Re: [Qemu-devel] balloon driver
On Wednesday 05 July 2006 03:58, Eric L wrote: I've been playing around with QEMU the past few days and have been quite impressed. One thing I wondered about: it seems that most of the other virtualization schemes have some sort of balloon driver to reclaim unused (cached) guest memory. (VMWare, Xen and I think user mode linux has something too). It seems like a pretty good idea to me, but from my searching, it would appear that QEMU does not have anything similar. Is this correct? If so, is there a reason why? Partly because qemu is just a normal user application. It can be swapped out by the host OS just like any other process. Adding a few Gb of extra swap and letting the host OS figure it out should get you 90% of the benefit. Paul ___ Qemu-devel mailing list Qemu-devel@nongnu.org http://lists.nongnu.org/mailman/listinfo/qemu-devel
Re: [Qemu-devel] QEMU GUI
Chris Wilson wrote: I'd be interested to know why you dislike it. The library is incompatible with itself depending on the configure time options (see string constructors vs unicode string constructors) Its ABI/API changes too often (ok, that is the result of they fixing lots of bugs that require radical changes, but they could haven't been on first place...) Its architecture is a tad old. I actually find it very nice to code in wx, much easier than GTK or MFC or raw Win32 API. Try Qt or ewl/etk if you don't like the default tcl/tk look, all 4 are quite nicer architecture-wise and less painful to be handled as dependence. MFC and winapi are surely worst than wx, gtk on the other hand is simple and relatively easy to learn. The main/only point of wx is that mimics quite well some sort of native lookfeel, and that is just nice if you have to handle windows users or idiotic managers. -- Luca Barbato Gentoo/linux Gentoo/PPC http://dev.gentoo.org/~lu_zero ___ Qemu-devel mailing list Qemu-devel@nongnu.org http://lists.nongnu.org/mailman/listinfo/qemu-devel
[Qemu-devel] No useful documentation.
Hello, I write here because there doesn't seem to be a Bugzilla for qemu and whoever is responsible for the qemu documentation must be here. The documentation is quite worthless. I'm sure you don't like hearing that, but consider that it doesn't actually show the user how get qemu to do what qemu is supposed to di (ie. run a host OS). Ok, it tells me how to create a blank disk image, that's great, but how do I create a disk image with something bootable on it? Sorry, no information on that. I expect that the most typical use case for qemu is running Windows under Linux, so you'd expect to see some documentation for that, right? Nope, none. Sure, there are trouble-shooting tips, but what use are trouble-shooting tips if you can't even get started? I've looked at qemu several times over the past several years. Every time I get excited at the prospect of migrating people to GNU/Linux by letting them run the one windows app they need... and every time I hit a brick wall, as qemu fails to actually do anything useful. Try to take this approach: You are writing to a technically competent user (perhaps a sysadmin) who wants to run Windows under Linux with qemu (perhaps to migrate some of the company computers). He has a Windows install CD, he has qemu installed, and is ready to go. Please write something that this person can use to get Windows running under qemu. Cheers, Daniel. -- http://opendocumentfellowship.org The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable man tries to adapt the world to himself. Therefore all progress depends on unreasonable men. -- George Bernard Shaw signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part ___ Qemu-devel mailing list Qemu-devel@nongnu.org http://lists.nongnu.org/mailman/listinfo/qemu-devel
Re: [Qemu-devel] No useful documentation.
On Wednesday 05 July 2006 15:57, Daniel Carrera wrote: Try to take this approach: You are writing to a technically competent user (perhaps a sysadmin) who wants to run Windows under Linux with qemu (perhaps to migrate some of the company computers). He has a Windows install CD, he has qemu installed, and is ready to go. Please write something that this person can use to get Windows running under qemu. as a person who only recently picked up Qemu, I'd like to share the methods by which I figured it out, in the order that I used them: qemu --help man qemu the forums: http://qemu.dad-answers.com/ ___ Qemu-devel mailing list Qemu-devel@nongnu.org http://lists.nongnu.org/mailman/listinfo/qemu-devel
Re: [Qemu-devel] No useful documentation.
A person who is in your position (frustrated for lack of documentation) is actually the most qualified person to write documentation. Feel free to ask any questions you have on this list. Nathaniel On Wed, 2006-07-05 at 21:57 +0100, Daniel Carrera wrote: Hello, I write here because there doesn't seem to be a Bugzilla for qemu and whoever is responsible for the qemu documentation must be here. The documentation is quite worthless. I'm sure you don't like hearing that, but consider that it doesn't actually show the user how get qemu to do what qemu is supposed to di (ie. run a host OS). Ok, it tells me how to create a blank disk image, that's great, but how do I create a disk image with something bootable on it? Sorry, no information on that. I expect that the most typical use case for qemu is running Windows under Linux, so you'd expect to see some documentation for that, right? Nope, none. Sure, there are trouble-shooting tips, but what use are trouble-shooting tips if you can't even get started? I've looked at qemu several times over the past several years. Every time I get excited at the prospect of migrating people to GNU/Linux by letting them run the one windows app they need... and every time I hit a brick wall, as qemu fails to actually do anything useful. Try to take this approach: You are writing to a technically competent user (perhaps a sysadmin) who wants to run Windows under Linux with qemu (perhaps to migrate some of the company computers). He has a Windows install CD, he has qemu installed, and is ready to go. Please write something that this person can use to get Windows running under qemu. Cheers, Daniel. ___ Qemu-devel mailing list Qemu-devel@nongnu.org http://lists.nongnu.org/mailman/listinfo/qemu-devel ___ Qemu-devel mailing list Qemu-devel@nongnu.org http://lists.nongnu.org/mailman/listinfo/qemu-devel
Re: [Qemu-devel] No useful documentation.
Dan - Try reading. -Ben Hello, I write here because there doesn't seem to be a Bugzilla for qemu and whoever is responsible for the qemu documentation must be here. The documentation is quite worthless. I'm sure you don't like hearing that, but consider that it doesn't actually show the user how get qemu to do what qemu is supposed to di (ie. run a host OS). Ok, it tells me how to create a blank disk image, that's great, but how do I create a disk image with something bootable on it? Sorry, no information on that. I expect that the most typical use case for qemu is running Windows under Linux, so you'd expect to see some documentation for that, right? Nope, none. Sure, there are trouble-shooting tips, but what use are trouble-shooting tips if you can't even get started? I've looked at qemu several times over the past several years. Every time I get excited at the prospect of migrating people to GNU/Linux by letting them run the one windows app they need... and every time I hit a brick wall, as qemu fails to actually do anything useful. Try to take this approach: You are writing to a technically competent user (perhaps a sysadmin) who wants to run Windows under Linux with qemu (perhaps to migrate some of the company computers). He has a Windows install CD, he has qemu installed, and is ready to go. Please write something that this person can use to get Windows running under qemu. Cheers, Daniel. -- http://opendocumentfellowship.org The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable man tries to adapt the world to himself. Therefore all progress depends on unreasonable men. -- George Bernard Shaw ___ Qemu-devel mailing list Qemu-devel@nongnu.org http://lists.nongnu.org/mailman/listinfo/qemu-devel ___ Qemu-devel mailing list Qemu-devel@nongnu.org http://lists.nongnu.org/mailman/listinfo/qemu-devel
Re: [Qemu-devel] No useful documentation.
On Wed, 2006-05-07 at 17:12 -0400, Nathaniel McCallum wrote: A person who is in your position (frustrated for lack of documentation) is actually the most qualified person to write documentation. Feel free to ask any questions you have on this list. I would be happy to contribute a section. First I need to learn how qemu works though. Just the basics. On another list someone told me that the way qemu works is by first creating a blank image, then booting a CD from the virtual machine and installing. At this point I know how to make a blank image, and I know how to boot a CD: qemu -cdrom /dev/cdrom Now I need to figure out how to put these together so that if this CD can install an operating system, qemu will know to use the blank image I made (call it c.img) as a hard drive for its virtual machine. Could someone tell me how to do that? I'll be happy to write an intro tutorial for new users with the knowledge I gain. Cheers, Daniel. -- http://opendocumentfellowship.org The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable man tries to adapt the world to himself. Therefore all progress depends on unreasonable men. -- George Bernard Shaw signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part ___ Qemu-devel mailing list Qemu-devel@nongnu.org http://lists.nongnu.org/mailman/listinfo/qemu-devel
Re: [Qemu-devel] No useful documentation.
Daniel Carrera wrote: I've looked at qemu several times over the past several years. Every time I get excited at the prospect of migrating people to GNU/Linux by letting them run the one windows app they need... and every time I hit a brick wall, as qemu fails to actually do anything useful. Try to take this approach: You are writing to a technically competent user (perhaps a sysadmin) who wants to run Windows under Linux with qemu (perhaps to migrate some of the company computers). He has a Windows install CD, he has qemu installed, and is ready to go. Please write something that this person can use to get Windows running under qemu. Personally I found Qemu astonishingly easy to use, and simply not needing a lot of documentation to get an OS installed from CD into it. A couple of hours after installing Qemu, having never used it before, I had a working virtual machine running CentOS, installed from a set of virtual CDs. An hour later, kqemu (the accelerator) was installed and working. I was most impressed by how easy it was and how little I had to tweak. But then I wasn't trying to run Windows inside it. Is Windows harder to install in it than some random Linux distro? -- Jamie ___ Qemu-devel mailing list Qemu-devel@nongnu.org http://lists.nongnu.org/mailman/listinfo/qemu-devel
Re: [Qemu-devel] No useful documentation.
qemu -cdrom /dev/cdrom -hda /path/to/your/image -boot d On Wednesday 05 July 2006 16:19, Daniel Carrera wrote: On Wed, 2006-05-07 at 17:12 -0400, Nathaniel McCallum wrote: A person who is in your position (frustrated for lack of documentation) is actually the most qualified person to write documentation. Feel free to ask any questions you have on this list. I would be happy to contribute a section. First I need to learn how qemu works though. Just the basics. On another list someone told me that the way qemu works is by first creating a blank image, then booting a CD from the virtual machine and installing. At this point I know how to make a blank image, and I know how to boot a CD: qemu -cdrom /dev/cdrom Now I need to figure out how to put these together so that if this CD can install an operating system, qemu will know to use the blank image I made (call it c.img) as a hard drive for its virtual machine. Could someone tell me how to do that? I'll be happy to write an intro tutorial for new users with the knowledge I gain. Cheers, Daniel. ___ Qemu-devel mailing list Qemu-devel@nongnu.org http://lists.nongnu.org/mailman/listinfo/qemu-devel
Re: [Qemu-devel] No useful documentation.
To create an empty Hard Drive image do: qemu-img create filename size for example: qemu-img create windows.img 2G You can also use the preferred (qcow) image format by doing: qemu-img create -f qcow windows.img 2G That gives you the ability to save snapshots, encrypt the image, etc. Now we'll use this image: qemu -hda windows.img -cdrom /dev/cdrom -m 256 -boot d That says: -hda windows.img == Use the file windows.img for the first disk -cdrom /dev/cdrom == Use /dev/cdrom for the CDROM -m 256 == Use 256MB of memory -boot d == Boot off of drive 'd', aka the cdrom Nathaniel On Wed, 2006-07-05 at 22:19 +0100, Daniel Carrera wrote: On Wed, 2006-05-07 at 17:12 -0400, Nathaniel McCallum wrote: A person who is in your position (frustrated for lack of documentation) is actually the most qualified person to write documentation. Feel free to ask any questions you have on this list. I would be happy to contribute a section. First I need to learn how qemu works though. Just the basics. On another list someone told me that the way qemu works is by first creating a blank image, then booting a CD from the virtual machine and installing. At this point I know how to make a blank image, and I know how to boot a CD: qemu -cdrom /dev/cdrom Now I need to figure out how to put these together so that if this CD can install an operating system, qemu will know to use the blank image I made (call it c.img) as a hard drive for its virtual machine. Could someone tell me how to do that? I'll be happy to write an intro tutorial for new users with the knowledge I gain. Cheers, Daniel. ___ Qemu-devel mailing list Qemu-devel@nongnu.org http://lists.nongnu.org/mailman/listinfo/qemu-devel ___ Qemu-devel mailing list Qemu-devel@nongnu.org http://lists.nongnu.org/mailman/listinfo/qemu-devel
Re: [Qemu-devel] No useful documentation.
On 7/5/06, Daniel Carrera [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Wed, 2006-05-07 at 17:12 -0400, Nathaniel McCallum wrote: A person who is in your position (frustrated for lack of documentation) is actually the most qualified person to write documentation. Feel free to ask any questions you have on this list. I would be happy to contribute a section. First I need to learn how qemu works though. Just the basics. On another list someone told me that the way qemu works is by first creating a blank image, then booting a CD from the virtual machine and installing. At this point I know how to make a blank image, and I know how to boot a CD: qemu -cdrom /dev/cdrom Now I need to figure out how to put these together so that if this CD can install an operating system, qemu will know to use the blank image I made (call it c.img) as a hard drive for its virtual machine. Could someone tell me how to do that? With the blank image file do the following: qemu -boot d -cdrom /dev/cdrom -hda blank_disk_image_file the '-cdrom /dev/cdrom' option could also be -cdrom iso_image_file ___ Qemu-devel mailing list Qemu-devel@nongnu.org http://lists.nongnu.org/mailman/listinfo/qemu-devel
RE: [Qemu-devel] No useful documentation.
Well, calling it worthless is a little harsh. As with all documentation I'm sure it could be made better but, if you read the documentation carefully, it actually tells you what to do. Note that there are instructions on how to boot a CD image (section 3.3 of the user manual, check out the options `-cdrom' and `boot'). Given that you've already found out how to create a blank disk image then all you have to do is boot the install CD for the OS you want, be it Windows or Linux or whatever, and go from there. That should be all you need to do. -- Don Dugger Censeo Toto nos in Kansa esse decisse. - D. Gale [EMAIL PROTECTED] Ph: (303)440-1368 -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] ] On Behalf Of Daniel Carrera Sent: Wednesday, July 05, 2006 2:57 PM To: qemu-devel@nongnu.org Subject: [Qemu-devel] No useful documentation. Hello, I write here because there doesn't seem to be a Bugzilla for qemu and whoever is responsible for the qemu documentation must be here. The documentation is quite worthless. I'm sure you don't like hearing that, but consider that it doesn't actually show the user how get qemu to do what qemu is supposed to di (ie. run a host OS). Ok, it tells me how to create a blank disk image, that's great, but how do I create a disk image with something bootable on it? Sorry, no information on that. I expect that the most typical use case for qemu is running Windows under Linux, so you'd expect to see some documentation for that, right? Nope, none. Sure, there are trouble-shooting tips, but what use are trouble-shooting tips if you can't even get started? I've looked at qemu several times over the past several years. Every time I get excited at the prospect of migrating people to GNU/Linux by letting them run the one windows app they need... and every time I hit a brick wall, as qemu fails to actually do anything useful. Try to take this approach: You are writing to a technically competent user (perhaps a sysadmin) who wants to run Windows under Linux with qemu (perhaps to migrate some of the company computers). He has a Windows install CD, he has qemu installed, and is ready to go. Please write something that this person can use to get Windows running under qemu. Cheers, Daniel. -- http://opendocumentfellowship.org The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable man tries to adapt the world to himself. Therefore all progress depends on unreasonable men. -- George Bernard Shaw ___ Qemu-devel mailing list Qemu-devel@nongnu.org http://lists.nongnu.org/mailman/listinfo/qemu-devel
Re: [Qemu-devel] No useful documentation.
On Wed, 2006-05-07 at 16:25 -0500, Rick Vernam wrote: qemu -cdrom /dev/cdrom -hda /path/to/your/image -boot d Thank you!!! You're the man! I'll write a brief tutorial and post it here as promised. Cheers, Daniel. -- http://opendocumentfellowship.org The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable man tries to adapt the world to himself. Therefore all progress depends on unreasonable men. -- George Bernard Shaw signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part ___ Qemu-devel mailing list Qemu-devel@nongnu.org http://lists.nongnu.org/mailman/listinfo/qemu-devel
Re: [Qemu-devel] No useful documentation.
On Wed, 05.07.06, Daniel Carrera [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi List and Daniel. I already answered him off-list to keep this IMHO noise down but now I have to answer. Normally I only lurk... Dan - Try reading. -Ben Thank you, I did think of that, it didn't work. The documentation is not particularly useful. In particular, it doesn't tell you how to actually get an OS running under qemu, which, I'm sure, is the most typical use case for qemu. __Straight from the docs__ -hda file -hdb file -hdc file -hdd file Use file as hard disk 0, 1, 2 or 3 image (see section 3.6 Disk Images). -cdrom file Use file as CD-ROM image (you cannot use -hdc' and and -cdrom' at the same time). You can use the host CD-ROM by using /dev/cdrom' as filename. -boot [a|c|d] Boot on floppy (a), hard disk (c) or CD-ROM (d). Hard disk boot is the default. That's in the first quarter of a medium long page and not really much technical gibberish before that. What more does a thinking man need? I *guess* you, daniel, would have liked something where you had it all pre-chewed so that you don't have to read. Some other people said it before in other contexts, I repeat it for qemu: it isn't free, you have to pay by reading stuff (short version) And thinking. Very little reading and moderate thinking and you could have refrained from IMO insulting the person (presumably fabrice) who put quite some time and effort into writing a concise and meaningful documentation for a really powerful and featureful program. If you become agitated because some docs are (in your opinion) bad, think about what you paid for it and - in my case - I still see the (bad) docs but keep myself from insulting people who work for free and in their free time!! Robos Cheers, Daniel. -- http://opendocumentfellowship.org The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable man tries to adapt the world to himself. Therefore all progress depends on unreasonable men. -- George Bernard Shaw ___ Qemu-devel mailing list Qemu-devel@nongnu.org http://lists.nongnu.org/mailman/listinfo/qemu-devel -- Robos - gpg --recv-keys --keyserver blackhole.pca.dfn.de 6EEADA09 ___ Qemu-devel mailing list Qemu-devel@nongnu.org http://lists.nongnu.org/mailman/listinfo/qemu-devel
[Qemu-devel] Qemu tutorial
Hello all, As promised, here is a tutorial I would recommend to get people started. It's short and sweet: - Tutorial: Full system emulation under Linux --- Alright, you have qemu installed and now you want to run a client OS under qemu. Follow these steps: 1) You need a blank disk image. This is like adding a blank disk to the virtual computer that qemu creates. Use this command to create a 2Gb blank disk image: qemu-img create -f qcow c.img 2G The last argument is the size of the image (2G). For more information on creating a blank image, see a href=#SEC153.6 Disk Images/a. 2) When you install an OS on a real computer you normall boot an install CD. We'll do the same with the virtual computer. Put the CD (e.g. Windows install CD) on the CD drive. qemu -cdrom /dev/cdrom -hda c.img -m 256 -boot d This boots from the CD ROM (-boot d) using 256MB of RAM (-m 256) using c.img as /dev/hda (-hda c.img). Now you can install the client OS just as you would in a real computer. - Cheers, Daniel. -- http://opendocumentfellowship.org The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable man tries to adapt the world to himself. Therefore all progress depends on unreasonable men. -- George Bernard Shaw signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part ___ Qemu-devel mailing list Qemu-devel@nongnu.org http://lists.nongnu.org/mailman/listinfo/qemu-devel
Re: [Qemu-devel] No useful documentation.
On Wed, 2006-05-07 at 23:46 +0200, Udo 'Robos' Puetz wrote: __Straight from the docs__ -hda file -hdb file Yes, but the doc doesn't, for example, explain how you are supposed to put a bootable image in file. This is addressed by the excellent responses from Nathaniel and Rick, and I included it in my proposed tutorial. This is the sort of thing that might be obvious to you in hindsight (you're very involved in qemu) but won't be to a lot of people who are technically competent, but don't already know qemu. I *guess* you, daniel, would have liked something where you had it all pre-chewed so that you don't have to read. If what you mean is good documentation, yes, that would be nice. Feel free to use my proposed tutorial, I would be flattered if you did. And yes, I do know a couple of things about documentation. Good documentation gives clear steps and doesn't leave important things unexplained. Step-by-step procedures, even if they don't exactly match the reader's use case (but can be generalized), are a good idea. Some other people said it before in other contexts, I repeat it for qemu: it isn't free, you have to pay by reading stuff (short version) That's a very sad attitude. That's not the attitude that I took when I wrote the user guide for OpenOffice.org (http://oooauthors.org). I took the attitude that documentation is critically important and that to serve its role well one has to put a strong focus on clarity and explanation. It is tempting to simply list all the features that a program has. But a feature-based documentation is mostly useful as a reference. That is, something you use once you have the mechanism down. It is critically important to write task-based documentation. In other words, ask what does the user want to do? and write down how to do it. If you become agitated because some docs are (in your opinion) bad, think about what you paid for it and - in my case - I still see the (bad) docs but keep myself from insulting people who work for free and in their free time!! I have spent a lot of time working for free on my free time, so I know the feeling. I still say that making things difficult and calling it payment is not a good attitude. Other people in this list took the approach of helping solve a problem and in turn I suggested a tutorial that would cover this situation. Cheers, Daniel. -- http://opendocumentfellowship.org The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable man tries to adapt the world to himself. Therefore all progress depends on unreasonable men. -- George Bernard Shaw signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part ___ Qemu-devel mailing list Qemu-devel@nongnu.org http://lists.nongnu.org/mailman/listinfo/qemu-devel
Re: [Qemu-devel] Qemu tutorial
A quick FYI. I mentioned that on another list someone explained that I was supposed to create a blank disk image first and then boot from a CD ROM. I then asked there do you know how to do that?. His response was No, I don't... I switched to vmware. The point of this is that I'm not the only person who can't figure this out from the documentation. You won't hear much about this because people who can't get started are not likely to join this list and ask. Please do use a quick tutorial like the one I wrote. Cheers, Daniel. On Wed, 2006-05-07 at 22:49 +0100, Daniel Carrera wrote: Hello all, As promised, here is a tutorial I would recommend to get people started. It's short and sweet: [snip] -- http://opendocumentfellowship.org The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable man tries to adapt the world to himself. Therefore all progress depends on unreasonable men. -- George Bernard Shaw signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part ___ Qemu-devel mailing list Qemu-devel@nongnu.org http://lists.nongnu.org/mailman/listinfo/qemu-devel
Re: [Qemu-devel] Qemu tutorial
On 7/5/06, Daniel Carrera [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: A quick FYI. I mentioned that on another list someone explained that I was supposed to create a blank disk image first and then boot from a CD ROM. I then asked there do you know how to do that?. His response was No, I don't... I switched to vmware. The point of this is that I'm not the only person who can't figure this out from the documentation. You won't hear much about this because people who can't get started are not likely to join this list and ask. Please do use a quick tutorial like the one I wrote. I seem to have a similar problem when trying to get a image networked correctly. ___ Qemu-devel mailing list Qemu-devel@nongnu.org http://lists.nongnu.org/mailman/listinfo/qemu-devel
Re: [Qemu-devel] No useful documentation.
Daniel Carrera wrote: In any event, since you find it so easy to use, could you please tell me how to use it? I don't use it any more, I only needed it for a couple of days as it happens. So I've completely forgotten everything, sorry ;-) Well, The only reason why now I have a fair idea of how it works is because someone told me (on a different list). And it only took them 2 sentences. They said that the way qemu works is, you first create a blank disk image and then boot the virtual machine from a CD ROM and install normally. There, that's just one sentence. That's an example of useful documentation, and notice that it's not long. Indeed, it's quite short. I guess that's where I found it clear to me. You see, I started from the view that Qemu is a PC simulator. So it must simulate a hard disk, a CD ROM, a network card, etc. Everything just like a real PC, but in a window. So the process of installing an OS on it is exactly the same as installing an OS on an ordinary PC. Which is usually from CD these days, but you can use a floppy too. The only difference really is everything is simulated, so you use a file containing a CD image instead of a real CD, a file containing a hard disk image instead of a real hard disk, some options to simulate a network card instead of a real one, etc., some options to simulate a mouse and video card, etc. The actual procedure for installing Windows or whatever is pretty much identical to doing it on a real PC. That doesn't mean it's easy, but the hard (or tedious) part is generally not with using Qemu, but with using a PC to install Windows or whatever. That can be quite difficult sometimes, but those wouldn't really be Qemu questions as long as it's simulating a PC ok - they'd be OS installation questions for any kind of PC. To make this complete, all I need now is a command to tell me how to actually boot qemu and point it to both the CD DROM (e.g. the Ubuntu install CD, or the Windows install CD) an my newly-created blank disk image. I think Nathaniel just posted a list of command line options. Though, qemu --help and man qemu seem to list them too. I should note another thing: Because the problem I'm pointing to is so fundamental, you're much less likely to hear about it. You're not going to hear about it much if the problem is that people can't even get started. You're only going to hear about problems that occur after someone gets started. I notice in your question that you assumed that I knew how to install at least one OS with qemu; I don't. Actually I didn't assume that. I assumed you knew how to install at least one OS on an ordinary PC. Installing it in Qemu is pretty much the same, other than using simulated devices instead of real ones. And the simulated devices are really easy to specify. There's a command line option to say that a .iso file contains a simulated CD-ROM image (the same .iso file you'd use for writing a CD-ROM), another option to say what file contains the simulated hard disk, another option to say that you want to boot from CD-ROM (simulated) instead of simulated floppy. I don't have Qemu installed right now to say what those options are exactly, but I remember that's not much more than those, if anything, and then you get a window which looks just like a PC booting off CD-ROM... and you do the same as you would with a real one from then on. -- Jamie ___ Qemu-devel mailing list Qemu-devel@nongnu.org http://lists.nongnu.org/mailman/listinfo/qemu-devel
Re: [Qemu-devel] No useful documentation.
What OS are you using? in linux: (assumptions: you want to boot from cd and your cdrom is located at /dev/cdrom) #cd /home/ #qemu-img create windows.img 500M #qemu -boot d -cdrom /dev/cdrom -hda windows.img Daniel Carrera wrote: In any event, since you find it so easy to use, could you please tell me how to use it? I don't use it any more, I only needed it for a couple of days as it happens. So I've completely forgotten everything, sorry ;-) Well, The only reason why now I have a fair idea of how it works is because someone told me (on a different list). And it only took them 2 sentences. They said that the way qemu works is, you first create a blank disk image and then boot the virtual machine from a CD ROM and install normally. There, that's just one sentence. That's an example of useful documentation, and notice that it's not long. Indeed, it's quite short. I guess that's where I found it clear to me. You see, I started from the view that Qemu is a PC simulator. So it must simulate a hard disk, a CD ROM, a network card, etc. Everything just like a real PC, but in a window. So the process of installing an OS on it is exactly the same as installing an OS on an ordinary PC. Which is usually from CD these days, but you can use a floppy too. The only difference really is everything is simulated, so you use a file containing a CD image instead of a real CD, a file containing a hard disk image instead of a real hard disk, some options to simulate a network card instead of a real one, etc., some options to simulate a mouse and video card, etc. The actual procedure for installing Windows or whatever is pretty much identical to doing it on a real PC. That doesn't mean it's easy, but the hard (or tedious) part is generally not with using Qemu, but with using a PC to install Windows or whatever. That can be quite difficult sometimes, but those wouldn't really be Qemu questions as long as it's simulating a PC ok - they'd be OS installation questions for any kind of PC. To make this complete, all I need now is a command to tell me how to actually boot qemu and point it to both the CD DROM (e.g. the Ubuntu install CD, or the Windows install CD) an my newly-created blank disk image. I think Nathaniel just posted a list of command line options. Though, qemu --help and man qemu seem to list them too. I should note another thing: Because the problem I'm pointing to is so fundamental, you're much less likely to hear about it. You're not going to hear about it much if the problem is that people can't even get started. You're only going to hear about problems that occur after someone gets started. I notice in your question that you assumed that I knew how to install at least one OS with qemu; I don't. Actually I didn't assume that. I assumed you knew how to install at least one OS on an ordinary PC. Installing it in Qemu is pretty much the same, other than using simulated devices instead of real ones. And the simulated devices are really easy to specify. There's a command line option to say that a .iso file contains a simulated CD-ROM image (the same .iso file you'd use for writing a CD-ROM), another option to say what file contains the simulated hard disk, another option to say that you want to boot from CD-ROM (simulated) instead of simulated floppy. I don't have Qemu installed right now to say what those options are exactly, but I remember that's not much more than those, if anything, and then you get a window which looks just like a PC booting off CD-ROM... and you do the same as you would with a real one from then on. -- Jamie ___ Qemu-devel mailing list Qemu-devel@nongnu.org http://lists.nongnu.org/mailman/listinfo/qemu-devel ___ Qemu-devel mailing list Qemu-devel@nongnu.org http://lists.nongnu.org/mailman/listinfo/qemu-devel
Re: [Qemu-devel] No useful documentation.
Udo 'Robos' Puetz wrote: -hda file -hdb file -hdc file -hdd file Use file as hard disk 0, 1, 2 or 3 image (see section 3.6 Disk Images). -cdrom file Use file as CD-ROM image (you cannot use -hdc' and and -cdrom' at the same time). You can use the host CD-ROM by using /dev/cdrom' as filename. -boot [a|c|d] Boot on floppy (a), hard disk (c) or CD-ROM (d). Hard disk boot is the default. That's in the first quarter of a medium long page and not really much technical gibberish before that. What more does a thinking man need? I *guess* you, daniel, would have liked something where you had it all pre-chewed so that you don't have to read. No, I'm guessing that concepts like use file as a hard disk image and use file as CD-ROM image and boot on floppy/disk/CD-ROM (does that mean the _real_ floppy etc.?) are alien to him, just as much as they are second nature to us. He just wants to run Windows apps, remember; his interest in virtual machines probably isn't even slightly technical. but keep myself from insulting people who work for free and in their free time!! Indeed, the first post started with an insult and ended with a one-sided demand write this for me. That's not on, from someone who isn't paying, to _tell_ people to give up their personal time for free. -- Jamie ___ Qemu-devel mailing list Qemu-devel@nongnu.org http://lists.nongnu.org/mailman/listinfo/qemu-devel
Re: [Qemu-devel] No useful documentation.
On Wed, 2006-05-07 at 15:34 -0700, Ronnie Misra wrote: I think it's great that you've offered to write documentation for qemu, but perhaps the discussion would have been smoother if you'd started with: Point taken. I admit I have little patience for poor documentation. Especially when it's something fundamental in a way that probably causes users to give up early, so the writer never finds out that there's a problem. I'm trying to be polite now. Cheers, Daniel. -- http://opendocumentfellowship.org The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable man tries to adapt the world to himself. Therefore all progress depends on unreasonable men. -- George Bernard Shaw signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part ___ Qemu-devel mailing list Qemu-devel@nongnu.org http://lists.nongnu.org/mailman/listinfo/qemu-devel
Re: [Qemu-devel] No useful documentation.
What OS are you using? in linux: (assumptions: you want to boot from cd and your cdrom is located at /dev/cdrom) #cd /home/ #qemu-img create windows.img 500M #qemu -boot d -cdrom /dev/cdrom -hda windows.img On Wed, 2006-05-07 at 15:34 -0700, Ronnie Misra wrote: I think it's great that you've offered to write documentation for qemu, but perhaps the discussion would have been smoother if you'd started with: Point taken. I admit I have little patience for poor documentation. Especially when it's something fundamental in a way that probably causes users to give up early, so the writer never finds out that there's a problem. I'm trying to be polite now. Cheers, Daniel. -- http://opendocumentfellowship.org The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable man tries to adapt the world to himself. Therefore all progress depends on unreasonable men. -- George Bernard Shaw ___ Qemu-devel mailing list Qemu-devel@nongnu.org http://lists.nongnu.org/mailman/listinfo/qemu-devel ___ Qemu-devel mailing list Qemu-devel@nongnu.org http://lists.nongnu.org/mailman/listinfo/qemu-devel
Re: [Qemu-devel] No useful documentation.
Hi! --- Let's see an example: installation. Qemu is a virtual machine program. So, that's a machine in the machine. There is a computer, called host, which runs an OS, called Host OS, and Qemu (besides other programs). Qemu is a simple program from the host point of view. To use it, you need at least one disc image. You can create one with the qemu-img command: e.g.: qemu-img create my_os.img 2G That will create a simple file (2GiB size), called my_os.img Suppose you have an install iso image, called my_os_install.iso The following command: qemu -cdrom my_os_install.iso -hda my_os.img -boot d will run a virtual machine. It will have two drives, the primary master is that 2GiB image. The secondary master is that cdrom image. Note that (from the host point of view) those are still two plain files. But from the guest OS (running in the VM), those are real drives. So, the virtual machine is started. It shows in a window what would be shown in the monitor if that was a real hardware. First you probably need to create partitions, format them, run installer to copy files, and so on. If it needs to reboot the guest, feel free to do that, Qemu will not stop working. If you don't like windowed mode, press ctrl-alt-f to go fullscreen. When you'd like to use your host OS, press ctrl-alt to release mouse grab. You can return to the VM any time. When you stop guest OS, and the virtual machine halts, Qemu exits. But the image file is modified (the guest OS remains on that), so, you don't have to reinstall it every time. If you want, you can compress that to backup, or do anything. Note that closing the VM window is like unplugging the computer. It might explain next time. 2nd example: adding sound and user networking, and some more memory. qemu -m 256 -soundhw sb16 -hda my_os.img -localtime -net nic -net user -m 256 allocate 256 MiB RAM for the guest (read note) -soundhw sb16 just like putting a soundblaster card into the slot -localtime in case the host OS runs in local time (and not GMT) -net nic -net user called user mode networking, which is the simplest way to reach internet from inside. It just works (getting IP address from DHCP automatically) (If you call qemu without parameters, it will show its possibile parameter list) note: on some systems, you need the following commands (as root) to add more memory: umount /dev/shm mount -t tmpfs -o size=512m none /dev/shm 3rd example: making kqemu working (I'm not sure, please correct it) (as root) type the following: mknod /dev/kqemu c 250 0 if it worked, the ls -al /dev/kqemu command would answer like that: crw-rw-rw- 1 root 250, 0 Mar 31 01:00 /dev/kqemu call modprobe kqemu to load kqemu kernel module (later you might install it somwhere into /lib/modules/...) If you start Qemu now, it will probably run significantly faster. --- Use that 'doc' for whatever purpose you want. I don't need it anymore :). (but please ask a native speaker to rewrite it :) ) ___ Qemu-devel mailing list Qemu-devel@nongnu.org http://lists.nongnu.org/mailman/listinfo/qemu-devel
Re: [Qemu-devel] No useful documentation.
That being said, help is given to those who ask...not offend -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Daniel Carrera wrote: I'll write a brief tutorial and post it here as promised. This is qemu-DEVEL, not qemu-HELP; it's supposed to be a place where to chat about the development and related issues (although lack of doc is effectively a development issue). If you need support or doc on using qemu, you can find a lot of info on: http://qemu.dad-answers.com/ http://qemu.dad-answers.com/viewforum.php?f=22sid=7630905349730e8ce3c61126f740c109 - -- Flavio Visentin GPG Key: http://www.zipman.it/gpgkey.asc There are only 10 types of people in this world: those who understand binary, and those who don't. -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.3 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFErEHBusUmHkh1cnoRAhl7AJ0TxCHVfmRkRpRerQwEg+LkZ4s54gCfaqnv zGsBPODODTGEqp8BA9d6wOk= =EKpN -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Qemu-devel mailing list Qemu-devel@nongnu.org http://lists.nongnu.org/mailman/listinfo/qemu-devel ___ Qemu-devel mailing list Qemu-devel@nongnu.org http://lists.nongnu.org/mailman/listinfo/qemu-devel
Re: [Qemu-devel] No useful documentation.
Were you able to get it going? On Thu, 2006-06-07 at 00:48 +0200, Flavio Visentin wrote: This is qemu-DEVEL, not qemu-HELP; it's supposed to be a place where to chat about the development and related issues (although lack of doc is effectively a development issue). Yes. As I wrote in my initial email, I wrote here because the doc is a development issue and I couldn't find a Bugzilla. I'm grateful that several people showed me how to use qemu although that's not what this list is for. In return, I offered a sample tutorial that I feel addresses the development issue I pointed out in my first post. Cheers, Daniel. -- http://opendocumentfellowship.org The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable man tries to adapt the world to himself. Therefore all progress depends on unreasonable men. -- George Bernard Shaw ___ Qemu-devel mailing list Qemu-devel@nongnu.org http://lists.nongnu.org/mailman/listinfo/qemu-devel ___ Qemu-devel mailing list Qemu-devel@nongnu.org http://lists.nongnu.org/mailman/listinfo/qemu-devel
Re: [Qemu-devel] No useful documentation.
The unoffical FAQ has several usage examples. qemu.org links to the FAQ on this wiki, but examples are not in the FAQ, so you would have to look for it. http://kidsquid.com/cgi-bin/moin.cgi/ WD -- GedMurphy why does the size matter? ___ Qemu-devel mailing list Qemu-devel@nongnu.org http://lists.nongnu.org/mailman/listinfo/qemu-devel
Re: [Qemu-devel] ARM9 emulation?
On Tuesday 04 July 2006 17:17, Andrew Lentvorski wrote: You might want to put an ARM9 or ARM7 as a separate word somewhere on the page. Putting qemu arm9 into any of the search engines provides nothing useful. Possibly, but wouldn't the documentation be the first place to look? ___ Qemu-devel mailing list Qemu-devel@nongnu.org http://lists.nongnu.org/mailman/listinfo/qemu-devel
Re: [Qemu-devel] No useful documentation.
haha i did not intend to direct that to you. sorry -Ben -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: That being said, help is given to those who ask...not offend This was not meant to be offensive in any way. - -- Flavio Visentin GPG Key: http://www.zipman.it/gpgkey.asc There are only 10 types of people in this world: those who understand binary, and those who don't. -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.3 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFErEz3usUmHkh1cnoRApX4AJ0aMKf1nkphpU4xW1zfeQKQZXkCFgCeIyNy I7Fvce3ZcWFdmpukkp8HAtg= =lI4X -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Qemu-devel mailing list Qemu-devel@nongnu.org http://lists.nongnu.org/mailman/listinfo/qemu-devel ___ Qemu-devel mailing list Qemu-devel@nongnu.org http://lists.nongnu.org/mailman/listinfo/qemu-devel
Re: [Qemu-devel] Documentation for Windows host - is a QEMU wiki the way forward ?
On Wed, Jul 05, 2006 at 07:55:14PM -0400, Armistead, Jason wrote: I know there is the Unofficial #qemu Wiki on http://kidsquid.com/cgi-bin/moin.cgi/ How about an official (rather than unofficial) QEMU Wiki where we can ALL contribute to the documentation process ? I think there are lots of things the collective geniuses on this list could contribute - and a wiki is often a lot nicer way to summarize knowledge than trawling through and endless number of mail archive postings. If people want to contribute to the documentation, they can. If they want to just lurk and watch selected pages, they can. If they want to add screen-shots, they can. If they want to ask questions about particular documentation, there is always the Discussion pages associated with each article. I've always been a big fan of MediaWik as used on Wikipedia for all these reasons. How about it ? You can already do this with the unofficial wiki. I don't see any difference between an official and an unofficial wiki other than its title. Lots of people contribute to the wiki. If you have something to say, just stick it in there. A wiki wouldn't be viable unless it was completely open. -- Infinite complexity begets infinite beauty. Infinite precision begets infinite perfection. ___ Qemu-devel mailing list Qemu-devel@nongnu.org http://lists.nongnu.org/mailman/listinfo/qemu-devel
[Qemu-devel] Have any ideas about how to detect whether a program is running inside QEMU?
hi everybody, For some security issues, I want to detect whether my Windows program is running inside qemu. Have any ideas? Best Regards, James Lau ___ Qemu-devel mailing list Qemu-devel@nongnu.org http://lists.nongnu.org/mailman/listinfo/qemu-devel
