Re: pyjamas / pyjs
On May 4, 11:43 pm, Duncan Booth duncan.bo...@invalid.invalid wrote: In case it isn't obvious why I might be subscribed but emails turned off, I read mailing lists like that through gmane in which case I still need to sign up to the list to post but definitely don't want to receive emails. This. I was surprised to suddenly start receiving emails, as I thought I'd left the pyjamas list _years_ ago. I've asked them to stop spamming me and even now and getting snide, shitty emails claiming that what they were doing wasn't spam as I could have chosen to ignore it or delete it. I've had to email the abuse address at Rackspace. I'm pretty sure it's illegal to add people to a mailing list without their consent, to not include instructions on how to unsubscribe from the mailing list, and to continue to email them when they've asked to be removed. As for the project itself, having a bunch of arrogant assholes decide that the lead developer has hijacked the project with his explicit- from-the-start libre software philosophies, because such belief runs counter to the desires - sorry, the philosophies - held by that core group of assholes, is just the must astounding hypocrisy I've ever seen. The correct approach in such an instance is to *fork* the project; but that way you don't get to steal the community, I guess. The unwanted email was bad enough. The overwhelming sense of entitlement those emails expressed was even worse. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: pyjamas / pyjs
On 5/4/2012 12:52 AM, John O'Hagan wrote: Just read the thread on pyjamas-dev. Even without knowing anything about the lead-up to the coup, its leader's linguistic contortions trying to justify it And what is the name of the miscreant, so we know who to have nothing to with? -- Terry Jan Reedy -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: pyjamas / pyjs
On Thursday, 3 May 2012 12:52:36 UTC+1, alex23 wrote: Anyone else following the apparent hijack of the pyjs project from its lead developer? Yes, me. The guy now in control got the owner of the domain name to turn it over to him, which is probably ok legally, but he had no public mandate or support. As far as I can see from the mailing list, only 3 or 4 out of the 650 subscribers actively support his actions. He's a long time contributor and genuinely seems quite talented. However there's no getting away from the fact that he's done this undemocratically, when he could have forked the project. To my mind he hasn't made a good enough reasoned justification of his arguments and he's coming across as being very defensive at the moment. The former leader, Luke Leighton, seemed to have vanished from the face of the earth but I mailed him yesterday and he's on holiday so trying not to pay too much attention to it at the moment. There's also an allegation, which I am not making myself at this point - only describing its nature, that a person may have lifted data from the original mail server without authorisation and used it to recreate the mailing list on a different machine. *If* that were to be true, then the law has been broken in at least one country. I'm arguing that there should be a public consultation over who gets to run this project and I'm also thinking of making a suggestion to the python software foundation or maybe other bodies such as the FSF (I'm not a FOSS expert but they were suggested by others) that they host a fork of this project so that we can have a legitimate and stable route forward. The problem for me with all this is that I use pyjamas in a commercial capacity and (sorry if this sounds vague but I have to be a bit careful) there are probably going to be issues with our clients - corporate people distrust FOSS at the best of times and this kind of thing will make them run for the bloody hills. In fact, there appear to be a lot of sleeper users who make a living out of this stuff and the actions of the new de-facto leader has jeopardised this, pretty needlessly in our opinion. James -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: pyjamas / pyjs
By the way, there's a lot more to say on this, which I'll cover another time. There are arguments for and against what's happened; at this stage I'm just trying to flag up that there is *not* unanimity and we are not just carrying on as normal. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: pyjamas / pyjs
james hedley jameskhed...@gmail.com wrote: There's also an allegation, which I am not making myself at this point - only describing its nature, that a person may have lifted data from the original mail server without authorisation and used it to recreate the mailing list on a different machine. *If* that were to be true, then the law has been broken in at least one country. I don't know whether they moved it to another machine or not, but what they definitely did do was start sending emails to all the people on the list who had sending of emails disabled (including myself) which resulted in a flood of emails and from the sound of it a lot of annoyed people. If he wanted to community support for the takeover that probably wasn't a good start. In case it isn't obvious why I might be subscribed but emails turned off, I read mailing lists like that through gmane in which case I still need to sign up to the list to post but definitely don't want to receive emails. -- Duncan Booth http://kupuguy.blogspot.com -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: pyjamas / pyjs
Anyone else following the apparent hijack of the pyjs project from its lead developer? Not beyond what the lead developer has been posting on the newsgroup, no. Still a damn shame, though. What happens when you have an unresolvable ideological seperation like that is you branch, not take over. ~Temia -- When on earth, do as the earthlings do. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: pyjamas / pyjs
On Thu, May 3, 2012 at 5:52 AM, alex23 wuwe...@gmail.com wrote: Anyone else following the apparent hijack of the pyjs project from its lead developer? I've been following it but quietly since I don't use pyjs. It surprises me that nobody is talking much about it outside of the thread on pyjamas-dev. Seems to me that any credibility in the long-term stability of the project has been pretty much shot. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: pyjamas / pyjs
On Thu, 3 May 2012 04:52:36 -0700 (PDT) alex23 wuwe...@gmail.com wrote: Anyone else following the apparent hijack of the pyjs project from its lead developer? -- Just read the thread on pyjamas-dev. Even without knowing anything about the lead-up to the coup, its leader's linguistic contortions trying to justify it (i have retired Luke of the management duties), and his eagerness to change the subject (let's move into more productive areas of discussion, and this is the path forward; make good of the newfound power) are indicative of a guilty conscience or an underdeveloped sense of ethics. He's convinced himself that his actions were technically legal; get this: i would recommend you terminate thought paths regarding criminal activity, and please don't make me further intervene or forcibly terminate additional threats or remarks. there is no case to be had! But I am having trouble imagining a scenario where sneakily acquiring the domain name and copying all the source and mailinglist data to your own server would be preferable to just forking, which is what everyone knows you're supposed to do in cases where the boss is too FOSS for your taste, or whatever the problem was. Seems like a great deal of hurt has occurred, both to people and to the project, just to save the administrative hassle of forking. In the words of the hijacker, he was going to fork but an opportunity presented itself, and i ran with it. Nice. -- John -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
