Re: [Qgis-user] [Qgis-developer] Shortcut changes in QGIS; call for opinions
Hi all, I would prefer to have only one shortcut - not a parallel d and ctrl-d with different behavious. This sounds confusing to me. As long as we don't have an undo option I would like to have the confirmation question always when removing one or more layers. It is not something that people do all the time, so it wouldn't be annoying. I also accidentally removed layers with right-click and there was no confirmation that stopped me. So I would prefer to have the confirmation when removing layers in all cases. Andreas Am 29.11.2013 07:56, schrieb Richard Duivenvoorde: On 28-11-13 23:19, Nathan Woodrow wrote: Given that adding/removing a complex layer can be expensive and there is no undo I would suggest to have a single key shortcut (D) with confirm and a modified one without (Ctrl-D). You want to avoid the user doing something dangerous and in this case that is removing a layer layer without undo. Personally I do not like to add more then one key for the same action, keep stuff simple. Although we could make confirmation an option, the number of options in the options dialogs are also growing and growing. I've already a lot of options to tweak for a new user to make it the best way for him/her. If we do a a first time dialog with a 'do not ask me anymore', that is nice, BUT it means that we have to put a way to undo that somewhere in a dialog/option too (while the logic code actually is easy: just an extra if/flag). Let's keep the interface as simple/logical/friendly as possible especially for non power users. Could we maybe create some poweruser options list (like gnome-settings or :config in firefox). In which we put this kind of flags? So no cluttering of the interface with 'do not ask' actions or more options in the options dialogs. But only a list of configs which you could use. Which in practice would actually be a Qtable with filter for QSettings of QGIS, in my case: ~/.config/QGIS/QGIS2.conf Regards, Richard Duivenvoorde ps Borys: we should not be afraid of some regression if it makes QGIS better in general :-) ___ Qgis-user mailing list Qgis-user@lists.osgeo.org http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/qgis-user ___ Qgis-user mailing list Qgis-user@lists.osgeo.org http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/qgis-user
Re: [Qgis-user] [Qgis-developer] Shortcut changes in QGIS; call for opinions
Dnia piątek, 29 listopada 2013 10:18:26 Andreas Neumann pisze: As long as we don't have an undo option I would like to have the confirmation question always when removing one or more layers. It is not something that people do all the time, so it wouldn't be annoying. It seems there are at least two opposite approaches in the TOC usage. When you do any kind of data processing, you have billions of intermediate layers you have to remove one by one, and it doesn't hurt you if you remove too much, as you don't care about their style. Furthermore, then you have to remove them all from disk and it also isn't especially dangerous if you only use reasonable versioning and backups. Also I guess every admin spending her/his days on browsing and fixing countless layers from her/his users might agree with me. But you're right, I didn't consider your point of view, and seems that one is definitely more popular. For the non-confirmation variant, I can see two solutions: 1. We already have a number of actions without default shortcut. Maybe we could create an action that is neither placed in any menu/toolbar nor assigned to any shortcut by default. Just waiting to be connected to a custom shortcut if anybody wants it. 2. If we don't want to make such orphan actions, let's drop it. I'll write a supersimple plugin for adding non-standard actions and release it if anyone interested. I also accidentally removed layers with right-click and there was no confirmation that stopped me. So I would prefer to have the confirmation when removing layers in all cases. Andreas Am 29.11.2013 07:56, schrieb Richard Duivenvoorde: On 28-11-13 23:19, Nathan Woodrow wrote: Given that adding/removing a complex layer can be expensive and there is no undo I would suggest to have a single key shortcut (D) with confirm and a modified one without (Ctrl-D). You want to avoid the user doing something dangerous and in this case that is removing a layer layer without undo. Personally I do not like to add more then one key for the same action, keep stuff simple. Although we could make confirmation an option, the number of options in the options dialogs are also growing and growing. I've already a lot of options to tweak for a new user to make it the best way for him/her. If we do a a first time dialog with a 'do not ask me anymore', that is nice, BUT it means that we have to put a way to undo that somewhere in a dialog/option too (while the logic code actually is easy: just an extra if/flag). Let's keep the interface as simple/logical/friendly as possible especially for non power users. Could we maybe create some poweruser options list (like gnome-settings or :config in firefox). In which we put this kind of flags? So no cluttering of the interface with 'do not ask' actions or more options in the options dialogs. But only a list of configs which you could use. Which in practice would actually be a Qtable with filter for QSettings of QGIS, in my case: ~/.config/QGIS/QGIS2.conf Regards, Richard Duivenvoorde ps Borys: we should not be afraid of some regression if it makes QGIS better in general :-) ___ Qgis-user mailing list Qgis-user@lists.osgeo.org http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/qgis-user ___ Qgis-user mailing list Qgis-user@lists.osgeo.org http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/qgis-user ___ Qgis-user mailing list Qgis-user@lists.osgeo.org http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/qgis-user
Re: [Qgis-user] [Qgis-developer] Shortcut changes in QGIS; call for opinions
By default, I would prefer that single normal keys (letters and number) would be used only to swap between tools. Anything that implies changings the project (adding, removing, duplicating,... layers\features\nodes...) would use other keys (del, backspace, ...) or a combination with Ctrl\Shift\alt+, with or without confirmation. Why? Because it's quite easy for a user to think he is typing somewhere, and by mistake he is altering something that he might not even notice. There are sometimes that the confirmation is also informative (Delete 5 features?), if the confirmation is removed, this info should pass to non-blocking message. Alexandre Neto On Fri, Nov 29, 2013 at 9:18 AM, Andreas Neumann a.neum...@carto.netwrote: Hi all, I would prefer to have only one shortcut - not a parallel d and ctrl-d with different behavious. This sounds confusing to me. As long as we don't have an undo option I would like to have the confirmation question always when removing one or more layers. It is not something that people do all the time, so it wouldn't be annoying. I also accidentally removed layers with right-click and there was no confirmation that stopped me. So I would prefer to have the confirmation when removing layers in all cases. Andreas Am 29.11.2013 07:56, schrieb Richard Duivenvoorde: On 28-11-13 23:19, Nathan Woodrow wrote: Given that adding/removing a complex layer can be expensive and there is no undo I would suggest to have a single key shortcut (D) with confirm and a modified one without (Ctrl-D). You want to avoid the user doing something dangerous and in this case that is removing a layer layer without undo. Personally I do not like to add more then one key for the same action, keep stuff simple. Although we could make confirmation an option, the number of options in the options dialogs are also growing and growing. I've already a lot of options to tweak for a new user to make it the best way for him/her. If we do a a first time dialog with a 'do not ask me anymore', that is nice, BUT it means that we have to put a way to undo that somewhere in a dialog/option too (while the logic code actually is easy: just an extra if/flag). Let's keep the interface as simple/logical/friendly as possible especially for non power users. Could we maybe create some poweruser options list (like gnome-settings or :config in firefox). In which we put this kind of flags? So no cluttering of the interface with 'do not ask' actions or more options in the options dialogs. But only a list of configs which you could use. Which in practice would actually be a Qtable with filter for QSettings of QGIS, in my case: ~/.config/QGIS/QGIS2.conf Regards, Richard Duivenvoorde ps Borys: we should not be afraid of some regression if it makes QGIS better in general :-) ___ Qgis-user mailing list Qgis-user@lists.osgeo.org http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/qgis-user ___ Qgis-user mailing list Qgis-user@lists.osgeo.org http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/qgis-user ___ Qgis-user mailing list Qgis-user@lists.osgeo.org http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/qgis-user
Re: [Qgis-user] [Qgis-developer] Shortcut changes in QGIS; call for opinions
Dnia czwartek, 28 listopada 2013 15:11:30 A Huarte pisze: + Remove layer from legend - Ctrl+D with ask for confirmation. Now QGIS does not ask for confirmation. What about leaving the possibibility to remove the layer without confirmation with a separate shortcut? Actually the first what I do after a fresh install is changing Ctrl-D to simple D, as I couldn't imagine myself using two fingers for such basic action like layer removing ;)) The same with a dozen of other Ctrl-* shortcuts. And I believe I'm not the only one. Regards, B. ___ Qgis-user mailing list Qgis-user@lists.osgeo.org http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/qgis-user
Re: [Qgis-user] [Qgis-developer] Shortcut changes in QGIS; call for opinions
Given that adding/removing a complex layer can be expensive and there is no undo I would suggest to have a single key shortcut (D) with confirm and a modified one without (Ctrl-D). You want to avoid the user doing something dangerous and in this case that is removing a layer layer without undo. - Nathan On Fri, Nov 29, 2013 at 3:11 AM, Borys Jurgiel li...@borysjurgiel.plwrote: Dnia czwartek, 28 listopada 2013 15:11:30 A Huarte pisze: + Remove layer from legend - Ctrl+D with ask for confirmation. Now QGIS does not ask for confirmation. What about leaving the possibibility to remove the layer without confirmation with a separate shortcut? Actually the first what I do after a fresh install is changing Ctrl-D to simple D, as I couldn't imagine myself using two fingers for such basic action like layer removing ;)) The same with a dozen of other Ctrl-* shortcuts. And I believe I'm not the only one. Regards, B. ___ Qgis-user mailing list Qgis-user@lists.osgeo.org http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/qgis-user ___ Qgis-user mailing list Qgis-user@lists.osgeo.org http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/qgis-user
Re: [Qgis-user] [Qgis-developer] Shortcut changes in QGIS; call for opinions
Please don't understand me wrong - I don't insist to use single-key shortcuts by default. We had them in early versions and we decided to drop them, so it wouldn't make much sense to mess with them again. Personally I miss them, but It's no problem for me to change them. I only refered to the singe-key shortcut in order to underline the importance of this action and protest against removing the non-confirmation option completely ;) IMHO, it would be a painful regression. But it's no problem for me if it's not connected to any key by default. Dnia piątek, 29 listopada 2013 08:19:34 Nathan Woodrow pisze: Given that adding/removing a complex layer can be expensive and there is no undo I would suggest to have a single key shortcut (D) with confirm and a modified one without (Ctrl-D). You want to avoid the user doing something dangerous and in this case that is removing a layer layer without undo. - Nathan On Fri, Nov 29, 2013 at 3:11 AM, Borys Jurgiel li...@borysjurgiel.plwrote: Dnia czwartek, 28 listopada 2013 15:11:30 A Huarte pisze: + Remove layer from legend - Ctrl+D with ask for confirmation. Now QGIS does not ask for confirmation. What about leaving the possibibility to remove the layer without confirmation with a separate shortcut? Actually the first what I do after a fresh install is changing Ctrl-D to simple D, as I couldn't imagine myself using two fingers for such basic action like layer removing ;)) The same with a dozen of other Ctrl-* shortcuts. And I believe I'm not the only one. Regards, B. ___ Qgis-user mailing list Qgis-user@lists.osgeo.org http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/qgis-user ___ Qgis-user mailing list Qgis-user@lists.osgeo.org http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/qgis-user
Re: [Qgis-user] [Qgis-developer] Shortcut changes in QGIS; call for opinions
The idea of customizable keyboard shortcuts is great. Just let the user choose the definitions. On 11/28/2013 5:55 PM, Borys Jurgiel wrote: Please don't understand me wrong - I don't insist to use single-key shortcuts by default. We had them in early versions and we decided to drop them, so it wouldn't make much sense to mess with them again. Personally I miss them, but It's no problem for me to change them. I only refered to the singe-key shortcut in order to underline the importance of this action and protest against removing the non-confirmation option completely ;) IMHO, it would be a painful regression. But it's no problem for me if it's not connected to any key by default. Dnia piątek, 29 listopada 2013 08:19:34 Nathan Woodrow pisze: Given that adding/removing a complex layer can be expensive and there is no undo I would suggest to have a single key shortcut (D) with confirm and a modified one without (Ctrl-D). You want to avoid the user doing something dangerous and in this case that is removing a layer layer without undo. - Nathan On Fri, Nov 29, 2013 at 3:11 AM, Borys Jurgiel li...@borysjurgiel.plwrote: Dnia czwartek, 28 listopada 2013 15:11:30 A Huarte pisze: + Remove layer from legend - Ctrl+D with ask for confirmation. Now QGIS does not ask for confirmation. What about leaving the possibibility to remove the layer without confirmation with a separate shortcut? Actually the first what I do after a fresh install is changing Ctrl-D to simple D, as I couldn't imagine myself using two fingers for such basic action like layer removing ;)) The same with a dozen of other Ctrl-* shortcuts. And I believe I'm not the only one. Regards, B. ___ Qgis-user mailing list Qgis-user@lists.osgeo.org http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/qgis-user ___ Qgis-user mailing list Qgis-user@lists.osgeo.org http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/qgis-user ___ Qgis-user mailing list Qgis-user@lists.osgeo.org http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/qgis-user
Re: [Qgis-user] [Qgis-developer] Shortcut changes in QGIS; call for opinions
On 28-11-13 23:19, Nathan Woodrow wrote: Given that adding/removing a complex layer can be expensive and there is no undo I would suggest to have a single key shortcut (D) with confirm and a modified one without (Ctrl-D). You want to avoid the user doing something dangerous and in this case that is removing a layer layer without undo. Personally I do not like to add more then one key for the same action, keep stuff simple. Although we could make confirmation an option, the number of options in the options dialogs are also growing and growing. I've already a lot of options to tweak for a new user to make it the best way for him/her. If we do a a first time dialog with a 'do not ask me anymore', that is nice, BUT it means that we have to put a way to undo that somewhere in a dialog/option too (while the logic code actually is easy: just an extra if/flag). Let's keep the interface as simple/logical/friendly as possible especially for non power users. Could we maybe create some poweruser options list (like gnome-settings or :config in firefox). In which we put this kind of flags? So no cluttering of the interface with 'do not ask' actions or more options in the options dialogs. But only a list of configs which you could use. Which in practice would actually be a Qtable with filter for QSettings of QGIS, in my case: ~/.config/QGIS/QGIS2.conf Regards, Richard Duivenvoorde ps Borys: we should not be afraid of some regression if it makes QGIS better in general :-) ___ Qgis-user mailing list Qgis-user@lists.osgeo.org http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/qgis-user
