Re: [ql-users] qdos gcc problem
Dear Peter How do you get on the QL developers list? I tried sometime ago and never heard a thing John - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: ql-developers@quanta.org.uk Sent: Tuesday, November 16, 2004 1:28 PM Subject: Re: [ql-users] qdos gcc problem Michael Grunditz wrote: The qdos-gcc libc does not compile on ppc linux, any hints ? You could try to post such issues to the ql-developers list. Maybe some who deal with crosscompiling or Linux are still subscribed there. I only have a sloppy look at ql-users archives now and then, but that happens rather seldom. So if you want me to see follow-ups soon, please keep the cc ql-developers. Before going into the details, it needs to be checked which exact GCC sources you are using, and which patches you have applied. There is a step- by-step instruction on how to build qdos-gcc at http://thgodef.nerim.net/qdos/qdosgcc.html Do you refer to that? If so, I think it can't work on PPC Linux without further modification. I have not specificly dealt with PPC Linux, but built qdos-gcc for 68k Linux, and had several endianess related problems. You probably know that x86 stores data in little-endian format, but the PPC (although it could hardware-wise also run in little-endian mode) uses big endian like 68k. There's a way to fix the endianess problems, but I don't remember the exact steps from memory. I could reproduce and document them for you with some effort, but I have little motivation to do so, for another reason: I found that qdos-gcc generates wrong code from long macros, which are e.g. used in some usual string operations. I reproduced the same effect under x86 Linux, 68k Linux and cygwin, so I'm pretty sure it's not an OS or library issue. I created a simplified example which eases reproduction of this problem, but nobody ever seemed (able) to care. Consequently, I stopped using qdos-gcc, it's too unreliable for me. The QL has no source- level C debugger, so it is already hard enough to debug larger projects _without_ additional serious compiler problems. In the end I had to turn back to good old native C68. Recently I have also patched the C68 (+assembler +linker +archiver) sources for MacOS X. The resulting cross-toolchain (PPC/MacOSX to 68k/QDOS) seemed to work OK. At least I was able to build my ethernet, tcp, email and web stuff, including the assembler sources. I had no time for further tests yet. If it helps, and somebody has the webspace, I can upload my C68 stuff for MacOS X somewhere. That would be quick and dirty as it is. I don't know exactly how much MacOS X and Linux differ with respect to compiling C68, but since both are POSIX compliant and use GCC, there shouldn't be too much. An alternative might be to hunt for Jonathan Hudson's old XTC68 sources. BTW it's a pity that the latest C68 sources are not accessible. Classic C68 has quite oldish behaviour, e.g. it doesn't even tolerate // comment markers. Some time ago I notified Dave about the problems with his website, but they don't seem fixed yet. All the best Peter ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.quanta.org.uk/mailing.htm ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: [ql-users] qdos gcc problem
Michael Grunditz wrote: The qdos-gcc libc does not compile on ppc linux, any hints ? You could try to post such issues to the ql-developers list. Maybe some who deal with crosscompiling or Linux are still subscribed there. I only have a sloppy look at ql-users archives now and then, but that happens rather seldom. So if you want me to see follow-ups soon, please keep the cc ql-developers. Before going into the details, it needs to be checked which exact GCC sources you are using, and which patches you have applied. There is a step- by-step instruction on how to build qdos-gcc at http://thgodef.nerim.net/qdos/qdosgcc.html Do you refer to that? If so, I think it can't work on PPC Linux without further modification. I have not specificly dealt with PPC Linux, but built qdos-gcc for 68k Linux, and had several endianess related problems. You probably know that x86 stores data in little-endian format, but the PPC (although it could hardware-wise also run in little-endian mode) uses big endian like 68k. There's a way to fix the endianess problems, but I don't remember the exact steps from memory. I could reproduce and document them for you with some effort, but I have little motivation to do so, for another reason: I found that qdos-gcc generates wrong code from long macros, which are e.g. used in some usual string operations. I reproduced the same effect under x86 Linux, 68k Linux and cygwin, so I'm pretty sure it's not an OS or library issue. I created a simplified example which eases reproduction of this problem, but nobody ever seemed (able) to care. Consequently, I stopped using qdos-gcc, it's too unreliable for me. The QL has no source- level C debugger, so it is already hard enough to debug larger projects _without_ additional serious compiler problems. In the end I had to turn back to good old native C68. Recently I have also patched the C68 (+assembler +linker +archiver) sources for MacOS X. The resulting cross-toolchain (PPC/MacOSX to 68k/QDOS) seemed to work OK. At least I was able to build my ethernet, tcp, email and web stuff, including the assembler sources. I had no time for further tests yet. If it helps, and somebody has the webspace, I can upload my C68 stuff for MacOS X somewhere. That would be quick and dirty as it is. I don't know exactly how much MacOS X and Linux differ with respect to compiling C68, but since both are POSIX compliant and use GCC, there shouldn't be too much. An alternative might be to hunt for Jonathan Hudson's old XTC68 sources. BTW it's a pity that the latest C68 sources are not accessible. Classic C68 has quite oldish behaviour, e.g. it doesn't even tolerate // comment markers. Some time ago I notified Dave about the problems with his website, but they don't seem fixed yet. All the best Peter ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.quanta.org.uk/mailing.htm
Re: [ql-users] qdos gcc problem
Tue, 16 Nov 2004 14:28:14 +0100,() [EMAIL PROTECTED] /wrote: Michael Grunditz wrote: The qdos-gcc libc does not compile on ppc linux, any hints ? snip I have had tons of problems with qdos-gcc so I abandoned it altogether myself... no time to fix :-) In the end I had to turn back to good old native C68. Recently I have also patched the C68 (+assembler +linker +archiver) sources for MacOS X. The resulting cross-toolchain (PPC/MacOSX to 68k/QDOS) seemed to work OK. At least I was able to build my ethernet, tcp, email and web stuff, including the assembler sources. I had no time for further tests yet. If it helps, and somebody has the webspace, I can upload my C68 stuff for MacOS X somewhere. That would be quick and dirty as it is. I don't know exactly how much MacOS X and Linux differ with respect to compiling C68, but since both are POSIX compliant and use GCC, there shouldn't be too much. I have the necessary space :-) I will open up something for you today :-) An alternative might be to hunt for Jonathan Hudson's old XTC68 sources. I have had a lot of trouble but at the end managed to compile a version of XTC68 under Microsoft Visual C ++ (That's the way Dave does it as well). A ton of macros had to be fixed and conditions updated but it basically works :-P BTW it's a pity that the latest C68 sources are not accessible. Classic C68 has quite oldish behaviour, e.g. it doesn't even tolerate // comment markers. Some time ago I notified Dave about the problems with his website, but they don't seem fixed yet. Dave had told me that he planned on doing that about a year ago. I suspect he's extremely busy (like most of us) and he hadn't had the time. He did point me though to the right direction, however with missing sources you run the problem of inconsistencies between parts of the compiler suite. In reality (and I have used it so I know it works) even the old XTC-68 with updated libraries (ie the q40 library and the gd2 library) will work fine and even in conjuction with an ide such as the Bloodshed C IDE (I wrote an article on QLT on the subject a while ago). More over using the latest c68 sources one could make a more efficient XTC-68 environment. I was able only to cross compile cc, make and as68 but for the rest I had to use the old XTC-68 NT binaries as the newer sources had problems. I have notes on the subject somewhere... I will try to locate them Cheers, Phoebus ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.quanta.org.uk/mailing.htm
[ql-users] qdos gcc problem
Hi The qdos-gcc libc does not compile on ppc linux, any hints ? signal/psignal.o signal/raiseu.o signal/sendsig.o signal/signal.o signal/sigset.o signal/sigaction.o signal/sigaddset.o signal/sigcleanup.o signal/sigdebug.o signal/sigdelset.o signal/sigemptyset.o signal/sigfillset.o signal/sighold.o signal/sigignore.o signal/siginit.o signal/sigismember.o signal/siglongjmp.o signal/signocnt.o signal/signoimp.o signal/signomsg.o signal/sigpause.o signal/sigpending.o signal/sigprintf.o signal/sigprocmask.o signal/sigrelse.o signal/sigsetjmp.o signal/sigsuspend.o signal/sigtimer.o LIBRARY ORDER ANALYSIS Processing file defaults/Cstart.o ERROR 17: File 'defaults/Cstart.o' not an SROFF file /Michael ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.quanta.org.uk/mailing.htm
Re: [ql-users] qdos gcc problem
In message [EMAIL PROTECTED] you wrote: Hi The qdos-gcc libc does not compile on ppc linux, any hints ? signal/sigtimer.o LIBRARY ORDER ANALYSIS Processing file defaults/Cstart.o ERROR 17: File 'defaults/Cstart.o' not an SROFF file /Michael when I tried a new make clean and make again I got: Sozobon Assembler, Version 2.0 Copyright (c) 1988,1991 by Sozobon, Limited /usr/local/qdos/bin/as -V -DQDOS -DAS68 -DHW_FPU -DGCC_MATH init/Cinit.x -o init/Cinit.o Sozobon Assembler, Version 2.0 Copyright (c) 1988,1991 by Sozobon, Limited jas: line 191 ( illegal instruction ) Faulty pre-processed source saved as: init/Cinit.x.i make: *** [init/Cinit.o] Error 1 /Michael ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.quanta.org.uk/mailing.htm
Re: [ql-users] QDOS
On Thu, 14 Oct 2004 05:55:33 EDT, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Back in the annals of history, there was a QDOS released for PCs There was a program called QDOS II from Gazelle Systems. It was a DOS shell program, like Norton Commander or Cueshell for the QL. I think it came out in the late 1980's. I was surprized that they did not get sued by Sinclair for using the QDOS name. Tim Swenson ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.quanta.org.uk/mailing.htm
Re: [ql-users] QDOS
Dilwyn Jones wrote: The only other QDOS I've ever heard of was an old PC operating system, a predecessor to CPM I think, called Quick and Dirty Operating System. Don't know if that was the official name or just something someone made up about it in the same way as QDOS in Qludged early QLs were nickname Quite Delayed Operating System. QDOS was the name of the CP/M clone for the 8086 that Bill Gates bought and renamed MS-DOS 1.0... The name comes from the fact that it was written as a quick and dirty OS to get an 8086 board up and running... which explains a lot! John ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.quanta.org.uk/mailing.htm
Re: [ql-users] QDOS
Dilwyn Jones wrote: The only other QDOS I've ever heard of was an old PC operating system, a predecessor to CPM I think, called Quick and Dirty Operating System. Don't know if that was the official name or just something someone made up about it in the same way as QDOS in Qludged early QLs were nickname Quite Delayed Operating System. QDOS was the name of the CP/M clone for the 8086 that Bill Gates bought and renamed MS-DOS 1.0... The name comes from the fact that it was written as a quick and dirty OS to get an 8086 board up and running... which explains a lot! John And he bought it for 50,000 Dollars, which when you consider how much he made out of MS-DOS, was a bit of a Bargain Darren. This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If you have received this email in error please notify us immediately at [EMAIL PROTECTED] and delete this E-mail from your system. Thank you. It is possible for data transmitted by email to be deliberately or accidentally corrupted or intercepted. For this reason, where the communication is by email, the Bank of Ireland Group does not accept any responsibility for any breach of confidence which may arise through the use of this medium. This footnote also confirms that this email message has been swept for the presence of known computer viruses. ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.quanta.org.uk/mailing.htm
Re: Re: [ql-users] QDOS
The only other QDOS I've ever heard of was an old PC operating system, a predecessor to CPM I think, called Quick and Dirty Operating System. Don't know if that was the official name or just something someone made up about it in the same way as QDOS in Qludged early QLs were nickname Quite Delayed Operating System. QDOS was the name of the CP/M clone for the 8086 that Bill Gates bought and renamed MS-DOS 1.0... The name comes from the fact that it was written as a quick and dirty OS to get an 8086 board up and running... which explains a lot! John Typical. He asked for a QDOS for PCs and ends up with MSDOS1.0. That's progress for you. If I asked for a Q60 and got given a ZX80, I think that's how I'd feel :-( Dilwyn Jones ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.quanta.org.uk/mailing.htm
