Re: [Qbs] Who compared build times of Qt Creator with CMake and qbs?

[Christian Kandeler]

On Wed, 15 May 2019 19:16:01 +0300
Orgad Shaneh  wrote:

> Probably because cmake aggregates files, while qbs builds each one
> separately.

One could verify:
https://doc.qt.io/qbs/qml-qbsmodules-cpp.html#combineCxxSources-prop
https://doc.qt.io/qbs/qml-qbsmodules-qt-core.html#combineMocOutput-prop


Christian
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Re: [Qbs] Who compared build times of Qt Creator with CMake and qbs?

[Иван Комиссаров]

Interesting. Any idea why Qbs is so slow with ccache?

Иван Комиссаров

> 15 мая 2019 г., в 17:29, Orgad Shaneh  написал(а):
> 
> du -shc build-qtc-qbs
> 15G build-qtc-qbs
> 15G total
> du -shc build-qtc-cmake
> 4.0Gbuild-qtc-cmake
> 4.0Gtotal
> 
> The number of jobs is default. For qbs it's 40, ninja uses 42.
> 
> I tried again without autotests, as Christian suggested:
> 
> time qbs -f ../qt-creator/qtcreator.qbs profile:qt-5-11-1 
> modules.cpp.compilerWrapper:ccache project.withAutotests:false
> cold ccache:
> real4m58.383s
> user114m45.623s
> sys 15m38.866s
>  
> warm cache:
> real1m20.800s
> user16m20.307s
> sys 3m57.194s
>  
> time cmake ../qt-creator -DCMAKE_CXX_COMPILER_LAUNCHER=ccache 
> -DCMAKE_C_COMPILER_LAUNCHER=ccache -DCMAKE_BUILD_TYPE=Debug -G Ninja
> real0m8.256s
> user0m7.425s
> sys 0m0.827s
>  
> time ninja
> cold cache:
> real5m23.413s
> user128m25.457s
> sys 16m11.551s
>  
> time ninja:
> warm cache:
> real0m45.964s
> user7m12.563s
> sys 2m23.616s
> 
> 
>> On Wed, May 15, 2019 at 5:50 PM Vincent Hui  wrote:
>> How many number of threads were used? Is the number of threads used by Qbs 
>> equal to the number of threads used by CMake? 
>> 
>> 
>>> On Wed, 15 May 2019 at 22:11, Christian Kandeler  
>>> wrote:
>>> On Thu, 16 May 2019 02:01:21 +1200
>>> Christian Gagneraud  wrote:
>>> 
>>> > As well, please note that the current CMake doesn't build as much
>>> > stuff as the qbs one. Not sure the difference is huge, but you need to
>>> > compare "equal jobs".
>>> 
>>> For instance, all autotests are missing from the cmake build, so this
>>> alone accounts for a difference of ~100 products. You need to set
>>> "project.withAutotests:false" when building with qbs.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Christian
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Re: [Qbs] Who compared build times of Qt Creator with CMake and qbs?

[Orgad Shaneh]

du -shc build-qtc-qbs
15G build-qtc-qbs
15G total
du -shc build-qtc-cmake
4.0Gbuild-qtc-cmake
4.0Gtotal

The number of jobs is default. For qbs it's 40, ninja uses 42.

I tried again without autotests, as Christian suggested:

time qbs -f ../qt-creator/qtcreator.qbs profile:qt-5-11-1
modules.cpp.compilerWrapper:ccache project.withAutotests:false
cold ccache:
real4m58.383s
user114m45.623s
sys 15m38.866s

warm cache:
real1m20.800s
user16m20.307s
sys 3m57.194s

time cmake ../qt-creator -DCMAKE_CXX_COMPILER_LAUNCHER=ccache
-DCMAKE_C_COMPILER_LAUNCHER=ccache -DCMAKE_BUILD_TYPE=Debug -G Ninja
real0m8.256s
user0m7.425s
sys 0m0.827s

time ninja
cold cache:
real5m23.413s
user128m25.457s
sys 16m11.551s

time ninja:
warm cache:
real0m45.964s
user7m12.563s
sys 2m23.616s


On Wed, May 15, 2019 at 5:50 PM Vincent Hui  wrote:

> How many number of threads were used? Is the number of threads used by Qbs
> equal to the number of threads used by CMake?
>
>
> On Wed, 15 May 2019 at 22:11, Christian Kandeler 
> wrote:
>
>> On Thu, 16 May 2019 02:01:21 +1200
>> Christian Gagneraud  wrote:
>>
>> > As well, please note that the current CMake doesn't build as much
>> > stuff as the qbs one. Not sure the difference is huge, but you need to
>> > compare "equal jobs".
>>
>> For instance, all autotests are missing from the cmake build, so this
>> alone accounts for a difference of ~100 products. You need to set
>> "project.withAutotests:false" when building with qbs.
>>
>>
>> Christian
>> ___
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Re: [Qbs] Who compared build times of Qt Creator with CMake and qbs?

[Vincent Hui]

How many number of threads were used? Is the number of threads used by Qbs
equal to the number of threads used by CMake?


On Wed, 15 May 2019 at 22:11, Christian Kandeler 
wrote:

> On Thu, 16 May 2019 02:01:21 +1200
> Christian Gagneraud  wrote:
>
> > As well, please note that the current CMake doesn't build as much
> > stuff as the qbs one. Not sure the difference is huge, but you need to
> > compare "equal jobs".
>
> For instance, all autotests are missing from the cmake build, so this
> alone accounts for a difference of ~100 products. You need to set
> "project.withAutotests:false" when building with qbs.
>
>
> Christian
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Re: [Qbs] Who compared build times of Qt Creator with CMake and qbs?

[Christian Kandeler]

On Thu, 16 May 2019 02:01:21 +1200
Christian Gagneraud  wrote:

> As well, please note that the current CMake doesn't build as much
> stuff as the qbs one. Not sure the difference is huge, but you need to
> compare "equal jobs".

For instance, all autotests are missing from the cmake build, so this
alone accounts for a difference of ~100 products. You need to set
"project.withAutotests:false" when building with qbs.


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Re: [Qbs] Who compared build times of Qt Creator with CMake and qbs?

[Christian Gagneraud]

On Thu, 16 May 2019 at 01:45, Orgad Shaneh  wrote:
>
> I compared qbs and cmake/ninja, and got these results (Debug build, no QbsPM 
> and no Clang):
>
> Notice that qbs builds unit tests, which cmake doesn't.
>
> time qbs -f ../qt-creator/qtcreator.qbs profile:qt-5-11-1 
> modules.cpp.compilerWrapper:ccache
> cold ccache:
> real5m26.149s
> user125m3.443s
> sys 16m55.134s
>
> warm cache:
> real1m40.335s
> user17m20.419s
> sys 4m12.409s
>
> time cmake ../qt-creator -DCMAKE_CXX_COMPILER_LAUNCHER=ccache 
> -DCMAKE_C_COMPILER_LAUNCHER=ccache -DCMAKE_BUILD_TYPE=Debug -G Ninja
> real0m8.256s
> user0m7.425s
> sys 0m0.827s
>
> time ninja
> cold cache:
> real5m23.413s
> user128m25.457s
> sys 16m11.551s
>
> time ninja:
> warm cache:
> real0m45.964s
> user7m12.563s
> sys 2m23.616s
>

Thanks for reporting, i'm planning to run my own benchmark as well,
not to state who's the winner, just for curiosity.
One important metric IMHO is the ratio sys/user, as it shows I/O
bottlenecks (esp. relevant when doing debug builds with hot ccache).
In my setup i will use ram disks for ccache and build dir (source dir
has nearly no effects)
It used to be my typical config (had to fight for memory tho), until i
got a new machine with NVRam as mass storage. It's almost as fast as
ramdisks.

As well, please note that the current CMake doesn't build as much
stuff as the qbs one. Not sure the difference is huge, but you need to
compare "equal jobs".

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Re: [Qbs] Who compared build times of Qt Creator with CMake and qbs?

[Orgad Shaneh]

I compared qbs and cmake/ninja, and got these results (Debug build, no
QbsPM and no Clang):

Notice that qbs builds unit tests, which cmake doesn't.

time qbs -f ../qt-creator/qtcreator.qbs profile:qt-5-11-1
modules.cpp.compilerWrapper:ccache
cold ccache:
real5m26.149s
user125m3.443s
sys 16m55.134s

warm cache:
real1m40.335s
user17m20.419s
sys 4m12.409s

time cmake ../qt-creator -DCMAKE_CXX_COMPILER_LAUNCHER=ccache
-DCMAKE_C_COMPILER_LAUNCHER=ccache -DCMAKE_BUILD_TYPE=Debug -G Ninja
real0m8.256s
user0m7.425s
sys 0m0.827s

time ninja
cold cache:
real5m23.413s
user128m25.457s
sys 16m11.551s

time ninja:
warm cache:
real0m45.964s
user7m12.563s
sys 2m23.616s

- Orgad

On Wed, May 15, 2019 at 2:24 PM Epting, Thomas 
wrote:

>  > I would like to see qbs as a supported build system in Creator for as
> long as it does not
>  > cause too much hassle to do so. That is no different to any of the
> other plugins Creator
>  > has.
>
> Side note: I plan to take care of the qbsprojectmanager plugin (not Qbs
> itself) in the future. I also plan to do Qt6 adaptions to that plugin, if
> needed, and to keep the cmake build up to date. I've already spent some
> substantial effort in improving the plugin, it's just not yet pushed
> upstream because I don't have any time for doing so at the moment.
>
> Thomas
>
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Re: [Qbs] Who compared build times of Qt Creator with CMake and qbs?

[Epting, Thomas]

 > I would like to see qbs as a supported build system in Creator for as long 
 > as it does not
 > cause too much hassle to do so. That is no different to any of the other 
 > plugins Creator
 > has.

Side note: I plan to take care of the qbsprojectmanager plugin (not Qbs itself) 
in the future. I also plan to do Qt6 adaptions to that plugin, if needed, and 
to keep the cmake build up to date. I've already spent some substantial effort 
in improving the plugin, it's just not yet pushed upstream because I don't have 
any time for doing so at the moment.

Thomas

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Re: [Qbs] Who compared build times of Qt Creator with CMake and qbs?

[Tobias Hunger]

Hi Richard,

I can only provide an opinion, it is not my place to make decisions.

On Tue, 2019-05-14 at 20:42 +0200, Richard Weickelt wrote:
> Tobias,
> 
> I think it is of utmost importance for the survival of Qbs that it is fully
> supported by an IDE like QtCreator.

I would like to see qbs as a supported build system in Creator for as long as it
does not cause too much hassle to do so. That is no different to any of the
other plugins Creator has.

> What would yo define as the minimum criteria for keeping Qbs supported in Qt
> Creator?

Keep it supported: Qbs needs to build with a Qt version supported by Qt Creator.

Keep it enabled in the binary packages: Qbs needs to build with the Qt version
used by the binary packages.

> > The challenge will be Qt 6: Creator will use Qt 6 ASAP and since qbs is
> > linked
> > into Creator, that will also need to be ported to Qt 6 to stay feasible.
> 
> Do you already have an idea when QtCreator will switch to Qt 6? Given the
> current release plan https://wiki.qt.io/Qt5Releasing, I expect the first
> release of Qt6 to happen around November 2020.

I do not know more about the timeline for Qt 6 than you do.

We will build Qt Creator with Qt 6 ASAP. It is a testbed and bug-detector for Qt
after all.

But as Andre already stated: We will also keep Qt 5 compatibility for as long as
that is practical.

Best Regards,
Tobias

-- 
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The Qt Company GmbH, Rudower Chaussee 13, D-12489 Berlin
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Re: [Qbs] Who compared build times of Qt Creator with CMake and qbs?

[André Pönitz]

On Tue, May 14, 2019 at 08:42:50PM +0200, Richard Weickelt wrote:
> Tobias,
> 
> I think it is of utmost importance for the survival of Qbs that it is
> fully supported by an IDE like QtCreator.
> 
> > Note that this is about the build system used to *build Qt Creator
> > with*, not about *build systems supported by Qt Creator*. I would
> > personally like to keep qbs supported as a build system for projects
> > in Qt Creator for as long as it is feasible.
> 
> What would yo define as the minimum criteria for keeping Qbs supported
> in Qt Creator?
> 
> > The challenge will be Qt 6: Creator will use Qt 6 ASAP and since qbs
> > is linked into Creator, that will also need to be ported to Qt 6 to
> > stay feasible.
> 
> Do you already have an idea when QtCreator will switch to Qt 6? Given
> the current release plan https://wiki.qt.io/Qt5Releasing, I expect the
> first release of Qt6 to happen around November 2020.

It surely won't be before that. 

For Qt4->Qt5 we kept the code compilable with both for more than
a year, already to have a test bed for Qt4->Qt5 regressions.

I'd like to try the same for 5->6.

Andre'
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Re: [Qbs] Who compared build times of Qt Creator with CMake and qbs?

[Richard Weickelt]

Tobias,

I think it is of utmost importance for the survival of Qbs that it is fully
supported by an IDE like QtCreator.

> Note that this is about the build system used to *build Qt Creator with*, not
> about *build systems supported by Qt Creator*. I would personally like to keep
> qbs supported as a build system for projects in Qt Creator for as long as it 
> is
> feasible.

What would yo define as the minimum criteria for keeping Qbs supported in Qt
Creator?

> The challenge will be Qt 6: Creator will use Qt 6 ASAP and since qbs is linked
> into Creator, that will also need to be ported to Qt 6 to stay feasible.

Do you already have an idea when QtCreator will switch to Qt 6? Given the
current release plan https://wiki.qt.io/Qt5Releasing, I expect the first
release of Qt6 to happen around November 2020.

Best regards
Richard
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Re: [Qbs] Who compared build times of Qt Creator with CMake and qbs?

[Vincent Hui]

Another issue is that Qt Creator will not ship with Qt Script if Qt Script
will be dropped in Qt 6. Don't know whether Qt Creator team is willing to
ship a forked Qt Script library.

Vincent


On Tue, 14 May 2019 at 19:51, Christian Gagneraud  wrote:

> On Tue, 14 May 2019 at 23:10, Joerg Bornemann 
> wrote:
> >
> > On 5/14/19 12:04 PM, Christian Gagneraud wrote:
> > > On Tue, 14 May 2019 at 22:02, Joerg Bornemann 
> wrote:
> > >>
> > >> On 5/14/19 10:57 AM, Tobias Hunger wrote:
> > >>
> > >>> The challenge will be Qt 6: Creator will use Qt 6 ASAP and since qbs
> is linked
> > >>> into Creator, that will also need to be ported to Qt 6 to stay
> feasible.
> > >>
> > >> ...which shouldn't pose a challenge at all given that Qt 6 is to keep
> > >> source incompatible changes minimal.
> > >
> > > Unless they drop QtScript...
> >
> > This is bound to happen anyway. It can be forked.
>
> But can it be maintained? Can it be ported to Qt6?
> By 'can', i mean who will do that? Who has the time, the resources?
>
> Chris
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Re: [Qbs] Who compared build times of Qt Creator with CMake and qbs?

[Joerg Bornemann]

On 5/14/19 12:04 PM, Christian Gagneraud wrote:
> On Tue, 14 May 2019 at 22:02, Joerg Bornemann  wrote:
>>
>> On 5/14/19 10:57 AM, Tobias Hunger wrote:
>>
>>> The challenge will be Qt 6: Creator will use Qt 6 ASAP and since qbs is 
>>> linked
>>> into Creator, that will also need to be ported to Qt 6 to stay feasible.
>>
>> ...which shouldn't pose a challenge at all given that Qt 6 is to keep
>> source incompatible changes minimal.
> 
> Unless they drop QtScript...

This is bound to happen anyway. It can be forked.


BR,

Joerg
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Re: [Qbs] Who compared build times of Qt Creator with CMake and qbs?

[Christian Gagneraud]

On Tue, 14 May 2019 at 22:02, Joerg Bornemann  wrote:
>
> On 5/14/19 10:57 AM, Tobias Hunger wrote:
>
> > The challenge will be Qt 6: Creator will use Qt 6 ASAP and since qbs is 
> > linked
> > into Creator, that will also need to be ported to Qt 6 to stay feasible.
>
> ...which shouldn't pose a challenge at all given that Qt 6 is to keep
> source incompatible changes minimal.

Unless they drop QtScript...

Chris
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Re: [Qbs] Who compared build times of Qt Creator with CMake and qbs?

[Joerg Bornemann]

On 5/14/19 10:57 AM, Tobias Hunger wrote:

> The challenge will be Qt 6: Creator will use Qt 6 ASAP and since qbs is linked
> into Creator, that will also need to be ported to Qt 6 to stay feasible.

...which shouldn't pose a challenge at all given that Qt 6 is to keep 
source incompatible changes minimal.


Joerg
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Re: [Qbs] Who compared build times of Qt Creator with CMake and qbs?

[Иван Комиссаров]

I don't know how does the cmake scripts work, but it should not require 
building qbs with cmake
However, it might be a good idea to retire qmake for qbs as well to reduce Qt 
dependencies. But it seems quite a huge job since qbs build is quite 
complicated and supports lots of configurations.

Иван Комиссаров

> 14 мая 2019 г., в 11:44, Denis Shienkov  написал(а):
> 
> 14.05.2019 12:32, Tobias Hunger пишет:
>> There is no find_package script for qbs that we can just use.
>> 
>> Don't panic, it will be there.
> 
> In that case, you need to add possibility to build the QBS with CMake... No? 
> :)
> 
> Or, how are you going to solve this?
> 
> BR,
> 
> Denis
> 
> 
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Re: [Qbs] Who compared build times of Qt Creator with CMake and qbs?

[Tobias Hunger]

On Tue, 2019-05-14 at 21:06 +1200, Christian Gagneraud wrote:
> From the change description:
> All plugins have been converted to CMake, with the following exceptions:
>   - qbsprojectmanager
> 
> Any reason why?

There is no find_package script for qbs that we can just use.

Don't panic, it will be there.

Best Regards,
Tobias

-- 
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Re: [Qbs] Who compared build times of Qt Creator with CMake and qbs?

[Christian Gagneraud]

On Tue, 14 May 2019 at 20:58, Tobias Hunger  wrote:
>
> On Tue, 2019-05-14 at 10:04 +0200, Ola Røer Thorsen wrote:
> > I'd like to know if Qt Creator will phase out Qbs support completely,
> > seeing the comments and summary in that commit ("Qbs is dead"). Would be
> > really bad for at least my team, if they did.
>
> That "qbs is dead" was me, so I guess I need to clarify that statement:

Quote:
Qbs is dead, I won't bother collecting that data:-) When I benchmarked
qbs against cmake they were in the same ballpark though

I will run a comparison, that is an interesting piece of information.

> I do not see qbs as an option to build Qt Creator with going forward. My plan 
> is
> to built creator with cmake and to remove both the qbs as well as the qmake
> build systems from the Qt Creator sources.
>
> Note that this is about the build system used to *build Qt Creator with*, not
> about *build systems supported by Qt Creator*. I would personally like to keep
> qbs supported as a build system for projects in Qt Creator for as long as it 
> is
> feasible.

From the change description:
All plugins have been converted to CMake, with the following exceptions:
  - qbsprojectmanager

Any reason why?

Chris.
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Re: [Qbs] Who compared build times of Qt Creator with CMake and qbs?

[Ola Røer Thorsen]

tir. 14. mai 2019 kl. 10:12 skrev Vincent Hui :

> We can see Qbs development is active.
> https://github.com/qbs/qbs/commits/master?before=ca4987ae21f3cb30fde699448abc213b37b90214+35
> Therefore I don't think it is dead.
>
>
Sure I agree, however if the mindset elsewhere is that "Qbs is dead", they
won't even look into the Qbs changelogs no matter how active it is.
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Re: [Qbs] Who compared build times of Qt Creator with CMake and qbs?

[Vincent Hui]

We can see Qbs development is active.
https://github.com/qbs/qbs/commits/master?before=ca4987ae21f3cb30fde699448abc213b37b90214+35
Therefore I don't think it is dead.


On Tue, 14 May 2019 at 16:09, Pier Luigi Fiorini <
pierluigi.fior...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Il giorno mar 14 mag 2019 alle ore 10:04 Ola Røer Thorsen <
> o...@silentwings.no> ha scritto:
>
>>
>> tir. 14. mai 2019 kl. 09:45 skrev Vincent Hui :
>>
>>> Hi,
>>>
>>> Qt Creator was ported to CMake
>>> . It is interesting to
>>> compare build times of Qt Creator with CMake and Qbs.
>>>
>>> Did anyone benchmark qbs against cmake?
>>>
>>>
>> I'd like to know if Qt Creator will phase out Qbs support completely,
>> seeing the comments and summary in that commit ("Qbs is dead"). Would be
>> really bad for at least my team, if they did.
>>
>
> This comes as a surprise.
>
> I thought Qbs was neither dead nor obsolete, it was just transitioning
> from The Qt Company to the community.
>
> --
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Re: [Qbs] Who compared build times of Qt Creator with CMake and qbs?

[Pier Luigi Fiorini]

Il giorno mar 14 mag 2019 alle ore 10:04 Ola Røer Thorsen <
o...@silentwings.no> ha scritto:

>
> tir. 14. mai 2019 kl. 09:45 skrev Vincent Hui :
>
>> Hi,
>>
>> Qt Creator was ported to CMake
>> . It is interesting to
>> compare build times of Qt Creator with CMake and Qbs.
>>
>> Did anyone benchmark qbs against cmake?
>>
>>
> I'd like to know if Qt Creator will phase out Qbs support completely,
> seeing the comments and summary in that commit ("Qbs is dead"). Would be
> really bad for at least my team, if they did.
>

This comes as a surprise.

I thought Qbs was neither dead nor obsolete, it was just transitioning from
The Qt Company to the community.

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Re: [Qbs] Who compared build times of Qt Creator with CMake and qbs?

[Ola Røer Thorsen]

tir. 14. mai 2019 kl. 09:45 skrev Vincent Hui :

> Hi,
>
> Qt Creator was ported to CMake
> . It is interesting to
> compare build times of Qt Creator with CMake and Qbs.
>
> Did anyone benchmark qbs against cmake?
>
>
I'd like to know if Qt Creator will phase out Qbs support completely,
seeing the comments and summary in that commit ("Qbs is dead"). Would be
really bad for at least my team, if they did.
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