Re: [qubes-users] Why should I clone a template?

[cooloutac]

I do it for reasons Andrew stated.  Cause when you restore the templates from 
backups if they have the default name I've had issues.

Also I keep the default templates for basic vms I don't customize and keep 
separate template for more customized vms,  usually which I consider less 
trusted.  So  just in case some bad driver or app I install that might 
comrpomise the template or if somehow some untrusted vm manage to corrupt 
something,  just in case.

For example I have custom template for disposable vm which I install printer 
drivers to.

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Re: [qubes-users] Why should I clone a template?

[Jean-Philippe Ouellet]

On Sat, May 20, 2017 at 8:43 PM, Todd Lasman  wrote:
> The dogma, as I understand it, is that it's safer to clone a template, make
> changes to the clone, then base your AppVM's off of that cloned template.
>
> - From the Qubes website:
> "It is highly recommended to clone the original template, and make any
> changes in the clone instead of the original template. The following command
> clones the template. Replace your-new-clone with your desired name..."
>
> My question is, why? It seems to me that if you ever needed the original
> template back, you could just download it again from the repository. Am I
> missing something?

Two reasons personally:

1) If you find yourself wanting to create an additional template in
the future not inheriting the changes of your existing templates, it
is convenient to have a minimal / default template around to clone in
order to guarantee a fresh start.

2) Testing if some observed behavior is also present in a "default" vm
before reporting issues upstream.

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Re: [qubes-users] Why should I clone a template?

[Andrew David Wong]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA512

On 2017-05-20 21:59, Todd Lasman wrote:
> 
> On 05/20/2017 06:12 PM, Andrew David Wong wrote:
>> On 2017-05-20 19:43, Todd Lasman wrote:
>>> The dogma, as I understand it, is that it's safer to clone a 
>>> template, make changes to the clone, then base your AppVM's
>>> off of that cloned template.
> 
>>> - From the Qubes website: "It is highly recommended to clone 
>>> the original template, and make any changes in the clone 
>>> instead of the original template. The following command clones 
>>> the template. Replace your-new-clone with your desired 
>>> name..."
> 
>>> My question is, why? It seems to me that if you ever needed
>>> the original template back, you could just download it again
>>> from the repository. Am I missing something?
> 
>>> Todd
> 
> 
>> The main reasons are that user customizations are not guaranteed 
>> to be preserved in RPM-managed templates, and they're harder to 
>> back up and restore.
> 
> 
> 
> Hmm. Not sure I understand that logic. The cloned templates still 
> need to be managed and backed up, so where's the advantage?
> 

Being RPM-managed is different from being "managed" in a general
sense. Cloned templates need to be managed in a general sense, but
they do not need to be (and are not) RPM-managed. This is an advantage
if they're extensively customized by the user, since any changes
pushed to RPM-managed templates won't break the user customizations.

Cloned templates are easier to back up and restore than RPM-managed
templates. Trying to restore an RPM-managed on a Qubes machine with an
existing RPM-managed template of the same kind can be very difficult.

- -- 
Andrew David Wong (Axon)
Community Manager, Qubes OS
https://www.qubes-os.org
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Re: [qubes-users] Why should I clone a template?

[Todd Lasman]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA256

On 05/20/2017 06:12 PM, Andrew David Wong wrote:
> On 2017-05-20 19:43, Todd Lasman wrote:
> > The dogma, as I understand it, is that it's safer to clone a template,
> > make changes to the clone, then base your AppVM's off of that cloned
> > template.
>
> > - From the Qubes website:
> > "It is highly recommended to clone the original template, and make any
> > changes in the clone instead of the original template. The following
> > command clones the template. Replace your-new-clone with your desired
> > name..."
>
> > My question is, why? It seems to me that if you ever needed the original
> > template back, you could just download it again from the repository. Am
> > I missing something?
>
> > Todd
>
>
> The main reasons are that user customizations are not guaranteed to be
> preserved in RPM-managed templates, and they're harder to back up and
> restore.
>
>

Hmm. Not sure I understand that logic. The cloned templates still need
to be managed and backed up, so where's the advantage?
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Re: [qubes-users] Why should I clone a template?

[Andrew David Wong]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA512

On 2017-05-20 19:43, Todd Lasman wrote:
> The dogma, as I understand it, is that it's safer to clone a template,
> make changes to the clone, then base your AppVM's off of that cloned
> template.
> 
> - From the Qubes website:
> "It is highly recommended to clone the original template, and make any
> changes in the clone instead of the original template. The following
> command clones the template. Replace your-new-clone with your desired
> name..."
> 
> My question is, why? It seems to me that if you ever needed the original
> template back, you could just download it again from the repository. Am
> I missing something?
> 
> Todd
> 

The main reasons are that user customizations are not guaranteed to be
preserved in RPM-managed templates, and they're harder to back up and
restore.

- -- 
Andrew David Wong (Axon)
Community Manager, Qubes OS
https://www.qubes-os.org
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[qubes-users] Why should I clone a template?

[Todd Lasman]

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Hash: SHA256

The dogma, as I understand it, is that it's safer to clone a template,
make changes to the clone, then base your AppVM's off of that cloned
template.

- From the Qubes website:
"It is highly recommended to clone the original template, and make any
changes in the clone instead of the original template. The following
command clones the template. Replace your-new-clone with your desired
name..."

My question is, why? It seems to me that if you ever needed the original
template back, you could just download it again from the repository. Am
I missing something?

Todd

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