Re: more on unescaping escapes

2009-02-24 Thread Rhodri James 

On Tue, 24 Feb 2009 00:46:34 -, bvdp b...@mellowood.ca wrote:

Just because I never really thought too much about it :) I'm doing my  
work on a linux box and my user is on windows ... and he's used to using  
'\' ... but, you are absolutely right! Just use '/' on both systems and  
be done with it. Of course I still need to use \x20 for spaces, but that  
is easy.


Erm, no.  \x20 is exactly the same as   in a string literal.

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Re: more on unescaping escapes

2009-02-24 Thread Adam Olsen 
On Feb 23, 7:18 pm, bvdp b...@mellowood.ca wrote:
 Gabriel Genellina wrote:
  En Mon, 23 Feb 2009 23:31:20 -0200, bvdp b...@mellowood.ca escribió:
  Gabriel Genellina wrote:
  En Mon, 23 Feb 2009 22:46:34 -0200, bvdp b...@mellowood.ca escribió:
  Chris Rebert wrote:
  On Mon, Feb 23, 2009 at 4:26 PM, bvdp b...@mellowood.ca wrote:

  [problem with Python and Windows paths using backslashes]
   Is there any particular reason you can't just internally use regular
  forward-slashes for the paths? [...]

  you are absolutely right! Just use '/' on both systems and be done
  with it. Of course I still need to use \x20 for spaces, but that is
  easy.
  Why is that? \x20 is exactly the same as  . It's not like %20 in
  URLs, that becomes a space only after decoding.

  I need to use the \x20 because of my parser. I'm reading unquoted
  lines from a file. The file creater needs to use the form foo\x20bar
  without the quotes in the file so my parser can read it as a single
  token. Later, the string/token needs to be decoded with the \x20
  converted to a space.

  So, in my file foo bar (no quotes) is read as 2 tokens; foo\x20bar
  is one.

  So, it's not really a problem of what happens when you assign a string
  in the form foo bar, rather how to convert the \x20 in a string to a
  space. I think the \\ just complicates the entire issue.

  Just thinking, if you was reading the string from a file, why were you
  worried about \\ and \ in the first place? (Ok, you moved to use / so
  this is moot now).

 Just cruft introduced while I was trying to figure it all out. Having to
 figure the \\ and \x20 at same time with file and keyboard input just
 confused the entire issue :) Having the user set a line like
 c:\\Program\x20File ... works just fine. I'll suggest he use
 c:/program\x20files to make it bit simple for HIM, not my parser.
 Unfortunately, due to some bad design decisions on my part about 5 years
 ago I'm afraid I'm stuck with the \x20.

 Thanks.

You're confusing the python source with the actual contents of the
string.  We already do one pass at decoding, which is why \x20 is
quite literally no different from a space:

 '\x20'
' '

However, the interactive interpreter uses repr(x), so various
characters that are considered formatting, such as a tab, get
reescaped when printing:

 '\t'
'\t'
 len('\t')
1

It really is a tab that gets stored there, not the escape for one.

Finally, if you give python an unknown escape it passes it leaves it
as an escape.  Then, when the interactive interpreter uses repr(x), it
is the backslash itself that gets reescaped:

 '\P'
'\\P'
 len('\P')
2
 list('\P')
['\\', 'P']

What does this all mean?  If you want to test your parser with python
literals you need to escape them twice, like so:

 'c:Program\\x20Filestest'
'c:Program\\x20Filestest'
 list('c:Program\\x20Filestest')
['c', ':', '\\', '\\', 'P', 'r', 'o', 'g', 'r', 'a', 'm', '\\', 'x',
'2', '0', 'F', 'i', 'l', 'e', 's', '\\', '\\', 't', 'e', 's', 't']
 'c:Program\\x20Filestest'.decode('string-escape')
'c:\\Program Files\\test'
 list('c:Program\\x20Filestest'.decode('string-escape'))
['c', ':', '\\', 'P', 'r', 'o', 'g', 'r', 'a', 'm', ' ', 'F', 'i',
'l', 'e', 's', '\\', 't', 'e', 's', 't']

However, there's an easier way: use raw strings, which prevent python
from unescaping anything:

 r'c:\\Program\x20Files\\test'
'c:Program\\x20Filestest'
 list(r'c:\\Program\x20Files\\test')
['c', ':', '\\', '\\', 'P', 'r', 'o', 'g', 'r', 'a', 'm', '\\', 'x',
'2', '0', 'F', 'i', 'l', 'e', 's', '\\', '\\', 't', 'e', 's', 't']
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Re: more on unescaping escapes

2009-02-24 Thread bvdp 

Adam Olsen wrote:

On Feb 23, 7:18 pm, bvdp b...@mellowood.ca wrote:

Gabriel Genellina wrote:

En Mon, 23 Feb 2009 23:31:20 -0200, bvdp b...@mellowood.ca escribió:

Gabriel Genellina wrote:

En Mon, 23 Feb 2009 22:46:34 -0200, bvdp b...@mellowood.ca escribió:

Chris Rebert wrote:

On Mon, Feb 23, 2009 at 4:26 PM, bvdp b...@mellowood.ca wrote:
[problem with Python and Windows paths using backslashes]
 Is there any particular reason you can't just internally use regular
forward-slashes for the paths? [...]

you are absolutely right! Just use '/' on both systems and be done
with it. Of course I still need to use \x20 for spaces, but that is
easy.

Why is that? \x20 is exactly the same as  . It's not like %20 in
URLs, that becomes a space only after decoding.

I need to use the \x20 because of my parser. I'm reading unquoted
lines from a file. The file creater needs to use the form foo\x20bar
without the quotes in the file so my parser can read it as a single
token. Later, the string/token needs to be decoded with the \x20
converted to a space.
So, in my file foo bar (no quotes) is read as 2 tokens; foo\x20bar
is one.
So, it's not really a problem of what happens when you assign a string
in the form foo bar, rather how to convert the \x20 in a string to a
space. I think the \\ just complicates the entire issue.

Just thinking, if you was reading the string from a file, why were you
worried about \\ and \ in the first place? (Ok, you moved to use / so
this is moot now).

Just cruft introduced while I was trying to figure it all out. Having to
figure the \\ and \x20 at same time with file and keyboard input just
confused the entire issue :) Having the user set a line like
c:\\Program\x20File ... works just fine. I'll suggest he use
c:/program\x20files to make it bit simple for HIM, not my parser.
Unfortunately, due to some bad design decisions on my part about 5 years
ago I'm afraid I'm stuck with the \x20.

Thanks.


You're confusing the python source with the actual contents of the
string.  We already do one pass at decoding, which is why \x20 is
quite literally no different from a space:


'\x20'

' '

However, the interactive interpreter uses repr(x), so various
characters that are considered formatting, such as a tab, get
reescaped when printing:


'\t'

'\t'

len('\t')

1

It really is a tab that gets stored there, not the escape for one.

Finally, if you give python an unknown escape it passes it leaves it
as an escape.  Then, when the interactive interpreter uses repr(x), it
is the backslash itself that gets reescaped:


'\P'

'\\P'

len('\P')

2

list('\P')

['\\', 'P']

What does this all mean?  If you want to test your parser with python
literals you need to escape them twice, like so:


'c:Program\\x20Filestest'

'c:Program\\x20Filestest'

list('c:Program\\x20Filestest')

['c', ':', '\\', '\\', 'P', 'r', 'o', 'g', 'r', 'a', 'm', '\\', 'x',
'2', '0', 'F', 'i', 'l', 'e', 's', '\\', '\\', 't', 'e', 's', 't']

'c:Program\\x20Filestest'.decode('string-escape')

'c:\\Program Files\\test'

list('c:Program\\x20Filestest'.decode('string-escape'))

['c', ':', '\\', 'P', 'r', 'o', 'g', 'r', 'a', 'm', ' ', 'F', 'i',
'l', 'e', 's', '\\', 't', 'e', 's', 't']

However, there's an easier way: use raw strings, which prevent python
from unescaping anything:


r'c:\\Program\x20Files\\test'

'c:Program\\x20Filestest'

list(r'c:\\Program\x20Files\\test')

['c', ':', '\\', '\\', 'P', 'r', 'o', 'g', 'r', 'a', 'm', '\\', 'x',
'2', '0', 'F', 'i', 'l', 'e', 's', '\\', '\\', 't', 'e', 's', 't']


Thank you. That is very clear. Appreciate your time.
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more on unescaping escapes

2009-02-23 Thread bvdp 


So, we think something is working and send of a bug fix to our client :)

I'm not sure I understand this at all and wonder if there is bug?

 a=c:\\Program\x20Files\\test
 a
'c:\\Program Files\\test'

so far, so good.

 a.decode(string-escape)
'c:\\Program Files\test'

Umm, not so good? The \\ before the P is okay, but the \\t is change to \t

and

 print a.decode(string-escape)
c:\Program Filesest

Now, decode() converted the \\t to a \t and print expanded the \t to a tab.

I would have thought that the \\t would have the same result as the \\P ???

Obviously my brain is missing something (hopefully obvious).

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Re: more on unescaping escapes

2009-02-23 Thread MRAB 

bvdp wrote:


So, we think something is working and send of a bug fix to our client :)

I'm not sure I understand this at all and wonder if there is bug?

  a=c:\\Program\x20Files\\test
  a
'c:\\Program Files\\test'

so far, so good.

  a.decode(string-escape)
'c:\\Program Files\test'

Umm, not so good? The \\ before the P is okay, but the \\t is change to \t


Decoding changes \\x20 to \x20, which is the same as  , a space.

Decoding changes \\t to \t, which is a tab.

Decoding _doesn't_ change \\P to \P because that's not a valid
escape sequence.


and

  print a.decode(string-escape)
c:\Program Filesest

Now, decode() converted the \\t to a \t and print expanded the \t to a tab.


\t is already a tab.


I would have thought that the \\t would have the same result as the \\P ???

Obviously my brain is missing something (hopefully obvious).


Before storing the string (writing it to the file), encode it and then
replace   with \\x20:

C:\Program Files\test

becomes:

C:\Program Files\test

and then:

C:\\Program\x20Files\\test

After fetching the string (reading it from the file), decode it:

C:\\Program\x20Files\\test

becomes:

C:\Program Files\test

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Re: more on unescaping escapes

2009-02-23 Thread bvdp 


I'm getting hopelessly lost in a series of \\\ s :)

Let's see if this makes sense:

 a='c:\\Program Files\\test'
 a.decode('string-escape')
'c:\\Program Files\test'

In this case there are still 2 '\'s before the P; but only 1 before the 
't'. Now, when it comes time to open the file windows accepts double 
'\'s in the filename. So, life is fine. But, the essential part here is 
that we're lucky we can use '\\' or '\' in a path. What if this wasn't true?


The following shows a bit of difference:

 a='c:\Program Files\test'
 a
'c:\\Program Files\test'

In this case the interpreter has changed the '\P' to '\\P'. And if one 
lists the string the '\t' really is a tab. No decode() at all in any of 
this.


I guess the general rule would be to double up '\'s in filenames and (in 
my program's case) to use the \x20 for spaces.


Thanks.
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Re: more on unescaping escapes

2009-02-23 Thread andrew cooke 

do you know that a string with the letter r in front doesn't escape
slashes?  it's intended for regular expressions, but would simplify things
for you here too.

just do

  a=r'c:\\Program Files\test'

andrew


bvdp wrote:

 I'm getting hopelessly lost in a series of \\\ s :)

 Let's see if this makes sense:

   a='c:\\Program Files\\test'
   a.decode('string-escape')
 'c:\\Program Files\test'

 In this case there are still 2 '\'s before the P; but only 1 before the
 't'. Now, when it comes time to open the file windows accepts double
 '\'s in the filename. So, life is fine. But, the essential part here is
 that we're lucky we can use '\\' or '\' in a path. What if this wasn't
 true?

 The following shows a bit of difference:

   a='c:\Program Files\test'
   a
 'c:\\Program Files\test'

 In this case the interpreter has changed the '\P' to '\\P'. And if one
 lists the string the '\t' really is a tab. No decode() at all in any of
 this.

 I guess the general rule would be to double up '\'s in filenames and (in
 my program's case) to use the \x20 for spaces.

 Thanks.
 --
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Re: more on unescaping escapes

2009-02-23 Thread Tim Wintle 
On Mon, 2009-02-23 at 17:00 -0700, bvdp wrote:
 Let's see if this makes sense:
 
   a='c:\\Program Files\\test'
   a.decode('string-escape')
 'c:\\Program Files\test'

Hint: try running

 print a

and see what's written - I think that the interpreter adds extra \
characters to escape things and make things more easy to read.

i.e. 

 a = c:\\test\\t
 a
'c:\\test\\t'
 print a
c:\test\t
 

so when it displays strings in the interpreter it includes escape
characters, when it is printed though the output is straight to stdout
and isn't escaped.

Hope that helps,

Tim Wintle


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Re: more on unescaping escapes

2009-02-23 Thread bvdp 

andrew cooke wrote:

do you know that a string with the letter r in front doesn't escape
slashes?  it's intended for regular expressions, but would simplify things
for you here too.

just do

  a=r'c:\\Program Files\test'



Yes, I knew that. Unfortunately in my program loop I really don't have 
the opportuity to use a raw string.


But, good reminder. Thanks.

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Re: more on unescaping escapes

2009-02-23 Thread bvdp 

Tim Wintle wrote:

On Mon, 2009-02-23 at 17:00 -0700, bvdp wrote:

Let's see if this makes sense:

  a='c:\\Program Files\\test'
  a.decode('string-escape')
'c:\\Program Files\test'


Hint: try running


print a


and see what's written - I think that the interpreter adds extra \
characters to escape things and make things more easy to read.

i.e. 


a = c:\\test\\t
a

'c:\\test\\t'

print a

c:\test\t

so when it displays strings in the interpreter it includes escape
characters, when it is printed though the output is straight to stdout
and isn't escaped.

Hope that helps,

Tim Wintle


Not sure if it's more clear or not :)

 a=c:\\Program\x20Files\\test
 a
'c:\\Program Files\\test'
 print a
c:\Program Files\test

Which is all fine. And I didn't need to use decode().

So, in this case I'm assuming that the interpreter is converting the 
escapes on assignment. And, in this case the string has single \s in it.


So far this is making sense. So, when I do a decode() the \t is 
converted to a tab, etc.


I think my problem may be in viewing an assignment like that above as 
opposed to reading a line from a file with '\'s and '\x20's in it. In 
this case the assignment doesn't do the conversion (and that is a good 
thing!). Now, when I go to save the variable with the escapes I use 
decode() and it works.


Just a matter of consistantly using a method I suppose. Still, confusing 
between my program reading data from a file and doing testing of strings 
at the interpreter. Best to do one or the other, not both.






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Re: more on unescaping escapes

2009-02-23 Thread Rhodri James 

On Mon, 23 Feb 2009 22:05:42 -, bvdp b...@mellowood.ca wrote:



So, we think something is working and send of a bug fix to our client :)

I'm not sure I understand this at all and wonder if there is bug?

  a=c:\\Program\x20Files\\test
  a
'c:\\Program Files\\test'

so far, so good.

  a.decode(string-escape)
'c:\\Program Files\test'

Umm, not so good? The \\ before the P is okay, but the \\t is change to  
\t


Well yes, that's what you asked it to do.  The string-escape decoder
reads the string and replaces escape sequences with the corresponding
characters.  Bear in mind that it's the string as it really is that is
being operated on, not the representation of it that you displayed
above.  In other words:

b = a.decode(string-escape)

is equivalent to:

b = C:\Program Files\test

\P isn't a valid escape sequence, so it doesn't get replaced.  \t
represents a tab, so it does.

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Re: more on unescaping escapes

2009-02-23 Thread Rhodri James 

On Tue, 24 Feb 2009 00:26:29 -, bvdp b...@mellowood.ca wrote:

So, in this case I'm assuming that the interpreter is converting the  
escapes on assignment.


The compiler converts the escapes on creating its internal
representation of the string, before assignment ever gets
involved.

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Re: more on unescaping escapes

2009-02-23 Thread Chris Rebert 
On Mon, Feb 23, 2009 at 4:26 PM, bvdp b...@mellowood.ca wrote:
[problem with Python and Windows paths using backslashes]

Is there any particular reason you can't just internally use regular
forward-slashes for the paths? They work in Windows from Python in
nearly all cases and you can easily interconvert using os.pathsep if
you want the path to be pretty when you show it to (or get it from)
the user or whatever.

Cheers,
Chris

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Re: more on unescaping escapes

2009-02-23 Thread bvdp 

Chris Rebert wrote:

On Mon, Feb 23, 2009 at 4:26 PM, bvdp b...@mellowood.ca wrote:
[problem with Python and Windows paths using backslashes]

Is there any particular reason you can't just internally use regular
forward-slashes for the paths? They work in Windows from Python in
nearly all cases and you can easily interconvert using os.pathsep if
you want the path to be pretty when you show it to (or get it from)
the user or whatever.

Cheers,
Chris



Just because I never really thought too much about it :) I'm doing my 
work on a linux box and my user is on windows ... and he's used to using 
'\' ... but, you are absolutely right! Just use '/' on both systems and 
be done with it. Of course I still need to use \x20 for spaces, but that 
is easy.


Thanks for the suggestion!
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Re: more on unescaping escapes

2009-02-23 Thread bvdp 



Bear in mind that it's the string as it really is that is
being operated on, not the representation of it that you displayed


Yes, that is the confusion ... what is displayed and what's actually in 
the string.


I think I understand it all now :)

Thanks.

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Re: more on unescaping escapes

2009-02-23 Thread Mel 
bvdp wrote:
 Not sure if it's more clear or not :)
 
   a=c:\\Program\x20Files\\test
   a
 'c:\\Program Files\\test'
   print a
 c:\Program Files\test
 
 Which is all fine. And I didn't need to use decode().
 
 So, in this case I'm assuming that the interpreter is converting the
 escapes on assignment. And, in this case the string has single \s in it.

Strictly speaking, the compiler is converting the escapes when it uses the
literal to create a string value.

Mel.

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Re: more on unescaping escapes

2009-02-23 Thread Gabriel Genellina 

En Mon, 23 Feb 2009 22:46:34 -0200, bvdp b...@mellowood.ca escribió:


Chris Rebert wrote:

On Mon, Feb 23, 2009 at 4:26 PM, bvdp b...@mellowood.ca wrote:
[problem with Python and Windows paths using backslashes]
 Is there any particular reason you can't just internally use regular
forward-slashes for the paths? They work in Windows from Python in
nearly all cases and you can easily interconvert using os.pathsep if
you want the path to be pretty when you show it to (or get it from)
the user or whatever.


Just because I never really thought too much about it :) I'm doing my  
work on a linux box and my user is on windows ... and he's used to using  
'\' ... but, you are absolutely right! Just use '/' on both systems and  
be done with it. Of course I still need to use \x20 for spaces, but that  
is easy.


Why is that? \x20 is exactly the same as  . It's not like %20 in URLs,  
that becomes a space only after decoding.


py '\x20' == ' '
True
py '\x20' is ' '
True

(ok, the last line might show False, but being True means that both are  
the very same object)


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Re: more on unescaping escapes

2009-02-23 Thread bvdp 

Gabriel Genellina wrote:

En Mon, 23 Feb 2009 22:46:34 -0200, bvdp b...@mellowood.ca escribió:


Chris Rebert wrote:

On Mon, Feb 23, 2009 at 4:26 PM, bvdp b...@mellowood.ca wrote:
[problem with Python and Windows paths using backslashes]
 Is there any particular reason you can't just internally use regular
forward-slashes for the paths? They work in Windows from Python in
nearly all cases and you can easily interconvert using os.pathsep if
you want the path to be pretty when you show it to (or get it from)
the user or whatever.


Just because I never really thought too much about it :) I'm doing my 
work on a linux box and my user is on windows ... and he's used to 
using '\' ... but, you are absolutely right! Just use '/' on both 
systems and be done with it. Of course I still need to use \x20 for 
spaces, but that is easy.


Why is that? \x20 is exactly the same as  . It's not like %20 in 
URLs, that becomes a space only after decoding.


py '\x20' == ' '
True
py '\x20' is ' '
True

(ok, the last line might show False, but being True means that both are 
the very same object)




I need to use the \x20 because of my parser. I'm reading unquoted lines 
from a file. The file creater needs to use the form foo\x20bar without 
the quotes in the file so my parser can read it as a single token. 
Later, the string/token needs to be decoded with the \x20 converted to a 
space.


So, in my file foo bar (no quotes) is read as 2 tokens; foo\x20bar 
is one.


So, it's not really a problem of what happens when you assign a string 
in the form foo bar, rather how to convert the \x20 in a string to a 
space. I think the \\ just complicates the entire issue.

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Re: more on unescaping escapes

2009-02-23 Thread Gabriel Genellina 

En Mon, 23 Feb 2009 23:31:20 -0200, bvdp b...@mellowood.ca escribió:

Gabriel Genellina wrote:

En Mon, 23 Feb 2009 22:46:34 -0200, bvdp b...@mellowood.ca escribió:

Chris Rebert wrote:

On Mon, Feb 23, 2009 at 4:26 PM, bvdp b...@mellowood.ca wrote:



[problem with Python and Windows paths using backslashes]
 Is there any particular reason you can't just internally use regular
forward-slashes for the paths? [...]


you are absolutely right! Just use '/' on both systems and be done  
with it. Of course I still need to use \x20 for spaces, but that is  
easy.
Why is that? \x20 is exactly the same as  . It's not like %20 in  
URLs, that becomes a space only after decoding.


I need to use the \x20 because of my parser. I'm reading unquoted lines  
from a file. The file creater needs to use the form foo\x20bar without  
the quotes in the file so my parser can read it as a single token.  
Later, the string/token needs to be decoded with the \x20 converted to a  
space.


So, in my file foo bar (no quotes) is read as 2 tokens; foo\x20bar  
is one.


So, it's not really a problem of what happens when you assign a string  
in the form foo bar, rather how to convert the \x20 in a string to a  
space. I think the \\ just complicates the entire issue.


Just thinking, if you was reading the string from a file, why were you  
worried about \\ and \ in the first place? (Ok, you moved to use / so this  
is moot now).


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Re: more on unescaping escapes

2009-02-23 Thread bvdp 

Gabriel Genellina wrote:

En Mon, 23 Feb 2009 23:31:20 -0200, bvdp b...@mellowood.ca escribió:

Gabriel Genellina wrote:

En Mon, 23 Feb 2009 22:46:34 -0200, bvdp b...@mellowood.ca escribió:

Chris Rebert wrote:

On Mon, Feb 23, 2009 at 4:26 PM, bvdp b...@mellowood.ca wrote:



[problem with Python and Windows paths using backslashes]
 Is there any particular reason you can't just internally use regular
forward-slashes for the paths? [...]


you are absolutely right! Just use '/' on both systems and be done 
with it. Of course I still need to use \x20 for spaces, but that is 
easy.
Why is that? \x20 is exactly the same as  . It's not like %20 in 
URLs, that becomes a space only after decoding.


I need to use the \x20 because of my parser. I'm reading unquoted 
lines from a file. The file creater needs to use the form foo\x20bar 
without the quotes in the file so my parser can read it as a single 
token. Later, the string/token needs to be decoded with the \x20 
converted to a space.


So, in my file foo bar (no quotes) is read as 2 tokens; foo\x20bar 
is one.


So, it's not really a problem of what happens when you assign a string 
in the form foo bar, rather how to convert the \x20 in a string to a 
space. I think the \\ just complicates the entire issue.


Just thinking, if you was reading the string from a file, why were you 
worried about \\ and \ in the first place? (Ok, you moved to use / so 
this is moot now).




Just cruft introduced while I was trying to figure it all out. Having to 
figure the \\ and \x20 at same time with file and keyboard input just 
confused the entire issue :) Having the user set a line like 
c:\\Program\x20File ... works just fine. I'll suggest he use 
c:/program\x20files to make it bit simple for HIM, not my parser. 
Unfortunately, due to some bad design decisions on my part about 5 years 
ago I'm afraid I'm stuck with the \x20.


Thanks.

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