Re: str.title() fails with words containing apostrophes

[D'Arcy Cain]

On 2017-03-06 06:33 PM, Steve D'Aprano wrote:

If you read "title case" as *literally* as being only for titles (of books,


I believe there is only one conclusion to be drawn from this thread - 
There is still a place for human proofreaders.  I'm taking that as good 
news.


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Re: str.title() fails with words containing apostrophes

[Jussi Piitulainen]

Marko Rauhamaa writes:

> Steve D'Aprano wrote:

>> I came across this book title:
>>
>> Täällä Pohjantähden alla (‘Here beneath the North Star’)
>>
>> http://www.booksfromfinland.fi/1980/12/the-strike/
>>
>> which is partly title case, but I'm not sure what rule is being
>> applied there. My guess is that "Täällä Pohjantähden" means "North
>> Star" and it counts as a proper noun, like countries and people's
>> names, and so takes initial caps for each word. Am I close?
>
> Correct.

Not quite.

"Täällä" is "here", "Pohjantähden" is "North Star". So it's just a first
word and a name.

("Pohja" and "tähti" correspond to "North" and "Star".)
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Re: str.title() fails with words containing apostrophes

[Jussi Piitulainen]

Steve D'Aprano writes:

> On Tue, 7 Mar 2017 03:28 am, Grant Edwards wrote:
>> 
>> Besides locale-aware, it'll need to be style-guide-aware so that it
>> knows whether you want MLA, Chicago, Strunk & White, NYT, Gregg,
>> Mrs. Johnson from 9th grade English class, or any of a dozen or two
>> others.  And that's just for US English.  [For all I know, most of
>> the ones I listed agree completely on "title case", but I doubt it.]
>
> As far as I am aware, there are only two conventions for title case in
> English:
>
> Initial Capitals For All The Words In A Sentence.
>
> Initial Capitals For All the Significant Words in a Sentence.
>
> For some unstated, subjective rule for "significant" which usually
> means "three or more letters, excluding the definite article ('the')".

That's where the variation is hidden. I browsed three sites to see what
they do. One doesn't title-capitalize anything. One capitalizes
everything.

One was more interesting. I think it has human editors who pay attention
to these matters. They do not capitalize these short words: 'a', 'an',
'at', 'the', 'in', 'of', 'on', 'for', 'to', 'and', 'vs.'; they
capitalize longer prepositions: 'From', 'Into', 'With', 'Through'. Also
auxiliary verbs and copulas even when short.

A 'Nor' was capitalized in the middle of a title, but there was a
sentence boundary just before the 'Nor'. I'd classify 'nor' with 'and'
otherwise, but they might base the non-capitalization on frequency for
all I know.

Some two-letter words: 'Is', 'Am', 'Do', 'So', 'No', 'He', 'We', 'It',
'My', 'Up'; also 'Au Revoir', 'Oi Oi Oi', 'Ay Ay Ay'.

Then there is 'Grown-Ups' and 'Contrary-to-Fact' but 'X-ing'. Sometimes
a hyphen makes a word boundary, sometimes not.

> But of course there are exceptions: words which are necessarily in
> all-caps should stay in all-caps (e.g. NASA) and names.

There may be lots of these if you are handling something like a tech
news site that talks about people and companies and institutions from
all over the world. Names are tricky.
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Re: str.title() fails with words containing apostrophes

[Marko Rauhamaa]

Chris Angelico :

> On Tue, Mar 7, 2017 at 12:03 PM, Marko Rauhamaa  wrote:
>>
>> As for the UK:
>>
>>Yhdistynyt kuningaskunta
>
> About the only part of that that I understand is "kuning" ==
> king/queen/kingdom. I swear, you like the letter 'y' more than the
> Welsh do...

The Proto-Finnic borrowed the word "kuningas" from the Proto-Germanic,
where it was "kuningaz". The Germanic descendant languages have mangled
the original quite a bit:

   English: king
   German: König
   Swedish: kung

See also: http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?term=king>.

The word "yhdistynyt" ultimately comes from the Proto-Uralic word
"*ükte" ("one"). The word "kunta" ("society") is in its Proto-Uralic
form.


Marko
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Re: str.title() fails with words containing apostrophes

[Chris Angelico]

On Tue, Mar 7, 2017 at 4:18 PM, Steven D'Aprano  wrote:
> On Tue, 07 Mar 2017 12:18:13 +1100, Chris Angelico wrote:
>
>> On Tue, Mar 7, 2017 at 12:03 PM, Marko Rauhamaa 
>> wrote:
>>>
>>> As for the UK:
>>>
>>>Yhdistynyt kuningaskunta
>>
>> About the only part of that that I understand is "kuning" ==
>> king/queen/kingdom. I swear, you like the letter 'y' more than the Welsh
>> do...
>
>
> But do Finns like 'y' more than the English like 'e'?

Perhaps not. And certainly not as much as Calculus likes 'e'.

ChrisA
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Re: str.title() fails with words containing apostrophes

[Steven D'Aprano]

On Tue, 07 Mar 2017 12:18:13 +1100, Chris Angelico wrote:

> On Tue, Mar 7, 2017 at 12:03 PM, Marko Rauhamaa 
> wrote:
>>
>> As for the UK:
>>
>>Yhdistynyt kuningaskunta
> 
> About the only part of that that I understand is "kuning" ==
> king/queen/kingdom. I swear, you like the letter 'y' more than the Welsh
> do...


But do Finns like 'y' more than the English like 'e'?



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Re: str.title() fails with words containing apostrophes

[Chris Angelico]

On Tue, Mar 7, 2017 at 12:03 PM, Marko Rauhamaa  wrote:
>
> As for the UK:
>
>Yhdistynyt kuningaskunta

About the only part of that that I understand is "kuning" ==
king/queen/kingdom. I swear, you like the letter 'y' more than the
Welsh do...

ChrisA
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Re: str.title() fails with words containing apostrophes

[Marko Rauhamaa]

Steve D'Aprano :

> On Tue, 7 Mar 2017 01:03 am, Marko Rauhamaa wrote:
> If you read "title case" as *literally* as being only for titles (of
> books, for instance) then of course you are right. Finnish book titles
> are normally written in sentence case (initial capital, followed by
> all lowercase).

Yes.

> But if you consider title case more widely, Finnish includes it too.
> Names are written in title case ("Marko Rauhamaa" rather than "Marko
> rauhamaa"). I imagine countries get the same treatment when needed.
> How do you write Saudi Arabia, United Kingdom, and North Korea?

The rules are a bit complicated. Sentence case is the basic rule.
However, if the latter part of a compound name is a proper noun, both
parts are capitalized and connected with a hyphen:

   Saudi-Arabia
   Pohjois-Korea
   Iso-Britannia

As for the UK:

   Yhdistynyt kuningaskunta

or:

   Ison-Britannian ja Pohjois-Irlannin yhdistynyt kuningaskunta

Similarly, the University of Helsinki is:

   Helsingin yliopisto

> I came across this book title:
>
> Täällä Pohjantähden alla (‘Here beneath the North Star’)
>
> http://www.booksfromfinland.fi/1980/12/the-strike/
>
> which is partly title case, but I'm not sure what rule is being
> applied there. My guess is that "Täällä Pohjantähden" means "North
> Star" and it counts as a proper noun, like countries and people's
> names, and so takes initial caps for each word. Am I close?

Correct.

The sentence case rule is sometimes violated for historical or marketing
reasons:

Helsingin Sanomat (a newspaper)
Suomen Kuvalehti (a magazine)
Sutelan Kello ja Kulta (a jeweler)
Helsingin Hautaustoimisto (an undertaker)


Marko
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Re: str.title() fails with words containing apostrophes

[Steve D'Aprano]

On Tue, 7 Mar 2017 01:03 am, Marko Rauhamaa wrote:

> Chris Angelico :
> 
>> Right. If you want true title casing, it has to be *extremely*
>> linguistically-aware.
> 
> For instance, title case has no meaning in the context of Finnish. In
> other words, your internationalized program shouldn't even think of
> title case when localized in Finnish.

If you read "title case" as *literally* as being only for titles (of books,
for instance) then of course you are right. Finnish book titles are
normally written in sentence case (initial capital, followed by all
lowercase).

But if you consider title case more widely, Finnish includes it too. Names
are written in title case ("Marko Rauhamaa" rather than "Marko rauhamaa").
I imagine countries get the same treatment when needed. How do you write
Saudi Arabia, United Kingdom, and North Korea?

I came across this book title:

Täällä Pohjantähden alla (‘Here beneath the North Star’)

http://www.booksfromfinland.fi/1980/12/the-strike/

which is partly title case, but I'm not sure what rule is being applied
there. My guess is that "Täällä Pohjantähden" means "North Star" and it
counts as a proper noun, like countries and people's names, and so takes
initial caps for each word. Am I close?



-- 
Steve
“Cheer up,” they said, “things could be worse.” So I cheered up, and sure
enough, things got worse.

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Re: str.title() fails with words containing apostrophes

[Grant Edwards]

On 2017-03-06, Steve D'Aprano  wrote:
> On Tue, 7 Mar 2017 03:28 am, Grant Edwards wrote:
>
>> On 2017-03-06, Chris Angelico  wrote:
>> 
>>> Still, it's fun to discuss, if only to show why that kind of
>>> locale-aware transformation is important.
>> 
>> Besides locale-aware, it'll need to be style-guide-aware so that it
>> knows whether you want MLA, Chicago, Strunk & White, NYT, Gregg,
>> Mrs. Johnson from 9th grade English class, or any of a dozen or two
>> others.  And that's just for US English.  [For all I know, most of the
>> ones I listed agree completely on "title case", but I doubt it.]
>
> As far as I am aware, there are only two conventions for title case in
> English:
>
> Initial Capitals For All The Words In A Sentence.
>
> Initial Capitals For All the Significant Words in a Sentence.
>
> For some unstated, subjective rule for "significant" which usually
> means "three or more letters, excluding the definite article ('the')".
>
> But of course there are exceptions: words which are necessarily in
> all-caps should stay in all-caps (e.g. NASA) and names.


And you capitalize "insignificant" words at the beginning of the title
or following a colon.  And then there are special cases for hyphenated
words, prepositions that belong to a phrasal verb, and so on and so
forth.

Plus a bunch of exceptions that have been imported from other
languages (this is mostly covered by the "name" exception).

The "name" one is probably the only one that many people will notice
if it's wrong.  Unfortunately, writing an algorithm that can decide
what constitutes a "name" borders on the impossible.

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Re: str.title() fails with words containing apostrophes

[Steve D'Aprano]

On Tue, 7 Mar 2017 03:28 am, Grant Edwards wrote:

> On 2017-03-06, Chris Angelico  wrote:
> 
>> Still, it's fun to discuss, if only to show why that kind of
>> locale-aware transformation is important.
> 
> Besides locale-aware, it'll need to be style-guide-aware so that it
> knows whether you want MLA, Chicago, Strunk & White, NYT, Gregg,
> Mrs. Johnson from 9th grade English class, or any of a dozen or two
> others.  And that's just for US English.  [For all I know, most of the
> ones I listed agree completely on "title case", but I doubt it.]

As far as I am aware, there are only two conventions for title case in
English:

Initial Capitals For All The Words In A Sentence.

Initial Capitals For All the Significant Words in a Sentence.

For some unstated, subjective rule for "significant" which usually
means "three or more letters, excluding the definite article ('the')".

But of course there are exceptions: words which are necessarily in all-caps
should stay in all-caps (e.g. NASA) and names.


-- 
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“Cheer up,” they said, “things could be worse.” So I cheered up, and sure
enough, things got worse.

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Re: str.title() fails with words containing apostrophes

[Grant Edwards]

On 2017-03-06, Chris Angelico  wrote:

> Still, it's fun to discuss, if only to show why that kind of
> locale-aware transformation is important.

Besides locale-aware, it'll need to be style-guide-aware so that it
knows whether you want MLA, Chicago, Strunk & White, NYT, Gregg,
Mrs. Johnson from 9th grade English class, or any of a dozen or two
others.  And that's just for US English.  [For all I know, most of the
ones I listed agree completely on "title case", but I doubt it.]

-- 
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  at   EGO SHATTERING impulse
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Re: str.title() fails with words containing apostrophes

[D'Arcy Cain]

On 2017-03-06 05:04 AM, Peter Otten wrote:

Won't Steve D'aprano And D'arcy Cain Be Happy Now :)


Perhaps one could limit the conversion to go from lower to upper only, as
names tend be in the desired case in the original text.


That would help with acronyms as well.

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Re: str.title() fails with words containing apostrophes

[Marko Rauhamaa]

Chris Angelico :

> Right. If you want true title casing, it has to be *extremely*
> linguistically-aware.

For instance, title case has no meaning in the context of Finnish. In
other words, your internationalized program shouldn't even think of
title case when localized in Finnish.

This localization problem runs even deeper. My Windows Phone displays
the time and date:

15:49
maanantai
6. maaliskuuta

It gets many things right. However, in Finland, nobody ever spells out
the month name in dates. "March 6" should be localized to "6.3.",
preferably to "6.3.2017".

> Still, it's fun to discuss, if only to show why that kind of
> locale-aware transformation is important.

Finland is a bilingual country. You often see street ads for the same
product in Finnish and Swedish. What is notable is that the Finnish and
Swedish variants can have completely different punchlines because a
translation just wouldn't sound good either way.


Marko
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Re: str.title() fails with words containing apostrophes

[Chris Angelico]

On Mon, Mar 6, 2017 at 9:04 PM, Peter Otten <__pete...@web.de> wrote:
> Perhaps one could limit the conversion to go from lower to upper only, as
> names tend be in the desired case in the original text.

No, that just tends to make things confusing to use.

> Unfortunately this won't help with
>
 title("admiral von schneider")
> 'Admiral Von Schneider'  # von should be lower case

On Mon, Mar 6, 2017 at 8:52 PM, Jussi Piitulainen
 wrote:
> It also will capitalize all the little words in the string that are
> usually not capitalized in titles, even in the usual headlinese English
> variants. And all the acronyms and such that are usually written in all
> caps, or in even odder patterns.

Right. If you want true title casing, it has to be *extremely*
linguistically-aware. Each of these highlights the fact that "title
case" does not truly equate to "capitalize each whitespace-delimited
word", so it's going to need some sort of intelligence.

There's probably a linguistic library out there that does all of this,
but it doesn't need to be in the stdlib. I am a little surprised by
the "Don'T" from the OP, but I'm not at all surprised at "Admiral Von
Schneider", nor of "How To Teach Css" and other "anomalies".

Still, it's fun to discuss, if only to show why that kind of
locale-aware transformation is important.

ChrisA
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Re: str.title() fails with words containing apostrophes

[Peter Otten]

Jussi Piitulainen wrote:

> gvm...@gmail.com writes:
> 
>> On Sunday, March 5, 2017 at 11:25:04 PM UTC+5:30, Steve D'Aprano wrote:
>>> I'm trying to convert strings to Title Case, but getting ugly results
>>> if the words contain an apostrophe:
>>> 
>>> 
>>> py> 'hello world'.title()  # okay
>>> 'Hello World'
>>> py> "i can't be having with this".title()  # not okay
>>> "I Can'T Be Having With This"
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Anyone have any suggestions for working around this?
> 
> [snip sig]
> 
>> import string
>>
>> txt = "i can't be having with this"
>> string.capwords(txt)
>>
>> That gives you "I Can't Be Having With This"
>>
>> Hope that helps.
> 
> Won't Steve D'aprano And D'arcy Cain Be Happy Now :)

Perhaps one could limit the conversion to go from lower to upper only, as 
names tend be in the desired case in the original text.

>>> def first_up(s):
... return s[:1].upper() + s[1:]
... 
>>> def title(s):
... return re.compile(r"(?:\b'?)\w+").sub(lambda m: first_up(m.group()), 
s)
... 
>>> title("won't steve D'Aprano and d'arcy cain be 'happy' now?")
"Won't Steve D'Aprano And D'arcy Cain Be 'Happy' Now?"

Unfortunately this won't help with 

>>> title("admiral von schneider")
'Admiral Von Schneider'  # von should be lower case


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Re: str.title() fails with words containing apostrophes

[Jussi Piitulainen]

gvm...@gmail.com writes:

> On Monday, March 6, 2017 at 2:37:11 PM UTC+5:30, Jussi Piitulainen wrote:
>> gvm...@gmail.com writes:
>> 
>> > On Sunday, March 5, 2017 at 11:25:04 PM UTC+5:30, Steve D'Aprano wrote:
>> >> I'm trying to convert strings to Title Case, but getting ugly results
>> >> if the words contain an apostrophe:
>> >> 
>> >> 
>> >> py> 'hello world'.title()  # okay
>> >> 'Hello World'
>> >> py> "i can't be having with this".title()  # not okay
>> >> "I Can'T Be Having With This"
>> >> 
>> >> 
>> >> Anyone have any suggestions for working around this?
>> 
>> [snip sig]
>> 
>> > import string
>> >
>> > txt = "i can't be having with this"
>> > string.capwords(txt)
>> >
>> > That gives you "I Can't Be Having With This"
>> >
>> > Hope that helps.
>> 
>> Won't Steve D'aprano And D'arcy Cain Be Happy Now :)
>
>
> I found it at https://docs.python.org/3/library/string.html#string.capwords :)

Sure, it's there, and that's a good point. It still mangles their names.

It also mangles any whitespace in the string. That is probably mostly
harmless.

It also will capitalize all the little words in the string that are
usually not capitalized in titles, even in the usual headlinese English
variants. And all the acronyms and such that are usually written in all
caps, or in even odder patterns.

I guess it's a somewhat practical approximation to an AI-hard problem.
(Mumble mumble str.swapcase, er, never mind me :)
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Re: str.title() fails with words containing apostrophes

[gvmcmt]

On Monday, March 6, 2017 at 2:37:11 PM UTC+5:30, Jussi Piitulainen wrote:
> gvm...@gmail.com writes:
> 
> > On Sunday, March 5, 2017 at 11:25:04 PM UTC+5:30, Steve D'Aprano wrote:
> >> I'm trying to convert strings to Title Case, but getting ugly results
> >> if the words contain an apostrophe:
> >> 
> >> 
> >> py> 'hello world'.title()  # okay
> >> 'Hello World'
> >> py> "i can't be having with this".title()  # not okay
> >> "I Can'T Be Having With This"
> >> 
> >> 
> >> Anyone have any suggestions for working around this?
> 
> [snip sig]
> 
> > import string
> >
> > txt = "i can't be having with this"
> > string.capwords(txt)
> >
> > That gives you "I Can't Be Having With This"
> >
> > Hope that helps.
> 
> Won't Steve D'aprano And D'arcy Cain Be Happy Now :)


I found it at https://docs.python.org/3/library/string.html#string.capwords :)
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Re: str.title() fails with words containing apostrophes

[gvmcmt]

On Sunday, March 5, 2017 at 11:25:04 PM UTC+5:30, Steve D'Aprano wrote:
> I'm trying to convert strings to Title Case, but getting ugly results if the
> words contain an apostrophe:
> 
> 
> py> 'hello world'.title()  # okay
> 'Hello World'
> py> "i can't be having with this".title()  # not okay
> "I Can'T Be Having With This"
> 
> 
> Anyone have any suggestions for working around this?
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> Steve
> “Cheer up,” they said, “things could be worse.” So I cheered up, and sure
> enough, things got worse.

import string 

txt = "i can't be having with this" 
string.capwords(txt) 

That gives you "I Can't Be Having With This" 

Alternatively

txt = "i can't be having with this"

' '.join([word.capitalize() for word in txt.split()])

will result in: "I Can't Be Having With This"
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Re: str.title() fails with words containing apostrophes

[Jussi Piitulainen]

gvm...@gmail.com writes:

> On Sunday, March 5, 2017 at 11:25:04 PM UTC+5:30, Steve D'Aprano wrote:
>> I'm trying to convert strings to Title Case, but getting ugly results
>> if the words contain an apostrophe:
>> 
>> 
>> py> 'hello world'.title()  # okay
>> 'Hello World'
>> py> "i can't be having with this".title()  # not okay
>> "I Can'T Be Having With This"
>> 
>> 
>> Anyone have any suggestions for working around this?

[snip sig]

> import string
>
> txt = "i can't be having with this"
> string.capwords(txt)
>
> That gives you "I Can't Be Having With This"
>
> Hope that helps.

Won't Steve D'aprano And D'arcy Cain Be Happy Now :)
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Re: str.title() fails with words containing apostrophes

[gvmcmt]

On Sunday, March 5, 2017 at 11:25:04 PM UTC+5:30, Steve D'Aprano wrote:
> I'm trying to convert strings to Title Case, but getting ugly results if the
> words contain an apostrophe:
> 
> 
> py> 'hello world'.title()  # okay
> 'Hello World'
> py> "i can't be having with this".title()  # not okay
> "I Can'T Be Having With This"
> 
> 
> Anyone have any suggestions for working around this?
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> Steve
> “Cheer up,” they said, “things could be worse.” So I cheered up, and sure
> enough, things got worse.


import string

txt = "i can't be having with this"
string.capwords(txt)

That gives you "I Can't Be Having With This"

Hope that helps.
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Re: str.title() fails with words containing apostrophes

[D'Arcy Cain]

On 2017-03-05 03:40 PM, Terry Reedy wrote:

import re

def title(string):
return re.sub(r"\b'\w", lambda m: m.group().lower(), string.title())


Nice.  It lowercases a word char that follows an "'" that follows a word
without an intervening non-word char. It passes this test:
print(title("'time' isn't 'timeless'!"))
'Time' Isn't 'Timeless'!

It guess the reason not to bake this exception into str.title is that it
is language specific and could even be wrong if someone used "'" to
separate words (perhaps in a different alphabet).


Or, it doesn't handle exceptions.

print title("My name is D'Arcy")

Oops.

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Re: str.title() fails with words containing apostrophes

[Terry Reedy]

On 3/5/2017 2:38 PM, MRAB wrote:

On 2017-03-05 17:54, Steve D'Aprano wrote:

I'm trying to convert strings to Title Case, but getting ugly results
if the
words contain an apostrophe:


py> 'hello world'.title()  # okay
'Hello World'
py> "i can't be having with this".title()  # not okay
"I Can'T Be Having With This"


Anyone have any suggestions for working around this?


A bit of regex?

import re

def title(string):
return re.sub(r"\b'\w", lambda m: m.group().lower(), string.title())


Nice.  It lowercases a word char that follows an "'" that follows a word 
without an intervening non-word char. It passes this test:

print(title("'time' isn't 'timeless'!"))
'Time' Isn't 'Timeless'!

It guess the reason not to bake this exception into str.title is that it 
is language specific and could even be wrong if someone used "'" to 
separate words (perhaps in a different alphabet).


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Re: str.title() fails with words containing apostrophes

[MRAB]

On 2017-03-05 17:54, Steve D'Aprano wrote:

I'm trying to convert strings to Title Case, but getting ugly results if the
words contain an apostrophe:


py> 'hello world'.title()  # okay
'Hello World'
py> "i can't be having with this".title()  # not okay
"I Can'T Be Having With This"


Anyone have any suggestions for working around this?


A bit of regex?

import re

def title(string):
return re.sub(r"\b'\w", lambda m: m.group().lower(), string.title())

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str.title() fails with words containing apostrophes

[Steve D'Aprano]

I'm trying to convert strings to Title Case, but getting ugly results if the
words contain an apostrophe:


py> 'hello world'.title()  # okay
'Hello World'
py> "i can't be having with this".title()  # not okay
"I Can'T Be Having With This"


Anyone have any suggestions for working around this?



-- 
Steve
“Cheer up,” they said, “things could be worse.” So I cheered up, and sure
enough, things got worse.

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