Re: Tabs for indentation & Spaces for alignment in Python 3?

[Marko Rauhamaa]

Michael Torrie :

> So obviously your zigzaggy diffs are showing that the person who wrote
> the code is *not* using tabs for indent and spaces for alignment.

Source code lives easily for ten years or longer. It is touched by
numerous people in different groups or even companies under different
stylistic preferences. In fact, people rarely have the luxury or
inclination to think in terms of style.

> Since tabs and spaces are not visibly distinguished, it's not readily
> apparent when one is properly using tabs and spaces together,

Your "properly" is different from my "properly," I bet.


Marko
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Re: Tabs for indentation & Spaces for alignment in Python 3?

[Michael Torrie]

On 12/06/2014 10:12 AM, Simon Ward wrote:

> Not every programmer is as conscientious in the first of place, and
> that's far easier to get wrong than just agreeing to stick to one
> thing. This is why (often more rigid) style guides (or rather
> policies) exist.

Sure, but in the world of braces languages, reformatting crappy code is
fairly trivial

> Maybe we should sack such programmers regardless of their other
> abilities instead of forcing all, including the conscientious,
> programmers to adhere to strict style policies? While I like the
> idea, I think that a slap on the wrist and a bit of
> re-indentation/re-alignment is all that is necessary (although I have
> worked with people who consider pure style changes to be a sin too).

I suppose if an employee continually submits commits that violate the
coding standard after being asked time and again to not do that, and is
too lazy to run his code through GNU indent probably should be fired.


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Re: Tabs for indentation & Spaces for alignment in Python 3?

[Simon Ward]

On 6 December 2014 03:04:48 GMT+00:00, Michael Torrie  wrote:
>On 12/05/2014 07:31 PM, Ned Batchelder wrote:
>> This is a perfect example!  The code (with tabs as >--- and leading 
>> spaces as .) is:
>> 
>>   >---if (!list_empty(pending))
>>   >--->---ret = list_first_entry(pending, struct async_entry,
>>   >--->--->--->---...domain_list)->cookie;
>> 
>> Now, display it in your editor with tabs set to four spaces:
>> 
>>   >---if (!list_empty(pending))
>>   >--->---ret = list_first_entry(pending, struct async_entry,
>>   >--->--->--->---...domain_list)->cookie;
>
>However, a conscientious programmer knows that tabs could be
>arbitrarily
>sized, so he would never do that.  Instead he would do:
>
>   >---if (!list_empty(pending))
>   >--->---ret = list_first_entry(pending, struct async_entry,
>   >--->---...domain_list)->cookie;
>
>Which under the heretical tab size of 4:
>   >---if (!list_empty(pending))
>   >--->---ret = list_first_entry(pending, struct async_entry,
>   >--->---...domain_list)->cookie;

Not every programmer is as conscientious in the first of place, and that's far 
easier to get wrong than just agreeing to stick to one thing. This is why 
(often more rigid) style guides (or rather policies) exist. 

Maybe we should sack such programmers regardless of their other abilities 
instead of forcing all, including the conscientious, programmers to adhere to 
strict style policies? While I like the idea, I think that a slap on the wrist 
and a bit of re-indentation/re-alignment is all that is necessary (although I 
have worked with people who consider pure style changes to be a sin too).

Simon
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Re: Tabs for indentation & Spaces for alignment in Python 3?

[Michael Torrie]

On 12/06/2014 09:57 AM, Marko Rauhamaa wrote:
>> And one of the OP's points is that by using tabs for indent, and
>> spaces for alignment, you can have the best of both worlds.
> 
> I certainly doesn't sound that way.

Why is that?

> 
>> Programmers can set their tab size to anything they want, and it still
>> looks good
> 
> That's anything but true. I see zigzaggy diffs all the time.

You're not reading what I'm writing, at least understanding it.  The
idea behind using tabs for indent and spaces for alignment are clear enough:
>--->---blah (one,
>--->---..two

So obviously your zigzaggy diffs are showing that the person who wrote
the code is *not* using tabs for indent and spaces for alignment.  Must
just be using tabs.  Since tabs and spaces are not visibly
distinguished, it's not readily apparent when one is properly using tabs
and spaces together, and not apparent that your editor is doing it
properly, so in Python most people recommend never mixing tabs and
spaces, although you *can* do that in the way I've described if you
really want to.
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Re: Tabs for indentation & Spaces for alignment in Python 3?

[Marko Rauhamaa]

Michael Torrie :

> What dilemma?  Do you mean you can avoid the drama of tabs by going all
> spaces?  Of course in Python this is the recommended course.
>
> But that's typically not what I, or most people, use in C or C++.

"Most people"? Hm. I don't know most people.

Anyway. Who cares about "most people"?

> And one of the OP's points is that by using tabs for indent, and
> spaces for alignment, you can have the best of both worlds.

I certainly doesn't sound that way.

> Programmers can set their tab size to anything they want, and it still
> looks good

That's anything but true. I see zigzaggy diffs all the time.


Marko
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Re: Tabs for indentation & Spaces for alignment in Python 3?

[Chris Angelico]

On Sun, Dec 7, 2014 at 3:41 AM, Michael Torrie  wrote:
> What dilemma?  Do you mean you can avoid the drama of tabs by going all
> spaces?  Of course in Python this is the recommended course.

Actually it's only one of several recommended courses, but otherwise yes. :)

ChrisA
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Re: Tabs for indentation & Spaces for alignment in Python 3?

[Michael Torrie]

On 12/06/2014 01:40 AM, Marko Rauhamaa wrote:
> Michael Torrie :
> 
>> In fact a decent editor that is auto-indenting code would, at least in
>> C or C++ mode, do that automatically.
> 
> A decent editor frees you from this dilemma entirely:
> 
> (custom-set-variables
>  '(indent-tabs-mode nil))

What dilemma?  Do you mean you can avoid the drama of tabs by going all
spaces?  Of course in Python this is the recommended course.

But that's typically not what I, or most people, use in C or C++.  And
one of the OP's points is that by using tabs for indent, and spaces for
alignment, you can have the best of both worlds.  Programmers can set
their tab size to anything they want, and it still looks good (except of
Linux kernel source code, which only will ever look right at tabs
equivalent to 8 spaces).  He wanted to know if he could still do that in
Python3, and the answer is "yes" although we recommend highly just
sticking to pep8 4 space characters per indent and no tabs whatsoever.

Of course any validly-formatted Python code (or C code) can be made to
look right and work right by running autopep8[1] on it.  Just like
"indent" can make your C code fit whatever style guide you need.

[1] https://pypi.python.org/pypi/autopep8/
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Re: Tabs for indentation & Spaces for alignment in Python 3?

[Marko Rauhamaa]

Michael Torrie :

> In fact a decent editor that is auto-indenting code would, at least in
> C or C++ mode, do that automatically.

A decent editor frees you from this dilemma entirely:

(custom-set-variables
 '(indent-tabs-mode nil))

HT belongs together with VT, SOH and ETB.


Marko
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Re: Tabs for indentation & Spaces for alignment in Python 3?

[Dave Angel]

On 12/05/2014 09:48 PM, Aahan Krish wrote:

Hello Ned, I didn't notice that he was using tabs more than as needed for
indentation. Guess I trusted the wrong guy. :P Anyway, it's one more thing
to keep in mind. G!



Several times now you have started a new thread to comment on an 
existing one.  Please use the reply-list feature of your email program 
or newsgroup reader.


New messages are for new threads.

And while I'm at it, please use text messages.  html messages are wrong 
here for a number of reasons, even though none of them have apparently 
affected your recent messages.

--
DaveA
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Re: Tabs for indentation & Spaces for alignment in Python 3?

[Ned Batchelder]

On 12/5/14 10:04 PM, Michael Torrie wrote:

On 12/05/2014 07:31 PM, Ned Batchelder wrote:

This is a perfect example!  The code (with tabs as >--- and leading
spaces as .) is:

   >---if (!list_empty(pending))
   >--->---ret = list_first_entry(pending, struct async_entry,
   >--->--->--->---...domain_list)->cookie;

Now, display it in your editor with tabs set to four spaces:

   >---if (!list_empty(pending))
   >--->---ret = list_first_entry(pending, struct async_entry,
   >--->--->--->---...domain_list)->cookie;


However, a conscientious programmer knows that tabs could be arbitrarily
sized, so he would never do that.


The Linux kernel style guide makes clear: tabs are not arbitrarily 
sized. In the Linux kernel, they are eight spaces.


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Re: Tabs for indentation & Spaces for alignment in Python 3?

[Michael Torrie]

On 12/05/2014 07:31 PM, Ned Batchelder wrote:
> This is a perfect example!  The code (with tabs as >--- and leading 
> spaces as .) is:
> 
>   >---if (!list_empty(pending))
>   >--->---ret = list_first_entry(pending, struct async_entry,
>   >--->--->--->---...domain_list)->cookie;
> 
> Now, display it in your editor with tabs set to four spaces:
> 
>   >---if (!list_empty(pending))
>   >--->---ret = list_first_entry(pending, struct async_entry,
>   >--->--->--->---...domain_list)->cookie;

However, a conscientious programmer knows that tabs could be arbitrarily
sized, so he would never do that.  Instead he would do:

   >---if (!list_empty(pending))
   >--->---ret = list_first_entry(pending, struct async_entry,
   >--->---...domain_list)->cookie;

Which under the heretical tab size of 4:
   >---if (!list_empty(pending))
   >--->---ret = list_first_entry(pending, struct async_entry,
   >--->---...domain_list)->cookie;

In fact a decent editor that is auto-indenting code would, at least in C
or C++ mode, do that automatically.

Maybe I misread, but I would think this is what the OP had in mind.
Of course maybe kernel programmers think differently.  Ahh well.




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Re: Tabs for indentation & Spaces for alignment in Python 3?

[Aahan Krish]

Hello Ned, I didn't notice that he was using tabs more than as needed for
indentation. Guess I trusted the wrong guy. :P Anyway, it's one more thing
to keep in mind. G!

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Re: Tabs for indentation & Spaces for alignment in Python 3?

[Ned Batchelder]

On 12/5/14 8:50 PM, Aahan Krish wrote:

Hello Ned,

I thought that the use of tabs and spaces in the manner I suggested is
pretty common. Linux Kernel follows the same technique, for example:
https://github.com/torvalds/linux/blob/master/kernel/async.c#L100



This is a perfect example!  The code (with tabs as >--- and leading 
spaces as .) is:


 >---if (!list_empty(pending))
 >--->---ret = list_first_entry(pending, struct async_entry,
 >--->--->--->---...domain_list)->cookie;

Now, display it in your editor with tabs set to four spaces:

 >---if (!list_empty(pending))
 >--->---ret = list_first_entry(pending, struct async_entry,
 >--->--->--->---...domain_list)->cookie;

"domain_list" and "pending" no longer line up, even though the author 
worked so hard to make the code look nice.


In fact, the Linux kernel specifically says that tabs must be eight 
spaces (https://www.kernel.org/doc/Documentation/CodingStyle):


Tabs are 8 characters, and thus indentations are also 8
characters.  There are heretic movements that try to make
indentations 4 (or even 2!) characters deep, and that is akin
to trying to define the value of PI to be 3.

So you've started by trying to use tabs so that people can choose the 
indentation width they like, and ended up with a strict rule that you 
cannot change the size of tabs.


--
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Re: Tabs for indentation & Spaces for alignment in Python 3?

[Aahan Krish]

Hello Ned,

I thought that the use of tabs and spaces in the manner I suggested is
pretty common. Linux Kernel follows the same technique, for example:
https://github.com/torvalds/linux/blob/master/kernel/async.c#L100

Of course, I understand the gist of what you are saying—if people don't
understand this technique properly and start mixing up tabs and spaces
interchangeably or wrongly the code'd get mangled pretty quickly.

Thank you for the heads up!


Best,
Aahan
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Re: Tabs for indentation & Spaces for alignment in Python 3?

[Cameron Simpson]

On 06Dec2014 09:29, Steven D'Aprano  
wrote:

Cameron Simpson wrote:

I have spent too much time reading files indented
with TABs by people using a different tabwidth to my own, and thus looking
aweful on my screen. The original author didn't choose to make it awful,
but their tabs rendered in my tab scheme look awful. And doubtless vice
versa. The root cause of this is that when we, as humans, indent with
tabs, we do it to achieve a certain visual effect; as though a certain
number of spaces were in play.


How is this different from people who achieve a certain visual effect by
indenting with actual spaces?

I've seen people indent with 8 spaces. I've seen people indent with 2
spaces. I've even seen people indent with a single space per level. I
haven't seen anyone indent with 17 spaces, but I suppose it's only a matter
of time...

I don't see how reading code indented with tabs configured for 8/4/2/1
spaces is *worse* than reading tab indented with 8/4/2/1 spaces.


Because the author will have chosen a scheme not too insane. But when I pull up 
their indented-with-2-or-4-tab files in my tab==8 editor, it looks terrible.  
When I pull up their indented-with-spaces in whatever scheme, it looks as good 
or bad as their judgement, which even when tasteless is usually better than 
overwide tabs.


I would rather not have to readjust my editor's tab spacing every time I load 
up a file from someone-who-is-not-me. If they use spaces, I don't have to. If 
they use tabs and do not indent like I do, I have to to keep things readable.


Cheers,
Cameron Simpson 

They shouldn't get any new nuclear weapons until they've used the ones
they've got.- Murff
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Re: Tabs for indentation & Spaces for alignment in Python 3?

[Ian Kelly]

On Fri, Dec 5, 2014 at 11:49 AM, Aahan Krish  wrote:
>
> Hello Ian,
>
> So, wrt Q2, what you are saying is, the following would cause issues in
Python 3?
>
> int f(int x,
> ..int y) {
> --->return g(x,
> --->.y);
> }
>
> Where:
>
> ---> for tabs (used for indentation)
>  for spaces (used for alignment)

That example should be fine, I think (if it were actually Python  and not
C, that is). The second line is a continuation of the first line, so the
preceding whitespace isn't indentation and doesn't matter. Likewise for the
fourth line. So the only line with any actual indentation there is the
third line.
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Re: Tabs for indentation & Spaces for alignment in Python 3?

[Steven D'Aprano]

Cameron Simpson wrote:

> I have spent too much time reading files indented
> with TABs by people using a different tabwidth to my own, and thus looking
> aweful on my screen. The original author didn't choose to make it awful,
> but their tabs rendered in my tab scheme look awful. And doubtless vice
> versa. The root cause of this is that when we, as humans, indent with
> tabs, we do it to achieve a certain visual effect; as though a certain
> number of spaces were in play.

How is this different from people who achieve a certain visual effect by
indenting with actual spaces?

I've seen people indent with 8 spaces. I've seen people indent with 2
spaces. I've even seen people indent with a single space per level. I
haven't seen anyone indent with 17 spaces, but I suppose it's only a matter
of time...

I don't see how reading code indented with tabs configured for 8/4/2/1
spaces is *worse* than reading tab indented with 8/4/2/1 spaces.




-- 
Steven

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Re: Tabs for indentation & Spaces for alignment in Python 3?

[Ned Batchelder]

On 12/5/14 1:49 PM, Aahan Krish wrote:

Hello Ian,

So, wrt Q2, what you are saying is, the following would cause issues in
Python 3?

 int f(int x,
 ..int y) {
 --->return g(x,
 --->.y);
 }

Where:

---> for tabs (used for indentation)
 for spaces (used for alignment)


(Aside from the fact that that isn't Python syntax *at all*), Python 3 
would be OK with that indentation. It wouldn't be OK with mixed tabs and 
spaces where the meaning depends on the indent width of a tab, but here 
it does not.


I sincerely hope no one is seriously considering trying to maintain code 
using a mix of tabs and spaces like that.  That's a nightmare.


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Re: Tabs for indentation & Spaces for alignment in Python 3?

[Ned Batchelder]

On 12/5/14 12:40 PM, Aahan Krish wrote:

I have two general questions regarding Python that I couldn't find any
good answers for. This is not the often-asked Tabs vs Spaces question,
so kindly read it in whole.

*Q1.* This is not to debate the decision, but I really wanted to know
the reason why PEP 8 chose to go with spaces instead of tabs. I read
that tabs were initially preferred over spaces (esp. Mr. Rossum)? What
caused the decision that spaces are better?

According to Core Python Programming (Book):

...because tabs vary in the number of spaces depending on your
system, we recommend not using tabs if there is any hint of
cross-platform development.


Isn't that a feature of tabs? (i.e. allowing the user to configure the
size of a tab stop in his editor, which has no affect whatsoever on the
tab character itself or how it displays in another user's editor.)


But you can't configure the width of tabs in all the places you look at 
code (printing, online repos, diff viewers, etc, etc).


Others have mentioned the awkward nature of over-indented continuation 
lines.


My feeling is that if you are working with others who feel strongly 
enough about differing indent widths that they need to use tabs so they 
can each have their own way, then you probably have bigger collaboration 
issues.


Use four spaces, and be done with it.  Agree with your team members on 
how your code will look, then innovate on the important things.


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Re: Tabs for indentation & Spaces for alignment in Python 3?

[Cameron Simpson]

On 05Dec2014 17:40, Aahan Krish  wrote:

*Q1.* This is not to debate the decision, but I really wanted to know the
reason why PEP 8 chose to go with spaces instead of tabs. I read that tabs
were initially preferred over spaces (esp. Mr. Rossum)? What caused the
decision that spaces are better?


Essentially because the space is always the same.


According to Core Python Programming (Book):
...because tabs vary in the number of spaces depending on your system, we

recommend not using tabs if there is any hint of cross-platform development.


Isn't that a feature of tabs? (i.e. allowing the user to configure the size
of a tab stop in his editor, which has no affect whatsoever on the tab
character itself or how it displays in another user's editor.)


Yes, but in practice it causes varying degrees of pain.

Ideally, the various pieces of code have differing indents and that would be 
specified entirely with tabs. In practice, (1) people mix them and (2) people 
make other formatting decisions based on the rendering width of tabs in 
whatever editor they're using at the time, particularly with multiline strings 
such as docstrings.


There are two common approaches to TABs: the purists who uses TABs entirely so 
that other users can align the code as they see fit, and the pragmatists who 
configure their editors to accept the TAB _keystroke_ and have it insert spaces 
according to their tab convention.


I'm in the latter category; I have spent too much time reading files indented 
with TABs by people using a different tabwidth to my own, and thus looking 
aweful on my screen. The original author didn't choose to make it awful, but 
their tabs rendered in my tab scheme look awful. And doubtless vice versa. The 
root cause of this is that when we, as humans, indent with tabs, we do it to 
achieve a certain visual effect; as though a certain number of spaces were in 
play.


So my editor is configured to accept the tab key for convenience of typing, but 
to insert spaces.


Cheers,
Cameron Simpson 

In My Egotistical Opinion, most people's C programs should be indented six
feet downward and covered with dirt.- Blair P. Houghton
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Re: Tabs for indentation & Spaces for alignment in Python 3?

[Chris Angelico]

On Sat, Dec 6, 2014 at 4:40 AM, Aahan Krish  wrote:
> I have two general questions regarding Python that I couldn't find any good
> answers for. This is not the often-asked Tabs vs Spaces question, so kindly
> read it in whole.
>
> Q1. This is not to debate the decision, but I really wanted to know the
> reason why PEP 8 chose to go with spaces instead of tabs. I read that tabs
> were initially preferred over spaces (esp. Mr. Rossum)? What caused the
> decision that spaces are better?

The decisions in PEP 8 govern the Python standard library *only*. For
any other project, you're free to say "We'll follow PEP 8 but using
tabs for indentation" or "We'll follow PEP 8 but use three spaces for
indentation". (Yes, you're free to be utterly insane.)

Personally, I prefer and recommend tabs for indentation. That way, if
there's any argument about how wide indents ought to be, the
belligerents can simply reconfigure them. But ultimately, there's very
little difference between "use tabs" and "use four spaces" and "use
eight spaces" and "use two spaces" (though I'd put them in that
order); the most important thing is to choose *something* and stick
with it.

Oh, and get yourself an editor that tells you when you've mucked them
up. SciTE does; a little blue line fills the indent if it's wrong
compared to the previous one. I work with a lot of students who use
Sublime, have it set to show tabs as four spaces wide, and then have
no idea why their code isn't working. Hmm. I guess "alias
python='python -tt'" would be a good thing, here.

ChrisA
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Re: Tabs for indentation & Spaces for alignment in Python 3?

[sohcahtoa82]

On Friday, December 5, 2014 9:47:10 AM UTC-8, Aahan Krish wrote:
> I have two general questions regarding Python that I couldn't find any good 
> answers for. This is not the often-asked Tabs vs Spaces question, so kindly 
> read it in whole.
> 
> Q1. This is not to debate the decision, but I really wanted to know the 
> reason why PEP 8 chose to go with spaces instead of tabs. I read that tabs 
> were initially preferred over spaces (esp. Mr. Rossum)? What caused the 
> decision that spaces are better?
> 
> According to Core Python Programming (Book):
> 
> ...because tabs vary in the number of spaces depending on your system, we 
> recommend not using tabs if there is any hint of cross-platform development.
> 
> Isn't that a feature of tabs? (i.e. allowing the user to configure the size 
> of a tab stop in his editor, which has no affect whatsoever on the tab 
> character itself or how it displays in another user's editor.)
> 
> Is it the difficulty to adhere to the Maximum Line Length (79) when using 
> tabs? or is it simply because most of the Python programmers were using 
> spaces (or were adamant on using them) at the time of the decision-making 
> process?
> 

The problem comes when people use tabs for aligning code when a single 
statement spans multiple lines.  For example let's say your tabs are 4 spaces, 
and you have this block of code:

if someCondition:
someVariable = someFunction(parameter1, parameter2, parameter3,
parameter4, parameter5)

If you align the third line (the one with parameter4 and parameter5) with more 
than 1 tab, then someone with their tab size set to something other than 4 
spaces won't see the aligned code.

Of course, the correct solution *IF YOU ARE USING TABS FOR INDENTATION* is to 
indent that third line with a SINGLE tab, then use a bunch of spaces to align 
the code.  This way, even if someone else has their tab size set to 8 spaces, 
they still see aligned code.

So using spaces instead of tabs is a way of preventing the code aligning issue. 
 The downside, of course, is that it forces everyone to use the same number of 
spaces for indentation, which results in a different argument of how many 
spaces should be used, which of course is a different discussion entirely, 
another dead horse to beat.

It of course is worth mentioning at this point that any editor that is worth 
using can be configured to insert spaces when you press the TAB key, and the 
number of spaces being configurable.  So even if you're using spaces, you can 
still use the TAB key.  Even the 'nano' editor for *nix can do this.  I 
frequently see a lot of beginner programmers using the argument that hitting 
the space bar 4-8 times (Depending on agreed tab size) is wasteful as an 
argument for tabs.
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Re: Tabs for indentation & Spaces for alignment in Python 3?

[Aahan Krish]

Hello Ian,

So, wrt Q2, what you are saying is, the following would cause issues in
Python 3?

int f(int x,
..int y) {
--->return g(x,
--->.y);
}

Where:

---> for tabs (used for indentation)
 for spaces (used for alignment)


Best
Aahan
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Re: Tabs for indentation & Spaces for alignment in Python 3?

[Ian Kelly]

On Fri, Dec 5, 2014 at 10:40 AM, Aahan Krish  wrote:
> Q2. PEP 8 also reads, "Python 3 disallows mixing the use of tabs and
spaces for indentation."
>
> So, if I am using tabs for indentation and spaces for alignment, is it
still considered "mixing the use of tabs and spaces" in Python 3? (Please
see this example.)

No, you can mix tabs and spaces as long as you do so consistently within a
block, i.e. if one line is indented with  then the next
line in the same block had better start with that same exact sequence. The
difference is that Python 2 when trying to compare indentation will treat a
tab as equal to 8 spaces (or was it 4?) which can lead to situations where
the relative indentation of two lines looks one way to the programmer but
is lexed a different way by the interpreter. Python 3 resists the
temptation to guess in this situation and simply raises an error.
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Tabs for indentation & Spaces for alignment in Python 3?

[Aahan Krish]

I have two general questions regarding Python that I couldn't find any good
answers for. This is not the often-asked Tabs vs Spaces question, so kindly
read it in whole.

*Q1.* This is not to debate the decision, but I really wanted to know the
reason why PEP 8 chose to go with spaces instead of tabs. I read that tabs
were initially preferred over spaces (esp. Mr. Rossum)? What caused the
decision that spaces are better?

According to Core Python Programming (Book):

...because tabs vary in the number of spaces depending on your system, we
> recommend not using tabs if there is any hint of cross-platform development.
>

Isn't that a feature of tabs? (i.e. allowing the user to configure the size
of a tab stop in his editor, which has no affect whatsoever on the tab
character itself or how it displays in another user's editor.)

Is it the difficulty to adhere to the Maximum Line Length (79) when using
tabs? or is it simply because most of the Python programmers were using
spaces (or were adamant on using them) at the time of the decision-making
process?

*Q2.* PEP 8 also reads, "Python 3 disallows mixing the use of tabs and
spaces for indentation."

So, if I am using tabs for indentation and spaces for alignment, is it
still considered "mixing the use of tabs and spaces" in Python 3? (Please
see this example
.)

Thank you very much for your time!


Best
Aahan
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