Re: [Rd] named arguments discouraged in `[.data.frame` and `[<-.data.frame`
Thanks Emil for your thorough answer. It really clarified a lot to me. And
revealed (even more of) my ignorance.
>-Original Message-
>From: Emil Bode
>Sent: Thursday, November 29, 2018 10:48 AM
>To: Henrik Pärn ; r-devel@r-project.org
>Subject: Re: [Rd] named arguments discouraged in `[.data.frame` and `[<-
>.data.frame`
>
>Well, the situation with `[.data.frame` (and [<-) is complicated by the fact
>that
>the data.frame-method is not a primitive, but the generic IS.
>I'm not sure about dispatch for primitive-generics, but I bet it's done on the
>first argument (as with S3). Which means `[`(j=1:2,d,i=1) has nothing to do
>with `[.data.frame`, as some internal code equivalent to something like
>`[.integer` is called (`[.integer` is not an R-function, but I guess it's
>implemented in the C-code for `[`)
>And note that `[.data.frame`(j=1:2,d,i=1) does work (throws a warning, but
>returns the right result), because then you're simply calling the direct R-
>function, and matching by name is done.
>
>But I think the main reason for the warning is forwards compatibility (and
>maybe backwards?). As of this version, `[.data.frame`(x = d, j = 2, i = 1)
>works
>fine, and `[.data.frame` is a regular R-function. But it's used a lot, I
>wouldn't be
>surprised if some future R-version would implement it as a primitive.
>Without the warning, implementing [.data.frame as a primitive would involve
>a LOT of issues where older code breaks. With the warning, we can make clear
>to any users that calls like this one are undefined. They may work for now, but
>one shouldn't rely on it. Which means only the "right" order may be used, and
>then naming them is superfluous.
>
>By the way, when trying some things I noticed something else, which I'll send
>a separate mail about...
>
>Cheers,
>Emil
>
>On 29/11/2018, 09:20, "R-devel on behalf of Henrik Pärn" boun...@r-project.org on behalf of henrik.p...@ntnu.no> wrote:
>
>Thanks Bill and Michael for taking the time to share your knowledge!
>
>As a further background to my question, here are two examples that I
>forgot to include in my original post (reminded by Michael's answer). I
>swapped the i and j arguments in `[.data.frame` and `[<-.data.frame`. With
>warnings, but else without (?) problem. Using Bill's data:
>
>`[.data.frame`(x = d, i = 1, j = 2)
># [1] 12
>
>`[.data.frame`(x = d, j = 2, i = 1)
># [1] 12
>
>And similar for `[<-.data.frame` :
>`[<-.data.frame`(x = d, i = 1, j = 2, value = 1122)
>`[<-.data.frame`(x = d, j = 2, i = 1, value = 12)
>
>Because this seemed to work, I made the hasty conclusion that argument
>switching _wasn't_ a problem for `[.data frame`, and that we could rely on
>exact matching on tags. But apparently not: despite that `[.data.frame` and
>`[<-.data.frame` are _not_ primitive functions, positional matching is done
>there as well. Sometimes. At least when 'x' argument is not first, as shown in
>Bill's examples. Obviously my "test" was insufficient...
>
>Cheers,
>
>Henrik
>
>
>
>From: William Dunlap
>Sent: Wednesday, November 28, 2018 9:10 PM
>To: Henrik Pärn
>Cc: r-devel@r-project.org
>Subject: Re: [Rd] named arguments discouraged in `[.data.frame` and `[<-
>.data.frame`
>
>They can get bitten in the last two lines of this example, where the 'x'
>argument is not first:
>> d <- data.frame(C1=c(r1=11,r2=21,r3=31), C2=c(12,22,32))
>> d[1,1:2]
> C1 C2
>r1 11 12
>> `[`(d,j=1:2,i=1)
> C1 C2
>r1 11 12
>Warning message:
>In `[.data.frame`(d, j = 1:2, i = 1) :
> named arguments other than 'drop' are discouraged
>> `[`(j=1:2,d,i=1)
>Error in (1:2)[d, i = 1] : incorrect number of dimensions
>> do.call("[", list(j=1:2, i=1, x=d))
>Error in 1:2[i = 1, x = list(C1 = c(11, 21, 31), C2 = c(12, 22, 32))] :
> incorrect number of dimensions
>
>Bill Dunlap
>TIBCO Software
>wdunlap http://tibco.com
>
>
>On Wed, Nov 28, 2018 at 11:30 AM Henrik Pärn
><mailto:henrik.p...@ntnu.no> wrote:
>tl;dr:
>
>Why are named arguments discouraged in `[.data.frame`, `[<-.data.frame`
>and `[[.data.frame`?
>
>(because this question is of the kind 'why is R designed like this?', I
> though
>R-devel would be more appropriate than R-help)
>
>#
>
>Background:
>
>Now and then students presents there fancy functions like this:
>
>myfancyfun(d,12,0.3,0.2,500,1000,FALSE,TRUE,FALSE,TRUE,FALSE)
>
>Incomprehensible. Thus, I encourage
Re: [Rd] named arguments discouraged in `[.data.frame` and `[<-.data.frame`
Well, the situation with `[.data.frame` (and [<-) is complicated by the fact
that the data.frame-method is not a primitive, but the generic IS.
I'm not sure about dispatch for primitive-generics, but I bet it's done on the
first argument (as with S3). Which means `[`(j=1:2,d,i=1) has nothing to do
with `[.data.frame`, as some internal code equivalent to something like
`[.integer` is called (`[.integer` is not an R-function, but I guess it's
implemented in the C-code for `[`)
And note that `[.data.frame`(j=1:2,d,i=1) does work (throws a warning, but
returns the right result), because then you're simply calling the direct
R-function, and matching by name is done.
But I think the main reason for the warning is forwards compatibility (and
maybe backwards?). As of this version, `[.data.frame`(x = d, j = 2, i = 1)
works fine, and `[.data.frame` is a regular R-function. But it's used a lot, I
wouldn't be surprised if some future R-version would implement it as a
primitive.
Without the warning, implementing [.data.frame as a primitive would involve a
LOT of issues where older code breaks. With the warning, we can make clear to
any users that calls like this one are undefined. They may work for now, but
one shouldn't rely on it. Which means only the "right" order may be used, and
then naming them is superfluous.
By the way, when trying some things I noticed something else, which I'll send a
separate mail about...
Cheers,
Emil
On 29/11/2018, 09:20, "R-devel on behalf of Henrik Pärn"
wrote:
Thanks Bill and Michael for taking the time to share your knowledge!
As a further background to my question, here are two examples that I forgot
to include in my original post (reminded by Michael's answer). I swapped the i
and j arguments in `[.data.frame` and `[<-.data.frame`. With warnings, but else
without (?) problem. Using Bill's data:
`[.data.frame`(x = d, i = 1, j = 2)
# [1] 12
`[.data.frame`(x = d, j = 2, i = 1)
# [1] 12
And similar for `[<-.data.frame` :
`[<-.data.frame`(x = d, i = 1, j = 2, value = 1122)
`[<-.data.frame`(x = d, j = 2, i = 1, value = 12)
Because this seemed to work, I made the hasty conclusion that argument
switching _wasn't_ a problem for `[.data frame`, and that we could rely on
exact matching on tags. But apparently not: despite that `[.data.frame` and
`[<-.data.frame` are _not_ primitive functions, positional matching is done
there as well. Sometimes. At least when 'x' argument is not first, as shown in
Bill's examples. Obviously my "test" was insufficient...
Cheers,
Henrik
From: William Dunlap
Sent: Wednesday, November 28, 2018 9:10 PM
To: Henrik Pärn
Cc: r-devel@r-project.org
Subject: Re: [Rd] named arguments discouraged in `[.data.frame` and
`[<-.data.frame`
They can get bitten in the last two lines of this example, where the 'x'
argument is not first:
> d <- data.frame(C1=c(r1=11,r2=21,r3=31), C2=c(12,22,32))
> d[1,1:2]
C1 C2
r1 11 12
> `[`(d,j=1:2,i=1)
C1 C2
r1 11 12
Warning message:
In `[.data.frame`(d, j = 1:2, i = 1) :
named arguments other than 'drop' are discouraged
> `[`(j=1:2,d,i=1)
Error in (1:2)[d, i = 1] : incorrect number of dimensions
> do.call("[", list(j=1:2, i=1, x=d))
Error in 1:2[i = 1, x = list(C1 = c(11, 21, 31), C2 = c(12, 22, 32))] :
incorrect number of dimensions
Bill Dunlap
TIBCO Software
wdunlap http://tibco.com
On Wed, Nov 28, 2018 at 11:30 AM Henrik Pärn <mailto:henrik.p...@ntnu.no>
wrote:
tl;dr:
Why are named arguments discouraged in `[.data.frame`, `[<-.data.frame` and
`[[.data.frame`?
(because this question is of the kind 'why is R designed like this?', I
though R-devel would be more appropriate than R-help)
#
Background:
Now and then students presents there fancy functions like this:
myfancyfun(d,12,0.3,0.2,500,1000,FALSE,TRUE,FALSE,TRUE,FALSE)
Incomprehensible. Thus, I encourage them to use spaces and name arguments,
_at least_ when trying to communicate their code with others. Something like:
myfancyfun(data = d, n = 12, gamma = 0.3, prob = 0.2,
size = 500, niter = 1000, model = FALSE,
scale = TRUE, drop = FALSE, plot = TRUE, save = FALSE)
Then some overzealous students started to use named arguments everywhere.
E-v-e-r-y-w-h-e-r-e. Even in the most basic situation when indexing vectors (as
a subtle protest?), like:
vec <- 1:9
vec[i = 4]
`[`(x = vec, i = 4)
vec[[i = 4]]
`[[`(x = vec, i = 4)
vec[i = 4] <- 10
`[<-`(x = vec, i = 4, value = 10)
...or when indexing matrices:
Re: [Rd] named arguments discouraged in `[.data.frame` and `[<-.data.frame`
Thanks Bill and Michael for taking the time to share your knowledge!
As a further background to my question, here are two examples that I forgot to
include in my original post (reminded by Michael's answer). I swapped the i and
j arguments in `[.data.frame` and `[<-.data.frame`. With warnings, but else
without (?) problem. Using Bill's data:
`[.data.frame`(x = d, i = 1, j = 2)
# [1] 12
`[.data.frame`(x = d, j = 2, i = 1)
# [1] 12
And similar for `[<-.data.frame` :
`[<-.data.frame`(x = d, i = 1, j = 2, value = 1122)
`[<-.data.frame`(x = d, j = 2, i = 1, value = 12)
Because this seemed to work, I made the hasty conclusion that argument
switching _wasn't_ a problem for `[.data frame`, and that we could rely on
exact matching on tags. But apparently not: despite that `[.data.frame` and
`[<-.data.frame` are _not_ primitive functions, positional matching is done
there as well. Sometimes. At least when 'x' argument is not first, as shown in
Bill's examples. Obviously my "test" was insufficient...
Cheers,
Henrik
From: William Dunlap
Sent: Wednesday, November 28, 2018 9:10 PM
To: Henrik Pärn
Cc: r-devel@r-project.org
Subject: Re: [Rd] named arguments discouraged in `[.data.frame` and
`[<-.data.frame`
They can get bitten in the last two lines of this example, where the 'x'
argument is not first:
> d <- data.frame(C1=c(r1=11,r2=21,r3=31), C2=c(12,22,32))
> d[1,1:2]
C1 C2
r1 11 12
> `[`(d,j=1:2,i=1)
C1 C2
r1 11 12
Warning message:
In `[.data.frame`(d, j = 1:2, i = 1) :
named arguments other than 'drop' are discouraged
> `[`(j=1:2,d,i=1)
Error in (1:2)[d, i = 1] : incorrect number of dimensions
> do.call("[", list(j=1:2, i=1, x=d))
Error in 1:2[i = 1, x = list(C1 = c(11, 21, 31), C2 = c(12, 22, 32))] :
incorrect number of dimensions
Bill Dunlap
TIBCO Software
wdunlap http://tibco.com
On Wed, Nov 28, 2018 at 11:30 AM Henrik Pärn <mailto:henrik.p...@ntnu.no> wrote:
tl;dr:
Why are named arguments discouraged in `[.data.frame`, `[<-.data.frame` and
`[[.data.frame`?
(because this question is of the kind 'why is R designed like this?', I though
R-devel would be more appropriate than R-help)
#
Background:
Now and then students presents there fancy functions like this:
myfancyfun(d,12,0.3,0.2,500,1000,FALSE,TRUE,FALSE,TRUE,FALSE)
Incomprehensible. Thus, I encourage them to use spaces and name arguments, _at
least_ when trying to communicate their code with others. Something like:
myfancyfun(data = d, n = 12, gamma = 0.3, prob = 0.2,
size = 500, niter = 1000, model = FALSE,
scale = TRUE, drop = FALSE, plot = TRUE, save = FALSE)
Then some overzealous students started to use named arguments everywhere.
E-v-e-r-y-w-h-e-r-e. Even in the most basic situation when indexing vectors (as
a subtle protest?), like:
vec <- 1:9
vec[i = 4]
`[`(x = vec, i = 4)
vec[[i = 4]]
`[[`(x = vec, i = 4)
vec[i = 4] <- 10
`[<-`(x = vec, i = 4, value = 10)
...or when indexing matrices:
m <- matrix(vec, ncol = 3)
m[i = 2, j = 2]
`[`(x = m, i = 2, j = 2)
# 5
m[i = 2, j = 2] <- 0
`[<-`(x = m, i = 2, j = 2, value = 0)
##
This practice indeed feels like overkill, but it didn't seem to hurt either.
Until they used it on data frames. Then suddenly warnings appeared that named
arguments are discouraged:
d <- data.frame(m)
d[[i = "X2"]]
# [1] 4 5 6
# Warning message:
# In `[[.data.frame`(d, i = "X2") :
# named arguments other than 'exact' are discouraged
d[i = 2, j = 2]
# [1] 0
# Warning message:
# In `[.data.frame`(d, i = 2, j = 2) :
# named arguments other than 'drop' are discouraged
d[i = 2, j = 2] <- 5
# Warning message:
# In `[<-.data.frame`(`*tmp*`, i = 2, j = 2, value = 5) :
# named arguments are discouraged
##
Of course I could tell them "don't do it, it's overkill and not common
practice" or "it's just a warning, don't worry". However, I assume the warnings
are there for a good reason.
So how do I explain to the students that named arguments are actively
discouraged in `[.data.frame` and `[<-.data.frame`, but not in `[` and `[<-`?
When will they get bitten?
__
mailto:R-devel@r-project.org mailing list
https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/r-devel
__
R-devel@r-project.org mailing list
https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/r-devel
Re: [Rd] named arguments discouraged in `[.data.frame` and `[<-.data.frame`
They can get bitten in the last two lines of this example, where the 'x'
argument is not first:
> d <- data.frame(C1=c(r1=11,r2=21,r3=31), C2=c(12,22,32))
> d[1,1:2]
C1 C2
r1 11 12
> `[`(d,j=1:2,i=1)
C1 C2
r1 11 12
Warning message:
In `[.data.frame`(d, j = 1:2, i = 1) :
named arguments other than 'drop' are discouraged
> `[`(j=1:2,d,i=1)
Error in (1:2)[d, i = 1] : incorrect number of dimensions
> do.call("[", list(j=1:2, i=1, x=d))
Error in 1:2[i = 1, x = list(C1 = c(11, 21, 31), C2 = c(12, 22, 32))] :
incorrect number of dimensions
Bill Dunlap
TIBCO Software
wdunlap tibco.com
On Wed, Nov 28, 2018 at 11:30 AM Henrik Pärn wrote:
> tl;dr:
>
> Why are named arguments discouraged in `[.data.frame`, `[<-.data.frame`
> and `[[.data.frame`?
>
> (because this question is of the kind 'why is R designed like this?', I
> though R-devel would be more appropriate than R-help)
>
> #
>
> Background:
>
> Now and then students presents there fancy functions like this:
>
> myfancyfun(d,12,0.3,0.2,500,1000,FALSE,TRUE,FALSE,TRUE,FALSE)
>
> Incomprehensible. Thus, I encourage them to use spaces and name arguments,
> _at least_ when trying to communicate their code with others. Something
> like:
>
> myfancyfun(data = d, n = 12, gamma = 0.3, prob = 0.2,
> size = 500, niter = 1000, model = FALSE,
> scale = TRUE, drop = FALSE, plot = TRUE, save = FALSE)
>
>
> Then some overzealous students started to use named arguments everywhere.
> E-v-e-r-y-w-h-e-r-e. Even in the most basic situation when indexing vectors
> (as a subtle protest?), like:
>
> vec <- 1:9
>
> vec[i = 4]
> `[`(x = vec, i = 4)
>
> vec[[i = 4]]
> `[[`(x = vec, i = 4)
>
> vec[i = 4] <- 10
> `[<-`(x = vec, i = 4, value = 10)
>
> ...or when indexing matrices:
>
> m <- matrix(vec, ncol = 3)
> m[i = 2, j = 2]
> `[`(x = m, i = 2, j = 2)
> # 5
>
> m[i = 2, j = 2] <- 0
> `[<-`(x = m, i = 2, j = 2, value = 0)
>
> ##
>
> This practice indeed feels like overkill, but it didn't seem to hurt
> either. Until they used it on data frames. Then suddenly warnings appeared
> that named arguments are discouraged:
>
> d <- data.frame(m)
>
> d[[i = "X2"]]
> # [1] 4 5 6
> # Warning message:
> # In `[[.data.frame`(d, i = "X2") :
> # named arguments other than 'exact' are discouraged
>
> d[i = 2, j = 2]
> # [1] 0
> # Warning message:
> # In `[.data.frame`(d, i = 2, j = 2) :
> # named arguments other than 'drop' are discouraged
>
> d[i = 2, j = 2] <- 5
> # Warning message:
> # In `[<-.data.frame`(`*tmp*`, i = 2, j = 2, value = 5) :
> # named arguments are discouraged
>
>
> ##
>
> Of course I could tell them "don't do it, it's overkill and not common
> practice" or "it's just a warning, don't worry". However, I assume the
> warnings are there for a good reason.
>
> So how do I explain to the students that named arguments are actively
> discouraged in `[.data.frame` and `[<-.data.frame`, but not in `[` and
> `[<-`? When will they get bitten?
>
> __
> R-devel@r-project.org mailing list
> https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/r-devel
>
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Re: [Rd] named arguments discouraged in `[.data.frame` and `[<-.data.frame`
Whenever they are calling a primitive, because primitives match arguments positionally. Of course, you then you need to introduce the concept of a primitive. You could also make an argument from the code clarity perspective, as typically primitives have simple interfaces and/or are used frequently enough that naming arguments just introduces clutter. That probably requires experience though. Michael On Wed, Nov 28, 2018 at 11:30 AM Henrik Pärn wrote: > > tl;dr: > > Why are named arguments discouraged in `[.data.frame`, `[<-.data.frame` and > `[[.data.frame`? > > (because this question is of the kind 'why is R designed like this?', I > though R-devel would be more appropriate than R-help) > > # > > Background: > > Now and then students presents there fancy functions like this: > > myfancyfun(d,12,0.3,0.2,500,1000,FALSE,TRUE,FALSE,TRUE,FALSE) > > Incomprehensible. Thus, I encourage them to use spaces and name arguments, > _at least_ when trying to communicate their code with others. Something like: > > myfancyfun(data = d, n = 12, gamma = 0.3, prob = 0.2, > size = 500, niter = 1000, model = FALSE, > scale = TRUE, drop = FALSE, plot = TRUE, save = FALSE) > > > Then some overzealous students started to use named arguments everywhere. > E-v-e-r-y-w-h-e-r-e. Even in the most basic situation when indexing vectors > (as a subtle protest?), like: > > vec <- 1:9 > > vec[i = 4] > `[`(x = vec, i = 4) > > vec[[i = 4]] > `[[`(x = vec, i = 4) > > vec[i = 4] <- 10 > `[<-`(x = vec, i = 4, value = 10) > > ...or when indexing matrices: > > m <- matrix(vec, ncol = 3) > m[i = 2, j = 2] > `[`(x = m, i = 2, j = 2) > # 5 > > m[i = 2, j = 2] <- 0 > `[<-`(x = m, i = 2, j = 2, value = 0) > > ## > > This practice indeed feels like overkill, but it didn't seem to hurt either. > Until they used it on data frames. Then suddenly warnings appeared that named > arguments are discouraged: > > d <- data.frame(m) > > d[[i = "X2"]] > # [1] 4 5 6 > # Warning message: > # In `[[.data.frame`(d, i = "X2") : > # named arguments other than 'exact' are discouraged > > d[i = 2, j = 2] > # [1] 0 > # Warning message: > # In `[.data.frame`(d, i = 2, j = 2) : > # named arguments other than 'drop' are discouraged > > d[i = 2, j = 2] <- 5 > # Warning message: > # In `[<-.data.frame`(`*tmp*`, i = 2, j = 2, value = 5) : > # named arguments are discouraged > > > ## > > Of course I could tell them "don't do it, it's overkill and not common > practice" or "it's just a warning, don't worry". However, I assume the > warnings are there for a good reason. > > So how do I explain to the students that named arguments are actively > discouraged in `[.data.frame` and `[<-.data.frame`, but not in `[` and `[<-`? > When will they get bitten? > > __ > R-devel@r-project.org mailing list > https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/r-devel __ R-devel@r-project.org mailing list https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/r-devel
[Rd] named arguments discouraged in `[.data.frame` and `[<-.data.frame`
tl;dr: Why are named arguments discouraged in `[.data.frame`, `[<-.data.frame` and `[[.data.frame`? (because this question is of the kind 'why is R designed like this?', I though R-devel would be more appropriate than R-help) # Background: Now and then students presents there fancy functions like this: myfancyfun(d,12,0.3,0.2,500,1000,FALSE,TRUE,FALSE,TRUE,FALSE) Incomprehensible. Thus, I encourage them to use spaces and name arguments, _at least_ when trying to communicate their code with others. Something like: myfancyfun(data = d, n = 12, gamma = 0.3, prob = 0.2, size = 500, niter = 1000, model = FALSE, scale = TRUE, drop = FALSE, plot = TRUE, save = FALSE) Then some overzealous students started to use named arguments everywhere. E-v-e-r-y-w-h-e-r-e. Even in the most basic situation when indexing vectors (as a subtle protest?), like: vec <- 1:9 vec[i = 4] `[`(x = vec, i = 4) vec[[i = 4]] `[[`(x = vec, i = 4) vec[i = 4] <- 10 `[<-`(x = vec, i = 4, value = 10) ...or when indexing matrices: m <- matrix(vec, ncol = 3) m[i = 2, j = 2] `[`(x = m, i = 2, j = 2) # 5 m[i = 2, j = 2] <- 0 `[<-`(x = m, i = 2, j = 2, value = 0) ## This practice indeed feels like overkill, but it didn't seem to hurt either. Until they used it on data frames. Then suddenly warnings appeared that named arguments are discouraged: d <- data.frame(m) d[[i = "X2"]] # [1] 4 5 6 # Warning message: # In `[[.data.frame`(d, i = "X2") : # named arguments other than 'exact' are discouraged d[i = 2, j = 2] # [1] 0 # Warning message: # In `[.data.frame`(d, i = 2, j = 2) : # named arguments other than 'drop' are discouraged d[i = 2, j = 2] <- 5 # Warning message: # In `[<-.data.frame`(`*tmp*`, i = 2, j = 2, value = 5) : # named arguments are discouraged ## Of course I could tell them "don't do it, it's overkill and not common practice" or "it's just a warning, don't worry". However, I assume the warnings are there for a good reason. So how do I explain to the students that named arguments are actively discouraged in `[.data.frame` and `[<-.data.frame`, but not in `[` and `[<-`? When will they get bitten? __ R-devel@r-project.org mailing list https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/r-devel
