Re: Xah Lee network abuse
Its not Xah Lee, who abuses the system. But people like Erik Max Francis and Philippa Cowderoy who carry on nonsense discussions across mailing lists. -- Surendra Singhi http://ssinghi.kreeti.com , | WHY SHOULD WE SAVE TIGER? | Ans: Saving the tiger means saving mankind.. | | Help http://pudang.tripod.com/ | or https://secure.worldwildlife.org/forms/tiger_appeal_1.cfm ` -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Xah Lee network abuse
Philippa Cowderoy [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote in message news:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Sun, 11 Jun 2006, Mike Schilling wrote: I'm not aware of any definition of libel that includes making statements that are not provably true. I believe UK law uses one that's close to it. If I were to write, say, that Tony Blair's tax policy will lead to higher deficits, I could be convicted of libel? Even if that's true, it's not a priori provable. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Xah Lee network abuse
Mike Schilling wrote: If I were to write, say, that Tony Blair's tax policy will lead to higher deficits, I could be convicted of libel? Even if that's true, it's not a priori provable. I think what he was getting at is that, unlike many jurisdictions, writing something factually true is _not_ in and of itself a defense against a libel suit in the UK. As for the reverse side of the issue, in jurisdictions where it _is_ a defense, if one were to accuse him of being a pedophile but couldn't prove it, that would certainly be an actionable offense. -- Erik Max Francis [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.alcyone.com/max/ San Jose, CA, USA 37 20 N 121 53 W AIM erikmaxfrancis Twenty-four hours a day, three-hundred sixty-five days a year as Secretary of Defense, I lived the Cold War. -- Robert S. McNamara -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Xah Lee network abuse
Philippa Cowderoy wrote: I'm not aware of a current legal system where it's the case, but I don't know the details of many of them. Many states have criminal as well as civil libel. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slander_and_libel -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Xah Lee network abuse
On Sat, 10 Jun 2006, Erik Max Francis wrote: Mike Schilling wrote: If I were to write, say, that Tony Blair's tax policy will lead to higher deficits, I could be convicted of libel? Even if that's true, it's not a priori provable. I think what he was getting at is that, unlike many jurisdictions, writing something factually true is _not_ in and of itself a defense against a libel suit in the UK. It is. However, the onus is on the defendant to show that it's true, rather than on the claimant to show that it's false. I assume the he refers to Brandon? -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] A problem that's all in your head is still a problem. Brain damage is but one form of mind damage. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Xah Lee network abuse
EJP wrote: Many states have criminal as well as civil libel. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slander_and_libel The idea of using Wikipedia to back up a legal point is rather amusing ... but still, none of the relevant parties involved live in countries which have any form of criminal libel. -- Erik Max Francis [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.alcyone.com/max/ San Jose, CA, USA 37 20 N 121 53 W AIM erikmaxfrancis To perceive is to suffer. -- Aristotle -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Xah Lee network abuse
Philippa Cowderoy wrote: It is. However, the onus is on the defendant to show that it's true, rather than on the claimant to show that it's false. That also depends on the jurisdiction. I assume the he refers to Brandon? No, I was referring to the person who he was replying to, i.e., you. -- Erik Max Francis [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.alcyone.com/max/ San Jose, CA, USA 37 20 N 121 53 W AIM erikmaxfrancis Twenty-four hours a day, three-hundred sixty-five days a year as Secretary of Defense, I lived the Cold War. -- Robert S. McNamara -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Xah Lee network abuse
On Sun, 11 Jun 2006, Erik Max Francis wrote: Philippa Cowderoy wrote: It is. However, the onus is on the defendant to show that it's true, rather than on the claimant to show that it's false. That also depends on the jurisdiction. Hrmm, does that one differ in Scotland? I assume the he refers to Brandon? No, I was referring to the person who he was replying to, i.e., you. Wrong pronoun, then. -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] Society does not owe people jobs. Society owes it to itself to find people jobs. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Xah Lee network abuse
Philippa Cowderoy wrote: Hrmm, does that one differ in Scotland? I don't believe so. Wrong pronoun, then. Well, your comment was challenged, and I offered a reasonable interpretation of what you might have meant (which indicated a more general point in any case, namely that libel law is not quite as simple as the original poster was making it out to be). If you don't wish to defend your position, that's fine, but pointing fingers is kind of weird at this stage. -- Erik Max Francis [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.alcyone.com/max/ San Jose, CA, USA 37 20 N 121 53 W AIM erikmaxfrancis To perceive is to suffer. -- Aristotle -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Xah Lee network abuse
On Sun, 11 Jun 2006, Erik Max Francis wrote: Philippa Cowderoy wrote: Hrmm, does that one differ in Scotland? I don't believe so. My statement was intended in the context of UK law - I have to admit to not knowing too much about what's different north of the border beyond the infamous verdict though. Wrong pronoun, then. Well, your comment was challenged, and I offered a reasonable interpretation of what you might have meant (which indicated a more general point in any case, namely that libel law is not quite as simple as the original poster was making it out to be). If you don't wish to defend your position, that's fine, but pointing fingers is kind of weird at this stage. I'd still appreciate being referred to as she rather than he though. -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] 'In Ankh-Morpork even the shit have a street to itself... Truly this is a land of opportunity.' - Detritus, Men at Arms -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Xah Lee network abuse
Philippa Cowderoy wrote: I'd still appreciate being referred to as she rather than he though. Oops, my bad. Never occurred to me after all these years, which is kind of embarrassing, actually :-). -- Erik Max Francis [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.alcyone.com/max/ San Jose, CA, USA 37 20 N 121 53 W AIM erikmaxfrancis Isn't jumping of a bridge / Free fallin' -- Sandra St. Victor -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Xah Lee network abuse
Erik Max Francis wrote: EJP wrote: Many states have criminal as well as civil libel. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slander_and_libel The idea of using Wikipedia to back up a legal point is rather amusing ... but still, none of the relevant parties involved live in countries which have any form of criminal libel. OK, OK, just proffered as information, not a conclusive proof. It's the *courts* that back up legal points of course, not anything said or found here. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Xah Lee network abuse
Erik Max Francis [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote in message news:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Mike Schilling wrote: If I were to write, say, that Tony Blair's tax policy will lead to higher deficits, I could be convicted of libel? Even if that's true, it's not a priori provable. I think what he was getting at is that, unlike many jurisdictions, writing something factually true is _not_ in and of itself a defense against a libel suit in the UK. As for the reverse side of the issue, in jurisdictions where it _is_ a defense, if one were to accuse him of being a pedophile but couldn't prove it, that would certainly be an actionable offense. In the U.S, for instance, you wouldn't have to prove it. It would be sufficent to demonstrate that there's enough evidence supporting it that you weren't reckless in writing it. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Xah Lee network abuse
On Sun, 11 Jun 2006 06:05:22 GMT, Mike Schilling [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Philippa Cowderoy [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote in message news:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Sun, 11 Jun 2006, Mike Schilling wrote: I'm not aware of any definition of libel that includes making statements that are not provably true. I believe UK law uses one that's close to it. If I were to write, say, that Tony Blair's tax policy will lead to higher deficits, I could be convicted of libel? Even if that's true, it's not a priori provable. DISCLAIMER - I AM NOT A LAWYER In the US, the defense against a libel claim is to prove the statement or accusation is true. In the US, libel involves damage to someone's reputation by means of deliberately false statements or accusations. Expert opinion is explicitly protected from libel claims unless it malicious. Non-expert opinion is generally judged on the intent of the author. Unprovable supposition is generally held to be non-libelous, however unprovable accusation is not allowed. Moreover, in the US, political figures are explicitly denied some (but not all) libel protections because it is expected that their actions will cause some measure of public dissent. I don't know UK defamation law but I suspect it is quite similar to US law. In your polite example, your opinion of Tony Blair's policy would be unprovable supposition at the time of the writing (as would Blair's own) and would therefore not be libelous. However, if your opinion took an accusatory tone saying, for example, that he was increasing the public deficit to line his pockets, then you had better be right. George -- for email reply remove / from address -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Xah Lee network abuse
Erik Max Francis wrote: Mallor wrote: I know I'm coming late to the barbeque. In passing, I ask: do you have an objective, impartial perspective on the subject of committing crimes? Because libel is a crime. No, it is a tort. Can I have whipped cream and strawberries on that tort? :Robert -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Xah Lee network abuse
PofN wrote: Liar. You were never sorry when you troubled us with your posting excrements in the past, you are not sorry now. Liar. You are a net abuser, a kook and a troll. It has nothing to do with your writings and style. It has everything to do with your vialoation of netiquette, with you x-posting of off-topic messages, with your trolling and kookery. Liear. John asked people do do their duty as net citizens and to report a serial net abuser. Liar. Your whole usenet career is build around the posting of off-topic messages. Liar. You were getting out of hand for some time now. People know very well about you, Xah Lee, the serial newsgroup abuser, troll, liar, and kook. More lies. I appreciate the courage of John and friends to stand up against someone who is out of control. You are not even affraid off accusing John of a crime (harrasment) and starting a smear campaing on your web site. You have sunken so low that you are fast approaching the earth's metal core. I know I'm coming late to the barbeque. In passing, I ask: do you have an objective, impartial perspective on the subject of committing crimes? Because libel is a crime. It all depends on whether what you state about Xah is provably true or not. I haven't followed his posts, but when I hear someone chanting abuser, troll, liar, kook! I really wonder about the accuser. Anyways, I suppose it's all sport until one of you gets the lawyers involved. Cheers, Brandon Van Every -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Xah Lee network abuse
Mallor wrote: I know I'm coming late to the barbeque. In passing, I ask: do you have an objective, impartial perspective on the subject of committing crimes? Because libel is a crime. No, it is a tort. -- Erik Max Francis [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.alcyone.com/max/ San Jose, CA, USA 37 20 N 121 53 W AIM erikmaxfrancis Bachelors have consciences, married men have wives. -- H.L. Mencken -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Xah Lee network abuse
On Sat, 10 Jun 2006, Erik Max Francis wrote: Mallor wrote: I know I'm coming late to the barbeque. In passing, I ask: do you have an objective, impartial perspective on the subject of committing crimes? Because libel is a crime. No, it is a tort. Rather a lot depends on which legal system you're in, for a start. Including the standards of proof and who the onus is on. -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sometimes you gotta fight fire with fire. Most of the time you just get burnt worse though. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Xah Lee network abuse
Philippa Cowderoy wrote: Rather a lot depends on which legal system you're in, for a start. Including the standards of proof and who the onus is on. Oh, no doubt. But I don't think there's any modern legal system in which it's a crime, rather than a tort. Is there? Anyway, it's certainly a tort in all relevant jurisdictions here. -- Erik Max Francis [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.alcyone.com/max/ San Jose, CA, USA 37 20 N 121 53 W AIM erikmaxfrancis Covenants without the sword are but words. -- Camden -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Xah Lee network abuse
On Sat, 10 Jun 2006, Erik Max Francis wrote: Philippa Cowderoy wrote: Rather a lot depends on which legal system you're in, for a start. Including the standards of proof and who the onus is on. Oh, no doubt. But I don't think there's any modern legal system in which it's a crime, rather than a tort. Is there? I'm not aware of a current legal system where it's the case, but I don't know the details of many of them. -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] A problem that's all in your head is still a problem. Brain damage is but one form of mind damage. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Xah Lee network abuse
Mallor [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote in message news:[EMAIL PROTECTED] I know I'm coming late to the barbeque. In passing, I ask: do you have an objective, impartial perspective on the subject of committing crimes? Because libel is a crime. It all depends on whether what you state about Xah is provably true or not. I'm not aware of any definition of libel that includes making statements that are not provably true. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Xah Lee network abuse
On Sun, 11 Jun 2006, Mike Schilling wrote: I'm not aware of any definition of libel that includes making statements that are not provably true. I believe UK law uses one that's close to it. -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] Society does not owe people jobs. Society owes it to itself to find people jobs. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Xah Lee network abuse
Mallor wrote: I know I'm coming late to the barbeque. That's why you are missing the history In passing, I ask: do you have an objective, impartial perspective on the subject of committing crimes? Because libel is a crime. It all depends on whether what you state about Xah is provably true or not. I haven't followed his posts, Had you done so, then you wouldn't ask this question. jue -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Xah Lee network abuse
Xah Lee wrote: I'm sorry to trouble everyone. Liar. You were never sorry when you troubled us with your posting excrements in the past, you are not sorry now. But as you might know, due to my controversial writings and style, Liar. You are a net abuser, a kook and a troll. It has nothing to do with your writings and style. It has everything to do with your vialoation of netiquette, with you x-posting of off-topic messages, with your trolling and kookery. recently John Bokma lobbied people to complaint to my web hosting provider. Liear. John asked people do do their duty as net citizens and to report a serial net abuser. After exchanging a few emails, my web hosting provider sent me a 30-day account cancellation notice last Friday. Shit. So they gave you 30 more days to abuse the net. Shit, shit, shit. They should have pulled the plug immediately. I'm not sure I will be able to keep using their service, but I do hope so. Lets hope not. I do not like to post off-topic messages, Liar. Your whole usenet career is build around the posting of off-topic messages. but this is newsgroup incidence is getting out of hand, Liar. You were getting out of hand for some time now. and I wish people to know about it. People know very well about you, Xah Lee, the serial newsgroup abuser, troll, liar, and kook. I wrote some full detail here: http://xahlee.org/Periodic_dosage_dir/t2/harassment.html More lies. If you believe this lobbying to my webhosting provider is unjust, please write to my web hosting provider [EMAIL PROTECTED] I believe it is justified, and I wrote dreamhost to thank them. You now reap what you saw. You refused to play nice with us in the past, now don't be surprised that people don't come to your aid. Your help is appreciated. Thank you. I appreciate the courage of John and friends to stand up against someone who is out of control. You are not even affraid off accusing John of a crime (harrasment) and starting a smear campaing on your web site. You have sunken so low that you are fast approaching the earth's metal core. *Thanks John for making usenet a better place!* -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
