Re: python is great
python is great. No. Python is VERY GREAT !!! All right now, everyone... Every Python's sacred, every Python's great, If any Python's wasted, Guido gets irate! -- Greg -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: python is great
python is great. No. Python is VERY GREAT !!! -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
python is great
python is great. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: python is great
I agree but please enlighten us what caused you to say that python is great? On Sat, Jan 3, 2009 at 3:30 PM, Nomen Nescio nob...@dizum.com wrote: python is great. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list -- http://www.astorandblack.com -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: python is great
2009/1/3 Nomen Nescio nob...@dizum.com: python is great. No, those are anacondas. -- Dotan Cohen http://what-is-what.com http://gibberish.co.il א-ב-ג-ד-ה-ו-ז-ח-ט-י-ך-כ-ל-ם-מ-ן-נ-ס-ע-ף-פ-ץ-צ-ק-ר-ש-ת ا-ب-ت-ث-ج-ح-خ-د-ذ-ر-ز-س-ش-ص-ض-ط-ظ-ع-غ-ف-ق-ك-ل-م-ن-ه-و-ي А-Б-В-Г-Д-Е-Ё-Ж-З-И-Й-К-Л-М-Н-О-П-Р-С-Т-У-Ф-Х-Ц-Ч-Ш-Щ-Ъ-Ы-Ь-Э-Ю-Я а-б-в-г-д-е-ё-ж-з-и-й-к-л-м-н-о-п-р-с-т-у-ф-х-ц-ч-ш-щ-ъ-ы-ь-э-ю-я ä-ö-ü-ß-Ä-Ö-Ü -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: python is great
I've actually been rather frustrated by Python lately. It's great at some things, but rather poor at others. In the latter category is building a neatly packaged executable that can be shipped to users and run reliably on their machine. On the Mac in particular, if you want your app to run on any PowerPC or Intel machine runing 10.4 or later, and you're using anything not in the standard framework (such as MySQLdb), it's a bit of a nightmare. Compare this to, say, REALbasic, where you just check Mac OS X Universal in the Build Settings, click Build, and you're done. (RB has its own issues, of course.) So I would say that Python as a language is great, and its standard framework is great. But its (many) IDEs are pretty poor, and the process of building a polished, packaged app is abysmal. And there are some things (such as Flash-style web applets) that you still can't do at all in Python, even after all these years. But of course, the nice thing about an open-source environment is that, with enough motivation, time, and expertise, one can fix the most annoying limitations oneself. And if I stick with Python over the upcoming years, I'll certainly do my part. Best, - Joe -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: python is great
On Jan 6, 3:35 pm, Dotan Cohen dotanco...@gmail.com wrote: 2009/1/3 Nomen Nescio nob...@dizum.com: python is great. No, those are anacondas. Unless Nomen Nescio is thinking of the giant serpent Python from greek mythology. - Python lived in a cave near Delphi. CPython can be embedded in Delphi. - Python was made of slime. CPython runs equally slow. - Python had pythian games. CPython has PyGame. - Pythian can be made pythonian. - Pythians are benevolent. Pythonistas are not (except for Guido). I think that sums it up. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: python is great
On Tue, 2009-01-06 at 10:36 -0700, Joe Strout wrote: I've actually been rather frustrated by Python lately. OFF TOPIC!!! Please try to stay within the subject presented by the subject header. The subject in question is python is great, not python is frustrating. Speaking of which, python is truly great. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: python is great
2009/1/6 sturlamolden sturlamol...@yahoo.no: On Jan 6, 3:35 pm, Dotan Cohen dotanco...@gmail.com wrote: 2009/1/3 Nomen Nescio nob...@dizum.com: python is great. No, those are anacondas. Unless Nomen Nescio is thinking of the giant serpent Python from greek mythology. The word great means large, as well as doubleplusgood. So I mentioned something related, but larger. -- Dotan Cohen http://what-is-what.com http://gibberish.co.il א-ב-ג-ד-ה-ו-ז-ח-ט-י-ך-כ-ל-ם-מ-ן-נ-ס-ע-ף-פ-ץ-צ-ק-ר-ש-ת ا-ب-ت-ث-ج-ح-خ-د-ذ-ر-ز-س-ش-ص-ض-ط-ظ-ع-غ-ف-ق-ك-ل-م-ن-ه-و-ي А-Б-В-Г-Д-Е-Ё-Ж-З-И-Й-К-Л-М-Н-О-П-Р-С-Т-У-Ф-Х-Ц-Ч-Ш-Щ-Ъ-Ы-Ь-Э-Ю-Я а-б-в-г-д-е-ё-ж-з-и-й-к-л-м-н-о-п-р-с-т-у-ф-х-ц-ч-ш-щ-ъ-ы-ь-э-ю-я ä-ö-ü-ß-Ä-Ö-Ü -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: python is great
On 2009-01-06 18:36, Joe Strout wrote: I've actually been rather frustrated by Python lately. It's great at some things, but rather poor at others. In the latter category is building a neatly packaged executable that can be shipped to users and run reliably on their machine. On the Mac in particular, if you want your app to run on any PowerPC or Intel machine runing 10.4 or later, and you're using anything not in the standard framework (such as MySQLdb), it's a bit of a nightmare. Compare this to, say, REALbasic, where you just check Mac OS X Universal in the Build Settings, click Build, and you're done. (RB has its own issues, of course.) You're looking for py2app: http://undefined.org/python/py2app.html (creating a button that invokes it is left as exercise to the interested reader :-) So I would say that Python as a language is great, and its standard framework is great. But its (many) IDEs are pretty poor, and the process of building a polished, packaged app is abysmal. It's certainly work, but that's always the case for nicely polished apps :-) For packaging, you can choose from a multitude of installer builders - none of which are really Python specific. We tend to use InnoSetup on Windows, the Mac OS installer for Mac OS X and an installer shell script for Unix. More recently we've found InstallJammer which looks very promising, esp. when building applications for multiple platforms. And there are some things (such as Flash-style web applets) that you still can't do at all in Python, even after all these years. You're looking for Silverlight: http://www.voidspace.org.uk/ironpython/silverlight/index.shtml But of course, the nice thing about an open-source environment is that, with enough motivation, time, and expertise, one can fix the most annoying limitations oneself. And if I stick with Python over the upcoming years, I'll certainly do my part. -- Marc-Andre Lemburg eGenix.com Professional Python Services directly from the Source (#1, Jan 06 2009) Python/Zope Consulting and Support ...http://www.egenix.com/ mxODBC.Zope.Database.Adapter ... http://zope.egenix.com/ mxODBC, mxDateTime, mxTextTools ...http://python.egenix.com/ ::: Try our new mxODBC.Connect Python Database Interface for free ! eGenix.com Software, Skills and Services GmbH Pastor-Loeh-Str.48 D-40764 Langenfeld, Germany. CEO Dipl.-Math. Marc-Andre Lemburg Registered at Amtsgericht Duesseldorf: HRB 46611 http://www.egenix.com/company/contact/ -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: python is great
On Jan 6, 11:36 am, Joe Strout j...@strout.net wrote: I've actually been rather frustrated by Python lately. It's great at some things, but rather poor at others. In the latter category is building a neatly packaged executable that can be shipped to users and run reliably on their machine. On the Mac in particular, if you want your app to run on any PowerPC or Intel machine runing 10.4 or later, and you're using anything not in the standard framework (such as MySQLdb), it's a bit of a nightmare. Compare this to, say, REALbasic, where you just check Mac OS X Universal in the Build Settings, click Build, and you're done. (RB has its own issues, of course.) So I would say that Python as a language is great, and its standard framework is great. But its (many) IDEs are pretty poor, and the process of building a polished, packaged app is abysmal. And there are some things (such as Flash-style web applets) that you still can't do at all in Python, even after all these years. But of course, the nice thing about an open-source environment is that, with enough motivation, time, and expertise, one can fix the most annoying limitations oneself. And if I stick with Python over the upcoming years, I'll certainly do my part. Best, - Joe Joe, At post.readlines()[:1] i was quite angry, but from [2:] i started agreeing very much with you. I very much love the python programming language(and everyone here knows that) but app packaging is dismal in python. And many improvements need to be made to IDLE. You make some very good points and hopefully i will be able to give my time shortly to help fix some of these deficiencies. PS: Whoever rated the OP with one star needs to hang out somewhere else! -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: python is great
M.-A. Lemburg wrote: On the Mac in particular, if you want your app to run on any PowerPC or Intel machine runing 10.4 or later, and you're using anything not in the standard framework (such as MySQLdb), it's a bit of a nightmare. You're looking for py2app: http://undefined.org/python/py2app.html No, I'm *using* py2app. I've been trying to use it for a couple of weeks now, with the generous help of such people as Robin Dunn, and I still don't have it quite working properly. (I'd be happy to send you my notes on what was required to get as far as I've gotten, but it's several pages, a bit long to post here.) (py2exe works a little more easily, thank goodness.) So I would say that Python as a language is great, and its standard framework is great. But its (many) IDEs are pretty poor, and the process of building a polished, packaged app is abysmal. It's certainly work, but that's always the case for nicely polished apps :-) In Python, yes. :) Not in all environments. For packaging, you can choose from a multitude of installer builders - none of which are really Python specific. I'm not even talking about that level of packaging -- I'm just talking about making something that appears to the user like a normal executable, which they can double-click on their system and have it actually run, rather than aborting with something unhelpful like No module named MySQLdb. And there are some things (such as Flash-style web applets) that you still can't do at all in Python, even after all these years. You're looking for Silverlight: http://www.voidspace.org.uk/ironpython/silverlight/index.shtml Maybe. I'm not a big fan of anything so Microsoftian, but I'll admit that this does mostly fit the bill I described above (or has the potential to, anyway). Thanks, - Joe -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: python is great
On Tue, Jan 6, 2009 at 3:24 PM, Joe Strout j...@strout.net wrote: M.-A. Lemburg wrote: On the Mac in particular, if you want your app to run on any PowerPC or Intel machine runing 10.4 or later, and you're using anything not in the standard framework (such as MySQLdb), it's a bit of a nightmare. You're looking for py2app: http://undefined.org/python/py2app.html No, I'm *using* py2app. I've been trying to use it for a couple of weeks now, with the generous help of such people as Robin Dunn, and I still don't have it quite working properly. (I'd be happy to send you my notes on what was required to get as far as I've gotten, but it's several pages, a bit long to post here.) (py2exe works a little more easily, thank goodness.) So I would say that Python as a language is great, and its standard framework is great. But its (many) IDEs are pretty poor, and the process of building a polished, packaged app is abysmal. It's certainly work, but that's always the case for nicely polished apps :-) In Python, yes. :) Not in all environments. For packaging, you can choose from a multitude of installer builders - none of which are really Python specific. I'm not even talking about that level of packaging -- I'm just talking about making something that appears to the user like a normal executable, which they can double-click on their system and have it actually run, rather than aborting with something unhelpful like No module named MySQLdb. And there are some things (such as Flash-style web applets) that you still can't do at all in Python, even after all these years. You're looking for Silverlight: http://www.voidspace.org.uk/ironpython/silverlight/index.shtml Maybe. I'm not a big fan of anything so Microsoftian, but I'll admit that this does mostly fit the bill I described above (or has the potential to, anyway). If your only problem with Silverlight is Microsoft, there is an open source .NET implementation called Mono (www.mono-project.com) and an open source Silverlight plugin, Moonlight (http://www.go-mono.com/moonlight/). Thanks, - Joe -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: python is great
2009/1/6 Joe Strout j...@strout.net: No, I'm *using* py2app. I've been trying to use it for a couple of weeks now, with the generous help of such people as Robin Dunn, and I still don't have it quite working properly. (I'd be happy to send you my notes on what was required to get as far as I've gotten, but it's several pages, a bit long to post here.) If you want to save me the trouble, then I'd like to see those notes. If you want, I can host the notes at dotancohen.com to that they will be publicaly accessible. -- Dotan Cohen http://what-is-what.com http://gibberish.co.il א-ב-ג-ד-ה-ו-ז-ח-ט-י-ך-כ-ל-ם-מ-ן-נ-ס-ע-ף-פ-ץ-צ-ק-ר-ש-ת ا-ب-ت-ث-ج-ح-خ-د-ذ-ر-ز-س-ش-ص-ض-ط-ظ-ع-غ-ف-ق-ك-ل-م-ن-ه-و-ي А-Б-В-Г-Д-Е-Ё-Ж-З-И-Й-К-Л-М-Н-О-П-Р-С-Т-У-Ф-Х-Ц-Ч-Ш-Щ-Ъ-Ы-Ь-Э-Ю-Я а-б-в-г-д-е-ё-ж-з-и-й-к-л-м-н-о-п-р-с-т-у-ф-х-ц-ч-ш-щ-ъ-ы-ь-э-ю-я ä-ö-ü-ß-Ä-Ö-Ü -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: python is great
On 2009-01-06 21:24, Joe Strout wrote: M.-A. Lemburg wrote: On the Mac in particular, if you want your app to run on any PowerPC or Intel machine runing 10.4 or later, and you're using anything not in the standard framework (such as MySQLdb), it's a bit of a nightmare. You're looking for py2app: http://undefined.org/python/py2app.html No, I'm *using* py2app. I've been trying to use it for a couple of weeks now, with the generous help of such people as Robin Dunn, and I still don't have it quite working properly. (I'd be happy to send you my notes on what was required to get as far as I've gotten, but it's several pages, a bit long to post here.) Perhaps not post it here, but put it up on the web somewhere and link to it from the Python.org wiki. (py2exe works a little more easily, thank goodness.) We're using py2exe to wrap up apps on Windows and then pass them on to InnoSetup for creating the installer. On Unix, we tried using cx_Freeze, but that had too many issues. We've then modified and updated an old project of mine, called mxCGIPython, to create a one file Python interpreter and use that with the applications: http://www.egenix.com/www2002/python/mxCGIPython.html One of these days, we're going to release the new version as OSS. So I would say that Python as a language is great, and its standard framework is great. But its (many) IDEs are pretty poor, and the process of building a polished, packaged app is abysmal. It's certainly work, but that's always the case for nicely polished apps :-) In Python, yes. :) Not in all environments. Hmm, I'm not only referring to nice looking GUIs. Those are only part of the game. More important is well working application, without any annoying bugs. For packaging, you can choose from a multitude of installer builders - none of which are really Python specific. I'm not even talking about that level of packaging -- I'm just talking about making something that appears to the user like a normal executable, which they can double-click on their system and have it actually run, rather than aborting with something unhelpful like No module named MySQLdb. That's part of polishing the application, IMHO. For point-and-click apps, you need to include all the required dependencies together with the application. And there are some things (such as Flash-style web applets) that you still can't do at all in Python, even after all these years. You're looking for Silverlight: http://www.voidspace.org.uk/ironpython/silverlight/index.shtml Maybe. I'm not a big fan of anything so Microsoftian, but I'll admit that this does mostly fit the bill I described above (or has the potential to, anyway). Ok, how about a Firefox Extension, then... http://pyxpcomext.mozdev.org/ together with a shell: http://pyxpcomext.mozdev.org/samples.html#pyshell With this plugin you write the GUI using XUL and JavaScript... and after some polishing, which includes dropping the Firefox GUI and turning to XULRunner, you can create apps such as Miro: http://www.getmiro.com/ and watch TED videos driven by Python (and a gazillion other tools working for you behind the scenes). -- Marc-Andre Lemburg eGenix.com Professional Python Services directly from the Source (#1, Jan 06 2009) Python/Zope Consulting and Support ...http://www.egenix.com/ mxODBC.Zope.Database.Adapter ... http://zope.egenix.com/ mxODBC, mxDateTime, mxTextTools ...http://python.egenix.com/ ::: Try our new mxODBC.Connect Python Database Interface for free ! eGenix.com Software, Skills and Services GmbH Pastor-Loeh-Str.48 D-40764 Langenfeld, Germany. CEO Dipl.-Math. Marc-Andre Lemburg Registered at Amtsgericht Duesseldorf: HRB 46611 http://www.egenix.com/company/contact/ -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: python is great
On Jan 6, 2:24 pm, Joe Strout j...@strout.net wrote: M.-A. Lemburg wrote: On the Mac in particular, if you want your app to run on any PowerPC or Intel machine runing 10.4 or later, and you're using anything not in the standard framework (such as MySQLdb), it's a bit of a nightmare. You're looking for py2app: http://undefined.org/python/py2app.html No, I'm *using* py2app. I've been trying to use it for a couple of weeks now, with the generous help of such people as Robin Dunn, and I still don't have it quite working properly. (I'd be happy to send you my notes on what was required to get as far as I've gotten, but it's several pages, a bit long to post here.) (py2exe works a little more easily, thank goodness.) So I would say that Python as a language is great, and its standard framework is great. But its (many) IDEs are pretty poor, and the process of building a polished, packaged app is abysmal. It's certainly work, but that's always the case for nicely polished apps :-) In Python, yes. :) Not in all environments. For packaging, you can choose from a multitude of installer builders - none of which are really Python specific. I'm not even talking about that level of packaging -- I'm just talking about making something that appears to the user like a normal executable, which they can double-click on their system and have it actually run, rather than aborting with something unhelpful like No module named MySQLdb. And there are some things (such as Flash-style web applets) that you still can't do at all in Python, even after all these years. You're looking for Silverlight: http://www.voidspace.org.uk/ironpython/silverlight/index.shtml Maybe. I'm not a big fan of anything so Microsoftian, but I'll admit that this does mostly fit the bill I described above (or has the potential to, anyway). Thanks, - Joe I use Andrea Gavana's GUI2Exe to create my binaries. He recently added a py2app wrapper to it. I don't have a Mac, so I haven't tested that part of his app. However, the py2exe portion rocks! I put in the path to my main Python executable, add any special 3rd party modules and it just works! I've written a tutorial for the py2exe part of it if you're interested... Mike -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: python is great
I use Andrea Gavana's GUI2Exe to create my binaries. He recently added a py2app wrapper to it. I don't have a Mac, so I haven't tested that part of his app. However, the py2exe portion rocks! I put in the path to my main Python executable, add any special 3rd party modules and it just works! I've written a tutorial for the py2exe part of it if you're interested... Can you post the link to this tutorial? If you want to save me the trouble, then I'd like to see those notes. If you want, I can host the notes at dotancohen.com to that they will be publicaly accessible. Any more news on this research? -Alex Goretoy http://www.alexgoretoy.com somebodywhoca...@gmail.com On Tue, Jan 6, 2009 at 9:24 PM, Mike Driscoll kyoso...@gmail.com wrote: On Jan 6, 2:24 pm, Joe Strout j...@strout.net wrote: M.-A. Lemburg wrote: On the Mac in particular, if you want your app to run on any PowerPC or Intel machine runing 10.4 or later, and you're using anything not in the standard framework (such as MySQLdb), it's a bit of a nightmare. You're looking for py2app: http://undefined.org/python/py2app.html No, I'm *using* py2app. I've been trying to use it for a couple of weeks now, with the generous help of such people as Robin Dunn, and I still don't have it quite working properly. (I'd be happy to send you my notes on what was required to get as far as I've gotten, but it's several pages, a bit long to post here.) (py2exe works a little more easily, thank goodness.) So I would say that Python as a language is great, and its standard framework is great. But its (many) IDEs are pretty poor, and the process of building a polished, packaged app is abysmal. It's certainly work, but that's always the case for nicely polished apps :-) In Python, yes. :) Not in all environments. For packaging, you can choose from a multitude of installer builders - none of which are really Python specific. I'm not even talking about that level of packaging -- I'm just talking about making something that appears to the user like a normal executable, which they can double-click on their system and have it actually run, rather than aborting with something unhelpful like No module named MySQLdb. And there are some things (such as Flash-style web applets) that you still can't do at all in Python, even after all these years. You're looking for Silverlight: http://www.voidspace.org.uk/ironpython/silverlight/index.shtml Maybe. I'm not a big fan of anything so Microsoftian, but I'll admit that this does mostly fit the bill I described above (or has the potential to, anyway). Thanks, - Joe I use Andrea Gavana's GUI2Exe to create my binaries. He recently added a py2app wrapper to it. I don't have a Mac, so I haven't tested that part of his app. However, the py2exe portion rocks! I put in the path to my main Python executable, add any special 3rd party modules and it just works! I've written a tutorial for the py2exe part of it if you're interested... Mike -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: python is great
And there are some things (such as Flash-style web applets) that you still can't do at all in Python, even after all these years. You're looking for Silverlight: http://www.voidspace.org.uk/ironpython/silverlight/index.shtml or clutter which has Python bindings http://www.clutter-project.org/ -- дамјан ( http://softver.org.mk/damjan/ ) Hi! I'm a .signature virus! copy me into your .signature file to help me spread! -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Python IDE: great headache....
Come to think of it, the only exception is probably that PyScripter (AFAIK) does not provide conditional pause. Quoting myself :) But now it does! Conditional breakpoints were introduced in the new version released on the 14th of March: http://mmm-experts.com/ -Dag -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Python IDE: great headache....
Sullivan WxPyQtKinter schrieb: IDLE is no longer satisfactory for me. Other IDEs make me very confused. Really do not know which one to use. I use WinXP sp2 for current development. So far as I know, Eclipse + PyDev + PyDev Extension is perfect for source code editing. Since I am really not sure how to use the debugger module, I really do not know how to add watch to variables etc. Anyone knows if this platform is a good one? I hope that an IDE should be featured with: 1. Grammar Colored highlights. 2. Manage project in a tree view or something alike, ie, a project file navigator. 3. Code collapse and folding. 4. Code auto-completion: especially prompting function parameters when I am typing a function previously defined by myself. Like the one in Visual Studio series. 5. Debugging: Breakpoints, conditional pause. watch for variables.step into, over and out of a function. What about other IDEs? Since I do not need GUI development. More over, the free-of-charge IDE is highly preferred. 6.Indentation management like in IDLE: press ctrl+[/] to modify the identation of a line or a block. In addition, I have seen quite a few editors, which are definitely not what I want. Thank you so much for suggestions. Give Komodo (http://www.activestate.com/Products/Komodo/?mp=1) a try. Michael -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Python IDE: great headache....
Anyone knows if this platform is a good one? It's very good. It's comfortable, helpful and stable. Also looks good. Eclipse + Pydev does most, if not all, of your list - I am not sure what you mean by conditional pause - plus a whole lot more. Maybe he means conditional breakpoints? PyDev certainly has that. I like Eclipse, but lots of folks on the Python groups seem to hate it with a passion. Any ideas why? If you install Eclipse and try to use it without reading the Workbench User Guide then you are not going to get anywhere. Woah, easy now! I never read any Workbench User Guide and I'm doing just fine with PyDev. Fabio Zadrozny (PyDev developer) wrote an excellent startup guide for python programmers that includes installing and basic editing: http://www.fabioz.com/pydev/manual_101_root.html It's all I ever read and it was enough for me to get going with Eclipse + PyDev within 15 minutes on a WinXP machine. On a side note: with Ubuntulinux 5.10 it was more of a hassle, but that was just to get Eclipse running smoothly. I.e: an Eclipse/apt/Java problem. Once that was neatly in place, that guide above worked flawlessly. Cheers! /Joel Hedlund -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Python IDE: great headache....
Vim + iPython does most of it doesn't it? That's where I am after I became a bit frustrated with Idle (which I still use on odd occasions). EuGeNe -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Python IDE: great headache....
Joel Hedlund wrote: If you install Eclipse and try to use it without reading the Workbench User Guide then you are not going to get anywhere. Woah, easy now! I never read any Workbench User Guide and I'm doing just fine with PyDev. Fabio Zadrozny (PyDev developer) wrote an excellent startup guide for python programmers that includes installing and basic editing: http://www.fabioz.com/pydev/manual_101_root.html It's all I ever read and it was enough for me to get going with Eclipse + PyDev within 15 minutes on a WinXP machine. Sorry to offend, I was just extrapoloating from personal experience. When I was looking for a Java IDE I tried IntelliJ Idea, Netbeans and Eclipse in that order. I found that I could use Idea and Netbeans without reading the manuals, but I could not get going with Eclipse until I read the Workbench User Guide and got the hang of perspectives and views. Even installing it the first time seemed to be a mystery. It is not difficult at all, just different. In retrospect, I don't know why I found it puzzling but I have met others who have had the same experience. It has improved a lot recently, but even the Eclipse web-site was hard to navigate. I think that a lot of the puzzlement comes from the fact that the Eclipse folks present Eclipse not as an IDE, but as a framework where one of the applications happens to be an IDE. Don. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Python IDE: great headache....
Sorry to offend, I was just extrapoloating from personal experience. No worries, man. No offense taken :-) but I could not get going with Eclipse ... Even installing it the first time seemed to be a mystery. Yeah I felt the same too when I first installed it. I had in fact given up using Eclipse, but then I found that starter guide I linked to in my last post. It really is excellent. It's thorough and to the point, and I really recommend it to people who are interested in PyDev. Cheers, Joel Hedlund -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Python IDE: great headache....
Hi Being a Delphi user at work, I know what you mean :) The best python IDE I have found is Stani's Python Editor (SPE), and I think Stani himself replied to your message as well. It integrates wxGlade, which is nice for form-building, although I don't really do much of that with the python code I write. My only gripe with SPE is that the memory usage, while SPE is running, slowly climbs and climbs, and after several hours that python thread running SPE is using several hundred megabytes of RAM. I usually just restart it. It seems as if the effect is pronouced when running code in the IDE. Other than that, I now use SPE instead of Vim for python editing, which is a big step for me. SPE is quite slick; some ways to go, but certainly on the right track. The built-in code-completion is a godsend. Hope this helps Caleb Sullivan WxPyQtKinter wrote: IDLE is no longer satisfactory for me. Other IDEs make me very confused. Really do not know which one to use. I use WinXP sp2 for current development. So far as I know, Eclipse + PyDev + PyDev Extension is perfect for source code editing. Since I am really not sure how to use the debugger module, I really do not know how to add watch to variables etc. Anyone knows if this platform is a good one? I hope that an IDE should be featured with: 1. Grammar Colored highlights. 2. Manage project in a tree view or something alike, ie, a project file navigator. 3. Code collapse and folding. 4. Code auto-completion: especially prompting function parameters when I am typing a function previously defined by myself. Like the one in Visual Studio series. 5. Debugging: Breakpoints, conditional pause. watch for variables.step into, over and out of a function. What about other IDEs? Since I do not need GUI development. More over, the free-of-charge IDE is highly preferred. 6.Indentation management like in IDLE: press ctrl+[/] to modify the identation of a line or a block. In addition, I have seen quite a few editors, which are definitely not what I want. Thank you so much for suggestions. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Python IDE: great headache....
What features exactly does it not have? Come to think of it, the only exception is probably that PyScripter (AFAIK) does not provide conditional pause. But I really like it. PyScripter is written in Delphi, my other favorite language :) -Dag -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Python IDE: great headache....
I like PyScripter. It has some of, but not all, the features you request. http://mmm-experts.com/Products.aspx?ProductId=4 -Dag -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Python IDE: great headache....
Hi Sullivan,Just to let you know, pydev does all that you asked for (and if there's something you're missing you might want to add a feature request to it: http://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=85796atid=577332)Some notes:To change the indentation in 'blocks', just select the lines you want and use Tab (indent) or shift+tab (dedent). The 'conditional pause' you said is regarded as 'conditional breakpoint' in pydev. Cheers,FabioOn 11 Mar 2006 15:33:22 -0800, Sullivan WxPyQtKinter [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:IDLE is no longer satisfactory for me. Other IDEs make me veryconfused. Really do not know which one to use. I use WinXP sp2 for current development.So far as I know, Eclipse + PyDev + PyDev Extension is perfect forsource code editing. Since I am really not sure how to use the debuggermodule, I really do not know how to add watch to variables etc. Anyone knows if this platform is a good one?I hope that an IDE should be featured with:1. Grammar Colored highlights.2. Manage project in a tree view or something alike, ie, a project filenavigator.3. Code collapse and folding. 4. Code auto-completion: especially prompting function parameters whenI am typing a function previously defined by myself. Like the one inVisual Studio series.5. Debugging: Breakpoints, conditional pause. watch for variables.stepinto, over and out of a function.What about other IDEs? Since I do not need GUI development. More over,the free-of-charge IDE is highly preferred.6.Indentation management like in IDLE: press ctrl+[/] to modify the identation of a line or a block.In addition, I have seen quite a few editors, which are definitely notwhat I want.Thank you so much for suggestions.-- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Python IDE: great headache....
I use WinXP sp2 for current development. You might want to take a look at the Zeus for Windows IDE: http://www.zeusedit.com Here is how Zeus stacks up to your check list: I hope that an IDE should be featured with: 1. Grammar Colored highlights. It does syntax coloring for Python. 2. Manage project in a tree view or something alike, ie, a project file navigator. It has a project/workspace feature. 3. Code collapse and folding. It does code folding for Python. 4. Code auto-completion: especially prompting function parameters when I am typing a function previously defined by myself. Like the one in Visual Studio series. The code completion in Zeus is driven by the information provided by the ctags utility and ctags works better for some languages compared to others. The net result is quality of the Zeus code completion does vary from one language to next language. 5. Debugging: Breakpoints, conditional pause. watch for variables.step into, over and out of a function. It does have a built-in debugger, but most likely there are be better standalone debuggers :( More over, the free-of-charge IDE is highly preferred. Zeus is not freeware. It is shareware and has a 45 day fully functional trail period. 6.Indentation management like in IDLE: press ctrl+[/] to modify the identation of a line or a block. It can handle Python indenting. It also has a block indent/unindent feature (ie Tab/Shift tab marked areas). Zeus is also fully scriptable an the macro scripts can be written in Python. Jussi Jumppanen Author: Zeus for Windows -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Python IDE: great headache....
Dag Fjeld Edvardsen wrote: I like PyScripter. It has some of, but not all, the features you request. http://mmm-experts.com/Products.aspx?ProductId=4 -Dag Hey, that looks neat, and its open source too. Why have I not heard of it? I can have Eclipse-style sub-window management without the hassle of getting PyDev configured. What features exactly does it not have? -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Python IDE: great headache....
IDLE is no longer satisfactory for me. Other IDEs make me very confused. Really do not know which one to use. I use WinXP sp2 for current development. So far as I know, Eclipse + PyDev + PyDev Extension is perfect for source code editing. Since I am really not sure how to use the debugger module, I really do not know how to add watch to variables etc. Anyone knows if this platform is a good one? I hope that an IDE should be featured with: 1. Grammar Colored highlights. 2. Manage project in a tree view or something alike, ie, a project file navigator. 3. Code collapse and folding. 4. Code auto-completion: especially prompting function parameters when I am typing a function previously defined by myself. Like the one in Visual Studio series. 5. Debugging: Breakpoints, conditional pause. watch for variables.step into, over and out of a function. What about other IDEs? Since I do not need GUI development. More over, the free-of-charge IDE is highly preferred. 6.Indentation management like in IDLE: press ctrl+[/] to modify the identation of a line or a block. In addition, I have seen quite a few editors, which are definitely not what I want. Thank you so much for suggestions. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Python IDE: great headache....
Sullivan WxPyQtKinter: I hope that an IDE should be featured with: I use WingIDE 2.1.0 (beta1) and I'm pleased with it. 1. Grammar Colored highlights. Yes, Wing does that. 2. Manage project in a tree view or something alike, ie, a project file navigator. Yes. 3. Code collapse and folding. Yes. 4. Code auto-completion: especially prompting function parameters when I am typing a function previously defined by myself. Like the one in Visual Studio series. Yes (well, hints in a separate pane, no prompting). 5. Debugging: Breakpoints, conditional pause. watch for variables.step into, over and out of a function. Yes. 6.Indentation management like in IDLE: press ctrl+[/] to modify the identation of a line or a block. Yes. -- René Pijlman -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Python IDE: great headache....
On Sun, 12 Mar 2006 01:03:36 +0100 Rene Pijlman [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: 5. Debugging: Breakpoints, conditional pause. watch for variables.step into, over and out of a function. Yes. I'll second the recommendation of Wing's debugging. Best debugger I've seen, any language, period. Only 2 things that it's missing (and I know of no debugger that does them): Seamless debugging across C/C++ and Python code, and going backwards. - Michael -- mouse, n: a device for pointing at the xterm in which you want to type. -- Fortune -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Python IDE: great headache....
Sullivan WxPyQtKinter wrote: IDLE is no longer satisfactory for me. Other IDEs make me very confused. Really do not know which one to use. I use WinXP sp2 for current development. So far as I know, Eclipse + PyDev + PyDev Extension is perfect for source code editing. Since I am really not sure how to use the debugger module, I really do not know how to add watch to variables etc. Anyone knows if this platform is a good one? I hope that an IDE should be featured with: 1. Grammar Colored highlights. 2. Manage project in a tree view or something alike, ie, a project file navigator. 3. Code collapse and folding. 4. Code auto-completion: especially prompting function parameters when I am typing a function previously defined by myself. Like the one in Visual Studio series. 5. Debugging: Breakpoints, conditional pause. watch for variables.step into, over and out of a function. What about other IDEs? Since I do not need GUI development. More over, the free-of-charge IDE is highly preferred. 6.Indentation management like in IDLE: press ctrl+[/] to modify the identation of a line or a block. Sullivan: Eclipse + Pydev does most, if not all, of your list - I am not sure what you mean by conditional pause - plus a whole lot more. One feature in particular that I don't think that I could live without is Local History which automatically maintains a series of revisions of each file whenever it is saved. This is coupled with a really nice built-in visual diff that allows you to look back on what changes you have made and restore them selectively. It is a bit like a built-in SVN or CVS system (which Eclipse also has) but at a very fine granularity and completely automatically. It allows you to be very agressive in making changes to files because it is so easy to wind the the clock back. I like Eclipse, but lots of folks on the Python groups seem to hate it with a passion. I think that the problem is that there are a lot of Eclipse concepts and terminology that you need to know before you can use it at all - it is puzzling to use right out of the box. This is compounded by the fact that the Eclipse documentation and tutorials are aimed at the Java programmer, and even so it still seems to be hard for Java programmers to get started in Eclipse. So it is even more difficult for Pythoneers. If you have used Eclipse for doing some Java work then Eclipse + Pydev is a snap, except that you keep looking for some of the wonderful features from the Java Editor that are not yet implemented in Pydev. If you have not used Eclipse for Java then you are likely to give up before you have discovered what it can do for you. If you install Eclipse and try to use it without reading the Workbench User Guide then you are not going to get anywhere. The one major missing Python feature in Pydev is an integrated Python Shell. Fabio has implemented a sort of shell in the debugger that allows you to enter Python statements in the console when you are stopped at a breakpoint - which is really nice. But you cannot use this in the traditional way to develop Python scripts. Don. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Python IDE: great headache....
Sullivan wrote: IDLE is no longer satisfactory for me. Other IDEs make me very confused. Really do not know which one to use. I use WinXP sp2 for current development. Personally I have gotten used to coding using ActiveState's Komodo. It doesn't get in my way and offers the basic features I am looking for. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Re: Python IDE: great headache....
I've got used to SPE(editor)+WinPdb(debugger) not surprisingly of course ;-) Concerning the free-of-charge IDE's, things might change quite a bit. You might have read this: http://groups.google.nl/group/comp.lang.python.announce/browse_thread/thread/240c000583168029/2dec4ae34efe16e2#2dec4ae34efe16e2 Feel free to wiki on http://pyxides.stani.be Stani -- http://pythonide.stani.be -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
