .py program
On Wed, Nov 14, 2012 at 4:08 PM, ru...@yahoo.com wrote: On 11/13/2012 09:10 PM, Chris Angelico wrote: * Use a news-to-web gateway such as Google Groups. That specific one is deprecated on this list, as there's more noise than signal from Google Groups. Caroline, Chris is mistaken about this, if for no other reason than there is no authority here empowered to decide to deprecate anything. What Chris should have said is that there are some people on this list who don't like Google Groups for whatever reason and encourage others to ignore posts from Google Groups. How successful this boycott effort is is not clear. To be more accurate: This is deprecated *by members of* this list. As there is no commanding/controlling entity here, it's up to each individual to make a decision - for instance, abusive users get killfiled rather than banned. The use of Google Groups to post is deprecated in the original sense of the word: strongly disapproved of. My own opinion on the matter is that if it takes as much effort as you describe to use GG properly, it's wasting your time on a massive scale. Surely it's easier to read and post email? ChrisA -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Simple Question regarding running .py program
On 11/13/2012 11:02 PM, Chris Angelico wrote: On Wed, Nov 14, 2012 at 4:08 PM, rurpy wrote: On 11/13/2012 09:10 PM, Chris Angelico wrote: * Use a news-to-web gateway such as Google Groups. That specific one is deprecated on this list, as there's more noise than signal from Google Groups. Caroline, Chris is mistaken about this, if for no other reason than there is no authority here empowered to decide to deprecate anything. What Chris should have said is that there are some people on this list who don't like Google Groups for whatever reason and encourage others to ignore posts from Google Groups. How successful this boycott effort is is not clear. To be more accurate: This is deprecated *by members of* this list. As there is no commanding/controlling entity here, it's up to each individual to make a decision - for instance, abusive users get killfiled rather than banned. The use of Google Groups to post is deprecated in the original sense of the word: strongly disapproved of. s/deprecated *by members of*/deprecated *by some members of*/ (and accuracy could probably be increased further by replacing some with a few.) And again, s/strongly disapproved of/strongly disapproved of by some/ I was objecting to your attempts to make it sound like a fact that GG posts were nearly universally condemned here, an error you repeat again above. My own opinion on the matter is that if it takes as much effort as you describe to use GG properly, it's wasting your time on a massive scale. Surely it's easier to read and post email? that much effort? Do you consider a couple of copy- pastes to be that much effort? wasting your time on a massive scale? Sheesh, get a grip man, let's not get silly. On the other hand finding and configuring a newsreader for someone whose never done it before, as you recommend, is a major time consumer. And signing up for python-list email, posting, dealing with several days' volume, and then signing off because one does not want to read it full time[*], is no picnic either compared to using GG. Sorry, but there are *good* reasons for some people to use GG whether you want to admit it or not. == [*] Actually, now that I think about it, IIRC one can sign up for python-list email, and go into the mailman settings and disable mail delivery, allowing one to post to the list via email yet read the list via GG, Gmane or whatever. However, this is not going to be obvious to many occasional posters, and is still a PITA compared to just posting from GG as our hypothetical user does for all the other groups he/she participates in. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Simple Question regarding running .py program
On Nov 14, 12:02 pm, ru...@yahoo.com wrote: == [*] Actually, now that I think about it, IIRC one can sign up for python-list email, and go into the mailman settings and disable mail delivery, allowing one to post to the list via email yet read the list via GG, Gmane or whatever. However, this is not going to be obvious to many occasional posters, and is still a PITA compared to just posting from GG as our hypothetical user does for all the other groups he/she participates in. Yes this would be (for me) my most preferred option if I could figure out a way of threading into a preexisting thread. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Simple Question regarding running .py program
Hi all! I just started learning Python by myself and I have an extremely simple question now! I am in my Python interpreter now and I want to open/edit a program called nobel.py. But when I typed python nobel.py, it gave me a SyntaxError:invalid syntax”( I've changed to the correct directory)what should I do? I also want to run the program, but as I double-clicked the program, a command window pops up and closes immediately. How can I see the result of the program run? Could anyone help me please? I am pretty confused here...Thank you! -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Simple Question regarding running .py program
On 11/12/2012 09:02 PM, Caroline Hou wrote: Hi all! I just started learning Python by myself and I have an extremely simple question now! I am in my Python interpreter now and I want to open/edit a program called nobel.py. But when I typed python nobel.py, it gave me a SyntaxError:invalid syntax”( I've changed to the correct directory)what should I do? I also want to run the program, but as I double-clicked the program, a command window pops up and closes immediately. How can I see the result of the program run? Could anyone help me please? I am pretty confused here...Thank you! It'd be nice to specify that you're running Windows, and also what version of the interpreter, although in this case the latter doesn't matter. Go to a shell (cmd.exe), change to the directory containing that script, and type the command as you did. On linux: davea@think:~$ python nobel.py On Windows: c:\mydir\myscript python nobel.py If you're already in the python interpreter, then running python is useless -- it's already running. In that case, you might want to use import. However, I recommend against it at first, as it opens up some other problems you haven't experience with yet. When you say you double clicked the program', we have to guess you might have meant in MS Explorer. If you do that, it launches a cmd, it runs the python system, and it closes the cmd. Blame Windows for not reading your mind. If you want the cmd window to stick around, you COULD end your program with an raw_input function call, but frequently that won't work. The right answer is the first one above... Open a shell (perhaps with a menu like DOS BOX), change... That way, when the program finishes, you can see what happened, or didn't happen, and you can run it again using the uparrow key. BTW, you don't need to send email to both the python-list and to the newsgroup. The newsgroup is automatically fed from the list. But since you're posting from google groups, that's just one of the bugs. Many folks here simply filter out everything from google groups, so your post is invisible to them. -- DaveA -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Simple Question regarding running .py program
On Monday, 12 November 2012 21:25:08 UTC-5, Dave Angel wrote: On 11/12/2012 09:02 PM, Caroline Hou wrote: Hi all! I just started learning Python by myself and I have an extremely simple question now! I am in my Python interpreter now and I want to open/edit a program called nobel.py. But when I typed python nobel.py, it gave me a SyntaxError:invalid syntax”( I've changed to the correct directory)what should I do? I also want to run the program, but as I double-clicked the program, a command window pops up and closes immediately. How can I see the result of the program run? Could anyone help me please? I am pretty confused here...Thank you! It'd be nice to specify that you're running Windows, and also what version of the interpreter, although in this case the latter doesn't matter. Go to a shell (cmd.exe), change to the directory containing that script, and type the command as you did. On linux: davea@think:~$ python nobel.py On Windows: c:\mydir\myscript python nobel.py If you're already in the python interpreter, then running python is useless -- it's already running. In that case, you might want to use import. However, I recommend against it at first, as it opens up some other problems you haven't experience with yet. When you say you double clicked the program', we have to guess you might have meant in MS Explorer. If you do that, it launches a cmd, it runs the python system, and it closes the cmd. Blame Windows for not reading your mind. If you want the cmd window to stick around, you COULD end your program with an raw_input function call, but frequently that won't work. The right answer is the first one above... Open a shell (perhaps with a menu like DOS BOX), change... That way, when the program finishes, you can see what happened, or didn't happen, and you can run it again using the uparrow key. BTW, you don't need to send email to both the python-list and to the newsgroup. The newsgroup is automatically fed from the list. But since you're posting from google groups, that's just one of the bugs. Many folks here simply filter out everything from google groups, so your post is invisible to them. -- DaveA Hi Dave! thank you very much for your quick reply! I did manage to get the program run from cmd.exe. So does it mean that if I want to use python interactively,I should use the interpreter,while if I just want to run a python program, I should use DOS shell instead? Also, how could I edit my script? I have sth called IDLE installed along with python. Is it the right place to write/edit my script? Sorry about these semi-idiot questions but it is really hard to find an article or book that covers such basic stuffs! Thank you! Caroline Hou -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Simple Question regarding running .py program
On 11/12/2012 9:45 PM, Caroline Hou wrote: Also, how could I edit my script? I have sth called IDLE installed along with python. Is it the right place to write/edit my script? IDLE is one way to edit; I use it. When you want to run, hit F5 and stdout and stderr output goes to the shell window. -- Terry Jan Reedy -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
