Re: [ql-users] Printers
On 20 Oct 2004 at 0:13, Roy wood wrote: Well I was on a Florida beach and I did discuss printing (and had many concepts about it - most of which were shot down in flames) but to suggest I could be a leading light is a bit far fetched. All I can say is that it needs a dedicated and unified approach to the problem and that is lacking. I would like to see a solution though - if only so I can stop explaining to people why their printers do not work. I wasn't on that Florida beach, so I don't know anything about it. What I would like to know is just from WHAT people would like to print. If this is still Xchange (Quill), or more or less anything that still produces ASCII codes as output (don't know about perfection or text87) - why don't we use ProForma? I have this (modern) Samsung Laser printer speaking a language any QL related software really doesn't understand - except for ProForma, and I regularly print things on the printer through it. The printer uses PCL 4, like many other printers on the market and there is a printer driver available for it under Proforma. Also, isn't somebody selling a more up to date printer driver for Epsons? So somebody knows how to write Proforma printer drivers (other than Joachim himself, of course) Anyway, so I drive my printer more or less directly from a Basic prog, but a small filter that would take the _lis file from Quill, convert it (for bold and so on) and squirt it to the printer (in the non-proportional courier font ) isn't that difficult to do. I even volunteer to write that if there is some interest. This does presume, however, the the user has, at least, some memory extension, to run Proforma! This also assumes that there is some way to connect the printer physically to the machine - mine has a parellel interface. Wolfgang ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.quanta.org.uk/mailing.htm
Re: [ql-users] QL2004
Geoff wrote:- Also Sin-QL-Air backed the show financially - where else in the QL show circuit do you get free coffee and pay only 50 euros for a roll? (I mean bread rolls - I know we were in the Netherlands, but the other sort of roll is known as a stikkie there.) 50 euro for a roll? God, you'd get a four course meal with a bottle of wine here for that :-)) Just joking, I know you probably mean 50 cent (and not the gangsta rapper either..) Darren. This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If you have received this email in error please notify us immediately at [EMAIL PROTECTED] and delete this E-mail from your system. Thank you. It is possible for data transmitted by email to be deliberately or accidentally corrupted or intercepted. For this reason, where the communication is by email, the Bank of Ireland Group does not accept any responsibility for any breach of confidence which may arise through the use of this medium. This footnote also confirms that this email message has been swept for the presence of known computer viruses. ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.quanta.org.uk/mailing.htm
Re: [ql-users] Canon Printers
Put another way my life is not dominated by the QL. When I have to buy a new printer there will be a lot of things I shall take into account in making my choice and the QL is just one of them. I am not going to waste time or money looking for a QL compatible printer when the QL community has pussyfooted for years on solving the problem. More provocatively, in April 2004 three leading lights of the QL community sat on a Florida beach and decided that solving the printer problem was one of the main tasks for the 12 months ahead. We are now almost halfway through that 12 months. Could they give a progress report please? Well, we did not decide it was one of the main tasks, we all KNOW it is extremely important. However, there does not seem to be an easy solution. We discussed it several times later, but it still looks like a very difficult task. In the end, we need an easy-to-use, transparent solution, which needs to work on more platforms than QPC. This makes it even more difficult. Jochen ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.quanta.org.uk/mailing.htm
Re: [ql-users] QL 2004 Eindhoven - no! QL2005!!!! @ ?????
- Original Message - From: Dilwyn Jones Subject: Re: [ql-users] QL 2004 Eindhoven - no! QL2005 @ ? Not sure how easy access would be for international visits - is the local area served by an international airport for example? What are rail connections like to the south coast sea ports and Birmingham and London airports? I mentioned Portishead mainly because of the quality of the hall. Road transport is excellent because of the nearness of the M5 Junction 19. Public Transport to Bristol is also good, but from then on it can be difficult. Another advantage is a Travel Inn about 100 yards from the hall. Also interesting as a venue because we have a nice group of members in the Bath/Bristol/South Wales area who have not had a show for some time. Best Wishes, Geoff ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.quanta.org.uk/mailing.htm
Re: [ql-users] QL2004
Subject: Re: [ql-users] QL2004 Geoff wrote:- Also Sin-QL-Air backed the show financially - where else in the QL show circuit do you get free coffee and pay only 50 euros for a roll? (I mean bread rolls - I know we were in the Netherlands, but the other sort of roll is known as a stikkie there.) 50 euro for a roll? God, you'd get a four course meal with a bottle of wine here for that :-)) Just joking, I know you probably mean 50 cent (and not the gangsta rapper either..) No Darren. 50 Euros per roll. They were exceptionally good rolls ;-)) Geoff ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.quanta.org.uk/mailing.htm
Re: [ql-users] QL 2004 Eindhoven - no! QL2005!!!! @ ?????
- Original Message - From: Tony Firshman Subject: Re: [ql-users] QL 2004 Eindhoven - no! QL2005 @ ? I remember Quanta saying the Horizon Centre was too expensive. I liked the Walton Park Hotel, but I suspect that is expensive too. Not exactly convenient though for overseas visitors or people North of Watford. As I understand it the Horizon Centre is no longer available for events of this nature. I believe Roy had already checked that out. For a major intenational show I am not so worried about expense as Quanta has the money. Not sure how easy access would be for international visits - is the local area served by an international airport for example? What are rail connections like to the south coast sea ports and Birmingham and London airports? Frequent direct rail services from Birmingham to Bristol and through trains from Bristol to major South Coast towns. International Airport at Bristol on the Portishead side of the city. Best Wishes, Geoff ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.quanta.org.uk/mailing.htm
Re: [ql-users] Canon Printers
- Original Message - From: Marcel Kilgus Subject: Re: [ql-users] Canon Printers gwicks wrote: More provocatively, in April 2004 three leading lights of the QL community sat on a Florida beach and decided that solving the printer problem was one of the main tasks for the 12 months ahead. We are now almost halfway through that 12 months. Could they give a progress report please? Third beach boy speaking. Thing is, I haven't printed from an QL system for probably a decade. *I* don't need printing. *Despite* this fact I put all the thoughts and work into it that I did. The response as you probably know was next to nil, so I pretty much stopped caring. Thanks for the reply and to Jochen and Roy too. I did post this item a bit tongue in cheek to illustrate the point that we are unlikely to get a quick or easy solution to the printer problem. In fact I am moving in the same direction as you. I prefer to do all Just Words! work on a laser, which is cheaper and more durable than an inkjet. It is easy to transfer to PC format via QL-2-PC Transfer and save to dos1_. This can then be picked up by a PC program. Other QL output can be saved to file and then transferred to PC. At the beginning of this year I moved all my spreadsheets to PC. I prefer it because it is easier to use both Euros and £s together in a spreadsheet and also much easier to print out because PCs use vector fonts. Even LineDesign output can be transferred to PC format. Now wordprocessing.. Best Wishes, Geoff ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.quanta.org.uk/mailing.htm
Re: [ql-users] Printers
I thought I'd replied to this earlier but it doesn't seem to have appeared from the list, so apologies if this is duplication. First thing I need to ask is: with these Windows-only printers, what is the printing mechanism? Do they take Postscript or some form of raster graphics output (or is this essentially the same thing)? Or do we then need a 'postscript printer' or 'postscript to non-esp/p(2)' converter to finally get the output to the printer. In terms of postscripting files, Marcel has done us a favour here with mps.bas, a SBASIC version (well written, quite easy to follow the code with all the REMs and meaningful names) of mps which you can also get from his website. Richard Urena's original program also comes with C source for those who prefer to tinker in C. Is the Windows-only printer rastering mechanism the same for all Windows-only printers or are we back to the same old problem, need a different driver for each and every model of printer? While Proforma (as distinct from the full Prowess system) is clearly the obvious way to take this, I'm sure only a few QLers use it. Never seem to hear from anyone who does! Also, existing programs can't print direct to it, you'd have to go via intermediate files and filters. My preferred route would be a virtual device driver. You'd print to a device called 'EPS' or 'PCL' and it would drive a Windows-only printer on your QL printer port (which would need to be configurable for PAR, SER1, SER2 and all combinations thereof). It would be Epson or HP PCL in, getting translated to Windows-only printer output and the user would need little or no knowledge of what's going on. Such a device driver or virtual device driver (I'm not sure if it's possible to create a device driver called EPS which routes its output to another device called PAR or SER, in other words if one driver can send output to another). The above is a five minute ramble from someone who hasn't tried to look at the practicalities in any detail whatsoever. Hopefully, it'll generate ideas, encourage discussion and in true mailing list style someone will respond and ideas will get thrown around. At the end of the day, we need a solution which is completely portable - it'll work on a QL (and we'll have to accept it has to be a well expanded memory system since a 300 dpi mono A4 page can take at least 1MB to render as pixel or raster mapped graphics even before you add colour), a Q40, Aurora, emulator etc, not just something running in Windows. Wolfgang's suggestion for a Proforma based filter is perfectly valid, and we also need to look beyond that, otherwise we'll end up with a system which is not really an answer if we have to think in terms of how to generate a valid input file which the filter can process if only we can remember the command line to start the filter in the first place! Can I generate something like a Quill _lis file (oh, what is a Quill _lis file)? OK, am I able to use an Epson printer driver to create it? Shove it through mps.bas or Wolfgang's program. Does it go straight to the printer? No, what has been generated? Postscript. Aha! now how do I get that to the printer? COPY_N ... TO PAR? Oh, I need Ghostscript. Drat. I remember trying to set that up once, never again. Back to the drawing board. This is obviously quite a task ahead of us. Throwing a bit of negativity into the equation will hopefully help encourage list members to fire ideas at Wolfgang to help produce the best possible solution. Dilwyn Jones Wolfgang Lenerz wrote: What I would like to know is just from WHAT people would like to print. If this is still Xchange (Quill), or more or less anything that still produces ASCII codes as output (don't know about perfection or text87) - why don't we use ProForma? I have this (modern) Samsung Laser printer speaking a language any QL related software really doesn't understand - except for ProForma, and I regularly print things on the printer through it. The printer uses PCL 4, like many other printers on the market and there is a printer driver available for it under Proforma. Also, isn't somebody selling a more up to date printer driver for Epsons? So somebody knows how to write Proforma printer drivers (other than Joachim himself, of course) Anyway, so I drive my printer more or less directly from a Basic prog, but a small filter that would take the _lis file from Quill, convert it (for bold and so on) and squirt it to the printer (in the non-proportional courier font ) isn't that difficult to do. I even volunteer to write that if there is some interest. This does presume, however, the the user has, at least, some memory extension, to run Proforma! This also assumes that there is some way to connect the printer physically to the machine - mine has a parellel interface. Wolfgang ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.quanta.org.uk/mailing.htm
Re: [ql-users] QL2004
Hmmm, must have been for the entire vanful you sold at the show then. Seem to remember something recently about a French sandwich seller who came here to sell French sandwiches but used bread he'd bought at M S over here, wonder if they were the ?50 versions as well :-) Dilwyn Jones - Original Message - From: gwicks [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, October 20, 2004 7:25 PM Subject: Re: [ql-users] QL2004 Subject: Re: [ql-users] QL2004 Geoff wrote:- Also Sin-QL-Air backed the show financially - where else in the QL show circuit do you get free coffee and pay only 50 euros for a roll? (I mean bread rolls - I know we were in the Netherlands, but the other sort of roll is known as a stikkie there.) 50 euro for a roll? God, you'd get a four course meal with a bottle of wine here for that :-)) Just joking, I know you probably mean 50 cent (and not the gangsta rapper either..) No Darren. 50 Euros per roll. They were exceptionally good rolls ;-)) Geoff ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.quanta.org.uk/mailing.htm ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.quanta.org.uk/mailing.htm
Re: [ql-users] QL2004
Geoff wrote:- Also Sin-QL-Air backed the show financially - where else in the QL show circuit do you get free coffee and pay only 50 euros for a roll? (I mean bread rolls - I know we were in the Netherlands, but the other sort of roll is known as a stikkie there.) 50 euro for a roll? God, you'd get a four course meal with a bottle of wine here for that :-)) Just joking, I know you probably mean 50 cent (and not the gangsta rapper either..) No Darren. 50 Euros per roll. They were exceptionally good rolls ;-)) @ £34.61p each they must have been B--Y good rolls!!! Cheers Colin ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.quanta.org.uk/mailing.htm
Re: [ql-users] Printers
Dilwyn Jones wrote: First thing I need to ask is: with these Windows-only printers, what is the printing mechanism? Do they take Postscript or some form of raster graphics output (or is this essentially the same thing)? Those two are on completely different ends of the printer language spectrum. Postscript is basically a complete programming language (I have seen raytracers written in it), Windows or GDI printers just take plain raster graphics in, the rasterization is done by the Windows driver. Or do we then need a 'postscript printer' or 'postscript to non-esp/p(2)' converter to finally get the output to the printer. Right. In terms of postscripting files, Marcel has done us a favour here with mps.bas, a SBASIC version (well written, quite easy to follow the code with all the REMs and meaningful names) of mps which you can also get from his website. Richard Urena's original program also comes with C source for those who prefer to tinker in C. The mentioned epsonps is even cooler for translating Quill output. Is the Windows-only printer rastering mechanism the same for all Windows-only printers or are we back to the same old problem, need a different driver for each and every model of printer? Different driver for each and every model. Therefore your solution is not practicable. The advantage of Ghostscript is solely that many non-ql programmers write drivers for it. A resource one could take advantage of. Postscript. Aha! now how do I get that to the printer? COPY_N ... TO PAR? In QPC this would indeed be how you could do it. Oh, I need Ghostscript. Drat. I remember trying to set that up once, never again. Back to the drawing board. If you prefer a drawing board over a printer... but if you are serious about supporting as many printers as possible there is NO WAY around using Ghostscript. In my humble opinion, that is. Of course one could now switch everything to PCL. But the instant this is done manufacturers will surely drop PCL support. Marcel ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.quanta.org.uk/mailing.htm
Re: [ql-users] Printers
On 20 Oct 2004 at 23:00, Dilwyn Jones wrote: (...) Can I generate something like a Quill _lis file (oh, what is a Quill _lis file)? F3 - print, whole, to ram1_p. This generates the file ram1_p_lis. Not *too* difficult, I should think. OK, am I able to use an Epson printer driver to create it? No, you'd basically need a new Quill printer driver which would be pretty simple to set up (e.g. bold on:b, bold off: /b I could supply one for Xchange Quill if needed. This is obviously quite a task ahead of us. Throwing a bit of negativity into the equation will hopefully help encourage list members to fire ideas at Wolfgang to help produce the best possible solution. Wolfgang ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.quanta.org.uk/mailing.htm
