Generators and propagation of exceptions

2011-04-08 Thread r
I had a problem for which I've already found a "satisfactory"
work-around, but I'd like to ask you if there is a better/nicer
looking solution. Perhaps I'm missing something obvious.

The code looks like this:

stream-of-tokens = token-generator(stream-of-characters)
stream-of-parsed-expressions = parser-generator(stream-of-tokens)
stream-of-results = evaluator-generator(stream-of-parsed-expressions)

each of the above functions consumes and implements a generator:

def evaluator-generator(stream-of-tokens):
  for token in stream-of-tokens:
try:
   yield token.evaluate()   # evaluate() returns a Result
except Exception as exception:
   yield ErrorResult(exception) # ErrorResult is a subclass of Result

The problem is that, when I use the above mechanism, the errors
propagate to the output embedded in the data streams. This means, I
have to make them look like real data (in the example above I'm
wrapping the exception with an ErrorExpression object) and raise them
and intercept them again at each level until they finally trickle down
to the output. It feels a bit like writing in C (checking error codes
and propagating them to the caller).

OTOH, if I don't intercept the exception inside the loop, it will
break the for loop and close the generator. So the error no longer
affects a single token/expression but it kills the whole session. I
guess that's because the direction flow of control is sort of
orthogonal to the direction of flow of data.

Any idea for a working and elegant solution?

Thanks,

-r
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Re: Generators and propagation of exceptions

2011-04-08 Thread r
Terry, Ian, thank you for your answers.

On Sat, Apr 9, 2011 at 1:30 AM, Terry Reedy  wrote:
[...]
> According to the above, that should be stream-of-parsed-expressions.

Good catch.

> The question which you do not answer below is what, if anything, you want to
> do with error? If nothing, just pass. You are now, in effect, treating them
> the same as normal results (at least sending them down the same path), but
> that does not seem satisfactory to you. If you want them treated separately,
> then send them down a different path. Append the error report to a list or
> queue or send to a consumer generator (consumer.send).

The code above implements an interactive session (a REPL). Therefore,
what I'd like to get is an error information printed out at the output
as soon as it becomes available. Piping the errors together with data
works fine (it does what I need) but it feels a bit clunky [1]. After
all exceptions were specifically invented to simplify error handling
(delivering errors to the caller) and here they seem to chose a
"wrong" caller.

Ignoring the errors or collecting them out of band are both fine ideas
but they don't suit the interactive mode of operation.

[1] It's actually not _that_ bad. Exceptions still are very useful
inside of each of these procedures. Errors only have to be handled
manually in that main data path with generators.

Thanks,

-r
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Re: Generators and propagation of exceptions

2011-04-08 Thread r
On Sat, Apr 9, 2011 at 3:22 AM, Raymond Hettinger  wrote:
>
> You could just let the exception go up to an outermost control-loop
> without handling it at all on a lower level.  That is what exceptions
> for you: terminate all the loops, unwind the stacks, and propagate up
> to some level where the exception is caught:
>
>  while 1:
>     try:
>        results = evaluator-generator(stream-of-parsed-expressions)
>        for result in results:
>            print(result)
>     except Exception as e:
>        handle_the_exception(e)

I've been thinking about something like this but the problem with
shutting down the generators is that I lose all the state information
associated with them (line numbers, have to reopen files if in batch
mode etc.). It's actually more difficult than my current solution.

> OTOH, If you want to catch the exception at the lowest level and wrap
> it up as data (the ErrorResult in your example), there is a way to
> make it more convenient.  Give the ErrorResult object some identify
> methods that correspond to the methods being called by upper levels.
> This will let the object float through without you cluttering each
> level with detect-and-reraise logic.

I'm already making something like this (that is, if I understand you
correctly). In the example below (an "almost" real code this time, I
made too many mistakes before) all the Expressions (including the
Error one) implement an 'eval' method that gets called by one of the
loops. So I don't have to do anything to detect the error, just have
to catch it and reraise it at each stage so that it propagates to the
next level (what I have to do anyway as the next level generates
errors as well).

class Expression(object):
def eval(self):
pass

class Error(Expression):
def __init__(self, exception):
self.exception = exception

def eval(self):
raise self.exception

def parseTokens(self, tokens):
for token in tokens:
try:
yield Expression.parseToken(token, tokens)
except ExpressionError as e:
# here is where I wrap exceptions raised during parsing and embed them
yield Error(e)

def eval(expressions, frame):
for expression in expressions:
try:
# and here (.eval) is where they get unwrapped and raised again
yield unicode(expression.eval(frame))
except ExpressionError as e:
# here they are embedded again but because it is the last stage
# text representation is fine
yield unicode(e)


>   class ErrorResult:
>       def __iter__(self):
>           # pass through an enclosing iterator
>           yield self
>
> Here's a simple demo of how the pass through works:
>
>    >>> from itertools import *
>    >>> list(chain([1,2,3], ErrorResult(), [4,5,6]))
>    [1, 2, 3, <__main__.ErrorResult object at 0x2250f70>, 4, 5, 6]

I don't really understand what you mean by this example. Why would
making the Error iterable help embedding it into data stream? I'm
currently using yield statement and it seems to work well (?).

Anyway, thank you all for helping me out and bringing some ideas to
the table. I was hoping there might be some pattern specifically
designed for thiskind of job (exception generators anyone?), which
I've overlooked. If not anything else, knowing that this isn't the
case, makes me feel better about the solution I've chosen.

Thanks again,

-r
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Re: State of the art: Tkinter, Tk 8.5, Tix?

2009-01-10 Thread r
We need TK 8.5's themes. This will bring Tkinter out of the dark ages
and into the 21st Century! And improve the shine of the Python base
distro. Python could use a good boost right now!
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Re: State of the art: Tkinter, Tk 8.5, Tix?

2009-01-10 Thread r
On Jan 10, 3:05 pm, excord80  wrote:
> On Jan 10, 11:45 am, r  wrote:
>
> > We need TK 8.5's themes. This will bring Tkinter out of the dark ages
> > and into the 21st Century! And improve the shine of the Python base
> > distro. Python could use a good boost right now!
>
> Could someone please explain what Tix provides compared to what the
> new stuff in Tk 8.5 provides? Is there much overlap?

TIX is just a set of compound widgets that were not included in the
base Python Tkinter distro(notebook, label entry, etc... Now, it looks
like they are standard. The new 8.5 TK includes support for OS
specific themes, so as to give a more native feel to TK apps, hence
the 21st century analogy :)
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Re: Does Python really follow its philosophy of "Readability counts"?

2009-01-11 Thread r
On Jan 11, 6:00 pm, Roy Smith  wrote:
> In article
> <34c95e04-5b3f-44bc-a5bf-498518507...@p36g2000prp.googlegroups.com>,
>
>  "Madhusudan.C.S"  wrote:
> > In such situations, where the Instance variables come into existence
> > only when they are used it is very difficult to track the flow of code.
>
> As the saying goes, "It's possible to write Fortran in any language".
>
> My personal habit is to "declare" all instance variables in the __init__()
> method of every class.  If there's no better value, I set them to None.  
> This isn't strictly required, but I think it makes it easier for somebody
> reading the code to understand the class.
>
> I'm not a big fan of dogmatic rules, other than the rule that says you
> should make your code as easy for somebody else to understand as possible.

Roy i totally agree and as i read down this thread i was thinking i
might get to spit that out first but you beat me -- Darn!

PS: your explanation is also much more eloquent than mine would have
been  :)
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Re: Does Python really follow its philosophy of "Readability counts"?

2009-01-12 Thread r
On Jan 12, 2:06 pm, Bruno Desthuilliers
 wrote:
> Why on earth are you using Python if you don't like the way it work ???

Why on earth are you busting into someone's thread just because you
don't like what they have to say ???

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Re: Does Python really follow its philosophy of "Readability counts"?

2009-01-12 Thread r
[stevie]
On the other hand... Bruno's question is unfair. It is perfectly
reasonable to (hypothetically) consider Python to be the best
*existing*
language while still wanting it to be improved (for some definition
of
improvement). Just because somebody has criticisms of Python, or a
wish-
list of features, doesn't mean they hate the language.
[/stevie]

WOW Steven, i am very impressed. That's the first thing you have said
in a very long time that i totally agree with! Keep this up and i may
put you back on my Python Brethren list :)

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Re: Does Python really follow its philosophy of "Readability counts"?

2009-01-12 Thread r
On Jan 12, 3:58 pm, Paul Rubin  wrote:
> We are in an era for programming languages sort of like the Windows 95
> era was for operating systems, where everything is broken but some of
> the fixes are beginning to come into view.  So there is no language
> that currently really works the right way, but some of them including
> Python are (one hopes) moving in good directions.  Maybe I can help
> that process along by posting, maybe not.

Paul,
Python is the best hope for readable, maintainable very high-level
coding. Python forged the path and showed all other languages for what
they truly are; archaic, redundant, pieces of complete rubbish! In my
mind only 2 languages stand out in the very high level category;
Python and Ruby. Ruby only exists in this world because of the things
it took from Python. Nobody would touch Ruby without it's Pythonisms.
Python wins hands down, WHY? you ask. Well i could list a thousand
reasons why but i will only cover a few.

1.) read-ability
2.) learn-ability
3.) maintain-ability
4.) perfect choice of keywords
5.) no end statement, braces, or lisps!
6.) no forced capitalizations
7.) modules are the actual script name
8.) introspection
9.) class, and class inheritance is beautiful
8.) true procedural support(no instance vars needed)
10.) loads of quality documentation!
11.) IDLE
12.) Guido (the genius that made all this happen!)

I could keep going for days and days. Python is hands down the best
thing that ever happened to the world of programming. Sure it could
use a few improvements, nothing and nobody is perfect. But can any
language stand toe to toe with Python? HELL NO!
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Re: Does Python really follow its philosophy of "Readability counts"?

2009-01-12 Thread r
On Jan 12, 5:34 pm, Paul Rubin <http://phr...@nospam.invalid> wrote:
> r  writes:
> > Python and Ruby. Ruby only exists in this world because of the things
> > it took from Python. Nobody would touch Ruby without it's Pythonisms.
>
> I confess to not knowing much about Ruby.  It looks sort of Perl-ish
> to me, and I always hear it is slower than Python, which is already
> too slow.

There exists in the world of very-high-level languages only two big
players -- Python and Ruby. The only reason Ruby even exist is because
of what Mats stole from Python. Ruby is a corrupting and hideous
language, that will ruin all future "scripters" with it's abominations
of coding styles. Ruby is basically Perl's "Mini-Me". A small but
deadly form of viral infection that will plague us all for many years
to come with unreadable, unmaintainable code! I lament every day the
creation of Ruby language. Ruby took the only good things it possess
from Python.

A little History Lesson:
Python came into being around 1991 by a computer science genius named
"Guido van Rossum". This man is truly a man before his time. Python
revolutionized the world of programming and exposed the other
languages for what they are. Archaic, and redundant pieces of
petrified dino dookie. Python promotes good coding styles by
indentation(ruby stole that) Python's syntax is clear, and choice of
keywords is perfect(ruby stole some of that too). Python allows for
true OOP and true procedural(ruby tried to steal that but failed
miserably)

I like to think of Python as simplistic programming elegance. No other
high level language can compete with Python, so what did Ruby DEV do?
They stole from Python, thats what! And they did not bother to mention
this little tidbit of info to new recruits on their website!Tthey act
as if Ruby were here first. And pay no respect to the path Python
forged. Ruby owes it's very existence to Python!

I will never get over the use of "end". Why on GODS green earth would
you use indentation AND the "end" statement? That's completely
redundant. That would be the same as using two periods at the end of a
sentence.. Complete monkey logic!

Python is better, but we must stay alert and not fall asleep at the
wheel. I think Python DEV has good intention, but they do not realize
the battle that lay ahead. We must fight to get Python in every API we
can. We must stay on our toes and not let Ruby one-up us! I do not
want to see Python go down the evolutionary toilet! Lets send Ruby to
programming HELL!


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Re: Does Python really follow its philosophy of "Readability counts"?

2009-01-13 Thread r
> public = no leading underscore
> private = one leading underscore
> protected = two leading underscores
>
> Python uses encapsulation by convention rather than by enforcement.

Very well said Terry!

I like that python does not force me to do "everything" but does force
things like parenthesis in a function/method call whether or not an
argument is required/expected. This makes for very readable code.
Visual parsing a Python file is very easy on the eyes due to this fact
-- Thanks Guido! We do not need to add three new keywords when there
is an accepted Pythonic way to handle public/private/protected
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Re: Does Python really follow its philosophy of "Readability counts"?

2009-01-13 Thread r
On Jan 13, 9:50 pm, Carl Banks  wrote:
[snip]
it gives
> the library implementor the power to dictate to the user how they can
> and can't use the library.  The cultural impact that would have on the
> community is far worse, IMHO, than any short-sighted benefits like
> being able to catch an accidental usage of an internal variable.
> Trust would be replaced by mistrust, and programming in Python would
> go from a pleasant experience to constant antagonism.
[snip]
> Carl Banks

I agree, the second the Python interpretor say's NO! you cant do that
or i will wrap your knuckles! is the day i leave Python forever. I
hear C programmers complain all the time about Python saying; "Well, I
like in "C" that variable types must be declared because this keeps me
from making mistakes later" -- hog wash! Just learn to think in a
dynamic way and you will never have any problems. If you need a hand
holding language i guess Python is not for you. And don't forget, you
can learn a lot from your mistakes.

They are so brainwashed by this mumbo-jumbo, i see them do this all
the time...

int_count = 0
float_cost = 1.25
str_name = "Bob"

They can't think in a dynamic way because momma "C" has done it for
them for too long. "Eat your Peas and carrots now little C coder"  :D
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Re: Does Python really follow its philosophy of "Readability counts"?

2009-01-13 Thread r
Here is a piece of C code this same guy showed me saying Pythonic
indention would make this hard to read -- Well lets see then!

I swear, before god, this is the exact code he showed me. If you don't
believe me i will post a link to the thread.

//  Warning ugly C code ahead!
if( is_opt_data() < sizeof( long double ) ) { // test for insufficient
data
return TRUE; // indicate buffer empty
  } // end test for insufficient data
  if( is_circ() ) { // test for circular buffer
if( i < o ) { // test for data area divided
  if( ( l - o ) > sizeof( long double ) ) { // test for data
contiguous
*t = ( ( long double * ) f )[ o ]; // return data
o += sizeof( long double ); // adjust out
if( o >= l ) { // test for out wrap around
  o = 0; // wrap out around limit
} // end test for out wrap around
  } else { // data not contiguous in buffer
return load( ( char * ) t, sizeof( long double ) ); // return
data
  } // end test for data contiguous
} else { // data are not divided
  *t = ( ( float * ) f )[ o ]; // return data
  o += sizeof( long double ); // adjust out
  if( o >= l ) { // test for out reached limit
o = 0; // wrap out around
  } // end test for out reached limit
} // end test for data area divided
  } else { // block buffer
*t = ( ( long double * ) f )[ o ]; // return data
o += sizeof( long double ); // adjust data pointer
  } // end test for circular buffer


if i where to write the same code in a 'Python style" it would look
like below. And personally i would never use that many comments in my
code. I normally in a situation as this one would only comment each
major conditional code block, and only if it contains code that is not
completely obvious. Commenting is important, but it *can* be over
done.

#-- Python Style --#
if is_opt_data() < sizeof(long double):
  return TRUE
  if is_circ():
if i < o: #test for data area divided
  if (l-o) > sizeof(long double): #test for data contiguous
*t = ( ( long double * ) f )[ o ]
o += sizeof( long double )
if o >= l:
  o = 0
  else: #data not contiguous in buffer
return load((char*) t, sizeof(long double))
else: #data are not divided
  *t = ((float*) f)[ o ]
  o += sizeof(long double)
  if o >= l: #test for out reached limit
o = 0
  else: #block buffer
*t = ((long double*) f)[ o ]
o += sizeof(long double)

WOW!, without all the braces, and over commenting,  i can actually
read this code now! Of course it would not run in C or Python but the
point here is readability. Python forged the path for all 21st century
languages. Get on board, or get on with your self.extinction() -- Your
Choice!

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point class help

2009-01-14 Thread r
I am hacking up a point class but having problems with how to properly
overload some methods. in the __add__, __sub__, __iadd__, __isub__, I
want to have the option of passing an instance or a container(list,
tuple) like

>>> p1 = Point2d(10,10)
>>> p1 += (10,10)
>>> p1
Point2d(20,20)
>>>
>>> p2 = Point2d(10,10)
>>> p2 += p1
>>> p2
Point2d(30,30)


here is what i have, it would seem stupid to use a conditional in each
method like this...

def method(self, other):
if isinstance(other, Point2d):
x, y = origin.x, origin.y
else:
x, y = origin[0], origin[1]
#modify self.x & self.y with x&y

there must be a way to get the x, y with reusable code, i am not about
to have this conditional under every method call, What am i missing
here?


class Point2d():
def __init__(self, x, y=None):
if type(x) == tuple:
self.x = x[0]
self.y = x[1]
else:
self.x = x
self.y = y

def __str__(self):
return 'Point2d(%f, %f)' %(self.x, self.y)

def __add__(self, other):
if isinstance(other, Point2d):
x, y = origin.x, origin.y
else:
x, y = origin[0], origin[1]
return (self.x+x, self.y+y)

def __sub__(self, other):
pass

def __iadd__(self, other): #+=
pass

def __isub__(self, other): #-=
pass

any ideas?
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Re: point class help

2009-01-14 Thread r
before anybody say's anything, i screwed up when i pasted the code,
here is what i really have...

def method(self, other):
if isinstance(other, Point2d):
x, y = other.x, other.y
else:
x, y = other[0], other[1]
return self.x+x, self.y+y


#and the fixed class :)
class Point2d():
def __init__(self, x, y=None):
if type(x) == tuple:
self.x = x[0]
self.y = x[1]
else:
self.x = x
self.y = y
def __str__(self):
return 'Point2d(%f, %f)' %(self.x, self.y)
def __add__(self, other):
if isinstance(other, Point2d):
x, y = other.x, other.y
else:
x, y = other[0], other[1]
return (self.x+x, self.y+y)
def __sub__(self, other):
pass
def __iadd__(self, other): #+=
pass
def __isub__(self, other): #-=
pass

PS: i know i could have one method like

def get_xy(self, other):
#conditional

and then call it like

x, y = self.get_xy(other)

but that seems pretty clumsy. There must be a more Pythonic way!
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Re: point class help

2009-01-14 Thread r
On Jan 14, 10:44 am, Steve Holden  wrote:
> Thous it does seem particularly perverse to have the add method not
> itself return a Point.

Thanks Steve,
i was going implement exactly this but thought there "might" be a
better way i did not know about. So i feel better about myself
already. And your right, i should be returning a Point2d()
Many Thanks


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Suggested improvements for IDLE (non-official)

2009-01-14 Thread r
I actually like the IDLE, but it could use a few improvements. If
anybody else has suggestions by all means post them.

1.) The text widget and the prompt(>>>) should be separated. Trying to
write a conditional in the interactive IDLE is a real PITA. Not to
mention if you copy the working code snippet to the IDLE editor window
the indention is 8 spaces instead 4 AND you've got that prompt(>>>)
stuck in there. I have a solution for the problem though.( I hope you
all are using fixed-width font)

frm |<-text widget ->
>>> |
>>> |if this == 1:
... |if that == 2:
... |#do
... |elif that ==3:
... |#do
... |else:
... |pass
>>> |
>>> |x = 10

Basically you have a Listbox on the left for the prompt and a Text on
the right. Disable the Listbox highlight and key press events and now
we have a very friendly interactive IDLE! No more prompt hijacking
your snippets, and no more 8 space indention!

2.) When you press MMB and there is a highlighted selection in the
text it gets pasted over and over again @ the insertion cursor (gives
me the red @ss!)

Anybody want to comment or add suggestions?
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Re: Suggested improvements for IDLE (non-official)

2009-01-14 Thread r
Hello James,
I actually want to trash IDLE and start over. I would be willing to do
a complete re-write. I have already made a template GUI that works
(early stages). I am wondering if anyone else might be interested in
taking this on with me? IMO IDLE is full of fluff where it should not
be, and thin where it should be fat. Trim off the fat and lean this
puppy up! I like that in ActiveState's version you can delete as much
text as you want. IDLE won't allow it.

I want a better setup for extensions, and complete control of mouse
and key bindings for the user. We need to clean the dust off and
polish IDLE up a bit. If not, i will just write up a simplified
version it for myself. I just thought someone out there may be
thinking like i am.
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Re: Suggested improvements for IDLE (non-official)

2009-01-14 Thread r
On Jan 14, 4:43 pm, Terry Reedy  wrote:
[snip]
> I think the 'main' IDLE maintainer is no longer active.  I think someone
> who would do more than fix critical bugs might be welcome.

Hello Terry,
That's what i was beginning to think. I am not quite ready (as far as
my skills are concerned) to put out something that would be as useful
to many people. I could hack together something real quick for myself.
This is why i am looking for like-minded people who would be
interested in this. I have the foresight and willpower at this point
to contribute something meaningful to the Python community -- to give
back.

OFF-TOPIC:(but related)
What is the state of Tkinter at this point. Is an active effort under
way to port TK 8.5 into Python? Tkinter and IDLE are very important to
Python, but i understand there are much more important areas where the
GURU's are concentrating. Should there be a calling for "others" to
get involved here? I would like to help out.
Thanks
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Re: Possible bug in Tkinter - Python 2.6

2009-01-15 Thread r
First of all be very careful using from "module" import * or you will
have name conflicts. Tkinter is made to be imported this way and i do
it all the time. for the others do.

import tkMessageBox as MB
import tkFileDialog as FD
or whatever floats your boat.

Secondly i hear all the time about problems with fedora distros, so
that would explain the issue to me.
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Re: Does Python really follow its philosophy of "Readability counts"?

2009-01-15 Thread r
On Jan 14, 1:16 pm, Paul Rubin  wrote:
> "Russ P."  writes:
[snip]
> I have a situation which I face almost every day, where I have some
> gigabytes of data that I want to slice and dice somehow and get some
> numbers out of.  I spend 15 minutes writing a one-off Python program
> and then several hours waiting for it to run.  If I used C instead,
> I'd spend several hours writing the one-off program and then 15
> minutes waiting for it to run, which is not exactly better.  
[snip]
> I would be ecstatic with a version of Python where I might have to
> spend 20 minutes instead of 15 minutes writing the program, but then
> it runs in half an hour instead of several hours and doesn't crash.  I
> think the Python community should be aiming towards this.

You and Everybody -- would be "ecstatic" if this could happen. But
first someone has to design such a complex implementation. You want
everything, but there is a trade-off.

You said you wrote this program in 15 min. How much testing did you
actually do on this data before running it? If you told me you spent
more than 15 minutes i would not believe you. Look, Python is not a
compiled language -- and for good reason -- so for now you need to do
more initial testing if you plan to run a "15 min hack script" on a
multi-GB data source file, and then throw a temper-tantrum when the
damn thing blows chunks!

If Python could give the benefits of compiled languages whilst being
interpreted(without taking the "fun" out of Python), that would be
wonderful, but can you implement such a system? Can anybody at this
point?

If you can, i can assure you will be worshiped as a God.
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Re: Does Python really follow its philosophy of "Readability counts"?

2009-01-15 Thread r
On Jan 15, 11:13 am, Paul Rubin  wrote:
> Roy Smith  writes:
> > C is not evil.  It's a tool.  Would you call a hammer evil because it's not
> > very good at driving screws?  
>
> I would call a hammer evil if it were built in a way that made it
> unnecessarily likely to hit your thumb.
>
> > C is a very good tool for doing the kind of thing it was designed
> > for, which is highly efficient, low-level, portable programming.
> > The fact that C has been used to write all sorts of large-scale
> > applications doesn't mean that it's good at that kind of stuff.  It just
> > means that all the alternatives suck more than it does for that kind of
> > stuff.
>
> I don't think so:  http://www.adaic.org/whyada/ada-vs-c/cada_art.html

Hammers are not evil, they have no logic, interpreters and compilers
are not evil either -- you and i control there every move. The hammer
will go exactly where you guide it to -- if that happens to be you
thumb...??

Python does exactly what it's told, if you tell Python to smash your
thumb, Python will gladly comply :)
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Re: Does Python really follow its philosophy of "Readability counts"?

2009-01-15 Thread r
Paul Rubin
> I would say hours, in the sense that the program ran correctly for
> that long, processing several GB's of data before hitting something
> obscure that it couldn't handle.  This is not a single incident, it's


So what was the fatal error, care to post a traceback?
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Re: Does Python really follow its philosophy of "Readability counts"?

2009-01-15 Thread r
On Jan 15, 11:59 am, Paul Rubin <http://phr...@nospam.invalid> wrote:
> r  writes:
> > So what was the fatal error, care to post a traceback?
>
> Usually it's "expected to find some value but got None", or got a
> list, or expected some structure but got a different one, or some
> field was missing, etc.  It's not a single traceback, it's a recurring
> theme in developing this stuff.  

Sounds like the results of poor testing and lack of design good
program logic
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Re: Does Python really follow its philosophy of "Readability counts"?

2009-01-15 Thread r
Heres a little food for thought,
Maybe you did tell Python to hit the nail head, but your calculations
of the direction vector were slightly off. Instead of a direct hit,
the hammer grazed the head and now the resultant vector aims strait
for your thumb -- Who's to blame here?
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Re: Does Python really follow its philosophy of "Readability counts"?

2009-01-15 Thread r
On Jan 15, 12:25 pm, Paul Rubin <http://phr...@nospam.invalid> wrote:
> r  writes:
> > Sounds like the results of poor testing and lack of design good
> > program logic
>
> It would sure be nice if the language made it easier, not harder.

I am for anything that makes debugging easier, as long as that "thing"
doesn't take away the freedom i enjoy while writing Python code. If
you can give me both then i will support your efforts -- The world
does not need two Javas!

Python's existence resides in a unique niche, Simplistic-Elegant-
Programming-Bliss. Python promotes self reliance, you don't get the
safety net you do with other languages. You must consider all the
consciences/possible side-effects of your code.

If you are going to use Python to design enormous systems(or operate
on enormous data sources) -- at this point --, then you will need to
do some enormous testing.

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Cannot contact Python webmaster!

2009-01-21 Thread r
Does anybody know how to get in touch with the www.python.org website
maintainers? i sent mail to webmas...@python.org but it just bounces
back. Is anybody even there? :)
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Find all available Tkinter cursor names?

2009-01-22 Thread r
Anybody know how to find all the available Tkinter cursor icon names,
or where the icons are stored?  like "paintbrush" "pencil" etc...
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Re: Find all available Tkinter cursor names?

2009-01-22 Thread r
Thanks Kevin,
These are exactly the ones i already knew about. I was hoping there
where more, shucks!. I wonder how i could go about making my own
cursors and adding them to Tkinter? Have any ideas?
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Re: What is intvar?

2009-01-22 Thread r
here is a good explanation of control vars:
http://infohost.nmt.edu/tcc/help/pubs/tkinter/control-variables.html

Here are 3 great Tkinter refernces in order:
http://infohost.nmt.edu/tcc/help/pubs/tkinter/
http://effbot.org/tkinterbook/
http://www.pythonware.com/library/tkinter/introduction/
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Re: Find all available Tkinter cursor names?

2009-01-23 Thread r
On Jan 23, 9:18 am, Kevin Walzer  wrote:
> http://wiki.tcl.tk/8674might offer some help in this regard.
> Kevin Walzer
> Code by Kevinhttp://www.codebykevin.com

Many Thanks Kevin, this may help!
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Re: Suggested improvements for IDLE (non-official)

2009-01-23 Thread r
On Jan 16, 1:55 am, Terry Reedy  wrote:
> > Maybe I'm misunderstanding something here, but "About Idle" in Python
> > 2.6.1 (win32) says "Tk version: 8.5"


As to Tk, i was referring to Themes. I may have the versions mixed up
but the newest TK supports themes and i would love to get that support
into Tkinter, This will help shine up python a bit.
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Re: Why this code is working?

2009-01-23 Thread r
Yes promoting freedom, claiming that freedom is a good thing, and not
being afraid to open my mouth about it, fight for it, free others from
their bonds, makes me free.

No presumption was made about the OP, the only "meaning" in my message
was to free the OP from his self imposed bonds while using Python. You
made this political. Seems like you have a predisposition of hate
towards me, maybe it is unconscience and you do not realize it, but i
highly doubt it.

Come down from your tower of righteousness Deiz, loosen up that stiff-
upper-lip and bring your brown-nosing minions with you!
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Re: *.python.org broken?

2009-01-24 Thread r
On Jan 24, 7:06 pm, tgvaug...@gmail.com wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> Is anybody else having trouble accessing sites (including www, docs,
> wiki) in the python.org tree, or is it just me? (Or just .au?)
>
> Cheers,
>
> Tim

No problem here???
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Re: Why this code is working?

2009-01-25 Thread r
On Jan 23, 10:02 pm, alex23  wrote:
[snip]
> How's that Python bridge to SketchUp coming
> along? It's been months already, surely you've invested as much effort
> into learning Python as you have in talking about it?

Thanks for asking Alex23,
The ball is rolling on the Python SketchUp integration as we speak,
many people are very excited to start coding in Python. Would you care
to join our pursuits alex?
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Re: What is intvar?

2009-01-25 Thread r
W. eWatson,

I contacted the author of New Mexico Techs "Introduction to Tkinter" a
couple of weeks ago. He is going to update the reference material with
a few missing widgets and some info on Photo and Bitmap classes. I
really love the NMT layout and use it quite often. Fredricks
Tkinterbook is more detail but lacking in navigation. I swing back and
forth between both sites.




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Re: Why this code is working?

2009-01-25 Thread r
Actually Alex, i have not stopped working on getting Python into SU in
one form or another since that crazy post of mine almost 3 moths ago.
I have many people in the SU community asking me almost daily when i
will get finished. I have a lot of work to do at this point but i will
keep fighting because i believe Python will greatly benefit all SU
users.

1.) Python has tons and tons of well written tutorials aimed at Non-
programmers.
2.) Python is easy to learn making it the perfect choice for any API
3.) Python has an easy to use built-in GUI (Tkinter)
4.) Python allows for true procedural and true OOP programming. OOP
can sometimes trip up a new programming student.

I feel it is much easier to learn procedural coding and then move into
OOP. OOP is not really hard to comprehend, but learning to program and
at the same time dealing with the abstraction of OOP is a little much
to take on. And since an API will be utilized mostly by non-
programmers/intermediant as well as pros, Python lends itself as the
best option available today for all skill levels!

Once i finally get Python interpretor into SU, i plan to write a
tutorial (free of course) specific aimed at SU users who want to
script. Not only will this cover Python Programming but will
completely cover the Python SU-API.

SU is exploding daily, group membership is @ 14000+ and spam is almost
nonexistent. This application is truly revolutionary and we must get
Python in before it is too late. I have talked with a members of the
SU DEV team and he would love to see Python scripting in SU. He also
told me they have kicked around the idea of other languages in the
past, so Python would be a prime choice.

SU is changing the world of modeling the way Python changed the world
of programming.I hang out quite a bit in the Google SketchUp Help
Groups guiding new users. During this time i have seen many people
stuggle with scripting the application. This is where i truly believe
Python can fill a void and shine.

The combination of Sketchup's intuitive and ground-breaking UI,
coupled with the common sense approach and simplistic elegance of
Python will be an unstoppable force. Not only will this expand Python
and Sketchup's influence, but will give a SketchUp user the complete
power they need over the application -- in the quickest, and most
painless way.

...

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IDLE 3000 (suggested improvements)

2009-01-27 Thread r
Proposal:
OK, so the python language has officially moved into the next level. I
look at IDLE and think, hmm great IDE but it could really use a spit
shining. So here is a very simple script showing my ideas to improve
IDLE.

Reason for change:
The text widget and the prompt(>>>) should be separated. Trying to
write a conditional in the interactive IDLE is a real pain. Not to
mention that when you copy code from Interactive  IDLE to the IDLE
editor window the indention is eight spaces instead four and you've
got that prompt(>>>) stuck in there. I have a solution for the problem
though.

I hope you are using fixed-width font

Lst|<- Text Widget >|
   ||
>>>|if this:|
...|if that:|
...|... |
...|elif that:  |
...|... |
...|else:   |
...|... |
>>>||
>>>|x = 10  |
>>>||


Basically you have a Listbox on the left for the prompt and a Text on
the right. Disable the Listbox highlight and key press events and now
we have a very friendly interactive IDLE! No more prompt hijacking
your snippets, and no more eigtht space indention! Hip-Hip-Hooray!


#-- Start Script --#

from Tkinter import *
import tkMessageBox as MB

class CMD(Toplevel):
def __init__(self, master):
Toplevel.__init__(self, master)
self.master = master
self.startidx = '1.0'
self.backidx = '1.0'
self.title('IDLE 3000')

self.listbox = Listbox(self, width=3, relief=FLAT, font=
('Courier New',12), takefocus=0)
self.listbox.pack(fill=Y, side=LEFT)
self.listbox.insert(0, '>>>')

self.text = Text(self, relief=FLAT, spacing3=1, wrap=NONE,
font=('Courier New',12))
self.text.pack(fill=BOTH, side=LEFT, expand=1)
self.text.config(width=50, height=20)
self.text.focus_set()

self.listbox.bind(""  , lambda e: "break")
self.listbox.bind(""  , lambda e: "break")
self.listbox.bind("" , lambda e: "break")
self.listbox.bind(""   , lambda e: "break")
self.listbox.bind("" , lambda e: "break")
self.listbox.bind("", lambda e: "break")

self.text.bind('' , lambda e: "break")#pageup
self.text.bind('', lambda e: "break")#pagedown
self.text.bind(''   , lambda e: "break")
self.text.bind('' , lambda e: "break")
self.text.bind(''  , lambda e: "break")
self.text.bind("", lambda e: "break")
self.text.bind('' , lambda e: "break")
self.text.bind(""   , lambda e: "break")

self.text.bind(""   , self.onUp)
self.text.bind("" , self.onDown)
self.text.bind(""  , self.onTab)
self.text.bind(""   , self.onReturn)
self.text.bind("", self.onBackSpace)

self.protocol("WM_DELETE_WINDOW", self.onQuit)
self.lift(master)
self.master.withdraw()

def fix_index(self, chars):
self.backidx = '%d.0' %(int(self.backidx.split('.')[0])+1)
self.text.insert(END, '\n')
self.text.mark_set(INSERT, END)
self.text.see(INSERT)
self.listbox.insert(END, chars)
self.listbox.see(self.listbox.size())

def onQuit(self):
self.grab_release()
self.master.destroy()

def onTab(self, event=None):
curline, cursor = self.text.index(INSERT).split('.')[0]+'.0',
self.text.index(INSERT)
self.text.insert(INSERT, '')
return "break"

def onDown(self, event):
i = self.text.index(INSERT+'+1l') #;print 'New index: ', i
self.text.mark_set(INSERT, i)
self.text.see(i)
self.listbox.see(int(i.split('.')[0])-1)
return "break"

def onUp(self, event=None):
i = self.text.index(INSERT+'-1l') #;print 'New index: ', i
self.text.mark_set(INSERT, i)
self.text.see(i)
self.listbox.see(int(i.split('.')[0])-1)
return "break"

def onBackSpace(self, event=None):
if self.text.compare(self.text.index(INSERT), '!=',
self.backidx):
self.text.delete(self.text.index(INSERT+'-1c'))
return "break"

def onReturn(self, event=None):
curline, cursor = self.text.index(INSERT).split('.')[0]+'.0',
self.text.index(INSERT)
text = self.text.get(self.startidx, END).strip()
if self.text.compare(curline, '<', self.startidx):#'Out Of
Zone'
self.text.mark_set(INSERT, END+'-1c')
self.text.see(INSERT)
self.listbox.see(END)
elif '.0' in cursor: #nothing typed on this line, try to exec
command
cmd = text.rstrip('\n')
try:
exec(cmd)
except:
self.master.bell()
print '%s\n%s\n%s' %(sys.exc_traceback, sys.exc_type,
sys.exc_value)
finally:

Spam making a comeback??

2009-01-27 Thread r
Seems like the level of spam is increasing in the last week, and today
has been bad. How are the spambytes coming along?
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Re: Drawing and Displaying an Image with PIL

2009-01-27 Thread r
On Jan 27, 9:15 pm, "W. eWatson"  wrote:
> Here's my program:
>
> # fun and games
> import Image, ImageDraw
>
> im = Image.open("wagon.tif") # it exists in the same Win XP
> # folder as the program
> draw = ImageDraw.Draw(im)
> draw.line((0, 0) + im.size, fill=128)
> draw.line((0,0),(20,140), fill=128)
>
> # How show this final image on a display?
>
> root.mainloop()
>
> It has two problems. One is it crashes with:
>      draw.line((0,0),(20,140), fill=128)
> TypeError: line() got multiple values for keyword argument 'fill'
>
> Secondly, it has no way to display the image drawn on. Is it possible, or do
> I have to pass the image off to another module's methods?
>
> --
>                                 W. eWatson
>
>               (121.015 Deg. W, 39.262 Deg. N) GMT-8 hr std. time)
>                Obz Site:  39° 15' 7" N, 121° 2' 32" W, 2700 feet
>
>                      Web Page: 

I have not tried your code but i think you need to put your coodinates
in one tuple. Here is an example from the docs

Example
Example: Draw a Grey Cross Over an Image
import Image, ImageDraw
im = Image.open("lena.pgm")
draw = ImageDraw.Draw(im)
draw.line((0, 0) + im.size, fill=128)
draw.line((0, im.size[1], im.size[0], 0), fill=128)
del draw
# write to stdout
im.save(sys.stdout, "PNG")

Hope that helps
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Re: Drawing and Displaying an Image with PIL

2009-01-27 Thread r
Change this line:
draw.line((0,0),(20,140), fill=128)

To This:
draw.line((0,0, 20,140), fill=128)

And you should be good to go. Like you said, if you need to combine 2
tuples you can do:
(1,2)+(3,4)
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Re: What is intvar? [Python Docs]

2009-01-28 Thread r
On Jan 26, 11:15 am, "W. eWatson"  wrote:
> I might be repeating myself here, but If anyone has pdf experience, and
> could provide page numbers and maybe a TOC for some of Lundh's
> contributions, that would be helpful.

Did you try this one?
http://effbot.org/tkinterbook/tkinter-index.htm

here is the older less detailed version:
http://www.pythonware.com/library/tkinter/introduction/

neither are PDF thought. But NMT has a PDF download here:
http://infohost.nmt.edu/tcc/help/pubs/tkinter/

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Re: Tkinter w.pack()?

2009-01-28 Thread r
On Jan 28, 10:12 pm, "W. eWatson"  wrote:
> Where in the world is a description of pack() for Tkinter widgets? Is it
> some sort of general method for all widgets? I'm looking in a few docs that
> use it without ever saying where it is described. For one,
> . In the NM Tech pdf on Tkinter,
> it's not found anywhere. I see Universal methods for widgets, but no mention
> of pack(). package, packed, but no pack.

did you try here :)
http://effbot.org/tkinterbook/pack.htm
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Re: Tkinter w.pack()?

2009-01-28 Thread r
To expand on this there exists three geometry mangers [grid, pack,
place]. I personally use pack() the most, grid() almost never, and
place -- well never. But each one has it's strengths and weaknesses.

w.grid()
http://effbot.org/tkinterbook/grid.htm

w.place()
http://effbot.org/tkinterbook/place.htm


Everything you need to know about Tkinter exists here:
http://effbot.org/tkinterbook/

and at the NMT site i showed you before
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Re: Tkinter w.pack()?

2009-01-28 Thread r
On Jan 28, 10:57 pm, "W. eWatson"  wrote:
> The word pack doesn't exist on the NMT pdf. Maybe there's a newer one?

Only the grid manager is discussed at NMT. I just like how at NMT the
widget attributes are in a table and then a list the widget methods
follows below that -- much better navigation.

I talked again to John at NMT and he assured me very soon he's going
to make all the updates. It would probably help if you sent him a nice
message of encouragement like -- 'Can you please update the
documentation, i really like the sites layout?' -- but please don't
forget to thank him for all his contributions to the Python community.

I am currently crusading to have all the old Python tuts and
documentation updated(among other crusades). This was my second win
and i hope that more will follow. The python docs out there need a
dusting off and spit shining.
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Re: receive and react to MIDI input

2009-01-29 Thread r
On Jan 29, 1:33 pm, elsjaako  wrote:

There is a Python MIDI module, i think it is pyMIDI, have you checked
it out?
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Does the Python community really follow the philospy of "Community Matters?"

2009-01-29 Thread r
I been around the list for a while and rubbed sholders with some
pythonistas(some you would not beleieve if i told you) and i just
don't see a community spirit here.

Where are the community projects supporting Python? -- besides the
core devlopment. Seem s that nobody is interested unless their pay-pal
account is involved. I find this all quite disappointing.

Also if anyone dares to mention that Python is a great language or
better in this reguard or that, they get jumped and beat to death by
their "so-called" brothers.

AKAIK there is a group for every languge out there. C, Perl, Java,
Ruby, etc, etc. This is comp.lang.python, if you don't like it, hang
out in "comp.lang.whatever". Don't tell me or anybody "Comparing
Python -> Perl is not allowed here!".






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Re: Does the Python community really follow the philospy of "Community Matters?"

2009-01-29 Thread r
On Jan 29, 9:01 pm, alex23  wrote:
> Seriously, how -old- are you? Twelve? Thirteen?

Ah, my good friend alex23.
Somehow -- when i was writing this post -- i knew you would drop in
and i swear i do not have any ESP abilities -- somehow i just knew.

While your here why don't we take a walk down memory lane. Let's go
back to our first encounter -- Yes, that crazy thread(i won't utter
the title here). Seems i was promoting the inclusion of the Python
language in a revolutionary and promising application and you were
very upset about it. Why, i really don't know because you never told
me. The only thing i can remember is you wishing me dead -- if i
recall your wish was to cut off oxygen supply to my brain.

I can't help but wonder of the devious thoughts that toil away in your
demented little mind right now. Of what demise shall i suffer this
time alex23. But please alex, at least -try- to be a little more
creative, if i am to meet my end, i would hate for it to be some worn-
out old cliche'
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Re: search speed

2009-01-29 Thread r
On Jan 29, 5:51 pm, anders  wrote:
> if file.findInFile("LF01"):
> Is there any library like this ??
> Best Regards
> Anders

Yea, it's called a for loop!

for line in file:
if "string" in line:
do_this()
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Re: Does the Python community really follow the philospy of "Community Matters?"

2009-01-29 Thread r
On Jan 29, 6:21 pm, r  wrote:
> Also if anyone dares to mention that Python is a great language or
> better in this reguard or that, they get jumped and beat to death by
> their "so-called" brothers.

This observation leads me to two scientific and common sense synopsis.
Either nobody here gives a rats pa'toote about Python, and/or they are
all just a bunch of gutless worms too afraid to stand up to the 10 or
so Perl/Ruby leeches who's infestation slowly drains the life-blood
out of the Python Community, keeping it too weak to fight back.

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Re: Does the Python community really follow the philospy of "Community Matters?"

2009-01-29 Thread r
On Jan 29, 11:53 pm, James Mills  wrote:
> On Fri, Jan 30, 2009 at 3:38 PM, r  wrote:
> > This observation leads me to two scientific and common sense synopsis.
> > Either nobody here gives a rats pa'toote about Python, and/or they are
> > all just a bunch of gutless worms too afraid to stand up to the 10 or
> > so Perl/Ruby leeches who's infestation slowly drains the life-blood
> > out of the Python Community, keeping it too weak to fight back.
> > 
>
> I for one am not e member of either the Perl or Ruby
> fan club - and I don't think I will ever be :) However I"m not
> going to go and start bagging those languages :) I prefer Python!
>
> I think you'll find a 3rd scenario:
>
> Python developers (those that develop Python)
> and Python programmers (those that use Python)
> just don't really care about politics, protest and
> all the rubbish that goes on in this list :)
>
> cheers
> James

I totally agree James. I not saying anybody should just go around
bashing this or that language, but i have seen many a ruffled feather
at the mere mention of Python's greatness. I could understand if
someone went over to the Perl group and started parroting off "Python
rules!, Perl sucks!". This should be condemned. But i have also seen
at this group very viscous attacks on people who just simply think
Python is a good language and want to tell their Python friends how
happy they are -- myself included.

People would call a happy user of Python a fanboy or a Python zealot.
This blows me away in the context of this group. check out this
thread:
http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.python/browse_thread/thread/d15ed72979ba20f7/6195c98209dcc852?hl=en&lnk=gst&q=python+is+great#6195c98209dcc852

Here a happy python user shared his thoughts on the Python language.
He compared Python as "more readable" than Perl and by god he is right
about that, no sane person can honestly deny this fact. But like
always some angry responses and warnings followed that this person
should not criticize Perl, and veil threats were cast.

This is the madness i refer too.
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Re: Does the Python community really follow the philospy of "Community Matters?"

2009-01-30 Thread r
On Jan 30, 2:26 am, John Machin  wrote:
[snip]
> This doesn't appear to match the description. Perhaps the PSU has
> subverted my comp)(*&^...@!
> NO CARRIER

Oops -- Good catch John,
Even perfect people like myself make mistakes :). Here is the
aforementioned thread where a Python user was chastised for daring to
say Python has a clearer syntax than Perl thereby easing
maintainability: OH NO! *big hand wave*
http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.python/browse_thread/thread/b1214df115ac01ce/c7cfe1fa9634cc2a?hl=en&lnk=gst&q=perl+bashing#c7cfe1fa9634cc2a

These Perl mongers have no business doing their mongling here, go to
c.l.Perl!
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Re: Does the Python community really follow the philospy of "Community Matters?"

2009-01-31 Thread r
On Jan 30, 4:36 pm, Steve Holden  wrote:
[snip]
> It's mostly a matter of teaching by example. I'd like to think I usually
> set a good example, but I've certainly been known to get crabby from time
> to time

Steve you are defiantly the better of two evils around here :D
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Re: receive and react to MIDI input

2009-01-31 Thread r
Sorry i gave you the wrong module, try PMIDI for python 2.5
(win32.exe):
http://sourceforge.net/project/showfiles.php?group_id=65529&package_id=106729

Also try this page near the bottom under "MIDI Mania" for more
http://wiki.python.org/moin/PythonInMusic
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Re: Does the Python community really follow the philospy of "Community Matters?"

2009-01-31 Thread r
On Jan 31, 7:24 pm, John Machin  wrote:
> A most munificent malapropism! Sherman's goat must be serene with
> entropy!!

Who say's George Bush did't have anything to offer :). He was the
decider after all.
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Re: Embedding numpy works once, but not twice??

2009-01-31 Thread r
> Embedding numpy works once, but not twice??

That's what she said!
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Re: what IDE is the best to write python?

2009-02-01 Thread r
On Feb 1, 1:42 am, "mcheun...@hotmail.com" 
wrote:
> Hi all
>    what IDE is the best to write python?

That's like asking boxers or briefs, everybody thinks their choice is
the best. I like freedom if that gives you a hint. :)
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Re: getting values from a text file (newby)

2009-02-01 Thread r

Try the csv module

py> import csv
py> reader = csv.reader(open(csvfile, "rb"))
py> for row in reader:
print row


['1', 'house', '2,5 ']
['2', 'table', '6,7 ']
['3', 'chair', '-4,5 ']
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Re: getting values from a text file (newby)

2009-02-01 Thread r
On Feb 1, 11:50 am, Steve Holden  wrote:
> And then, to conert the last field to numbers? ...

Are you asking me Steve? Well i did not want to short-circuit the OP's
learning process by spoon-feeding him the entire answer. I thought i
would give him a push in the right direction and observe the outcome.

A very intelligent professor once said:
""" It's not about giving a student all the info, only just enough to
spark their own thought process."""


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Re: Best 3d graphics kit for CAD program???

2009-02-09 Thread r
On Feb 9, 1:33 pm, Stef Mientki  wrote:

> Maya ?
> Blender ?

> I forgot:
> pySoy
> Intensity

Thanks Stef,
I actually got OpenGL to install(finally) and now i am thinking ?
maybe? i should just go with OpenGL using the wxglcanvas. I have been
also "messing" around with Bender but i think i want a stand alone
application here. I don't know anything about Maya however?

Thanks for the info and feel free to offer more.
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Re: Best 3d graphics kit for CAD program???

2009-02-09 Thread r
OpenCascade looks promising. I had look at this before a while back
and forgot about it. For now i am taking the OpenGL plunge and I will
see where that takes me...?

Thanks Duane
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Re: Using TK and the canvas.

2009-02-10 Thread r
On Feb 10, 1:27 pm, Kalibr  wrote:
[snip]
> Now I know all I have to do is set the SkillInfos parent to a canvas,
> but how would I arrange and draw the lines? Thanks all :)

You should really check out wxPython, there is support for just this
type of thing. of course you could do this with Tkinter, but just
thinking about it makes my head hurt :).
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Re: Thank you, Tkinter. (easy to use)

2009-02-11 Thread r
Hello,

Tkinter is a great GUI toolkit, for what it lacks in prettiness it
more than makes up for in simple and quick GUI building. I think this
is the main reason Tkinter continues to be Python's built-in GUI
toolkit. It is a great place to start for those with no GUI
experience. Sure it will never be as rich as wxPython or the like, but
that is not what Tkinter is made for.

I use Tkinter for all my tools that need a UI, and others as well. The
only complaint i have is the poor support for image types i really
wish there where at least support for one good image like jpg, png,
and full color bitmaps.The canvas widget could also use a little more
functionality, but hey maybe one day i will have time to polish it up
a bit.
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Re: A little bit else I would like to discuss

2009-02-12 Thread r
On Feb 12, 2:04 pm, azrael  wrote:
> Sometimes I really get confused when looking out for a modul for some
> kind of need. Sometimes I get frightened when I get the resaults. 8
> wraper for this, 7 wrapers for that, 10 modules for anything. Between
> them are maybe some kind of small differences, but to work with any of
> the modules, I have to spend 10 hours of reading the help, If there is
> any at all.

I don't follow you here??

> I think that there should be a list on python.org of supported or
> sugested modules for some need. For example Database access. Or GUI
> Building. It is a complete pain in the ass. Let's face the true, TK is
> out of date. There should be another one used and appended to the
> standard Python Library. One that plays well with other platforms. And
> if it does't, let's make it play better.

There is a list of third party modules on the Python.org site and it
is huge! Tk is very simple i agree, but i would hate to double the
size of my python installer download just to have this or that module
built-in. Trust me you really don't want that. But i will agree a
better classification of modules would be nice

> Why will Microsoft's products kick the ass of open source. Because
> anyone does what he wants. Let's say There are 5 GUI libraries
> competing against each other. Think about it what could these 5 teams
> acomplish if they would work together. Or maybe a framework for RAD
> GUI devbelopment. after 10 years of python, there is still not one
> application for GUI Building that can beat Visual Studio.
>
> Anyone I talk to says: "Oh my god, Python and GUI"

I will agree with you here. Just think what could be accomplished if
all the linux distro developers could band together to create one
golden linux distro. This level of collaboration would create a distro
so powerful the vibrations of it will cause Bill Gates house to slide
into lake Washington :).

Tk could use a polishing i much agree and so could IDLE. Maybe we
should start a revolution here? i am game!

> There are a dozen of modules that should be, if you ask me, be
> implemented into Python. Like NumPy, SciPY, PIL. A lot of people I
> talk to, are using them. But everyone has to download them manually
> and hope that if someone is using their code, has also installed the
> needed modules.

Again i very much disagree here. We don't want to make Python a piece
of elephant-size MS bloatware. Not everybody needs or wants all these
libraries and maintaining this extra code-base puts exrta strain on
the Python dev team. We need them to concentrate on other more
important issues.

> My solution would be:
> Let's make an announcement on Python.org. something like this.
>
> We need Ideas for creating the a standard library in Python for Image
> processing. Tell  us your problem. What do you think which feature
> should be implemented. Which transformation, which algorithm.
> Make a vote. This should be that not.

There is a library PIL but it could use some updating too.

> But how to start something like that. Anyone that sees a problem that
> should be solved, becomes the project leader. Find the best Ideas and
> make a good library.

Motivation is hard to find, and it's more than that. People have to
make a living, but we never know until we try. I am with you! Lest
revolutionize Python!

> It's is very good that people have a choice. But why not make some
> standards. I know that there is already a standard python library, But
> why not extending it. classify the standard library into subcategories
> like Networking, DataBase, Computation, ..

Bloated_python == dead_Python

> One other thing. I am not looking for war on groups. I just would like
> to discuss some things that drive me crazy while using Python.
>
> This group has a lot of members. not to mention every Python Forum.
> Why not using this number of people and accomplish something great. If
> anyone of us would write 10 line of good code, it would result a very
> great and powerfull environment.

I agree, anybody else out there want to add to this converstation?

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Re: ANN: SuPy - Script Sketchup with Python

2009-02-14 Thread r
Great work Greg, you are a Python zen master!
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Re: Python 3D CAD -- need collaborators, or just brave souls :)

2009-02-18 Thread r
Hello Josh,
Blender is a lost cause. It is a powerful app but the UI is horrible.
Even the Blender folks admit only a complete rewrite could solve the
major flaws that plague the design. So maybe i could salvage some code
but for what i have in mind, Blender will look like a piece of
software from the middle ages. And i am absolutly only looking to do
this in 3D, 2D is boring.

So, yes, i have looked at both the applications you offer.

Thanks
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Re: Python 3D CAD -- need collaborators, or just brave souls :)

2009-02-18 Thread r
Yes i want linux, windows, and mac support. I think you are good for a
few years though :). Getting something up and working is the easy
part. Adding all the features that are required to compete with
something the likes of SolidWorks or ACAD  takes time.

One way or another i am going to build this, whether or not it takes
off and gets to a professional level -- only time will tell. I know
one thing for sure the need is there, the product is not.
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Re: Python 3D CAD -- need collaborators, or just brave souls :)

2009-02-19 Thread r
On Feb 19, 2:29 am, Lie  wrote:
> On Feb 18, 8:02 pm, r  wrote:
> Blender's UI is designed for effective and efficient 3D workflow, not
> for low learning curve.

And that will be it's downfall!

I know what what Blenders UI is designed for. However not too many
people get religious about learning a UI, which is the only way you
will ever learn Blenders UI. This is why although Blender has a cult
following, it will never grow into a tool that the mainstream world
knows about, or for that matter cares about.

I have been using Blender on and off for almost a year and i still
cannot get comfortable with the UI. For instance adding a material to
a object involves multiple steps between multiple windows (WHAT!). Go
take a look at SketchUp's UI and you will see how the future will
look. Even 3DS or Maya is easier to learn that Blender.




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build minimal python 2.6 on linux

2008-11-22 Thread r
I would like to install minimal version if python 2.6 on a linux laptop
(and no there is not one already installed...i checked)
i have no way to access the net with the laptop.
So basicly i down loaded the 2.6 source and unpacked it on my other
PC.
The files weigh in at 51MB and some change.
Since transfer from USB on the laptop is painfully slow, and the cdrom
is toast, i need to slim down the 2.6 source as much as possible, so
it doesn't take 2 days to copy, and besides i don't need all this crap
anyway.

I know right away i can lose:
-Demo
-Doc
-Mac
-IDLE
-PC...???
-PCbuild...???

What else can i dump to slim down to just python-Tkinter only
note: i DO want to keep all the built-in modules.

And i know this may be asking alot but:
where do i put the files before i run "./configure"
does it matter what directory there in??
any help here would be great since i am new to linux
and have never built a python installation.
Gracias amigos!



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Re: Quick question about None and comparisons

2008-11-24 Thread r
On Nov 24, 7:52 pm, "Giampaolo Rodola'" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Sorry for the title but I didn't find anything more appropriate.
> To have a less verbose code would it be ok doing:
>
> if a > b:
>
> ...instead of:
>
> if a is not None and a > b:
>
> ...?
> Is there any hidden complication behind that?
> Thanks in advance
>
> --- Giampaolo
> code.google.com/p/pyftpdlib/

you are doing 2 different things there
the first only ask "IS a greater than b?"
the second ask "IF a IS NOT none and a IS greater than b"
one is not shorthand for the other in all circumstances!

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Re: confused about classes and tkinter object design

2008-11-25 Thread r
On Nov 25, 10:38 am, marc wyburn <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I've created my first Tkinter GUI class which consists of some buttons
> that trigger functions.  I have also created a
> tkFileDialog.askdirectory control to local a root folder for log
> files.
>
> I have several file paths that depend on the value of
> tkFileDialog.askdirectory should I create an object that inherits this
> value or can I point functions at the GUI class?
>
> I am creating the tkinter GUI instance using;
>
> if __name__ == "__main__":
>     GUI = AuditorGUI()
>     GUI.mainloop()
>
> class AuditorGUI(Frame):
>     def __init__(self):
>         Frame.__init__(self)
>         self.pack(expand = YES, fill = BOTH)
>
> ##      Create GUI objects
>
>         self.currentdir = StringVar()
>         self.currentdir.set(os.getcwd())
>
>         self.logdir = Button(self, text="Choose Data
> directory",command=self.choose_dir)
>         self.logdir.grid(row=1,column=0,sticky='nsew',pady=20,padx=20)
>
>         self.labeldirpath = Label(self, textvariable=self.currentdir)
>
>     def choose_dir(self):
>         dirname = tkFileDialog.askdirectory
> (parent=self,initialdir=self.currentdir.get(),title='Please select a
> directory')
>         if len(dirname ) > 0:
>             self.currentdir.set(dirname)
>
> I think I have created an instance of the AuditorGUI class called GUI
> so should be able to access the path using GUI.currentdir but this
> doesn't work.
>
> I'm still struggling with classes so not sure whether my problem is
> tkinter related or not.
>
> Thanks, MW

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Re: confused about classes and tkinter object design

2008-11-25 Thread r
On Nov 25, 10:38 am, marc wyburn <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I've created my first Tkinter GUI class which consists of some buttons
> that trigger functions.  I have also created a
> tkFileDialog.askdirectory control to local a root folder for log
> files.
>
> I have several file paths that depend on the value of
> tkFileDialog.askdirectory should I create an object that inherits this
> value or can I point functions at the GUI class?
>
> I am creating the tkinter GUI instance using;
>
> if __name__ == "__main__":
>     GUI = AuditorGUI()
>     GUI.mainloop()
>
> class AuditorGUI(Frame):
>     def __init__(self):
>         Frame.__init__(self)
>         self.pack(expand = YES, fill = BOTH)
>
> ##      Create GUI objects
>
>         self.currentdir = StringVar()
>         self.currentdir.set(os.getcwd())
>
>         self.logdir = Button(self, text="Choose Data
> directory",command=self.choose_dir)
>         self.logdir.grid(row=1,column=0,sticky='nsew',pady=20,padx=20)
>
>         self.labeldirpath = Label(self, textvariable=self.currentdir)
>
>     def choose_dir(self):
>         dirname = tkFileDialog.askdirectory
> (parent=self,initialdir=self.currentdir.get(),title='Please select a
> directory')
>         if len(dirname ) > 0:
>             self.currentdir.set(dirname)
>
> I think I have created an instance of the AuditorGUI class called GUI
> so should be able to access the path using GUI.currentdir but this
> doesn't work.
>
> I'm still struggling with classes so not sure whether my problem is
> tkinter related or not.
>
> Thanks, MW

first off i would use a different instance variable besides "GUI".
Could be AG or auditorgui.
Also the conditional "if len(dirname ) > 0:" could simply be "if
dirname:"
When you ask for the attribute currentdir are you asking as
"GUI.currentdir.get()" or "GUI.currentdir"???
only the second will work with a TKVAR, but there is really no need to
use a TKVAR here. I would simply do:

self.currentdir = None

then you could say:
if GUI.currentdir:
do this()



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Re: Reg Expression - Get position of >

2008-11-25 Thread r
On Nov 25, 10:36 am, M_H <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Hey,
>
> I need the position of the last char >
>
> Let's say I have a string
> mystr =  

Re: confused about classes and tkinter object design

2008-11-25 Thread r
On Nov 25, 2:31 pm, r <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> On Nov 25, 10:38 am, marc wyburn <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>
>
> > Hi,
>
> > I've created my first Tkinter GUI class which consists of some buttons
> > that trigger functions.  I have also created a
> > tkFileDialog.askdirectory control to local a root folder for log
> > files.
>
> > I have several file paths that depend on the value of
> > tkFileDialog.askdirectory should I create an object that inherits this
> > value or can I point functions at the GUI class?
>
> > I am creating the tkinter GUI instance using;
>
> > if __name__ == "__main__":
> >     GUI = AuditorGUI()
> >     GUI.mainloop()
>
> > class AuditorGUI(Frame):
> >     def __init__(self):
> >         Frame.__init__(self)
> >         self.pack(expand = YES, fill = BOTH)
>
> > ##      Create GUI objects
>
> >         self.currentdir = StringVar()
> >         self.currentdir.set(os.getcwd())
>
> >         self.logdir = Button(self, text="Choose Data
> > directory",command=self.choose_dir)
> >         self.logdir.grid(row=1,column=0,sticky='nsew',pady=20,padx=20)
>
> >         self.labeldirpath = Label(self, textvariable=self.currentdir)
>
> >     def choose_dir(self):
> >         dirname = tkFileDialog.askdirectory
> > (parent=self,initialdir=self.currentdir.get(),title='Please select a
> > directory')
> >         if len(dirname ) > 0:
> >             self.currentdir.set(dirname)
>
> > I think I have created an instance of the AuditorGUI class called GUI
> > so should be able to access the path using GUI.currentdir but this
> > doesn't work.
>
> > I'm still struggling with classes so not sure whether my problem is
> > tkinter related or not.
>
> > Thanks, MW
>
> first off i would use a different instance variable besides "GUI".
> Could be AG or auditorgui.
> Also the conditional "if len(dirname ) > 0:" could simply be "if
> dirname:"
> When you ask for the attribute currentdir are you asking as
> "GUI.currentdir.get()" or "GUI.currentdir"???
> only the second will work with a TKVAR, but there is really no need to
> use a TKVAR here. I would simply do:
>
> self.currentdir = None
>
> then you could say:
> if GUI.currentdir:
>     do this()

> When you ask for the attribute currentdir are you asking as
> "GUI.currentdir.get()" or "GUI.currentdir"???
> only the second will work with a TKVAR

correction:
only GUI.currentdir.get() will work with TKVAR
my bad:(
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Re: Reg Expression - Get position of >

2008-11-25 Thread r
On Nov 25, 4:33 pm, Jorgen Grahn <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> On Tue, 25 Nov 2008 12:41:53 -0800 (PST), r <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > On Nov 25, 10:36 am, M_H <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >> Hey,
>
> >> I need the position of the last char >
>
> >> Let's say I have a string
> >> mystr =  

Re: help with class

2008-11-26 Thread r
On Nov 26, 4:08 pm, Arnaud Delobelle <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> tekion <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> > Hello,
> > I am playing with class.  Below is the code snippet:
> > #!/usr/bin/python
> >       2
> >       3 class test_class:
> >       4    #import gzip
> >       5    def __init__(self,file):
> >       6       self.file = file
> >       7    def open_file(self):
> >       8       try:
> >       9          print "file: %s" % self.file
> >      10          self.xml_file = gzip.GzipFile(self.file,'r')
> >      11       except:
> >      12          print "an exception has occured"
> >      13       for line in self.xml_file:
> >      14          print "line: %s" % line
> >      15       self.xml_file.close()
> >      16
> >      17
> >      18 if __name__ == '__main__':
> >      19    import gzip
> >      20    import sys
> >      21    t = test_class( sys.argv[1] )
> >      22    t.open_file()
>
> > My question are:
> > 1.  Why do I need to use "import gzip" on main section to get it the
> > script to work?  I would assume you need the import of gzip in the
> > class section.
>
> This is how Python works.  Here is the relevant extract from the
> Reference Manual:
>
>     A scope defines the visibility of a name within a block. If a local
>     variable is defined in a block, its scope includes that block. If
>     the definition occurs in a function block, the scope extends to any
>     blocks contained within the defining one, unless a contained block
>     introduces a different binding for the name. The scope of names
>     defined in a class block is limited to the class block; it does not
>     extend to the code blocks of methods – this includes generator
>     expressions since they are implemented using a function scope.
>
> (Quoted fromhttp://docs.python.org/reference/executionmodel.html)
>
> > 2.  What is the proper way of using module in a class you are creating?
>
> import it into the global namespace of the module in which you are
> defining your class.
>
> --
> Arnaud

That's funny...this same question was asked at 11:30 this morning

see thread:
http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.python/browse_thread/thread/a42bf1e9504c3c3f?hl=en#
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Re: hello from colombia

2008-11-26 Thread r
On Nov 26, 2:58 pm, fel <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I work in a small software company using php all day, I wish the usage
> of Python was more common within my company
> they are starting a new project (insurance stuff) using Java, and I
> just hate that eventually I'l be debugging someone-else's java code
> how can I convince them that Python is better, and get them to re-
> think their strategy?
>
> also, kuddos on the language, you serve mankind as few do.
>
> fel.

Just show them a side by side comparison of Python and Java, the
choice will be obvious! ;)
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Re: iterating over a variable which could be None, a single object, or a list

2008-11-27 Thread r
On Nov 27, 8:57 am, Roy Smith <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
>  "adam carr" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> > I call a function get_items() which returns a list of items.
> > However, in some cases, it returns just one item.
> > It returns the item as an object though, not as a list containing one 
> > object.
> > In other cases it simply returns None.
>
> Almost certainly what you need to do is change the function to always
> return a list.  Might be a list of one object.  Might be an empty list.  
> But always a list.  Keep the interface simple and obvious and you avoid
> complexities such as the one you're facing now.

see this wiki for better understanding of Roy's suggestion...words to
live by my friend  =D
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/KISS_principle

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HELP!...Google SketchUp needs a Python API

2008-11-27 Thread r
Hello fellow Python Advocates!
Help me promote Python to a larger audience.

An introduction to SketchUp:

I don't know if you are familiar with "Google Sketchup". It is the
best 3d CAM program available.
If you have not checked it out and do modeling of any kind, or want to
learn modeling, you need to see it right away. SketchUp offers a
simple and intuitive interface for drawing 3D models. Very powerful,
and Very simple. Now before you say "Blender has a Python API", your
right, but Blender and SketchUp are like two sides of the "modeling
mountain". There are things you can do in 5 minutes with SketchUP that
would take hours with Blender, and vice versa. SketchUp is more
archtecural based.

Google provides both a FREE and PRO version of the application. Now,
although most free versions of a software are cut down so much that
they are little more than toys...this is not the case with
SketchUp!...You can do almost everything in the free version as in the
pro...including scripting! Unfortunatly though SketchUp currently uses
Ruby(sorry to use profanity) language for scripting on both the free
and pro versions. IMHO...and you will probably agree... programming
with Ruby is neither fun or efficient. Don't get me wrong i am not
knocking Ruby. But i have tried to learn Rudy and i all i get is a
headache...C in my opinion is much easier than Ruby(but this may just
be me). So basically SketchUp is intended for beginners as well as
pros. And inline with SketchUp's philosophy I believe Python will make
the application more intuitive and more fun. Creating less overhead to
learn the API and at the same time expose new people to the greatness
of Python!

This is the slogan i took from there website:
===
"We designed SketchUp's simplified toolset, guided drawing system and
clean look-and-feel to help you concentrate on two things: getting
your work done as efficiently as possible, and having fun while you're
doing it."

Which is 100% correct, but the sort-coming here is the API. I really
think it would be in Google interest to include Python as a scripting
language. And before you say..."scripting is not THAT important" i
say wrong, without the scripting API more advanced "modeler" types
like myself would not be as interested in SketchUP.

Why Python? you ask. Well Python has more docs, tutorials, and info
than Ruby, Python has a MUCH clearer syntax, and Python is easy to
learn for n00bs...or anybody. And Python promotes a better coding
style than Ruby. I have looked over many Ruby scripts and they are
just a mess. Since Ruby does not enforce ellipsis for a method call,
parsing code with your eyes can be very frustrating. Also Ruby offers
too many ways to do one thing, alowing two scripts that do the exact
same thing to look completely different. Some of the things I like
more about python:

-I think classes are much easier to write and understand. Python
keywords are a no brainer! When i first studied python the keywords
stuck in my head right away! No need to go back to the docs to refresh
my memory.
-print instead of puts
-input instead of gets
-elif instead of elsif
-None instead of nil --WTH is nil anyway?
-list comprehensions: [x for x in range(100) if x % 2 == 0]
even a n00b can see what that is doing .
-The dict and list objects could not be easier to use. And the
similarity for accessing list indexes, string indexes, and dict could
not be easier to remember.

Also something i find completely frustrating about Ruby is the end
statement, Why in the world, do we need such things in a high level
language? High level languages are suppost to take the burden off the
developer and put it on the machine(where it belongs). Python uses
indentation instead of the "end" keyword to denote a block. Which has
the effect of creating a good coding style from day one, and also
makes for easy reading of source code, something very important to a
n00b (i know i am preaching to the choir here;)

Credit where credit is do:
==
You know, Guidio van Rossum really nailed it when he created this
language. He took the best of everything he saw that was good and left
out everything he saw was bad (i think only one other entity has done
his before long ago...see Book of Genesis ;)

Now if we could get Python into SketchUp this would be a win for
SketchUp, AND for Python.
Python would get more exposure, and SketchUP would be easier to use,
sticking to there policy above. And when people have a choice between
Python and Ruby... you and I both know who will win that
competition ;-).

Now before you say..."don't tell us, tell the SketchUp DEV TEAM". I
have hinted at adding Python as a second scripting API, but what needs
to happen is to get a list together of people that use SketchUp or
people who want use SketchUp, or people who just think it is a damn
good idea and submit it to the DEV TEAM.

Look forward to hearing from you! I am open to any suggestions good or
bad.
Thanks

Re: HELP!...Google SketchUp needs a Python API

2008-11-27 Thread r
On Nov 27, 5:27 pm, "Chris Rebert" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> On Thu, Nov 27, 2008 at 3:18 PM, r <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > Hello fellow Python Advocates!
> > Help me promote Python to a larger audience.
>
> > An introduction to SketchUp:
> > 
> > I don't know if you are familiar with "Google Sketchup". It is the
> > best 3d CAM program available.
>   
>
> > Credit where credit is do:
> > ==
> > You know, Guidio van Rossum really nailed it when he created this
> > language. He took the best of everything he saw that was good and left
> > out everything he saw was bad (i think only one other entity has done
> > his before long ago...see Book of Genesis ;)
>
> > Now if we could get Python into SketchUp this would be a win for
> > SketchUp, AND for Python.
> > Python would get more exposure, and SketchUP would be easier to use,
> > sticking to there policy above. And when people have a choice between
> > Python and Ruby... you and I both know who will win that
> > competition ;-).
>
> > Now before you say..."don't tell us, tell the SketchUp DEV TEAM". I
> > have hinted at adding Python as a second scripting API, but what needs
> > to happen is to get a list together of people that use SketchUp or
> > people who want use SketchUp, or people who just think it is a damn
> > good idea and submit it to the DEV TEAM.
>
> > Look forward to hearing from you! I am open to any suggestions good or
> > bad.
>
> I don't really give a care about SketchUp, but just FYI, you are aware
> that Guido van Rossum and some other prominent Pythonistas are
> currently employed by Google, right?
>
> Cheers,
> Chris
> --
> Follow the path of the Iguana...http://rebertia.com
>
> > Thanks
> > --
> >http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list

Of course, but you are not suggesting that i bother Guido with this. I
am sure he is too busy.
--
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list


Re: HELP!...Google SketchUp needs a Python API

2008-11-27 Thread r
On Nov 27, 5:38 pm, "Chris Rebert" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> On Thu, Nov 27, 2008 at 3:33 PM, r <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > On Nov 27, 5:27 pm, "Chris Rebert" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >> On Thu, Nov 27, 2008 at 3:18 PM, r <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >> > Hello fellow Python Advocates!
> >> > Help me promote Python to a larger audience.
>
> >> > An introduction to SketchUp:
> >> > 
> >> > I don't know if you are familiar with "Google Sketchup". It is the
> >> > best 3d CAM program available.
> >>   
>
> >> > Credit where credit is do:
> >> > ==
> >> > You know, Guidio van Rossum really nailed it when he created this
> >> > language. He took the best of everything he saw that was good and left
> >> > out everything he saw was bad (i think only one other entity has done
> >> > his before long ago...see Book of Genesis ;)
>
> >> > Now if we could get Python into SketchUp this would be a win for
> >> > SketchUp, AND for Python.
> >> > Python would get more exposure, and SketchUP would be easier to use,
> >> > sticking to there policy above. And when people have a choice between
> >> > Python and Ruby... you and I both know who will win that
> >> > competition ;-).
>
> >> > Now before you say..."don't tell us, tell the SketchUp DEV TEAM". I
> >> > have hinted at adding Python as a second scripting API, but what needs
> >> > to happen is to get a list together of people that use SketchUp or
> >> > people who want use SketchUp, or people who just think it is a damn
> >> > good idea and submit it to the DEV TEAM.
>
> >> > Look forward to hearing from you! I am open to any suggestions good or
> >> > bad.
>
> >> I don't really give a care about SketchUp, but just FYI, you are aware
> >> that Guido van Rossum and some other prominent Pythonistas are
> >> currently employed by Google, right?
>
> >> Cheers,
> >> Chris
> >> --
> >> Follow the path of the Iguana...http://rebertia.com
>
> >> > Thanks
> >> > --
> >> >http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>
> > Of course, but you are not suggesting that i bother Guido with this. I
> > am sure he is too busy.
>
> No, obviously that was not my implication.
> - Chris
>
> --
> Follow the path of the Iguana...http://rebertia.com

Are you against promoting python?
--
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list


Re: HELP!...Google SketchUp needs a Python API

2008-11-27 Thread r
On Nov 27, 5:42 pm, r <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> On Nov 27, 5:38 pm, "Chris Rebert" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>
>
> > On Thu, Nov 27, 2008 at 3:33 PM, r <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > > On Nov 27, 5:27 pm, "Chris Rebert" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > >> On Thu, Nov 27, 2008 at 3:18 PM, r <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > >> > Hello fellow Python Advocates!
> > >> > Help me promote Python to a larger audience.
>
> > >> > An introduction to SketchUp:
> > >> > 
> > >> > I don't know if you are familiar with "Google Sketchup". It is the
> > >> > best 3d CAM program available.
> > >>   
>
> > >> > Credit where credit is do:
> > >> > ==
> > >> > You know, Guidio van Rossum really nailed it when he created this
> > >> > language. He took the best of everything he saw that was good and left
> > >> > out everything he saw was bad (i think only one other entity has done
> > >> > his before long ago...see Book of Genesis ;)
>
> > >> > Now if we could get Python into SketchUp this would be a win for
> > >> > SketchUp, AND for Python.
> > >> > Python would get more exposure, and SketchUP would be easier to use,
> > >> > sticking to there policy above. And when people have a choice between
> > >> > Python and Ruby... you and I both know who will win that
> > >> > competition ;-).
>
> > >> > Now before you say..."don't tell us, tell the SketchUp DEV TEAM". I
> > >> > have hinted at adding Python as a second scripting API, but what needs
> > >> > to happen is to get a list together of people that use SketchUp or
> > >> > people who want use SketchUp, or people who just think it is a damn
> > >> > good idea and submit it to the DEV TEAM.
>
> > >> > Look forward to hearing from you! I am open to any suggestions good or
> > >> > bad.
>
> > >> I don't really give a care about SketchUp, but just FYI, you are aware
> > >> that Guido van Rossum and some other prominent Pythonistas are
> > >> currently employed by Google, right?
>
> > >> Cheers,
> > >> Chris
> > >> --
> > >> Follow the path of the Iguana...http://rebertia.com
>
> > >> > Thanks
> > >> > --
> > >> >http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>
> > > Of course, but you are not suggesting that i bother Guido with this. I
> > > am sure he is too busy.
>
> > No, obviously that was not my implication.
> > - Chris
>
> > --
> > Follow the path of the Iguana...http://rebertia.com
>
> Are you against promoting python?

To merely say... "Well Guido and some high level Python people work at
Google and if Python is not in SketchUp now it will never be"... is
pretty self defeating to me. Weather you like SketchUp or not doesn't
matter. This is a call for a grass roots movement to further the
incorporation of Python into a popular and useful app. I'm not asking
for people to support SketchUp here...I am asking people to support
Python. Of all Places in the world, there should be  support here. I
hope at least you care about Python.

Sure this may blow under the rug but hey...doesn't hurt to try. My
call was a "testing the waters" to see if there if fact are any Python-
SketchUp fans here. Maybe your a Ruby fan, i don't know, but that
would explain your quick disposal of the idea though.
-food for thought-
--
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list


Re: HELP!...Google SketchUp needs a Python API

2008-11-27 Thread r
On Nov 27, 6:15 pm, Terry Reedy <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> r wrote:
> > Hello fellow Python Advocates!
> > Help me promote Python to a larger audience.
>
> > An introduction to SketchUp:
> > 
>
> There is no need to puff up Python or put down Ruby to this audience.
> Given how much Google uses Python as a core language, I am a bit shocked
> that they would release a program with Ruby and not Python bindings
> also.  Must be an isolated dev group.
thanks Terry,
I lament every day about it! :^)
If you read the complete post though you will see that i am not trying
to dog Ruby, only trying to say that Python is nicer to a n00b (IMHO).
And by doing so, allows a new user to do more advanced things quickly,
increasing usability of the application.
--
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list


Re: HELP!...Google SketchUp needs a Python API

2008-11-27 Thread r
On Nov 27, 7:13 pm, alex23 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> On Nov 28, 10:09 am, r <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> > Are you against promoting python?
>
> > Maybe your a Ruby fan, i don't know, but that
> > would explain your quick disposal of the idea though.
>
> Are you intending to come off so patronising? To angrily dismiss
> someone who has been posting some solid help in this group for the
> past three months doesn't do your position any favours. There's
> advocacy and then there's rabid fanboyism
>
> > -food for thought-
>
> Here's something a little more substantial for you to consider: put up
> or shut up. Create a thin layer that brokers Python requests through
> to the Ruby interface for SketchUp. Gain support for this approach.
> Prove how many people are interested in using the Python aspect. Show
> you're not expecting someone else to bear all the effort. Do something
> more constructive than post wishful fantasies and snide cutdowns to a
> mailing list.
>
> Stop proclaiming how great Python is and start developing solutions
> that demonstrate it.
Thanks alex23 for you honest response,
Although i am no Pythonista by FAR, i will give my all to help this
idea come to be. I am not just posting ideas and expecting everyone
else pull the load. That being said, there is no way I could do this
on my own. I would need the help of smarter people than myself. Yes i
totally agree, this idea is hugely ambitious to say the least! All i
can say is no tree can bear fruit without first planting the seed. I
must be honest, i was not expecting this much resisstance to my idea,
but i did say that i welcomed all input. I did fail to mention in my
OP that this was a "testing of the waters", to see if anyone out there
shared the same feelings.
Thanks again.
--
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list


Re: HELP!...Google SketchUp needs a Python API

2008-11-27 Thread r
On Nov 27, 7:40 pm, Terry Reedy <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> r wrote:
> > On Nov 27, 6:15 pm, Terry Reedy <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >> r wrote:
> >>> Hello fellow Python Advocates!
> >>> Help me promote Python to a larger audience.
> >>> An introduction to SketchUp:
> >>> 
> >> There is no need to puff up Python or put down Ruby to this audience.
> >> Given how much Google uses Python as a core language, I am a bit shocked
> >> that they would release a program with Ruby and not Python bindings
> >> also.  Must be an isolated dev group.
> > thanks Terry,
> > If you read the complete post though
>
> I did
>
> > you will see that i am not trying to dog Ruby,
>
> You fooled me.  But rather than discuss what you did write, here is what
> I think you should have written that would be more effective.
>
> -
> Google has released a program SketchUp in both free and pro editions.
> It does ... and I think it is great.  It nicely complements Blender, for
> instance.  see
> sketchup.google.com 
>
> For me, however, it has one problem; the only scripting language now is
> Ruby and I would far prefer to sript it in Python.  Are there any Python
> and Sketchup user who agree and who would help me persuade the sketchup
> developers to add Python?  Does anyone have any persuasive arguments to
> suggest?
> 
> Short and to the point.
Thanks again Terry,
I will apologize for being too wordy, and my unintentional rough-ness
towards Ruby. Again i stress the fact that i am in no way dogging
Ruby. I am sure there are many places where Ruby out performs Python.
But IMHO i really believe that Python is easier to learn than Ruby(for
non-programmers). I quickly picked up on python and even C, but Ruby
still turns me off. (did i mention Ruby was the first language i
tried!) This is not ruby's fault, ruby may be geared more to a
proffessional programmer, which i am not. I just see that python is
perfect for scripting applications(from my point of veiw). I just
simply want to introduce others to the joy i get from using python.
And since SketchUp is for modelers NOT programmers, this may be just
what they need.
Thanks i respect everyones opinion here. Even Chris's opinion!
--
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list


Re: HELP!...Google SketchUp needs a Python API

2008-11-27 Thread r
On Nov 27, 8:01 pm, r <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> On Nov 27, 7:40 pm, Terry Reedy <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> > r wrote:
> > > On Nov 27, 6:15 pm, Terry Reedy <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > >> r wrote:
> > >>> Hello fellow Python Advocates!
> > >>> Help me promote Python to a larger audience.
> > >>> An introduction to SketchUp:
> > >>> 
> > >> There is no need to puff up Python or put down Ruby to this audience.
> > >> Given how much Google uses Python as a core language, I am a bit shocked
> > >> that they would release a program with Ruby and not Python bindings
> > >> also.  Must be an isolated dev group.
> > > thanks Terry,
> > > If you read the complete post though
>
> > I did
>
> > > you will see that i am not trying to dog Ruby,
>
> > You fooled me.  But rather than discuss what you did write, here is what
> > I think you should have written that would be more effective.
>
> > -
> > Google has released a program SketchUp in both free and pro editions.
> > It does ... and I think it is great.  It nicely complements Blender, for
> > instance.  see
> > sketchup.google.com 
>
> > For me, however, it has one problem; the only scripting language now is
> > Ruby and I would far prefer to sript it in Python.  Are there any Python
> > and Sketchup user who agree and who would help me persuade the sketchup
> > developers to add Python?  Does anyone have any persuasive arguments to
> > suggest?
> > 
> > Short and to the point.
>
> Thanks again Terry,
> I will apologize for being too wordy, and my unintentional rough-ness
> towards Ruby. Again i stress the fact that i am in no way dogging
> Ruby. I am sure there are many places where Ruby out performs Python.
> But IMHO i really believe that Python is easier to learn than Ruby(for
> non-programmers). I quickly picked up on python and even C, but Ruby
> still turns me off. (did i mention Ruby was the first language i
> tried!) This is not ruby's fault, ruby may be geared more to a
> proffessional programmer, which i am not. I just see that python is
> perfect for scripting applications(from my point of veiw). I just
> simply want to introduce others to the joy i get from using python.
> And since SketchUp is for modelers NOT programmers, this may be just
> what they need.
> Thanks i respect everyones opinion here. Even Chris's opinion!

Well... 3 for Ruby 1 for python. Not looking good so far. Any more
votes?
--
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list


Re: HELP!...Google SketchUp needs a Python API

2008-11-27 Thread r
On Nov 27, 9:31 pm, alex23 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> On Nov 28, 12:49 pm, r <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> > Well... 3 for Ruby 1 for python. Not looking good so far. Any more
> > votes?
>
> I don't see -any- of the responses in this thread "voting" for
> anything other than a more civil approach to your request. If you're
> seeing these in a "if you're not with me you're against me" light,
> then you have far more serious concerns then the absence of a Python
> API in SketchUp.
>
> Incidentally, Google -acquired- SketchUp from an independent
> development company, as they were looking for a simple-to-use
> modelling tool to allow for rapid model inclusion with Google Earth.
> AS @Last Software were completely unrelated to Google when they first
> developed SketchUp, it's hardly a surprise that they chose whatever
> damn scripting API they wanted to.

I am still flabbergasted by the solid resistance to promoting Python.
Here of all places, NOT even one person(well Terry did kinda half
agree with me =), wants to support Python. I am completely perplexed.
I had to check and make sure this was comp.lang.python and NOT
comp.lang.ruby. WOW! I'm hurt, not that no one agree's with my overly
ambitious idea, but at the lack of support for Python. What would the
BDFL say if he saw this post, sure you can call me crazy, sure you can
call me an idiot, but you cannot support Python! You OWE your
allegence to Python and the BDFL. I would be very disappointed.

I think i know why nobody wants to get on-board. All the regulars
can't have a n00b come in here and propose a grand Idea. Does it
bother you that i am so ambitious, so FOR the advancement of Python!
Why do you get so offended by the mention that python is better in
this way or that, than Ruby. Answer that if you are a man. Would you
like to see python in more applications? Why do you even use Python.
Do you feel you should give back or just take, take, take??? I have
shared my feelings, let's hear yours.
--
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list


Re: HELP!...Google SketchUp needs a Python API

2008-11-27 Thread r
On Nov 27, 9:56 pm, alex23 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> On Nov 28, 1:45 pm, r <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> > Does it bother you that i am so ambitious[...] Answer that if
> > you are a man. [...] Do you feel you should give back or just
> > take, take, take??? I have shared my feelings, let's hear yours.
>
> It bothers me that you seem to be off your medication and turning this
> into a non-existent conspiracy amongst a lot of unjustified ad hominem
> attacks.
>
> My personal feeling is that you're a complete idiot who could've
> achieved more actually working on the problem you perceive in
> SketchUp's lack of a Python API in the time you've spent abusing
> others for what you see as greed, arrogance and stupidity.

Did you even read my OP, I mean the whole thing... not just the title?
I am working on the problem, I am trying to garner support for a
Python intergration. Grass Roots kinda thing.

[alex23]
@Last Software were completely unrelated to Google when they first
developed SketchUp, it's hardly a surprise that they chose whatever
damn scripting API they wanted to.
[/alex23]

Why can't Google change the API now? They own it right? Why can't
there be 2 API's? A kinda 60 free love thing. And why are you SO
violently against it? Is this a sin?
--
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list


Re: HELP!...Google SketchUp needs a Python API

2008-11-27 Thread r
On Nov 27, 10:08 pm, r <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> On Nov 27, 9:56 pm, alex23 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> > On Nov 28, 1:45 pm, r <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> > > Does it bother you that i am so ambitious[...] Answer that if
> > > you are a man. [...] Do you feel you should give back or just
> > > take, take, take??? I have shared my feelings, let's hear yours.
>
> > It bothers me that you seem to be off your medication and turning this
> > into a non-existent conspiracy amongst a lot of unjustified ad hominem
> > attacks.
>
> > My personal feeling is that you're a complete idiot who could've
> > achieved more actually working on the problem you perceive in
> > SketchUp's lack of a Python API in the time you've spent abusing
> > others for what you see as greed, arrogance and stupidity.
>
> Did you even read my OP, I mean the whole thing... not just the title?
> I am working on the problem, I am trying to garner support for a
> Python intergration. Grass Roots kinda thing.
>
> [alex23]
> @Last Software were completely unrelated to Google when they first
> developed SketchUp, it's hardly a surprise that they chose whatever
> damn scripting API they wanted to.
> [/alex23]
>
> Why can't Google change the API now? They own it right? Why can't
> there be 2 API's? A kinda 60 free love thing. And why are you SO
> violently against it? Is this a sin?
Going with Terry's great advice i will now re-post my ideas on this
subject

Hello fellow Python enthusiust!
Google has released a program called SkectchUp in both a free and Pro
version.
http://sketchup.google.com/index.html

It is an architectural based 3D modeling application with support for
windows and Mac and has a large following.(i think it will work in
linux with WINE but full support is not there yet...this is also
something we could help change though). Which is a good complement to
Blender. I believe it would be great if SketchUp included a Python API
and i am looking for support in that direction. If anybody is
interested in helping me persuade the SketchUp DEV TEAM to add Python
i would love to hear your suggestions.
Again Thank you!
--
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list


Re: HELP!...Google SketchUp needs a Python API

2008-11-27 Thread r
On Nov 27, 10:57 pm, George Sakkis <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> On Nov 27, 10:45 pm, r <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> > I am still flabbergasted by the solid resistance to promoting Python.
> > Here of all places, NOT even one person(well Terry did kinda half
> > agree with me =), wants to support Python. I am completely perplexed.
> > I had to check and make sure this was comp.lang.python and NOT
> > comp.lang.ruby.
>
> > (more inane rambling snipped)
>
> It's indeed comp.lang.python, a list which for whatever sociological
> reason attracts mainly moderate posters rather than rabid fanboys and
> script kiddies, unlike other communities you may be more familiar
> with. Perhaps you chose the wrong group for your new adopted religion.
> Why don't you go read a tutorial, write up some code, and come back
> with any real questions next time.
>
> George

WOW, thanks George for your honest reply.
--
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Re: HELP!...Google SketchUp needs a Python API

2008-11-27 Thread r
To think...that I would preach freedom to the slaves and be lynched
for it...IS MADNESS!

Not one vote for Python, not a care. I think everyone here should look
deep within their self and realize the damage that has been done
today! I hope Guido's eyes never see this thread, for he may lose all
hope in humanity. He only spent the last 18 years of his life pursuing
this thing called Python. Maybe 1,2,3, years from now someone will see
this thread and post a vote for Python. Maybe as simple as "I will
fight for Python" , "I am not scared to go up against the status quo".
For that day will be a glorious day. That day shall be Python Day!
I will never give UP!

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Re: HELP!...Google SketchUp needs a Python API

2008-11-27 Thread r
On Nov 27, 11:28 pm, r <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> To think...that I would preach freedom to the slaves and be lynched
> for it...IS MADNESS!
>
> Not one vote for Python, not a care. I think everyone here should look
> deep within their self and realize the damage that has been done
> today! I hope Guido's eyes never see this thread, for he may lose all
> hope in humanity. He only spent the last 18 years of his life pursuing
> this thing called Python. Maybe 1,2,3, years from now someone will see
> this thread and post a vote for Python. Maybe as simple as "I will
> fight for Python" , "I am not scared to go up against the status quo".
> For that day will be a glorious day. That day shall be Python Day!
> I will never give UP!

[alex23]
Hippie idealism aside, nothing is "free". You're asking -other-
people
to shoulder the effort for something -you- want.
[/alex23]

I AM NOT ASKING FOR OTHER PEOPLE TO DO THIS FOR ME. I am asking for
SUPPORT! Yes, i will need smarter people than myself to make this
happen, I AM NO PYTHON GURU. But there are many ways i can help. And i
WILL invest every once of entergy within myself to make this happen. I
believe python is perfect for this situation. NOT EVERY SITUATION. I
am not saying python is the only good language to use. Any good
programmer knows many languages. Python is not a CURE ALL language.
All of this i made clear in the OP. You must see past your love of
ruby to see my reasoning.

It's very simple. SketchUp is made for MODELERS not PROGRAMMERS. Give
them the easiest to learn API you can offer!

And even if this crazy idea had 0% chance of becoming a reality, Why
can't you just say "Yes, i will back Python"
-food for thought-

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Re: HELP!...Google SketchUp needs a Python API

2008-11-27 Thread r
[alex23]
How much is this API -worth- to you? How much time are -you- willing
to commit to developing it? If you lack the ability, how much -money-
are you willing to spend on hiring the people with that ability?
[/alex23]

Alex,
Are you telling me that out of all the great and wonderful developers
python has None of them would volenteer their time to promote python?
I do not believe that myself. I DO NOT want to be paid for my time, I
ONLY want to give back to Python DEV and Guido for what python has
given me. I guess if money is all you are interested in this will
never happen.

PS Good thing Guido doesn't think like you or None of use would enjoy
python for free.
-Thanksgiving dinner size FOOD for THOUGHT- my friend!
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Re: HELP!...Google SketchUp needs a Python API

2008-11-27 Thread r
On Nov 28, 12:32 am, alex23 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> On Nov 28, 3:28 pm, r <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> > To think...that I would preach freedom to the slaves and be lynched
> > for it...IS MADNESS!
>
> There's is madness in this thread, of that I have no doubt.
>
> Please don't presume to speak for Guido, he's a big boy and has shown
> he's more than capable of doing that for himself.
>
> At best, this thread is an annoying piece of trolling. At worst, it's
> a clear sign that you should seek help.

I think every body here can clearly see that you are not interested in
furthering the evolution of Python. I can live with that. Can you?
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Re: HELP!...Google SketchUp needs a Python API

2008-11-27 Thread r
On Nov 28, 12:52 am, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> On Nov 27, 10:28 pm, r <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> > To think...that I would preach freedom to the slaves and be lynched
> > for it...IS MADNESS!
>
> > Not one vote for Python, not a care. I think everyone here should look
> > deep within their self and realize the damage that has been done
> > today! I hope Guido's eyes never see this thread, for he may lose all
> > hope in humanity. He only spent the last 18 years of his life pursuing
> > this thing called Python. Maybe 1,2,3, years from now someone will see
> > this thread and post a vote for Python. Maybe as simple as "I will
> > fight for Python" , "I am not scared to go up against the status quo".
> > For that day will be a glorious day. That day shall be Python Day!
> > I will never give UP!
>
> r, i am with you!  i will back Python!!! we MUST spread
> Python throughout the world!  sketchup is the first step,
> only the first step.  it is really sad that the so-called
> Python supporters on this list don't really care about
> Python -- only money, and depravity.  you and i and the
> other few, pure of heart, must fight for Python!!
> death to infidel ruby lovers!!!
> long live Guido!
> i pledge my life to Python and Guido!!!

Ok finally! Thank you [EMAIL PROTECTED] the Python Gods have not
forsaken me!
So far that's 2 for python and 5 for Ruby (accually 2.5 for python
Terry half way agree's with me =)

There are turncoats amoung us, so we must tread carefully! We shall
fight the good fight. But i must must warn you brother, many here do
not agree with our passion for Python!  This will be an uphill battle,
But battle we must! For our names shall be engraved in the halls of
Python forever. Fight with me for Glory not riches. Fight with me and
you shall be free. FREDOM!

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Re: HELP!...Google SketchUp needs a Python API

2008-11-27 Thread r


> Python supporters on this list don't really care about
> Python -- only money, and depravity.  you and i and the
> other few, pure of heart, must fight for Python!!

Unfortunatly no others besides yourself have come forward. This is not
a fight for my ideas anymore as a test of the community! You make a
good point, money is the great corruptor. Guido gave a large portion
of his life to bring about python. And for these people to say in one
breath "Yea, I use free Python" and in the next say "No I will not
support free Python" desicrates the work that Guido and the DEV TEAM
have done! Guido GAVE python to the world for FREE. Guido has done his
job, now it is time to step up and be counted! I came here to seek
support for python and to my dismay have incountered huge resistance,
NOT to my ideas, but to support for Python. What future is there for
python when comp.lang.python will not support Python! Sure my idea is
ambitious, but does that mean we should not try?

Try to give back some time and you will see a change in your life for
the better. There are greater things in life than money. Take Guido's
example!
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Re: HELP!...Google SketchUp needs a Python API

2008-11-28 Thread r
> and we're not throwing ourselves at your pet project because most of us don't 
> give a monkey's toss about Sketchup. > Why should we put our time and energy 
> into a piece of software that we don't care about?

AGAIN, I'm NOT asking you to support SKETCHUP I am asking for support
for PYTHON! Did you even read my entire OP?? Or did you just jump on
Chris's bandwagon? Do you think for yourself, or do you follow blindly
like a SHEEPLE??

this is the last line from my OP!
"but what needs to happen is to get a list together of people that use
SketchUp or people who want use SketchUp, or people who just think...
(having python in SketchUp)...it is a damn good idea and submit it to
the DEV TEAM."

I think you are TOO lazy to read a post as long as mine to the end,
and since I have no reputation like Chris or George here you would
never support my idea simply for that reason! If you support python
scripting in SketchUp you are supporting Python, SketchUp is just
collateral damage. But you are too blind with pride to see that.

I think you and everyone that has replied negativly to this post justs
want to use Python and not put in an effort to further Python. Hey,
it's a free world baby... But can you really live with yourself???
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Re: HELP!...Google SketchUp needs a Python API

2008-11-28 Thread r
> The fact _you_ don't like Ruby doesn't make it a bad language. If what
> you want is a Python API to SketchUp, bashing Ruby certainly won't help
> - quite on the contrary. And it won't help promoting Python neither.

Thanks Bruno,
I never said Ruby is a bad Language! do you what IMHO means?? For
every question there is one answer. Do YOU BRUNO, think that learning
Ruby is easier than learning Python(for non-programmers)?? Can you
honestly answer a simple question like this? Or does pride get in the
way. Or maybe you where born knowing all programming languages and
that is why you honestly cannot answer.
-food for thought-
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Re: HELP!...Google SketchUp needs a Python API

2008-11-28 Thread r
On Nov 28, 11:52 am, r <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > and we're not throwing ourselves at your pet project because most of us 
> > don't give a monkey's toss about Sketchup. > Why should we put our time and 
> > energy into a piece of software that we don't care about?
>
> AGAIN, I'm NOT asking you to support SKETCHUP I am asking for support
> for PYTHON! Did you even read my entire OP?? Or did you just jump on
> Chris's bandwagon? Do you think for yourself, or do you follow blindly
> like a SHEEPLE??
>
> this is the last line from my OP!
> "but what needs to happen is to get a list together of people that use
> SketchUp or people who want use SketchUp, or people who just think...
> (having python in SketchUp)...it is a damn good idea and submit it to
> the DEV TEAM."
>
> I think you are TOO lazy to read a post as long as mine to the end,
> and since I have no reputation like Chris or George here you would
> never support my idea simply for that reason! If you support python
> scripting in SketchUp you are supporting Python, SketchUp is just
> collateral damage. But you are too blind with pride to see that.
>
> I think you and everyone that has replied negativly to this post justs
> want to use Python and not put in an effort to further Python. Hey,
> it's a free world baby... But can you really live with yourself???

I encourage everyone that have been offended by my remarks about Ruby
to Post their feeling about how Ruby is better than Python. THE ONLY
REASON I SAID PYTHON WAS BETTER WAS IT'S LEARNABILITY. Proove to me
intellectually that Ruby is easier to learn, instead of getting
offended an spiting hateful remarks.

I am sure the same goals can be accomplished with both languages.
Sometimes Ruby will be better, sometimes Python will be better. You
know there can only be one winner to a contest. This "everybody needs
to win" crap makes me sick. Take for example little league games where
they let both teams win. What does this teach a child. Winning is
WRONG?? Yes...competition brings out the best and worst in all of us,
but without it, we would still be in the stone ages. Wake up, i
thought intellectual people hung out here, not blind SHEEPLE who will
jump on the bandwagon. This is the same madness that Hitler employed!
Use your mind, think freely of other people, and ye shall be free.
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Re: HELP!...Google SketchUp needs a Python API

2008-11-28 Thread r
Thanks again alex23,
but did you not already post the exact same thing, can you not engage
in intellectual conversation, or have you spent your last penny?

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