Re: [ntp:questions] Default total number of servers NTP wants to have when using pool .....

[Harlan Stenn]

Miroslav Lichvar writes:
> On Wed, Dec 17, 2014 at 12:04:04PM +, Harlan Stenn wrote:
> > I'd love to see discussion about "what should the default number of
> > servers queried be for the 'pool' directive?"
> 
> The "How do I use pool.ntp.org?" page [1] is pretty clear, quoting:
> 
>   Be friendly. Many servers are provided by volunteers, and almost
>   all time servers are really file or mail or webservers which just
>   happen to also run ntp. So don't use more than four time servers
>   in your configuration, and don't play tricks with burst or
>   minpoll - all you will gain is extra load on the volunteer time
>   servers.
> 
> > There is clearly a tradeoff, and I'm inclined to say that "between 5 and
> > 9" is probably a good number.
> 
> Ok, but examples of ntpd configuration using pool.ntp.org should follow
> their policy. Maybe you can convince them to change it. Do you think
> the servers are ready to handle twice as many clients?
> 
> [1] http://www.pool.ntp.org/en/use.html

What works best for a running instance of ntpd is not always going to be
what works best for the pool servers.

Choosing the right balance is something that happens "now" and the
balance point will change over time.

The ntp.conf generator project NTF wants to work on can help with that.
As soon as NTF gets the resources to move forward with that, it will happen.

With decent GPS pucks costing http://lists.ntp.org/listinfo/questions

Re: [ntp:questions] Default total number of servers NTP wants to have when using pool .....

[Paul]

On Wed, Dec 17, 2014 at 7:04 AM, Harlan Stenn  wrote:

> I'd love to see discussion about "what should the default number of
> servers queried be for the 'pool' directive?"
>

I don't think it matters.  Properly configured systems and sub-nets will
have little impact and poorly configured systems can have significant
impact regardless of maxclocks.
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Re: [ntp:questions] Default total number of servers NTP wants to have when using pool .....

[Miroslav Lichvar]

On Wed, Dec 17, 2014 at 12:04:04PM +, Harlan Stenn wrote:
> I'd love to see discussion about "what should the default number of
> servers queried be for the 'pool' directive?"

The "How do I use pool.ntp.org?" page [1] is pretty clear, quoting:

  Be friendly. Many servers are provided by volunteers, and almost
  all time servers are really file or mail or webservers which just
  happen to also run ntp. So don't use more than four time servers
  in your configuration, and don't play tricks with burst or
  minpoll - all you will gain is extra load on the volunteer time
  servers.

> There is clearly a tradeoff, and I'm inclined to say that "between 5 and
> 9" is probably a good number.

Ok, but examples of ntpd configuration using pool.ntp.org should follow
their policy. Maybe you can convince them to change it. Do you think
the servers are ready to handle twice as many clients?

[1] http://www.pool.ntp.org/en/use.html

-- 
Miroslav Lichvar
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Re: [ntp:questions] Default total number of servers NTP wants to have when using pool .....

[Harlan Stenn]

I'd love to see discussion about "what should the default number of
servers queried be for the 'pool' directive?"

There is clearly a tradeoff, and I'm inclined to say that "between 5 and
9" is probably a good number.  It's certainly easy enough for folks to
join the pool, and I'd like to make that easier.

Having said that, this is clearly a case where the "current reality" can
change, and this is something the web-based ntp.conf generator (that NTF
wants to make available) should easily be able to handle.

We need some support to get this going, volunteers and/or $ will do it.
-- 
Harlan Stenn 
http://networktimefoundation.org - be a member!

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Re: [ntp:questions] Default total number of servers NTP wants to have when using pool .....

[Miroslav Lichvar]

On Mon, Dec 08, 2014 at 01:47:33PM -0500, Paul wrote:
> On Mon, Dec 8, 2014 at 12:27 PM, David Taylor <
> david-tay...@blueyonder.co.uk.invalid> wrote:
> 
> > When using the pool directive, NTP tries to get a certain total number of
> > servers.  What is that number, please (I don't know where to find it in the
> > source code).  I'm seeing a total of 9 servers, with ten lines in the ntpq
> > -pn output, one line being the pool directive itself.  Is that correct and
> > expected?
> >
> 
> maxclock *maxclock*Specify the maximum number of servers retained by the
> server discovery schemes. The default is 10. See the Automatic Server
> Discovery  page
> for further details.

Should be the example of simple client configuration on ntp wiki [1]
updated to include "tos maxclock 5" to not increase the NTP traffic as
users and OS vendors will be switching to the pool directive? Or
change the default value of maxclock? 

[1] http://support.ntp.org/bin/view/Support/ConfiguringNTP#Section_6.10.

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Miroslav Lichvar
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Re: [ntp:questions] Default total number of servers NTP wants to have when using pool .....

[David Taylor]

On 08/12/2014 18:47, Paul wrote:

On Mon, Dec 8, 2014 at 12:27 PM, David Taylor <
david-tay...@blueyonder.co.uk.invalid> wrote:


When using the pool directive, NTP tries to get a certain total number of
servers.  What is that number, please (I don't know where to find it in the
source code).  I'm seeing a total of 9 servers, with ten lines in the ntpq
-pn output, one line being the pool directive itself.  Is that correct and
expected?



maxclock *maxclock*Specify the maximum number of servers retained by the
server discovery schemes. The default is 10. See the Automatic Server
Discovery  page
for further details.

And yes, the pool line counts as one so nine sounds about right.  This was
just a topic of discussion seach for pool in the subject line.


Thanks, Paul, and for the reference as well.  All looks to be correct.

--
Cheers,
David
Web: http://www.satsignal.eu

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Re: [ntp:questions] Default total number of servers NTP wants to have when using pool .....

[Paul]

On Mon, Dec 8, 2014 at 12:27 PM, David Taylor <
david-tay...@blueyonder.co.uk.invalid> wrote:

> When using the pool directive, NTP tries to get a certain total number of
> servers.  What is that number, please (I don't know where to find it in the
> source code).  I'm seeing a total of 9 servers, with ten lines in the ntpq
> -pn output, one line being the pool directive itself.  Is that correct and
> expected?
>

maxclock *maxclock*Specify the maximum number of servers retained by the
server discovery schemes. The default is 10. See the Automatic Server
Discovery  page
for further details.

And yes, the pool line counts as one so nine sounds about right.  This was
just a topic of discussion seach for pool in the subject line.
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[ntp:questions] Default total number of servers NTP wants to have when using pool .....

[David Taylor]

When using the pool directive, NTP tries to get a certain total number 
of servers.  What is that number, please (I don't know where to find it 
in the source code).  I'm seeing a total of 9 servers, with ten lines in 
the ntpq -pn output, one line being the pool directive itself.  Is that 
correct and expected?

--
Thanks,
David
Web: http://www.satsignal.eu

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