RE: Yet Another Python Web Programming Question
FWIW there's dos2unix program that fixes this on most systems. -Original Message- From: Bill Mill [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, July 11, 2005 11:55 AM To: Daniel Bickett Cc: python-list@python.org Subject: Re: Yet Another Python Web Programming Question Python using CGI, for example, was enough for him until he started getting 500 errors that he wasn't sure how to fix. A common error is that python cgi files need line endings to be in unix text file format, not windows text file format (\n instead of \r\n) [1]. Why this is, I don't know, but it causes a lot of errors for windows folks. I'm a frequent linux/windows switcher, and it's caused me no end of troubles - if you're getting premature end of script headers in your apache error logs, this may be your problem. Peace Bill Mill bill.mill at gmail.com -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list --- The information contained in this message may be privileged and / or confidential and protected from disclosure. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please notify the sender immediately by replying to this message and deleting the material from any computer. --- -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Yet Another Python Web Programming Question
Daniel Bickett [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote in message news:[EMAIL PROTECTED] snip It was his opinion that web programming should feel no different from desktop programming. snip Should that ever become even remotely possible - I'll be interested in web programming myself. Thomas Bartkus -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Yet Another Python Web Programming Question
Python using CGI, for example, was enough for him until he started getting 500 errors that he wasn't sure how to fix. A common error is that python cgi files need line endings to be in unix text file format, not windows text file format (\n instead of \r\n) [1]. Why this is, I don't know, but it causes a lot of errors for windows folks. I'm a frequent linux/windows switcher, and it's caused me no end of troubles - if you're getting premature end of script headers in your apache error logs, this may be your problem. Peace Bill Mill bill.mill at gmail.com -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
RE: Yet Another Python Web Programming Question
Daniel Bickett wrote: I neglected to mention an important fact, and that is the fact that I am limited to Apache, which elminates several suggestions (that are appreciated none-the-less). Do you have access to mod_python, mod_rewrite, FastCGI, or SCGI? Then CherryPy 2.1 is still a great option for you with Apache: http://www.cherrypy.org/wiki/WSGIServers http://www.cherrypy.org/wiki/BehindApache Robert Brewer System Architect Amor Ministries [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Yet Another Python Web Programming Question
Daniel Bickett [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote in news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]: I neglected to mention an important fact, and that is the fact that I am limited to Apache, which elminates several suggestions (that are appreciated none-the-less). Limited to Apache is not the same as using apache in a restricted environment, so we may need more clarification. If you are looking for a solution that sits on top of apache somehow, and you have system administrative access, there are a lot of choices, including ones that use mod_python. If something is not intended to interface directly with apache, it can still be proxied through apache while it runs on an alternate local port (a standalone app with an embedded web server, for example). If you mean that you're in a typical hosted environment with insufficient privileges to install or configure much of anything, you might be stuck with CGI. Since you mention in your original post that you have a folder in your home directory that's in sys.path, your provider is trying to do something to support python applications (hopefully, the path is specific to your virtual host, to avoid namespace collisions). In any case, if this was done to support mod_python, you can meet some of your criteria with mod_python.publisher, but you will almost certainly want to use a staging platform to develop your apps beforehand, since it is necessary to either restart apache or touch imported modules after editing. BTW, this is how I use Python for web applications myself: Each virtual host gets a special directory prepended to the PYTHONPATH, in which the bulk of my applications are created as packages. Then I use mod_python.publisher to publish single modules that serve as interfaces, converting values from requests and passing them on to the packages, which I try to make web agnostic (in fact, I develop most of the backend code locally before even trying it out on the web, so I can use it in other application domains). I've looked at other offerings, but as soon as I see proprietary markup or commands embedded in HTML, I lose interest, so I feel your pain. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Yet Another Python Web Programming Question
Robert Brewer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote in message news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]... Daniel Bickett wrote: I neglected to mention an important fact, and that is the fact that I am limited to Apache, which elminates several suggestions (that are appreciated none-the-less). Do you have access to mod_python, mod_rewrite, FastCGI, or SCGI? Then CherryPy 2.1 is still a great option for you with Apache: http://www.cherrypy.org/wiki/WSGIServers http://www.cherrypy.org/wiki/BehindApache According to the quick facts page [1] CherryPy powered web applications are in fact stand-alone Python applications embedding their own multi-threaded web server, suggesting that if the hosting environment is limited to Apache and if this can also be taken to mean that the environment doesn't permit long-running server processes apart from Apache, then CherryPy isn't likely to be suitable. Karigell was also mentioned, but according to the documentation (Working with Apache or Xitami [2]) Apache will be used as a proxy between the client and the built-in server, so you have to configure Apache so that it sends the requests to the built-in server, also suggesting that in limited hosting environments Karigell won't be suitable either. Spyce, on the other hand, seems to work with mod_python, although I agree with Andrew Clover that the inquirer probably knows what they want to do using a traditional Web application programming style and doesn't need a framework which decides lots of things on their behalf. Moreover, I'd imagine that not all restrictive hosting environments make mod_python available to their clients. My meagre contribution to the genre is WebStack [3] which does run in the most plain of hosting environments (CGI) as well as others. Really intended for the writing of frameworks, the programming style might suit someone who wants to have control over the most elementary aspects of Web programming. As Andrew said, there are plenty of choices... Paul [1] http://www.cherrypy.org/wiki/CherryPyQuickFacts [2] http://karrigell.sourceforge.net/en/apache.htm [3] http://www.python.org/pypi/WebStack -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
RE: Yet Another Python Web Programming Question
Paul Boddie wrote: Robert Brewer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote in message news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]... Daniel Bickett wrote: I neglected to mention an important fact, and that is the fact that I am limited to Apache, which elminates several suggestions (that are appreciated none-the-less). Do you have access to mod_python, mod_rewrite, FastCGI, or SCGI? Then CherryPy 2.1 is still a great option for you with Apache: http://www.cherrypy.org/wiki/WSGIServers http://www.cherrypy.org/wiki/BehindApache According to the quick facts page CherryPy powered web applications are in fact stand-alone Python applications embedding their own multi-threaded web server, suggesting that if the hosting environment is limited to Apache and if this can also be taken to mean that the environment doesn't permit long-running server processes apart from Apache, then CherryPy isn't likely to be suitable. Thanks for pointing that out; that page was out of date, and has now been corrected: http://www.cherrypy.org/wiki/CherryPyQuickFacts . CherryPy 2.1 apps can be deployed using Apache (via mod_python) or IIS (via ASP) as the webserver *without* running the webserver built into CherryPy. In fact, CherryPy should work with any WSGI-capable webserver, and be deployable in a wide variety of hosting environments with no changes to your application code. Robert Brewer System Architect Amor Ministries [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Yet Another Python Web Programming Question
Daniel Bickett enlightened us with: It would be a long while before he would find Python, and since that time he would have no desire to ever touch PHP again. My thoughts exactly. He would, however, be compelled to write a web application again, but in Python now, of course. Same here :) * They required installation (as opposed to, simply, the placement of modules), whereas the only pythonic freedom he had on his hosting was a folder in his /home/ dir that was in the python system path. I can't help you here. For instance, if you want to get a proper performance, you should install something like mod_python to get Python functionality in Apache. Python using CGI, for example, was enough for him until he started getting 500 errors that he wasn't sure how to fix. Check the web server's error logs. My solution was to take a look at Cheetah. It's a template engine that's written in Python. I've written a mod_python handler for it so I can easily create edit my website using Cheetah as a template engine. Check out http://www.unrealtower.org/mycheetah if you want to read more about the handler other stuff I wrote. Perhaps you can even help me improve it! Sybren -- The problem with the world is stupidity. Not saying there should be a capital punishment for stupidity, but why don't we just take the safety labels off of everything and let the problem solve itself? Frank Zappa -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Yet Another Python Web Programming Question
This post started as an incredibly long winded essay, but halfway through I decided that was a terribly bad idea, so I've trimmed it down dramatically, and put it in the third person (for humor's sake). Once upon a time a boy named Hypothetical programmed in PHP and made many a web application. It would be a long while before he would find Python, and since that time he would have no desire to ever touch PHP again. He would, however, be compelled to write a web application again, but in Python now, of course. He would read the documentation of Nevow, Zope, and Quixote, and would find none of them to his liking because: * They had a learning curve, and he was not at all interested, being eager to fulfill his new idea for the web app. It was his opinion that web programming should feel no different from desktop programming. * They required installation (as opposed to, simply, the placement of modules), whereas the only pythonic freedom he had on his hosting was a folder in his /home/ dir that was in the python system path. * See the first point, over and over again. All he really wanted was something that managed input (i.e. get, post) and output (i.e. headers: Content-type:), and he would be satisfied, because he wasn't an extravagant programmer even when he used PHP. Python using CGI, for example, was enough for him until he started getting 500 errors that he wasn't sure how to fix. He is also interested in some opinions on the best/most carefree way of interfacing with MySQL databases. Thanks for your time, -- Daniel Bickett dbickett at gmail.com http://heureusement.org/ -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Yet Another Python Web Programming Question
Take some time to learn one of the web frameworks. If your host doesn't already have it, ask your host if they would consider adding it. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Yet Another Python Web Programming Question
Daniel Bickett wrote: He would read the documentation of Nevow, Zope, and Quixote, and would find none of them to his liking because: * They had a learning curve, and he was not at all interested, being eager to fulfill his new idea for the web app. It was his opinion that web programming should feel no different from desktop programming. * They required installation (as opposed to, simply, the placement of modules), whereas the only pythonic freedom he had on his hosting was a folder in his /home/ dir that was in the python system path. I've been playing with CherryPy lately, and it's been a lot of fun (for me, it meets both the above requirements - obviously anything will have a learning curve, but CherryPy's is very small). -Dave -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Yet Another Python Web Programming Question
Daniel Bickett wrote: He would read the documentation of Nevow, Zope, and Quixote, and would find none of them to his liking because: * They had a learning curve, and he was not at all interested, being eager to fulfill his new idea for the web app. It was his opinion that web programming should feel no different from desktop programming. If you're coming from a PHP background, you'll find Spyce's learning curve even shallower. http://spyce.sourceforge.net -Jonathan -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Yet Another Python Web Programming Question
Try Karrigell ( http://karrigell.sourceforge.net ). And let me know what you think... Cheers, Luis -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Yet Another Python Web Programming Question
Daniel Bickett wrote: Python using CGI, for example, was enough for him until he started getting 500 errors that he wasn't sure how to fix. Every time you mention web applications on this list, there will necessarily be a flood of My Favourite Framework Is X posts. But you* sound like you don't want a framework to take over the architecture of your app and tell you what to do. And, indeed, you don't need to do that. There are plenty of standalone modules you can use - even ones that are masquerading as part of a framework. I personally use my own input-stage and templating modules, along with many others, over standard CGI, and only bother moving to a faster server interface which can support DB connection pooling (such as mod_python) if it's actually necessary - which is, surprisingly, not that often. Hopefully if WSGI catches on we will have a better interface available as standard in the future. Not quite sure what 500 Errors you're getting, but usually 500s are caused by unhandled exceptions, which Apache doesn't display the traceback from (for security reasons). Bang the cgitb module in there and you should be able to diagnose problems more easily. He is also interested in some opinions on the best/most carefree way of interfacing with MySQL databases. MySQLdb works fine for me: http://sourceforge.net/projects/mysql-python/ (* - er, I mean, Hypothetical. But Hypothetical is a girl's name!) -- Andrew Clover mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.doxdesk.com/ -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Yet Another Python Web Programming Question
I neglected to mention an important fact, and that is the fact that I am limited to Apache, which elminates several suggestions (that are appreciated none-the-less). -- Daniel Bickett dbickett at gmail.com http://heureusement.org/ -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
