Re: [qmailtoaster] Re: Server Mail

2009-10-30 Thread Jake Vickers

Eric Shubert wrote:

I'd like to know if this works, but I don't expect it will.

I believe that chkuser is not finding an MX record for the 
backup.mydomain.com domain, and this cannot be specified in the hosts 
file. An MX record for backup.mydomain.dom would need to be added to 
the authoritative DNS for the mydomain.com domain. While this would 
fix the problem, I don't think it's the best solution.


Fixing the problem at its source is preferable. (more on that elsewhere)



Adding an entry to DNS is the correct option. If a host does not have an 
MX record, it should not be sending mail. If a host without an MX record 
sends out mail, it's assumed that it's compromised and sending spam. I 
also believe there is an RFC about this.


Here's a hypothetical scenario:
Bob has 2 servers. He sets one up as an email server and correctly adds 
entries to DNS to support this (A record, MX record, PTR record, etc.).
Bob sets the second server up for web hosting, monitoring, whatever. 
There is a MTA agent on the system (we'll say Exim), but he never 
configured it and does not monitor it. He does however monitor his email 
server's logs.
One day, the web server starts sending mail to everyone is can find. Bob 
did not intend this server to send any mail, so he never configured DNS 
for it to support this (no MX record, no PTR record). It's easy for us 
to identify that messages from this server are not desired, since Bob 
never configured it in DNS to send mail. How else is the rest of the 
world supposed to know what hosts are allowed to send mail, and those 
that are not?
Bob opens one of these messages (since he was emailed one, and he 
configured his system to accept mail from invalid mail servers with no 
MX records) and now has a virus. His home computer is now spewing out 
thousands of spam messages a second to everyone in his address book.
Once again, it's easy for us to identify that messages from Bob's 
infected home computer are safe to drop since he never set up DNS to let 
us know it was intended to send emails (directly).


As email administrators, we have a responsibility to the rest of the 
world to set things up correctly. We need to let the rest of the world 
know that we want a specific machine to send mail by setting up the 
proper structure for it (MX record, PTR record, etc.). Think of the 
supporting entries in DNS as the license to send mail, just like you 
need a license to drive a car. We trust our systems (legal, DNS, 
otherwise) to correctly identify individuals (or machines) to do certain 
things (drive, send email, whatever), otherwise we have anarchy and chaos.


I understand that there are exceptions to every rule, and Mike has a 
valid exception to the above rules. The correct way for this to occur 
would be to set his other system up to authenticate to one of his QMT 
servers so it can send mail. Then he only has to manage one thing (DNS 
for 1 server). I've posted about a program called email in a past post 
about crons that would facilitate this.
Failing that, a couple simple config changes in Sendmail should fix this 
as well - don't ask me what they are. I only work on Qmail and Postfix 
and am assuming that it is easily configurable like Postfix or Qmail.


Just my 2-cents.


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Re: [qmailtoaster] Re: Server Mail

2009-10-30 Thread Jake Vickers

Maxwell Smart wrote:

Like this?

ip.of.server.dotted:allow,RELAYCLIENT=,DKSIGN=/var/qmail/control/domainkeys/%/private,RBLSMTPD=,NOP0FCHECK=1 


ip.of.server.dotted:allow



If you want to apply a line to multiple consecutive hosts, you can do this:

192.168.1.:allow,[whatever-else]

This equates out to allowing 192.168.1.0/24 (192.168.1.1 through 
192.168.1.254) to do whatever it is you intend it to do by adding 
directives.
If you only want to allow a couple machines (once again, they have to be 
consecutive):


192.168.1.20-25:allow,[whatever]

This allows the hosts 192.168.1.20 through 192.168.1.25 to do whatever 
it is you intend them to do in the tcp.smtp file.



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Re: [qmailtoaster] Re: Server Mail

2009-10-30 Thread Aleksander Podsiadly

W dniu 30.10.2009 18:32, Eric Shubert pisze:
While I agree with your position and hypothetical scenario, I don't 
believe that adding an MX record for each host is the correct nor best 
solution.


I don't see any purpose in adding an MX record for each host that 
sends email. [...]


That's right, have to be in DNS the MX record or A record for literal 
after ,,@''.


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Aleksander Podsiadły


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Re: [qmailtoaster] Re: Server Mail

2009-10-30 Thread Aleksander Podsiadly

W dniu 30.10.2009 20:43, Eric Shubert pisze:


I'm not (necessarily) disputing that. I believe that the sending 
server should probably not have the host name included in the address 
after the @. IE @host.domain.com should simply be @domain.com, and 
this is configured on the sending server.


One other point I'd like to make. If you create an MX record for 
host.domain.com, shouldn't host.domain.com also be defined in your 
toaster as local or alias domain? I would think it should. So now 
you're talking about a configuration change in DNS and the toaster for 
each host that's going to submit email, as opposed to (simply) 
configuring each server to authenticate. The later seems simpler to me.



http://www.ietf.org/rfc/rfc2821.txt
,,3.6 Domains

   Only resolvable, fully-qualified, domain names (FQDNs) are permitted
   when domain names are used in SMTP.  In other words, names that can
   be resolved to MX RRs or A RRs (as discussed in section 5) are
   permitted, as are CNAME RRs whose targets can be resolved, in turn,
   to MX or A RRs.  Local nicknames or unqualified names MUST NOT be
   used.  There are two exceptions to the rule requiring FQDNs:

   -  The domain name given in the EHLO command MUST BE either a primary
  host name (a domain name that resolves to an A RR) or, if the host
  has no name, an address literal as described in section 4.1.1.1.

   -  The reserved mailbox name postmaster may be used in a RCPT
  command without domain qualification (see section 4.1.1.3) and
  MUST be accepted if so used.''



--
Pozdrawiam / Regards,
Aleksander Podsiadły
mail: a...@westside.kielce.pl
jid: a...@jabber.westside.kielce.pl
ICQ: 201121279
gg: 9150578


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Re: [qmailtoaster] Re: Server Mail

2009-10-30 Thread Jake Vickers

Eric Shubert wrote:


While I agree with your position and hypothetical scenario, I don't 
believe that adding an MX record for each host is the correct nor best 
solution.


I don't see any purpose in adding an MX record for each host that 
sends email. An MX record is intended as an indication of where to 
send mail for a specific domain (destination), not an indication of 
'license to send' (as you put it). It has nothing to do with a source. 
(Please cite an RFC if I'm wrong on this). chkuser simply uses this as 
a (somewhat crude) way to verify the validity of the sender's domain, 
in case a bounce message would need to be sent later on.


Adding an MX record to allow a host with a default configuration to 
send mail is also dangerous and irresponsible. Giving any ol' server 
that can send mail by default a 'license to send email' is not (imo) a 
good practice. Any server that's sending mail should be properly 
configured, which I don't believe most default configurations are.


BL, these servers in question are problematic because their default 
configuration is set to use acco...@host.domain.com as the sending 
address. While adding an MX record will indeed allow such email to 
pass chkuser's filter, this MX record also announces to the world that 
mail to host.domain.com is being accepted by the specified server in 
the DNS record, which is clearly not the case. I believe that properly 
configuring the sending server to authenticate itself, just like 
everyone else who submits email, is the best solution.




No, a MX record is not the best choice for Mike's scenario. Don't 
confuse this with correct, nor twist it to mean that adding a MX record 
for any unconfigured host is correct or implied. We have two issues that 
look similar here.

His best choice will be to authenticate, IMHO, and we both agree on this.
RFCs do state that a domain must accept bounce messages if it sends 
messages (IIRC, paraphrased). How do I send a bounce to host.domain.com 
if there is no MX record?  If you're sending as host.domain.com then 
there must be an MX record to accept bounces/abuse/postmaster emails. I 
may have misinterpreted RFCs here. No, I won't go dig up RFCs on this. 
If someone wants to take the time to dig them up then I'm sure we'll all 
be appreciative.
(And why should I accept mail for a host that is incorrectly configured 
to send mail anyway? )
You're implying that I should change the default settings of chkuser to 
allow domains that do not have MX records, to make it easier to accept 
mail from servers that are not correctly configured, unless I'm 
misreading what you're typing. Seems to me this would cause one (most 
likely more) of 3 things:

more spam in everyone's boxes
additional load on spamassassin/clamav
everyone to go and change the tcp.smtp file to turn MX checking back on

IMHO the best choice is to leave it as is, and for those that want/need 
it changed to go and change it in their configuration. I'd rather not 
change something to make it easier for 10 people, and cause 100 other 
people to have to configure their systems to turn it back on. Even if it 
is just an entry in tcp.smtp. Not to mention documentation changes, 
typo-downtimes, traffic on the list, etc. A wiki page explaining how to 
recompile to change this setting seems the best choice for those that 
need to change it.


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Re: [qmailtoaster] Re: Server Mail

2009-10-30 Thread Maxwell Smart
OK,  here's my setup, slightly different, but seems to be same issue.  I
have a production mail server it's working perfectly fine.  I have a
test server on the LAN 192.168.0.195  I want it to be able to send the
logwatch e mails to my address on my production server, but I get this
error.

Connected to 64.168.70.133 but sender was rejected.
Remote host said: 511 sorry, can't find a valid MX for sender domain
(#5.1.1 - chkuser)

My understanding is that I can make these changes
change my current tcp.smtp

127.:allow,RELAYCLIENT=,DKSIGN=/var/qmail/control/domainkeys/%/private,RBLSMTPD=,NOP0FCHECK=1
:allow,BADMIMETYPE=,BADLOADERTYPE=M,CHKUSER_RCPTLIMIT=50,CHKUSER_WRONGRCPTLIMIT=10,QMAILQUEUE=/var/qmail/bin/simscan,DKSIGN=/var/qmail/control/domainkeys/%/private,NOP0FCHECK=1

to this

127.:allow,RELAYCLIENT=,DKSIGN=/var/qmail/control/domainkeys/%/private,RBLSMTPD=,NOP0FCHECK=1
192.168.0.195:allow,RELAYCLIENT=,DKSIGN=/var/qmail/control/domainkeys/%/private,RBLSMTPD=,NOP0FCHECK=1
:allow,BADMIMETYPE=,BADLOADERTYPE=M,CHKUSER_RCPTLIMIT=50,CHKUSER_WRONGRCPTLIMIT=10,QMAILQUEUE=/var/qmail/bin/simscan,DKSIGN=/var/qmail/control/domainkeys/%/private,NOP0FCHECK=1

run service qmail cdb

And I should be able to send mail to the production.   Is this the
recommended way of doing this?  I have tried and it doesn't work for me,
but I will try again if this is the correct method.  This is not
critical nor necessary.  This server will only be on the LAN for a few
day.  I really just want to know how it's correctly done.


Eric Shubert wrote:
 Aleksander Podsiadly wrote:
 W dniu 30.10.2009 18:32, Eric Shubert pisze:
 While I agree with your position and hypothetical scenario, I don't
 believe that adding an MX record for each host is the correct nor
 best solution.

 I don't see any purpose in adding an MX record for each host that
 sends email. [...]

 That's right, have to be in DNS the MX record or A record for literal
 after ,,@''.


 I'm not (necessarily) disputing that. I believe that the sending
 server should probably not have the host name included in the address
 after the @. IE @host.domain.com should simply be @domain.com, and
 this is configured on the sending server.

 One other point I'd like to make. If you create an MX record for
 host.domain.com, shouldn't host.domain.com also be defined in your
 toaster as local or alias domain? I would think it should. So now
 you're talking about a configuration change in DNS and the toaster for
 each host that's going to submit email, as opposed to (simply)
 configuring each server to authenticate. The later seems simpler to me.


-- 
Cecil Yother, Jr. cj

cj's
2318 Clement Ave
Alameda, CA   94501
tel 1.510.865.2787 | fax 1.510.864.7300
http://yother.com


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Re: [qmailtoaster] Re: Server Mail

2009-10-30 Thread d...@acbsco.com




Don't know if this is what you are looking for, but I have a server
with an private ip of 192.168.5.15 (pluto) running sendmail.  I have a
qmt server with private ip address 192.168.5.2 (mercury).  I want to
send all email (both local and remote) from pluto through mercury.  I
do the following:
on pluto (running sendmail).  I edit the /etc/mail/sendmail.cf file.  I
locate these lines
# "Smart" relay host (may be null)
DS
and replace with
# "Smart" relay host (may be null)
DSmercury

restart sendmail
/etc/init.d/sendmail restart

on mercury (running qmt)  I add this to my tcp.smtp file
192.168.5.15:allow,SENDER_NOCHECK="1",RELAYCLIENT="",NOP0FCHECK="1",DKVERIFY=""

reload the cdb
qmailctl cdb

I can now send email from pluto to any email address through mercury.

If this helps great.  If I am doing something dangerous, please let  me
know.

Thanks,
Dave






Maxwell Smart wrote:

  OK,  here's my setup, slightly different, but seems to be same issue.  I
have a production mail server it's working perfectly fine.  I have a
test server on the LAN 192.168.0.195  I want it to be able to send the
logwatch e mails to my address on my production server, but I get this
error.

Connected to 64.168.70.133 but sender was rejected.
Remote host said: 511 sorry, can't find a valid MX for sender domain
(#5.1.1 - chkuser)

My understanding is that I can make these changes
change my current tcp.smtp

127.:allow,RELAYCLIENT="",DKSIGN="/var/qmail/control/domainkeys/%/private",RBLSMTPD="",NOP0FCHECK="1"
:allow,BADMIMETYPE="",BADLOADERTYPE="M",CHKUSER_RCPTLIMIT="50",CHKUSER_WRONGRCPTLIMIT="10",QMAILQUEUE="/var/qmail/bin/simscan",DKSIGN="/var/qmail/control/domainkeys/%/private",NOP0FCHECK="1"

to this

127.:allow,RELAYCLIENT="",DKSIGN="/var/qmail/control/domainkeys/%/private",RBLSMTPD="",NOP0FCHECK="1"
192.168.0.195:allow,RELAYCLIENT="",DKSIGN="/var/qmail/control/domainkeys/%/private",RBLSMTPD="",NOP0FCHECK="1"
:allow,BADMIMETYPE="",BADLOADERTYPE="M",CHKUSER_RCPTLIMIT="50",CHKUSER_WRONGRCPTLIMIT="10",QMAILQUEUE="/var/qmail/bin/simscan",DKSIGN="/var/qmail/control/domainkeys/%/private",NOP0FCHECK="1"

run service qmail cdb

And I should be able to send mail to the production.   Is this the
recommended way of doing this?  I have tried and it doesn't work for me,
but I will try again if this is the correct method.  This is not
critical nor necessary.  This server will only be on the LAN for a few
day.  I really just want to know how it's correctly done.


Eric Shubert wrote:
  
  
Aleksander Podsiadly wrote:


  W dniu 30.10.2009 18:32, Eric Shubert pisze:
  
  
While I agree with your position and hypothetical scenario, I don't
believe that adding an MX record for each host is the correct nor
best solution.

I don't see any purpose in adding an MX record for each host that
sends email. [...]


  
  That's right, have to be in DNS the MX record or A record for literal
after ,,@''.

  

I'm not (necessarily) disputing that. I believe that the sending
server should probably not have the host name included in the address
after the @. IE @host.domain.com should simply be @domain.com, and
this is configured on the sending server.

One other point I'd like to make. If you create an MX record for
host.domain.com, shouldn't host.domain.com also be defined in your
toaster as local or alias domain? I would think it should. So now
you're talking about a configuration change in DNS and the toaster for
each host that's going to submit email, as opposed to (simply)
configuring each server to authenticate. The later seems simpler to me.


  
  
  




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Re: [qmailtoaster] Re: Server Mail

2009-10-29 Thread Maxwell Smart
Here I thought I was finally starting to understand this. :(  At least 
the DNS part was right.


Eric Shubert wrote:

I'd like to know if this works, but I don't expect it will.

I believe that chkuser is not finding an MX record for the 
backup.mydomain.com domain, and this cannot be specified in the hosts 
file. An MX record for backup.mydomain.dom would need to be added to 
the authoritative DNS for the mydomain.com domain. While this would 
fix the problem, I don't think it's the best solution.


Fixing the problem at its source is preferable. (more on that elsewhere)
Like the tcp.smtp file?  Did you see the other comment by Andreas?  Is 
that a valid fix?


Maxwell Smart wrote:

Mike,

I am not 100% sure, but I think you can put the MX address in the 
host file of the server that is rejecting the mail because of an 
invalid sender MX domain.  I am pretty sure it's because it can't 
resolve the address.


Host file entry
snip
77.60.23.95 backup.mydmain.com
/snip

or you may be able to add an entry in the local domain file.
I believe either solution will work.  Hopefully someone else can 
chime in to confirm.  I don't think the rcpt host file allows ip 
addresses.


CJ


Mike Canty wrote:

To All,
I now have in place three Qmail Toaster Servers in three different
locations.  These servers are part of individual networks, or whish 
there

are other CentOS and RedHat servers.

I am having issues with mail from the other servers as these are 
running
Sendmail by default.  The problem lies in the fact that I can send 
messages

from the Sendmail servers to the Toasters Servers, as long as they are
within the same network and they are not an alias/forward account.

The real issue is CHKUSER does its job too well and it rejects 
messages from

the Sendmail servers, if it's to be sent to another account or network.
This is the type of error I get...

@40004ae9186406b54edc CHKUSER rejected sender: from
r...@backup.mydomain.com:: remote
backup.mydomain.com:unknown:77.60.23.95 rcpt  : invalid sender 
MX domain


I understand that there are issues with servers that are not really
configured as a full Mail server, but what can I do to rectify this 
error.


Can someone please let me know what I need to do to the sendmail.cf 
file to
get around this.  Or what needs to be done to the Qmail Toaster 
settings to

allow the incorrect MX issue.

Cheers
Mike Canty






--
Cecil Yother, Jr. cj
cj's
2318 Clement Ave
Alameda, CA  94501

tel 510.865.2787 | fax 510.864.7300
http://yother.com


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Re: [qmailtoaster] Re: Server Mail

2009-10-29 Thread Maxwell Smart

Like this?

ip.of.server.dotted:allow,RELAYCLIENT=,DKSIGN=/var/qmail/control/domainkeys/%/private,RBLSMTPD=,NOP0FCHECK=1 


ip.of.server.dotted:allow

Eric Shubert wrote:

No. Use a separate line for that.

Maxwell Smart wrote:

Can multiple addresses be used in this setting?

ip.of.server.dotted:allow,ip.of.server.dotted:allow,RELAYCLIENT=,DKSIGN=/var/qmail/control/domainkeys/%/private,RBLSMTPD=,NOP0FCHECK=1 




Andreas Galatis wrote:

Hi Mike,

for my webservers, sending mail via toaster as relayserver I have 
the following rule in /etc/tcprules.d/tcp.smtp:
ip.of.server.dotted:allow,RELAYCLIENT=,DKSIGN=/var/qmail/control/domainkeys/%/private,RBLSMTPD=,NOP0FCHECK=1 


The server may relay, no authentication required.
If you use spamdyke you should add the ip's in the whitelist-ip file 
too.


Andreas

Am Thursday 29 October 2009 05:31:47 schrieb Mike Canty:
 

To All,
I now have in place three Qmail Toaster Servers in three different
locations.  These servers are part of individual networks, or whish 
there

are other CentOS and RedHat servers.

I am having issues with mail from the other servers as these are 
running
Sendmail by default.  The problem lies in the fact that I can send 
messages

from the Sendmail servers to the Toasters Servers, as long as they are
within the same network and they are not an alias/forward account.

The real issue is CHKUSER does its job too well and it rejects 
messages

from the Sendmail servers, if it's to be sent to another account or
network. This is the type of error I get...

@40004ae9186406b54edc CHKUSER rejected sender: from
r...@backup.mydomain.com:: remote
backup.mydomain.com:unknown:77.60.23.95 rcpt  : invalid sender MX
domain

I understand that there are issues with servers that are not really
configured as a full Mail server, but what can I do to rectify this 
error.


Can someone please let me know what I need to do to the sendmail.cf 
file to
get around this.  Or what needs to be done to the Qmail Toaster 
settings to

allow the incorrect MX issue.

Cheers
Mike Canty


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--
Cecil Yother, Jr. cj
cj's
2318 Clement Ave
Alameda, CA  94501

tel 510.865.2787 | fax 510.864.7300
http://yother.com


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RE: [qmailtoaster] Re: Server Mail

2009-10-29 Thread Mike Canty
Eric,
You are correct in the fact that the host file did not fix the
issue.  Neither did adding the IP to the tcp.smtp file change.  Like you
suggested, fixing the problem at the source is preferable.

Can you suggest what needs to be changed in the sendmail.cf file, or should
I be changing to postfix, as suggested by some others?

Please let me know, and keep those suggestions coming.

Cheers

-Original Message-
From: news [mailto:n...@ger.gmane.org] On Behalf Of Eric Shubert
Sent: Friday, 30 October 2009 2:56 AM
To: qmailtoaster-list@qmailtoaster.com
Subject: [qmailtoaster] Re: Server Mail

I'd like to know if this works, but I don't expect it will.

I believe that chkuser is not finding an MX record for the 
backup.mydomain.com domain, and this cannot be specified in the hosts 
file. An MX record for backup.mydomain.dom would need to be added to the 
authoritative DNS for the mydomain.com domain. While this would fix the 
problem, I don't think it's the best solution.

Fixing the problem at its source is preferable. (more on that elsewhere)

Maxwell Smart wrote:
 Mike,
 
 I am not 100% sure, but I think you can put the MX address in the host 
 file of the server that is rejecting the mail because of an invalid 
 sender MX domain.  I am pretty sure it's because it can't resolve the 
 address.
 
 Host file entry
 snip
 77.60.23.95 backup.mydmain.com
 /snip
 
 or you may be able to add an entry in the local domain file.
 I believe either solution will work.  Hopefully someone else can chime 
 in to confirm.  I don't think the rcpt host file allows ip addresses.
 
 CJ
 
 
 Mike Canty wrote:
 To All,
 I now have in place three Qmail Toaster Servers in three different
 locations.  These servers are part of individual networks, or whish there
 are other CentOS and RedHat servers.

 I am having issues with mail from the other servers as these are running
 Sendmail by default.  The problem lies in the fact that I can send 
 messages
 from the Sendmail servers to the Toasters Servers, as long as they are
 within the same network and they are not an alias/forward account.

 The real issue is CHKUSER does its job too well and it rejects 
 messages from
 the Sendmail servers, if it's to be sent to another account or network.
 This is the type of error I get...

 @40004ae9186406b54edc CHKUSER rejected sender: from
 r...@backup.mydomain.com:: remote
 backup.mydomain.com:unknown:77.60.23.95 rcpt  : invalid sender MX 
 domain

 I understand that there are issues with servers that are not really
 configured as a full Mail server, but what can I do to rectify this 
 error.

 Can someone please let me know what I need to do to the sendmail.cf 
 file to
 get around this.  Or what needs to be done to the Qmail Toaster 
 settings to
 allow the incorrect MX issue.

 Cheers
 Mike Canty



-- 
-Eric 'shubes'



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-
Qmailtoaster is sponsored by Vickers Consulting Group 
(www.vickersconsulting.com)
Vickers Consulting Group offers Qmailtoaster support and installations.
  If you need professional help with your setup, contact them today!
-
 Please visit qmailtoaster.com for the latest news, updates, and packages.
 
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