Re: [Qgis-user] QGIS "full" builds

[Tobias Wendorff]

Am 17.08.2021 um 13:13 schrieb Jürgen E. Fischer:

Not reproducable.  You didn't uncheck the checkbox for start menu icons and did
check the one for desktop items?
Now it works. Maybe not all mirrors were in sync? I'm often having with 
norbit.de. It seems like the license files are missing. I need to report 
this.

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Re: [Qgis-user] QGIS "full" builds

[Ari Meyer]

Hi Jurgen,

I think the instructions at least should be changed to make it less
confusing.  I think most importantly that the additional dependencies that
define "full" should be made explicit on the download page.

With the advanced installer, I wonder if "full" serves any purpose, as you
generally want to have a minimal base and pick only those additional
dependencies that you need.  But I can understand it being there for
consistency.

Thanks,
Ari

On Tue, Aug 17, 2021 at 9:05 AM Jürgen E. Fischer  wrote:

> Hi Andrea,
>
> On Tue, 17. Aug 2021 at 13:31:36 +0200, Andrea Giudiceandrea wrote:
> > Long-term release in old OSGeo4W (continued with previous dependencies):
>
> > In the installer choose Express Install and select QGIS LTR to install
> the
> > long term release.
>
> That'd be wrong, because there is no LTR express target in the old
> installer.
> It was added to the new installer and that's why the wording was changed
> there.
>
>
> Jürgen
>
>
> --
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> Dipl.-Inf. (FH)   Rheinstra
> ße 13
>   Fax. +49-4931-918175-50
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Re: [Qgis-user] QGIS "full" builds

[Andrea Giudiceandrea]

Jürgen E . Fischer Tue, 17 Aug 2021 03:34:16 -0700

On Tue, 17. Aug 2021 at 04:19:28 -0500, Ari Meyer wrote:

Right.  So for the V1 (old) installer we should use "qgis-ltr-full" like it
says, but for V2 (new) we should only specify "qgis-ltr"?


No, you should pick the express target QGIS LTR (which is qgis-ltr-full in
advanced mode).

But you can pick qgis-ltr if you don't want the optional dependencies,
qgis-ltr-full comes with.


Thus, the old OSGeo4W section in the download page could be slightly 
changed in order to better clarify the instructions:


from (current wording):
***
Long-term release in old OSGeo4W (continued with previous dependencies):

In the installer choose Advanced Install and select qgis-ltr-full to 
install the long term release.
Packages for the latest release and nightly thereof and master are 
discontinued in old OSGeo4W.

This installer also allows installing QGIS without non-free software
***

to:
***
Long-term release in old OSGeo4W (continued with previous dependencies):

In the installer choose Express Install and select QGIS LTR to install 
the long term release.
The express installation have several optional packages including 
non-free software. To avoid those you have to use the Advanced Install 
and choose qgis-ltr in the desktop section.
Packages for the latest release and nightly thereof and master are 
discontinued in old OSGeo4W.

***

What dou you think?

Regards.

Andrea
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Re: [Qgis-user] QGIS "full" builds

[Jürgen E . Fischer]

Hi Andrea,

On Tue, 17. Aug 2021 at 13:31:36 +0200, Andrea Giudiceandrea wrote:
> Long-term release in old OSGeo4W (continued with previous dependencies):
 
> In the installer choose Express Install and select QGIS LTR to install the
> long term release.

That'd be wrong, because there is no LTR express target in the old installer.
It was added to the new installer and that's why the wording was changed there.


Jürgen


-- 
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Dipl.-Inf. (FH)   Rheinstraße 13Fax. +49-4931-918175-50
Software Engineer D-26506 Norden  https://www.norbit.de


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Re: [Qgis-user] QGIS "full" builds

[Tobias Wendorff]

Hey Jürgen,

Am 17.08.2021 um 13:13 schrieb Jürgen E. Fischer:


Not reproducable.  You didn't uncheck the checkbox for start menu icons and did
check the one for desktop items?


No, since I definitely wanted this. I just did a new run (with the 
checkboxes checked) and there are still no icons.

Let me reset the VM (I made a snapshot before) and retry.

Best regards,
Tobias
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Re: [Qgis-user] QGIS "full" builds

[Jürgen E . Fischer]

Hi Tobias,

On Mon, 16. Aug 2021 at 14:31:47 +0200, Tobias Wendorff wrote:
> Sorry from crashing in by aside, but I just tried "qgis-rel-dev-full" on a
> clean system. It didn't install any icons on desktop or startmenu :-(
> 
> I've expected this to do the "full" installation.

Not reproducable.  You didn't uncheck the checkbox for start menu icons and did
check the one for desktop items?


Jürgen

-- 
Jürgen E. Fischer   norBIT GmbH Tel. +49-4931-918175-31
Dipl.-Inf. (FH) Rheinstraße 13  Fax. +49-4931-918175-50
Software Engineer   D-26506 Nordenhttps://www.norbit.de
QGIS release manager (PSC)  Germany IRC: jef on Libera|OFTC


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Re: [Qgis-user] QGIS "full" builds

[Jürgen E . Fischer]

Hi Ari,

On Tue, 17. Aug 2021 at 04:19:28 -0500, Ari Meyer wrote:
> Right.  So for the V1 (old) installer we should use "qgis-ltr-full" like it
> says, but for V2 (new) we should only specify "qgis-ltr"?

No, you should pick the express target QGIS LTR (which is qgis-ltr-full in
advanced mode).

But you can pick qgis-ltr if you don't want the optional dependencies,
qgis-ltr-full comes with.


Jürgen

-- 
Jürgen E. Fischer   norBIT GmbH Tel. +49-4931-918175-31
Dipl.-Inf. (FH) Rheinstraße 13  Fax. +49-4931-918175-50
Software Engineer   D-26506 Nordenhttps://www.norbit.de
QGIS release manager (PSC)  Germany IRC: jef on Libera|OFTC


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Re: [Qgis-user] QGIS "full" builds

[Ari Meyer]

Right.  So for the V1 (old) installer we should use "qgis-ltr-full" like it
says, but for V2 (new) we should only specify "qgis-ltr"?

On Tue, Aug 17, 2021 at 3:21 AM Jürgen E. Fischer  wrote:

> Hi Ari,
>
> On Mon, 16. Aug 2021 at 16:30:07 -0500, Ari Meyer wrote:
> > Thanks, Jurgen, but on that download page it still says clearly:  In the
> > installer choose *Advanced Install* and select *qgis-ltr-full* to install
> > the *long term release*.
>
> In the section about old OSGeo4W.
>
>
> Jürgen
>
> --
> Jürgen E. Fischer   norBIT GmbH Tel. +49-4931-918175-31
> Dipl.-Inf. (FH) Rheinstraße 13  Fax. +49-4931-918175-50
> Software Engineer   D-26506 Norden
> https://www.norbit.de
> QGIS release manager (PSC)  Germany IRC: jef on Libera|OFTC
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Re: [Qgis-user] QGIS "full" builds

[Jürgen E . Fischer]

Hi Ari,

On Mon, 16. Aug 2021 at 16:30:07 -0500, Ari Meyer wrote:
> Thanks, Jurgen, but on that download page it still says clearly:  In the
> installer choose *Advanced Install* and select *qgis-ltr-full* to install
> the *long term release*.

In the section about old OSGeo4W.


Jürgen

-- 
Jürgen E. Fischer   norBIT GmbH Tel. +49-4931-918175-31
Dipl.-Inf. (FH) Rheinstraße 13  Fax. +49-4931-918175-50
Software Engineer   D-26506 Nordenhttps://www.norbit.de
QGIS release manager (PSC)  Germany IRC: jef on Libera|OFTC


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Re: [Qgis-user] QGIS "full" builds

[Ari Meyer]

Thanks, Jurgen, but on that download page it still says clearly:  In the
installer choose *Advanced Install* and select *qgis-ltr-full* to install
the *long term release*.

Is that a mistake?  Maybe they can add your clarifications on the download
page, as it's confusing.
Ari

On Mon, Aug 16, 2021 at 3:54 AM Jürgen E. Fischer  wrote:

> Hi Ari,
>
> On Fri, 13. Aug 2021 at 21:07:40 -0500, Ari Meyer wrote:
> > One thing that is still unclear to me is the difference between the
> > qgis-*full* distributions and the corresponding builds that aren't
> "full".
>
> > Here is the only thing I could find (very old):
>
> >
> https://gis.stackexchange.com/questions/192978/installing-qgis-ltr-or-qgis-ltr-full-with-osgeo4w-or-both
> > , but it's still not clear what the difference is.  Do I need *full* to
> get
> > all the *necessary* dependencies?  That doesn't appear to be the case.
> > Will *full* install a lot of dependencies we don't necessarily need?
> > Unclear.  If I just install qgis-ltr and pick the additional
> dependencies I
> > need, it works.
>
> qgis has all necessary dependencies.
>
> qgis-full is a meta package depends on qgis and has optional dependencies
> (grass, saga, ecw, oracle, filegdb, optional python extensions needed by
> popular plugins etc.).  And it doesn't have any own files, so the version
> number doesn't matter.
>
> qgis-full is also the package selection that the standalone installer is
> made
> from.
>
> > It says in https://qgis.org/en/site/forusers/download.html that we
> should
> > just pick qgis-ltr with the new V2 network installer, but we should pick
> > qgis-ltr-full with the old V1.
>
> No, it points you to the express targets.  It doesn't point to
> qgis-ltr-full
> anymore, because there's now an express target for QGIS LTR too (which is
> qgis-ltr-full).
>
> It just says that you should install qgis or qgis-ltr if you don't want the
> proprietary dependencies that come with qgis-*full.
>
>
> Jürgen
>
> --
> Jürgen E. Fischer   norBIT GmbH Tel. +49-4931-918175-31
> Dipl.-Inf. (FH) Rheinstraße 13  Fax. +49-4931-918175-50
> Software Engineer   D-26506 Norden
> https://www.norbit.de
> QGIS release manager (PSC)  Germany IRC: jef on Libera|OFTC
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Re: [Qgis-user] QGIS "full" builds

[Tobias Wendorff]

Am 16.08.2021 um 10:53 schrieb Jürgen E. Fischer:

qgis-full is a meta package depends on qgis and has optional dependencies
(grass, saga, ecw, oracle, filegdb, optional python extensions needed by
popular plugins etc.).  And it doesn't have any own files, so the version
number doesn't matter.

qgis-full is also the package selection that the standalone installer is made
from.


Sorry from crashing in by aside, but I just tried "qgis-rel-dev-full" on 
a clean system. It didn't install any icons on desktop or startmenu :-(


I've expected this to do the "full" installation.
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Re: [Qgis-user] QGIS "full" builds

[Jürgen E . Fischer]

Hi Ari,

On Fri, 13. Aug 2021 at 21:07:40 -0500, Ari Meyer wrote:
> One thing that is still unclear to me is the difference between the
> qgis-*full* distributions and the corresponding builds that aren't "full".

> Here is the only thing I could find (very old):

> https://gis.stackexchange.com/questions/192978/installing-qgis-ltr-or-qgis-ltr-full-with-osgeo4w-or-both
> , but it's still not clear what the difference is.  Do I need *full* to get
> all the *necessary* dependencies?  That doesn't appear to be the case.
> Will *full* install a lot of dependencies we don't necessarily need?
> Unclear.  If I just install qgis-ltr and pick the additional dependencies I
> need, it works.

qgis has all necessary dependencies.

qgis-full is a meta package depends on qgis and has optional dependencies
(grass, saga, ecw, oracle, filegdb, optional python extensions needed by
popular plugins etc.).  And it doesn't have any own files, so the version
number doesn't matter.

qgis-full is also the package selection that the standalone installer is made
from.

> It says in https://qgis.org/en/site/forusers/download.html that we should
> just pick qgis-ltr with the new V2 network installer, but we should pick
> qgis-ltr-full with the old V1.

No, it points you to the express targets.  It doesn't point to qgis-ltr-full
anymore, because there's now an express target for QGIS LTR too (which is
qgis-ltr-full).

It just says that you should install qgis or qgis-ltr if you don't want the
proprietary dependencies that come with qgis-*full.


Jürgen

-- 
Jürgen E. Fischer   norBIT GmbH Tel. +49-4931-918175-31
Dipl.-Inf. (FH) Rheinstraße 13  Fax. +49-4931-918175-50
Software Engineer   D-26506 Nordenhttps://www.norbit.de
QGIS release manager (PSC)  Germany IRC: jef on Libera|OFTC


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[Qgis-user] QGIS "full" builds

[Ari Meyer]

One thing that is still unclear to me is the difference between the
qgis-*full* distributions and the corresponding builds that aren't "full".
Here is the only thing I could find (very old):
https://gis.stackexchange.com/questions/192978/installing-qgis-ltr-or-qgis-ltr-full-with-osgeo4w-or-both
, but it's still not clear what the difference is.  Do I need *full* to get
all the *necessary* dependencies?  That doesn't appear to be the case.
Will *full* install a lot of dependencies we don't necessarily need?
Unclear.  If I just install qgis-ltr and pick the additional dependencies I
need, it works.

So when do we want to use full?  It says in
https://qgis.org/en/site/forusers/download.html that we should just pick
qgis-ltr with the new V2 network installer, but we should pick
qgis-ltr-full with the old V1.  Is that right?  Very confusing.

>From the installation page:

QGIS in OSGeo4W (recommended for regular users):
  OSGeo4W Network Installer
In the installer choose Express Install and select QGIS to install the
latest release or QGIS LTR to install the long term release.
The express installations have several optional packages including non-free
software. To avoid those you have to use the Advanced Install and choose
qgis and/or qgis-ltr in the desktop section.
...

Long-term release in old OSGeo4W (continued with previous dependencies):
  OSGeo4W Network Installer (64 bit)
  OSGeo4W Network Installer (32 bit)
In the installer choose Advanced Install and select qgis-ltr-full to
install the long term release.


So with the V2 installer, it says we should pick "qgis-ltr".  With V1,
though, it says that we should select "qgis-ltr-full".  Is that a mistake?

More confusing still, I tried several installs with the following criteria:
* Desktop
* qgis-ltr 3.16.9-1
* saga: SAGA
* Libs
* qgis-ltr-grass-plugin
* python3-geopandas
* python3-pip
* python3-scipy
* python3-setuptools


Here are the directory sizes for the different installations:
V1 installer:
qgis-ltr 3.16.9-1: 1,317,261,588b
qgis-ltr-full 3.10-2: unknown

V2 installer:
qgis-ltr 3.16.9-1: 2,611,070,436b
qgis-ltr-full 3.16.9-1: 2,364,040,539b

So with V2, with the same dependencies, qgis-ltr-full actually was
*smaller* than qgis-ltr!  The V1 3.16.9-1 qgis-ltr has Python 3.7 and older
dependencies, so I know we're not comparing apples to apples.  The V1
qgis-ltr-full still shows 3.10-2, so I didn't even bother installing it.

Do the V2 differences between qgis-ltr-full and qgis-ltr make sense?

Thanks,
Ari
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