Re: [Pythonmac-SIG] LOLpatents
Am 2008-12-13 um 00:27 schrieb has: Look what I ran across today: http://appft1.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO2Sect2=HITOFFu=%2Fnetahtml%2FPTO%2Fsearch-adv.htmlr=1p=1f=Gl=50d=PG01S1=%28scripting+AND+bridge%29.TTL.OS=ttl/(scripting+and+bridge)RS=TTL/(scripting+AND+bridge) I find especially appropriate that Apple's patent lawyers go by the name of RAUBVOGEL LAW OFFICE - Raubvogel is German and means bird of prey. Aasgeier (vulture) would be even more appropriate for any patent lawyers... Greetlings from Lake Constance! Hraban --- http://www.fiee.net https://www.cacert.org (I'm an assurer) ___ Pythonmac-SIG maillist - Pythonmac-SIG@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/pythonmac-sig
Re: [Pythonmac-SIG] LOLpatents
On 12 Dec 2008, at 23:41, Conan C. Albrecht wrote: IANAL, but in my watching of open source projects for many years, if you have prior work to the patent, you're fine. If they decide to sue you, you can just show that your project predates the patent. This one was filed in 2007, so I think things like appscript are fine. (does appscript predate June 8, 2007?) Again, I'm not a lawyer. Don't worry, IANAL either.:) Anyway, appscript first appeared in 2003. Ditto aeve, which also used SB-style dynamic class creation to build its API. Come to think of it, Apple's open-source RubyOSA project pretty much copies SB's approach throughout, even down to its semi- automatic 'implicit get' mechanism. Given that RubyOSA was originally released in summer 2006 I wonder if it also counts as invalidating prior art? I guess the next questions are: - The link I found appears to be for a patent application rather than an awarded patent. (I found the direct link first, but subsequently went to the site's search page and searched for it under both applications and awards, and found it again under the former.) Have I understood the uspto.gov website correctly? (It is not the easiest thing to follow.) - If it is only an application, and not yet awarded, does its appearance on the site mean its currently up for consideration, and if it is how long does that take? - Should I pt together a bunch of prior art and send it off to the USPTO before it stops being a application and starts being awarded? When it comes to software patents, 99 percent of them are bunk. I agree that patents are necessary to let new ideas flourish, but the concept has gone way too far. And especially so in computers. People should get 2-3 years on any patent to give them time to move ahead of the competition. After that, it should be fair game. Totally agree. FWIW, I don't for a moment suspect malicious intent in Apple's filing of this application; may be habitual (everyone does it), may be opportunism (holding lots of patents looks good to investors), may be to prevent patent trolls filing a similar claim and suing them first; may be any number of reasons. All the same, it's the first time I've found myself and m work in such a position and it makes me distinctly uncomfortable. I also have appscript's users - including my own employer - to consider. Patents don't need to be enforced to have a chilling effect (e.g. watch Microsoft claiming that Linux infringes its patents while refusing to specify which ones). OTOH, it may just be that my neuroses are kicking in, and I just need to relax and not worry so much. Check out this web site on the topic: http://www.linuxfoundation.org/en/Osapa That looks useful - will do. Many thanks, has -- Control AppleScriptable applications from Python, Ruby and ObjC: http://appscript.sourceforge.net ___ Pythonmac-SIG maillist - Pythonmac-SIG@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/pythonmac-sig
Re: [Pythonmac-SIG] LOLpatents
On 13-Dec-2008, at 19:32 , has wrote: On 12 Dec 2008, at 23:41, Conan C. Albrecht wrote: IANAL, but in my watching of open source projects for many years, if you have prior work to the patent, you're fine. If they decide to sue you, you can just show that your project predates the patent. This one was filed in 2007, so I think things like appscript are fine. (does appscript predate June 8, 2007?) Again, I'm not a lawyer. Don't worry, IANAL either.:) Anyway, appscript first appeared in 2003. Ditto aeve, which also used SB-style dynamic class creation to build its API. Come to think of it, Apple's open-source RubyOSA project pretty much copies SB's approach throughout, even down to its semi-automatic 'implicit get' mechanism. Given that RubyOSA was originally released in summer 2006 I wonder if it also counts as invalidating prior art? Don't forget the original MacPython applescript interfaces. Created by Guido and me between 1996 and 2000, if I remember correctly. I think the various other non-Applescript OSA implementations (what was the name of that database-like package again?) don't count as prior art for this patent because of the automatically build glue classes clause, but the original MacPython OSA interfaces definitely did that. So, we have lots of validating prior art available. Question is: (a) is it worth the time/effort to fight this patent, and (b) if it is, when is the best time to do so. I know some people who have been involved in patent fights, I will ask around. Could other people share their insights too, and/or ask around? Hmm, one of the inventors is our old friend Bill Bumgarner. Bill, are you still on the list? Can you say anything about this patent? -- Jack Jansen, jack.jan...@cwi.nl, http://www.cwi.nl/~jack If I can't dance I don't want to be part of your revolution -- Emma Goldman ___ Pythonmac-SIG maillist - Pythonmac-SIG@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/pythonmac-sig
Re: [Pythonmac-SIG] LOLpatents
On Sat, Dec 13, 2008 at 11:15 PM, Jack Jansen jack.jan...@cwi.nl wrote: Could other people share their insights too, and/or ask around? Intuitively (to me) the best time to fight would be the least expensive, which is before the fight gets into the domain of lawyers, which means before the patent is granted, which suggests that sending the prior art to the patent office now would be a good course of action. IANAL, Hamish ___ Pythonmac-SIG maillist - Pythonmac-SIG@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/pythonmac-sig
Re: [Pythonmac-SIG] LOLpatents
On Sun, Dec 14, 2008 at 12:15:37AM +0100, Jack Jansen wrote: I think the various other non-Applescript OSA implementations (what was the name of that database-like package again?) don't count as prior art for this patent because of the automatically build glue classes clause, but the original MacPython OSA interfaces definitely did that. Frontier and its derivatives semi-automatically built glue scripts (and mappings from names to constants, etc.), which it stored statically in the object database. Sometimes the glue scripts didn't work properly out of the box and you had to edit them manually. There's some discussion of the process here: http://pages.sbcglobal.net/mattneub/frontierDef/ch32.html#pgfId-896 All that code is open-source now, for example the 'aete' parser is here: http://frontierkernel.sourceforge.net/cgi-bin/lxr/source/Common/source/osaparseaete.c Code from an earlier time. How I miss Frontier... -- Nicholas Riley njri...@uiuc.edu | http://www.uiuc.edu/ph/www/njriley ___ Pythonmac-SIG maillist - Pythonmac-SIG@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/pythonmac-sig
