from:"Metallicow"

How do I get the OS System Font Directory(Cross-Platform) in python?

Need a simple script for
Windows, Linux, Mac, etc..

Or using wxPython.

I can't seem to find anything that works, and I don't want to hard-code paths.
-- 
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list

Re: How do I get the OS System Font Directory(Cross-Platform) in python?

For a portable font install tool.

Finding if a particular font exists,
useful when testing apps in virtual environent,
rendering text from a font,
Font file manipulations,
etc..
-- 
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list

Re: How do I get the OS System Font Directory(Cross-Platform) in python?

@ Chris “Kwpolska” Warrick
Thanks, that is a start anyway. 
a Pure-Python way was what I was wanting, not win32api stuff.

"C:\Windows\Fonts"
The windows path proves valid. Works on XP, Vista, 7. Not sure about win8...?

Don't have a mac handy, but the link should be enough to help write some code 
before testing. I don't own a mac, but IIRC macs come with python installed, so 
a trip to the apple shop might be in order.

As far as linux goes, basically Ubuntu/Kubuntu(dirivs), Mandriva/Mageia, Mint, 
and some of the more popular distros is all I am really looking for. Checking 
for these is VirtualBox shouldn't be too hard with your instructions and 
platform.linux_distribution()

Thanks again.
Here is the 'Open Font License 1.1 (OFL 1.1)' Fonts I will be using.
http://sourceforge.net/projects/sourcecodepro.adobe/
http://sourceforge.net/projects/sourcesans.adobe/

Also found these links that might help with pathing.
http://www.fontation.com/feature/
http://www.yearbooks.biz/?event=FAQ.Detail&faq=3
-- 
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list

Re: How do I get the OS System Font Directory(Cross-Platform) in python?

On Thursday, July 11, 2013 12:47:01 PM UTC-5, Nobody wrote:
> 
> What makes you think the system *has* a system font directory?

Way back when I was kid, I remember a computer that had two colors and 1 
built-in font and no mouse. Heck the keyboard was even attached in front a tube 
screen box. 
Wow... those were the days. And to think I hated that thing...

If the OS doesn't *have* a dedicated system fonts dir that is accessable by the 
user, then I am not that much interested in dealing with it. Rendering a font 
from a other location will eventually be worked in, but that isn't the problem 
at hand.

-- 
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list

Re: How do I get the OS System Font Directory(Cross-Platform) in python?

On Thursday, July 11, 2013 8:27:04 PM UTC-5, Christian Heimes wrote:
> Am 11.07.2013 19:19, schrieb Metallicow:
> 
> > @ Chris ï¿½Kwpolskaï¿½ Warrick
> 
> > Thanks, that is a start anyway. 
> 
> > a Pure-Python way was what I was wanting, not win32api stuff.
> 
> > 
> 
> > "C:\Windows\Fonts"
> 
> > The windows path proves valid. Works on XP, Vista, 7. Not sure about 
> > win8?
> 
> 
> 
> That's the wrong way to do it. You have to use the proper Windows API to
> 
> get to the font directory. It's SHGetKnownFolderPath() with
> 
> FOLDERID_Font or SHGetFolderPath() with CSIDL_FONTS.
> 
> 
> 
> See http://bugs.python.org/issue1763
> 
> 
> 
> Christian

typo'd instead of copy/pasted. What I meant was... Chris's code...

>>> FONTDIRS = os.path.join(os.environ['WINDIR'], 'Fonts') 
'C:\\WINDOWS\\Fonts'

returned valid as returned string. Forgot to add >>> part.
Is there any way to edit posts? Don't see an edit linky anywhere.
Is there something wrong with using os.environ...?
win32api stuff is another dependency. Is it really needed?
-- 
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list

Re: How do I get the OS System Font Directory(Cross-Platform) in python?

2013-07-12 Thread Metallicow

On Saturday, July 13, 2013 12:36:45 AM UTC-5, Tim Roberts wrote:
> Really?  Because Windows is the ONLY one of the major operating systems
> 
> that actually has a dedicated system fonts directory.  Linux doesn't even
> 
> have a dedicated windowing system.

So... Is it expected to install duplicates to multiple locations with Mac and 
Linux...?

-- 
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list

Embroidermodder2 Kickstarter for Python also!

2014-03-29 Thread Metallicow

Dear Pythoneers,

Just letting you know we got a Kickstarter going on for Embroidermodder2
finally.
We are going to need all the support we can get.
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/redteam316/embroidermodder-2-for-windows-mac-linux-pi-and-ard

What is the program for you may ask...?
It is for making designs and stuff that can be embroidered on just about any
fabric.

It is the first real decent open-source embroidery software that handles many
formats that would meet
standard business/artists needs.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_embroidery_software

As an unofficial developer at this point my involvement hinders in the pure
python
side of things, but only upon project success.
So what that means for everyone is that if the project IS successful,
then I will be doing a pure python port of the application also(In PySide/PyQt
first, then possibly a wxPy port)
working closely with the two lead developers whom of which I know both well and
respect
and can attest to the level of devotion to quality being put into it.
I already have the majority of the GUI code ported at alpha stage ATM so am off
to a good start,
but what is needed is at least initial funding before more work on the python
side can continue,
because we can't sustain self-funding this forever.
Python bindings is a stretch goal also that was initially set.

I don't recall exactly who it was here that joked about wanting the
"Guido Van Rossum World Tour" Shirt, but it can be possible for anyone now
with some basic skills and a machine(or you could take it to a local embroidery
shop).

The program aims to make the designer clothing side of the industry affordable
and introducable for not only a small fry just starting a business, it also
applies to
shops that already exist as it provides open tools easily customizable to meet
the jobs special purpose needs.

So what we need is for the project to succeed by being funded
and custom clothing design will then be finally open to the masses and
so everyone can profit from it.

There are many other rewards to consider also for your pledge.
The campaign is going on until April 20th(Easter), so I encourage everyone
interested
in cheaper quality tools and clothes/etc to pledge what you can.
Lets help these guys out.

Thanks.

Pic to python port WIPz
http://i861.photobucket.com/albums/ab180/metallicow/Python/PySide-PyQt_Port.png
--
https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list

Re: Examples of modern GUI python programms

2014-03-30 Thread Metallicow

On Sunday, March 30, 2014 9:16:06 PM UTC-5, Michael Torrie wrote:
> On 03/30/2014 05:16 PM, D. Xenakis wrote:
> 
> > What i need is to develop an android looking program (entirelly in
> > python) for windows, but dunno if this is possible (most propably
> > is), and which tool between those would help me most: tkinter -
> 
> > wxpython - pyqt - pygtk .
> > 
> > Any examples and suggestions are most welcome.
> 
> Your best bet is to use PyQt.  I bet you can make some android-looking
> UIs using QtQuick (Javascript) with a bit of Python glue.

Well, I wouldn't exactly say that Qt is the way to go just yet...
The author needs to weigh the benefits of each toolkit and make a decision for 
themselves.

As far as Qt is concerned, it is a bit more geared towards mobile apps at this 
point in its python life.
It is a bit nicer with the animated stuff also.
wxPython on the other hand has way better community support than QT side and 
has been around longer, so that may be a consideration.
Tk is alright and bundled with python but requires more work than the others 
and isn't always native looking without a bit of extra work.

Overall if you are fine with using a GUI builder for the GUI framework, then QT 
has a nice put-it-all-together IDE.
If you are looking for a really customized(hand-tweakable) GUI with relative 
hassle, then I would recommend wxPython or if you know Tk this would be ok for 
the majority of stuff, but requires a bit more work.

Another thing to consider is that if you are actually wanting this to work on a 
android or mobile device QT would be a better choice. Especially if touch 
support is an option.
If you are only wanting it to look like android themed app, the other choices 
provide better long term benefits.

As far as pygtk, that fairs better with linux, and in my opinion could use some 
updates platform-wise rounding the bugs out overall.

My opinion would be wxPython if not actually using for a mobile, or PySide if 
you are. Both of these have acceptable licenses if you want to go commercial 
also without having to pay for commercial library usage.
-- 
https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list

Re: Examples of modern GUI python programms

2014-03-31 Thread Metallicow

On Monday, March 31, 2014 3:48:33 AM UTC-5, Sturla Molden wrote:
> If you are to distribute a program using LGPL software on AppStore or
> Gopgle Play, then remember that the user must be allowed to relink the
> program with anpther version of the library. That is an LGPL requirement. I
> don't see how this requirement can be satisfied in this case. Thus, LGPL on
> AppStore or Google Play is probably put of the question. At least on iOS,
> the user cannot change what you put in an App bundle. This excludes
> wxPython and PySide. Thus, the only viable cross-platform choices are
> commercial PyQt + commercial Qt or tkinter. In case of iOS, PyObjC is also
> an option. py2app will also be useful for creating App bundles on iOS.
> 
> Sturla

The OP didn't exactly detail what exactly was being looked for just
"python on windows" basically. So that part still hasn't been answered...
As far as wxPython, that is not LGPL, it is wxPython/wxWidgets which is fine 
for licensing your compiled app as however you want. 
Modifications to the library stuff for example is good in the fact with this 
that most all improvements(to the library-stuff) eventually work their way back 
in or have to be released GPL v2.

One would have to tool through the PySide agreement for their specifics, but as 
I recall it is exactly the same as Qt is, which makes sense. Riverbank/PyQt is 
not Qt, they are a separate entity, just to make that clear. The reason PySide 
was made was because Riverbank didn't want to license their bindings that same 
as Qt basically.

A lot depends on what you intend to do with "the" app and how many hoops you 
are willing to jump through license wise.

Just because a library is LGPL doesn't mean the authors code has to be 
depending on the circumstances. That just means usually you have to be able to 
provide the library code(and your mods to it) used.
If the author doesn't care about releasing his/her own source code, then just 
about any toolkit would be at the same level of "python on windows" for the 
most part.

It all depends on what the target for the app is. "Windows desktop?", "Windows 
Phone?", "MSW XBox?", etc...
-- 
https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list

Re: Examples of modern GUI python programms

2014-03-31 Thread Metallicow

On Monday, March 31, 2014 3:16:16 PM UTC-5, Sturla Molden wrote:
> 
> According to their web page, PySide is only LGPL. Qt is LGPL or commercial.

"""
Licensing

PySide has been published as a response to the lack of suitably licensed Qt 
bindings for Python. PySide is licensed under the LGPL version 2.1 license, 
allowing both Free/Open source software and proprietary software development.
"""

Read the legal definition of/and proprietary, then go consult a lawyer. That is 
caught as an exception/addition to the LGPL in the wording.
I don't think anyone pressing the issue would get very far at all, unless there 
is a real good reason your own non-library source should be disclosed. Are 
there any legal precedents yet? If you didn't pay for it, or don't have a 
class action suit, or is of national security, then good luck. 

So, yes, PySide is acceptable also in certain situations you don't have to 
disclose own source. May need to consult with Qt personally on the matter if a 
Qt license is actually needed for your particular project, but in plain legal 
wording of the LGPL/Qts/PySides agreements, no, it is not but there are a few 
rules that have been layed out you will need to follow if you don't have a Qt 
license.

Anywho, here is some infos detailing a bit more commonly asked situations on 
their forums regarding PySide.
http://qt-project.org/wiki/About-PySide
http://qt-project.org/forums/viewthread/34770

If you do have a Qt license, then the rules change a bit more in your favor at 
levels of what you can ignore, that others can't legally.
A couple of our team members has a license to cover the stuff we do, so I don't 
worry about it much. The majority of it is open anyway, but pity those who 
expect everything for free. *I can hear it now* boo hoo pdf format is finally 
"free and open" after all these years of adobe's money*grubbin*making. geez...
Lesson is: Any software/hardware dev should be familiar with the licensing 
terms of the toolkits they intend to use. There are always hoops to jump 
through for "Free-Types". Everyone needs to eat also, because as of this 
writing "Money" has yet to be abolished in this needy world of ours. And also 
it seems to fuel development in certain cases also.

I often find the writings on the GPL pages about stuff related similarly to 
sound like a Richard being a crybaby at times, even tho I do respect him for 
his views he tries to emboss on everyone to create a 
"not-exactly-freeier-but-just-more-open" overall software society. If everyone 
had a flat wallet, then this idea would work out nicely.
If I ever write a printer driver, I will make sure I license it GPL and 
personally send him a copy to inspect, believe me. Maybe when the next 
raspberry pi revision comes out he'll send 1000's of them out for free also to 
his supporters and developers also, but I somehow doubt it.
http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/proprietary.html

Anyhow, this should hopefully be enough infos for the OP to get a general idea 
of what toolkit would be needed for whatever project is in mind. 
As I say ",If not satisfied, contact sales. They are always reassuring to sound 
the least."
-- 
https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list

trailing underscores naming convention_

2014-05-08 Thread Metallicow

I seem to be comfortable with all the information out around the net dealing
with python naming conventions. Occasionally I have to remind myself on some
of this stuff. The PEP8 does a good job for most of it, but I am having a bit
of trouble finding some more detailed information on the trailing half of
the underscores convention.

The PEP8 says that one_ underscore is basically for helping fix 
python keyword names.
OK. fair enough on that point.

But what is the standards for everything else... purely coders choice?...
...or other...
It would be nice if fellow pythoneers chimed in on the one or two trailing 
underscores convention and how the use it in their code. 

Ok so the situation is I have made myself a subclass of AuiManager.
In AuiManager there is a method named OnLeftDClick.
In my subclass I am not wanting to override(or hence copy the code into mine)
to get my same named method to work as normally with event.Skip().

What I am wanting to do is just add extra functionality to the 
event(it doesn't matter if the event comes before or after) without 
stomping on(overriding) the AuiManager method.

...so what would be proper here for my method name...?
one trailing underscore or two?
OnLeftDClick_(self, event):
or
OnLeftDClick__(self, event):

What is the norm for trailing underscores naming convention overall?
Mostly with func/meth/class naming, but attribute explanation would be nice 
also.
-- 
https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list

Re: trailing underscores naming convention_

2014-05-08 Thread Metallicow

On Thursday, May 8, 2014 10:24:00 PM UTC-6, Ian wrote:
> On Thu, May 8, 2014 at 9:28 PM, Metallicow wrote:
> > I seem to be comfortable with all the information out around the net dealing
> > with python naming conventions. Occasionally I have to remind myself on some
> > of this stuff. The PEP8 does a good job for most of it, but I am having a 
> > bit
> > of trouble finding some more detailed information on the trailing half of
> > the underscores convention.
> >
> > The PEP8 says that one_ underscore is basically for helping fix
> > python keyword names.
> > OK. fair enough on that point.
> >
> > But what is the standards for everything else... purely coders choice?...
> > ...or other...
> > It would be nice if fellow pythoneers chimed in on the one or two trailing
> > underscores convention and how the use it in their code.
> 
> I'm not aware of any convention for trailing underscores other than
> the one described in PEP8.
> 
> >
> > Ok so the situation is I have made myself a subclass of AuiManager.
> > In AuiManager there is a method named OnLeftDClick.
> > In my subclass I am not wanting to override(or hence copy the code into 
> > mine)
> > to get my same named method to work as normally with event.Skip().
> >
> > What I am wanting to do is just add extra functionality to the
> > event(it doesn't matter if the event comes before or after) without
> > stomping on(overriding) the AuiManager method.
> 
> If you use a different name in the subclass then whatever code calls
> the method will continue to call the base class version instead of
> your subclassed version.  Is there a reason you don't just use super()
> to chain the call to the base method?
> 
> def OnLeftDClick(self, event):
> event.Skip()
> super(MyClassName, self).OnLeftDClick(event)

I often see in other folks code methods/funcs/classes, etc with trailing 
underscores in them
and and not sure if that was a convention thing or not. ...So basically
you are telling me it is coders preference/naming style?

I tried the super thing, but in this instance what you posted calls my method 
twice, which isn't desired. 
The renaming comes from the fact that I am only targeting this 
particular subclass for this event extension, otherwise
I would have made a mixin out of it. But for something as simple as a
standard event like this, unless the mixin could be used elsewhere,
outside of this subclass, then making one is basically a waste of time overall.

Anyway, my code works as expected with the _ appended on the method name.
The class method is called, and event.Skip() allows my method to be called also 
without missing anything. I might look at toying with the super way more(it 
probably just needs tweaked a bit). I don't use super in the class __init__ 
anyway for readability and conciseness reasons BTW, just if that super coding 
style was an assumption.
I just was not sure if there was common rules for that type of stuff.
-- 
https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list

Re: trailing underscores naming convention_

2014-05-08 Thread Metallicow

I guess to be more clear here is a small code snippet that shows what is 
happening more readably. Hence the underscores question.



class MainAuiManager(aui.AuiManager):
def __init__(self, managed_window=None, agwFlags=0)
aui.AuiManager.__init__(self, managed_window, agwFlags)

## self.Bind(wx.EVT_LEFT_DCLICK, self.OnLeftDClick)
self.Bind(wx.EVT_LEFT_DCLICK, self.OnLeftDClick_)
self.Bind(wx.EVT_LEFT_DCLICK, self.OnLeftDClick__)
self.Bind(wx.EVT_LEFT_DCLICK, self.OnLeftDClick___)
# etc...

## def OnLeftDClick(self, event):
## """This will override the aui.AuiManager.OnLeftDClick event 
method."""
## event.Skip()
## print('OnLeftDClick')

def OnLeftDClick_(self, event):
"""This will extend the aui.AuiManager.OnLeftDClick event method."""
event.Skip()
print('OnLeftDClick_')

def OnLeftDClick__(self, event):
"""This will extend the aui.AuiManager.OnLeftDClick event method."""
event.Skip()
print('OnLeftDClick__')

def OnLeftDClick___(self, event):
"""This will extend the aui.AuiManager.OnLeftDClick event method."""
event.Skip()
print('OnLeftDClick___')
-- 
https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list

Re: trailing underscores naming convention_

2014-05-09 Thread Metallicow

On Friday, May 9, 2014 3:10:26 AM UTC-6, Peter Otten wrote:
> Metallicow wrote:
> 
> > I guess to be more clear here is a small code snippet that shows what is
> > happening more readably. Hence the underscores question.
> 
> Working with multiple names with small differences is error-prone.
> You should give a method a name that describes what it does rather than when 
> it's invoked:
> 
> > class MainAuiManager(aui.AuiManager):
> > def __init__(self, managed_window=None, agwFlags=0)
> > aui.AuiManager.__init__(self, managed_window, agwFlags)
> 
>   self.Bind(wx.EVT_LEFT_DCLICK, self.EatMagicMushroom)
>   self.Bind(wx.EVT_LEFT_DCLICK, self.KillBlueMonster)
>   self.Bind(wx.EVT_LEFT_DCLICK, self.SingDitty)

While readabily counts, in this case it is pretty readable already.
Actions speak loader than words. In this case action(as with QT) is an event(in 
wxPython).
My actual code would only(realisticly or sanely) extend this event once per 
subclass if at all... 
...Unless there happens to be some crazy need for more(multiple) event methods 
to fire off when 1 event happens. Especially for a class bound intended for a 
top level window such as a frame or dialog.

Anyway, the small snippet just shows that this can be done, but the actual 
question you replied to you left unanswered. It is about the trailing 
underscores.

Now would KillBlueMonsterA vs KillBlueMonsterB vs KillBlueMonster_ be any more
descriptive than OnLeftDClick_ which describes the event happening itself and
the code that extends it by 1, in this case the call order.
I could see the underscore as an extension thereof.
...so maybe OnLeftDClick_Extension_Description_ might be better...
but why the trailing underscores?

Maybe others that do this normally can chime in as to
why they for example would put the underscores on the end, 
if it isn't a common convention. Maybe it is like I see it, as an extextion of 
some
special meaning or reason therof, but isn't always obvious as most like the name
not only desciptive, but short also.
-- 
https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list

Re: PEP8 79 char max

Well as for my opinion, it is more closer to the truth than others because...
Experience:
1. I know Python and have read the PEP8.
2. I have knowledge of/worked with the Printing Trades.
3. Grandfather owned/operated own Printshop for 40+yrs. Which I also worked in 
at one point.

If you are still using equipment that requires 79, then chances are you 
have/will already gone out of business or are keeping/using said equipment for 
nostalgic purposes.

As far as math goes. 10 is a nice round number. So multiples of 10 are prefer. 
80 being my personal choice for editing.

Zen says: Simple is better than complex.
Use a round number. Integer math is easier than float math for the majority of 
the population.
Time yourself, not the interpreter with these three questions:
In the face of ambiguity, refuse the temptation to guess. If it helps get out 
the old school pen and paper.
Question1: 80/8
Question2: 79/8
Question3: How many chars does you calculator(real or virtual) support?


Zen says: Special cases aren't special enough to break the rules.
PEP8 isn't a rule. Rules are defined by the equipment/device developers.

Ask yourself... How often do you actually use these 79char devices?
Of course it is understandable for something small that can fit in your pocket 
might have less. For Example a smartphone.

Zen says:
Although practicality beats purity.
Errors should never pass silently.
Unless explicitly silenced.

PEP8 would have been better to define various numbers for realworld types of 
equipment/devices based on average general type of equipment/device specs.

Closing Zen:
If the implementation is hard to explain, it's a bad idea.
If the implementation is easy to explain, it may be a good idea.

Yep, that's my nuts and bolts on the issue.
Walk into you local Printshop and ask them about this stuff. Then on your way 
out the door, ask for a business card and see how many chars are on that also. 
Beware: You might actually learn something about advertising while you are 
there also.
:) 
-- 
https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list

Re: PEP8 79 char max

On Thursday, September 5, 2013 8:47:01 PM UTC-5, Terry Reedy wrote:
> On 9/5/2013 6:21 PM, Metallicow wrote:
> 
> >
> 
> > If you are still using equipment that requires 79, then chances are you 
> > have/will already gone out of business or are keeping/using said equipment 
> > for nostalgic purposes.
> 
> >
> 
> > As far as math goes. 10 is a nice round number.
> 
> 
> 
> 79 chars + 1 cursor (or \n) == 80, the nice round number.
> 
> 
> 
> Anyway, it is just a guideline. Ignore it if you wish.
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> 
> Terry Jan Reedy

Well, what I interpret as the PEP8 79 is chars visible minus the '\n' or 
'\r\n'(which would be 2; 81) line enders.
This is not stated in PEP8. PEP8 needs a bit of revision anyway, In my 
opinion... According to real-world standards for equipment/devices.
linking to a table/list of affected devices/minNumbers should be the norm.
or

...

from codingguidelines import PEPStandards

... or something similar(Official PEP Zen Guidelines)
-- 
https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list

Re: PEP8 79 char max

On Thursday, September 5, 2013 10:40:46 PM UTC-5, Steven D'Aprano wrote:
> Thanks for the comments, and welcome, but I really don't have a clue what 
> the relevance of most of them are.
Real-world Experience.
> > If you are still using equipment that requires 79, then chances are you
> > have/will already gone out of business or are keeping/using said
> > equipment for nostalgic purposes.
> 
> The point is not that there is *equipment* that requires 79 characters 
> per line, but that *reading text* is better with a maximum line length 
> closer to 79 characters than (say) 140 characters. I've just randomly 
> picked up a magazine (less than 50 characters per line) and two books (60 
> and 82 characters per line respectively).
The argument I am suggesting is 79 vs 80.
> The exact max line length picked is not, in and of itself, critical. PEP 
> 
> 8 could have picked 60 characters, or 72, or 77, or 82. 79 characters 
> (plus newline) happens to be a better choice than (say) 77 or 82 for 
> historical reasons: some *old* computer equipment was limited to 79 
> characters (plus newline), and consequently some *new* computer software 
> expects the same convention to be held.
I propose 80 for Zen: Simplicity.
> In a sense, it's a bit like the old urban legend about the width of the 
> Space Shuttle booster rockets being determined by the width of ancient 
> Roman chariots.
Haha. *Gets a Laugh*
> http://www.snopes.com/history/american/gauge.asp
> 
> While the precise details are wrong, the general claim is more or less 
> true for boring and unremarkable reasons.
Ok.
> > As far as math goes. 10 is a nice round number. So multiples of 10 are
> > prefer. 80 being my personal choice for editing.
> That gives you 80 visible characters plus newline = 81 characters in 
> total. Quick, what's 81/7?
We are focusing on end-users, which might be simple minded. Simple is better 
than complex.
> > Zen says: Simple is better than complex. Use a round number. Integer
> > math is easier than float math for the majority of the population. Time
> > yourself, not the interpreter with these three questions: In the face of
> > ambiguity, refuse the temptation to guess. If it helps get out the old
> > school pen and paper. Question1: 80/8
> > Question2: 79/8
> I don't see the point of this. Why divide by 8? What is this supposed to 
> demonstrate?
Divide by any simple number is 0 simple enouch...?
> Also, you're tossing around koans from a Zen that are irrelevant. 79 or 
> 80, both are equally simple. Where is the ambiguity? The reader might be 
> forgiven for thinking you're trying to dazzle them and pull the wool over 
> their eyes by tossing out references to the Zen that sound good but have 
> no relevance to the question being discussed.
No., 79 and 80 are not equally simple. 79 is odd, and 80 is even.
> 
> > Question3: How many chars does you calculator(real or virtual) support?
> Seven. Are you suggesting that we should limit our code to a maximum of 
Ok. Mine displays ten. This question was to get most people off their duff and 
grab a piece of old-school tech. Might be solar in nature.
> seven characters per line? If not, I don't see the point of your question.
See above answer.
> > Zen says: Special cases aren't special enough to break the rules. PEP8
> > isn't a rule. Rules are defined by the equipment/device developers.
> PEP 8 certainly is a collection of rules. They are mandatory for new code 
> added to the standard library, and optional but recommended for third 
> party libraries.
What are the official rules, then... None...?
> > Ask yourself... How often do you actually use these 79char devices?
> My brain is better at reading lines with maximum line length of 79 
> characters than 140 characters. How often do I use my brain? At least 
> once a day.
> [...]
Ok. I prefer 80 remember. Simple. base 10.
> > Zen says:
> > Although practicality beats purity.
> > Errors should never pass silently.
> > Unless explicitly silenced.
> And yet, a bird in the hand saves nine, and the early bird bells the cat.
if python.notDefined():
cats != birds != cats 
> > PEP8 would have been better to define various numbers for realworld
> > types of equipment/devices based on average general type of
> > equipment/device specs.
> No it would not. That would be silly.
Well... Why Not? What do you use?
> > Closing Zen:
> > If the implementation is hard to explain, it's a bad idea. If the
> > implementation is easy to explain, it may be a good idea.
> The implementation is easy to explain: stop typing before you reach 79 
> characters, and start a new line of code.
I believe Guido once worked for google, why doesn't the software reflect your 
preferences. Ask google, or him, not me.
> > Yep, that's my nuts and bolts on the issue. Walk into you local
> > Printshop and ask them about this stuff. Then on your way out the door,
> > ask for a business card and see how many chars are on that also. Beware:
> > You might actually learn somethi

Re: PEP8 79 char max

On Thursday, September 5, 2013 11:01:31 PM UTC-5, Steven D'Aprano wrote:
> And that's especially badly thought out. How is an import that occurs 
> when the code is *run* supposed to make a difference to the way the code 
> is *written*?

Proofreading.
Or maybe call it pre typesetting.
-- 
https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list

Re: PEP8 79 char max

2013-09-06 Thread Metallicow


RailRoadTieWidth = 79.1234567890

>>> 79 = 'Width Of A Horse"s Ass'
  File "", line 1
SyntaxError: can't assign to literal

>>>RailRoadTieWidth.attribute
("American", "Steam")

>>>79.attribute = ("Roman", "Chariot")
  File "", line 1
79.attribute = ("Roman", "Chariot")
   ^
SyntaxError: invalid syntax

Excuse me if this may be improper in you native language, butt...
If the interpreter didn't have a sense of humor, I believe most people wouldn't 
use python.

Most often it will return an answer, that is concise, but with a bit of flair.

-- 
https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list

Re: PEP8 79 char max

2013-09-06 Thread Metallicow

On Thursday, September 5, 2013 11:01:31 PM UTC-5, Steven D'Aprano wrote:
> On Thu, 05 Sep 2013 19:59:34 -0700, Metallicow wrote:
> > PEP8 needs a bit of revision anyway, In my opinion... According to
> > real-world standards for equipment/devices. linking to a table/list of
> > affected devices/minNumbers should be the norm. or
> 
> I don't believe you have thought this through, or in any detail. The 
> first problem is, what "real-world standards" are you talking about? What 
> sort of devices are you referring to? How is this supposed to work in 
> practice? If I write a Python module, which device am I supposed to pick?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Revision
Why even define a number?
I causes people to argue about it. It is a variable.
I meant a "Reference" Table of equipment/devices.
Most Auto shop have a "Cross-Reference book". Also Johnny Cash built a vehicle 
from 30 years or so different years parts(or I know people who do/can).
Reference PEP8 standard to: A Technical manual per say.
If not make it simple. A multiple of 10, 80 being the closest int and also 
errors on 79 devices. Which then said device should be added to the reference 
manual. Or 70.
Also the pro/cons of this argument should be added to a "Quick-Reference".

Sorry if my opinion was not clear, the first time I posted. As I have been 
answered before, you CANNOT edit posts here. But you could with python... 

-- 
https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list

Re: PEP8 79 char max

2013-09-06 Thread Metallicow

Google(will) Search This Message:
Industry Standards, PEP8, Whitespace, Print, Printing, Opinion'
I could add more... For example: Pantone color wheel.
-- 
https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list

Re: Python GUI?

2013-09-20 Thread Metallicow

On Wednesday, September 11, 2013 3:55:59 PM UTC-5, Eamonn Rea wrote:
> There are a few known GUI toolkits out there, and the main ones from what I 
> can tell are:
> 
> 
> 
> Tkinter -- Simple to use, but limited
> 
> PyQT -- You have a GUI designer, so I'm not going to count that
> 
> PyGTK -- Gnome officially back this I think
> 
> wxPython -- Very nice, very professional, approved by Python creator, but 
> alas hard to get started with
> 
> 
> 
> So, what are your personal preferences and why? Why use X over Y?
> 
> 
> 
> I, personally, really like wxPython, but I also really like Tkinter. I've 
> messed with PyGTK, but I'd choose wxPython over it.
> 
> 
> 
> Have you got anything to say on what one I should be using(excluding PyQT 
> because it has a D&D designer >:( )? Is Tkinter really dead? Should I stick 
> with wxPython?
> 
> 
> 
> It's might be similar to the "What language to use" argument, or the "What 
> background to code on" argument(I prefer darker backgrounds xD Please don't 
> argue about this though!), in the sense that there is *no* answer, just 
> preference.
> 

I prefer wx over qt for these reasons.
Robin works for qt now. *Funny isn't it...*
Basically, To change qt(PySide) you need to pretty much need to be employed by 
qt, not the case with wx(is not a *For profit*, but you can donate.).
In my opinion, in the long run(foreseeing from this point forward)
wx will win, because anybody can create a popular fork. And if it is good 
enough, it might get accepted into the standard dist also.

As far as "mature", well, the previous statement shows that he can make money 
doing it also and enjoy doing what he does in his spare time. I believe Guido 
has the privilege of spending half of his time "At work and getting paid for 
it." on python.
And Project Phoenix(Py2/3) is still on the way. We'll revisit this question 
next year.
-- 
https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list

Re: Python GUI?

2013-09-20 Thread Metallicow

Sorry about that, nokia is/was.
qt was developed(IIRC) for phones. Someone made money. And a lot of it.
wx is a more or less a "free" project.
I don't use a phone anymore. If I had a touch screen phone and was a developer, 
I still wouldn't use one. I have my many reasons why...
-- 
https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list

Animated PNG Vs Gif: 120fr 3D Python Powered Logo

Discussion:

Dear Guido and friends,

Noticed this is gaining alot more support lately.
http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/374397522/apngasm-foss-animated-png-tools-and-apng-standardi

After testing my gif and apng Animated 3D Python Powered Logos...
The difference is real obvious at first. apng wins with speed(gif is limited to
say 1/10sec and apng can do at least 1/80sec) and transparency/color
quality(tested on windows ATM)

Mozilla based browsers, Opera, Chrome(extension), Xnview and some other popular
apps have integrated rendering apng functionality so far...
I wouldn't tend to think that the top browser devs were wrong in their choice.
It would be nice to receive the Guido *nod of approval*... attached samples are
under PSF License or your better suggestion, BDFL.

Hopefully there will be a libpng implementation and pyAPNG stuff(s) worked on
also soon.

Attachments:
Animated Python Powered Logo - 120 frames
1. gif format
2. apng format(if it doesn't animate in your browser, then apng is not
supported yet)

If you like what you see, then consider supporting the devs working on this and
help make it a standard or start devving yourselves.

@pyDEVs: Any news on this yet...?

Python Samples Downloads available:
Animated Python Powered Logo - 120 frames
1 gif & 1 apng samples in download.
http://www.4shared.com/archive/MzoW-0Kt/AnimatedPythonPoweredLogoGifVs.html

I can't seem to attach a file in this group, thus the waiting DL. Apparently, i
am not qualified enough or something here(at least on this group)..., but then
again if every python fanatic that posts spam here did the same, then the world
would turn into eggs.

Your welcome. Python is the Best!

Comments, complaints, spam, eggs, etc., welcome here also.
--
https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list

Re: Python was designed (was Re: Multi-threading in Python vs Java)

Python is the Best!
-- 
https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list

Re: Python was designed (was Re: Multi-threading in Python vs Java)

Are you suggesting Advertising is the Best language there is?
# After many years, I agree not, but what to may...
def If I do Something do, you not react():
 IsMySyntaxNotCorrect()
 CanINotCorrectMyGrammaticalMistakesAndSeekAcceptance():
 # The most arguable language is arguably the most important to discuss.
 # Everyone is of the same basic mindset here.
 # 16 years of reading everyone elses words hasn't changed my view.
 # I make it real, and sometime I don't like it either.
 # Actions speak loader than comments.
 language = python

 benefits = failures
 failures = newTerminology
 newTerminology = newIdeas
 newIdeas = benefits

 Sometimes when the whole world doesn't complain about your 
newTerminology, they are trying to say let it live, but more often they say 
"leave it alone". And Vise Versa.

 But more often they complain about the readability.
 Or the Indenation.
 Or the style of a personal poem.
 Or how the next person should learn it best.
 
I read a indented book first, then I read a un indented book. Sir.
  go figure
 nowpost()
-- 
https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list

Re: Animated PNG Vs Gif: 120fr 3D Python Powered Logo