Re: This thread is closed [an actual new thread]
Ethan Furman writes: > On 10/01/2018 04:26 PM, Ben Finney wrote: > > If there is some specific formal meaning to the above statement, I > > don't know where it's documented. If it's not a specific formal > > statement, that is itself troubling, because it's not clear what > > would constitute a violation nor what the consequences are. > > Consider it now documented, at least on Python List. I imagine Python > Ideas may also implement this framework (assuming we stay on Mail Man > and don't migrate to some web-based forum). Thank you. I don't want to imply an obligation for others, but I suggest it will be (beyond the short term) less painful for future thread-closing actions if that is documented in an official document at a known web page URL. So every time a moderator closes a thread, the message announcing that action can simply say "see for what this means". -- \ “Drop your trousers here for best results.” —dry cleaner, | `\ Bangkok | _o__) | Ben Finney -- https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: This thread is closed [an actual new thread]
On 10/02/2018 03:46 AM, Rhodri James wrote: On 02/10/18 01:02, Ethan Furman wrote: It should be interpreted as: - No further discussion should take place on this thread. - I've done what I can with the primitive tools at hand to block any further discussion. - Continued considerate posts will be discarded. - Continued flame-bait/inconsiderate posts will be met with warnings or stronger as warranted. On what grounds are you suppressing debate? It is exactly and precisely not irrelevant to Python, since it's discussing a Python-specific change to known and understood computing terminology, and frankly the statement "Continued considerate posts will be discarded" is outrageous. As soon as personal or group attacks start taking place (at least, as soon as such posts are noticed), that thread will be shut down. As I said, the tools are primitive and more precise actions are not available. I have been unimpressed with the moderation team for some weeks now, but this is just not acceptable. I'm sorry you feel that way. The goal is to have an environment where we can all help/be helped by others, primarily with Python. Attacks on others do not help that [1]. -- ~Ethan~ Python List Moderator -- https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: This thread is closed [an actual new thread]
On Tue, Oct 2, 2018 at 4:50 AM Rhodri James wrote: > > On what grounds are you suppressing debate? It is exactly and precisely > not irrelevant to Python, since it's discussing a Python-specific change > to known and understood computing terminology, and frankly the statement > "Continued considerate posts will be discarded" is outrageous. To be fair, it went four days without any posts before being closed, so I'd say it was already dead at that point anyway. > I have been unimpressed with the moderation team for some weeks now, but > this is just not acceptable. Note I'm not expressing an opinion on any specific decision by the moderators, but I for one would like to welcome the more proactive moderation being employed recently. This group, which was originally unmoderated, at one time had a reputation for having a respectful and welcoming community. To my experience, that has not been the case for years now. Self-policing is no longer working when the self-appointed police are among the greatest offenders, at the ready to declare somebody a troll and therefore fair game at the slightest disagreement. The archives contain piles upon pile of centithreads of inane bickering on topics like "what is a variable, precisely" that are no different than arguing about the number of angels that can dance on the head of a pin. And while I haven't actually done it yet, I can't count on one hand the number of times I've been disgusted by the toxic tone so prevalent here and nearly unsubscribed. Whether or not you think the moderators are doing a good job, there's no doubt in my mind that moderation is sorely needed here and long overdue. -- https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: This thread is closed [an actual new thread]
On 2018-10-02, Rhodri James wrote: > On 02/10/18 01:02, Ethan Furman wrote: > On what grounds are you suppressing debate? It is exactly and precisely > not irrelevant to Python, since it's discussing a Python-specific change > to known and understood computing terminology, and frankly the statement Agreed. > "Continued considerate posts will be discarded" is outrageous. Agreed. > I have been unimpressed with the moderation team for some weeks now, but > this is just not acceptable. Agreed. -- Grant Edwards grant.b.edwardsYow! The SAME WAVE keeps at coming in and COLLAPSING gmail.comlike a rayon MUU-MUU ... -- https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: This thread is closed [an actual new thread]
On 02/10/2018 11:46, Rhodri James wrote: On 02/10/18 01:02, Ethan Furman wrote: On 10/01/2018 04:26 PM, Ben Finney wrote: > Ethan Furman writes: >> This thread is closed. > > Coming from a moderator of this forum, I don't know how that statement > is to be interpreted. It should be interpreted as: - No further discussion should take place on this thread. - I've done what I can with the primitive tools at hand to block any further discussion. - Continued considerate posts will be discarded. - Continued flame-bait/inconsiderate posts will be met with warnings or stronger as warranted. On what grounds are you suppressing debate? It is exactly and precisely not irrelevant to Python, since it's discussing a Python-specific change to known and understood computing terminology, and frankly the statement "Continued considerate posts will be discarded" is outrageous. I have been unimpressed with the moderation team for some weeks now, but this is just not acceptable. +1 from me there seems to be a considerable humour deficit in some quarters. The language is called python and is named after Monty Python's Flying Circus (https://docs.python.org/2/faq/general.html#why-is-it-called-python). Apparently we now also have the Spanish Inquisition :) -- Robin Becker -- https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: This thread is closed [an actual new thread]
On 02/10/18 01:02, Ethan Furman wrote: On 10/01/2018 04:26 PM, Ben Finney wrote: > Ethan Furman writes: >> This thread is closed. > > Coming from a moderator of this forum, I don't know how that statement > is to be interpreted. It should be interpreted as: - No further discussion should take place on this thread. - I've done what I can with the primitive tools at hand to block any further discussion. - Continued considerate posts will be discarded. - Continued flame-bait/inconsiderate posts will be met with warnings or stronger as warranted. On what grounds are you suppressing debate? It is exactly and precisely not irrelevant to Python, since it's discussing a Python-specific change to known and understood computing terminology, and frankly the statement "Continued considerate posts will be discarded" is outrageous. I have been unimpressed with the moderation team for some weeks now, but this is just not acceptable. -- Rhodri James *-* Kynesim Ltd -- https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: This thread is closed [an actual new thread]
On 10/01/2018 04:26 PM, Ben Finney wrote: > Ethan Furman writes: >> This thread is closed. > > Coming from a moderator of this forum, I don't know how that statement > is to be interpreted. It should be interpreted as: - No further discussion should take place on this thread. - I've done what I can with the primitive tools at hand to block any further discussion. - Continued considerate posts will be discarded. - Continued flame-bait/inconsiderate posts will be met with warnings or stronger as warranted. > Is that a statement that it is *impossible* (mechanically) to post > replies in this thread? Across the different technologies that > propogate this forum? Not impossible, no. > If not impossible, is that a statement that it is *strictly prohibited*, by a forum moderator, to post replies in this thread? If one tries to get around moderators' efforts to shut down a thread we will interpret that harshly. > If prohibited, what are we to expect are the consequences of breaching > that prohibition, knowingly or unknowingly? Two factors come into play: 1) do we think the post was done knowingly or unknowingly; and 2) the content of the post. > How is any of the above affected by posting in the same thread but on > a different matter, as I have done? At this point the blocks are entirely based on subject lines (like I said, primitive). If the new subject line still matches the relevant regex, then it will get held and we will decide what to do with it (I allowed this one as it had good questions -- in general, just start a new thread if the subject is different, as I did in this reply). > How is any of the above affected by changing the Subject field, as I > have done? If the subject is different enough it will get by the block. If the content is still on the old subject we will consider that as willfully ignoring the thread closure. > If there is some specific formal meaning to the above statement, I > don't know where it's documented. If it's not a specific formal > statement, that is itself troubling, because it's not clear what would > constitute a violation nor what the consequences are. Consider it now documented, at least on Python List. I imagine Python Ideas may also implement this framework (assuming we stay on Mail Man and don't migrate to some web-based forum). > Ethan, I thank you for doing the fraught work of a moderator of this > forum. Hopefully we can get clarity on this and future thread-closing > actions, separate from the thread which prompted this instance. Let me know if anything is still unclear. -- ~Ethan~ -- https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
