Re: [ntp:questions] Simple but good NTP server
Richard B. Gilbert wrote: If you are talking about REAL routers, they are not cheap. If you are talking about SOHO routers such as sold by LinkSys they are cheap enough but building NTPD to run on one might be fairly difficult. OpenWRT and similar Linux Distributions have binary packages for ntpd. ( And it is not much hassle to set up a crossbuild environment. Well if you are on windows : SOL ) Just about any PC built in the last ten years should be able to run Solaris or Linux and serve time using a GPS reference clock. Those small ARM platforms take about 10W, $ANY x86 PC takes about 100++W. Occupied real estate is quite different too. uwe ___ questions mailing list questions@lists.ntp.org http://lists.ntp.org/listinfo/questions
Re: [ntp:questions] Simple but good NTP server
OpenMoko's FreeRunner Hardware could be interesting. GPS, WLAN, USB-Net on Board ( Arm platform, ntpd works out of the box ). http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo_FreeRunner_GTA02_Hardware uwe ___ questions mailing list questions@lists.ntp.org http://lists.ntp.org/listinfo/questions
Re: [ntp:questions] Simple but good NTP server
Maarten Wiltink wrote: Why did you get 4801s? I recall reading here that the 4501 was no longer for sale, but Soekris' own website offers them. I didn't get them specifically for timing purposes, but rather to act as a platform on which to build my own access routers (with added DSL and wifi peripherals). Not the cheapest way of doing that (which would be to get a Linksys box and run openwrt), but fun nonetheless. Jan ___ questions mailing list questions@lists.ntp.org http://lists.ntp.org/listinfo/questions
[ntp:questions] Simple but good NTP server (was: Re: Timekeeping broken on Windows XP with multimedia timer enabled (-M option))
Uwe Klein uwe_klein_habertw...@t-online.de wrote in message news:r91037-grd@klein-habertwedt.de... David J Taylor wrote: [] I would still very much like to have a low-powered (watts) system running NTP perhaps with a good (for timekeeping) FreeBSD version. Something the size of a home router, with a serial port for the GPS. Looking for better than (say) ten microsecond accuracy. About US $100-150. Unpack and Work or Fiddle a Bit ? For Fiddle a Bit: There is a wide spectrum of hardware available. Take any of the Low Cost Thin clients ( Linux on ARM ) Take any of the InternetRadio sets ( same, Linux on ARM ) Take any of the Low Cost Router/WlanAccessPoint Hardware that can have OpenWRT or similar installed. ( Linux on usually ARM ) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_router_or_firewall_distributions Some even have ntpd in their package repository ;-) uwe Thanks for that, Uwe. Ideally, unpack and work! A lot of hardware either doesn't have the serial port, or is grossly over-priced (as it may be intended for industrial applications). I think I would want a ready-to-run NTP, as I don't do Linux. Something configurable via a Web interface. Routers would indeed be a good choice, but there are hundreds! Someone must have already researched the possibilities and be able to advise models with a serial port and quality NTP? Cheers, David ___ questions mailing list questions@lists.ntp.org http://lists.ntp.org/listinfo/questions
Re: [ntp:questions] Simple but good NTP server
David J Taylor wrote: Uwe Klein uwe_klein_habertw...@t-online.de wrote in message news:r91037-grd@klein-habertwedt.de... David J Taylor wrote: [] I would still very much like to have a low-powered (watts) system running NTP perhaps with a good (for timekeeping) FreeBSD version. Something the size of a home router, with a serial port for the GPS. Looking for better than (say) ten microsecond accuracy. About US $100-150. Unpack and Work or Fiddle a Bit ? For Fiddle a Bit: There is a wide spectrum of hardware available. Take any of the Low Cost Thin clients ( Linux on ARM ) Take any of the InternetRadio sets ( same, Linux on ARM ) Take any of the Low Cost Router/WlanAccessPoint Hardware that can have OpenWRT or similar installed. ( Linux on usually ARM ) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_router_or_firewall_distributions Some even have ntpd in their package repository ;-) uwe Thanks for that, Uwe. Ideally, unpack and work! A lot of hardware either doesn't have the serial port, or is grossly over-priced (as it may be intended for industrial applications). I think I would want a ready-to-run NTP, as I don't do Linux. Something configurable via a Web interface. Routers would indeed be a good choice, but there are hundreds! Someone must have already researched the possibilities and be able to advise models with a serial port and quality NTP? Not yet using this but have a 20 quid+vat router type board here from Omnima.co.uk that has ADM5120P chip, wan + 4xlan ethernet, 2xusb but serial need some wiring. Will run Linux and can be supplied with Squidge on CD, also for me will run NetBSD. Bit on top end for power There's also an ARM based device for under 30quid that will run from power via USB connection, but wouldn't be as easy to get going for what I need although with more onboard flash and ram. Google for bifferboard ! Bifferboard. 150MHz CPU, Intel 486SX instruction set, ! MMU. 1 watt power consumption (200mA @5v); ! 68mm x 28mm x 21mm (weight 28g); 32MB SDRAM/8MB Flash I was worried that SX might be npu deficient and may cause problems. Both my 486sx have addon 486dx for npu. David ___ questions mailing list questions@lists.ntp.org http://lists.ntp.org/listinfo/questions
Re: [ntp:questions] Simple but good NTP server
David J Taylor wrote: Uwe Klein uwe_klein_habertw...@t-online.de wrote in message news:r91037-grd@klein-habertwedt.de... David J Taylor wrote: [] I would still very much like to have a low-powered (watts) system running NTP perhaps with a good (for timekeeping) FreeBSD version. Something the size of a home router, with a serial port for the GPS. Looking for better than (say) ten microsecond accuracy. About US $100-150. Unpack and Work or Fiddle a Bit ? For Fiddle a Bit: There is a wide spectrum of hardware available. Take any of the Low Cost Thin clients ( Linux on ARM ) Take any of the InternetRadio sets ( same, Linux on ARM ) Take any of the Low Cost Router/WlanAccessPoint Hardware that can have OpenWRT or similar installed. ( Linux on usually ARM ) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_router_or_firewall_distributions Some even have ntpd in their package repository ;-) uwe Thanks for that, Uwe. Ideally, unpack and work! A lot of hardware either doesn't have the serial port, or is grossly over-priced (as it may be intended for industrial applications). I think I would want a ready-to-run NTP, as I don't do Linux. Something configurable via a Web interface. Routers would indeed be a good choice, but there are hundreds! Someone must have already researched the possibilities and be able to advise models with a serial port and quality NTP? Routers usually do not make good GPS clocks! If they are functioning as routers they have work to do and time keeping is not a priority. Used computers (X86) are available for free if you don't mind dumpster diving for them. You can run Solaris on one. Solaris, is not Linux but it looks like Linux and uses something close to the Linux command line interface. You may find that it's better documented than Linux. It's a commercial O/S and supported by the vendor. Support, if you need it, will cost you money. If your objection to Linux is based on the user interface and/or the libraries and tools you are probably SOL; the only viable alternative is some flavor of Windows! NTP is pretty much the same no matter what platform you run it on. The O/S vendor may add a coat of paint or some bells and whistles but that's probably the ONLY difference. ___ questions mailing list questions@lists.ntp.org http://lists.ntp.org/listinfo/questions
Re: [ntp:questions] Simple but good NTP server
Richard B. Gilbert writes: Routers usually do not make good GPS clocks! If they are functioning as routers they have work to do and time keeping is not a priority. I think the idea is to buy a router because it is cheap hardware but to use it only to run NTP. -- John Hasler jhas...@newsguy.com Dancing Horse Hill Elmwood, WI USA ___ questions mailing list questions@lists.ntp.org http://lists.ntp.org/listinfo/questions
Re: [ntp:questions] Simple but good NTP server
Richard B. Gilbert rgilber...@comcast.net wrote in message news:e-odnz0opzrljsdwnz2dnuvz_tgdn...@giganews.com... [] Routers usually do not make good GPS clocks! If they are functioning as routers they have work to do and time keeping is not a priority. Indeed! I was thinking of the router just as a source of low-cost, ready to run hardware, with a completely different OS. Used computers (X86) are available for free if you don't mind dumpster diving for them. You can run Solaris on one. Solaris, is not Linux but it looks like Linux and uses something close to the Linux command line interface. You may find that it's better documented than Linux. It's a commercial O/S and supported by the vendor. Support, if you need it, will cost you money. I already have a FreeBSD PC which I would run, but I wanted a much lower power, and small form factor device. If your objection to Linux is based on the user interface and/or the libraries and tools you are probably SOL; the only viable alternative is some flavor of Windows! I have no objection to Linux as such (although I read that FreeBSD may be better), just that I am very unfamiliar with it, hence would most likely need a pre-built OS. If loading the OS is a matter of FTP from Windows, or were configuring the OS a matter of using a Web-style interface to the box, I could comfortably manage that. I /did/ use the command-line when setting up the FreeBSD box, and I could certainly follow instructions for that. NTP is pretty much the same no matter what platform you run it on. The O/S vendor may add a coat of paint or some bells and whistles but that's probably the ONLY difference. Fair enough, Richard. Interesting to have your thoughts. Cheers, David ___ questions mailing list questions@lists.ntp.org http://lists.ntp.org/listinfo/questions
Re: [ntp:questions] Simple but good NTP server
David Lord sn...@lordynet.org wrote in message news:7s5qdof6l...@mid.individual.net... [] Not yet using this but have a 20 quid+vat router type board here from Omnima.co.uk that has ADM5120P chip, wan + 4xlan ethernet, 2xusb but serial need some wiring. Will run Linux and can be supplied with Squidge on CD, also for me will run NetBSD. Bit on top end for power That looks very neat - you could get the enclosure from them, and perhaps the power adaptor as well. I do wonder, though, whether by the time you've bought that, you might have paid as much as for a low-end router? There's also an ARM based device for under 30quid that will run from power via USB connection, but wouldn't be as easy to get going for what I need although with more onboard flash and ram. Google for bifferboard ! Bifferboard. 150MHz CPU, Intel 486SX instruction set, ! MMU. 1 watt power consumption (200mA @5v); ! 68mm x 28mm x 21mm (weight 28g); 32MB SDRAM/8MB Flash I was worried that SX might be npu deficient and may cause problems. Both my 486sx have addon 486dx for npu. David Now the bifferboard is exceptionally neat! Would hang off the back of a PC or could be powered from my existing power box for the GPS 18 LVC. You get something like that working with the GPS 18 and you could sell me one! (Or one of the Omnima boxed and ready to go). Noted about the lack of numeric co-processor, though. Cheers, David ___ questions mailing list questions@lists.ntp.org http://lists.ntp.org/listinfo/questions
Re: [ntp:questions] Simple but good NTP server
Richard B. Gilbert wrote: Routers usually do not make good GPS clocks! If they are functioning as routers they have work to do and time keeping is not a priority. You don't have to use the hardware for routing. But is is the cheapest solution imho for a system complete with wallwart and enclosure. For OpenWRT which seems to be rather versatile you get a wide range of supported hardware: http://oldwiki.openwrt.org/TableOfHardware.html Or some Internet Radio platform: http://internetradiohack.blogspot.com/ uwe ___ questions mailing list questions@lists.ntp.org http://lists.ntp.org/listinfo/questions
Re: [ntp:questions] Simple but good NTP server
Uwe Klein wrote: Richard B. Gilbert wrote: Routers usually do not make good GPS clocks! If they are functioning as routers they have work to do and time keeping is not a priority. You don't have to use the hardware for routing. But is is the cheapest solution imho for a system complete with wallwart and enclosure. The canonical DIY ntp server would be to base them on phk's choice, the Soekris single-board computer: http://phk.freebsd.dk/soekris/pps/ Since this board has a hw counter capable of accurately timing the PPS signals,Poul-Henning got it to run at sub-us accuracy, using a cheap timing GPS. Terje -- - Terje.Mathisen at tmsw.no almost all programming can be viewed as an exercise in caching ___ questions mailing list questions@lists.ntp.org http://lists.ntp.org/listinfo/questions
Re: [ntp:questions] Simple but good NTP server
Terje Mathisen wrote: The canonical DIY ntp server would be to base them on phk's choice, the Soekris single-board computer: http://phk.freebsd.dk/soekris/pps/ Since this board has a hw counter capable of accurately timing the PPS signals,Poul-Henning got it to run at sub-us accuracy, using a cheap timing GPS. A few more points: - It does not explicitly say so at the page above, but the Soekris model that Poul-Henning used was the 4501. I've only got 4801s and they're not as good for timing. - The results shown on the above page are of a 4501 that has been significantly hacked by adding a Rubidium oscillator to the mix. Not for the faint hearted and not cheap either. - The net4501 costs €136 for the board and case. Add €15 for the power supply. Then add around €100 for a GPS riming receiver and another $1700 for the Rubidium standard. Admittedly the latter is optional if your needs are modest. Cheers, Jan ___ questions mailing list questions@lists.ntp.org http://lists.ntp.org/listinfo/questions
Re: [ntp:questions] Simple but good NTP server
Jan Ceuleers wrote: Terje Mathisen wrote: The canonical DIY ntp server would be to base them on phk's choice, the Soekris single-board computer: http://phk.freebsd.dk/soekris/pps/ Since this board has a hw counter capable of accurately timing the PPS signals,Poul-Henning got it to run at sub-us accuracy, using a cheap timing GPS. A few more points: - It does not explicitly say so at the page above, but the Soekris model that Poul-Henning used was the 4501. I've only got 4801s and they're not as good for timing. - The results shown on the above page are of a 4501 that has been significantly hacked by adding a Rubidium oscillator to the mix. Not for the faint hearted and not cheap either. - The net4501 costs €136 for the board and case. Add €15 for the power supply. Then add around €100 for a GPS riming receiver and another $1700 for the Rubidium standard. Admittedly the latter is optional if your needs are modest. You're right that the hardware hacks (documented on my web site at http://www.febo.com/pages/soekris) aren't for the faint-hearted. I'd like to stress, though, that you don't need an expensive Rubidium or Cesium standard to make a noticeable improvement in timekeeping, particularly short-term response to things like ambient temperature changes. An inexpensive ($20) temperature compensated crystal oscillator (TCXO) will be significantly better than the stock crystal on the Soekris (or any other PC). The quality of the oscillator will impact stability over time periods shorter than NTP's loop time constant, but will have no effect over longer time intervals where NTP steers the clock. The basic idea is that *anything* will be more stable than the crystal on the motherboard. BTW -- if you get a TXCO operating directly at 33.333 MHz, you don't need the ClockBlock board either, which saves $70 over the configuration shown in my article. And if you can live with a surplus solution, there are tons of LPRO-101 Rubidium oscillators available on eBay for less than $100. They require soldering to interface, but if you're already hacking a Soekris board, the wiring is trivial. John ___ questions mailing list questions@lists.ntp.org http://lists.ntp.org/listinfo/questions
Re: [ntp:questions] Simple but good NTP server
Jan Ceuleers janspam.ceule...@skynet.be wrote in message news:4b5dda15$0$2866$ba620...@news.skynet.be... [...] - It does not explicitly say so at the page above, but the Soekris model that Poul-Henning used was the 4501. I've only got 4801s and they're not as good for timing. Why did you get 4801s? I recall reading here that the 4501 was no longer for sale, but Soekris' own website offers them. Groetjes, Maarten Wiltink ___ questions mailing list questions@lists.ntp.org http://lists.ntp.org/listinfo/questions
Re: [ntp:questions] Simple but good NTP server
John Hasler wrote: Richard B. Gilbert writes: Routers usually do not make good GPS clocks! If they are functioning as routers they have work to do and time keeping is not a priority. I think the idea is to buy a router because it is cheap hardware but to use it only to run NTP. If you are talking about REAL routers, they are not cheap. If you are talking about SOHO routers such as sold by LinkSys they are cheap enough but building NTPD to run on one might be fairly difficult. Just about any PC built in the last ten years should be able to run Solaris or Linux and serve time using a GPS reference clock. ___ questions mailing list questions@lists.ntp.org http://lists.ntp.org/listinfo/questions
Re: [ntp:questions] Simple but good NTP server
John Hasler wrote: Richard B. Gilbert writes: If you are talking about REAL routers, they are not cheap. If you are talking about SOHO routers such as sold by LinkSys they are cheap enough but building NTPD to run on one might be fairly difficult. Should be quite straightforward to get Chrony or Ntpd running on one the SOHO routers on which Linux can be installed. Seems active http://www.google.com/search?q=Chrony+2010+site:openwrt.org http://www.google.com/search?q=NTPd+2010+site:openwrt.org -- E-Mail Sent to this address blackl...@anitech-systems.com will be added to the BlackLists. ___ questions mailing list questions@lists.ntp.org http://lists.ntp.org/listinfo/questions
