Re: [Qgis-user] Node Tool - proposing improvements
Hi, it's time for me to join the discussion. Sorry for being late. I have been involved in the new node tool stages along with others. First, I agree there are issues with the new node tool, and I think we can improve this a lot. I myself was not convinced at start it was a good change. I had to practice a lot, forget my old habits, to finally recognize this change opens a lot of new possibilities. I also asked at start if we coudn't keep the old edit mode, and add an optional 'CAD-like' one. ( Under the hood, the snapping engine does not allow that simply, and this would be really a UX nightmare, so I didn't fought) On the rationale and the process of changing the node tool, here is what I am aware of: - the old node tool did not allow the use of advanced digitizing constraints. - the old node tool did not allow multi layer editing - Users and contributors worked (an funded) a lot to propose enhancement to the node tool. A QGEP was opened https://github.com/qgis/QGIS-Enhancement-Proposals/issues/69. - A proof of concept plugin was even made. https://github.com/wonder-sk/CadNodeTool - In the project I was involved in, which mainly concern editing of networks (maybe the issue is here), we tested intensively the plugin, and asked for changes until it can be ported to C++ - We asked quite few times to many users to test the tool during the 3.0 pre release and "early adopters" stages. *We received almost no feedback then. * To sum-up things, I think that quite a lot of people have been involved here, the process has been transparent as much as possible.* Still the use cases that pushed this changes did not cover enough intensive digitizing of massive polygons enough*. Moreover users /contributors involved in this kind of use* did not raise their hand during 2.99, 3.0, 3.2 releases and feature freeze period. * So I think we just need to just recognize that *we miss some early testers* and *I would like that every company using QGIS just tries to identify some "early adopters" among their staff and dedicate some time to anticipate what in coming by letting them test, read the QEPS, and so on. * *And now, we just need to polish the vertex tool. * As far as my company is concerned, we were not satisfied by two points: - There was no way to select one particular polygon. Martin Dobias added just some minutes before the 3.0 release a "selected feature priority" as a workaround. *Many thanks Martin. * - Multi layer editing was the default behavior. This didn't play well with transaction group and triggers in database. My company funded and developped directly the "single layer vertex editor tool" to avoid that. We would be glad to help in polishing the tool, but someone needs to support this now I think. QGIS is user and developper driven. Release early, release fast process is just made for that. Best regards Régis Le mer. 28 nov. 2018 à 09:59, Antongeo76 a écrit : > Saber Razmjooei wrote > > I agree with Bernhard. Last time, it was done through QEP and no real > > feedback from users. The change to the node tool behaviour requires input > > from experienced users who do digitizing in their day-to-day works. I > > suggest to have the draft proposal as a blog post on QGIS.org to get more > > users involved in the way forward. > > > > Currently, there are some bugs and several contradicting preferences and > > requests. Any new changes to the current behaviour without consulting > with > > users will probably take us back to square one. > > > > Regards > > Saber > > > > On Tue, 27 Nov 2018, 06:51 Bernhard Ströbl > > > bernhard.stroebl@ > > > wrote: > > > > Hi Nyall, > >> > >> the reason to post this issue to the users' list was to get feedback > >> from users (and developers, too). I am totally aware that a QEP would be > >> appropriate but I doubt that many users are taking part in the > >> discussion there. > >> Anyways I am going to sum up the results and create a proposal later on, > >> will that do? > >> > >> Bernhard > >> > >> Am 27.11.2018 um 01:23 schrieb Nyall Dawson: > >> > On Mon, 26 Nov 2018 at 21:39, Bernhard Ströbl > > > bernhard.stroebl@ > > > > >> wrote: > >> >> > >> >> Dear all, > >> >> > >> >> I want to apologize, this has become an extremely long mail... > >> >> > >> >> A lot of discussion has been going on about the recent > >> reimplementation > >> >> of the node tool in QGIS 3. > >> > > >> > Hi Bernhard, > >> > > >> > Thanks for the detailed proposal, and for taking the time to come up > >> > with a constructive way forward here. > >> > > >> > Can I encourage you to copy the contents of your proposal across to > >> > the "QEP" repository: > >> > https://github.com/qgis/QGIS-Enhancement-Proposals/issues ? I think > >> > that's the correct channel to discuss these ideas so that the > >> > conversation is kept central and recorded permanently for reference. > >> > > >> > Nyall > >> > > >> >> > >> >> I see two reasons for this: > >> >> 1) The way the tool works is very
Re: [Qgis-user] Node Tool - proposing improvements
Saber Razmjooei wrote > I agree with Bernhard. Last time, it was done through QEP and no real > feedback from users. The change to the node tool behaviour requires input > from experienced users who do digitizing in their day-to-day works. I > suggest to have the draft proposal as a blog post on QGIS.org to get more > users involved in the way forward. > > Currently, there are some bugs and several contradicting preferences and > requests. Any new changes to the current behaviour without consulting with > users will probably take us back to square one. > > Regards > Saber > > On Tue, 27 Nov 2018, 06:51 Bernhard Ströbl > bernhard.stroebl@ > wrote: > > Hi Nyall, >> >> the reason to post this issue to the users' list was to get feedback >> from users (and developers, too). I am totally aware that a QEP would be >> appropriate but I doubt that many users are taking part in the >> discussion there. >> Anyways I am going to sum up the results and create a proposal later on, >> will that do? >> >> Bernhard >> >> Am 27.11.2018 um 01:23 schrieb Nyall Dawson: >> > On Mon, 26 Nov 2018 at 21:39, Bernhard Ströbl > bernhard.stroebl@ > >> wrote: >> >> >> >> Dear all, >> >> >> >> I want to apologize, this has become an extremely long mail... >> >> >> >> A lot of discussion has been going on about the recent >> reimplementation >> >> of the node tool in QGIS 3. >> > >> > Hi Bernhard, >> > >> > Thanks for the detailed proposal, and for taking the time to come up >> > with a constructive way forward here. >> > >> > Can I encourage you to copy the contents of your proposal across to >> > the "QEP" repository: >> > https://github.com/qgis/QGIS-Enhancement-Proposals/issues ? I think >> > that's the correct channel to discuss these ideas so that the >> > conversation is kept central and recorded permanently for reference. >> > >> > Nyall >> > >> >> >> >> I see two reasons for this: >> >> 1) The way the tool works is very different from the way it used to >> work >> >> in QGIS 2: >> >> a) in QGIS 2 it was choose feature - choose node(s) - do something >> >> whereas in QGIS 3 it is choose node - do something >> >> b) to move a node was click - (keep pressed) - move - release which >> was >> >> changed to click - release - move - click - release >> >> 2) There have been several bugs (as could be expected with a new >> >> implementation). These, however, were used to question the whole >> feature >> >> (most of the bugs are fixed now). >> >> >> >> Apart from bugs and people not being used to the new tool the critics >> >> concentrate around: >> >> 1) Probably most annoying: Mouse movements for choosing an existing >> >> vertex/adding a new vertex at the middle of the line are not well >> >> defined (especially important if features and its vertices are very >> >> close together). Imagine a polygon surrounded (or even worse: >> >> overlapped) by others, now try to click a particular vertex. You will >> >> fail if always the neighbouring polygon is highlighted. The workaround >> >> is to select the vertex with a mouse window while its feature is >> >> highlighted (or previously select the feature e.g. with the >> >> Select-Feature tool). For overlapping features it is even harder. >> >> 2) Highlighting effect is disturbing. >> >> 3) Adding a new vertex puts the new vertex on the mouse ready to be >> >> moved but user has no intention to move it but to leave it where it >> has >> >> been added (e.g. for topological reasons). >> >> 4) Vertices are not visible all the time but only when the feature is >> >> highlighted. This can make choosing a particular vertex difficult (see >> >> also 1). >> >> 5) It is easy to accidentally add or move a vertex because the most >> >> intuitive way of selecting something is to click it. But when you >> click >> >> a vertex/segment/cross while being highlighted you are already on your >> >> way to move it. >> >> 6) The behaviour is not consistent: >> >> a) If you want to move _one_ vertex, try to grab it when it is >> >> highlighted then move it; if you want to move several vertices, first >> >> select them, then click them, then move them. >> >> b) If you want to delete a vertex, try to grab it when it is >> >> highlighted; if you want to delete a segment, do not try to grab it >> when >> >> it is highlighted but select its two vertices and delete them. >> >> >> >> The German user group thinks that the points raised above are valid, >> >> even if all pending bugs are fixed. The node tool is still not perfect >> >> (it wasn't in QGIS 2 either). >> >> >> >> So we propose a change in the way the node tool works and would like >> to >> >> hear other users' s opinions. >> >> While the click - move - click change has valid reasons (use advance >> >> digitizing panel, pan or zoom map while moving vertices) the dropping >> of >> >> the first choose feature - then choose vertex workflow to immediately >> >> move a vertex has no real reasoning (except that it is less clicks in >> >> those cases
Re: [Qgis-user] Node Tool - proposing improvements
Bernhard Ströbl wrote > Dear all, > > I want to apologize, this has become an extremely long mail... > > A lot of discussion has been going on about the recent reimplementation > of the node tool in QGIS 3. > > I see two reasons for this: > 1) The way the tool works is very different from the way it used to work > in QGIS 2: > a) in QGIS 2 it was choose feature - choose node(s) - do something > whereas in QGIS 3 it is choose node - do something > b) to move a node was click - (keep pressed) - move - release which was > changed to click - release - move - click - release > 2) There have been several bugs (as could be expected with a new > implementation). These, however, were used to question the whole feature > (most of the bugs are fixed now). > > Apart from bugs and people not being used to the new tool the critics > concentrate around: > 1) Probably most annoying: Mouse movements for choosing an existing > vertex/adding a new vertex at the middle of the line are not well > defined (especially important if features and its vertices are very > close together). Imagine a polygon surrounded (or even worse: > overlapped) by others, now try to click a particular vertex. You will > fail if always the neighbouring polygon is highlighted. The workaround > is to select the vertex with a mouse window while its feature is > highlighted (or previously select the feature e.g. with the > Select-Feature tool). For overlapping features it is even harder. I agree with the perplexities; In fact the clicks have increased significantly compared to the version of QGIS2(where a user may add a vertex anywhere and not just in the middle of the segment...), this new behavior, during a day long editing session it translates into about 1-2 hours spent to moving vertices from the center of the segment to the desired position. > 2) Highlighting effect is disturbing. The vertex highlight is not only disturbing, but It seems Impossible to hold it for example when zooming in or out, then te user can easily lose the knowledge of the polygon he was editing (time spent to find the desired polygon) > 3) Adding a new vertex puts the new vertex on the mouse ready to be > moved but user has no intention to move it but to leave it where it has > been added (e.g. for topological reasons). this also translates into time spent trying to figure out how to reposition the vertex > 4) Vertices are not visible all the time but only when the feature is > highlighted. This can make choosing a particular vertex difficult (see > also 1). I would suggest going back to keeping the highlight fixed once the interested polygon has been selected with keeping the vertices always clearly visible until a user's new instruction > 5) It is easy to accidentally add or move a vertex because the most > intuitive way of selecting something is to click it. But when you click > a vertex/segment/cross while being highlighted you are already on your > way to move it. this is another disappointing behavior, the selection of the vertices happens only passing with the mouse on the polygon but, in a polygon with thousands of vertices it is almost impossible to choose the one or those need to edit if the vertices do not remain highlighted (where the vertices are on polygon? The user should select them randomly? How much time is lost to find the right ones to edit?) > 6) The behaviour is not consistent: > a) If you want to move _one_ vertex, try to grab it when it is > highlighted then move it; if you want to move several vertices, first > select them, then click them, then move them. > b) If you want to delete a vertex, try to grab it when it is > highlighted; if you want to delete a segment, do not try to grab it when > it is highlighted but select its two vertices and delete them. nothing to add here, the incongruity speaks for itself (in my opinion, the users they must know clearly and visually the exact position of the vertexes in a polygon when they need to edit them) > The German user group thinks that the points raised above are valid, > even if all pending bugs are fixed. The node tool is still not perfect > (it wasn't in QGIS 2 either). > > So we propose a change in the way the node tool works and would like to > hear other users' s opinions. > While the click - move - click change has valid reasons (use advance > digitizing panel, pan or zoom map while moving vertices) the dropping of > the first choose feature - then choose vertex workflow to immediately > move a vertex has no real reasoning (except that it is less clicks in > those cases where the node can be easily grabbed in the first place). > But this new workflow is the main cause for the problems listed above. > > Therefore we would like to see the old workflow reimplemented with some > of the new ideas added plus some new ingredients. This is the draft for > how the tool might work in the future: > > 1) While the mouse is moved around features
Re: [Qgis-user] Node Tool - proposing improvements
I agree with Bernhard. Last time, it was done through QEP and no real feedback from users. The change to the node tool behaviour requires input from experienced users who do digitizing in their day-to-day works. I suggest to have the draft proposal as a blog post on QGIS.org to get more users involved in the way forward. Currently, there are some bugs and several contradicting preferences and requests. Any new changes to the current behaviour without consulting with users will probably take us back to square one. Regards Saber On Tue, 27 Nov 2018, 06:51 Bernhard Ströbl Hi Nyall, > > the reason to post this issue to the users' list was to get feedback > from users (and developers, too). I am totally aware that a QEP would be > appropriate but I doubt that many users are taking part in the > discussion there. > Anyways I am going to sum up the results and create a proposal later on, > will that do? > > Bernhard > > Am 27.11.2018 um 01:23 schrieb Nyall Dawson: > > On Mon, 26 Nov 2018 at 21:39, Bernhard Ströbl > wrote: > >> > >> Dear all, > >> > >> I want to apologize, this has become an extremely long mail... > >> > >> A lot of discussion has been going on about the recent reimplementation > >> of the node tool in QGIS 3. > > > > Hi Bernhard, > > > > Thanks for the detailed proposal, and for taking the time to come up > > with a constructive way forward here. > > > > Can I encourage you to copy the contents of your proposal across to > > the "QEP" repository: > > https://github.com/qgis/QGIS-Enhancement-Proposals/issues ? I think > > that's the correct channel to discuss these ideas so that the > > conversation is kept central and recorded permanently for reference. > > > > Nyall > > > >> > >> I see two reasons for this: > >> 1) The way the tool works is very different from the way it used to work > >> in QGIS 2: > >> a) in QGIS 2 it was choose feature - choose node(s) - do something > >> whereas in QGIS 3 it is choose node - do something > >> b) to move a node was click - (keep pressed) - move - release which was > >> changed to click - release - move - click - release > >> 2) There have been several bugs (as could be expected with a new > >> implementation). These, however, were used to question the whole feature > >> (most of the bugs are fixed now). > >> > >> Apart from bugs and people not being used to the new tool the critics > >> concentrate around: > >> 1) Probably most annoying: Mouse movements for choosing an existing > >> vertex/adding a new vertex at the middle of the line are not well > >> defined (especially important if features and its vertices are very > >> close together). Imagine a polygon surrounded (or even worse: > >> overlapped) by others, now try to click a particular vertex. You will > >> fail if always the neighbouring polygon is highlighted. The workaround > >> is to select the vertex with a mouse window while its feature is > >> highlighted (or previously select the feature e.g. with the > >> Select-Feature tool). For overlapping features it is even harder. > >> 2) Highlighting effect is disturbing. > >> 3) Adding a new vertex puts the new vertex on the mouse ready to be > >> moved but user has no intention to move it but to leave it where it has > >> been added (e.g. for topological reasons). > >> 4) Vertices are not visible all the time but only when the feature is > >> highlighted. This can make choosing a particular vertex difficult (see > >> also 1). > >> 5) It is easy to accidentally add or move a vertex because the most > >> intuitive way of selecting something is to click it. But when you click > >> a vertex/segment/cross while being highlighted you are already on your > >> way to move it. > >> 6) The behaviour is not consistent: > >> a) If you want to move _one_ vertex, try to grab it when it is > >> highlighted then move it; if you want to move several vertices, first > >> select them, then click them, then move them. > >> b) If you want to delete a vertex, try to grab it when it is > >> highlighted; if you want to delete a segment, do not try to grab it when > >> it is highlighted but select its two vertices and delete them. > >> > >> The German user group thinks that the points raised above are valid, > >> even if all pending bugs are fixed. The node tool is still not perfect > >> (it wasn't in QGIS 2 either). > >> > >> So we propose a change in the way the node tool works and would like to > >> hear other users' s opinions. > >> While the click - move - click change has valid reasons (use advance > >> digitizing panel, pan or zoom map while moving vertices) the dropping of > >> the first choose feature - then choose vertex workflow to immediately > >> move a vertex has no real reasoning (except that it is less clicks in > >> those cases where the node can be easily grabbed in the first place). > >> But this new workflow is the main cause for the problems listed above. > >> > >> Therefore we would like to see the old workflow reimplemented with some > >> of the
Re: [Qgis-user] Node Tool - proposing improvements
Hi Nyall, the reason to post this issue to the users' list was to get feedback from users (and developers, too). I am totally aware that a QEP would be appropriate but I doubt that many users are taking part in the discussion there. Anyways I am going to sum up the results and create a proposal later on, will that do? Bernhard Am 27.11.2018 um 01:23 schrieb Nyall Dawson: On Mon, 26 Nov 2018 at 21:39, Bernhard Ströbl wrote: Dear all, I want to apologize, this has become an extremely long mail... A lot of discussion has been going on about the recent reimplementation of the node tool in QGIS 3. Hi Bernhard, Thanks for the detailed proposal, and for taking the time to come up with a constructive way forward here. Can I encourage you to copy the contents of your proposal across to the "QEP" repository: https://github.com/qgis/QGIS-Enhancement-Proposals/issues ? I think that's the correct channel to discuss these ideas so that the conversation is kept central and recorded permanently for reference. Nyall I see two reasons for this: 1) The way the tool works is very different from the way it used to work in QGIS 2: a) in QGIS 2 it was choose feature - choose node(s) - do something whereas in QGIS 3 it is choose node - do something b) to move a node was click - (keep pressed) - move - release which was changed to click - release - move - click - release 2) There have been several bugs (as could be expected with a new implementation). These, however, were used to question the whole feature (most of the bugs are fixed now). Apart from bugs and people not being used to the new tool the critics concentrate around: 1) Probably most annoying: Mouse movements for choosing an existing vertex/adding a new vertex at the middle of the line are not well defined (especially important if features and its vertices are very close together). Imagine a polygon surrounded (or even worse: overlapped) by others, now try to click a particular vertex. You will fail if always the neighbouring polygon is highlighted. The workaround is to select the vertex with a mouse window while its feature is highlighted (or previously select the feature e.g. with the Select-Feature tool). For overlapping features it is even harder. 2) Highlighting effect is disturbing. 3) Adding a new vertex puts the new vertex on the mouse ready to be moved but user has no intention to move it but to leave it where it has been added (e.g. for topological reasons). 4) Vertices are not visible all the time but only when the feature is highlighted. This can make choosing a particular vertex difficult (see also 1). 5) It is easy to accidentally add or move a vertex because the most intuitive way of selecting something is to click it. But when you click a vertex/segment/cross while being highlighted you are already on your way to move it. 6) The behaviour is not consistent: a) If you want to move _one_ vertex, try to grab it when it is highlighted then move it; if you want to move several vertices, first select them, then click them, then move them. b) If you want to delete a vertex, try to grab it when it is highlighted; if you want to delete a segment, do not try to grab it when it is highlighted but select its two vertices and delete them. The German user group thinks that the points raised above are valid, even if all pending bugs are fixed. The node tool is still not perfect (it wasn't in QGIS 2 either). So we propose a change in the way the node tool works and would like to hear other users' s opinions. While the click - move - click change has valid reasons (use advance digitizing panel, pan or zoom map while moving vertices) the dropping of the first choose feature - then choose vertex workflow to immediately move a vertex has no real reasoning (except that it is less clicks in those cases where the node can be easily grabbed in the first place). But this new workflow is the main cause for the problems listed above. Therefore we would like to see the old workflow reimplemented with some of the new ideas added plus some new ingredients. This is the draft for how the tool might work in the future: 1) While the mouse is moved around features are highlighted to indicate they can be edited. Furthermore eventual vertices, segments or crosses are highlighted, too (as in QGIS 3). 2) While a feature is being highlighted, it can be chosen with a left click (new). 3) If the user makes a right click instead, another (adjacent) feature is highlighted and can be chosen with a subsequent left click and so on (new). 4) As soon as a feature is chosen, the Vertex-Editor panel is opened (as in QGIS 2). 5) A chosen feature is the only feature whose vertices can be edited at that point* (as in QGIS 2). The chosen feature and all its vertices stay visible until the end of this feature's editing session (as in QGIS 2). If a vertex was highlighted it is immediately selected, if a segment was highlighted, its two vertices are immediately selected, if the
Re: [Qgis-user] Node Tool - proposing improvements
Hi Denis, thanks for answering Am 26.11.2018 um 14:00 schrieb Denis Rouzaud: Hi all, Thanks a lot for summarising this all. Basically I was reviewing all related issues to see which need to be fixed, thus I really played a lot with the new node tool. All these issues seem very valid to me, but the logic of bringing back the selection of the feature has no valid reasoning to me. I see a few things that could be improved to solve these issues: 1) choosing/adding vertex in a dense area: We could introduce a feature-locking: whenever you have highlighted a feature, pressing ALT would lock the feature. That would allow you to safely add/choose/move a vertex on that feature. Would do for any feature that highlights in the first place. Problem is that you might have to move around the mouse pointer a lot until your desired feature highlights and features totally overlapped by others might still be more cumbersome. That's where the proposal to switch through the features with right clicks brings improvement. Locking the feature with ALT would be the same as my choose-proposal but less intuitive than a left click. 2) Highlighting: The fact that the highlighting is disturbing is a bit subjective to me. Is it too aggressive? If so, default colour and width could be tuned a bit I guess. This was a point raised in one issue and I agree it is subjective. Maybe it is related to the above, that you have to move around the mouse pointer a lot and all the times some feature highlights? 3) Adding vertex should stay where it was pressed: The solution you propose in 13 seems really good to me (double click adding leaves new vertex in place). 4) vertices not alway highlighted: solution proposed in 1) would also tackle this one I think. 5) accidental add/move I think that this will only be achieved by training. It is indeed a bit less intuitive than previous behaviour. IMHO the more intuitive a software behaves the better But I don't see any way to change this. Could you explain why? A right click very cancels very quickly anything anyway. 6) consistency a) moving vertices I don't see the inconsistency here. You can select a vertex and move it later, similarly to moving several. Moving a single by simply clicking on is just a shortcut to me. agreed, I could live with that b) deleting segments vs vertices I think that this also comes with training. The reasoning is that you can only select vertices and not segments, and you can delete only what has been selected. If you can only select vertices then the two vertices should be selected when the segment has been clicked on. You are never selecting a segment (it never comes blue), Current behaviour is that you "select" the segment and are ready to move it. clicking on it is only a shortcut to move it. Is there a need to be able to delete segments faster? We do not know what users do. I personally neither need a way to delete two-vertex segments nor to move them faster than the normal way. But the current behaviour is kinda "nervous" and if you click in the wrong moment you have to abolish your move with a right click and try again. I think the vertex tool became very powerful at the cost of a steeper learning curve. I would really be in favour of trying these ideas before adding a click in all operations with the tool. regards Bernhard Cheers, Denis Le lun. 26 nov. 2018 à 07:33, Bernhard Ströbl a écrit : Dear all, I want to apologize, this has become an extremely long mail... A lot of discussion has been going on about the recent reimplementation of the node tool in QGIS 3. I see two reasons for this: 1) The way the tool works is very different from the way it used to work in QGIS 2: a) in QGIS 2 it was choose feature - choose node(s) - do something whereas in QGIS 3 it is choose node - do something b) to move a node was click - (keep pressed) - move - release which was changed to click - release - move - click - release 2) There have been several bugs (as could be expected with a new implementation). These, however, were used to question the whole feature (most of the bugs are fixed now). Apart from bugs and people not being used to the new tool the critics concentrate around: 1) Probably most annoying: Mouse movements for choosing an existing vertex/adding a new vertex at the middle of the line are not well defined (especially important if features and its vertices are very close together). Imagine a polygon surrounded (or even worse: overlapped) by others, now try to click a particular vertex. You will fail if always the neighbouring polygon is highlighted. The workaround is to select the vertex with a mouse window while its feature is highlighted (or previously select the feature e.g. with the Select-Feature tool). For overlapping features it is even harder. 2) Highlighting effect is disturbing. 3) Adding a new vertex puts the new vertex on the mouse ready to be moved but user has no intention
Re: [Qgis-user] Node Tool - proposing improvements
On Mon, 26 Nov 2018 at 21:39, Bernhard Ströbl wrote: > > Dear all, > > I want to apologize, this has become an extremely long mail... > > A lot of discussion has been going on about the recent reimplementation > of the node tool in QGIS 3. Hi Bernhard, Thanks for the detailed proposal, and for taking the time to come up with a constructive way forward here. Can I encourage you to copy the contents of your proposal across to the "QEP" repository: https://github.com/qgis/QGIS-Enhancement-Proposals/issues ? I think that's the correct channel to discuss these ideas so that the conversation is kept central and recorded permanently for reference. Nyall > > I see two reasons for this: > 1) The way the tool works is very different from the way it used to work > in QGIS 2: > a) in QGIS 2 it was choose feature - choose node(s) - do something > whereas in QGIS 3 it is choose node - do something > b) to move a node was click - (keep pressed) - move - release which was > changed to click - release - move - click - release > 2) There have been several bugs (as could be expected with a new > implementation). These, however, were used to question the whole feature > (most of the bugs are fixed now). > > Apart from bugs and people not being used to the new tool the critics > concentrate around: > 1) Probably most annoying: Mouse movements for choosing an existing > vertex/adding a new vertex at the middle of the line are not well > defined (especially important if features and its vertices are very > close together). Imagine a polygon surrounded (or even worse: > overlapped) by others, now try to click a particular vertex. You will > fail if always the neighbouring polygon is highlighted. The workaround > is to select the vertex with a mouse window while its feature is > highlighted (or previously select the feature e.g. with the > Select-Feature tool). For overlapping features it is even harder. > 2) Highlighting effect is disturbing. > 3) Adding a new vertex puts the new vertex on the mouse ready to be > moved but user has no intention to move it but to leave it where it has > been added (e.g. for topological reasons). > 4) Vertices are not visible all the time but only when the feature is > highlighted. This can make choosing a particular vertex difficult (see > also 1). > 5) It is easy to accidentally add or move a vertex because the most > intuitive way of selecting something is to click it. But when you click > a vertex/segment/cross while being highlighted you are already on your > way to move it. > 6) The behaviour is not consistent: > a) If you want to move _one_ vertex, try to grab it when it is > highlighted then move it; if you want to move several vertices, first > select them, then click them, then move them. > b) If you want to delete a vertex, try to grab it when it is > highlighted; if you want to delete a segment, do not try to grab it when > it is highlighted but select its two vertices and delete them. > > The German user group thinks that the points raised above are valid, > even if all pending bugs are fixed. The node tool is still not perfect > (it wasn't in QGIS 2 either). > > So we propose a change in the way the node tool works and would like to > hear other users' s opinions. > While the click - move - click change has valid reasons (use advance > digitizing panel, pan or zoom map while moving vertices) the dropping of > the first choose feature - then choose vertex workflow to immediately > move a vertex has no real reasoning (except that it is less clicks in > those cases where the node can be easily grabbed in the first place). > But this new workflow is the main cause for the problems listed above. > > Therefore we would like to see the old workflow reimplemented with some > of the new ideas added plus some new ingredients. This is the draft for > how the tool might work in the future: > > 1) While the mouse is moved around features are highlighted to indicate > they can be edited. Furthermore eventual vertices, segments or crosses > are highlighted, too (as in QGIS 3). > 2) While a feature is being highlighted, it can be chosen with a left > click (new). > 3) If the user makes a right click instead, another (adjacent) feature > is highlighted and can be chosen with a subsequent left click and so on > (new). > 4) As soon as a feature is chosen, the Vertex-Editor panel is opened (as > in QGIS 2). > 5) A chosen feature is the only feature whose vertices can be edited at > that point* (as in QGIS 2). The chosen feature and all its vertices stay > visible until the end of this feature's editing session (as in QGIS 2). > If a vertex was highlighted it is immediately selected, if a segment was > highlighted, its two vertices are immediately selected, if the middle of > a segment was highlighted with a cross a new vertex is created there and > immediately selected (new). > 6) A vertex is selected by left clicking on it (as in QGIS 2). > 7) Several vertices are selected by using a mouse window
[Qgis-user] Node Tool - proposing improvements
Dear all, I want to apologize, this has become an extremely long mail... A lot of discussion has been going on about the recent reimplementation of the node tool in QGIS 3. I see two reasons for this: 1) The way the tool works is very different from the way it used to work in QGIS 2: a) in QGIS 2 it was choose feature - choose node(s) - do something whereas in QGIS 3 it is choose node - do something b) to move a node was click - (keep pressed) - move - release which was changed to click - release - move - click - release 2) There have been several bugs (as could be expected with a new implementation). These, however, were used to question the whole feature (most of the bugs are fixed now). Apart from bugs and people not being used to the new tool the critics concentrate around: 1) Probably most annoying: Mouse movements for choosing an existing vertex/adding a new vertex at the middle of the line are not well defined (especially important if features and its vertices are very close together). Imagine a polygon surrounded (or even worse: overlapped) by others, now try to click a particular vertex. You will fail if always the neighbouring polygon is highlighted. The workaround is to select the vertex with a mouse window while its feature is highlighted (or previously select the feature e.g. with the Select-Feature tool). For overlapping features it is even harder. 2) Highlighting effect is disturbing. 3) Adding a new vertex puts the new vertex on the mouse ready to be moved but user has no intention to move it but to leave it where it has been added (e.g. for topological reasons). 4) Vertices are not visible all the time but only when the feature is highlighted. This can make choosing a particular vertex difficult (see also 1). 5) It is easy to accidentally add or move a vertex because the most intuitive way of selecting something is to click it. But when you click a vertex/segment/cross while being highlighted you are already on your way to move it. 6) The behaviour is not consistent: a) If you want to move _one_ vertex, try to grab it when it is highlighted then move it; if you want to move several vertices, first select them, then click them, then move them. b) If you want to delete a vertex, try to grab it when it is highlighted; if you want to delete a segment, do not try to grab it when it is highlighted but select its two vertices and delete them. The German user group thinks that the points raised above are valid, even if all pending bugs are fixed. The node tool is still not perfect (it wasn't in QGIS 2 either). So we propose a change in the way the node tool works and would like to hear other users' s opinions. While the click - move - click change has valid reasons (use advance digitizing panel, pan or zoom map while moving vertices) the dropping of the first choose feature - then choose vertex workflow to immediately move a vertex has no real reasoning (except that it is less clicks in those cases where the node can be easily grabbed in the first place). But this new workflow is the main cause for the problems listed above. Therefore we would like to see the old workflow reimplemented with some of the new ideas added plus some new ingredients. This is the draft for how the tool might work in the future: 1) While the mouse is moved around features are highlighted to indicate they can be edited. Furthermore eventual vertices, segments or crosses are highlighted, too (as in QGIS 3). 2) While a feature is being highlighted, it can be chosen with a left click (new). 3) If the user makes a right click instead, another (adjacent) feature is highlighted and can be chosen with a subsequent left click and so on (new). 4) As soon as a feature is chosen, the Vertex-Editor panel is opened (as in QGIS 2). 5) A chosen feature is the only feature whose vertices can be edited at that point* (as in QGIS 2). The chosen feature and all its vertices stay visible until the end of this feature's editing session (as in QGIS 2). If a vertex was highlighted it is immediately selected, if a segment was highlighted, its two vertices are immediately selected, if the middle of a segment was highlighted with a cross a new vertex is created there and immediately selected (new). 6) A vertex is selected by left clicking on it (as in QGIS 2). 7) Several vertices are selected by using a mouse window (as in QGIS 2 and 3). 8) A click on a segment selects its two vertices (as in QGIS 2). 9) Vertices can be selected via the Vertex-Editor panel, too (as was in QGIS 2) 10) Every new vertex selection clears any previuos selection except if Crtl is pressed which adds the new selection to the current if vertices were not selected or subtracts them from the current selection if they were selected (as in QGIS 2). 11) Selected vertices can be deleted (as in QGIS 2 and 3). 12) Selected vertices can be moved by clicking either of them, thus the vertex (the vertices) are
