Re: Tkinter--does anyone use it for sophisticated GUI development?
From:James Stroud [EMAIL PROTECTED] To:python-list@python.org Date:Thu, 19 Oct 2006 20:34:26 GMT Subject:Re: Tkinter--does anyone use it for sophisticated GUI development? Kevin Walzer wrote: I'm a Tcl/Tk developer who has been working, slowly, at learning Python, in part because Python has better support for certain kinds of applications that I want to develop than Tcl/Tk does. Naturally, I thought that I would use Tkinter as the GUI for these programs. However, in doing research into GUI development techniques, sample code, and showcase applications, what has struck me is how little sophisticated GUI development seems to be done in Tkinter as compared to, say, wxPython. I've found plenty of tutorials on how to do basic GUI stuff with Tkinter, but that stuff pretty much ends with the core Tk widgets (buttons, entry fields, scrollbars, and menu items). Coming from Tcl/Tk, where there are a huge number of extension packages to enhance the Tk widgets and which allow you to make really polished GUI's, I'm struck mainly by how little of this stuff has made it over into Tkinter/Python. For instance, I've developed several Tcl applications that use the core Tk widgets, the Tile theming package, the Bwidget set (great tree widget and listbox, which allows you to embed images), and tablelist (an extremely flexible muti-column listbox display). I've found Python wrappers for some of this stuff, but almost no documentation on how to use them, and very little in the way of actual applications making use of them--which is itself a red flag. And most of the pure-Python extension stuff that I've found, such as Python megawidgets, is pretty dated/ugly and lags far behind the comparable stuff on the Tcl side. Am I better off biting the bullet and learning wxPython--a different GUI paradigm to go with the new language I'm trying to learn? I had hoped to reduce my learning curve, but I'm very concerned that I simply can't do what I want to do with Tkinter. What do other Tkinter developers think? I've used Tkinter + bwidgets for Crescendo which you can find in this page http://godson.auroinfo.com/downloads you can look at the screen shots of Crescendo there. We have a wrapper for Tile written by Franklin a long time ago but his site is down currently. here is the google cached version of that page http://72.14.209.104/search?hl=enq=cache%3Ahttp%3A%2F%2Fmfranklin.is-a-geek.org%2Fdocs%2FTile%2Findex.htmlbtnG=Searchmeta= Bwidgets wrapper of python has not all widgets that Bwidgets offers, i've tried changing the file __init__.py its pretty easy. Regards, Godson. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Tkinter--does anyone use it for sophisticated GUI development?
Peter Decker: Now that I've discovered Dabo, which wraps wxPython, hiding the C++ ugliness under a very Pythonic API, I have the best of both worlds. I get to code naturally, and the results look great. With some cleaning and improving, I think wax (http://zephyrfalcon.org/labs/wax.html ) can become good too. Bye, bearophile -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Tkinter--does anyone use it for sophisticated GUI development?
sturlamolden wrote: Its also a pity that no one didnt do something based on OpenGL with python (or maybe im wrong) it could be cool and really cross-platform. You are wrong. There are PyOpenGL and there is cross-platform GUI and game development platforms that use it (PyGTK, wxPython, PyGame). There are also PyOgre, which are more pythonic than using OpenGL directly. I ment in the GUI context , a widget-based api where you can put buttons, labels etc. on a form. Not an advanced 3D stuff which is useless for such application. Something like : http://www.cs.unc.edu/~rademach/glui/ http://glow.sourceforge.net/ and sdl based http://www.paragui.org/ but none have Python support (or again maybe im wrong) -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Tkinter--does anyone use it for sophisticated GUI development?
On 2006-10-22, Wektor [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I ment in the GUI context , a widget-based api where you can put buttons, labels etc. on a form. Not an advanced 3D stuff which is useless for such application. Something like : and sdl based http://www.paragui.org/ but none have Python support (or again maybe im wrong) PyGame for SDL, I think. -- Neil Cerutti -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Tkinter--does anyone use it for sophisticated GUI development?
On 22 Oct 2006 02:40:17 -0700, [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: With some cleaning and improving, I think wax (http://zephyrfalcon.org/labs/wax.html ) can become good too. I looked at Wax, but the author doesn't seem to be too involved with it. It looks like a cool idea that he developed far enough to make it work, and then got bored with it. I mean hell, there isn't even a workable grid class that does anything differently than the wxPython grid does! Dabo's implementation is already llight years ahead of Wax, despite entering the game much later. When you've worked with lots of open source projects, you can tell which are actively being developed and which are dead or comatose; you can tell which have a growing community and which are stagnant; you can tell which are worth investing your time into learning and/or contributing to, and which are dead-ends. Wax feels like a real dead-end to me. -- # p.d. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Tkinter--does anyone use it for sophisticated GUI development?
Wektor wrote: I ment in the GUI context , a widget-based api where you can put buttons, labels etc. on a form. You mean GTK? GTK 2.8 uses an abstraction layer for drawing widgets called Cairo. Cairo can use OpenGL or Quartz as backends (still experimental). Thus, you can get a hardware-accelerated GUI from PyGTK if you are willing to use an experimental backend in Cairo. http://cairographics.org/ -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Tkinter--does anyone use it for sophisticated GUI development?
Peter Decker wrote: When you've worked with lots of open source projects, you can tell which are actively being developed and which are dead or comatose; you can tell which have a growing community and which are stagnant; you can tell which are worth investing your time into learning and/or contributing to, and which are dead-ends. Wax feels like a real dead-end to me. Can you also tell when you're wrong? I checked out Wax last week for the first time; I hit a snag and got an answer from the lead developer within a day, along with a pointer to the latest dev version. But don't let communication get in the way of that six sense you've got going there :) - alex23 -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Tkinter--does anyone use it for sophisticated GUI development?
On 22 Oct 2006 17:26:55 -0700, alex23 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Can you also tell when you're wrong? I checked out Wax last week for the first time; I hit a snag and got an answer from the lead developer within a day, along with a pointer to the latest dev version. But don't let communication get in the way of that six sense you've got going there :) I've been following Wax for over two years. You can count the number of new features that have been added to it in that time on one hand. Hans is a great guy and has written some great stuff, but Wax is but a small side project of his. I'm sure he'll support it excellently, but I don't think I would hold my breath waiting for him to him to release a grid that does, say, 1/10th of what the Dabo grid can do. -- # p.d. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Tkinter--does anyone use it for sophisticated GUI development?
Christophe wrote: Nobody mentionned it, but I think you should try PyQT and PyGTK before wxPython. Myself, I do not like wx : it looks too much like the MFC. PyGTK is good, but GTK doesn't work that well on windows. GTK and PyGTK works well on Windows now. GTK used to be unstable on Windows, but that has been taken care of. I would not use anything else but PyGTK for GUI development in Python. Go here to get the Windows port: http://www.mapr.ucl.ac.be/~gustin/win32_ports/ With PyGTK and GLADE, the GUI can be designed in GLADE and imported as an XML-resource (using libglade). It saves us of all the tedious GUI-programming. All that is needed is the event handlers, which we obviously have to code. When they are done, we simply put references to them in a dictionary, and tell libglade to dispacth on it. All the GUI programming crap is hidden away. Since there is no actual GUI code in Python, it also makes maintenance and upgrading much easier: The GUI can be redesigned in GLADE without affecting the Python code. Have you ever tried to change anything in an MFC project with Visual C++? It's a nightmare. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Tkinter--does anyone use it for sophisticated GUI development?
sturlamolden wrote: Christophe wrote: Nobody mentionned it, but I think you should try PyQT and PyGTK before wxPython. Myself, I do not like wx : it looks too much like the MFC. PyGTK is good, but GTK doesn't work that well on windows. GTK and PyGTK works well on Windows now. GTK used to be unstable on Windows, but that has been taken care of. I would not use anything else but PyGTK for GUI development in Python. Go here to get the Windows port: http://www.mapr.ucl.ac.be/~gustin/win32_ports/ With PyGTK and GLADE, the GUI can be designed in GLADE and imported as an XML-resource (using libglade). It saves us of all the tedious GUI-programming. All that is needed is the event handlers, which we obviously have to code. When they are done, we simply put references to them in a dictionary, and tell libglade to dispacth on it. All the GUI programming crap is hidden away. Since there is no actual GUI code in Python, it also makes maintenance and upgrading much easier: The GUI can be redesigned in GLADE without affecting the Python code. Have you ever tried to change anything in an MFC project with Visual C++? It's a nightmare. I'm a Mac developer--Gtk does not run natively on the Mac (i.e. as an Aqua framework), only under X11. So that's a non-starter for me. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Tkinter--does anyone use it for sophisticated GUI development?
I'm a Mac developer--Gtk does not run natively on the Mac (i.e. as an Aqua framework), only under X11. So that's a non-starter for me. Besides the excellent PyObjc-bridge that of course only works for Mac-only-development, you might consider PyQt. Biggest drawback: the GPL-license. But feature-wise, it beats IMHO all other toolkits. It looks pretty well under OSX. Not absolutely perfect, but certainly better that the alternatives. Google earth for example is created with it, at least in the Mac-incarnation. Diez -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Tkinter--does anyone use it for sophisticated GUI development?
Kevin Walzer wrote: sturlamolden wrote: Christophe wrote: Nobody mentionned it, but I think you should try PyQT and PyGTK before wxPython. Myself, I do not like wx : it looks too much like the MFC. PyGTK is good, but GTK doesn't work that well on windows. GTK and PyGTK works well on Windows now. GTK used to be unstable on Windows, but that has been taken care of. I would not use anything else but PyGTK for GUI development in Python. Go here to get the Windows port: http://www.mapr.ucl.ac.be/~gustin/win32_ports/ With PyGTK and GLADE, the GUI can be designed in GLADE and imported as an XML-resource (using libglade). It saves us of all the tedious GUI-programming. All that is needed is the event handlers, which we obviously have to code. When they are done, we simply put references to them in a dictionary, and tell libglade to dispacth on it. All the GUI programming crap is hidden away. Since there is no actual GUI code in Python, it also makes maintenance and upgrading much easier: The GUI can be redesigned in GLADE without affecting the Python code. Have you ever tried to change anything in an MFC project with Visual C++? It's a nightmare. I'm a Mac developer--Gtk does not run natively on the Mac (i.e. as an Aqua framework), only under X11. So that's a non-starter for me. You have 2 choices then wxWidgets or Qt. wx has also graphical editors like Glade (there is a wxGlade project) giving a xml description of a window and its cross platform. I know there are graphical for Qt but i dont know if theyre giving xml or are just code-generators. You could also do gui in Java or .Net and use python with their native interpreter (jython is a bit outdated but IronPython is online) You can also use a local web app with one of cool Python'ish web frameworks -- id suggest TurboGears, but you can choose from many ill mention Django (which is i think the biggest rival for TG) On the other hand its a pity that there isnt much choice in cross platform (win mac lin) GUI platforms until now i was a great fan of GTK but there isnt a proper port for Mac. Its also a pity that no one didnt do something based on OpenGL with python (or maybe im wrong) it could be cool and really cross-platform. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Tkinter--does anyone use it for sophisticated GUI development?
Kevin Walzer wrote: I'm a Mac developer--Gtk does not run natively on the Mac (i.e. as an Aqua framework), only under X11. So that's a non-starter for me. GTK is skinnable and can look a lot like Aqua. Qt is also just pretending to be a native Aqua toolkit (or used to), but it is very good at it. That leaves you with wxPython (utterly ugly API, remninds me of MFC and Motif), PyQt (very expensive unless GPL is not a show stopper) or PyObjC. http://pyobjc.sourceforge.net/ http://pyobjc.sourceforge.net/doc/tutorial.php If you are willing to use Jython, you can get a native Aqua GUI from Java. Does at GUI really have to be native? I never hear anyone complain about the looks of Microsoft Office or Mozilla Firefox on Windows, although neither have a native GUI. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Tkinter--does anyone use it for sophisticated GUI development?
Wektor wrote: wx has also graphical editors like Glade (there is a wxGlade project) giving a xml description of a window and its cross platform. If you are thinking about XRC, then beware that this XML don't solve any problems, it just creates another. XRC and libglade do not compare. libglade makes the GUI development easy and the program code clean and easy to read. XRC makes the GUI development difficult and the program code convoluted and difficult to read. Also wxGlade is not GLADE. In particular, wxGlade is unstable and tend to crash or do stupid things. But if your oalternative is to hand-code the wxPython GUI, then wxGLADE is nevertheless the better option. On the other hand its a pity that there isnt much choice in cross platform (win mac lin) GUI platforms until now i was a great fan of GTK but there isnt a proper port for Mac. GTK is being ported to Aqua, but the port it is in its early stages. Its also a pity that no one didnt do something based on OpenGL with python (or maybe im wrong) it could be cool and really cross-platform. You are wrong. There are PyOpenGL and there is cross-platform GUI and game development platforms that use it (PyGTK, wxPython, PyGame). There are also PyOgre, which are more pythonic than using OpenGL directly. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Tkinter--does anyone use it for sophisticated GUI development?
Wektor wrote: wx has also graphical editors like Glade (there is a wxGlade project) giving a xml description of a window and its cross platform. If you are thinking about XRC, then beware that this XML don't solve any problems, it just creates another. XRC and libglade do not compare. libglade makes the GUI development easy and the program code clean and easy to read. XRC makes the GUI development difficult and the program code convoluted and difficult to read. Also wxGlade is not GLADE. In particular, wxGlade is unstable and tend to crash or do stupid things. But if your alternative is to hand-code the wxPython GUI, then wxGLADE is nevertheless the better option. On the other hand its a pity that there isnt much choice in cross platform (win mac lin) GUI platforms until now i was a great fan of GTK but there isnt a proper port for Mac. GTK is being ported to Aqua, but the port it is in its early stages. Its also a pity that no one didnt do something based on OpenGL with python (or maybe im wrong) it could be cool and really cross-platform. You are wrong. There are PyOpenGL and there is cross-platform GUI and game development platforms that use it (PyGTK, wxPython, PyGame). There are also PyOgre, which are more pythonic than using OpenGL directly. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Tkinter--does anyone use it for sophisticated GUI development?
pygtk can be a pain to install and some of the librarys that are built on top of it have copyrights and such. apple for the fonts and there is one for the images. It also can be a pain to install.. It would be nice to see it as a low cost comercial package that is already put together say $20 or so then to try to workout a distribution for some of that. (but then I believe apple should buy borland). I think sci-pi (If I have the name right) would be a very good platform to extend gtk. A) it is well documentated B) they made it as easy as possible to install. pywin might have some acess to graphics but it is windows only and the documentation is sparce. http://www.dexrow.com sturlamolden wrote: Wektor wrote: wx has also graphical editors like Glade (there is a wxGlade project) giving a xml description of a window and its cross platform. If you are thinking about XRC, then beware that this XML don't solve any problems, it just creates another. XRC and libglade do not compare. libglade makes the GUI development easy and the program code clean and easy to read. XRC makes the GUI development difficult and the program code convoluted and difficult to read. Also wxGlade is not GLADE. In particular, wxGlade is unstable and tend to crash or do stupid things. But if your alternative is to hand-code the wxPython GUI, then wxGLADE is nevertheless the better option. On the other hand its a pity that there isnt much choice in cross platform (win mac lin) GUI platforms until now i was a great fan of GTK but there isnt a proper port for Mac. GTK is being ported to Aqua, but the port it is in its early stages. Its also a pity that no one didnt do something based on OpenGL with python (or maybe im wrong) it could be cool and really cross-platform. You are wrong. There are PyOpenGL and there is cross-platform GUI and game development platforms that use it (PyGTK, wxPython, PyGame). There are also PyOgre, which are more pythonic than using OpenGL directly. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Tkinter--does anyone use it for sophisticated GUI development?
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: pygtk can be a pain to install and some of the librarys that are built on top of it have copyrights and such. apple for the fonts and there is one for the images. It also can be a pain to install.. It would be nice to see it as a low cost comercial package that is already put together say $20 or so then to try to workout a distribution for some of that. On Windows, there are two installers you need to download: One for PyGTK and one for GLADE + the GTK runtime. Double-click on the installers and wheeey ... everything works. http://www.mapr.ucl.ac.be/~gustin/win32_ports/pygtk.html http://gladewin32.sourceforge.net/modules/news/ If you cannot make this work, your computer skills are at level that makes me amazed that you have any use for a programming language... (but then I believe apple should buy borland). I think sci-pi (If I have the name right) would be a very good platform to extend gtk. A) it is well documentated B) they made it as easy as possible to install. pywin might have some acess to graphics but it is windows only and the documentation is sparce. SciPy is a toolset for scientific programming in Python. It does not contain any graphics stuff. SciPy depends on NumPy (formerly SciPy core), which is the bleeding edge package for numerical programming in Python. If you need to scientific datavisualization in Python, you should take a look at Matplotlib, which also depends on NumPy. Matplotlib can use a number of backends for displaying graphs, including PyGTK. I routinely use Matplotlib to draw graphs in my PyGTK apps on MS Windows. This jus requires two or three installs: NumPy, Matplotlib and (optionally) SciPy. But you don't need this packages unless you are doing heavy scientific or numeric programming. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Tkinter--does anyone use it for sophisticated GUI development?
Kevin Walzer [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: For instance, I've developed several Tcl applications that use the core Tk widgets, the Tile theming package, the Bwidget set (great tree widget and listbox, which allows you to embed images), and tablelist (an extremely flexible muti-column listbox display). I tried to look for a python-library when I started using tablelist. The only link I found was quite dead. I spent a day or two while learning how to do a minimal (i.e. only those methods that I have needed) implementation from scratch :( It seems to work quite well for my purposes. I've found Python wrappers for some of this stuff, but almost no documentation on how to use them Is there sufficient documentation for the Tcl/Tk libraries that the wrappers have been coded for? At least with Tkinter and Tix it is usually quite obvious what is the corresponding python method if you know the Tcl/Tk counterpart. Jani Hakala -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Tkinter--does anyone use it for sophisticated GUI development?
On 21 Oct 2006 08:26:56 -0700, sturlamolden [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: That leaves you with wxPython (utterly ugly API, remninds me of MFC and Motif), PyQt (very expensive unless GPL is not a show stopper) or PyObjC. I too hated the wxPython API, but loved how it looked. And since I need things to run cross-platform (in my case, Linux and Windows), I held my breath and coded in wxPython, because the results were well worth it. Now that I've discovered Dabo, which wraps wxPython, hiding the C++ ugliness under a very Pythonic API, I have the best of both worlds. I get to code naturally, and the results look great. -- # p.d. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Tkinter--does anyone use it for sophisticated GUI development?
Does anyone use it for sophisticated GUI development? I have seen a very sophisticated admin tool written in Tkinter, coming from SAP. So apparently SAP does. Seo Sanghyeon -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Tkinter--does anyone use it for sophisticated GUI development?
Paul Rubin http://[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: There's a language called Picolisp in which this is the standard way to do a gui. Picolisp includes a java applet that can do some stuff that standard html widgets can't. These days I suppose it should use AJAX. Yes, in fact it does. The currently active testing version http://www.software-lab.biz/1024/?downloadpicoLisp.tgz also has a plain HTML GUI, enhanced by XMLHttpRequests, in a way that it works transparently in browsers with or without JavaScript enabled. We are using it in all our current projects. - Alex -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
RE: Tkinter--does anyone use it for sophisticated GUI development?
-Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] rg] On Behalf Of Fredrik Lundh Sent: 20 October 2006 06:43 To: python-list@python.org Subject: Re: Tkinter--does anyone use it for sophisticated GUI development? Kevin Walzer wrote: Coming from Tcl/Tk, where there are a huge number of extension packages to enhance the Tk widgets and which allow you to make really polished GUI's, I'm struck mainly by how little of this stuff has made it over into Tkinter/Python. For instance, I've developed several Tcl applications that use the core Tk widgets, the Tile theming package, the Bwidget set (great tree widget and listbox, which allows you to embed images), and tablelist (an extremely flexible muti-column listbox display). I've found Python wrappers for some of this stuff, but almost no documentation on how to use them, and very little in the way of actual applications making use of them--which is itself a red flag. on the other hand, such wrappers are usually extremely simple, and the mapping between Python and Tk is trivial. there's simply not much to add to the existing Tk module docs. Am I better off biting the bullet and learning wxPython--a different GUI paradigm to go with the new language I'm trying to learn? that's almost designed to get wx rul3z d00d replies from the wx crowd. let's see if they bite. Weell, I'm in no position to evangelise it, but alongised other things for the past two or three weeks I've been looking into different gui building tools for python, wxDesigner, BoaConstructor, pythonCard and a couple of others using both tkInter and wxPython. I've given up trying to find a good one who's method of operation was quick to pick up, and I've since written the basics of my GUI by hand in TkInter and now wxPython (was doing that last night as it goes). ..aand so far wxPython is winning easily on the hand-coded front, especially once you find the demo package and use it. TkInter took me 3 or 4 days without help to work out and build what I needed. WxPython took an evening and 1 usenet post. And I think it looks much nicer. I've yet to see what happens with the event loop of either when I start to use the threaded scheduler I need in the app but hey... Matt. (in wrong place to get to google groups again.. As always apologies for appended text) -- This email is confidential and may be privileged. If you are not the intended recipient please notify the sender immediately and delete the email from your computer. You should not copy the email, use it for any purpose or disclose its contents to any other person. Please note that any views or opinions presented in this email may be personal to the author and do not necessarily represent the views or opinions of Digica. It is the responsibility of the recipient to check this email for the presence of viruses. Digica accepts no liability for any damage caused by any virus transmitted by this email. UK: Phoenix House, Colliers Way, Nottingham, NG8 6AT UK Reception Tel: + 44 (0) 115 977 1177 Support Centre: 0845 607 7070 Fax: + 44 (0) 115 977 7000 http://www.digica.com SOUTH AFRICA: Building 3, Parc du Cap, Mispel Road, Bellville, 7535, South Africa Tel: + 27 (0) 21 957 4900 Fax: + 27 (0) 21 948 3135 http://www.digica.com -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Tkinter--does anyone use it for sophisticated GUI development?
James Stroud wrote: Also, look at my modest program at passerby.sf.net. Not so sophisticated, but not completely simple either. I did look at passerby--a nice app, and in a native Mac OS X version also! (I'm a Mac developer.) Thanks for the pointer. -- Kevin Walzer Poetic Code http://www.kevin-walzer.com -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Tkinter--does anyone use it for sophisticated GUI development?
Fredrik Lundh wrote: on the other hand, such wrappers are usually extremely simple, and the mapping between Python and Tk is trivial. there's simply not much to add to the existing Tk module docs. I think I might simply have to bite the bullet, actually use some of these documented wrappers, perhaps even tweak/improve them, and then release something that shows what's possible with them. And perhaps even write up some user-friendly docs. :-) Am I better off biting the bullet and learning wxPython--a different GUI paradigm to go with the new language I'm trying to learn? that's almost designed to get wx rul3z d00d replies from the wx crowd. let's see if they bite. That certainly wasn't my intention. What do other Tkinter developers think? Those people who have nothing better to do than post on the Internet all day long are rarely the ones who have the most insights if you want to reach Tkinter developers, the following forum might be more appropriate: http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/tkinter-discuss that list is more focussed on solving specific problems, though; Tkinter developers just don't seem very interested in arguments about world domination. guess we've inherited that from the Tcl world, or maybe we're just too busy doing stuff ;-) I subscribe to that list. I agree that this particular question is off-topic for that list. By way of clarification, one of the things I have in mind in terms of sophisticated GUI's can be found on these pages at the Tcl'ers wiki: http://wiki.tcl.tk/13636 This page is focused on Tcl/Tk apps using the Tile extension, but many of these apps also use extensions like Tablelist and Tktreectrl. I haven't seen any shiny screenshots of Python apps using these extensions yet. Another example, that doesn't use Tile, is PgAccess: http://www.pgaccess.org/index.php?page=NewPgAccessEnglish This app makes use of BWidgets and Tablelist, in particular, to good effect. This gives you some idea of the target I'm aiming at, anyway. -- Kevin Walzer Poetic Code http://www.kevin-walzer.com/software/ -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Tkinter--does anyone use it for sophisticated GUI development?
Kevin Walzer a écrit : Am I better off biting the bullet and learning wxPython--a different GUI paradigm to go with the new language I'm trying to learn? I had hoped to reduce my learning curve, but I'm very concerned that I simply can't do what I want to do with Tkinter. What do other Tkinter developers think? Nobody mentionned it, but I think you should try PyQT and PyGTK before wxPython. Myself, I do not like wx : it looks too much like the MFC. PyGTK is good, but GTK doesn't work that well on windows. PyQT is very good but you need Qt4 to get a free version for Windows. And it is GPL so it might not be what you are looking for. Or you can pay for it and get the non GPL version. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Tkinter--does anyone use it for sophisticated GUI development?
Kevin Walzer wrote: I'm a Tcl/Tk developer who has been working, slowly, at learning Python, in part because Python has better support for certain kinds of applications that I want to develop than Tcl/Tk does. Naturally, I thought that I would use Tkinter as the GUI for these programs. However, in doing research into GUI development techniques, sample code, and showcase applications, what has struck me is how little sophisticated GUI development seems to be done in Tkinter as compared to, say, wxPython. I've found plenty of tutorials on how to do basic GUI stuff with Tkinter, but that stuff pretty much ends with the core Tk widgets (buttons, entry fields, scrollbars, and menu items). Coming from Tcl/Tk, where there are a huge number of extension packages to enhance the Tk widgets and which allow you to make really polished GUI's, I'm struck mainly by how little of this stuff has made it over into Tkinter/Python. For instance, I've developed several Tcl applications that use the core Tk widgets, the Tile theming package, the Bwidget set (great tree widget and listbox, which allows you to embed images), and tablelist (an extremely flexible muti-column listbox display). I've found Python wrappers for some of this stuff, but almost no documentation on how to use them, and very little in the way of actual applications making use of them--which is itself a red flag. And most of the pure-Python extension stuff that I've found, such as Python megawidgets, is pretty dated/ugly and lags far behind the comparable stuff on the Tcl side. Am I better off biting the bullet and learning wxPython--a different GUI paradigm to go with the new language I'm trying to learn? I had hoped to reduce my learning curve, but I'm very concerned that I simply can't do what I want to do with Tkinter. What do other Tkinter developers think? Tkinter is certainly dated (?), worst than PMW which is built upon it. But what do you what/need? I use , and am making my students use Tkinter for a web multiu-user client-server game. The Canvas is a great object, but you have to write the code yourself, if you want a special look. Eye-candy, Tkinter ain't, and it doesn't have a lot of sophisticated widgets (again ?) . I wanted a tabbed pane last year and made myself one (not the exact look of others, but functional if what you want is multiple frames of widgets for each tab; the table widget took quite a bit of doing, also and it's not an Excel spreadsheet) I do know that people are impressed by glitz and glamour (And I don't have a nice tree (with picture) widget) But all of this does forget that Tkinter is still in the standard library, while all others are third-party add-ons... so there is a extra hassle with them... So, what do You want? (widgets, criterias etc) Jean-Marc -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Tkinter--does anyone use it for sophisticated GUI development?
Paul Rubin wrote: I have yet to see a gui toolkit which doesn't suck. I'm not sure why that is. Have you seen PyGUI? It's my attempt at creating a GUI toolkit for Python that doesn't suck. I'd be interested to know if you think I've come anywhere near to succeeding. http://www.cosc.canterbury.ac.nz/greg.ewing/python_gui/ -- Greg -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Tkinter--does anyone use it for sophisticated GUI development?
Paul Rubin wrote: I have yet to see a gui toolkit which doesn't suck. I'm not sure why that is. Have you seen PyGUI? It's my attempt at creating a GUI toolkit for Python that doesn't suck. I'd be interested to know if you think I've come anywhere near to succeeding. http://www.cosc.canterbury.ac.nz/greg.ewing/python_gui/ -- Greg -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Tkinter--does anyone use it for sophisticated GUI development?
greg [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Have you seen PyGUI? It's my attempt at creating a GUI toolkit for Python that doesn't suck. I'd be interested to know if you think I've come anywhere near to succeeding. http://www.cosc.canterbury.ac.nz/greg.ewing/python_gui/ I hadn't seen it. I just spent a couple minutes looking at the docs. I didn't really get that much sense of what it's like. I may look at it some more later. However, like tkinter, it seems pretty low level. I do like that it doesn't rely on the user knowing anything about a completely separate language, in order to program the gui from Python. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Tkinter--does anyone use it for sophisticated GUI development?
I'm a Tcl/Tk developer who has been working, slowly, at learning Python, in part because Python has better support for certain kinds of applications that I want to develop than Tcl/Tk does. Naturally, I thought that I would use Tkinter as the GUI for these programs. However, in doing research into GUI development techniques, sample code, and showcase applications, what has struck me is how little sophisticated GUI development seems to be done in Tkinter as compared to, say, wxPython. I've found plenty of tutorials on how to do basic GUI stuff with Tkinter, but that stuff pretty much ends with the core Tk widgets (buttons, entry fields, scrollbars, and menu items). Coming from Tcl/Tk, where there are a huge number of extension packages to enhance the Tk widgets and which allow you to make really polished GUI's, I'm struck mainly by how little of this stuff has made it over into Tkinter/Python. For instance, I've developed several Tcl applications that use the core Tk widgets, the Tile theming package, the Bwidget set (great tree widget and listbox, which allows you to embed images), and tablelist (an extremely flexible muti-column listbox display). I've found Python wrappers for some of this stuff, but almost no documentation on how to use them, and very little in the way of actual applications making use of them--which is itself a red flag. And most of the pure-Python extension stuff that I've found, such as Python megawidgets, is pretty dated/ugly and lags far behind the comparable stuff on the Tcl side. Am I better off biting the bullet and learning wxPython--a different GUI paradigm to go with the new language I'm trying to learn? I had hoped to reduce my learning curve, but I'm very concerned that I simply can't do what I want to do with Tkinter. What do other Tkinter developers think? -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Tkinter--does anyone use it for sophisticated GUI development?
Kevin Walzer wrote: I'm a Tcl/Tk developer who has been working, slowly, at learning Python, in part because Python has better support for certain kinds of applications that I want to develop than Tcl/Tk does. Naturally, I thought that I would use Tkinter as the GUI for these programs. However, in doing research into GUI development techniques, sample code, and showcase applications, what has struck me is how little sophisticated GUI development seems to be done in Tkinter as compared to, say, wxPython. I've found plenty of tutorials on how to do basic GUI stuff with Tkinter, but that stuff pretty much ends with the core Tk widgets (buttons, entry fields, scrollbars, and menu items). Coming from Tcl/Tk, where there are a huge number of extension packages to enhance the Tk widgets and which allow you to make really polished GUI's, I'm struck mainly by how little of this stuff has made it over into Tkinter/Python. For instance, I've developed several Tcl applications that use the core Tk widgets, the Tile theming package, the Bwidget set (great tree widget and listbox, which allows you to embed images), and tablelist (an extremely flexible muti-column listbox display). I've found Python wrappers for some of this stuff, but almost no documentation on how to use them, and very little in the way of actual applications making use of them--which is itself a red flag. And most of the pure-Python extension stuff that I've found, such as Python megawidgets, is pretty dated/ugly and lags far behind the comparable stuff on the Tcl side. Am I better off biting the bullet and learning wxPython--a different GUI paradigm to go with the new language I'm trying to learn? I had hoped to reduce my learning curve, but I'm very concerned that I simply can't do what I want to do with Tkinter. What do other Tkinter developers think? Its used in pymol. Also, look at my modest program at passerby.sf.net. Not so sophisticated, but not completely simple either. James -- James Stroud UCLA-DOE Institute for Genomics and Proteomics Box 951570 Los Angeles, CA 90095 http://www.jamesstroud.com/ -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Tkinter--does anyone use it for sophisticated GUI development?
wxPython is much more powerful and flexible. I would suggest moving more in that direction. On Oct 19, 3:29 pm, Kevin Walzer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I'm a Tcl/Tk developer who has been working, slowly, at learning Python, in part because Python has better support for certain kinds of applications that I want to develop than Tcl/Tk does. Naturally, I thought that I would use Tkinter as the GUI for these programs. However, in doing research into GUI development techniques, sample code, and showcase applications, what has struck me is how little sophisticated GUI development seems to be done in Tkinter as compared to, say, wxPython. I've found plenty of tutorials on how to do basic GUI stuff with Tkinter, but that stuff pretty much ends with the core Tk widgets (buttons, entry fields, scrollbars, and menu items). Coming from Tcl/Tk, where there are a huge number of extension packages to enhance the Tk widgets and which allow you to make really polished GUI's, I'm struck mainly by how little of this stuff has made it over into Tkinter/Python. For instance, I've developed several Tcl applications that use the core Tk widgets, the Tile theming package, the Bwidget set (great tree widget and listbox, which allows you to embed images), and tablelist (an extremely flexible muti-column listbox display). I've found Python wrappers for some of this stuff, but almost no documentation on how to use them, and very little in the way of actual applications making use of them--which is itself a red flag. And most of the pure-Python extension stuff that I've found, such as Python megawidgets, is pretty dated/ugly and lags far behind the comparable stuff on the Tcl side. Am I better off biting the bullet and learning wxPython--a different GUI paradigm to go with the new language I'm trying to learn? I had hoped to reduce my learning curve, but I'm very concerned that I simply can't do what I want to do with Tkinter. What do other Tkinter developers think? -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Tkinter--does anyone use it for sophisticated GUI development?
Kevin Walzer [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Am I better off biting the bullet and learning wxPython--a different GUI paradigm to go with the new language I'm trying to learn? I had hoped to reduce my learning curve, but I'm very concerned that I simply can't do what I want to do with Tkinter. What do other Tkinter developers think? I haven't yet found the need to switch to wxPython. Tkinter is something of a least common denominator and as such it's been ok for the stuff I've used it for. However, tkinter's unpopularity is well grounded: - Tk widgets have their own look, which is both non-native and IMO ugly - limited widget set, especially the widgets included with python - clumsy programming interface (but wxpython is also clumsy) If you look at IDLE (the fanciest Tkinter app I've examined) the code is near incomprehensible. I have yet to see a gui toolkit which doesn't suck. I'm not sure why that is. Sometimes instead of a gui, I put a local http server into the app, and connect to it with a browser. Then I do the whole gui in html. This has many advantages and often not that much of a downside. There's a language called Picolisp in which this is the standard way to do a gui. Picolisp includes a java applet that can do some stuff that standard html widgets can't. These days I suppose it should use AJAX. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Tkinter--does anyone use it for sophisticated GUI development?
Kevin Walzer wrote: Coming from Tcl/Tk, where there are a huge number of extension packages to enhance the Tk widgets and which allow you to make really polished GUI's, I'm struck mainly by how little of this stuff has made it over into Tkinter/Python. For instance, I've developed several Tcl applications that use the core Tk widgets, the Tile theming package, the Bwidget set (great tree widget and listbox, which allows you to embed images), and tablelist (an extremely flexible muti-column listbox display). I've found Python wrappers for some of this stuff, but almost no documentation on how to use them, and very little in the way of actual applications making use of them--which is itself a red flag. on the other hand, such wrappers are usually extremely simple, and the mapping between Python and Tk is trivial. there's simply not much to add to the existing Tk module docs. Am I better off biting the bullet and learning wxPython--a different GUI paradigm to go with the new language I'm trying to learn? that's almost designed to get wx rul3z d00d replies from the wx crowd. let's see if they bite. What do other Tkinter developers think? Those people who have nothing better to do than post on the Internet all day long are rarely the ones who have the most insights if you want to reach Tkinter developers, the following forum might be more appropriate: http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/tkinter-discuss that list is more focussed on solving specific problems, though; Tkinter developers just don't seem very interested in arguments about world domination. guess we've inherited that from the Tcl world, or maybe we're just too busy doing stuff ;-) /F -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list