Re: When someone from Britain speaks, Americans hear a British accent...
On Fri, 7 Oct 2005 15:28:24 -0500, Terry Hancock [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Friday 07 October 2005 03:01 am, Steve Holden wrote: OK, so how do you account for the execresence That will give you a savings of 20%, which usage is common in America? In America, anyway, savings is a collective abstract noun (like physics or mechanics), there's no such noun as saving (that's present participle of to save only). How did you expect that sentence to be rendered? Why is it an execresence? By the way, dict.org doesn't think execresence is a word, although I interpret the neologism as meaning something like execrable utterance: dict.org said: No definitions found for 'execresence'! Gotta be something to do with .exe ;-) Regards, Bengt Richter -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: When someone from Britain speaks, Americans hear a British accent...
On Sat, 08 Oct 2005 07:55:59 GMT, Dennis Lee Bieber [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Fri, 07 Oct 2005 21:24:35 +1000, Steven D'Aprano [EMAIL PROTECTED] declaimed the following in comp.lang.python: I think where the people are getting confused is that it is (arguably) acceptable to use their in place of his or her, as in: Should the purchaser lose their warranty card... It gets even stranger... One should be prompt in mailing their warranty registration That comes after parents buy some toys for their children, and the children have posession of both the toys and the associated warranty cards. Of course if one is a parent who worries about warranties in a circumstance such as this, One should be prompt in mailing their[1] warranty registration [1] The childrens' ;-) Regards, Bengt Richter -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: When someone from Britain speaks, Americans hear a British accent...
On Mon, 10 Oct 2005 15:46:34 -0500, Terry Hancock [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Saturday 08 October 2005 04:35 am, Steve Holden wrote: I must have been working at NASA at the time; they are well known for embiggening prices. Not nearly as much as the DoD, from what I hear. Truthfully, I think those stories are bit exaggerated -- I think the real problem is somebody making a bad make/buy decision. They decide to make something that they could easily have bought at the hardware store. Typically, it was a $30 hammer with $270 worth of paperwork attached. The famous $10k Toilet Seat is actually a bit of an interesting tale. The part in question is the toilet from a C5A transport . . not something you can purchase at the local Home Depot. Being an aircraft toilet, it's crammed into a tiny space and has to be as light as possible and all the things you associate with aircraft toilets. When they were speccing the project, the airframe manufacturer included some number of spare toilet seats in the bid, given the expected life of the airframe. Some faceless bureaucrat decided that they didn't NEED any spare toilet seats and cancelled that line item. Lo and Behold, they eventually needed spare toilet seats. But because of Another Good Regulation (tm) the tooling had been recycled. Recreating the tooling to make the spares was, amortized over the number ordered, around $10k/seat. Compared to the tooling costs, subsequent orders of the same seat are pretty much free . . . at least until some bozo in Ring A decides to toss the tooling again. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: When someone from Britain speaks, Americans hear a British accent...
On 2005-10-10, Terry Hancock [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I must have been working at NASA at the time; they are well known for embiggening prices. Not nearly as much as the DoD, from what I hear. Truthfully, I think those stories are bit exaggerated -- I think the real problem is somebody making a bad make/buy decision. They decide to make something that they could easily have bought at the hardware store. That and the combination of low volumes and the cost of testing. They want something seemingly simple (say a hammer), but they want it tested and certified to a particular set of functional and environmental specs. That takes literally man-years of effort, and then they only end up buying 3 of them. The cost of the testing gets divided by three and added onto the unit cost. -- Grant Edwards grante Yow! Jesus is my at POSTMASTER GENERAL... visi.com -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: When someone from Britain speaks, Americans hear a British accent...
On 2005-10-10, Terry Hancock [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Cool. While we're on the topic, has anybody else noticed that guys is acceptible and commonly used to refer to a group of women, Yeah, though it depends on where you are. I assumed you could tell that from my accent. :) Likewise, dude is often used when addressing a female but almost never when speaking about one in the third person. This I have never witnessed. That's bizarre. At least in the upper midwest it seems quite common for teen-age boys/girls to address each other as dude. For example Dude, you have got to go to the concert with us. But, if somebody refers to that dude over there in the blue jaket, the dude is invariably a male. -- Grant Edwards grante Yow! I am NOT a nut at visi.com -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: When someone from Britain speaks, Americans hear a British accent...
On Tuesday 11 October 2005 09:37 am, Grant Edwards wrote: On 2005-10-10, Terry Hancock [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Likewise, dude is often used when addressing a female but almost never when speaking about one in the third person. This I have never witnessed. That's bizarre. At least in the upper midwest it seems quite common for teen-age boys/girls to address each other as dude. For example Dude, you have got to go to the concert with us. Ah, well, isn't that just replacing man? It's not really a form of address at all -- it's an emphasis particle, like yo in Japanese, or any number of curse words in English. I bet you'll find sentences where an address doesn't make sense at all. Hell no! for example, has nothing to do with Christian mythology, it's just a lot stronger than No!. When you translate that into Japanese, might you use Dame yo! instead of Dame! for example, Japanese recognizes these as part of its formal grammar, but ISTM that they exist informally in English, too. -- Terry Hancock ( hancock at anansispaceworks.com ) Anansi Spaceworks http://www.anansispaceworks.com -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: When someone from Britain speaks, Americans hear a British accent...
On Saturday 08 October 2005 04:35 am, Steve Holden wrote: I must have been working at NASA at the time; they are well known for embiggening prices. Not nearly as much as the DoD, from what I hear. Truthfully, I think those stories are bit exaggerated -- I think the real problem is somebody making a bad make/buy decision. They decide to make something that they could easily have bought at the hardware store. Naturally, any time you make a one-off part, it costs something awful. That's the real reason that, say, Apollo was so expensive. Nearly every part was a one-off prototype. If you get used to that almost always being the case, it shouldn't be so surprising that somebody forgets to check to see if the odd part *can* be sourced commercially. Of course, making one-off parts isn't nearly as hard today as it was in 1965, so that's interesting too. Sorry for the digression, but the real story behind things like that is kind of interesting, IMHO. ;-) And I think the original joke is pretty dead by now. ;-) -- Terry Hancock ( hancock at anansispaceworks.com ) Anansi Spaceworks http://www.anansispaceworks.com -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: When someone from Britain speaks, Americans hear a British accent...
On Friday 07 October 2005 05:28 pm, Grant Edwards wrote: Cool. While we're on the topic, has anybody else noticed that guys is acceptible and commonly used to refer to a group of women, Yeah, though it depends on where you are. but the singular guy is never used to refer to a single woman (and most of the women I've asked think that gal or gals is insulting). Again, that depends on where you're at, I think. Likewise, dude is often used when addressing a female but almost never This I have never witnessed. That's bizarre. when speaking about one in the third person. The question was a bit broken, it did not list all y'all and its most glaring omission was yous guys The Philly responders selected the next best option of yous I don't think all y'all is really a plural you form -- it's just agreement between modifier and pronoun. Since all describes a group, the 2nd person pronoun must be plural y'all. Now, I obviously haven't been everywhere (;-)), but in my experience, All y'all is used only to explicitly include a larger group, rather than a smaller one. In other words, it's just as you would use all of you in proper English. ;-) -- Terry Hancock ( hancock at anansispaceworks.com ) Anansi Spaceworks http://www.anansispaceworks.com -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: When someone from Britain speaks, Americans hear a British accent...
On Fri, 7 Oct 2005 15:57:14 -0500, Terry Hancock [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: In a Texas dialect, their is construed to mean singular third person of indeterminate gender. It's considered rude to use it to apply to a sentient, and his or her is PC (and therefore a great sin ;-) ). Working in a hospital, it always jars when a patient of unknown sex is referred to as It. I always use they/them/their, so it's not unique to Texas. DaveM -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: When someone from Britain speaks, Americans hear a British accent...
Steve Holden wrote: Steve Horsley wrote: [...] The one that always makes me grit my teeth is You have got to, don't you?. Well no, I do NOT got to, actually. Shudder! Shouldn't that be I don't have to got to? regards Steve Yes it should. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: When someone from Britain speaks, Americans hear a British accent...
Terry Hancock wrote: On Friday 07 October 2005 03:44 pm, Steve Holden wrote: Precisely because there *is* such a thing as a saving. If I buy a $100 gumball for $80 I have achieved a saving of 20%. Nope, that's incorrect American. ;-) You can say I bought a $100 gumball for $80, saving 20%, or If I buy a $100 gumball for $80, I have achieved a savings of 20%. (Although, you lose points for style with achieved, and those are awfully expensive gumballs). ;-) I must have been working at NASA at the time; they are well known for embiggening prices. regards Steve -- Steve Holden +44 150 684 7255 +1 800 494 3119 Holden Web LLC www.holdenweb.com PyCon TX 2006 www.python.org/pycon/ -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: When someone from Britain speaks, Americans hear a British accent...
Steve Holden wrote: ... Or is the green tomato also unacceptable? Of course it is. We all know* it should be the green fried tomato, or the killer tomato. :-) (is it me, or is the subject line for this thread silly? After all, what accent would you expect from someone in the UK? However, that said, the concept of a *single* British accent is a silly as the idea. Sillier even than the suggestion that the two lines below are British vs American: American: Minnesota is behind 7-0. The Vikings are behind 7-0. British: Minnesota are behind 7-0. The Vikings are behind 7-0. Or even these lines: American: The war department has decided to cancel the program. British: The war department have decided to cancel the program. A better one might be: British: They installed tunnelling for the petrol pipes made of grey coloured aluminium. American: They installed tunneling for the gas pipes made of gray colored aluminum. (I think :-) I do my best with grammar, but can fail spectactularly, more often than I'd like :) Bad grammar flies at the same speed as the pedants who decide that the way that other people talk is wrong. If the majority of people use a language one way, and a small number of people say you're wrong, who's right? Is it the people who speak the language in a shared way that they all understand, or the people who are setting rules based on how people *used* to speak and *used* to define words? (NB, I *did* say majority above ;-) Does /human/ language _require_ backwards compatibility? ;-) Michael. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: When someone from Britain speaks, Americans hear a British accent...
Terry Hancock wrote: Well, yeah, although the correct pronunciation is apparently te-tra-HEE-dra-GON. As opposed to a te-tra-SHE-dra-GON ? ;-) Michael. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: When someone from Britain speaks, Americans hear a British accent...
Steve Holden wrote: Then again, there's room for infinite disagreement about these topics. I mentioned a while ago that I disliked the English on a bumper sticker I liked, which read Some village in Texas is missing their idiot. Several people defended this, saying that a village could use the plural possessive their. I personally found it odd (and essentially non-grammatical) not because either the singular or plural forms should be mandated but because this one manages to mix them up. So Some village in Texas are missing their idiot would be better (though it sounds like the kind of thing only the idiot alluded to would say), while my preferred choice would be Some village in Texas is missing its idiot. Strangely, the one that scans most naturally to me is the first one. Maybe its because the sentence starts by talking of a village in Texas singular point on a map, but the idiot in the second half is one of many inhabitants who have noticed his absence. Yes, it is mixing singular and plural from a syntactic point of view, but not so badly after interepretation into mental images. The one that always makes me grit my teeth is You have got to, don't you?. Well no, I do NOT got to, actually. Shudder! Steve, Brung up in norf London. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: When someone from Britain speaks, Americans hear a British accent...
Steve Horsley wrote: [...] The one that always makes me grit my teeth is You have got to, don't you?. Well no, I do NOT got to, actually. Shudder! Shouldn't that be I don't have to got to? regards Steve -- Steve Holden +44 150 684 7255 +1 800 494 3119 Holden Web LLC www.holdenweb.com PyCon TX 2006 www.python.org/pycon/ -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: When someone from Britain speaks, Americans hear a British accent...
On Fri, 07 Oct 2005 00:33:43 -, Grant Edwards [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 2005-10-06, DaveM [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Frankly, I can't watch Shakespeare or movies like the full monty or trainspotting because I can't understand a damn word they say. British talk sounds like gibberish to me for the most part. Not just you. It always amuses me in trips to the US that British voices (outside of the movies) are often subtitled, while first-generation Americans whose English is. um, limited, are not. What?!? I've never seen a British voice (inside or outside of the movies) subtitled -- with the exception of one of a nightclub scenes in one movie (I think it was Trainspotting) where the dialog was inaudible because of the music. I noticed this watching news footage rather than imported shows. I haven't seen 'Trainspotting', but I have seen Scottish accents subtitled (unnecessarily) on English TV, to understandable anger across the border - so this isn't uniquely a US phenomenon, to be fair. snip For example: In British English one uses a plural verb when the subject consists of more than one person. Sports teams, government departments, states, corporations etc. are grammatically plural. In American, the verb agrees with the word that is the subject, not how many people are denoted by that word. In sports (thats sport for you Brits): Yes. American: Minnesota is behind 7-0. The Vikings are behind 7-0. British: Minnesota are behind 7-0. The Vikings are behind 7-0. True. In politics: American: The war department has decided to cancel the program. British: The war department have decided to cancel the program. Not sure about this one. They may be used interchangeably as neither strikes me as sounding odd. DaveM -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: When someone from Britain speaks, Americans hear a British accent...
DaveM wrote: On Fri, 07 Oct 2005 00:33:43 -, Grant Edwards [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: [...] For example: In British English one uses a plural verb when the subject consists of more than one person. Sports teams, government departments, states, corporations etc. are grammatically plural. In American, the verb agrees with the word that is the subject, not how many people are denoted by that word. In sports (thats sport for you Brits): OK, so how do you account for the execresence That will give you a savings of 20%, which usage is common in America? There aren't any universal rules, except possibly British people speak English while Americans don't. Nowadays relatively few people on either side of the Atlantic even know the difference between a collective noun and a plural, so there's little hope of them being able to correctly apply any rule there might be (and yes, I split that infinitive just to annoy any pedants who may be reading). Yes. American: Minnesota is behind 7-0. The Vikings are behind 7-0. British: Minnesota are behind 7-0. The Vikings are behind 7-0. True. In politics: American: The war department has decided to cancel the program. British: The war department have decided to cancel the program. Not sure about this one. They may be used interchangeably as neither strikes me as sounding odd. Then again, there's room for infinite disagreement about these topics. I mentioned a while ago that I disliked the English on a bumper sticker I liked, which read Some village in Texas is missing their idiot. Several people defended this, saying that a village could use the plural possessive their. I personally found it odd (and essentially non-grammatical) not because either the singular or plural forms should be mandated but because this one manages to mix them up. So Some village in Texas are missing their idiot would be better (though it sounds like the kind of thing only the idiot alluded to would say), while my preferred choice would be Some village in Texas is missing its idiot. Then again, what can you expect from a country whose leader pronounces nuclear as though it were spelled nucular? I suppose it's only a matter of time before they change the spelling just like they did with aluminium. tongue-in-cheek-ly y'rs - steve -- Steve Holden +44 150 684 7255 +1 800 494 3119 Holden Web LLC www.holdenweb.com PyCon TX 2006 www.python.org/pycon/ -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: When someone from Britain speaks, Americans hear a British accent...
On Fri, 07 Oct 2005 09:01:21 +0100, Steve Holden wrote: and yes, I split that infinitive just to annoy any pedants who may be reading *Real* pedants will know that English is not Latin, does not follow the grammatical rules of Latin, and that just because split infinitives are impossible -- not forbidden, impossible -- in Latin is no reason to forbid them in English. The linguist Steven Pinker calls the sort of people who claim split infinitives are bad English language mavens, and he doesn't mean it as a compliment. See, for example, chapter 12 in his book The Language Instinct. [snip] Some village in Texas is missing their idiot. Several people defended this, saying that a village could use the plural possessive their. Several people being the idiots missed by the villages? :-) I personally found it odd (and essentially non-grammatical) not because either the singular or plural forms should be mandated but because this one manages to mix them up. So Some village in Texas are missing their idiot would be better (though it sounds like the kind of thing only the idiot alluded to would say), Absolutely. Some villages would work, but not village singular. while my preferred choice would be Some village in Texas is missing its idiot. Yes, that's the puppy. I think where the people are getting confused is that it is (arguably) acceptable to use their in place of his or her, as in: Should the purchaser lose their warranty card... Some of the more conservative grammarians argue against that construction, many accept it in informal speech or writing but not formal, and a few (like myself!) argue that it is time to get with the 21st century and just accept it even in formal language. If it was good enough for Willie Shakespeare, it is good enough for me. -- Steven. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: When someone from Britain speaks, Americans hear a British accent...
[Steve] and yes, I split that infinitive just to annoy any pedants who may be reading [Steven] *Real* pedants will know that English is not Latin, does not follow the grammatical rules of Latin, and that just because split infinitives are impossible -- not forbidden, impossible -- in Latin is no reason to forbid them in English. Your previous post to this thread was chock-full of split nominatives: The Hollywood voice, the specific regional accent, the English-speaking world, the original French. And you call yourself a grammarian. -- Richie Hindle [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: When someone from Britain speaks, Americans hear a British accent...
Richie Hindle wrote: [Steve] and yes, I split that infinitive just to annoy any pedants who may be reading [Steven] *Real* pedants will know that English is not Latin, does not follow the grammatical rules of Latin, and that just because split infinitives are impossible -- not forbidden, impossible -- in Latin is no reason to forbid them in English. Your previous post to this thread was chock-full of split nominatives: The Hollywood voice, the specific regional accent, the English-speaking world, the original French. And you call yourself a grammarian. I am presuming this post was meant to be a joke? No smileys, though, so you force us to make up our own minds. Or is the green tomato also unacceptable? regards Steve -- Steve Holden +44 150 684 7255 +1 800 494 3119 Holden Web LLC www.holdenweb.com PyCon TX 2006 www.python.org/pycon/ -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: When someone from Britain speaks, Americans hear a British accent...
[Richie] Your previous post to this thread was chock-full of split nominatives: The Hollywood voice, the specific regional accent, the English-speaking world, the original French. And you call yourself a grammarian. [Steve] I am presuming this post was meant to be a joke? It was. No smileys, though, so you force us to make up our own minds. Yes. 8-) Or is the green tomato also unacceptable? It ought to be considered unacceptable by people who think that to correctly apply is unacceptable, which is the point that Stephen was making: *Real* pedants will know that English is not Latin, does not follow the grammatical rules of Latin, and that just because split infinitives are impossible -- not forbidden, impossible -- in Latin is no reason to forbid them in English. Split nominatives like the green tomato are also impossible in Latin, but no-one seems to object to their use in English. -- Richie Hindle [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: When someone from Britain speaks, Americans hear a British accent...
Steve Holden wrote: On Fri, 07 Oct 2005 00:33:43 -, Grant Edwards [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: For example: In British English one uses a plural verb when the subject consists of more than one person. Sports teams, government departments, states, corporations etc. are grammatically plural. In American, the verb agrees with the word that is the subject, not how many people are denoted by that word. There aren't any universal rules, except possibly British people speak English while Americans don't. I believe you overgeneralize. :) A Welshman would likely be offended if you implied he spoke English, and the Scots are notorious for only speaking English when they have too. (I remember a news story some years back about a Scottish lad who was fined/imprisoned for replying to an official court representative with Aye rather than Yes.) For that matter there are plenty of people in Cornwall and even in London (Cockney) who speak something that is only called English for lack of a better term. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: When someone from Britain speaks, Americans hear a British accent...
On 2005-10-07, DaveM [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: For example: In British English one uses a plural verb when the subject consists of more than one person. Sports teams, government departments, states, corporations etc. are grammatically plural. In American, the verb agrees with the word that is the subject, not how many people are denoted by that word. In sports (thats sport for you Brits): Yes. American: Minnesota is behind 7-0. The Vikings are behind 7-0. British: Minnesota are behind 7-0. The Vikings are behind 7-0. True. In politics: American: The war department has decided to cancel the program. British: The war department have decided to cancel the program. Not sure about this one. They may be used interchangeably as neither strikes me as sounding odd. It could be that both are used in British English and I only notice the have usage. In US English it's always has because deptartment is considered singular: departement has and departements have For some reason I find this sort of thing fascinating enough to have download the entire story of English series off Usenet... -- Grant Edwards grante Yow! Yow! Now we can at become alcoholics! visi.com -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: When someone from Britain speaks, Americans hear a British accent...
On 2005-10-07, Steve Holden [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: In sports (thats sport for you Brits): OK, so how do you account for the execresence That will give you a savings of 20%, which usage is common in America? Dunno. Like much else in English (both American and British) that's just the way it is. Then again, there's room for infinite disagreement about these topics. Which makes it an ideal Usenet thread. :) I mentioned a while ago that I disliked the English on a bumper sticker I liked, which read Some village in Texas is missing their idiot. That would definitely be is and its in the US. Several people defended this, saying that a village could use the plural possessive their. I personally found it odd (and essentially non-grammatical) not because either the singular or plural forms should be mandated but because this one manages to mix them up. So Some village in Texas are missing their idiot At least that one is consistent, though it sounds wrong to US ears. would be better (though it sounds like the kind of thing only the idiot alluded to would say), while my preferred choice would be Some village in Texas is missing its idiot. Then again, what can you expect from a country whose leader pronounces nuclear as though it were spelled nucular? Don't get me started on _that_ one. I found it particularly horrifying that Jimmy Carter pronounced it nucular -- he had studied nuclear engineering at the naval acadamy, and should at least be able pronounce the word. I suppose it's only a matter of time before they change the spelling just like they did with aluminium. :) -- Grant Edwards grante Yow! Oh my GOD -- the at SUN just fell into YANKEE visi.comSTADIUM!! -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: When someone from Britain speaks, Americans hear a British accent...
Grant Edwards wrote: On 2005-10-07, Steve Holden [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: [...] Then again, what can you expect from a country whose leader pronounces nuclear as though it were spelled nucular? Don't get me started on _that_ one. I found it particularly horrifying that Jimmy Carter pronounced it nucular -- he had studied nuclear engineering at the naval acadamy, and should at least be able pronounce the word. I suppose it's only a matter of time before they change the spelling just like they did with aluminium. :) One can only hope that Bush has been control of the nuclear weapons rather than the nuclear ones. regards Steve -- Steve Holden +44 150 684 7255 +1 800 494 3119 Holden Web LLC www.holdenweb.com PyCon TX 2006 www.python.org/pycon/ -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: When someone from Britain speaks, Americans hear a British accent...
On Fri, 07 Oct 2005 14:24:42 -, Grant Edwards [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 2005-10-07, Steve Holden [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: [...] Some village in Texas are missing their idiot At least that one is consistent, though it sounds wrong to US ears. The Germans have a word for it (sounds wrong): Sprachgefuhl, literally a feeling for the language. [...] Don't get me started on _that_ one. I found it particularly horrifying that Jimmy Carter pronounced it nucular -- he had studied nuclear engineering at the naval acadamy, and should at least be able pronounce the word. I was talking to my daughter, Amy, last night... Regards, -=Dave -- Change is inevitable, progress is not. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: When someone from Britain speaks, Americans hear a British accent...
On Friday 07 October 2005 03:01 am, Steve Holden wrote: OK, so how do you account for the execresence That will give you a savings of 20%, which usage is common in America? In America, anyway, savings is a collective abstract noun (like physics or mechanics), there's no such noun as saving (that's present participle of to save only). How did you expect that sentence to be rendered? Why is it an execresence? By the way, dict.org doesn't think execresence is a word, although I interpret the neologism as meaning something like execrable utterance: dict.org said: No definitions found for 'execresence'! Cheers, Terry -- Terry Hancock ( hancock at anansispaceworks.com ) Anansi Spaceworks http://www.anansispaceworks.com -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: When someone from Britain speaks, Americans hear a British accent...
Terry Hancock wrote: By the way, dict.org doesn't think execresence is a word, although I interpret the neologism as meaning something like execrable utterance: dict.org said: No definitions found for 'execresence'! however, 'excrescence' appears to be a perfectly cromulent word: http://dictionary.reference.com/wordoftheday/archive/2004/08/22.html http://www.wordsmith.org/words/excrescence.html maybe dict.org just needs to work on their did you mean algorithm? /F -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: When someone from Britain speaks, Americans hear a British accent...
On Friday 07 October 2005 06:24 am, Steven D'Aprano wrote: [snip] Some village in Texas is missing their idiot. I personally found it odd (and essentially non-grammatical) not because either the singular or plural forms should be mandated but because this one manages to mix them up. So Some village in Texas are missing their idiot Some village in Texas is missing its idiot. Yes, that's the puppy. I think where the people are getting confused is that it is (arguably) acceptable to use their in place of his or her, as in: In a Texas dialect, their is construed to mean singular third person of indeterminate gender. It's considered rude to use it to apply to a sentient, and his or her is PC (and therefore a great sin ;-) ). What's going on up above, is that village is being construed as singular, but also sentient, since it's a group of people. This is a simplification, since the actual grammar fluctuates -- I think this is in the process of happening as the language evolves. Self-conscious Texans simply try to avoid using constructs with an indeterminate third person singular, substituting plurals wherever possible. So it's not very consistent -- and quite a few of us attempt to assimilate our speech to what we think is Standard American English. But you *will* occasionally hear pronouns here which do not occur in proper English, such as theirself -- which shows what's going on in the speaker's mind. They know the subject is singular, it's just that you didn't realize that their could *be* singular. :-) You also see there, the tendency to normalize reflexive pronouns to the possessive + self form: myself ourselves yourself y'all's selves hisself theirselves herself theirself itself Whereas so-called proper English is inconsistent (read broken): myself ourselves yourself yourselves himself themselves herself his or her self itself The same thing happened to you, of course, ages ago, which is why we almost never use the ONE TRUE singular 2nd person, which is thou. In fact, hardly anyone remembers the correct thou conjugations of verbs anymore. Or even that it *is* singular. I read an really annoying book once which kept trying to say things like thou are -- if you're going to use thou, at least conjugate correctly! It's thou art. Of course, just to keep y'all on your toes, we Texans have not only construed their to singular, but also you, and added a new plural y'all. As in Why can't y'all get y'all's selves together and understand that how a person talks is their own business. Innit? Cheers, Terry -- Terry Hancock ( hancock at anansispaceworks.com ) Anansi Spaceworks http://www.anansispaceworks.com -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: When someone from Britain speaks, Americans hear a British accent...
On Friday 07 October 2005 01:31 pm, Dave Hansen wrote: Don't get me started on _that_ one. I found it particularly horrifying that Jimmy Carter pronounced it nucular -- he had studied nuclear engineering at the naval acadamy, and should at least be able pronounce the word. Well, there's your problem. He learned from engineers. Engineers can't speak English. I was instructed in my Engineering Statics class that a three-dimensional structure connecting non-coplanar points in space was called a tetrahedragon. I am not kidding. This actually happened. Cheers, Terry -- Terry Hancock ( hancock at anansispaceworks.com ) Anansi Spaceworks http://www.anansispaceworks.com -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: When someone from Britain speaks, Americans hear a British accent...
On 2005-10-07, Terry Hancock [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Of course, just to keep y'all on your toes, we Texans have not only construed their to singular, but also you, and added a new plural y'all. AFAICT, in many parts of The South, y'all is now used in the singular (e.g. y'all is used when addressing a single person), and all y'all is the plural form used when addressing a group of people collectively. -- Grant Edwards grante Yow! If elected, Zippy at pledges to each and every visi.comAmerican a 55-year-old houseboy... -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: When someone from Britain speaks, Americans hear a British accent...
On 2005-10-07, Terry Hancock [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Well, there's your problem. He learned from engineers. Engineers can't speak English. I was instructed in my Engineering Statics class that a three-dimensional structure connecting non-coplanar points in space was called a tetrahedragon. Watch out for the fire-breathing kind. They're especially dangerous since they have multiple faces, so there's no behind from which to sneak up upon them from... of... to. -- Grant Edwards grante Yow! Nipples, dimples, at knuckles, NICKLES, visi.comwrinkles, pimples!! -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: When someone from Britain speaks, Americans hear a British accent...
On Fri, 07 Oct 2005 21:44:29 +0100, Steve Holden [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Terry Hancock wrote: On Friday 07 October 2005 03:01 am, Steve Holden wrote: OK, so how do you account for the execresence That will give you a savings of 20%, which usage is common in America? In America, anyway, savings is a collective abstract noun (like physics or mechanics), there's no such noun as saving (that's present participle of to save only). How did you expect that sentence to be rendered? Why is it an execresence? Precisely because there *is* such a thing as a saving. If I buy a $100 gumball for $80 I have achieved a saving of 20%. FWIW, my dictionary has a usage note: /Savings/ (plural noun) is not preceded by the singular /a/, except loosely:The price represents a savings (properly /saving/) of ten dollars. In the foregoing, considered as an example in writing, /savings/ is unacceptable to 89 per cent the Usage Panel. (Words enclosed in /slashes/ represent italics.) The dictionary? The American Heritage Dictionary of the English Language, New College Edition. Still sounds wrong to me, though. -=Dave -- Change is inevitable, progress is not. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: When someone from Britain speaks, Americans hear a British accent...
On Fri, 7 Oct 2005 16:18:57 -0500, Terry Hancock [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Friday 07 October 2005 01:31 pm, Dave Hansen wrote: Actually, I didn't, though I did respond to it. Please watch your attributions. Thanks, -=Dave -- Change is inevitable, progress is not. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: When someone from Britain speaks, Americans hear a British accent...
On Friday 07 October 2005 03:44 pm, Steve Holden wrote: Precisely because there *is* such a thing as a saving. If I buy a $100 gumball for $80 I have achieved a saving of 20%. Nope, that's incorrect American. ;-) You can say I bought a $100 gumball for $80, saving 20%, or If I buy a $100 gumball for $80, I have achieved a savings of 20%. (Although, you lose points for style with achieved, and those are awfully expensive gumballs). ;-) -- Terry Hancock ( hancock at anansispaceworks.com ) Anansi Spaceworks http://www.anansispaceworks.com -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: When someone from Britain speaks, Americans hear a British accent...
On Fri, Oct 07, 2005 at 09:14:51PM -, Grant Edwards wrote: On 2005-10-07, Terry Hancock [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Of course, just to keep y'all on your toes, we Texans have not only construed their to singular, but also you, and added a new plural y'all. AFAICT, in many parts of The South, y'all is now used in the singular (e.g. y'all is used when addressing a single person), and all y'all is the plural form used when addressing a group of people collectively. What word(s) do you use to address a group of two or more people? http://cfprod01.imt.uwm.edu/Dept/FLL/linguistics/dialect/staticmaps/q_50.html A map from a US dialect survey. Click around for many more questions. The question was a bit broken, it did not list all y'all and its most glaring omission was yous guys The Philly responders selected the next best option of yous It is a bit odd that You'uns, yins, and yous are confined to Pennsylvania and very distinct east-west regions inside PA at that (Pittsburgh vs Philly orbits). -jack -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: When someone from Britain speaks, Americans hear a British accent...
On Friday 07 October 2005 04:21 pm, Grant Edwards wrote: On 2005-10-07, Terry Hancock [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Well, there's your problem. He learned from engineers. Engineers can't speak English. I was instructed in my Engineering Statics class that a three-dimensional structure connecting non-coplanar points in space was called a tetrahedragon. [typo: the word four is missing above in the definition] Watch out for the fire-breathing kind. They're especially dangerous since they have multiple faces, so there's no behind from which to sneak up upon them from... of... to. Well, yeah, although the correct pronunciation is apparently te-tra-HEE-dra-GON. (Wishing I had figured out how to type IPA symbols so you could fully appreciate that ;-) ). It was very distracting, though, subvocalizing tetrahedron constantly during this guy's lectures. I suppose that might've contributed to my poor grade in this class (I left engineering altogether very shortly thereafter). -- Terry Hancock ( hancock at anansispaceworks.com ) Anansi Spaceworks http://www.anansispaceworks.com -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: When someone from Britain speaks, Americans hear a British accent...
On 2005-10-07, Jack Diederich [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: What word(s) do you use to address a group of two or more people? http://cfprod01.imt.uwm.edu/Dept/FLL/linguistics/dialect/staticmaps/q_50.html A map from a US dialect survey. Click around for many more questions. Cool. While we're on the topic, has anybody else noticed that guys is acceptible and commonly used to refer to a group of women, but the singular guy is never used to refer to a single woman (and most of the women I've asked think that gal or gals is insulting). Likewise, dude is often used when addressing a female but almost never when speaking about one in the third person. The question was a bit broken, it did not list all y'all and its most glaring omission was yous guys The Philly responders selected the next best option of yous It is a bit odd that You'uns, yins, and yous are confined to Pennsylvania and very distinct east-west regions inside PA at that (Pittsburgh vs Philly orbits). Eastern and Western Pennsylvania are practically different countries when it comes to language and culture. -- Grant Edwards grante Yow! ... The waitress's at UNIFORM sheds TARTAR SAUCE visi.comlike an 8 by 10 GLOSSY... -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: When someone from Britain speaks, Americans hear a British accent...
On Fri, Oct 07, 2005 at 10:28:18PM -, Grant Edwards wrote: On 2005-10-07, Jack Diederich [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: It is a bit odd that You'uns, yins, and yous are confined to Pennsylvania and very distinct east-west regions inside PA at that (Pittsburgh vs Philly orbits). Eastern and Western Pennsylvania are practically different countries when it comes to language and culture. I'll buy that, I'm from Eastern PA (half PA Dutch) and I've only been to Pittsburgh once. There is a very good reason for this, the six hour drive is the same as from Philly to Boston (through NJ, NY, CT and into MA). Alternatively you can drive from Philly to DC to Philly or Philly to New York to Philly to New York in the same amount of time. -jack -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: When someone from Britain speaks, Americans hear a British accent...
Grant Edwards ha escrito: While we're off this topic again topic, I was watching a BBC series Space Race the other night. The British actors did a passable job with the American accents in the scenes at Fort Bliss in Texas, but the writers wrote British English lines for them to speak in their American accents... Continuing with this off-topic thread about british accent and movies... I've always asked myself why do Hollywood movies about the Roman Empire show the Emperors and all the nobles speaking with british accent? They were italians for God's sake! Anyway, I can't imagine Julius Caesar speaking like Vito Corleone... -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: When someone from Britain speaks, Americans hear a British accent...
Luis M. Gonzalez wrote: Grant Edwards ha escrito: While we're off this topic again topic, I was watching a BBC series Space Race the other night. The British actors did a passable job with the American accents in the scenes at Fort Bliss in Texas, but the writers wrote British English lines for them to speak in their American accents... Continuing with this off-topic thread about british accent and movies... I've always asked myself why do Hollywood movies about the Roman Empire show the Emperors and all the nobles speaking with british accent? They were italians for God's sake! Anyway, I can't imagine Julius Caesar speaking like Vito Corleone... Of course not! Vito Corleone was Sicilian. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: When someone from Britain speaks, Americans hear a British accent...
On Fri, 07 Oct 2005 18:03:20 -0700, Luis M. Gonzalez wrote: Continuing with this off-topic thread about british accent and movies... I've always asked myself why do Hollywood movies about the Roman Empire show the Emperors and all the nobles speaking with british accent? They were italians for God's sake! You would rather they speak in an Italian accent? Anyway, I can't imagine Julius Caesar speaking like Vito Corleone... :-) The BBC adaptation of I, Claudius had all the upper-class Romans speaking in posh English accents (think of Queen Victoria), and the servants, soldiers, slaves etc speaking in Cockney and other working-class accents. This, by the way, is closer to the historical truth than many people imagine. The Latin we learnt in school was so-called Classical Latin. Your average Roman centurion spoke something that was to Classical Latin as your boyz in the hood speaks to standard American English. In the recent movie Alexander the Great, which was nowhere near as bad as the reputation it got (okay, it wasn't that good, but neither was it bad), they did a similar thing. The Greeks spoke in very polished English accents, while the Macedonians (who by their own admission had been goat herders only to generations before) spoke in broad Irish/Scottish accents, and the lower class they were, the thicker the accent. -- Steven. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: When someone from Britain speaks, Americans hear a British accent...
On Tue, 28 Jun 2005 14:52:44 -0700, James Stroud [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Frankly, I can't watch Shakespeare or movies like the full monty or trainspotting because I can't understand a damn word they say. British talk sounds like gibberish to me for the most part. Not just you. It always amuses me in trips to the US that British voices (outside of the movies) are often subtitled, while first-generation Americans whose English is. um, limited, are not. Try pretending the British accents are from naturalised US citizens. That should do the trick. DaveM -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: When someone from Britain speaks, Americans hear a British accent...
On 2005-10-06, DaveM [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Frankly, I can't watch Shakespeare or movies like the full monty or trainspotting because I can't understand a damn word they say. British talk sounds like gibberish to me for the most part. Not just you. It always amuses me in trips to the US that British voices (outside of the movies) are often subtitled, while first-generation Americans whose English is. um, limited, are not. What?!? I've never seen a British voice (inside or outside of the movies) subtitled -- with the exception of one of a nightclub scenes in one movie (I think it was Trainspotting) where the dialog was inaudible because of the music. While we're off this topic again topic, I was watching a BBC series Space Race the other night. The British actors did a passable job with the American accents in the scenes at Fort Bliss in Texas, but the writers wrote British English lines for them to speak in their American accents. For example: In British English one uses a plural verb when the subject consists of more than one person. Sports teams, government departments, states, corporations etc. are grammatically plural. In American, the verb agrees with the word that is the subject, not how many people are denoted by that word. In sports (thats sport for you Brits): American: Minnesota is behind 7-0. The Vikings are behind 7-0. British: Minnesota are behind 7-0. The Vikings are behind 7-0. In politics: American: The war department has decided to cancel the program. British: The war department have decided to cancel the program. And so on... -- Grant Edwards grante Yow! I think I am an at overnight sensation right visi.comnow!! -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: When someone from Britain speaks, Americans hear a British accent...
Grant Edwards [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: On 2005-10-06, DaveM [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Frankly, I can't watch Shakespeare or movies like the full monty or trainspotting because I can't understand a damn word they say. British talk sounds like gibberish to me for the most part. Not just you. It always amuses me in trips to the US that British voices (outside of the movies) are often subtitled, while first-generation Americans whose English is. um, limited, are not. What?!? I've never seen a British voice (inside or outside of the movies) subtitled -- with the exception of one of a nightclub scenes in one movie (I think it was Trainspotting) where the dialog was inaudible because of the music. Maybe they were dubbed? I know America International dubbed the first version of Mad Max that they imported into the US. Then again, American International is well-know for their quality. mike -- Mike Meyer [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.mired.org/home/mwm/ Independent WWW/Perforce/FreeBSD/Unix consultant, email for more information. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: When someone from Britain speaks, Americans hear a British accent...
On 2005-10-07, Mike Meyer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Not just you. It always amuses me in trips to the US that British voices (outside of the movies) are often subtitled, while first-generation Americans whose English is. um, limited, are not. What?!? I've never seen a British voice (inside or outside of the movies) subtitled -- with the exception of one of a nightclub scenes in one movie (I think it was Trainspotting) where the dialog was inaudible because of the music. Maybe they were dubbed? I don't think so. Where exactly did you see all these sub-titled British TV/movies? In all the British movies and TV shows I've seen in the US, the British actors sound the same as the do on British TV. I don't recall ever going to a theater in England, but I've seen plenty of TV in England. To me the dialog sounds the same as it does in the US. I know America International dubbed the first version of Mad Max that they imported into the US. Then again, American International is well-know for their quality. That could be. -- Grant Edwards grante Yow! LIFE is a at never-ending INFORMERCIAL! visi.com -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: When someone from Britain speaks, Americans hear a British accent...
Mike Meyer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote in news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]: Grant Edwards [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: On 2005-10-06, DaveM [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Frankly, I can't watch Shakespeare or movies like the full monty or trainspotting because I can't understand a damn word they say. British talk sounds like gibberish to me for the most part. Not just you. It always amuses me in trips to the US that British voices (outside of the movies) are often subtitled, while first-generation Americans whose English is. um, limited, are not. What?!? I've never seen a British voice (inside or outside of the movies) subtitled -- with the exception of one of a nightclub scenes in one movie (I think it was Trainspotting) where the dialog was inaudible because of the music. Maybe they were dubbed? I know America International dubbed the first version of Mad Max that they imported into the US. Then again, American International is well-know for their quality. A couple of nights ago, I was amused and amazed to see subtitles during NBC news interviews with some good citizens of Louisiana. I don't know what NBC was thinking. I didn't think the accents were especially thick, either. I had no difficulty understanding the spoken words except in one stretch where background noise obscured some bits. I've certainly heard some New Yorkers with harder-to- understand speech, though without subtitles. I suppose I could be fooling myself in thinking I understood them. -- rzed -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: When someone from Britain speaks, Americans hear a British accent...
Grant Edwards: Where exactly did you see all these sub-titled British TV/movies? I've noticed this too when travelling but can't recall precise details. Perhaps it is on the international versions of American channels such as CNN which are commonly watched by people with less English and hence less ability to handle accents. Neil -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: When someone from Britain speaks, Americans hear a British accent...
[Chan] T can be silent in England too .. frui' cricke' [Stephen] Both of those words (fruit and cricket) have the letter T sounded. Stephen (Nationality: English). Not necessarily - in my native accent they'd be replaced with glottal stops. Richie (Nationality: West Yorkshire 8-) (Having a daughter has improved my speech - I'm much more careful about enunciating my words properly so that she doesn't pick up my bad habits.) -- Richie Hindle [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: When someone from Britain speaks, Americans hear a British accent...
Grant Edwards [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I'm an American who grew up watching plenty of BBC, and I run into afew native Londoners whom I have hard time understanding. I don't ever remember having troubly understanding people outside the city. But have you encountered regional dialects? - e.g. from the north of the country, where you get both a strong accent, very different from London speech, and the use of different words. For example, folk in parts of the north-east will say canny instead of careful, gannin instead of going, bonny lass instead of pretty girl. The question Do you know what I mean? expressed phonetically in Geordie (one of the north-eastern dialects) becomes Ya knaa what ah mean, leik? Nick -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: When someone from Britain speaks, Americans hear a British accent...
Mike Holmans [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote in message news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]... Some of those sonorous slow talkers from the South, and majestic bass African-Americans like James Earl Jones or Morgan Freeman, have far more gravitas than any English accent can: to us, such people sound monumental. Yes, get James Earl Jones together with some people speaking in (Standard) British English accents and the impression you get is almost Imperial... Paul -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: When someone from Britain speaks, Americans hear a British accent...
In message [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes T can be silent in England too .. frui' cricke' Both of those words (fruit and cricket) have the letter T sounded. Stephen (Nationality: English). -- Stephen Kellett Object Media Limitedhttp://www.objmedia.demon.co.uk/software.html Computer Consultancy, Software Development Windows C++, Java, Assembler, Performance Analysis, Troubleshooting -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: When someone from Britain speaks, Americans hear a British accent...
On 28 Jun 2005 13:24:42 -0700, rumours say that muldoon [EMAIL PROTECTED] might have written: Now, what forum would you recommend? Any help would be appreciated. alt.usage.english? alt.languages.english? alt.english.usage? uk.culture.language.english? -- TZOTZIOY, I speak England very best. Dear Paul, please stop spamming us. The Corinthians -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: When someone from Britain speaks, Americans hear a British accent...
On Thu, 30 Jun 2005 18:29:56 +0100, rumours say that Tom Anderson [EMAIL PROTECTED] might have written: On Thu, 30 Jun 2005, Benji York wrote: python-needs-more-duct-tape'ly yours, You're in luck: Python 3000 will replace duck typing with duct taping. I would bet that somewhere in the Ingliy-spiking werld both terms sound exactly the same. -- TZOTZIOY, I speak England very best. Dear Paul, please stop spamming us. The Corinthians -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: When someone from Britain speaks, Americans hear a British accent...
muldoon wrote: Americans consider having a British accent a sign of sophistication and high intelligence. Many companies hire salespersons from Britain to represent their products,etc. Question: When the British hear an American accent, does it sound unsophisticated and dumb? Be blunt. We Americans need to know. Should we try to change the way we speak? Are there certain words that sound particularly goofy? Please help us with your advice on this awkward matter. I find this amusing even when they have the most cockney, ghetto English accent, Americans still find it sophisticated. And yes, seppos sound like dumb fucks to the entire rest of the world. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: When someone from Britain speaks, Americans hear a British accent...
On 2005-07-03, Darkfalz [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I find this amusing even when they have the most cockney, ghetto English accent, Americans still find it sophisticated. No they don't. Americans have pretty much the same stereotypes about regional English accents that the average Brit does. -- Grant Edwards grante Yow! Do you guys know we at just passed thru a BLACK visi.comHOLE in space? -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: When someone from Britain speaks, Americans hear a British accent...
T can be silent in England too .. frui' cricke' or replaced with D in the US .. budder ledder -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: When someone from Britain speaks, Americans hear a British accent...
On 29 Jun 2005 15:34:11 -0700, Luis M. Gonzalez [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: What's exactly the cockney accent? Is it related to some place or it's just a kind of slang? A cockney is a *real* Londoner, that is, someone born within the City of London, a.k.a The Square Mile. More specifically, it's someone born within the sound of Bow Bells - i.e. close to St Mary le Bow, London - http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?q=EC2V+6AU. This is within the theoretical sound of Bow Bells, you understand - there have been frequent and lengthy periods during which Bow Bells have not been rung at all. There are in fact no longer any hospitals with maternity units within the sound of Bow Bells, so there will be vanishingly few cockneys born in future. Strangely enough, this makes *me* a cockney, though I've never lived in the square mile, and my accent is pretty close to received. I do *work* in the City, though! The cockney accent used to be pretty distinct, but these days it's pretty much merged into the Estuary English accent common throughout the South East of England. I'm not sure, but I think that I read somewhere that it is common in some parts of London, and that it is a sign of a particular social class, more than a regionalism. Is that true? Cockney was London's working class accent, pretty much, thought it was frequently affected by members of the middle classes. Estuary English has taken over its position as the working class accent these days, but with a much wider regional distribution. How off topic is this? Marvellous! -- Cheers, Simon B, [EMAIL PROTECTED], http://www.brunningonline.net/simon/blog/ -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: When someone from Britain speaks, Americans hear a British accent...
Well, yes, it is kinda off topic, but very interesting... Being myself an argentine with spanish as mother tongue and a very bad English, it's hard foro me to tell the difference between accents. I can hardly tell an Irish from an English... But what I did tell is the broad range of different accents within London when I visited the city in 2001. Some people seemed to speak very clear to me, and others seemed to be speaking german! And as far as I know, all these people were british, not immigrants (and very hard to find indeed...). Cheers, Luis - Original Message - From: Simon Brunning [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Luis M. Gonzalez [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: python-list@python.org Sent: Thursday, June 30, 2005 5:20 AM Subject: Re: When someone from Britain speaks, Americans hear a British accent... On 29 Jun 2005 15:34:11 -0700, Luis M. Gonzalez [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: What's exactly the cockney accent? Is it related to some place or it's just a kind of slang? A cockney is a *real* Londoner, that is, someone born within the City of London, a.k.a The Square Mile. More specifically, it's someone born within the sound of Bow Bells - i.e. close to St Mary le Bow, London - http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?q=EC2V+6AU. This is within the theoretical sound of Bow Bells, you understand - there have been frequent and lengthy periods during which Bow Bells have not been rung at all. There are in fact no longer any hospitals with maternity units within the sound of Bow Bells, so there will be vanishingly few cockneys born in future. Strangely enough, this makes *me* a cockney, though I've never lived in the square mile, and my accent is pretty close to received. I do *work* in the City, though! The cockney accent used to be pretty distinct, but these days it's pretty much merged into the Estuary English accent common throughout the South East of England. I'm not sure, but I think that I read somewhere that it is common in some parts of London, and that it is a sign of a particular social class, more than a regionalism. Is that true? Cockney was London's working class accent, pretty much, thought it was frequently affected by members of the middle classes. Estuary English has taken over its position as the working class accent these days, but with a much wider regional distribution. How off topic is this? Marvellous! -- Cheers, Simon B, [EMAIL PROTECTED], http://www.brunningonline.net/simon/blog/ -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: When someone from Britain speaks, Americans hear a British accent...
Steven D'Aprano wrote: Speaking as an Australia, ... [snip] But don't worry, there is one thing we all agree on throughout the English-speaking world: you Americans don't speak English. And lest you feel Steven's observation don't bear much weight, keep in mind that he is speaking as an entire continent. ;-) But, speaking as Antarctica, I must disagree. I don't think the Keepers of the Canon of the English Language(tm) would hold up either your Strine or our Canadian regional accents as examples of Real English Pronunciation(tm). But that's the kind of thing that canon-keepers obsess about, while the rest of us just get along and communicate with one another. (By us, I mean us people, not us continents -- I stopped speaking as Antarctica a few lines back.) keep-your-stick-on-the-ice'ly yours, Graham -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: When someone from Britain speaks, Americans hear a British accent...
Graham Fawcett wrote: keep-your-stick-on-the-ice'ly yours, Is that a Red Green reference? Man, I didn't think this could get any more off-topic. :) python-needs-more-duct-tape'ly yours, Benji -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: When someone from Britain speaks, Americans hear a British accent...
On 2005-06-30, Luis M. Gonzalez [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Well, yes, it is kinda off topic, but very interesting... Being myself an argentine with spanish as mother tongue and a very bad English, it's hard foro me to tell the difference between accents. I can hardly tell an Irish from an English... But what I did tell is the broad range of different accents within London when I visited the city in 2001. Some people seemed to speak very clear to me, and others seemed to be speaking german! I'm an American who grew up watching plenty of BBC, and I run into afew native Londoners whom I have hard time understanding. I don't ever remember having troubly understanding people outside the city. -- Grant Edwards grante Yow! I KAISER ROLL?! What at good is a Kaiser Roll visi.comwithout a little COLE SLAW on the SIDE? -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: When someone from Britain speaks, Americans hear a British accent...
On Thu, 30 Jun 2005, Benji York wrote: python-needs-more-duct-tape'ly yours, You're in luck: Python 3000 will replace duck typing with duct taping. tom -- I know you wanna try and get away, but it's the hardest thing you'll ever know -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: When someone from Britain speaks, Americans hear a British accent...
On Thu, 30 Jun 2005, Simon Brunning wrote: On 29 Jun 2005 15:34:11 -0700, Luis M. Gonzalez [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: What's exactly the cockney accent? Is it related to some place or it's just a kind of slang? The cockney accent used to be pretty distinct, but these days it's pretty much merged into the Estuary English accent common throughout the South East of England. I grew up in Colchester, in the heart of Essex, the homeland of Estuary English; i was recently told by a couple of Spanish colleagues that i sounded just another colleague who has a Cockney accent. Although, in fact, my parents aren't Essexen, and i left the county seven years ago, so my accent is weird hybrid of Estuary and RP, and the colleague isn't a real Cockney - i think he's from east-north-eastern London - but he does overcompensate pronounciation-wise, so i don't know what it all means. It's also complicated by the fact that Essex actually has two completely different accents - the town accent, which is Estuary and is pretty much derived from emigrants from East London, and the country accent, which is indigenous, and very similar to the Suffolk and Norfolk accents. I grew up in a village and went to school (and went drinking etc) in the nearby town, so i was exposed to a different accents at different times of day! I'm not sure, but I think that I read somewhere that it is common in some parts of London, and that it is a sign of a particular social class, more than a regionalism. Is that true? Cockney was London's working class accent, pretty much, thought it was frequently affected by members of the middle classes. Estuary English has taken over its position as the working class accent these days, but with a much wider regional distribution. blimey guvnor you is well dahn on ar muvver tung, innit? How off topic is this? Marvellous! Spike Milligan did an excellent sketch in the style of a TV pop-anthropology documentary visiting the strange and primitive Cockanee people of East London. It was part of one of his Q series; i'm not sure which, but if it was Q5, then it would have had a direct impact on the Monty Python team, since that series basically beat them to the punch with the format they'd planned to use, forcing them to switch to the stream-of-consciousness style that became their trademark and which is the basis for python's indentation-based block structure. Therefore, if it hadn't been for the quirks of the Cockney accent, we'd all be using curly brackets and semicolons. FACT. tom -- I know you wanna try and get away, but it's the hardest thing you'll ever know -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: When someone from Britain speaks, Americans hear a British accent...
Tom Anderson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: if it hadn't been for the quirks of the Cockney accent, we'd all be using curly brackets and semicolons. +1 QOTW George -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: When someone from Britain speaks, Americans hear a British accent...
James Stroud wrote: Frankly, I can't watch Shakespeare or movies like the full monty or trainspotting because I can't understand a damn word they say. British talk sounds like gibberish to me for the most part. Have you had your hearing checked recently? Seriously. I have a hearing defect and speakers from the UK give me by far the most difficulty. People speaking English as a second language are more understandable. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: When someone from Britain speaks, Americans hear a British accent...
Well--to take this as far OT as imaginable, yes I do have strange hearing problems. I have difficulty recognizing speech of any kind with my right ear. Amazing to think that this would be enhanced for British, but it would be consistent with my experience, which seems similar to yours. James On Thursday 30 June 2005 01:46 pm, Bill wrote: James Stroud wrote: Frankly, I can't watch Shakespeare or movies like the full monty or trainspotting because I can't understand a damn word they say. British talk sounds like gibberish to me for the most part. Have you had your hearing checked recently? Seriously. I have a hearing defect and speakers from the UK give me by far the most difficulty. People speaking English as a second language are more understandable. -- James Stroud UCLA-DOE Institute for Genomics and Proteomics Box 951570 Los Angeles, CA 90095 http://www.jamesstroud.com/ -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: When someone from Britain speaks, Americans hear a British accent...
On Thursday 30 June 2005 09:49 am, Benji York wrote: Graham Fawcett wrote: keep-your-stick-on-the-ice'ly yours, Is that a Red Green reference? Man, I didn't think this could get any more off-topic. :) python-needs-more-duct-tape'ly yours, No silly, it's duck typing, not duct taping! -- Terry Hancock ( hancock at anansispaceworks.com ) Anansi Spaceworks http://www.anansispaceworks.com -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: When someone from Britain speaks, Americans hear a British accent...
muldoon schrieb:
Now, what forum would you recommend? Any help would be appreciated.
alt.culture.us.*
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Re: When someone from Britain speaks, Americans hear a British accent...
On Wed, 29 Jun 2005 03:14:26 -, Grant Edwards [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: cool because you have to bet a lot of money. Anyway, if you insist on making distinctions between the backwoods of apalachia and european aristocracy, What, you think they sound the same? I think that backwoods American speech is more archaic, and therefore is possibly closer to historical European speech. Susan Cooper uses this as a minor plot point in her juvenile novel King of Shadows, which is about a 20th-century Southern kid who goes back to Elizabethan times and ends up acting with Shakespeare; his accent ensures that he doesn't sound *too* strange in 16th-century London. --amk -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
RE: When someone from Britain speaks, Americans hear a British accent...
[A.M. Kuchling] | I think that backwoods American speech is more archaic, and | therefore is possibly closer to historical European speech. | Susan Cooper uses this as a minor plot point in her juvenile | novel King of Shadows, which is about a 20th-century | Southern kid who goes back to Elizabethan times and ends up | acting with Shakespeare; his accent ensures that he doesn't | sound *too* strange in 16th-century London. Aha! Bit of North American parochialism there. The fact that he's a Southern kid doesn't say from the southern states of North America to everyone. All right, in fact it's clear from the context, but I just fancied having a jab. In fact, I rather like the fact that he can truthfully claim to come from Falmouth, which his hearers (including Queen Elizabeth!) understand to mean the town in the West Country [of England] whereas in fact he means the town in Carolina (apparently). TJG | | --amk | -- | http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list | | __ | __ | This e-mail has been scanned for all viruses by Star. The | service is powered by MessageLabs. For more information on a proactive | anti-virus service working around the clock, around the globe, visit: | http://www.star.net.uk | __ | __ | This e-mail has been scanned for all viruses by Star. The service is powered by MessageLabs. For more information on a proactive anti-virus service working around the clock, around the globe, visit: http://www.star.net.uk -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: When someone from Britain speaks, Americans hear a British accent...
On Tue, 28 Jun 2005 11:27:40 -0700, muldoon wrote: Americans consider having a British accent a sign of sophistication and high intelligence. Many companies hire salespersons from Britain to represent their products,etc. Question: When the British hear an American accent, does it sound unsophisticated and dumb? Which American accent? Texan? Georgian cracker or Maine fisherman? New York taxi driver? Bill Clinton or Jesse Jackson or George W Bush? California Valley girl, Arkansas redneck or boyz from th' hood? Paris Hilton or Queen Latifah? Be blunt. We Americans need to know. Should we try to change the way we speak? Are there certain words that sound particularly goofy? Please help us with your advice on this awkward matter. Speaking as an Australia, the typical film voice (eg Harrison Ford, Tom Cruise, etc) doesn't sound unsophisticated. In fact, when we hear it, it doesn't sound like an accent at all, such is the influence of Hollywood. (Which is linguistically impossible, of course, since *every* way of speaking is by definition an accent.) The Hollywood voice is a mixture of West Coast and very light mid-Western. But as for the rest of you, yes, you sound -- strange. It depends on the specific regional accent. At best, just different. At worst, dumber than a box of hammers. Which is of course unfair: there is no connection between accent and intelligence. But by gum, some accents just sound dumber than others. My fiancee, from Ireland, has worked and lived in the USA for half her life, and to her you all sound like Kermit the Frog and Miss Piggy. Lest anyone gets offended, I should point out that every English-speaking country have accents which are considered by others to mark the speaker as a thick yokel. In Ireland, they look down on Kerrymen. In England, even Yorkshiremen look down on Summerset, Devon and Dorset accents. And there is nothing as thick-sounding as a broad Ocker Aussie accent. But don't worry, there is one thing we all agree on throughout the English-speaking world: you Americans don't speak English. There are a few things that you can do to help: Herb starts with H, not E. It isn't ouse or ospital or istory. It isn't erb either. You just sound like tossers when you try to pronounce herb in the original French. And the same with homage. Taking of herbs, there is no BAY in basil. And oregano sounds like Ray Romano, not oh-reg-ano. And please, fillet of fish only has a silent T if you are speaking French. Aluminium is al-u-min-ium, not alum-i-num. Scientists work in a la-bor-atory, not a lab-rat-ory, even if they have lab rats in the laboratory. Fans of the X-Men movies and comics will remember Professor Charles Xavier. Unless you are Spanish (Kh-avier), the X sounds like a Z: Zaviour. But never never never Xecks-Aviour or Eggs-Savior. Nuclear. Say no more. -- Steven. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: When someone from Britain speaks, Americans hear a British accent...
[Mike Holmans] Some of those sonorous slow talkers from the South, and majestic bass African-Americans like James Earl Jones or Morgan Freeman, have far more gravitas than any English accent can: to us, such people sound monumental. On a related note, have you ever seen any of the original undubbed Star Wars scenes with Darth Vader, with the original voice of the English actor who played him, Dave Prowse (The Green Cross Man, for those who remember ;-) Problem was, Mr. Prowse has a pronounced West Country accent. Imagine it: Darth Vader (in the voice of Farmer Giles): You are a Rebel, and a Traitor to the Empire. Hilarious :-D, and impossible to take seriously. Thankfully they overdubbed it with James Earl Jones, Born in Mississippi, raised in Michigan, who produced one of the finest and most memorable voice performances in modern cinema. get-orff-moy-lahnd-ly y'rs -- alan kennedy -- email alan: http://xhaus.com/contact/alan -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: When someone from Britain speaks, Americans hear a British accent...
Steven D'Aprano wrote: Herb starts with H, not E. It isn't ouse or ospital or istory. It isn't erb either. You just sound like tossers when you try to pronounce herb in the original French. And the same with homage. Strangely enough there are Brits who pronounce hotel without an H at the beginning. And even those who pronounce it with an H sometimes say an hotel rather than a hotel because it used to be pronounced starting with the vowel! Similarly, the Brits should note that idea does not end in an r and that Eleanor does. -- Michael Hoffman -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: When someone from Britain speaks, Americans hear a British accent...
muldoon wrote: Americans consider having a British accent a sign of sophistication and high intelligence. Many companies hire salespersons from Britain to represent their products,etc. Question: When the British hear an American accent, does it sound unsophisticated and dumb? Be blunt. We Americans need to know. Should we try to change the way we speak? Are there certain words that sound particularly goofy? Please help us with your advice on this awkward matter. To true Pythonistas, the only regional English accent which denotes sophistication and high intelligence is the Dutch-English accent. For those wishing to practice their faux-Dutch-English accent (absolutely necessary if you are to be taken seriously at any Python-related gathering, no matter where in the world it is held), some examples to emulate can be found here (needs Quicktime): http://classweb.gmu.edu/accent/dutch0.html and here: http://www.itconversations.com/shows/detail545.html http://www.itconversations.com/shows/detail559.html Tim C -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: When someone from Britain speaks, Americans hear a British accent...
On 2005-06-29, Luis M. Gonzalez [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Grant Edwards wrote: That depends on the accent. I believe that's probably true for the educated south of England, BBC, received pronunciation. I don't think that's true for some of the other dialects from northern areas (e.g. Liverpool) or the cockney accent. What's exactly the cockney accent? http://www.ic.arizona.edu/~lsp/CockneyEnglish.html Is it related to some place or it's just a kind of slang? I'm not sure, but I think that I read somewhere that it is common in some parts of London, and that it is a sign of a particular social class, more than a regionalism. Is that true? I think it's both. -- Grant Edwards grante Yow! Uh-oh!! I forgot at to submit to COMPULSORY visi.comURINALYSIS! -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: When someone from Britain speaks, Americans hear a British accent...
Steven D'Aprano wrote: But don't worry, there is one thing we all agree on throughout the English-speaking world: you Americans don't speak English. There are a few things that you can do to help: Herb starts with H, not E. It isn't ouse or ospital or istory. It isn't erb either. You just sound like tossers when you try to pronounce herb in the original French. And the same with homage. Taking of herbs, there is no BAY in basil. And oregano sounds like Ray Romano, not oh-reg-ano. And please, fillet of fish only has a silent T if you are speaking French. 'T' is always silent in the USA. - Innernet - Twenny Aluminium is al-u-min-ium, not alum-i-num. Scientists work in a la-bor-atory, not a lab-rat-ory, even if they have lab rats in the laboratory. Fans of the X-Men movies and comics will remember Professor Charles Xavier. Unless you are Spanish (Kh-avier), the X sounds like a Z: Zaviour. But never never never Xecks-Aviour or Eggs-Savior. Nuclear. Say no more. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
When someone from Britain speaks, Americans hear a British accent...
Americans consider having a British accent a sign of sophistication and high intelligence. Many companies hire salespersons from Britain to represent their products,etc. Question: When the British hear an American accent, does it sound unsophisticated and dumb? Be blunt. We Americans need to know. Should we try to change the way we speak? Are there certain words that sound particularly goofy? Please help us with your advice on this awkward matter. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: When someone from Britain speaks, Americans hear a British accent...
muldoon [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: || Americans consider having a British accent a sign of || sophistication and high intelligence. Many companies hire || salespersons from Britain to represent their products,etc. || Question: When the British hear an American accent, does it || sound unsophisticated and dumb? || || Be blunt. We Americans need to know. Should we try to change || the way we speak? Are there certain words that sound || particularly goofy? Please help us with your advice on this || awkward matter. Which of the British accents? BJ -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: When someone from Britain speaks, Americans hear a British accent...
On 2005-06-28, muldoon [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Americans consider having a British accent a sign of sophistication and high intelligence. That depends on the accent. I believe that's probably true for the educated south of England, BBC, received pronunciation. I don't think that's true for some of the other dialects from northern areas (e.g. Liverpool) or the cockney accent. Many companies hire salespersons from Britain to represent their products,etc. Question: When the British hear an American accent, does it sound unsophisticated and dumb? I too have always wondered about this. Be blunt. We Americans need to know. Should we try to change the way we speak? Are there certain words that sound particularly goofy? Please help us with your advice on this awkward matter. -- Grant Edwards grante Yow! Mr and Mrs PED, can at I borrow 26.7 visi.com -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: When someone from Britain speaks, Americans hear a British accent...
muldoon wrote: Americans consider having a British accent a sign of sophistication and high intelligence. Many companies hire salespersons from Britain to represent their products,etc. Question: When the British hear an American accent, does it sound unsophisticated and dumb? Be blunt. We Americans need to know. To be blunt, I have no idea what this has to do with Python. Surely selecting the right forum to use indicates more sophistication and high intelligence than the way one speaks. ;-) -- Michael Hoffman -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: When someone from Britain speaks, Americans hear a British accent...
On 2005-06-28, Michael Hoffman [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: muldoon wrote: Americans consider having a British accent a sign of sophistication and high intelligence. Many companies hire salespersons from Britain to represent their products,etc. Question: When the British hear an American accent, does it sound unsophisticated and dumb? Be blunt. We Americans need to know. To be blunt, I have no idea what this has to do with Python. Monty Python was mostly Brits? Surely selecting the right forum to use indicates more sophistication and high intelligence than the way one speaks. ;-) Well, there is that... -- Grant Edwards grante Yow! Hello... IRON at CURTAIN? Send over a visi.comSAUSAGE PIZZA! World War III? No thanks! -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: When someone from Britain speaks, Americans hear a British accent...
Grant Edwards napisał(a): To be blunt, I have no idea what this has to do with Python. Monty Python was mostly Brits? Wasn't they all Brits? -- Jarek Zgoda http://jpa.berlios.de/ -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: When someone from Britain speaks, Americans hear a British accent...
Thats like posting about Google here because the newsgroup is hosted on Google. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: When someone from Britain speaks, Americans hear a British accent...
Michael Hoffman wrote: muldoon wrote: Americans consider having a British accent a sign of sophistication and high intelligence. Many companies hire salespersons from Britain to represent their products,etc. Question: When the British hear an American accent, does it sound unsophisticated and dumb? Be blunt. We Americans need to know. To be blunt, I have no idea what this has to do with Python. Surely selecting the right forum to use indicates more sophistication and high intelligence than the way one speaks. ;-) -- Michael Hoffman This is from California, not far from where they did the old atomic bomb tests. Be tolerant. Mutation you know. Now, what forum would you recommend? Any help would be appreciated. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: When someone from Britain speaks, Americans hear a British accent...
On 2005-06-28, Jarek Zgoda [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Grant Edwards napisa³(a): To be blunt, I have no idea what this has to do with Python. Monty Python was mostly Brits? Wasn't they all Brits? Nope. Terry Gilliam was from Minneapolis. -- Grant Edwards grante Yow! RELAX!!... This at is gonna be a HEALING visi.comEXPERIENCE!! Besides, I work for DING DONGS! -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: When someone from Britain speaks, Americans hear a British accent...
muldoon wrote: Now, what forum would you recommend? Any help would be appreciated. Not here. Beyond that, you're on your own. -- Robert Kern [EMAIL PROTECTED] In the fields of hell where the grass grows high Are the graves of dreams allowed to die. -- Richard Harter -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: When someone from Britain speaks, Americans hear a British accent...
On 2005-06-28, Devan L [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Thats like posting about Google here because the newsgroup is hosted on Google. Except the newsgroup isn't hosted on Google, and it's far less interesting than Monty Python. -- Grant Edwards grante Yow! THE LITTLE PINK at FLESH SISTERS, I saw them visi.comat th' FLUROESCENT BULB MAKERS CONVENTION... -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: When someone from Britain speaks, Americans hear a British accent...
On Tue, 28 Jun 2005 19:23:11 -, Grant Edwards [EMAIL PROTECTED] tapped the keyboard and brought forth: On 2005-06-28, muldoon [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Americans consider having a British accent a sign of sophistication and high intelligence. That depends on the accent. I believe that's probably true for the educated south of England, BBC, received pronunciation. I don't think that's true for some of the other dialects from northern areas (e.g. Liverpool) or the cockney accent. Many companies hire salespersons from Britain to represent their products,etc. Question: When the British hear an American accent, does it sound unsophisticated and dumb? I too have always wondered about this. Since you've acknowledged that it's only the RP accent which gets that respect in the US (and since I speak it, I rather enjoy my visits across the pond) and others are either cute or obvious hicks, it shouldn't be a surprise that the same applies to the wide range of accents used by Americans. The strong Appalachian accent of the guide who took us round some caves in WV last year was the epitome of unsophistication - although what he said was extremely informative and delved into some advanced science. My wife's an Okie, but she speaks the US equivalent of RP - the one used by newsreaders on the main terrestrial TV networks and which is commonly thought to be used mostly in Ohio and other places just south of the Great Lakes. If there's such a thing as a standard American accent, that's it. It neither sounds dumb nor clever - just American. Some of those sonorous slow talkers from the South, and majestic bass African-Americans like James Earl Jones or Morgan Freeman, have far more gravitas than any English accent can: to us, such people sound monumental. But most of the obviously regional accents in the US sound cute or picturesque, while the ones Americans tend to regard as hick accents just sound comical. The problem which a lot of fairly-midstream American accent users face is that it's the same sort of thing which Brits try and imitate when they want to suggest a snake-oil salesman. At bottom, an American accent doesn't mark someone out to a Brit as dumb or unsophisticated, but the immediate suspicion generated is that they're a phony and likely to be saying stuff without much regard for its accuracy. Cheers, Mike -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: When someone from Britain speaks, Americans hear a British accent...
Grant Edwards napisał(a): To be blunt, I have no idea what this has to do with Python. Monty Python was mostly Brits? Wasn't they all Brits? Nope. Terry Gilliam was from Minneapolis. Are you sure there are no Brits in Minneapolis? -- Jarek Zgoda http://jpa.berlios.de/ -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: When someone from Britain speaks, Americans hear a British accent...
muldoon wrote: Michael Hoffman wrote: muldoon wrote: Americans consider having a British accent a sign of sophistication and high intelligence. Many companies hire salespersons from Britain to represent their products,etc. Question: When the British hear an American accent, does it sound unsophisticated and dumb? Be blunt. We Americans need to know. To be blunt, I have no idea what this has to do with Python. Surely selecting the right forum to use indicates more sophistication and high intelligence than the way one speaks. ;-) This is from California, not far from where they did the old atomic bomb tests. Be tolerant. Mutation you know. First you say be blunt, now you say be tolerant? Make up your mind! ;-) -- Michael Hoffman -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: When someone from Britain speaks, Americans hear a British accent...
Michael Hoffman ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote: : muldoon wrote: : Americans consider having a British accent a sign of sophistication : and high intelligence. Many companies hire salespersons from Britain to : represent their products,etc. Question: When the British hear an : American accent, does it sound unsophisticated and dumb? : : Be blunt. We Americans need to know. : To be blunt, I have no idea what this has to do with Python. Surely : selecting the right forum to use indicates more sophistication and high : intelligence than the way one speaks. ;-) Well you could draw a tenuous Python link on the headache inducing subject of trying to remember which spelling is which when doing something like: thirdparty_module_1.color = thirdparty_module_2.colour from __future__ import sane_spelling :-) cds -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: When someone from Britain speaks, Americans hear a British accent...
Frankly, I can't watch Shakespeare or movies like the full monty or trainspotting because I can't understand a damn word they say. British talk sounds like gibberish to me for the most part. Out of all of these movies, the only thing I ever could understand was something like I've got the beast in my sights misses Pennymoney. Haaar! Wow, that's a good one. I think James Bond did it for Americans. He always wore a dinner jacket and played a lot of backarack--which is only cool because you have to bet a lot of money. Anyway, if you insist on making distinctions between the backwoods of apalachia and european aristocracy, I should remind you of the recessive genetic diseases that have historically plagued europe's nobility. On Tuesday 28 June 2005 11:27 am, muldoon wrote: Americans consider having a British accent a sign of sophistication and high intelligence. Many companies hire salespersons from Britain to represent their products,etc. Question: When the British hear an American accent, does it sound unsophisticated and dumb? Be blunt. We Americans need to know. Should we try to change the way we speak? Are there certain words that sound particularly goofy? Please help us with your advice on this awkward matter. -- James Stroud UCLA-DOE Institute for Genomics and Proteomics Box 951570 Los Angeles, CA 90095 http://www.jamesstroud.com/ -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: When someone from Britain speaks, Americans hear a British accent...
On 2005-06-28, Jarek Zgoda [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Grant Edwards napisa³(a): To be blunt, I have no idea what this has to do with Python. Monty Python was mostly Brits? Wasn't they all Brits? Nope. Terry Gilliam was from Minneapolis. Are you sure there are no Brits in Minneapolis? There are plenty of Brit's in Minneapolis. My favorite radio DJ is one of them. Perhap's Gilliam has lived in Britain long enough to be considered a Brit, but he was born in Minneapolis, graduated from College in LA, and didn't move to Britain until he was something like 27. I believe he has British citizenship, so if that's the criterion, he's a Brit now. However, back when he was in Monty Python, he'd only lived in England for few years. -- Grant Edwards grante Yow! How's it going in at those MODULAR LOVE UNITS?? visi.com -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: When someone from Britain speaks, Americans hear a British accent...
Mike Holmans wrote: My wife's an Okie, but she speaks the US equivalent of RP - the one used by newsreaders on the main terrestrial TV networks and which is commonly thought to be used mostly in Ohio and other places just south of the Great Lakes. If there's such a thing as a standard American accent, that's it. It neither sounds dumb nor clever - just American. The linguistic term for that accent, by the way, is General American. The problem which a lot of fairly-midstream American accent users face is that it's the same sort of thing which Brits try and imitate when they want to suggest a snake-oil salesman. And due to overcorrection, typically do a really bad job of it :-). -- Erik Max Francis [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.alcyone.com/max/ San Jose, CA, USA 37 20 N 121 53 W AIM erikmaxfrancis If I had never met you / Surely I'd be someone else -- Anggun -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: When someone from Britain speaks, Americans hear a British accent...
On 2005-06-28, James Stroud [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I think James Bond did it for Americans. He always wore a dinner jacket and played a lot of backarack--which is only cool because you have to bet a lot of money. Anyway, if you insist on making distinctions between the backwoods of apalachia and european aristocracy, What, you think they sound the same? I should remind you of the recessive genetic diseases that have historically plagued europe's nobility. If don't think the English are willing to laugh at the nobility, you must not have seen the Twit of the Year skit or the election skit with what's-his-name (pronounced mangrove throatwarbler). -- Grant Edwards grante Yow! I wonder if I should at put myself in ESCROW!! visi.com -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: When someone from Britain speaks, Americans hear a British accent...
On 2005-06-29, Erik Max Francis [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The problem which a lot of fairly-midstream American accent users face is that it's the same sort of thing which Brits try and imitate when they want to suggest a snake-oil salesman. And due to overcorrection, typically do a really bad job of it :-). That reminds me of a character in one of the old Dr. Who series. I thought this character had some sort of speach impediment. After a few episodes I caught a few cultural allusions made by the character and it finally dawned on me the the character was supposed to be an _American_. I assume that when I try to speak with a British accent I sound just as bad to a Brit. -- Grant Edwards grante Yow! Why is everything at made of Lycra Spandex? visi.com -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: When someone from Britain speaks, Americans hear a British accent...
Jarek Zgoda wrote: Grant Edwards napisał(a): To be blunt, I have no idea what this has to do with Python. Monty Python was mostly Brits? Wasn't they all Brits? I think one was a lumberjack (but he's okay), which would make him a Canadian, eh? -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
