Re: [Qgis-developer] Plans for next QGIS releases

[Jürgen E . Fischer]

Hi Idan,

On Sun, 02. Apr 2017 at 13:55:08 +0300, Idan Miara wrote:
> Shouldn't it say PR in the following line?
> LTR 2.18.7 2.14.15 19.05.2017 20 4

No, starting with 2.18.7 2.18 will be tagged LTR.  Not changing much otherwise
as 2.18 will continue to be the LR.


Jürgen

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Re: [Qgis-developer] Plans for next QGIS releases

[DelazJ]

Hi,
Yes, good catch. Fixed in
https://github.com/qgis/QGIS-Website/commit/e38b8c09d51f6ba4d082fb4063f9b33ab7cbf874

Thanks Idan,
Harrissou

2017-04-02 12:55 GMT+02:00 Idan Miara :

> Hi,
>
> Shouldn't it say PR in the following line?
> LTR 2.18.7 2.14.15 19.05.2017 20 4
>
> On 1 April 2017 at 12:11, Jürgen E. Fischer  wrote:
>
>> Hi Harrissou,
>>
>> On Fri, 31. Mar 2017 at 21:53:33 +0200, DelazJ wrote:
>> > #. 3.0 will be a LTR (actually from 3.0.9 - nine months after first
>> > release?)
>>
>> No, 3.2.0 will be the LTR.
>>
>>
>> > #. 3.0 will be LTR for *4 months*, replaced by 3.2
>>
>> There's a four month overlap where a LTR is also the current LR.  For
>> that time
>> it doesn't replace the old release in the LTR repositories.
>>
>> 3.0 in the LTR column is indeed wrong - that should have been more 2.18
>> point
>> releases - fixed.
>>
>> I also switched the LTR and LR columns as the event refers primarily to
>> the LR
>> column (maybe a source of confusion).
>>
>>
>> > - I fail to understand the reason why once 3.0 is released, we continue
>> to
>> >   break our "four-months release" policy.
>>
>> That's what we discussed - more time to stablize 3.x before it goes LTR.
>>
>>
>> Jürgen
>>
>> --
>> Jürgen E. Fischer   norBIT GmbH Tel.
>> +49-4931-918175-31
>> Dipl.-Inf. (FH) Rheinstraße 13  Fax.
>> +49-4931-918175-50
>> Software Engineer   D-26506 Norden
>> http://www.norbit.de
>> QGIS release manager (PSC)  GermanyIRC: jef on
>> FreeNode
>>
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Re: [Qgis-developer] Plans for next QGIS releases

[Idan Miara]

Hi,

Shouldn't it say PR in the following line?
LTR 2.18.7 2.14.15 19.05.2017 20 4

On 1 April 2017 at 12:11, Jürgen E. Fischer  wrote:

> Hi Harrissou,
>
> On Fri, 31. Mar 2017 at 21:53:33 +0200, DelazJ wrote:
> > #. 3.0 will be a LTR (actually from 3.0.9 - nine months after first
> > release?)
>
> No, 3.2.0 will be the LTR.
>
>
> > #. 3.0 will be LTR for *4 months*, replaced by 3.2
>
> There's a four month overlap where a LTR is also the current LR.  For that
> time
> it doesn't replace the old release in the LTR repositories.
>
> 3.0 in the LTR column is indeed wrong - that should have been more 2.18
> point
> releases - fixed.
>
> I also switched the LTR and LR columns as the event refers primarily to
> the LR
> column (maybe a source of confusion).
>
>
> > - I fail to understand the reason why once 3.0 is released, we continue
> to
> >   break our "four-months release" policy.
>
> That's what we discussed - more time to stablize 3.x before it goes LTR.
>
>
> Jürgen
>
> --
> Jürgen E. Fischer   norBIT GmbH Tel.
> +49-4931-918175-31
> Dipl.-Inf. (FH) Rheinstraße 13  Fax.
> +49-4931-918175-50
> Software Engineer   D-26506 Norden
> http://www.norbit.de
> QGIS release manager (PSC)  GermanyIRC: jef on FreeNode
>
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Re: [Qgis-developer] Plans for next QGIS releases

[DelazJ]

Hi Jürgen,
Thanks for the fix and explanation.

Regards,
Harrissou

Le samedi 1 avril 2017, Jürgen E. Fischer  a écrit :
> Hi Harrissou,
>
> On Fri, 31. Mar 2017 at 21:53:33 +0200, DelazJ wrote:
>> #. 3.0 will be a LTR (actually from 3.0.9 - nine months after first
>> release?)
>
> No, 3.2.0 will be the LTR.
>
>
>> #. 3.0 will be LTR for *4 months*, replaced by 3.2
>
> There's a four month overlap where a LTR is also the current LR.  For
that time
> it doesn't replace the old release in the LTR repositories.
>
> 3.0 in the LTR column is indeed wrong - that should have been more 2.18
point
> releases - fixed.
>
> I also switched the LTR and LR columns as the event refers primarily to
the LR
> column (maybe a source of confusion).
>
>
>> - I fail to understand the reason why once 3.0 is released, we continue
to
>>   break our "four-months release" policy.
>
> That's what we discussed - more time to stablize 3.x before it goes LTR.
>
>
> Jürgen
>
> --
> Jürgen E. Fischer   norBIT GmbH Tel.
+49-4931-918175-31
> Dipl.-Inf. (FH) Rheinstraße 13  Fax.
+49-4931-918175-50
> Software Engineer   D-26506 Norden
http://www.norbit.de
> QGIS release manager (PSC)  GermanyIRC: jef on
FreeNode
>
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Re: [Qgis-developer] Plans for next QGIS releases

[DelazJ]

Hi,

I came across reading QGIS release schedule at
http://qgis.org/en/site/getinvolved/development/roadmap.
html#release-schedule and wonder if that really reflects the decision that
was taken. The online roadmap exposed that:

#. 3.0 will be a LTR (actually from 3.0.9 - nine months after first
release?)
#. 3.0 will be LTR for *4 months*, replaced by 3.2
#. 3.2 will be released 9 months after 3.0 (not a multiple of 4 months but
I guess it was about rescaling release dates)

My thoughts/questions:
- I wasn't aware that 3.0 was ever supposed to be LTR. Is that the plan?
- I fail to understand the reason why once 3.0 is released, we continue to
break our "four-months release" policy. Any reason to not release 3.2 four
months after 3.0.0 and push it as LTR four months later (as usual)? This is
what I understood from this discussion but maybe i missed some points... Or
are there mistakes in the online doc ?

Btw, great idea to make distinct columns for LTR and regular releases in
the table. It really eases the reading (and remark mistakes?)...

Regards,
Harrissou

2017-02-22 18:47 GMT+01:00 Borys Jurgiel :

> Matthias Kuhn wrote:
> > I think having 2.18.x and 3.2.x available in parallel for an extended
> > period is a good thing (...) but with a clear deadline for 2.18 so we are
> > not stuck in the 2 release series forever.
>
> and Jürgen E. Fischer wrote:
> > When a new LTR is released we have a period where the latest releases is
> > also the LTR release.  While that lasts the old LTR is still used to feed
> > the LTR and the new LTR feeds the latest release package repository.
>
> Ah great! It solves all problems.
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Re: [Qgis-developer] Plans for next QGIS releases

[Borys Jurgiel]

Matthias Kuhn wrote:
> I think having 2.18.x and 3.2.x available in parallel for an extended
> period is a good thing (...) but with a clear deadline for 2.18 so we are
> not stuck in the 2 release series forever.

and Jürgen E. Fischer wrote:
> When a new LTR is released we have a period where the latest releases is
> also the LTR release.  While that lasts the old LTR is still used to feed
> the LTR and the new LTR feeds the latest release package repository.

Ah great! It solves all problems.
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Re: [Qgis-developer] Plans for next QGIS releases

[Jürgen E . Fischer]

Hi Harrissou,

On Wed, 22. Feb 2017 at 15:22:11 +0100, DelazJ wrote:
> I think there usually (ok! it happens only once) is an overlap between two
> LT releases: 2.8 was maintained few months after 2.14 (I think it was
> stopped when 2.16 was released).

Yes.

We build for two package repositories.   One is fed by the long term release
branch and the other for the latest release.   When a new LTR is released we
have a period where the latest releases is also the LTR release.  While that
lasts the old LTR is still used to feed the LTR and the new LTR feeds the
latest release package repository. 

Only when the following release goes to the latest release repositories, the
new LTR actually enters the LTR repositories.

So we never have to maintain more than two release branches.


Jürgen

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Dipl.-Inf. (FH) Rheinstraße 13  Fax. +49-4931-918175-50
Software Engineer   D-26506 Norden http://www.norbit.de
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Re: [Qgis-developer] Plans for next QGIS releases

[Matthias Kuhn]

Personally I would like to see a 3.x release become LTR as soon as
possible. 3.0 should be skipped because despite it's incredibly high
stability there could potentially still be problems. So the next in line
is 3.2.

I think having 2.18.x and 3.2.x available in parallel for an extended
period is a good thing. The 3.x transition will take some time. So let's
give a nice and long enough grace period to end users and orgs but with
a clear deadline for 2.18 so we are not stuck in the 2 release series
forever.

Matthias

On 02/22/2017 03:57 PM, Borys Jurgiel wrote:
> It's an option, too. The question is which one is supposed to be more mature, 
> stable and polished: 3.2.5 or 3.4.0. Anyway, in both cases the lifetime of 
> 2.18 LTR seems to be clear now.
> 
> Dnia środa, 22 lutego 2017 15:22:11 DelazJ pisze:
>> Hi,
>>
>> I think there usually (ok! it happens only once) is an overlap between two
>> LT releases: 2.8 was maintained few months after 2.14 (I think it was
>> stopped when 2.16 was released) -
>> http://qgis.org/en/site/getinvolved/development/roadmap.html
>> So following that logic, 3.2 would be released in january and replace 2.18
>> in june as LTR (with the release of 3.4)
>>
>> Harrissou
> 
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Re: [Qgis-developer] Plans for next QGIS releases

[Borys Jurgiel]

It's an option, too. The question is which one is supposed to be more mature, 
stable and polished: 3.2.5 or 3.4.0. Anyway, in both cases the lifetime of 
2.18 LTR seems to be clear now.

Dnia środa, 22 lutego 2017 15:22:11 DelazJ pisze:
> Hi,
> 
> I think there usually (ok! it happens only once) is an overlap between two
> LT releases: 2.8 was maintained few months after 2.14 (I think it was
> stopped when 2.16 was released) -
> http://qgis.org/en/site/getinvolved/development/roadmap.html
> So following that logic, 3.2 would be released in january and replace 2.18
> in june as LTR (with the release of 3.4)
> 
> Harrissou

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Re: [Qgis-developer] Plans for next QGIS releases

[DelazJ]

Hi,

I think there usually (ok! it happens only once) is an overlap between two
LT releases: 2.8 was maintained few months after 2.14 (I think it was
stopped when 2.16 was released) -
http://qgis.org/en/site/getinvolved/development/roadmap.html
So following that logic, 3.2 would be released in january and replace 2.18
in june as LTR (with the release of 3.4)

Harrissou

2017-02-22 15:19 GMT+01:00 Borys Jurgiel :

> Dnia środa, 22 lutego 2017 14:45:07 Borys Jurgiel pisze:
> > Other options would be: retire 2.18 LTR in January 2018 or postpone 3.2
> > until June 2018. Both look unacceptable for me.
>
> I mean to* me of course - they look to me, not 'unacceptable for me'. I'm
> sorry :)
>
> Regards,
> Borys
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Re: [Qgis-developer] Plans for next QGIS releases

[Borys Jurgiel]

Dnia środa, 22 lutego 2017 14:45:07 Borys Jurgiel pisze:
> Other options would be: retire 2.18 LTR in January 2018 or postpone 3.2
> until June 2018. Both look unacceptable for me.

I mean to* me of course - they look to me, not 'unacceptable for me'. I'm 
sorry :)

Regards,
Borys
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Re: [Qgis-developer] Plans for next QGIS releases

[Borys Jurgiel]

Tim Sutton said:

> Personally I was hoping for 2.18 LTR to last from June 2017 to June 2018
> and then releasing 3.2 In June 2018.
> 
> * retire 2.14 in June 2017
> * 2.18 becomes LTR from June 2017 to ​**​*June*** ​2018
> * 3.0 feature freeze in July 2017
> * release 3.0 in Sept 2017
> * release 3.2 as next LTR in release 3.0 + 4 Months (eta June 2018).

...and Paolo said:

> sorry, I think this should be
> * release 3.2 as next LTR in release 3.0 + 4 Months (eta Jan 2018).

What about making 3.2 a normal editon and then release 3.4 LTR? So:

* 2.18 becomes LTR from June 2017 to June ​2018
* release 3.0 in Sept 2017
* release 3.2 in January 2018
* release 3.4 LTR in June 2018

Other options would be: retire 2.18 LTR in January 2018 or postpone 3.2 until 
June 2018. Both look unacceptable for me. Who would deploy an LTR for a half 
an year? With dropped 2.14 support and 3.0 too young we'll be left without any 
stable version. And postponing the 3.2 release would only restrain the process 
of testing and maturation of QGIS 3.

Regards,

Borys
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Re: [Qgis-developer] Plans for next QGIS releases

[Tim Sutton]

Hi

On Tue, Feb 21, 2017 at 6:38 PM, Borys Jurgiel 
wrote:

> Hi,
>
> Dnia wtorek, 21 lutego 2017 14:49:14 Tim Sutton pisze:
> > ​Just to confirm what Paolo said, the issue was raised by Paolo at our
> PSC
> > meeting 2 months ago (all meeting minutes are publicly available at
> > https://github.com/qgis/qgis/wiki#psc-meeting-minutes)
>
> Unfortunately the last meeting is not available yet... :)
>

​Ah thanks for pointing that out - it is there now​



>
> I don't get the idea of making the 2.18 a LTR release just for half a year.
> Or are we going to support it longer, in parallel with the 3.2 LTR? Or
> maybe
> nobody believes the 3.2 will be stable enough to make it a LTR? :)
>

Personally I was hoping for 2.18 LTR to last from June 2017 to June 2018
and then releasing 3.2 In June 2018.

* retire 2.14 in June 2017
* 2.18 becomes LTR from June 2017 to
​**​
​*June*** ​
2018
* 3.0 feature freeze in July 2017
* release 3.0 in Sept 2017
* release 3.2 as next LTR in release 3.0 + 4 Months (eta June 2018).​

​Regards

Tim​




>
> Regards,
> Borys
>



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Re: [Qgis-developer] Plans for next QGIS releases

[Borys Jurgiel]

Hi,

Dnia wtorek, 21 lutego 2017 14:49:14 Tim Sutton pisze:
> ​Just to confirm what Paolo said, the issue was raised by Paolo at our PSC
> meeting 2 months ago (all meeting minutes are publicly available at
> https://github.com/qgis/qgis/wiki#psc-meeting-minutes)

Unfortunately the last meeting is not available yet... :)

I don't get the idea of making the 2.18 a LTR release just for half a year. 
Or are we going to support it longer, in parallel with the 3.2 LTR? Or maybe 
nobody believes the 3.2 will be stable enough to make it a LTR? :)

Regards,
Borys
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Re: [Qgis-developer] Plans for next QGIS releases

[Tim Sutton]

Hi


On Tue, Feb 21, 2017 at 10:25 AM, Vincent Picavet (ml) <
vincent...@oslandia.com> wrote:

> Hi Paolo,
>
> Please excuse me if I missed something, but I am quite surprised, not by
> the decisions themselves, but the process of these decisions.
>
> I have seen no call for meeting, no message to the list to gather
> advices, no mention to voting members neither of this IRC meeting
> happening.
> The topic is really important and has deep consequences for all of our
> users, funders, developers. The least we can do is ask them for their
> advice and feedback. This kind of autocratic top-bottom decisions is
> definitely not the way I would expect the QGIS community to behave.
>
> Sorry for the rant, and again I may have missed something ( but I
> re-checked all emails from PSC, dev and users ML, my #qgis logs, and saw
> nothing). Let's keep the community involved in decision processes and
> take care about how we communicate together, please.
>


​Just to confirm what Paolo said, the issue was raised by Paolo at our PSC
meeting 2 months ago (all meeting minutes are publicly available at
https://github.com/qgis/qgis/wiki#psc-meeting-minutes), and the suggested
approach was:

* form a small group of core developers to come up with a viable proposal
for 3.x plans - Done
* present the proposal to the mailing list for further discussion ​- Done
* based on feedback from the discussion publicise the plan further on the
QGIS blog - (still to be done)

There are many viable responses including:

* agreeing with the proposal here on the mailing list
* disagreeing and providing substantive reasons why and a clear alternative
* proposing that the issue goes to a voting member vote if there are
conflicting alternatives

I think this is all pretty clear and transparent - and I think it is better
to start the discussion with a viable solution rather than an extremely
broad and open ended question like 'how shall we handle the release?' as a
starting point -  which is going to lead to a jumbled flow of hard to
manage proposals.

So to summarize, we are doing out best to keep all communications in the
project open and transparent, if there are substantive suggestions about
how to improve things, just share them here and we will do our best to
incorporate them.


Regards

Tim






>
> Vincent
>
> On 20/02/2017 11:17, Paolo Cavallini wrote:
> > Hi all,
> > during a fast and productive IRC meeting today we have come out with a
> > proposal for the management of current and future versions of QGIS:
> >
> > * retire 2.14 in June 2017
> > * 2.18 becomes LTR from June 2017 to 2018
> > * 3.0 feature freeze in July 2017
> > * release 3.0 in Sept 2017
> > * release 3.2 as next LTR in release 3.0 + 4 Months (eta June 2018).
> >
> > Of course we know that some of you will have different preferences and
> > constraints, but we believe this is the best compromise we can reach
> > now. Please let us know if you have strong opposition to this, or good
> > argument to change. Nothing is carved in stone, but it will be good to
> > give our users and devs a perspective on what they can expect.
> >
> > All the best.
> >
>
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Re: [Qgis-developer] Plans for next QGIS releases

[Paolo Cavallini]

Il 21/02/2017 09:25, Vincent Picavet (ml) ha scritto:

> The topic is really important and has deep consequences for all of our
> users, funders, developers. The least we can do is ask them for their
> advice and feedback.

Hi Vincent,
we had a quick meeting among people who is doing most of the work. What
I communicated seemed the best option, and we submitted it to the list
exactly to have a more general discussion and feedback. So, if you or
anybody have better suggestions, let's discuss it.
All the best.

-- 
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Re: [Qgis-developer] Plans for next QGIS releases

[Vincent Picavet (ml)]

Hi Paolo,

Please excuse me if I missed something, but I am quite surprised, not by
the decisions themselves, but the process of these decisions.

I have seen no call for meeting, no message to the list to gather
advices, no mention to voting members neither of this IRC meeting happening.
The topic is really important and has deep consequences for all of our
users, funders, developers. The least we can do is ask them for their
advice and feedback. This kind of autocratic top-bottom decisions is
definitely not the way I would expect the QGIS community to behave.

Sorry for the rant, and again I may have missed something ( but I
re-checked all emails from PSC, dev and users ML, my #qgis logs, and saw
nothing). Let's keep the community involved in decision processes and
take care about how we communicate together, please.

Vincent

On 20/02/2017 11:17, Paolo Cavallini wrote:
> Hi all,
> during a fast and productive IRC meeting today we have come out with a
> proposal for the management of current and future versions of QGIS:
> 
> * retire 2.14 in June 2017
> * 2.18 becomes LTR from June 2017 to 2018
> * 3.0 feature freeze in July 2017
> * release 3.0 in Sept 2017
> * release 3.2 as next LTR in release 3.0 + 4 Months (eta June 2018).
> 
> Of course we know that some of you will have different preferences and
> constraints, but we believe this is the best compromise we can reach
> now. Please let us know if you have strong opposition to this, or good
> argument to change. Nothing is carved in stone, but it will be good to
> give our users and devs a perspective on what they can expect.
> 
> All the best.
> 

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Re: [Qgis-developer] Plans for next QGIS releases

[Paolo Cavallini]

Hi,

Il 20/02/2017 11:59, DelazJ ha scritto:
> * retire 2.14 in June 2017
> * 2.18 becomes LTR from June 2017 to 2018
> * 3.0 feature freeze in July 2017
> * release 3.0 in Sept 2017
> * release 3.2 as next LTR in release 3.0 + 4 Months (eta June 2018).
> 
> You mean 3.2 released in january/february 2018, becomes LTR in june
> 2018, right?

sorry, I think this should be

* release 3.2 as next LTR in release 3.0 + 4 Months (eta Jan 2018).

all the best
-- 
Paolo Cavallini - www.faunalia.eu
QGIS & PostGIS courses: http://www.faunalia.eu/training.html
https://www.google.com/trends/explore?date=all=IT=qgis,arcgis
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Re: [Qgis-developer] Plans for next QGIS releases

[DelazJ]

Hi Paolo (and all)

2017-02-20 11:17 GMT+01:00 Paolo Cavallini :

> Hi all,
> during a fast and productive IRC meeting today we have come out with a
> proposal for the management of current and future versions of QGIS:
>
> Thanks to you


> * retire 2.14 in June 2017
> * 2.18 becomes LTR from June 2017 to 2018
> * 3.0 feature freeze in July 2017
> * release 3.0 in Sept 2017
> * release 3.2 as next LTR in release 3.0 + 4 Months (eta June 2018).
>
> You mean 3.2 released in january/february 2018, becomes LTR in june 2018,
right?

Harrissou


> Of course we know that some of you will have different preferences and
> constraints, but we believe this is the best compromise we can reach
> now. Please let us know if you have strong opposition to this, or good
> argument to change. Nothing is carved in stone, but it will be good to
> give our users and devs a perspective on what they can expect.
>
> All the best.
> --
> Paolo Cavallini - www.faunalia.eu
> QGIS & PostGIS courses: http://www.faunalia.eu/training.html
> https://www.google.com/trends/explore?date=all=IT=qgis,arcgis
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