Re: [Qgis-user] Alternative labels on each iteration?

[Nyall Dawson]

On 18 March 2017 at 06:40, Tobias Wendorff
 wrote:

> Since I've developed a way, how to shorten label the automatic way
> for ArcGIS, Mapnik and Mapserver, I'm missing this feature in QGIS.
> I love working with QGIS and telling other people, how to use it.

Thanks for the clarification - it's hard to read tone over email sometimes :)

I should add... I also would like this feature. In fact, I've already
sketched out a plan to implement it. Basically QGIS' labeling engine
needs a way to register multiple labels for a feature, with a
customised cost for each. The placement engine then needs a concept of
"mutually exclusive" labels - i.e. label candidates where only a
single candidate in the mutually exclusive group can be used in the
final labeling solution. This way multiple approaches could be used to
specify the list of possible alternative labels + their corresponding
cost: this could be via python, via data defined overrides, or just a
simple dropdown "alternative label" combo. Not *huge* changes, but
anything touching on the placement engine brings a certain degree of
complexity just by the nature of that code.

That said, I'm unlikely to take this any further myself unless I get a
complex mapping job which just can't be done without this feature (or
sponsorship). It falls firmly into the "too long to just whip up for
the sake of it, too complex to be an enjoyable coding job just for
coding's sake" category!

Nyall
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Re: [Qgis-user] Alternative labels on each iteration?

[Tobias Wendorff]

Am Fr, 17.03.2017, 21:37 schrieb Régis Haubourg:
> I can't agree more here, QGIS is already really powerful. And..

Waaaiit ... I didn't mean cartography in QGIS is bad or not useful.
It's not useful for the corporations, I've worked with, since they
need to power, ArcGIS gives them.

One of the big features of ArcGIS (and Mapnik & Mapserver) are
alternative and multiline labels. This is needed for automatic or
semi-automatic cartography.

Since I've developed a way, how to shorten label the automatic way
for ArcGIS, Mapnik and Mapserver, I'm missing this feature in QGIS.
I love working with QGIS and telling other people, how to use it.

I'd never go back to ArcGIS again. Okay, I'd buy the $100 home version
to play with its new features... but I like QGIS and OpenSource.

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Re: [Qgis-user] Alternative labels on each iteration?

[Tobias Wendorff]

Am Fr, 17.03.2017, 21:28 schrieb Nyall Dawson:
> That's odd logic. To me this reads that QGIS developers should spend
> hours of volunteer time to make QGIS the hypothetical "perfect"
> cartographic tool, and only then maybe organisations will start to
> support QGIS. That's not how open source works.

You're totally right. But it's hard to convince a corporation working
with ArcGIS to pay a developer to copy QGIS with an unknown result
(unknown functionality, maybe unknown workload). Those corporations
would like to switch to QGIS and donate later, since they need
security.

> I suspect that you'll find many users would be interested in this
> labeling enhancement, and that following a similar approach will lead
> to the same successful end result.

I'm totally with your, trust me. But it's hard to make corporations
do think this way. Of course, *not* all of them do think so ;)

> I may be biased, but I strongly disagree with this statement! Fact is,
> the "ideal" cartography tool doesn't exist yet.

There are some damn good cartography tools out there, with automatic
generalization (including movement of building etc.), but they're not
known in public and they're damn expensive. $30.000 ArcGIS is way
cheaper :)

> But every time I have
> to use one of the commercial alternatives I'm reminded just how much
> MORE powerful QGIS symbology is. QGIS is already a cartographic
> powerhouse, it just may not yet have every single function required
> for all users. But the beauty of open source is that it's possible for
> anyone to fix this!

Again, I'm totally with you. I'm trying to explain this every time
someone goes nuts with QGIS. I'd love to donate, but I'm a student and
hardly have enough money to pay my flat each month. So all I can do is
report bug and add things to a wish list ;)

Best regards,
Tobias

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Re: [Qgis-user] Alternative labels on each iteration?

[Nyall Dawson]

On 18 March 2017 at 02:57, Tobias Wendorff
 wrote:

> Actually, I don't have money to pay the developers. But I know some
> corporations, which would like to switch from ArcGIS to QGIS to save
> money on license costs. But since those are into cartography, QGIS
> isn't really useful for them right now. I might convince them to
> spend some money on QGIS, but I bet, the answer will be "no" :(
>

That's odd logic. To me this reads that QGIS developers should spend
hours of volunteer time to make QGIS the hypothetical "perfect"
cartographic tool, and only then maybe organisations will start to
support QGIS. That's not how open source works.

Let me suggest an alternative approach:

A very similar conversation occurred recently regarding missing
functionality with discrete raster styling. You can follow the
conversation here:
http://lists.osgeo.org/pipermail/qgis-developer/2017-January/046547.html

Basically, a user identified an important missing feature, but alone
was not able to develop this feature or fund its development. Instead,
the user organised a group of other users who were wanting this
functionality, and together they developed the specifications for the
change and fundraised for its development. The end result is that this
missing feature is going to land very shortly in QGIS master!

I suspect that you'll find many users would be interested in this
labeling enhancement, and that following a similar approach will lead
to the same successful end result.

> But since those are into cartography, QGIS isn't really useful for them right 
> now.

I may be biased, but I strongly disagree with this statement! Fact is,
the "ideal" cartography tool doesn't exist yet. But every time I have
to use one of the commercial alternatives I'm reminded just how much
MORE powerful QGIS symbology is. QGIS is already a cartographic
powerhouse, it just may not yet have every single function required
for all users. But the beauty of open source is that it's possible for
anyone to fix this!

Nyall
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Re: [Qgis-user] Alternative labels on each iteration?

[Tobias Wendorff]

Hi Régis!

Am Fr, 17.03.2017, 17:50 schrieb Régis Haubourg :
> Label collision is using quite complicated algorithm, this is a
> truely complex work.

Yeah, I've went through this for a long time in Mapnik ;)
Have spent lot of ideas and time on this project.

> There is currently some work planned around labeling, like
> creating custom "path" for curved labels, port label connectors
> to core and things like that.

The developers should have a look at Mapnik's code. There is a
generic implementation, which does perfect multiline labeling.

> Feel free to contact some qgis developers if you really need that :
> http://www.qgis.org/en/site/forusers/commercial_support.html?highlight=commercial

Actually, I don't have money to pay the developers. But I know some
corporations, which would like to switch from ArcGIS to QGIS to save
money on license costs. But since those are into cartography, QGIS
isn't really useful for them right now. I might convince them to
spend some money on QGIS, but I bet, the answer will be "no" :(

Best regards,
Tobias

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Re: [Qgis-user] Alternative labels on each iteration?

[Tobias Wendorff]

Am Fr, 17.03.2017, 10:58 schrieb Neumann, Andreas:
> Some devs like cartography and also work on smaller improvements
> without being paid. No guarantees of course ...

Okay, I think it would be best to have "alternative labeling" as an
external Python function. Python is way easier to edit for most of
the users.

QGIS could send details, like priority and round of iteration to
the script and the script could abbreviate the label according
to these details.

Since Mapnik and Mapserver also have this functionality, it is
a MUST for QGIS Desktop and Server ;)

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Re: [Qgis-user] Alternative labels on each iteration?

[Tobias Wendorff]

Yes, I know this one, but it's way too simple for advanced cartography.

Actually, the substitution panel needs regex or expressions to give it more 
control. In German context, you don't want to replace all "straße" to "str.". 
The check for a whole word is not enough.

I have done lots if research to this topic, you might find them on the web. But 
it all was about ArcGIS. Neither I am able to code it in QGIS on my own, nor I 
have any money to donate it :(

Maybe I should start writing a feature request with examples about good 
practice?

-- 
Von einem iPhone gesendet und wird daher Fehler enthalten…

Am 17.03.2017 um 10:17 schrieb "Neumann, Andreas" :

> Hi Tobias,
> 
> You don't need regex. There is a replacement table: see 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xaepblv3uMU
> 
> But I think the replacements will always apply, not just in the case there is 
> no space for the full label.
> 
> Andreas
> 
> On 2017-03-17 10:13, Tobias Wendorff wrote:
> 
>> Seems like this is not supported right now.
>> 
>> Substitutions really need regex or expression functionality :(
>> 
>> -- 
>> Von einem iPhone gesendet und wird daher Fehler enthalten...
>> 
>> Am 16.03.2017 um 01:25 schrieb Tobias Wendorff 
>> :
>> 
>>> Hi there!
>>> 
>>> In ArcGIS, Mapnik and Mapserver it is possible to use alternative fields 
>>> for labeling on each iteration. This makes it possible to use abbreviations 
>>> when the full label does not fit in the map.
>>> 
>>> Is this also possible in QGIS? Perhaps even driven by Python?
>>> 
>>> ArcGIS has the nice feature to manually browse through each label variant 
>>> for label editing.
>>> 
>>> Best regards,
>>> Tobias 
>>> 
>>> -- 
>>> Von einem iPhone gesendet und wird daher Fehler enthalten...
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>  
> 
>  
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Re: [Qgis-user] Alternative labels on each iteration?

[Neumann, Andreas]

Hi Tobias, 

You don't need regex. There is a replacement table: see
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xaepblv3uMU 

But I think the replacements will always apply, not just in the case
there is no space for the full label. 

Andreas 

On 2017-03-17 10:13, Tobias Wendorff wrote:

> Seems like this is not supported right now.
> 
> Substitutions really need regex or expression functionality :(
> 
> -- 
> Von einem iPhone gesendet und wird daher Fehler enthalten...
> 
> Am 16.03.2017 um 01:25 schrieb Tobias Wendorff 
> :
> 
>> Hi there!
>> 
>> In ArcGIS, Mapnik and Mapserver it is possible to use alternative fields for 
>> labeling on each iteration. This makes it possible to use abbreviations when 
>> the full label does not fit in the map.
>> 
>> Is this also possible in QGIS? Perhaps even driven by Python?
>> 
>> ArcGIS has the nice feature to manually browse through each label variant 
>> for label editing.
>> 
>> Best regards,
>> Tobias 
>> 
>> -- 
>> Von einem iPhone gesendet und wird daher Fehler enthalten...
>> ___
>> Qgis-user mailing list
>> Qgis-user@lists.osgeo.org
>> List info: https://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/qgis-user
>> Unsubscribe: https://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/qgis-user
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