Re: python is great
python is great. No. Python is VERY GREAT !!! All right now, everyone... Every Python's sacred, every Python's great, If any Python's wasted, Guido gets irate! -- Greg -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: python is great
>> And there are >> some things (such as Flash-style web applets) that you still can't do >> at all in Python, even after all these years. > > You're looking for Silverlight: > > http://www.voidspace.org.uk/ironpython/silverlight/index.shtml or clutter which has Python bindings http://www.clutter-project.org/ -- дамјан ( http://softver.org.mk/damjan/ ) Hi! I'm a .signature virus! copy me into your .signature file to help me spread! -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: python is great
> > I use Andrea Gavana's GUI2Exe to create my binaries. He recently added > a py2app wrapper to it. I don't have a Mac, so I haven't tested that > part of his app. However, the py2exe portion rocks! I put in the path > to my main Python executable, add any special 3rd party modules and it > just works! I've written a tutorial for the py2exe part of it if > you're interested... > Can you post the link to this tutorial? If you want to save me the trouble, then I'd like to see those notes. > If you want, I can host the notes at dotancohen.com to that they will > be publicaly accessible. > Any more news on this research? -Alex Goretoy http://www.alexgoretoy.com somebodywhoca...@gmail.com On Tue, Jan 6, 2009 at 9:24 PM, Mike Driscoll wrote: > On Jan 6, 2:24 pm, Joe Strout wrote: > > M.-A. Lemburg wrote: > > >> On the Mac in particular, if you want > > >> your app to run on any PowerPC or Intel machine runing 10.4 or later, > > >> and you're using anything not in the standard framework (such as > > >> MySQLdb), it's a bit of a nightmare. > > > > > You're looking for py2app: > > > > >http://undefined.org/python/py2app.html > > > > No, I'm *using* py2app. I've been trying to use it for a couple of > > weeks now, with the generous help of such people as Robin Dunn, and I > > still don't have it quite working properly. (I'd be happy to send you > > my notes on what was required to get as far as I've gotten, but it's > > several pages, a bit long to post here.) > > > > (py2exe works a little more easily, thank goodness.) > > > > >> So I would say that Python as a language is great, and its standard > > >> framework is great. But its (many) IDEs are pretty poor, and the > > >> process of building a polished, packaged app is abysmal. > > > > > It's certainly work, but that's always the case for nicely polished > > > apps :-) > > > > In Python, yes. :) Not in all environments. > > > > > For packaging, you can choose from a multitude of installer builders - > > > none of which are really Python specific. > > > > I'm not even talking about that level of packaging -- I'm just talking > > about making something that appears to the user like a normal > > executable, which they can double-click on their system and have it > > actually run, rather than aborting with something unhelpful like "No > > module named MySQLdb". > > > > >> And there are > > >> some things (such as Flash-style web applets) that you still can't do > at > > >> all in Python, even after all these years. > > > > > You're looking for Silverlight: > > >http://www.voidspace.org.uk/ironpython/silverlight/index.shtml > > > > Maybe. I'm not a big fan of anything so Microsoftian, but I'll admit > > that this does mostly fit the bill I described above (or has the > > potential to, anyway). > > > > Thanks, > > - Joe > > I use Andrea Gavana's GUI2Exe to create my binaries. He recently added > a py2app wrapper to it. I don't have a Mac, so I haven't tested that > part of his app. However, the py2exe portion rocks! I put in the path > to my main Python executable, add any special 3rd party modules and it > just works! I've written a tutorial for the py2exe part of it if > you're interested... > > Mike > -- > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list > -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: python is great
On Jan 6, 2:24Â pm, Joe Strout wrote: > M.-A. Lemburg wrote: > >> On the Mac in particular, if you want > >> your app to run on any PowerPC or Intel machine runing 10.4 or later, > >> and you're using anything not in the standard framework (such as > >> MySQLdb), it's a bit of a nightmare. > > > You're looking for py2app: > > >http://undefined.org/python/py2app.html > > No, I'm *using* py2app. Â I've been trying to use it for a couple of > weeks now, with the generous help of such people as Robin Dunn, and I > still don't have it quite working properly. Â (I'd be happy to send you > my notes on what was required to get as far as I've gotten, but it's > several pages, a bit long to post here.) > > (py2exe works a little more easily, thank goodness.) > > >> So I would say that Python as a language is great, and its standard > >> framework is great. Â But its (many) IDEs are pretty poor, and the > >> process of building a polished, packaged app is abysmal. > > > It's certainly work, but that's always the case for nicely polished > > apps :-) > > In Python, yes. Â :) Â Not in all environments. > > > For packaging, you can choose from a multitude of installer builders - > > none of which are really Python specific. > > I'm not even talking about that level of packaging -- I'm just talking > about making something that appears to the user like a normal > executable, which they can double-click on their system and have it > actually run, rather than aborting with something unhelpful like "No > module named MySQLdb". > > >> And there are > >> some things (such as Flash-style web applets) that you still can't do at > >> all in Python, even after all these years. > > > You're looking for Silverlight: > >http://www.voidspace.org.uk/ironpython/silverlight/index.shtml > > Maybe. Â I'm not a big fan of anything so Microsoftian, but I'll admit > that this does mostly fit the bill I described above (or has the > potential to, anyway). > > Thanks, > - Joe I use Andrea Gavana's GUI2Exe to create my binaries. He recently added a py2app wrapper to it. I don't have a Mac, so I haven't tested that part of his app. However, the py2exe portion rocks! I put in the path to my main Python executable, add any special 3rd party modules and it just works! I've written a tutorial for the py2exe part of it if you're interested... Mike -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: python is great
On 2009-01-06 21:24, Joe Strout wrote: > M.-A. Lemburg wrote: > >>> On the Mac in particular, if you want >>> your app to run on any PowerPC or Intel machine runing 10.4 or later, >>> and you're using anything not in the standard framework (such as >>> MySQLdb), it's a bit of a nightmare. >>> >> >> You're looking for py2app: >> >> http://undefined.org/python/py2app.html > > No, I'm *using* py2app. I've been trying to use it for a couple of > weeks now, with the generous help of such people as Robin Dunn, and I > still don't have it quite working properly. (I'd be happy to send you > my notes on what was required to get as far as I've gotten, but it's > several pages, a bit long to post here.) Perhaps not post it here, but put it up on the web somewhere and link to it from the Python.org wiki. > (py2exe works a little more easily, thank goodness.) We're using py2exe to wrap up apps on Windows and then pass them on to InnoSetup for creating the installer. On Unix, we tried using cx_Freeze, but that had too many issues. We've then modified and updated an old project of mine, called mxCGIPython, to create a one file Python interpreter and use that with the applications: http://www.egenix.com/www2002/python/mxCGIPython.html One of these days, we're going to release the new version as OSS. >>> So I would say that Python as a language is great, and its standard >>> framework is great. But its (many) IDEs are pretty poor, and the >>> process of building a polished, packaged app is abysmal. >> >> It's certainly work, but that's always the case for nicely polished >> apps :-) > > In Python, yes. :) Not in all environments. Hmm, I'm not only referring to nice looking GUIs. Those are only part of the game. More important is well working application, without any annoying bugs. >> For packaging, you can choose from a multitude of installer builders - >> none of which are really Python specific. > > I'm not even talking about that level of packaging -- I'm just talking > about making something that appears to the user like a normal > executable, which they can double-click on their system and have it > actually run, rather than aborting with something unhelpful like "No > module named MySQLdb". That's part of polishing the application, IMHO. For point-and-click apps, you need to include all the required dependencies together with the application. >>> And there are >>> some things (such as Flash-style web applets) that you still can't do at >>> all in Python, even after all these years. >> >> You're looking for Silverlight: >> http://www.voidspace.org.uk/ironpython/silverlight/index.shtml > > Maybe. I'm not a big fan of anything so Microsoftian, but I'll admit > that this does mostly fit the bill I described above (or has the > potential to, anyway). Ok, how about a Firefox Extension, then... http://pyxpcomext.mozdev.org/ together with a shell: http://pyxpcomext.mozdev.org/samples.html#pyshell With this plugin you write the GUI using XUL and JavaScript... and after some polishing, which includes dropping the Firefox GUI and turning to XULRunner, you can create apps such as Miro: http://www.getmiro.com/ and watch TED videos driven by Python (and a gazillion other tools working for you behind the scenes). -- Marc-Andre Lemburg eGenix.com Professional Python Services directly from the Source (#1, Jan 06 2009) >>> Python/Zope Consulting and Support ...http://www.egenix.com/ >>> mxODBC.Zope.Database.Adapter ... http://zope.egenix.com/ >>> mxODBC, mxDateTime, mxTextTools ...http://python.egenix.com/ ::: Try our new mxODBC.Connect Python Database Interface for free ! eGenix.com Software, Skills and Services GmbH Pastor-Loeh-Str.48 D-40764 Langenfeld, Germany. CEO Dipl.-Math. Marc-Andre Lemburg Registered at Amtsgericht Duesseldorf: HRB 46611 http://www.egenix.com/company/contact/ -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: python is great
2009/1/6 Joe Strout : > No, I'm *using* py2app. I've been trying to use it for a couple of weeks > now, with the generous help of such people as Robin Dunn, and I still don't > have it quite working properly. (I'd be happy to send you my notes on what > was required to get as far as I've gotten, but it's several pages, a bit > long to post here.) > If you want to save me the trouble, then I'd like to see those notes. If you want, I can host the notes at dotancohen.com to that they will be publicaly accessible. -- Dotan Cohen http://what-is-what.com http://gibberish.co.il ×-×-×-×-×-×-×-×-×-×-×-×-×-×-×-×-× -ס-×¢-×£-פ-×¥-צ-ק-ר-ש-ת ا-ب-ت-Ø«-ج-Ø-Ø®-د-Ø°-ر-ز-س-Ø´-ص-ض-Ø·-ظ-ع-غ-Ù-Ù-Ù-Ù-Ù -Ù-Ùâ-Ù-Ù Ð-Ð-Ð-Ð-Ð-Ð-Ð-Ð-Ð-Ð-Ð-Ð-Ð-Ð-Ð-Ð-Ð-Ð -С-Т-У-Ф-Ð¥-Ц-Ч-Ш-Щ-Ъ-Ы-Ь-Ð-Ю-Я а-б-в-г-д-е-Ñ-ж-з-и-й-к-л-м-н-о-п-Ñ-Ñ-Ñ-Ñ-Ñ-Ñ -Ñ-Ñ-Ñ-Ñ-Ñ-Ñ-Ñ-Ñ-Ñ-Ñ Ã¤-ö-ü-Ã-Ã-Ã-à -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: python is great
On Tue, Jan 6, 2009 at 3:24 PM, Joe Strout wrote: > M.-A. Lemburg wrote: > > On the Mac in particular, if you want >>> your app to run on any PowerPC or Intel machine runing 10.4 or later, >>> and you're using anything not in the standard framework (such as >>> MySQLdb), it's a bit of a nightmare. >>> >>> >> You're looking for py2app: >> >> http://undefined.org/python/py2app.html >> > > No, I'm *using* py2app. I've been trying to use it for a couple of weeks > now, with the generous help of such people as Robin Dunn, and I still don't > have it quite working properly. (I'd be happy to send you my notes on what > was required to get as far as I've gotten, but it's several pages, a bit > long to post here.) > > (py2exe works a little more easily, thank goodness.) > > So I would say that Python as a language is great, and its standard >>> framework is great. But its (many) IDEs are pretty poor, and the >>> process of building a polished, packaged app is abysmal. >>> >> >> It's certainly work, but that's always the case for nicely polished >> apps :-) >> > > In Python, yes. :) Not in all environments. > > For packaging, you can choose from a multitude of installer builders - >> none of which are really Python specific. >> > > I'm not even talking about that level of packaging -- I'm just talking > about making something that appears to the user like a normal executable, > which they can double-click on their system and have it actually run, rather > than aborting with something unhelpful like "No module named MySQLdb". > > And there are >>> some things (such as Flash-style web applets) that you still can't do at >>> all in Python, even after all these years. >>> >> >> You're looking for Silverlight: >> http://www.voidspace.org.uk/ironpython/silverlight/index.shtml >> > > Maybe. I'm not a big fan of anything so Microsoftian, but I'll admit that > this does mostly fit the bill I described above (or has the potential to, > anyway). If your only problem with Silverlight is Microsoft, there is an open source .NET implementation called Mono (www.mono-project.com) and an open source Silverlight plugin, Moonlight (http://www.go-mono.com/moonlight/). > > > Thanks, > - Joe > > > -- > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list > -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: python is great
M.-A. Lemburg wrote: On the Mac in particular, if you want your app to run on any PowerPC or Intel machine runing 10.4 or later, and you're using anything not in the standard framework (such as MySQLdb), it's a bit of a nightmare. You're looking for py2app: http://undefined.org/python/py2app.html No, I'm *using* py2app. I've been trying to use it for a couple of weeks now, with the generous help of such people as Robin Dunn, and I still don't have it quite working properly. (I'd be happy to send you my notes on what was required to get as far as I've gotten, but it's several pages, a bit long to post here.) (py2exe works a little more easily, thank goodness.) So I would say that Python as a language is great, and its standard framework is great. But its (many) IDEs are pretty poor, and the process of building a polished, packaged app is abysmal. It's certainly work, but that's always the case for nicely polished apps :-) In Python, yes. :) Not in all environments. For packaging, you can choose from a multitude of installer builders - none of which are really Python specific. I'm not even talking about that level of packaging -- I'm just talking about making something that appears to the user like a normal executable, which they can double-click on their system and have it actually run, rather than aborting with something unhelpful like "No module named MySQLdb". And there are some things (such as Flash-style web applets) that you still can't do at all in Python, even after all these years. You're looking for Silverlight: http://www.voidspace.org.uk/ironpython/silverlight/index.shtml Maybe. I'm not a big fan of anything so Microsoftian, but I'll admit that this does mostly fit the bill I described above (or has the potential to, anyway). Thanks, - Joe -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: python is great
On Jan 6, 11:36 am, Joe Strout wrote: > I've actually been rather frustrated by Python lately. It's great at > some things, but rather poor at others. In the latter category is > building a neatly packaged executable that can be shipped to users and > run reliably on their machine. On the Mac in particular, if you want > your app to run on any PowerPC or Intel machine runing 10.4 or later, > and you're using anything not in the standard framework (such as > MySQLdb), it's a bit of a nightmare. > > Compare this to, say, REALbasic, where you just check "Mac OS X > Universal" in the Build Settings, click Build, and you're done. (RB has > its own issues, of course.) > > So I would say that Python as a language is great, and its standard > framework is great. But its (many) IDEs are pretty poor, and the > process of building a polished, packaged app is abysmal. And there are > some things (such as Flash-style web applets) that you still can't do at > all in Python, even after all these years. > > But of course, the nice thing about an open-source environment is that, > with enough motivation, time, and expertise, one can fix the most > annoying limitations oneself. And if I stick with Python over the > upcoming years, I'll certainly do my part. > > Best, > - Joe Joe, At post.readlines()[:1] i was quite angry, but from [2:] i started agreeing very much with you. I very much love the python programming language(and everyone here knows that) but app packaging is dismal in python. And many improvements need to be made to IDLE. You make some very good points and hopefully i will be able to give my time shortly to help fix some of these deficiencies. PS: Whoever rated the OP with one star needs to hang out somewhere else! -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: python is great
On 2009-01-06 18:36, Joe Strout wrote: > I've actually been rather frustrated by Python lately. It's great at > some things, but rather poor at others. In the latter category is > building a neatly packaged executable that can be shipped to users and > run reliably on their machine. On the Mac in particular, if you want > your app to run on any PowerPC or Intel machine runing 10.4 or later, > and you're using anything not in the standard framework (such as > MySQLdb), it's a bit of a nightmare. > > Compare this to, say, REALbasic, where you just check "Mac OS X > Universal" in the Build Settings, click Build, and you're done. (RB has > its own issues, of course.) You're looking for py2app: http://undefined.org/python/py2app.html (creating a button that invokes it is left as exercise to the interested reader :-) > So I would say that Python as a language is great, and its standard > framework is great. But its (many) IDEs are pretty poor, and the > process of building a polished, packaged app is abysmal. It's certainly work, but that's always the case for nicely polished apps :-) For packaging, you can choose from a multitude of installer builders - none of which are really Python specific. We tend to use InnoSetup on Windows, the Mac OS installer for Mac OS X and an installer shell script for Unix. More recently we've found InstallJammer which looks very promising, esp. when building applications for multiple platforms. > And there are > some things (such as Flash-style web applets) that you still can't do at > all in Python, even after all these years. You're looking for Silverlight: http://www.voidspace.org.uk/ironpython/silverlight/index.shtml > But of course, the nice thing about an open-source environment is that, > with enough motivation, time, and expertise, one can fix the most > annoying limitations oneself. And if I stick with Python over the > upcoming years, I'll certainly do my part. -- Marc-Andre Lemburg eGenix.com Professional Python Services directly from the Source (#1, Jan 06 2009) >>> Python/Zope Consulting and Support ...http://www.egenix.com/ >>> mxODBC.Zope.Database.Adapter ... http://zope.egenix.com/ >>> mxODBC, mxDateTime, mxTextTools ...http://python.egenix.com/ ::: Try our new mxODBC.Connect Python Database Interface for free ! eGenix.com Software, Skills and Services GmbH Pastor-Loeh-Str.48 D-40764 Langenfeld, Germany. CEO Dipl.-Math. Marc-Andre Lemburg Registered at Amtsgericht Duesseldorf: HRB 46611 http://www.egenix.com/company/contact/ -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: python is great
2009/1/6 sturlamolden : > On Jan 6, 3:35 pm, "Dotan Cohen" wrote: >> 2009/1/3 Nomen Nescio : >> >> > python is great. >> >> No, those are anacondas. > > Unless Nomen Nescio is thinking of the giant serpent Python from greek > mythology. > The word "great" means large, as well as "doubleplusgood". So I mentioned something related, but larger. -- Dotan Cohen http://what-is-what.com http://gibberish.co.il א-ב-ג-ד-ה-ו-ז-ח-ט-י-ך-כ-ל-ם-מ-ן-נ-ס-ע-ף-פ-ץ-צ-ק-ר-ש-ת ا-ب-ت-ث-ج-ح-خ-د-ذ-ر-ز-س-ش-ص-ض-ط-ظ-ع-غ-ف-ق-ك-ل-م-ن-ه-و-ي А-Б-В-Г-Д-Е-Ё-Ж-З-И-Й-К-Л-М-Н-О-П-Р-С-Т-У-Ф-Х-Ц-Ч-Ш-Щ-Ъ-Ы-Ь-Э-Ю-Я а-б-в-г-д-е-ё-ж-з-и-й-к-л-м-н-о-п-р-с-т-у-ф-х-ц-ч-ш-щ-ъ-ы-ь-э-ю-я ä-ö-ü-ß-Ä-Ö-Ü -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: python is great
On Tue, 2009-01-06 at 10:36 -0700, Joe Strout wrote: > I've actually been rather frustrated by Python lately. OFF TOPIC!!! Please try to stay within the subject presented by the subject header. The subject in question is "python is great," not "python is frustrating." Speaking of which, python is truly great. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: python is great
On Jan 6, 3:35 pm, "Dotan Cohen" wrote: > 2009/1/3 Nomen Nescio : > > > python is great. > > No, those are anacondas. Unless Nomen Nescio is thinking of the giant serpent Python from greek mythology. - Python lived in a cave near Delphi. CPython can be embedded in Delphi. - Python was made of slime. CPython runs equally slow. - Python had pythian games. CPython has PyGame. - Pythian can be made pythonian. - Pythians are benevolent. Pythonistas are not (except for Guido). I think that sums it up. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: python is great
I've actually been rather frustrated by Python lately. It's great at some things, but rather poor at others. In the latter category is building a neatly packaged executable that can be shipped to users and run reliably on their machine. On the Mac in particular, if you want your app to run on any PowerPC or Intel machine runing 10.4 or later, and you're using anything not in the standard framework (such as MySQLdb), it's a bit of a nightmare. Compare this to, say, REALbasic, where you just check "Mac OS X Universal" in the Build Settings, click Build, and you're done. (RB has its own issues, of course.) So I would say that Python as a language is great, and its standard framework is great. But its (many) IDEs are pretty poor, and the process of building a polished, packaged app is abysmal. And there are some things (such as Flash-style web applets) that you still can't do at all in Python, even after all these years. But of course, the nice thing about an open-source environment is that, with enough motivation, time, and expertise, one can fix the most annoying limitations oneself. And if I stick with Python over the upcoming years, I'll certainly do my part. Best, - Joe -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: python is great
2009/1/3 Nomen Nescio : > python is great. > No, those are anacondas. -- Dotan Cohen http://what-is-what.com http://gibberish.co.il א-ב-ג-ד-ה-ו-ז-ח-ט-י-ך-כ-ל-ם-מ-ן-נ-ס-ע-ף-פ-ץ-צ-ק-ר-ש-ת ا-ب-ت-ث-ج-ح-خ-د-ذ-ر-ز-س-ش-ص-ض-ط-ظ-ع-غ-ف-ق-ك-ل-م-ن-ه-و-ي А-Б-В-Г-Д-Е-Ё-Ж-З-И-Й-К-Л-М-Н-О-П-Р-С-Т-У-Ф-Х-Ц-Ч-Ш-Щ-Ъ-Ы-Ь-Э-Ю-Я а-б-в-г-д-е-ё-ж-з-и-й-к-л-м-н-о-п-р-с-т-у-ф-х-ц-ч-ш-щ-ъ-ы-ь-э-ю-я ä-ö-ü-ß-Ä-Ö-Ü -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: python is great
I agree but please enlighten us what caused you to say that python is great? On Sat, Jan 3, 2009 at 3:30 PM, Nomen Nescio wrote: > python is great. > > -- > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list > -- http://www.astorandblack.com -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
python is great
python is great. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: python is great
python is great. No. Python is VERY GREAT !!! -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
