Re: [Python-mode] huge files
Am 14.02.2012 22:31, schrieb Andrea Crotti: It looks like it's a common problem in the Elisp world, but I was wondering is it normal to have huge source files. python-mode.el is 10k lines now, which for me causes two problems: - it's hard to even know the various functionalities - it's hard to manage the file I see various things that could be very easily splitted - virtualenv - ipython - pdbtrack (maybe) - defcustom-defvar (or maybe better by topic taking the variables together) and probably more. Since it doesn't do any difference in terms of performance and it's much less intimidating to try to grasp, is there a reason to keep all in one big file? think it's basically historical. People interested in developing/understanding might check out and use the components branch https://code.launchpad.net/~a-roehler/python-mode/components-python-mode I'm doing all my developing and Python editing there. It's sometimes ahead several days, if new features are introduced. But the same tests are run before commits, so a possible loss in stability is mince. BTW in future we could create a declared stable branch of components and make two tarballs for release. CC to Barry for this question. Andreas ___ Python-mode mailing list Python-mode@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-mode
Re: [Python-mode] huge files
On 02/15/2012 08:34 AM, Andreas Röhler wrote: think it's basically historical. People interested in developing/understanding might check out and use the components branch https://code.launchpad.net/~a-roehler/python-mode/components-python-mode I'm doing all my developing and Python editing there. It's sometimes ahead several days, if new features are introduced. But the same tests are run before commits, so a possible loss in stability is mince. BTW in future we could create a declared stable branch of components and make two tarballs for release. CC to Barry for this question. Andreas Ah i see interesting, so you did already this split.. Well I think that only one file might be easier to deploy, but the average Emacs user should not really have problems in untarring a tar and change the load path, right? And the thing is that if I checkout the bzr repo I would expect that I see the same structure that the devs are actually seeing, otherwise it's also harder to apply patches directly reported from others for example. So a big +1 in a declared stable branch of components :) ___ Python-mode mailing list Python-mode@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-mode
Re: [Python-mode] huge files
On Feb 15, 2012, at 09:34 AM, Andreas Röhler wrote: think it's basically historical. People interested in developing/understanding might check out and use the components branch https://code.launchpad.net/~a-roehler/python-mode/components-python-mode I'm doing all my developing and Python editing there. It's sometimes ahead several days, if new features are introduced. But the same tests are run before commits, so a possible loss in stability is mince. BTW in future we could create a declared stable branch of components and make two tarballs for release. I've always thought that because python-mode.el is a separate download, it's better to have one big file. This makes it easier for users to add it to their Emacsen, even though it makes it more difficult to maintain, as rightly observed. But maybe we're at the tipping point where that trade-off should go the other way. Good, discoverable, installation documentation would go a long way toward alleviating those concerns. I run python-mode out of the bzr trunk, so I'm probably not a good use case. In a very real sense, this is Andreas's decision now. He who does the work, decides and Andreas has for quite a while now assumed primary ownership on the code, by virtue of his great work on the mode. I have no place to stand in the way of his decision on this. Cheers, -Barry signature.asc Description: PGP signature ___ Python-mode mailing list Python-mode@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-mode
Re: [Python-mode] huge files
On Wed, Feb 15, 2012 at 07:57:46AM -0500, Barry Warsaw wrote: On Feb 15, 2012, at 09:34 AM, Andreas Röhler wrote: think it's basically historical. People interested in developing/understanding might check out and use the components branch https://code.launchpad.net/~a-roehler/python-mode/components-python-mode I'm doing all my developing and Python editing there. It's sometimes ahead several days, if new features are introduced. But the same tests are run before commits, so a possible loss in stability is mince. BTW in future we could create a declared stable branch of components and make two tarballs for release. I've always thought that because python-mode.el is a separate download, it's better to have one big file. This makes it easier for users to add it to their Emacsen, even though it makes it more difficult to maintain, as rightly observed. But maybe we're at the tipping point where that trade-off should go the other way. Good, discoverable, installation documentation would go a long way toward alleviating those concerns. I run python-mode out of the bzr trunk, so I'm probably not a good use case. In a very real sense, this is Andreas's decision now. He who does the work, decides and Andreas has for quite a while now assumed primary ownership on the code, by virtue of his great work on the mode. I have no place to stand in the way of his decision on this. Extending what Barry said ... python-mode.el already has a hurdle to overcome, as it's not distributed with emacs. I think a single file makes it easier for non-experts (I'm in this category) to drop in .emacs.d and run. http://marmalade-repo.org/about However, as the Marmalade server (hopefully) becomes a standard method for distributing 3rd party emacs packages, then multi-file python-mode will be a non-issue. Perhaps we might see some convergence in this direction? Agreed that the decision is Andreas's, and I thank him for his efforts. Jeff Bauer Rubicon, Inc. ___ Python-mode mailing list Python-mode@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-mode
Re: [Python-mode] huge files
Am 15.02.2012 13:57, schrieb Barry Warsaw: On Feb 15, 2012, at 09:34 AM, Andreas Röhler wrote: think it's basically historical. People interested in developing/understanding might check out and use the components branch https://code.launchpad.net/~a-roehler/python-mode/components-python-mode I'm doing all my developing and Python editing there. It's sometimes ahead several days, if new features are introduced. But the same tests are run before commits, so a possible loss in stability is mince. BTW in future we could create a declared stable branch of components and make two tarballs for release. I've always thought that because python-mode.el is a separate download, it's better to have one big file. This makes it easier for users to add it to their Emacsen, even though it makes it more difficult to maintain, as rightly observed. But maybe we're at the tipping point where that trade-off should go the other way. Good, discoverable, installation documentation would go a long way toward alleviating those concerns. I run python-mode out of the bzr trunk, so I'm probably not a good use case. In a very real sense, this is Andreas's decision now. He who does the work, decides and Andreas has for quite a while now assumed primary ownership on the code, by virtue of his great work on the mode. I have no place to stand in the way of his decision on this. Cheers, -Barry thanks looking with patience at my endeavors :) Changed the intro note at lp, which mentions now a developing branch beneath the trunk. Concerning the one-file-solution see the pro at the users side. BTW as for patches sent, the branch wouldn't be of importance so far. The only point is the being against a current revision. Cheers, Andreas ___ Python-mode mailing list Python-mode@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-mode
Re: [Python-mode] huge files
On 02/15/2012 03:08 PM, François Pinard wrote: It's easier to share and install. A bit, not by much, nowadays. Splitting might be a trigger towards a more formal installation procedure. But it would not alleviate the need for some good, or at least reasonable documentation. Splitting could also give to some the feeling that it replaces documentation. So I fear a bit that energies might be dispersed away from the real thing to do. I don't think that the single file should disappear, what I just would like is that if I'm downloading from bazaar I see all the components, which is also how Andreas is actually working. It's still easy to produce one single file for deployment, if that turns out to be better. And really, 10k lines of code is not good, in any language, because it's impossible just have a look at the file and understand (even very approximatively) what is going on. ___ Python-mode mailing list Python-mode@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-mode
Re: [Python-mode] huge files
Andrea Crotti andrea.crott...@gmail.com writes: And really, 10k lines of code is not good, in any language, because it's impossible just have a look at the file and understand (even very approximatively) what is going on. Hi, Andrea. I really believe that there are ways to organize and document a big file so it is clear, legible, and manageable. It all depends on the code. Gnus or Org could not be bundled as a single file. Next to these, Python mode is still a tiny thing. Splitting a small project in parts might augment the editing hurdle. If the original file is disorganised, splitting it might organise it a bit, but overall, this would only very marginally improve it. If there is a problem in the area of clarity and legibility, splitting is really not going to solve it in a significant way. This would be a wrong approach for a real problem. Oh, no doubt that there might be other good reasons to split. But as far as the quality of the documentation is meant, it would not buy us much, and might only induce useless delays. François ___ Python-mode mailing list Python-mode@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-mode
