Re: [qmailtoaster] Advantage/Disadvantage ...??
I don't use LVM. I have two disks, one for the system install, and one for the /var and /home dir. Advantage: I can install a new operating system, without loosing data. I have a private server on CentOS (qmail, http, foswiki, samba, download progs). For a production server this can be different. Richard Vinke. On 09/24/2009 10:45 PM, Patrick Ring wrote: I'm loading up a fresh QmailToaster (to be used as a cache/backup) and usually I've always been under the assumption that it is best to do away with the LVM groups and format the partitions direct to the drive. Is there an advantage to using LVM vs not using LVM for QmailToaster? I know this is a matter of opinion but I'd like to know what others are doing... Thank you, Patrick M. Ring P. Ring Technologies Louisiana Web Host, LLC. 985-868-4200 attachment: richard.vcf- Qmailtoaster is sponsored by Vickers Consulting Group (www.vickersconsulting.com) Vickers Consulting Group offers Qmailtoaster support and installations. If you need professional help with your setup, contact them today! - Please visit qmailtoaster.com for the latest news, updates, and packages. To unsubscribe, e-mail: qmailtoaster-list-unsubscr...@qmailtoaster.com For additional commands, e-mail: qmailtoaster-list-h...@qmailtoaster.com
Re: [qmailtoaster] Advantage/Disadvantage ...??
Patrick Ring wrote: I'm loading up a fresh QmailToaster (to be used as a cache/backup) and usually I've always been under the assumption that it is best to do away with the LVM groups and format the partitions direct to the drive. Is there an advantage to using LVM vs not using LVM for QmailToaster? I know this is a matter of opinion but I'd like to know what others are doing... LVM gives you extra tools, such as expanding the drives (where you add an extra drive, add it to the LVM, and you then have a striped system just like RAID 0 (but without the same size limitation)). So you can dynamically increase the drive size. LVM gives you some other RAID-like features. I personally do not use it because the tools for recovering data are unfamiliar to me (and have given me problems in the past) so I stick with more traditional RAID systems. Just my experience and 2-cents.
Re: [qmailtoaster] Advantage/Disadvantage ...??
Patrick Ring wrote: So far between the couple of answer I've got here, and the research I had been doing. The concensus is about the same. ...It seems people who have been around Linux for a while prefer the straight partitioning methods. I would personally think that LVM would put a slight performance load on the server as well which could hinder the sometimes very disk intensive nature of QmailToaster and its packages. Probably a very true statement (about people who have been around Linux a while). LVM does incur a write delay depending on hardware (read: most hardware) but provides a speed boost on reads, like RAID 0 would since you're reading from multiple drives at the same time. For your average network connection, this is not noticed in any form. There is a big difference in the speed of network connections (mega BITS) compared to a physical drive (mega BYTES). OT - I get a ironic chuckle out of the people that NEED the 100Mb wireless routers because their Internet is slow on their cable modem (5Mb down).
RE: [qmailtoaster] Advantage/Disadvantage ...??
OT - I get a ironic chuckle out of the people that NEED the 100Mb wireless routers because their Internet is slow on their cable modem (5Mb down). I've heard this too! :-P But, I guess in perspective, you're right about the performance versus bandwidth. I guess I was looking at it from a spam/virus perspective. It seems the verdict is that if you are setting up for what is to be a very static load with near static storage needs, just use straight partitioning. Use LVM if you are trying to stay with a budget system that might have to grow in the near future. From that point of view, Jake, what format method does the QMT ISO disk use (the one based on the newer CentOS 5)? I saw it in a video, but didn't take notice of whether it used LVM (usually a default in CentOS) or not. Thanks, Pat. From: Jake Vickers [mailto:j...@qmailtoaster.com] Sent: 2009-09-25 07:38 To: qmailtoaster-list@qmailtoaster.com Subject: Re: [qmailtoaster] Advantage/Disadvantage ...?? Patrick Ring wrote: So far between the couple of answer I've got here, and the research I had been doing. The concensus is about the same. ...It seems people who have been around Linux for a while prefer the straight partitioning methods. I would personally think that LVM would put a slight performance load on the server as well which could hinder the sometimes very disk intensive nature of QmailToaster and its packages. Probably a very true statement (about people who have been around Linux a while). LVM does incur a write delay depending on hardware (read: most hardware) but provides a speed boost on reads, like RAID 0 would since you're reading from multiple drives at the same time. For your average network connection, this is not noticed in any form. There is a big difference in the speed of network connections (mega BITS) compared to a physical drive (mega BYTES). OT - I get a ironic chuckle out of the people that NEED the 100Mb wireless routers because their Internet is slow on their cable modem (5Mb down).
Re: [qmailtoaster] Advantage/Disadvantage ...??
W dniu 24.09.2009 22:45, Patrick Ring pisze: I'm loading up a fresh QmailToaster (to be used as a cache/backup) and usually I've always been under the assumption that it is best to do away with the LVM groups and format the partitions direct to the drive. Is there an advantage to using LVM vs not using LVM for QmailToaster? I know this is a matter of opinion but I'd like to know what others are doing... Thank you, Patrick M. Ring P. Ring Technologies Louisiana Web Host, LLC. 985-868-4200 LVM is very helpfull if you have 2 hard disks and RAID-1 (mirror) /boot - /dev/md0 - raid1 (sda1, sda2) - small partion VolGroup00 - /dev/md1 - raid1 (sda2, sdb2) - rest of disk Then with LVM I can create as many partition as I need: /dev/mapper/VolGroup00-LogVol00 on / type ext3 (rw) /dev/mapper/VolGroup00-LogVol01 on /var type ext3 (rw,mand) /dev/mapper/VolGroup00-LogVol02 - swap /dev/mapper/VolGroup00-LogVol03 on /tmp type ext3 (rw) /dev/mapper/VolGroup00-LogVol04 on /home type ext3 (rw) /dev/mapper/VolGroup00-LogVol05 on /samba type ext3 (rw) /dev/mapper/VolGroup00-LogVol06 on /samba1 type ext3 (rw) and /dev/md0 on /boot type ext3 (rw) Separate parttions for users system resources is more secure. Only 2 physical partions simplify RAID creation (and restoring). -- Pozdrawiam / Regards, Aleksander Podsiad?y mail: a...@westside.kielce.pl jid: a...@jabber.westside.kielce.pl ICQ: 201121279 gg: 9150578
Re: [qmailtoaster] Advantage/Disadvantage ...??
Patrick Ring wrote: OT - I get a ironic chuckle out of the people that NEED the 100Mb wireless routers because their Internet is slow on their cable modem (5Mb down). I've heard this too! :-P But, I guess in perspective, you're right about the performance versus bandwidth. I guess I was looking at it from a spam/virus perspective. It seems the verdict is that if you are setting up for what is to be a very static load with near static storage needs, just use straight partitioning. Use LVM if you are trying to stay with a budget system that might have to grow in the near future. From that point of view, Jake, what format method does the QMT ISO disk use (the one based on the newer CentOS 5)? I saw it in a video, but didn't take notice of whether it used LVM (usually a default in CentOS) or not. Straight partitions, no LVM. You can also add RAID later this way as well. I think on a server level, RAID is a better choice than LVM since you have fault-tolerance (assuming correct RAID level). You *can* do LVM on a RAID, but then you're just trying to prove you can set up difficult/unnecessary scenarios at that point, IMHO. You get the same performance read/write wise on a RAID 5 (for example) with fault tolerance, versus LVM. It costs you an extra drive to get this, but if you're supplying services to other customers you have to ask yourself what this is worth to you. I know I've already lost countless files (including family photos of relatives no longer with us) due to a drive failing in a striped LVM. I hate wearing that T-Shirt and vowed to never do it again.
RE: [qmailtoaster] Advantage/Disadvantage ...??
So it becomes very flexible when used that way. This would lead to being able to make changes easily (once you learn the LVM tools that is...). I've used QMT for a good 4+ years now, but I've always done a very simple install. I'm having to expand out now to accomodate larger needs. So, platform configs start to matter. I really appreciate this insight. Thanks, Pat. From: Aleksander Podsiadly [mailto:a...@westside.kielce.pl] Sent: 2009-09-25 07:56 To: qmailtoaster-list@qmailtoaster.com Subject: Re: [qmailtoaster] Advantage/Disadvantage ...?? W dniu 24.09.2009 22:45, Patrick Ring pisze: I'm loading up a fresh QmailToaster (to be used as a cache/backup) and usually I've always been under the assumption that it is best to do away with the LVM groups and format the partitions direct to the drive. Is there an advantage to using LVM vs not using LVM for QmailToaster? I know this is a matter of opinion but I'd like to know what others are doing... Thank you, Patrick M. Ring P. Ring Technologies Louisiana Web Host, LLC. 985-868-4200 LVM is very helpfull if you have 2 hard disks and RAID-1 (mirror) /boot - /dev/md0 - raid1 (sda1, sda2) - small partion VolGroup00 - /dev/md1 - raid1 (sda2, sdb2) - rest of disk Then with LVM I can create as many partition as I need: /dev/mapper/VolGroup00-LogVol00 on / type ext3 (rw) /dev/mapper/VolGroup00-LogVol01 on /var type ext3 (rw,mand) /dev/mapper/VolGroup00-LogVol02 - swap /dev/mapper/VolGroup00-LogVol03 on /tmp type ext3 (rw) /dev/mapper/VolGroup00-LogVol04 on /home type ext3 (rw) /dev/mapper/VolGroup00-LogVol05 on /samba type ext3 (rw) /dev/mapper/VolGroup00-LogVol06 on /samba1 type ext3 (rw) and /dev/md0 on /boot type ext3 (rw) Separate parttions for users system resources is more secure. Only 2 physical partions simplify RAID creation (and restoring). -- Pozdrawiam / Regards, Aleksander Podsiadły mail: a...@westside.kielce.pl jid: a...@jabber.westside.kielce.pl ICQ: 201121279 gg: 9150578
Re: [qmailtoaster] Advantage/Disadvantage ...??
Aleksander Podsiadly wrote: W dniu 24.09.2009 22:45, Patrick Ring pisze: I'm loading up a fresh QmailToaster (to be used as a cache/backup) and usually I've always been under the assumption that it is best to do away with the LVM groups and format the partitions direct to the drive. Is there an advantage to using LVM vs not using LVM for QmailToaster? I know this is a matter of opinion but I'd like to know what others are doing... Thank you, Patrick M. Ring P. Ring Technologies Louisiana Web Host, LLC. 985-868-4200 LVM is very helpfull if you have 2 hard disks and RAID-1 (mirror) /boot - /dev/md0 - raid1 (sda1, sda2) - small partion VolGroup00 - /dev/md1 - raid1 (sda2, sdb2) - rest of disk Then with LVM I can create as many partition as I need: /dev/mapper/VolGroup00-LogVol00 on / type ext3 (rw) /dev/mapper/VolGroup00-LogVol01 on /var type ext3 (rw,mand) /dev/mapper/VolGroup00-LogVol02 - swap /dev/mapper/VolGroup00-LogVol03 on /tmp type ext3 (rw) /dev/mapper/VolGroup00-LogVol04 on /home type ext3 (rw) /dev/mapper/VolGroup00-LogVol05 on /samba type ext3 (rw) /dev/mapper/VolGroup00-LogVol06 on /samba1 type ext3 (rw) and /dev/md0 on /boot type ext3 (rw) Separate parttions for users system resources is more secure. Only 2 physical partions simplify RAID creation (and restoring). -- I use this method too (LVM on top of Raid1), with a separate /boot apart from the LVM. You can then use whatever partitioning you like within the LVM, and it's easy to adjust as you go. Much more flexible than static partitions. Once again, great minds think alike. ;) -- -Eric 'shubes' - Qmailtoaster is sponsored by Vickers Consulting Group (www.vickersconsulting.com) Vickers Consulting Group offers Qmailtoaster support and installations. If you need professional help with your setup, contact them today! - Please visit qmailtoaster.com for the latest news, updates, and packages. To unsubscribe, e-mail: qmailtoaster-list-unsubscr...@qmailtoaster.com For additional commands, e-mail: qmailtoaster-list-h...@qmailtoaster.com
[qmailtoaster] Advantage/Disadvantage ...??
I'm loading up a fresh QmailToaster (to be used as a cache/backup) and usually I've always been under the assumption that it is best to do away with the LVM groups and format the partitions direct to the drive. Is there an advantage to using LVM vs not using LVM for QmailToaster? I know this is a matter of opinion but I'd like to know what others are doing... Thank you, Patrick M. Ring P. Ring Technologies Louisiana Web Host, LLC. 985-868-4200
