Re: AW: Re: [qubes-users] For community by community - A way to preserve/focus everyones work going into Qubes, bottom-up

[Alex Dubois]

Sent from my mobile phone.

> On 4 Mar 2018, at 21:44, awokd  wrote:
> 
>> On Sun, March 4, 2018 8:04 pm, 799 wrote:
>> 
>> 
>> Can't we just create a new "community" repo where Pull request get
>> reviewed by us but finally approved by more experienced Power Users (this
>> group can include Qubes OS Team, but also experienced community members
>> selected by the Qubes Team/David)?
> 
> I wouldn't mind helping out on reviews on something like this, as well as
> contributing my own half-baked ideas.

True we could have sandbox per person, or each person fork (the fork) and we 
have a page with list of forks
Once idea is ready, do a PR to the community fork...

This is the spirit of git

> Can't really commit the time to be a
> forum moderator, but something like this would work.
> 
> 

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Re: AW: Re: [qubes-users] For community by community - A way to preserve/focus everyones work going into Qubes, bottom-up

[Alex Dubois]

Sent from my mobile phone.

> On 4 Mar 2018, at 20:04, 799  wrote:
> 
> Hello Alex,
> 
> 
> 2018-03-04 11:49 GMT+01:00 Alex Dubois :
>> 
>> I had some thought.
>> - Qubes team probably don't have the time to spread too thin, and would 
>> prefer for us to help them on there Qubes repo
>> - Some people invest time in documenting, but it takes time for Qubes team 
>> to validate the pull request, and sometime they may prefer to not accept the 
>> PR.
> 
> It is important to communicate why a pull request has not been approved.
> This communication takes some time and also fixing the issues

Yes agreed and the fork would be a good staging area/first pass

> 
>> I think one of these 2 options would be a first good step in the right 
>> direction:
>> - Qubes team provides a fork of qubes-doc in another project on which 
>> community members accept PR that can then be accepted as PR upstream on the 
>> official qubes-doc, qubes team only manage the access right for the PR (?)
>> - Someone is happy to put the effort to do option 1 and manage it (which 
>> should be limited to access right to that repo to trusted comminutity 
>> members to accept PR), as long as Qubes team agree with the approach
> 
> 
> I agree that this will be the easiest option and allows us to start 
> collecting scripts.
> I am unsure if we really need to fork the whole qubes-doc as this might lead 
> to confusion where to work when improving the existing documentation.

I think it is important to keep it as a fork for few reasons:
- most importantly we focus on helping the Qubes team 
- if not it would be hard to clean-up what is in Qubes-doc, in the community 
repo, and if the Qubes-doc get improved directly, it won’t be ported to 
community, leading to not up to date info

That does not prevent the fork from starting new areas of documentation.

I strongly feel that if it is not a fork we will dilute our contribution to the 
project. 

If David does not have the bandwidth to manage the access right, I feel awokd 
is a good candidate too. He acquired a good visibility of the overall doc.

However I think my suggestion is only to be taken with Qubes team validation.
And if they feel it is not the best way and prefer the mailing lists and 
existing infrastructure it is important to respect that and get back in line. 

It is also important to not spend too much resources discussing this, but 
rather contribute directly. 

> 
> Can't we just create a new "community" repo where Pull request get reviewed 
> by us but finally approved by more experienced Power Users (this group can 
> include Qubes OS Team, but also experienced community members selected by the 
> Qubes Team/David)?

I don’t have much experience in managing communities.

I feel that a pair/trio need to be “responsible” per area or subject. With a 
person helped by one or two for the overall. 



> 
>> I have one concern with such proposal. A number of community proposal are 
>> sometimes not very secure (to be gentle). So ideally a layer of meta-data is 
>> added (maybe on a single index page), with the rating of the doc page.
> 
> 
> Agree, it might feel frustrating in the beginning of you start contributing 
> docs and then find out that the "nice idea" that you had leads to several 
> security risks or is just not yet ready to be released.
> But: this is exactly the point what I like about Qubes. That I can rely that 
> it's not that easy to do something stupid which compromises security. 
> As such writing docs or scripts always include a learning curve which is a 
> good thing.

Yes and different people have different expectations.

But I think an index page rating the security level or enumerating the risks 
identified would be nice.

For example in the Qubes-doc, there are pages to put dns, http-proxy or vpn in 
line (I.e. sys-firewall). This is a bad practice as the attack surface of one 
protocol is exposing the entier Qubes system. 
A better way is to have these hosted on app-vm and have sys-firewall 
intercepting and routing the traffic. 
Even having sys-firewall doing the download rather than a dispvm is increasing 
the attack surface (not sure if still the case)

All these points are not criticism of Qubes, perfect security does not exist, 
but capturing them in a central place would be beneficial. That said, the most 
important thing is that I am at fault for doing this in an email rather than in 
a PR.
But this same PR done in the community staging area would give some bandwidth 
to Marek and co. 
However Marek may loose visibility on how things are going so David or awokd 
need to sync with him a summary. 
> 
> [799]
> 

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Re: AW: Re: [qubes-users] For community by community - A way to preserve/focus everyones work going into Qubes, bottom-up

[Yuraeitha]

@Taiidan

On Sunday, March 4, 2018 at 9:48:51 PM UTC+1, tai...@gmx.com wrote:
> I will not be participating in any website or wiki of this type if 
> people with zero qualifications are allowed to provide "advice".
> 
> There are quite a lot of people on this list giving literally dangerous 
> advice or telling people not to bother with increasing their security 
> with libre software/hardware because of vague theoretical backdoors...of 
> course they fail to mention the actually *proven* backdoors in closed 
> source software/hardware - considering that qubes etc is used by people 
> in oppressive third world regimes bad advice well intentioned or 
> otherwise can get people killed what they are doing goes beyond simple 
> incompetence.
> 
> I believe the minimum of qualifications should be having at least one 
> owner controlled motherboard with coreboot/libreboot/OpenPOWER firmware.
> 
> As a starter rule I would also say that people who have gmail/microsoft 
> accounts should not be allowed to comment at all because they probably 
> have no idea what they are doing[1].
> 
> I also suggest that it be hosted on a platform that respects its users, 
> which excludes anything google cloudflare microsoft source-forge etc.
> 
> [1] qmastery man you clearly have actual skills why do you keep using 
> one? its not like there aren't alternatives either paid or free not only 
> are you giving up your data you are helping them with their AI research 
> that will put people out of work every time you complete a re-captcha.

If the goal is to target people who have little knowledge of security and make 
them more aware, then how to do this is very, very different than targeting 
people that seek to maximize security as far as possible, and keep learning in 
order to do just that. Most people are the former, not so many the latter. But 
the point is, those who seek to maximize security, will keep seeking answers 
and keep learning, while the other group spend very little time and energy on 
security.

So the problem here, if the community is off-putting, rude, elitist, or heavily 
rule based, then you will scare off exactly the kind of people that needs quick 
information and help to build a stronger security, while it will take much more 
to put off those who seek to maximize security whom are likely to stay.

But here an elitist or iron tight rule based community is created, in contrast 
to an open, welcoming and culture based community. If the goal is to reach as 
many people as possible with proper security, then a balance has to be sought 
between these two extremes.

You would have to first put forwardd the question, who is the target group? Is 
it the people that seek to maximize security? or is to spread out and make 
people more aware and use better security? 

Both can be achieved too, one does not exclude the other. But heavy use of 
rules and elitist attitudes will surely push anyone away who puts little time 
and effort into security.

If you want both, then a lot more effort has to be put into forming the proper 
culture and codex among the user-base, and this is often what community 
designers are either lazy or ignorant about. 

A proper community archiving both, would have to be a constant process that 
keeps working towards building the community, and not some place that is set in 
stone and unchanging.

What is needed is contant effort, and not to become lazy or ignorant about the 
community, but keep working on maintaining the balance and quality.

I agree with your view that some checks and rules are needed, but what can be 
shaped and guided through culture, should be done through culture, not by rules 
just because someone likes and feel better about rules (people are different, 
and that's okay). 

If a person wants to spread and increase awareness of proper security, but at 
the same time want to lock-down the community hard by heavy use of rules, then 
that person has a cognitive bias. So I want to ask, who do you tihnk is the 
target group? Spreading the awareness of security, requres the human 
factor/psychology/culture to be included.

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Re: [qubes-users] Trouble updating templates

[sevas]

Yes. My updateVM was set to custom-sys-net. I changed it to 
custom-sys-firewall, as you recommended. 

I am very unfamiliar with the command-line (thats called bash, right?) tools. 
But qubes-prefs updatevm custom-sys-net = yes. 

What I actually did:
sys-net$
yum clean all 
yum repolist all
# There are no enabled repos.
dom0/sys-net$ systemctl status updates-proxy-setup
# No such service.
dom0$ systemctl status qubes-updates-proxy
# No such service.
sys-net$ systemctl status qubes-updates-proxy
# good
sys-net$ systemctl restart qubes-updates-proxy
sys-net$ spt-get update
# No new packages.
debian-9$ sudo apt-get update
# No new packages.
Fedora-26$ sudo yum update
# 84 new packages. 

What I think did the trick:
Im not sure exactly what did it, but it must have something to do with 
1. dom0$ qubes-prefs updatevm sys-firewall
2. $yum clean all;  
3. as well as re-enabling the qubes-updates-proxy in the Qube Manager 
sys-net:settings>Services tab (which I had added and removed multiple times)
4. sys-net$systemctl restart qubes-updates-proxy


Thanks for your help, youre a Light Sabor!

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[qubes-users] Re: QWT issues with USB device and copy to vm

[Glen H]

On Sunday, March 4, 2018 at 8:04:16 PM UTC-5, brenda...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Sunday, March 4, 2018 at 7:24:28 PM UTC-5, Glen H wrote:
> > 1) When I try to use Nautilus to move a file over to `win7` it seems to work
> > (even starting win7 if it isn't running already), but I can't find the 
> > folder
> > for where it is on the Windows side.  If I try copying to the win7 vm again 
> > I
> > get an error that the file already exists.  So it seems the copy is working 
> > but
> > I can't find the files on in Windows.
> 
> I had the same issue in V4.0RC4 & found the files in the following (not 
> usually indexed) location:   
>   C:\Windows\System32\config\systemprofile\Documents\QubesIncoming\ 
> 
> I haven't experimented with adjusting the qvm-prefs win7 default_user to a 
> windows account name to see if that "fixes" it.
> 
> Brendan

Hi Brendan,

That fixes issue 1.  I did `qvm-prefs win7 ` and now 
"QubesIncoming" is in my home directory.  Thanks.

Glen

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Re: [qubes-users] Re: qrexec demon fails to load any VM when I attach any device

['awokd' via qubes-users]

On Mon, March 5, 2018 2:34 am, Allen Larocque wrote:


> 00:1b.0 Audio device: Intel Corporation 7 Series/C216 Chipset Family High
> Definition Audio Controller (rev 04)

> Kernel driver in use: snd_hda_intel
> Kernel modules: snd_hda_intel

Looks like it loaded fine. In Dom0 volume control, is it selected as your
Output Device? Can't think of any other reason why it wouldn't show in
aplay -l.

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Re: [qubes-users] Trouble updating templates

[sevas]

> Normally you shouldn't have to edit this file. Did you set qubes-prefs
> updatevm custom-sys-net? (And why sys-net instead of sys-firewall)? Might
> also want to clear dnf/yum cache in custom-sys-net.

should it be going through the firewall? The default settings send through 
sys-net. Yeah, I dont have a reason. I want it set up correctly. 

I see that I need to research qubes command line tools. I will try this soon...
Unfortunately, I have not done any qubes-commandline work yet. I started to 
edit that file because of /doc/software-update-vm/#updates-proxy ="Technical 
Details" 

Thanks for taking the time!

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Re: [qubes-users] Re: qrexec demon fails to load any VM when I attach any device

[Allen Larocque]

On Sunday, 4 March 2018 17:56:27 UTC-8, awokd  wrote:
> On Mon, March 5, 2018 1:23 am, Allen Larocque wrote:
> > Thanks Awokd,
> > Wow, a lot of output in journalctl!
> >
> >
> > There was an audio related error in "journalctl - b":
> > [Pulseaudio]pid.c:Daemon already runninge
> >
> >
> > Nothing referring to alsa however.
> 
> Was expecting there'd be some indication why the driver didn't load. Can
> you do a "sudo lspci -vvv", look for your audio device, and what it says
> for "kernel driver in use" or if that line is missing?


Hm, here's the output from sudo lspci -vvv:

00:1b.0 Audio device: Intel Corporation 7 Series/C216 Chipset Family High 
Definition Audio Controller (rev 04)
Subsystem: ASUSTeK Computer Inc. Zenbook Prime UX31A
Control: I/O- Mem+ BusMaster+ SpecCycle- MemWINV- VGASnoop- ParErr- 
Stepping- SERR- FastB2B- DisINTx+
Status: Cap+ 66MHz- UDF- FastB2B- ParErr- DEVSEL=fast >TAbort- SERR- https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/qubes-users/dad2a118-67df-47d9-b744-8cce1ce5c2ca%40googlegroups.com.
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Re: [qubes-users] Re: qrexec demon fails to load any VM when I attach any device

['awokd' via qubes-users]

On Mon, March 5, 2018 1:23 am, Allen Larocque wrote:
> Thanks Awokd,
> Wow, a lot of output in journalctl!
>
>
> There was an audio related error in "journalctl - b":
> [Pulseaudio]pid.c:Daemon already running
>
>
> Nothing referring to alsa however.

Was expecting there'd be some indication why the driver didn't load. Can
you do a "sudo lspci -vvv", look for your audio device, and what it says
for "kernel driver in use" or if that line is missing?

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Re: [qubes-users] Re: qrexec demon fails to load any VM when I attach any device

[Allen Larocque]

Thanks Awokd,
Wow, a lot of output in journalctl!

There was an audio related error in "journalctl - b":
[Pulseaudio]pid.c:Daemon already running

Nothing referring to alsa however.

- A 

On Saturday, 3 March 2018 03:57:31 UTC-8, awokd  wrote:
> On Fri, March 2, 2018 4:00 am, Allen Larocque wrote:
> 
> > I checked the qvm-pci lists and the audio driver isn't assigned to any
> > VMs. This is a fresh install with the sys-USB VM on.
> 
> You wrote "driver" here- you meant "device", right? Double check your VM
> settings > Devices and make sure it's not assigned to any VM. If that
> results in unassigning it from one or more, reboot afterwards.
> 
> > As far as I can summarize the problem now:
> > 1. lspci shows the audio device.
> > 2. aplay-l shows 'no audio device'
> 
> It should, if dom0 recognizes it. Look through "sudo journalctl -b" for
> errors related to your audio device.
> 
> > 3. Pulseaudio output and config tabs show no audio devices (except the
> > virtual one 'simultaneous output').
> >
> > I've been interpreting this as a driver issue? But unsure how to fix/ get
> > the appropriate drivers
> 
> Journalctl should give you more information to review.

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Re: [qubes-users] Trouble updating templates

['awokd' via qubes-users]

On Mon, March 5, 2018 12:45 am, sevas wrote:

>
>
> dom0: nano /qubes-rpc/policy/qubes-UpdatesProxy
> # default
> ## $type:TemplateVM $default allow,target=sys-net
> # edit#1
> $type:TemplateVM $default allow,target=custom-sys-net
> # edit#2
> $type:TemplateVM $anyVM allow,target=custom-sys-net

Normally you shouldn't have to edit this file. Did you set qubes-prefs
updatevm custom-sys-net? (And why sys-net instead of sys-firewall)? Might
also want to clear dnf/yum cache in custom-sys-net.

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[qubes-users] Re: QWT issues with USB device and copy to vm

[brendan . hoar]

On Sunday, March 4, 2018 at 7:24:28 PM UTC-5, Glen H wrote:
> 1) When I try to use Nautilus to move a file over to `win7` it seems to work
> (even starting win7 if it isn't running already), but I can't find the folder
> for where it is on the Windows side.  If I try copying to the win7 vm again I
> get an error that the file already exists.  So it seems the copy is working 
> but
> I can't find the files on in Windows.

I had the same issue in V4.0RC4 & found the files in the following (not usually 
indexed) location:   
  C:\Windows\System32\config\systemprofile\Documents\QubesIncoming\ 

I haven't experimented with adjusting the qvm-prefs win7 default_user to a 
windows account name to see if that "fixes" it.

Brendan

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Re: [qubes-users] Trouble updating templates

[sevas]

ooh I spoke too soon. Its not working. Its helping! But

journalctl returns:
Template > allowed to sys-net

Fedora template says failed to synchronize cache for repo "updates"
Debian says the same as it did previously.

And next to the "state" entry of the Qubes Manager, they both have a down arrow 
next to the green dot that says they are running. What does that mean?

Please excuse me while I go dig through the docs and google.

[EDIT]
fedora forums says:
add your proxy to
 /etc/dnf/dnf.conf vim /etc/dnf/dnf.conf

Qubes says:

You may be encountering issue #3135
What happens after running systemctl restart qubes-updates-proxy in sys-net ?
https://github.com/QubesOS/qubes-issues/issues/3135

testing...

[Edit #2}

Fail. 

journalctl -u qubes-updates-proxy.service
-empty-
Thats good, right?

/etc/dnf/dnf.conf
## This file is overridden by qubes-rpc/policy/qubes-UpdatesProxy

/usr/lib/qubes/updates-proxy-configs
## You cannot save changes to this file. 


dom0: nano /qubes-rpc/policy/qubes-UpdatesProxy
# default
## $type:TemplateVM $default allow,target=sys-net
# edit#1
$type:TemplateVM $default allow,target=custom-sys-net
# edit#2
$type:TemplateVM $anyVM allow,target=custom-sys-net

Still not working...

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Re: [qubes-users] For community by community - A way to preserve/focus everyones work going into Qubes, bottom-up

[[799]]

On 03/04 03:48, sevas wrote:
> A forum is a must. It doesnt have to be official. But it needs to happen.  
> It needs to have a section for 
> -Questions & -Community Tutorials
> at the very least. 

the only problem with a forum is, that it produced overhead in order to
keep the forum software secure and up-to-date.

[799]

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[qubes-users] QWT issues with USB device and copy to vm

[Glen H]

Hi,

(Qubes 4 rc 4, fully updated dom0)

I installed the latest R3.2 QWT after doing a fresh install of Win 7 Pro and 
doing all the Win 7 OS updates.  That took about an hour and 8 reboots and I 
needed to expand my Windows drive from 25G to 35G using `qvm-volume extend 
win7:root 36g` and then using the disk management tool in windows to grow the 
volume.

Then I installed QWT by doing this:

```
# dom0:
qvm-start win7
# win7:
bcdedit /set testsigning on
# shutdown

# dom0:
qvm-start --cdrom=untrusted:/home/user/qubes-windows-tools.iso win7
# win7:
run .exe in attached CD-ROM to install QWT
shutdown

# dom0:
qvm-start win7
# win7:
finish QWT install, crashed
reboot in normal mode from crash
finish QWT install, this time completed
```

Issues:

1) When I try to use Nautilus to move a file over to `win7` it seems to work 
(even starting win7 if it isn't running already), but I can't find the folder 
for where it is on the Windows side.  If I try copying to the win7 vm again I 
get an error that the file already exists.  So it seems the copy is working but 
I can't find the files on in Windows.

2) When I use the device manager widget in the XFCE panel to associate my USB 
scanner with win7 it seems to freeze the widget and is unresponsive until I 
shutdown Windows.  The USB device doesn't appear in Windows either.  

Any ideas?

Glen

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Re: [qubes-users] Trouble updating templates

[sevas]

ooh I spoke too soon. Its not working. Its helping! But

journalctl returns:
Template > allowed to sys-net

Fedora template says failed to synchronize cache for repo "updates"
Debian says the same as it did previously.

And next to the "state" entry of the Qubes Manager, they both have a down arrow 
next to the green dot that says they are running. What does that mean?

Please excuse me while I go dig through the docs and google.

[EDIT]
fedora forums says:
add your proxy to 
 /etc/dnf/dnf.conf vim /etc/dnf/dnf.conf

Qubes says:

You may be encountering issue #3135
What happens after running systemctl restart qubes-updates-proxy in sys-net ?
https://github.com/QubesOS/qubes-issues/issues/3135

testing...

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Re: [qubes-users] Re: Migrating to second hard drive

[Glen H]

On Saturday, March 3, 2018 at 3:18:47 AM UTC-5, ThierryIT wrote:
> Le vendredi 2 mars 2018 11:26:03 UTC+2, Unman a écrit :
> > On Fri, Mar 02, 2018 at 04:10:24AM -, 'awokd' via qubes-users wrote:
> > > On Fri, March 2, 2018 3:38 am, Glen H wrote:
> > > > On Thursday, March 1, 2018 at 10:37:26 PM UTC-5, Glen H wrote:
> > > >
> > > >> Hi,
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >> My primary SSD is out of space and I have a second hard drive.  I've
> > > >> formatted it but not sure how to migrate my cubes to it.  Does anyone
> > > >> have any instructions for doing this?
> > > >>
> > > >> Ideally, I'd boot from my new hard drive and use original one to store
> > > >> my backups of my qubes.
> > > >>
> > > >> Thanks,
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >> Glen
> > > >>
> > > >
> > > > I forgot to mention that I'm on Qubes 4 and I'm pretty knowledgeable
> > > > about Linux.
> > > 
> > > Make sure you do a backup first. You might be able to "cheat" and DD the
> > > small drive to the larger then expand, as long as you're comfortable with
> > > LVM. On the other hand, pulling the small drive, installing Qubes on the
> > > new, and restoring from backup wouldn't take that much longer.
> > 
> > If you cheat you'll have to fix grub if you're using it. I suspect it'll
> > be cleaner to take the second option and install 4.0 on the new drive
> > when it comes out.
> 
> What about doing a backup of all your VMs / template first.
> Doing a fresh install of Qubes on your new HDD.
> Restored your backuped VMs 
> 
> ?

I ended up doing a fresh install as I didn't have much in my Qubes anyways and 
I didn't have space for a backup.

Glen

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Re: AW: Re: [qubes-users] For community by community - A way to preserve/focus everyones work going into Qubes, bottom-up

[sevas]

A forum is a must. It doesnt have to be official. But it needs to happen. 

It needs to have a section for 
-Questions & -Community Tutorials
at the very least. 

The Kali forums is a great example of what a qubes forum should look like. 

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Re: [qubes-users] Trouble updating templates

[sevas]

ooh I spoke too soon. Its not working. Its helping! But

journalctl returns:
Template > allowed to sys-net

Fedora template says failed to synchronize cache for repo "updates"
Debian says the same as it did previously. 

And next to the "state" entry of the Qubes Manager, they both have a down arrow 
next to the green dot that says they are running. What does that mean?

Please excuse me while I go dig through the docs and google.

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Re: [qubes-users] Trouble updating templates

[sevas]

That helped. 

journalctl -f in dom0 returned a block in the rpc-policy.

dom0: nano /etc/qubes-rpc/policy/qubes-UpdatesProxy

I had to change the name of my primary sys-net to the name I provided my 
default sys-net. 

Thats what I get for going and changing things around. 

Solved. Thanks!

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Re: AW: Re: [qubes-users] For community by community - A way to preserve/focus everyones work going into Qubes, bottom-up

['awokd' via qubes-users]

On Sun, March 4, 2018 8:04 pm, 799 wrote:

>
> Can't we just create a new "community" repo where Pull request get
> reviewed by us but finally approved by more experienced Power Users (this
> group can include Qubes OS Team, but also experienced community members
> selected by the Qubes Team/David)?

I wouldn't mind helping out on reviews on something like this, as well as
contributing my own half-baked ideas. Can't really commit the time to be a
forum moderator, but something like this would work.


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Re: [qubes-users] Re: Re: Can't install Qubes, Rebooting after loading initrd.img

['awokd' via qubes-users]

On Sun, March 4, 2018 9:34 pm, 'awokd' via qubes-users wrote:

>
> Sending off-list-

Helps to not hit reply all to do that... sorry for the noise.


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Re: AW: Re: [qubes-users] For community by community - A way to preserve/focus everyones work going into Qubes, bottom-up

[799]

Hello Taiidan,

Am 04.03.2018 9:48 nachm. schrieb "taii...@gmx.com" :

I will not be participating in any website or wiki of this type if people
with zero qualifications are allowed to provide "advice".


What does "zero qualification" means and what does "advice" stands for?
It's not about advicing (advice to me means: I know something better then
someone else or at least I feel knowledgeable enough to tell other people
what they should do).

There are quite a lot of people on this list giving literally dangerous
advice or telling people not to bother with increasing their security with
libre software/hardware because of vague theoretical backdoors...


If so, those users should be given constructive feedback and guidance. Keep
in mind that those "users" are still more likely to listen than the
"average" user, who has no interest in privacy at all.

I believe the minimum of qualifications should be having at least one owner
controlled motherboard with coreboot/libreboot/OpenPOWER firmware.


I don't see how qualification is "certified" by running Coreboot/Libreboot?
I am running coreboot does this qualifies me? Keep also in mind that there
might be users who need to run recent hardware or hardware that are not on
the Coreboot Hardware Compatibility List (HCL).

As a starter rule I would also say that people who have gmail/microsoft
accounts should not be allowed to comment at all because they probably have
no idea what they are doing[1].


Writing from my Googlemail address which is only there for Qubes+Coreboot
Mailinglist because Protonmail doesn't offer IMAP:
Not using Google doesn't make someone superior, and even if you are right
that there are reasons not (!) to use Google for personal E-Mails:
If you don't allow them to comment,there is no possibility for a discussion
and convincing them to try something different.
And if so, then Qubes should not run this Google group/Mailinglist ;-)

[799]

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Re: AW: Re: [qubes-users] For community by community - A way to preserve/focus everyones work going into Qubes, bottom-up

[taii...@gmx.com]

I will not be participating in any website or wiki of this type if 
people with zero qualifications are allowed to provide "advice".


There are quite a lot of people on this list giving literally dangerous 
advice or telling people not to bother with increasing their security 
with libre software/hardware because of vague theoretical backdoors...of 
course they fail to mention the actually *proven* backdoors in closed 
source software/hardware - considering that qubes etc is used by people 
in oppressive third world regimes bad advice well intentioned or 
otherwise can get people killed what they are doing goes beyond simple 
incompetence.


I believe the minimum of qualifications should be having at least one 
owner controlled motherboard with coreboot/libreboot/OpenPOWER firmware.


As a starter rule I would also say that people who have gmail/microsoft 
accounts should not be allowed to comment at all because they probably 
have no idea what they are doing[1].


I also suggest that it be hosted on a platform that respects its users, 
which excludes anything google cloudflare microsoft source-forge etc.


[1] qmastery man you clearly have actual skills why do you keep using 
one? its not like there aren't alternatives either paid or free not only 
are you giving up your data you are helping them with their AI research 
that will put people out of work every time you complete a re-captcha.


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Re: [qubes-users] Re: High spec laptop for Qubes OS

[taii...@gmx.com]

On 03/02/2018 10:13 PM, Tim W wrote:


Everyone knows those issues on this board and its understood.  Point being he 
asked for present day high end laptop but at the same time I will agree with 
you that for most basic use models its not so much the processor as it is ram 
amount but one thing for sure is you can not recommend a PC that one is not a 
laptop and two has no xen or qubes support i.e talon/powerpc.

I think its rather moot talking about intel backdoors when its 100% plausible 
that countless firmwares are backdoored.
Considering that the TALOS 2, KGPE-D16, KCMA-D8 and the G505S's 
firmwares are open source and every component such as pci-e addon cards 
that aren't are restricted by the IOMMU - again you give dangerous 
advice and suggest that people focus on some vague theoretical backdoor 
rather than what is a proven fact (that intel machines are owned by 
intel, not you) and thus tell them they shouldn't even bother with security.


I mean by those standards why use qubes at all? it probably has 
backdoors from all the worlds governments so you might as well just use 
windows 10!

Its been mentioned numerous times by Joanna Marek and others that at some point 
at this current point in consumer computing ayou must accept trust.  Whatever 
that point is may be different for different people but unless you are going to 
make a computer from silicon up and every line of code to include a compiler 
etc you must trust at some level.  Thus the whole idea of picking and choosing 
which of the possible violation is unacceptable is rather moot
So what you are saying is that because someone could have theoretically 
slipped some super clever backdoor in to an open source firmware it 
doesn't matter at all and why not just get a closed source firmware 
laptop with ME?


That is not at all what they are saying.

What exactly are your professional qualifications on this matter? Do you 
own at least one computer with open source firmware? If you are so 
concerned with your privacy why do you use gmail?


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Re: AW: Re: [qubes-users] For community by community - A way to preserve/focus everyones work going into Qubes, bottom-up

[799]

Hello Alex,


2018-03-04 11:49 GMT+01:00 Alex Dubois :

>
> I had some thought.
> - Qubes team probably don't have the time to spread too thin, and would
> prefer for us to help them on there Qubes repo
> - Some people invest time in documenting, but it takes time for Qubes team
> to validate the pull request, and sometime they may prefer to not accept
> the PR.
>

It is important to communicate why a pull request has not been approved.
This communication takes some time and also fixing the issues

I think one of these 2 options would be a first good step in the right
> direction:
> - Qubes team provides a fork of qubes-doc in another project on which
> community members accept PR that can then be accepted as PR upstream on the
> official qubes-doc, qubes team only manage the access right for the PR (?)
> - Someone is happy to put the effort to do option 1 and manage it (which
> should be limited to access right to that repo to trusted comminutity
> members to accept PR), as long as Qubes team agree with the approach
>

I agree that this will be the easiest option and allows us to start
collecting scripts.
I am unsure if we really need to fork the whole qubes-doc as this might
lead to confusion where to work when improving the existing documentation.

Can't we just create a new "community" repo where Pull request get reviewed
by us but finally approved by more experienced Power Users (this group can
include Qubes OS Team, but also experienced community members selected by
the Qubes Team/David)?

I have one concern with such proposal. A number of community proposal are
> sometimes not very secure (to be gentle). So ideally a layer of meta-data
> is added (maybe on a single index page), with the rating of the doc page.
>

Agree, it might feel frustrating in the beginning of you start contributing
docs and then find out that the "nice idea" that you had leads to several
security risks or is just not yet ready to be released.
But: this is exactly the point what I like about Qubes. That I can rely
that it's not that easy to do something stupid which compromises security.
As such writing docs or scripts always include a learning curve which is a
good thing.

[799]

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Re: [qubes-users] Re: non qubes

['awokd' via qubes-users]

On Sun, March 4, 2018 5:34 am, Tim W wrote:
> On Saturday, March 3, 2018 at 6:33:27 AM UTC-5, awokd wrote:

>> Buying items through Tor means using your real identity through Tor.
>> Some
>> people use Tor for everything including banking. Some use Tor for all
>> browsing except anything involving their real identity. Others just use
>>  Tor occasionally for some sites. Try searching tor-users mailing list
>> for questions similar to yours; you'll need to develop your own answer.
>
> That is how 99.9% of those caught using tor are found.  Its from bad
> opsec not actually breaking of tor itself.Tech even the way silk road
> was brought down was via a spoof more than 100% of breaking tor.  but
> like anything layers.  Whats great about qubes is it helps in numerous
> ways from being resistant to the spread of malware its easy integration
> oh whonix.  It ability to string numerous network tunneling chains
> together to creating multiple layers if done correctly have the effect of
> indecent cells working to a common goal with only the end user knowing
> all parts.  Qubes is but one part but its configuration allows for
> numerous ways and layer for security and or if done with proper opsec
> anonymity

Agree with what you say except I want to redefine "caught" to "security
failure". In the case of someone using Tor in conjunction with their real
identity, for example, they aren't worried about the site or any third
party trackers knowing WHO they are during that particular session. Their
primary concern (aka a security failure for them) might be revealing their
location by their real IP (or in the third party trackers case,
link-ability across sessions/other sites by super cookies etc.). The trade
off, though, is their traffic may get routed through network path that is
less trusted than user -> ISP -> ISP -> site; would be user -> Tor ->
random exit node -> random exit node's ISP -> ISP -> site. That's why
there is no comprehensive, simple answer on the "right" way to use Tor. It
varies by what you are trying to accomplish. See
https://www.torproject.org/docs/faq.html.en#WhatProtectionsDoesTorProvide
, or https://www.torproject.org/docs/documentation.html.en for more
details and support options.




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[qubes-users] WordPress on Qubes

[brandonmaytham06]

Hi,

So I'm running Qubes on 2 different machines it's amazing. One thing I have 
never been able to figure out though is how to run WordPress to develop 
multiple sites.

I am familiar with Vagrant but it requires Virtualbox however since you can run 
HVM's you shouldn't need vVirtualbox.

Any assistance would be much appreciated.

Kind Regards,

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Re: [qubes-users] Trouble updating templates

['awokd' via qubes-users]

On Sun, March 4, 2018 7:01 am, sevas wrote:
> I cant seem to update my templates.

>
> E: The repo "http://...; does no longer have a Release File.
> N: Updating from such a repo cant be done securely, and is therefore
> disabled by default. N: See apt-secure man page.

You will get the "no release file" message when the repo is down for
updates. Only thing to do is try again later.

> The Fedora template doesnt seem to connect at all.

Check the template logs in the build-logs directory for more detailed
messages.

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Re: AW: Re: [qubes-users] For community by community - A way to preserve/focus everyones work going into Qubes, bottom-up

[Alex Dubois]

On Sunday, 4 March 2018 01:11:08 UTC, Yuraeitha  wrote:
> On Sunday, March 4, 2018 at 2:01:40 AM UTC+1, Yuraeitha wrote:
> > @[799]
> > Maybe we can do both and increase the overall value altogether? I'll 
> > understand if you don't think that is a good idea, but lets for a moment 
> > try see if a merged forum/github-wiki concept can work. We could make a 
> > sub-forum or even a whole forum section for GitHub account activity. Make a 
> > sticky post which is kept updated, with overview and introducing every 
> > GitHub content developers who are making unofficial work to Qubes. Then 
> > below that, everyone can post a detailed post for their GitHub page, 
> > listing and giving brief or detailed explanations of what it brings of 
> > value. Essentially it's possible to promote ones work here, so that others 
> > can find it. 
> > 
> > So overall, for example one forum section for guides on how to use and get 
> > into Qubes (i.e. new people to Qubes, and how to get started). Another 
> > section for work on scripts and guides with sub-forums, moving the 
> > scripts/guides over as they develop. And a final forum section to polish 
> > the scripts/guides to finish them. Then we can have a forum section for 
> > GitHub pages as described above, this way, people can choose the degree 
> > they want others to meddle in their work. For example GitHub while 
> > cooperative, doesn't tend to have others come in unless there is an open 
> > invitation there, or if the other party is rude. But on the forum here, 
> > it's an open invitation to come and work together on a project. This way 
> > one can preserve a form of individuality too, and invite others in 
> > naturally through the forum as a framework, if that is what is desired. The 
> > forum will then focus on both approaches, whether it's promoting/sharing 
> > work done on, or inviting on projects for work to-do.
> > 
> > As such people can choose the style they like. Also in addition to that, 
> > not everyone enjoys working in groups, but some enjoys working alone (and 
> > that should be respected, imo). For example it may fuel energy and be 
> > relaxing to work alone (it can even be a way of relaxing after a long day 
> > at work/similar), while in contrast it would be exhausting to work with 
> > others. Essentially the embodiment of being introvert and extrovert, both I 
> > think is completely normal and none is better than the other. People who 
> > gain energy working with others prefer a different work-style. Nothing 
> > wrong with it either, it's just how people gain energy, there is nothing 
> > bad about either of the two.
> > 
> > I think if we mix the approaches together, we can add value to both 
> > suggestions. It's also easier to have discussions for both groups, for 
> > example a forum for the copyright/law discussions on using other people 
> > work, so that we can be better informed on such matters. We can also 
> > highlight some kinds of works in various of different forums, wherever 
> > there is people willing to discuss or read, and all this can be closely 
> > tied to GitHub and GitHub Wiki's. What do you think of a merged approach?
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> >   
> > @Andrew
> > On Saturday, March 3, 2018 at 6:25:08 AM UTC+1, Andrew David Wong wrote:
> > > -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
> > > Hash: SHA512
> > > 
> > > On 2018-03-02 23:16, Andrew David Wong wrote:
> > > > On 2018-03-02 15:05, Yuraeitha wrote:
> > > >> Some of the issues/questions addressed seems like they could be 
> > > >> solved quite effectively and efficiently on a highly
> > > >> customize-able forum?
> > > > 
> > > >> [...]
> > > > 
> > > >> Thoughts about using a forum?
> > > > 
> > > > FYI, in case you haven't seen this thread:
> > > > 
> > > > https://groups.google.com/d/topic/qubes-users/2rqas38ncFA/discussion
> > > >
> > >  
> > > While at it, here are some other old threads where similar ideas have
> > > been suggested:
> > > 
> > > https://groups.google.com/d/topic/qubes-users/D0YuoXMe_vE/discussion
> > > 
> > > https://groups.google.com/d/topic/qubes-users/es4q40dt1EE/discussion
> > > 
> > > Approximately every 6-12 months since the beginning of the project, a
> > > new person (including me, at one point, IIRC) suggests that there
> > > should be a Qubes wiki or forum, so you'll find many more threads like
> > > these if you search through the archives. :)
> > > 
> > > - -- 
> > > Andrew David Wong (Axon)
> > > Community Manager, Qubes OS
> > > https://www.qubes-os.org
> > > 
> > > -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-
> > > 
> > > iQIzBAEBCgAdFiEEZQ7rCYX0j3henGH1203TvDlQMDAFAlqaMZcACgkQ203TvDlQ
> > > MDDD4xAAwbajnwJ/PZxzrVnmzKECGkYVQQDs90LieN1s/ewuqilNx9Cdxk8Fy9La
> > > jokevIemgSB/QjqRD1zl2L0ksn/XhsOgQyWyK+RCSNWdKsvDhJtsVvh0B5SA5t4N
> > > FrMzig0uUHLodl9ZOT9ltvy/nOnMBj8YcfQ2i+3yEaOFSN6hc7DkyXnPRhLbEdrK
> > > pwJJxbdAkvocSu6tEL1xE86cZ1CZrBIHvrVt1oCy1QPCr5EBNUukg4JMGOygZNi2
> > > 

[qubes-users] thunderbird sending message failed connection to outgoing server (SMTP)

[jerry57]

Sending of the message failed.
The message could not be sent because the connection to Outgoing server (SMTP) 
*website of email* timed out. Try again.

Takes long time to send message and doesn't work.. also when installing 
torbirdy on thunderbird, it doesn't connect to emails at all.

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