Re: [QGIS-Developer] [Qgis-voting-members] [Qgis-psc] QGIS budget 2023 RFC

[Nyall Dawson via QGIS-Developer]

On Tue, 6 Dec 2022 at 03:18, Enrico Ferreguti  wrote:

>  I would enlarge core developers audience in any way with... lowering the 
> needed technical contribution skills.

While this sounds great in theory the reality is that this will never
happen, regardless of how much resources we throw at things. If
anything the required technical skills will only grow even *more*
complex moving forward. There's nothing implicitly wrong with that,
it's a sign of a mature project with a strong emphasis on performance
and stability.

Nyall



>
> Il giorno lun 5 dic 2022 alle ore 11:27 Vincent Picavet (ml) via 
> QGIS-Developer  ha scritto:
>>
>> Hi Andreas, all,
>>
>> On 24/11/2022 16:09, Andreas Neumann wrote:
>> [..]
>> > We did not really discuss the hourly rates at the budget meeting.
>> > From 2021 to 2022 we raised the hourly dev rates from 100 to 110 -
>> > and the hourly documentation rates from 40 to 44. I know that both
>> > rates are low. We can discuss raising them again.
>>
>> My question was general, and actually includes all prices. I have no 
>> definite opinion on this topic, as it can be complicated given the disparity 
>> of inflation according to what price we are talking about, and also 
>> geographically speaking.
>>
>> > The plan for the two positions was not to have direct employees of
>> > QGIS.ORG , but to use a proxy company, in our case
>> > Kartoza, to act as the employer. Also - our budget does not allow
>> > regular European or North-American salaries. With these limitations
>> > at hand, we can use Kartoza as a proxy to hire employees in certain
>> > parts of the world where the salaries we can offer can be attractive
>> > - and where they have talented people to work on some of our issues
>> > (sysadmin, documentation, etc.)
>>
>> I have very mixed feelings about this, and it raises lots of questions we 
>> definitely have to clear out before establishing any process.
>>
>> - Using a proxy company is very similar to me than having direct employees, 
>> if these positions have no clear limits of time and perimeter
>> - Using a proxy company instead of direct employees can be considered 
>> illegal according to local legislation. I do not know for Swiss law.
>> - How was Kartoza selected ? Was there an open process for other companies 
>> to apply ? Who decided and on what criteria ? The fact that the company 
>> owned by a member of QGIS PSC is selected is a big red flag for me, if the 
>> process is not fully transparent and fair for others.
>> - "our budget does not allow European or North-American salaries" : see 
>> below for the budget volume comments. But I have very mixed feelings about 
>> this statement : it sounds exactly like social dumping. I do not know what 
>> would be fair to select employees, and I recognize it to be a complex issue, 
>> but in some ways it does not feel right.
>>
>> > For the documentation part: Tim and Harrissou are involved in the
>> > selection process of the candidates.
>>
>> Is the process and selection committee documented somewhere ?
>>
>> > I agree that the grant budget with 10k is not very attractive. We
>> > also discussed skipping it for one year. Not sure what is better ...
>> >
>> > BTW: you can all help to find new sustaining members ... that would
>> > increase our budget and would allow us to pay better hourly rates
>> > ...
>> >
>> > I wish we had a larger budget at hand than the +/- 200k € we seem to
>> > be able to attract each year. From certain countries where we know we
>> > have a lot of QGIS users (France, Italy - just to name two of them)
>> > there are not a lot of sustaining members or donations other than
>> > from a few private persons and very small companies. Maybe companies
>> > like yours could help us to get in touch with the larger companies
>> > with a lot of QGIS users that could become new sustaining members ...
>> > Do you think that would be possible?
>>
>> First of all, complaining that our budget is too low is definitely not the 
>> way to consider the problem : QGIS.org budget will, by definition, 
>> **always** be too low compared to what we could need. Developing a software 
>> and managing a community is a boundless task and you can always find tasks 
>> and work packages to spend all the money you can imagine of.
>>
>> I agree that QGIS.org could attract more sustaining members. I just hope you 
>> are not accusing Oslandia of not doing our job of proselitysm, QGIS 
>> community support, communication and globally QGIS.org and QGIS software 
>> contributions. We do our part for sure.
>>
>> ... And this is not the point, as I said the question I raise is not how to 
>> increase our budget, since the exact same issues will araise with a larger 
>> budget.
>>
>> The questions are :
>> - A/ how do we use our existing budget for most important things to support
>> - B/ what our decisions processes are, where are they documented, and are 
>> they clear, transparent and fair
>>
>> As for A, one 

Re: [QGIS-Developer] [Qgis-psc] QGIS budget 2023 RFC

[Enrico Ferreguti via QGIS-Developer]

> As for A, one of my take is that seeing the grant budget disappear this
year is a pity, especially seeing other amounts dedicated to documentation
for example.

I agree with Vincent and Matteo and even if I understand the need of fund
bugfixing and qt6 migration I would strongly recommend to improve grants
budget as a consistent way to interact with community, furthermore I would
enlarge core developers audience in any way with targeted training and
social involvement and lowering the needed technical contribution skills. I
thank you all for sharing this interesting discussion.

Il giorno lun 5 dic 2022 alle ore 11:27 Vincent Picavet (ml) via
QGIS-Developer  ha scritto:

> Hi Andreas, all,
>
> On 24/11/2022 16:09, Andreas Neumann wrote:
> [..]
> > We did not really discuss the hourly rates at the budget meeting.
> > From 2021 to 2022 we raised the hourly dev rates from 100 to 110 -
> > and the hourly documentation rates from 40 to 44. I know that both
> > rates are low. We can discuss raising them again.
>
> My question was general, and actually includes all prices. I have no
> definite opinion on this topic, as it can be complicated given the
> disparity of inflation according to what price we are talking about, and
> also geographically speaking.
>
> > The plan for the two positions was not to have direct employees of
> > QGIS.ORG , but to use a proxy company, in our case
> > Kartoza, to act as the employer. Also - our budget does not allow
> > regular European or North-American salaries. With these limitations
> > at hand, we can use Kartoza as a proxy to hire employees in certain
> > parts of the world where the salaries we can offer can be attractive
> > - and where they have talented people to work on some of our issues
> > (sysadmin, documentation, etc.)
>
> I have very mixed feelings about this, and it raises lots of questions we
> definitely have to clear out before establishing any process.
>
> - Using a proxy company is very similar to me than having direct
> employees, if these positions have no clear limits of time and perimeter
> - Using a proxy company instead of direct employees can be considered
> illegal according to local legislation. I do not know for Swiss law.
> - How was Kartoza selected ? Was there an open process for other companies
> to apply ? Who decided and on what criteria ? The fact that the company
> owned by a member of QGIS PSC is selected is a big red flag for me, if the
> process is not fully transparent and fair for others.
> - "our budget does not allow European or North-American salaries" : see
> below for the budget volume comments. But I have very mixed feelings about
> this statement : it sounds exactly like social dumping. I do not know what
> would be fair to select employees, and I recognize it to be a complex
> issue, but in some ways it does not feel right.
>
> > For the documentation part: Tim and Harrissou are involved in the
> > selection process of the candidates.
>
> Is the process and selection committee documented somewhere ?
>
> > I agree that the grant budget with 10k is not very attractive. We
> > also discussed skipping it for one year. Not sure what is better ...
> >
> > BTW: you can all help to find new sustaining members ... that would
> > increase our budget and would allow us to pay better hourly rates
> > ...
> >
> > I wish we had a larger budget at hand than the +/- 200k € we seem to
> > be able to attract each year. From certain countries where we know we
> > have a lot of QGIS users (France, Italy - just to name two of them)
> > there are not a lot of sustaining members or donations other than
> > from a few private persons and very small companies. Maybe companies
> > like yours could help us to get in touch with the larger companies
> > with a lot of QGIS users that could become new sustaining members ...
> > Do you think that would be possible?
>
> First of all, complaining that our budget is too low is definitely not the
> way to consider the problem : QGIS.org budget will, by definition,
> **always** be too low compared to what we could need. Developing a software
> and managing a community is a boundless task and you can always find tasks
> and work packages to spend all the money you can imagine of.
>
> I agree that QGIS.org could attract more sustaining members. I just hope
> you are not accusing Oslandia of not doing our job of proselitysm, QGIS
> community support, communication and globally QGIS.org and QGIS software
> contributions. We do our part for sure.
>
> ... And this is not the point, as I said the question I raise is not how
> to increase our budget, since the exact same issues will araise with a
> larger budget.
>
> The questions are :
> - A/ how do we use our existing budget for most important things to support
> - B/ what our decisions processes are, where are they documented, and are
> they clear, transparent and fair
>
> As for A, one of my take is that seeing the grant budget disappear this
> 

[QGIS-Developer] Using QgsProfilePlotRenderer in processing algorithm

[Simon Gröchenig via QGIS-Developer]

Hi all,

I have created a simple python script that generates and renders a 
series of profile plots. It works fine. Now I would like to transform 
the script into a processing algorithm in order to create a better UX 
and to allow users to set some parameters (e.g. plot distance in 
exported image).


Unfortunately, the generation process (in the background thread) never 
finishes within the processing algorithm. It works fine in the simple 
python script (without processing algorithm).


You can find the code here: 
https://mega.nz/folder/Kn51yY7K#5HYICPUaqOIQf-oQykSx7w


Is there an issue with the background threads (algorithm thread vs. plot 
generation thread)?


Best regards
Simon___
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[QGIS-Developer] Expression to sort by multiple fields

[DelazJ via QGIS-Developer]

Hi QGISers,

I struggled and failed to find a way to use QGIS expressions functions in
order to select features based on sorting on different fields. I played
with aggregates, arrays, maps but couldn't find how to control sort order
(and imbricate it). I finally generated virtual layers to do the work but
would really love to select and not extract.
The need in SQL is something like:

select somefields, afield, st_length(geometry) as longueur, geometry
from mylayer
where longueur < 10*order by afield desc, longueur asc*
limit 5

Any help would be more than welcome.
Thanks in advance

Kind regards,
Harrissou
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Re: [QGIS-Developer] [Qgis-psc] QGIS budget 2023 RFC

[Vincent Picavet (ml) via QGIS-Developer]

Hi Andreas, all,

On 24/11/2022 16:09, Andreas Neumann wrote:
[..]

We did not really discuss the hourly rates at the budget meeting.
From 2021 to 2022 we raised the hourly dev rates from 100 to 110 -
and the hourly documentation rates from 40 to 44. I know that both
rates are low. We can discuss raising them again.


My question was general, and actually includes all prices. I have no definite 
opinion on this topic, as it can be complicated given the disparity of 
inflation according to what price we are talking about, and also geographically 
speaking.


The plan for the two positions was not to have direct employees of
QGIS.ORG , but to use a proxy company, in our case
Kartoza, to act as the employer. Also - our budget does not allow
regular European or North-American salaries. With these limitations
at hand, we can use Kartoza as a proxy to hire employees in certain
parts of the world where the salaries we can offer can be attractive
- and where they have talented people to work on some of our issues
(sysadmin, documentation, etc.)


I have very mixed feelings about this, and it raises lots of questions we 
definitely have to clear out before establishing any process.

- Using a proxy company is very similar to me than having direct employees, if 
these positions have no clear limits of time and perimeter
- Using a proxy company instead of direct employees can be considered illegal 
according to local legislation. I do not know for Swiss law.
- How was Kartoza selected ? Was there an open process for other companies to 
apply ? Who decided and on what criteria ? The fact that the company owned by a 
member of QGIS PSC is selected is a big red flag for me, if the process is not 
fully transparent and fair for others.
- "our budget does not allow European or North-American salaries" : see below 
for the budget volume comments. But I have very mixed feelings about this statement : it 
sounds exactly like social dumping. I do not know what would be fair to select employees, 
and I recognize it to be a complex issue, but in some ways it does not feel right.
 

For the documentation part: Tim and Harrissou are involved in the
selection process of the candidates.


Is the process and selection committee documented somewhere ?


I agree that the grant budget with 10k is not very attractive. We
also discussed skipping it for one year. Not sure what is better ...

BTW: you can all help to find new sustaining members ... that would
increase our budget and would allow us to pay better hourly rates
...

I wish we had a larger budget at hand than the +/- 200k € we seem to
be able to attract each year. From certain countries where we know we
have a lot of QGIS users (France, Italy - just to name two of them)
there are not a lot of sustaining members or donations other than
from a few private persons and very small companies. Maybe companies
like yours could help us to get in touch with the larger companies
with a lot of QGIS users that could become new sustaining members ...
Do you think that would be possible?


First of all, complaining that our budget is too low is definitely not the way 
to consider the problem : QGIS.org budget will, by definition, **always** be 
too low compared to what we could need. Developing a software and managing a 
community is a boundless task and you can always find tasks and work packages 
to spend all the money you can imagine of.

I agree that QGIS.org could attract more sustaining members. I just hope you 
are not accusing Oslandia of not doing our job of proselitysm, QGIS community 
support, communication and globally QGIS.org and QGIS software contributions. 
We do our part for sure.

... And this is not the point, as I said the question I raise is not how to 
increase our budget, since the exact same issues will araise with a larger 
budget.

The questions are :
- A/ how do we use our existing budget for most important things to support
- B/ what our decisions processes are, where are they documented, and are they 
clear, transparent and fair

As for A, one of my take is that seeing the grant budget disappear this year is 
a pity, especially seeing other amounts dedicated to documentation for example.

As for B, I consider that there is a lot of progress to do to make recent 
decisions and actions clean and trustworthy.

Should we want to attract new sustaining members giving money to QGIS.org, we 
must have an exemplary behaviour in how we decide how to use this money.

Vincent




Andreas

On Thu, 24 Nov 2022 at 15:05, Vincent Picavet (ml) via QGIS-Developer
mailto:qgis-developer@lists.osgeo.org>> wrote:

Hello,

Thanks for sharing the budget with the community.

A few questions / remarks : - in most countries, we can see a general
inflation, having consequences on every kind of costs ( hosting,
salaries…). Did you take this context into account when preparing the
budget, especially when basing planned 2023 costs on actual 2022
costs ? - the cut on Grant 

Re: [QGIS-Developer] QGIS expression to get internal ID of a feature in a related layer

[Andreas Neumann via QGIS-Developer]

Hi,

I created a feature request at https://github.com/qgis/QGIS/issues/51116

The parameters need to be discussed ...

Andreas

On 2022-12-05 00:54, Nyall Dawson wrote:


On Wed, 30 Nov 2022 at 00:06, Andreas Neumann via QGIS-Developer
 wrote:


Hi,

I am looking for a way to find out the internal id of a related layer 
with a QGIS expression.


@id and $id only work directly on the feature of the source layer, but 
not on related layers.


attributes(
get_feature(
'Other Related Layer',
't_id',
fkey_value
)
)

doesn't contain the internal id of the other layer ...

Any ideas how to get access to internal ids of other layers?


This is indeed a silly limitation -- we need a "feature_id(...)"
expression function!

Can you file a feature request for this?

Nyall


Thank you and greetings,

Andreas

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