Re: [Qt-jambi-interest] newbie java gui programmer: will qt jambi be stable enough to invest on it?
G. Allegri wrote: Is the Qt Jambi strong enough to give us a promising future perspective? Ok, easy questions for difficult answers... I need just a hint to avoid investing on something that doesn't fit my skills. There was a debate on this a few months back when Trolltech announced QtJambi was being handed over to the community. My opinion was negative at the time, and although others tried hard to be optimistic, they didn't convince me, and I've not seen much positive in the intervening months. QtJambi is just too complex to hand over to the community. It requires in depth understanding of the internals of JVMs, in depth understanding of the internals of Qt, and in depth understanding of the tools that have been created to link everything together. The only people with that much knowledge are the Trolltech guys, and if it's not economical for Nokia to employ them to maintain QtJambi then it's hard to see how anyone else would find a business case to do so. On this list we've already seen examples of problems that people have reported that aren't going to be fixed by Trolltech. No one else knows how to do it, and no one else has stepped up to say they're going to learn. I'd still love someone to prove me wrong, for someone to step forward and say they'll maintain it. Sun are the only people I can see doing that, and given they're about to be swallowed I doubt it'll happen any time soon. In the meantime I still think it's a dying project. Much as it pains me to say it, I'd caution the OP against investing any significant time in it. ___ Qt-jambi-interest mailing list Qt-jambi-interest@trolltech.com http://lists.trolltech.com/mailman/listinfo/qt-jambi-interest
Re: [Qt-jambi-interest] newbie java gui programmer: will qt jambi be stable enough to invest on it?
On Monday 07 September 2009, Derek Fountain wrote: G. Allegri wrote: Is the Qt Jambi strong enough to give us a promising future perspective? Ok, easy questions for difficult answers... I need just a hint to avoid investing on something that doesn't fit my skills. There was a debate on this a few months back when Trolltech announced QtJambi was being handed over to the community. My opinion was negative at the time, and although others tried hard to be optimistic, they didn't convince me, and I've not seen much positive in the intervening months. QtJambi is just too complex to hand over to the community. It requires in depth understanding of the internals of JVMs, in depth understanding of the internals of Qt, and in depth understanding of the tools that have been created to link everything together. The only people with that much knowledge are the Trolltech guys, and if it's not economical for Nokia to employ them to maintain QtJambi then it's hard to see how anyone else would find a business case to do so. Not quite sure this is true. You have to remember that things like juic did not originate in Trolltech, but rather in the KDE community - I know because I contributed to it (although I do not know if anything I did remains in the current code). The KDE version was mainly concerned with the KDE interfaces, but did unless I am very much mistaken have bits of the Qt interface in it. The java bindings for KDE were often behind the rest of the KDE bindings and was the work in the main of just one person but I would not be so sure that it can not be done by the community if there is a will and a small group of people to work with it. David On this list we've already seen examples of problems that people have reported that aren't going to be fixed by Trolltech. No one else knows how to do it, and no one else has stepped up to say they're going to learn. I'd still love someone to prove me wrong, for someone to step forward and say they'll maintain it. Sun are the only people I can see doing that, and given they're about to be swallowed I doubt it'll happen any time soon. In the meantime I still think it's a dying project. Much as it pains me to say it, I'd caution the OP against investing any significant time in it. ___ Qt-jambi-interest mailing list Qt-jambi-interest@trolltech.com http://lists.trolltech.com/mailman/listinfo/qt-jambi-interest ___ Qt-jambi-interest mailing list Qt-jambi-interest@trolltech.com http://lists.trolltech.com/mailman/listinfo/qt-jambi-interest
Re: [Qt-jambi-interest] newbie java gui programmer: will qt jambi be stable enough to invest on it?
I guess this will depend a bit upon how much changes one can foresee in the Qt in the near future. As it is, I think Qt Jambi is great in it's current state, thus if you are satisfied with the 4.5 or maybe 4.6 version of Qt, then the risk wouldn't be that high. However, if major changes in the Qt API construction is to come that will lead to lot's of changes in the Jambi bindings + that you would like to "stay tuned" towards using these new features, then I would say you may be up to some risk in starting a new project. If supporting 4.7, 4.8... only involves some updates in the type system environment of Jambi to add new features, and the generator works more or less as before, then we might be lucky getting some "spare time" support from Gunnar and Eskil :-) to do the upgrades. What's in the crystal ball? Helge G. Allegri wrote: Hello list, I've been using Qt's python bindings for a while, and I love this framework both for the Core and Gui features. I'm not an expert gui developer, and Qt gave me the opportunity to setup useful gui's in few days. Now I need to work with Java and I've always feared the huge world of AWT/Swing, so I was relying all my hopes on Qt Jambi. The 1 million $ question is: Qt Jambi will not be further supported by Nokia/Trolltech after 4.6 release, does it make sense to rely on this framework to start working with Java gui's? I mean, I'm not able to contribute to Qt Jambi development, nor have the financial conditions to found it (I hope I will in the future!). Should I thake a deep breath and start learning Swing, to have a long lasting hope that my gui skills will be supported? Is the Qt Jambi strong enough to give us a promising future perspective? Ok, easy questions for difficult answers... I need just a hint to avoid investing on something that doesn't fit my skills. Have a good day, Giovanni ___ Qt-jambi-interest mailing list Qt-jambi-interest@trolltech.com http://lists.trolltech.com/mailman/listinfo/qt-jambi-interest ___ Qt-jambi-interest mailing list Qt-jambi-interest@trolltech.com http://lists.trolltech.com/mailman/listinfo/qt-jambi-interest
Re: [Qt-jambi-interest] newbie java gui programmer: will qt jambi be stable enough to invest on it?
the Qt interface in it. The java bindings for KDE were often behind the rest of the KDE bindings and was the work in the main of just one person but I would not be so sure that it can not be done by the community if there is a will and a small group of people to work with it. Indeed. The issue is simply finding the one or two people with the skills, knowledge, time and motivation to do this extremely difficult work for free. ___ Qt-jambi-interest mailing list Qt-jambi-interest@trolltech.com http://lists.trolltech.com/mailman/listinfo/qt-jambi-interest
Re: [Qt-jambi-interest] newbie java gui programmer: will qt jambi be stable enough to invest on it?
David Goodenough skrev: Not quite sure this is true. You have to remember that things like juic did not originate in Trolltech, but rather in the KDE community - I know Just to be clear: The QtJava-bindings in KDE, which were made by Richard Dale, were for Qt 3 and are licensed under the GPL, so they are not related to Qt Jambi in any way, other than possibly some overlap in logic :-) No code was used from that project. -- Eskil ___ Qt-jambi-interest mailing list Qt-jambi-interest@trolltech.com http://lists.trolltech.com/mailman/listinfo/qt-jambi-interest
Re: [Qt-jambi-interest] newbie java gui programmer: will qt jambi be stable enough to invest on it?
I have huge experience with Swing and starting to get my experience with Jambi (but already having some working project) I'll try to answer main questions in few stages: 1. It depends on what you need. Swing is much closer to Java, it shows you main Java OOAD concepts and allows you to get in MVC without pain. After getting along with Swing - any other Java-based MVC framework will be 10 minutes for you to master, even web frameworks such as Struts or Echo2. Also it lets you extend and override your components hard, it makes use of interfaces and many other deep java things. QtJambi is a bit back because of it's structure. It relates on native code, so you can't dig in deep enough to see how it works internally. Also there are few problems with inheritance, it's great that Jambi guys are resolving it using interfaces. 2. If you don't want to make Java career and just want to create some tools with best platform consistency possible for Java - you'd better stick with QtJambi. It has great OOAD design, but not a bit Java-stylish, it has great fonts antialiasing, better components base that lets you code less but do more, it's graphics abilities are much more powerful than you can expect from Swing. And of course trolltech guys are working to make Qt even better, while Sun thinks that Swing is just fine already (while it is far from truth). PS: and of course forget the word AWT :) believe me you don't need it while you can use Swing. On Mon, Sep 7, 2009 at 1:08 PM, G. Allegrigioha...@gmail.com wrote: Hello list, I've been using Qt's python bindings for a while, and I love this framework both for the Core and Gui features. I'm not an expert gui developer, and Qt gave me the opportunity to setup useful gui's in few days. Now I need to work with Java and I've always feared the huge world of AWT/Swing, so I was relying all my hopes on Qt Jambi. The 1 million $ question is: Qt Jambi will not be further supported by Nokia/Trolltech after 4.6 release, does it make sense to rely on this framework to start working with Java gui's? I mean, I'm not able to contribute to Qt Jambi development, nor have the financial conditions to found it (I hope I will in the future!). Should I thake a deep breath and start learning Swing, to have a long lasting hope that my gui skills will be supported? Is the Qt Jambi strong enough to give us a promising future perspective? Ok, easy questions for difficult answers... I need just a hint to avoid investing on something that doesn't fit my skills. Have a good day, Giovanni On Mon, Sep 7, 2009 at 2:50 PM, Eskil Abrahamsen Blomfeldteblom...@trolltech.com wrote: David Goodenough skrev: Not quite sure this is true. You have to remember that things like juic did not originate in Trolltech, but rather in the KDE community - I know Just to be clear: The QtJava-bindings in KDE, which were made by Richard Dale, were for Qt 3 and are licensed under the GPL, so they are not related to Qt Jambi in any way, other than possibly some overlap in logic :-) No code was used from that project. -- Eskil ___ Qt-jambi-interest mailing list Qt-jambi-interest@trolltech.com http://lists.trolltech.com/mailman/listinfo/qt-jambi-interest
Re: [Qt-jambi-interest] newbie java gui programmer: will qt jambi be stable enough to invest on it?
Dear Eskil, Just to follow up my previous post, are you able to depict something about coming technology changes in the Qt framework that might inflict on the Jambi support for the upcoming Qt releases? Regards, Helge Fredriksen Eskil Abrahamsen Blomfeldt wrote: David Goodenough skrev: Not quite sure this is true. You have to remember that things like juic did not originate in Trolltech, but rather in the KDE community - I know Just to be clear: The QtJava-bindings in KDE, which were made by Richard Dale, were for Qt 3 and are licensed under the GPL, so they are not related to Qt Jambi in any way, other than possibly some overlap in logic :-) No code was used from that project. -- Eskil ___ Qt-jambi-interest mailing list Qt-jambi-interest@trolltech.com http://lists.trolltech.com/mailman/listinfo/qt-jambi-interest ___ Qt-jambi-interest mailing list Qt-jambi-interest@trolltech.com http://lists.trolltech.com/mailman/listinfo/qt-jambi-interest
