Re: introducing Lettuce, BDD tool for python with Django integration
Steven D'Aprano wrote: I assume the one you're talking about is Behaviour Driven Development. Wikipedia defines it as: BDD is a second-generation, outside-in, pull-based, multiple-stakeholder, multiple-scale, high-automation, agile methodology. It describes a cycle of interactions with well-defined outputs, resulting in the delivery of working, tested software that matters. Oh, my goodness. My buzzword-density meter just flew off the scale. Approach with caution -- the bogon flux may be lethal. -- Greg -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: introducing Lettuce, BDD tool for python with Django integration
In article 83dddac7-7a3a-4dee-9944-ee2f0ec72...@u20g2000pru.googlegroups.com, alex23 wuwe...@gmail.com wrote: Tycho Andersen ty...@tycho.ws wrote: I think his point may have been that there could be more than one meaning. My first guess would have been binary decision diagram. Ah, good point. My apologies for the dig, Terry :) Another point is that it is (or should be) incumbent upon a poster not to waste the time of readers. If a new-ish term is being introduced, expecting each person to search for the meaning is rude. -- Aahz (a...@pythoncraft.com) * http://www.pythoncraft.com/ If you don't know what your program is supposed to do, you'd better not start writing it. --Dijkstra -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: introducing Lettuce, BDD tool for python with Django integration
a...@pythoncraft.com (Aahz) wrote: If a new-ish term is being introduced, expecting each person to search for the meaning is rude. The question then becomes how does one determine whether a term one is using needs defining? Does OO? How about FP? Or TDD? Is there a metric for how many years or how many journals etc a concept needs to exist within before we just assume people know it? If something is ridiculously obvious to you, does that necessarily hold true for everyone else? Or is it just easier to assume that people within a specific domain have the means to fill in their gaps of understanding themselves? -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: introducing Lettuce, BDD tool for python with Django integration
On 6/13/10 8:43 PM, alex23 wrote: a...@pythoncraft.com (Aahz) wrote: If a new-ish term is being introduced, expecting each person to search for the meaning is rude. The question then becomes how does one determine whether a term one is using needs defining? When someone asks for the definition. -- Robert Kern I have come to believe that the whole world is an enigma, a harmless enigma that is made terrible by our own mad attempt to interpret it as though it had an underlying truth. -- Umberto Eco -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: introducing Lettuce, BDD tool for python with Django integration
On Sun, 13 Jun 2010 18:43:01 -0700, alex23 wrote: a...@pythoncraft.com (Aahz) wrote: If a new-ish term is being introduced, expecting each person to search for the meaning is rude. The question then becomes how does one determine whether a term one is using needs defining? Does OO? How about FP? Or TDD? My rule of thumb is that unless an acronym has entered the wider vocabulary of the general public (e.g. NASA, CIA, KGB, WW2) or is specific to the community you're talking to (e.g. LOL or ROFL on most web forums), I always treat such acronyms as niche terms that need defining at least the first time I use it in a thread. Especially when, like FP and TDD, it could have multiple meanings. Did you mean Floating Point or Functional Programming? Top Down Development or Test Driven Development? (I suppose you youngsters no longer care about the great controversy of the 1970s and 80s, whether Top Down or Bottom Up was better.) Is there a metric for how many years or how many journals etc a concept needs to exist within before we just assume people know it? No. Some jargon can exist for decades and never spread beyond a tiny niche, and others spread to the wider community like wildfire in a matter of months. If something is ridiculously obvious to you, does that necessarily hold true for everyone else? Or is it just easier to assume that people within a specific domain have the means to fill in their gaps of understanding themselves? Oh, it's *easier*, that's for sure. But is it *better*? The aim of communication is to share information, and communication which fails to do so has failed. When posting a message that aims to introduce Lettuce, which clearly is a niche product, it's probably not a good idea to assume that the jargon used within that niche is widespread. Google has no clue what BDD is either. Googling for define:BDD comes up with four definitions: Two for Body Dysmorphic Disorder. One for Binary Decision Diagram. And one for the Pennsylvania Bureau of Disability Determination. Without the define: prefix, Googling finds: The stock exchange code for DB Base Metals Body Dysmorphic Disorder Behaviour Driven Development Brand Distribution and Development BDD stairlifts BDD Insurance and many more. I assume the one you're talking about is Behaviour Driven Development. Wikipedia defines it as: BDD is a second-generation, outside-in, pull-based, multiple-stakeholder, multiple-scale, high-automation, agile methodology. It describes a cycle of interactions with well-defined outputs, resulting in the delivery of working, tested software that matters. Bingo! -- Steven -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: introducing Lettuce, BDD tool for python with Django integration
On 6/13/2010 9:43 PM, alex23 wrote: a...@pythoncraft.com (Aahz) wrote: If a new-ish term is being introduced, expecting each person to search for the meaning is rude. The question then becomes how does one determine whether a term one is using needs defining? If it has never be used before on Python list, then is definitely qualifies. Come on, BDD was very recently coined by someone writing a book which has a relatively small following. Maybe it should become bigger. Maybe not. Even the Wikipedia definition, which someone else quoted, does not mean much to me. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
introducing Lettuce, BDD tool for python with Django integration
There is not much to say, the documentation is at http://lettuce.it, and the code is GNU/GPL3+ located at http://github.com/gabrielfalcao/lettuce There is a blog post introducing it at http://gabrielfalcao.com/2010/06/08/lettuce-0-1-official-release/ http://gabrielfalcao.com/2010/06/08/lettuce-0-1-official-release/ -- :wq Att __ Gabriel Falcão Jabber: gabrielfal...@jabber-br.org Blog: http://gabrielfalcao.com -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: introducing Lettuce, BDD tool for python with Django integration
There's another BDD tool, also based on Cucumber, but it's more mature: http://github.com/rlisagor/freshen We don't have a website yet, and if you wish to collaborate, then join us :) Best regards, Francisco Souza Software developer at Giran and also full time Open source evangelist at full time http://www.franciscosouza.com.br Twitter: @franciscosouza (27) 3026 0264 2010/6/8 Gabriel Falcão gabrieltera...@gmail.com There is not much to say, the documentation is at http://lettuce.it, and the code is GNU/GPL3+ located at http://github.com/gabrielfalcao/lettuce There is a blog post introducing it at http://gabrielfalcao.com/2010/06/08/lettuce-0-1-official-release/ http://gabrielfalcao.com/2010/06/08/lettuce-0-1-official-release/ -- :wq Att __ Gabriel Falcão Jabber: gabrielfal...@jabber-br.org Blog: http://gabrielfalcao.com -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: introducing Lettuce, BDD tool for python with Django integration
On 6/8/2010 2:26 AM, Gabriel Falcão wrote: There is not much to say, except to explain 'BDD'. the documentation is at http://lettuce.it, and That does not explain it either, but links to http://pt.wikipedia.org/wiki/Behavior_Driven_Development which is the Portuguese version of http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Behavior_Driven_Development which most of us on this list will find more readable. the code is GNU/GPL3+ located at http://github.com/gabrielfalcao/lettuce There is a blog post introducing it at http://gabrielfalcao.com/2010/06/08/lettuce-0-1-official-release/ Terry Jan Reedy -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: introducing Lettuce, BDD tool for python with Django integration
On Jun 9, 3:29 am, Terry Reedy tjre...@udel.edu wrote: On 6/8/2010 2:26 AM, Gabriel Falcão wrote: There is not much to say, except to explain 'BDD'. If only there was some kind of way to quickly look up the meaning of definitions, preferably one known to people of the programming persuasion... -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: introducing Lettuce, BDD tool for python with Django integration
On Tue, Jun 8, 2010 at 9:18 PM, alex23 wuwe...@gmail.com wrote: On Jun 9, 3:29 am, Terry Reedy tjre...@udel.edu wrote: On 6/8/2010 2:26 AM, Gabriel Falcão wrote: There is not much to say, except to explain 'BDD'. If only there was some kind of way to quickly look up the meaning of definitions, preferably one known to people of the programming persuasion... I think his point may have been that there could be more than one meaning. My first guess would have been binary decision diagram. \t -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: introducing Lettuce, BDD tool for python with Django integration
Tycho Andersen ty...@tycho.ws wrote: I think his point may have been that there could be more than one meaning. My first guess would have been binary decision diagram. Ah, good point. My apologies for the dig, Terry :) -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
