[R] statistical tests under serial dependence
Dear Rosa, please be more specific. Statistical tests for which hypothesis? For example, some tests can be made robust using Heteroskedasticity- *and Autocorrelation-* Consistent (HAC) covariance matrices in package 'sandwich': see - waldtest{lmtest} for a redundant variables test much like anova(). - linear.hypothesis{car} for general linear hypothesis testing in linear regression models. Besides, I'm very ignorant about VIF but I remember there being an article in R-News some years ago, see http://cran.r-project.org/doc/Rnews/Rnews_2003-1.pdf. I hope it helps. Giovanni ## original message was: ## -- Message: 21 Date: Sat, 08 Sep 2007 19:25:07 +0100 From: Rosa Trancoso [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [R] statistical tests under serial dependence To: r-help@stat.math.ethz.ch Message-ID: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Hello! I would like to know if there are already programmed statistical tests for data under serial dependence, for example, considering the variance inflation factor? Thank you very much Best regards Rosa Giovanni Millo Research Dept., Assicurazioni Generali SpA Via Machiavelli 4, 34131 Trieste (Italy) tel. +39 040 671184 fax +39 040 671160 Ai sensi del D.Lgs. 196/2003 si precisa che le informazioni ...{{dropped}} __ R-help@stat.math.ethz.ch mailing list https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/r-help PLEASE do read the posting guide http://www.R-project.org/posting-guide.html and provide commented, minimal, self-contained, reproducible code.
[R] lme with corAR1 errors - can't find AR coefficient in output
Dear List, I am using the output of a ML estimation on a random effects model with first-order autocorrelation to make a further conditional test. My model is much like this (which reproduces the method on the famous Grunfeld data, for the econometricians out there it is Table 5.2 in Baltagi): library(Ecdat) library(nlme) data(Grunfeld) mymod-lme(inv~value+capital,data=Grunfeld,random=~1|firm,correlation=co rAR1(0,~year|firm)) Embarrassing as it may be, I can find the autoregressive parameter ('Phi', if I get it right) in the printout of summary(mymod) but I am utterly unable to locate the corresponding element in the lme or summary.lme objects. Any help appreciated. This must be something stupid I'm overlooking, either in str(mymod) or in the help files, but it's a huge problem for me. Thanks Giovanni Giovanni Millo Research Dept., Assicurazioni Generali SpA Via Machiavelli 4, 34131 Trieste (Italy) tel. +39 040 671184 fax +39 040 671160 Ai sensi del D.Lgs. 196/2003 si precisa che le informazioni ...{{dropped}} __ R-help@stat.math.ethz.ch mailing list https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/r-help PLEASE do read the posting guide http://www.R-project.org/posting-guide.html and provide commented, minimal, self-contained, reproducible code.
Re: [R] Modified Sims test
Dear Chris, I do not have the references here, but AFAIR: if x and y are two time series, we say that x does not Granger-cause y (x ngc y) if the models (1) y~y(-1)+y(-2)+...+x(-1)+x(-2)+... and (2) y~y(-1)+y(-2)+... are equivalent, i.e. if past values of x do not help explaining y. The Granger test is thus the exclusion test for the lagged x in (1) (see ?grangertest). The Sims test, which is equivalent to the Granger test under certain circumstances, substitutes (1) with (3) y~x(-1)+x(-2)+...+x(+1)+x(+2)+... We could well consider including this in lmtest one day: I'll speak to the maintainer. For now, as the current grangertest.default() method is based on waldtest() and lag(), which last works symmetrically, a quick hack is straightforward. I am including it for your convenience, but without any guarantee (my quick hacks don't usually work properly in the first place). I suggest you check the results by building up the two test models by hand and comparing them through waldtest{lmtest}. HTH Giovanni ** Original message ** Message: 8 Date: Mon, 9 Apr 2007 08:25:23 -0400 From: Chris Elsaesser [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [R] Modified Sims test To: r-help@stat.math.ethz.ch Message-ID: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Does anyone know of a package that includes the Modified Sims test [Gewerke, 1983, Sims, 1972]? This test is used in econometrics and is a kind of alternative to the Granger test [Granger, 1969], which is in the package lmtest. Thanks in advance, chris Refernces: Gewerke, J., R. Meese, and W. Dent (1983), Comparing Alternative Tests of Causality in Temporal Systems: Analytic Results and Experimental Evidence. Journal of Econometrics, 83, 161-194. Granger, C.W.J. (1969), Investigating Causal Relations by Econometric Methods and Cross-Spectral Methods, Econometrica, 34, 424-438. Sims, C. (1972), Money, Income and Causality, American Economic Review, 62, 540-552. Chris Elsaesser, PhD703.637.9421 (o) Principal Geospatial Scientist 703.371.7301 (m) SPADAC Inc. 7921 Jones Branch Dr. Suite 600 McLean, VA 22102 -- Giovanni Millo Research Dept., Assicurazioni Generali SpA Via Machiavelli 4, 34131 Trieste (Italy) tel. +39 040 671184 fax +39 040 671160 Ai sensi del D.Lgs. 196/2003 si precisa che le informazioni contenute in questo messaggio sono riservate ed a uso esclusivo del destinatario. Qualora il messaggio in parola Le fosse pervenuto per errore, La invitiamo ad eliminarlo senza copiarlo e a non inoltrarlo a terzi, dandocene gentilmente comunicazione. Grazie. Pursuant to Legislative Decree No. 196/2003, you are hereby informed that this message contains confidential information intended only for the use of the addressee. If you are not the addressee, and have received this message by mistake, please delete it and immediately notify us. You may not copy or disseminate this message to anyone. Thank you. __ R-help@stat.math.ethz.ch mailing list https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/r-help PLEASE do read the posting guide http://www.R-project.org/posting-guide.html and provide commented, minimal, self-contained, reproducible code.
[R] Problems with obtaining t-tests of regression
Guillermo, I am dropping most of your mail because my answer is very generic. First, why doesn't it work as you tried it: technically speaking, coeftest() and the like expect to be feed an lm or a glm object and for this reason won't accept the result of systemfit(), which is a much different object. I suppose the same goes for the rest. Second, what can you do: I'd do at least one step by hand. a) as you have only one structural equation, maybe the easiest is to get an lm object equivalent to the 2sls model you need, then apply coeftest() and the like to this object. The two-step procedure outlined in any textbook (e.g. Wooldridge, Econometrics of cross section and panel data, MIT 2002, page 91) *should* produce a suitable object. Please note: I cannot guarantee, though, that SEs are still appropriate: see Wooldridge, bottom of page 91. b) it could be safer to explicitly compute HC SEs by formula 5.34 in Wooldridge, based on the 2sls residuals you got from systemfit(). c??) Maybe there's a shorter way: I suspect that the following could work: - regress Sc on the rest, get Sc_hat - estimate step2model-lm(lnP~Ag+Ag2+Var+R+D+Sc_hat) and now I think coeftest(step2model,vcov=vcovHC) should compute exactly formula (5.34) in Wooldridge, but *please check this out*, as it is only an intuition!! Best, Giovanni -- Message: 3 Date: Tue, 20 Feb 2007 14:00:56 +0100 From: Guillermo Juli?n San Mart?n [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [R] Problems with obtaining t-tests of regression coefficientsapplying consistent standard errors after run 2SLS estimation. Clearer ! To: r-help@stat.math.ethz.ch Message-ID: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Content-Type: text/plain First I have to say I am sorry because I have not been so clear in my previous e-mails. I will try to explain clearer what it is my problem. I have the following model: lnP=Sc+Ag+Ag2+Var+R+D In this model the variable Sc is endogenous and the rest are all objective exogenous variables. I verified that Sc is endogenous through a standard Hausman test. To determine this I defined before a new instrumental variable, I2. Also I detected through a Breusch Pagan Test a problem of heteroskedasticity. With the intention to avoid the problem of the endogenous variable and the heteroskedasticity I want to apply first the technique 2SLS and then based in these results I want to obtain the t-tests of the coefficients applying Heteroskedasticity Consistent Standard Errors (HCSE) or Huber-White errors. Like I showed above I have just one structural equation in the model. In this situation, to apply 2SLS in R until I know there two possible ways: First to use the function tsls() from package sem, or second, to use the function systemfit() from package systemfit. I thought that systemfit was for situations when there are more than one structural equation in the model. Anyway I probed with the two ways and I obtained similar results. Below, I show the program lines: (dropped) Ai sensi del D.Lgs. 196/2003 si precisa che le informazioni ...{{dropped}} __ R-help@stat.math.ethz.ch mailing list https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/r-help PLEASE do read the posting guide http://www.R-project.org/posting-guide.html and provide commented, minimal, self-contained, reproducible code.
[R] simple parallel computing on single multicore machine
Dear List, the advent of multicore machines in the consumer segment makes me wonder whether it would, at least in principle, be possible to divide a computational task into more slave R processes running on the different cores of the same processor, more or less in the way package SNOW would do on a cluster. I am thinking of simple 'embarassingly parallel' problems, just like inverting 1000 matrices, estimating 1000 models or the like. I have seen some talk here on making R multi-threaded and the like, but this is much simpler. I am just a curious useR, so don't bother if you don't have time, but maybe you can point me at some resource, or just say this is nonsense... Cheers Giovanni Giovanni Millo Research Dept., Assicurazioni Generali SpA Via Machiavelli 4, 34131 Trieste (Italy) tel. +39 040 671184 fax +39 040 671160 Ai sensi del D.Lgs. 196/2003 si precisa che le informazioni ...{{dropped}} __ R-help@stat.math.ethz.ch mailing list https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/r-help PLEASE do read the posting guide http://www.R-project.org/posting-guide.html and provide commented, minimal, self-contained, reproducible code.
Re: [R] Obtaining the adjusted r-square given the regression coefficients
Alexandra, some additional remarks taken from my past struggles with R2 :^) Without intercept the definition is indeed problematic, as Bernhard notes. First, to estimate a model omitting the intercept you simply have to specify -1 in the model formula (example on an in-built dataset, for data description see help(mtcars)): data(mtcars) attach(mtcars) mod-lm(mpg~hp+wt+qsec) # with intercept summary(mod) and mod0-lm(mpg~hp+wt+qsec-1) # without summary(mod0) The reported R2s are different not only in value (which is obvious) but also in the definition. In fact, there are 2 definitions of R2. With reference to the usual analysis of variance in OLS regression (see e.g. Ch.3 in Greene 2003, Econometric Analysis, and 3.5.2. in particular), let, in our example, SST-sum(mpg^2) # total sum of squares SSR-sum(fitted(mod)^2) # regression sum of squares SSE-sum(resid(mod)^2) # error sum of squares where (a) SST=SSR+SSE, as you may readily check, then the *uncentered* R2 is defined as uR2-SSR/SST while the *centered* R2 as cSST-sum((mpg-mean(mpg))^2) cSSR-sum((fitted(mod)-mean(mpg))^2) # as 1) mean(y)=mean(y_hat) cSSE-sum(resid(mod)^2) # as 2) mean(e)=0 cR2-cSSR/cSST and (b) cSST=cSSR+cSSE. The problem is that the meaning of R2 derives from decompositions (a) and (b), but while (a) always holds for OLS models, (b) only holds for models with an intercept (as do (1-2) above, on which it is based). Thus *centered R2 is meaningless in models without intercept*. People are used to cR2, though, so R reports cR2 for models with intercept, uR2 for those without (EViews, e.g., reports cR2 for both). Adjusted R2s are the same, adjusted by a factor penalizing for df. See Greene, who gives adjR2 = 1-(n-1)/(n-K)(1-R2) for n obs. and K regressors. Finally, it is of course feasible to calculate the model coefficients on your own, but it would be inefficient (R has an optimized routine for OLS, so you'd better use coef(lm(y~X))). Anyway, if you like, y-mpg # just for notational simplicity.. X-cbind(hp,wt,qsec) # add rep(1,length(hp)) to this data matrix # if you want an intercept b-solve(crossprod(X),crossprod(X,y)) # the coefficients for mod0 y_hat-X%*%b # fitted values for y e-y-y_hat# model residuals from which you can obtain anything you need. Cheers Giovanni Giovanni Millo Ufficio Studi Assicurazioni Generali SpA Via Machiavelli 4, 34131 Trieste (I) tel. +39 040 671184 fax +39 040 671160 * Original message: Date: Wed, 11 Jan 2006 09:16:46 - From: Pfaff, Bernhard Dr. [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [R] Obtaining the adjusted r-square given the regression coefficients To: 'Alexandra R. M. de Almeida' [EMAIL PROTECTED], r-help@stat.math.ethz.ch Message-ID: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Hello Alexandra, R2 is only defined for regressions with intercept. See a decent econometrics textbook for its derivation. HTH, Bernhard -Urspr?ngliche Nachricht- Von: Alexandra R. M. de Almeida [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Gesendet: Mittwoch, 11. Januar 2006 03:48 An: r-help@stat.math.ethz.ch Betreff: [R] Obtaining the adjusted r-square given the regression coefficients Dear list I want to obtain the adjusted r-square given a set of coefficients (without the intercept), and I don't know if there is a function that does it. Exist I know that if you make a linear regression, you enter the dataset and have in summary the adjusted r-square. But this is calculated using the coefficients that R obtained,and I want other coefficients that i calculated separately and differently (without the intercept term too). I have made a function based in the equations of the book Linear Regression Analisys (Wiley Series in probability and mathematical statistics), but it doesn't return values between 0 and 1. What is wrong The functions is given by: adjustedR2-function(Y,X,saM) { if(is.matrix(Y)==F) (Y-as.matrix(Y)) if(is.matrix(X)==F) (X-as.matrix(X)) if(is.matrix(saM)==F) (saM-as.matrix(saM)) RX-rent.matrix(X,1)$Rentabilidade.tipo RY-rent.matrix(Y,1)$Rentabilidade.tipo r2m-matrix(0,nrow=ncol(Y),ncol=1) RSS-matrix(0,ncol=ncol(Y),nrow=1) SYY-matrix(0,ncol=ncol(Y),nrow=1) for (i in 1:ncol(RY)) { RSS[,i]-(t(RY[,i])%*%RY[,i])-(saM[i,]%*%(t(RX)%*%RX)%*%t(saM)[,i]) SYY[,i]-sum((RY[,i]-mean(RY[,i]))^2) r2m[i,]-1-(RSS[,i]/SYY[,i])*((nrow(RY))/(nrow(RY)-ncol(saM)-1)) } dimnames(r2m)-list(colnames(Y),c(Adjusted R-square)) return(r2m) } Thanks! Alexandra Alexandra R. Mendes de Almeida - Ai sensi del D.Lgs. 196/2003 si precisa che le informazioni ...{{dropped}} __ R-help@stat.math.ethz.ch mailing list
[R] Model frame manipulation
Dear all, I am implementing a redundant variables F-test. For that I need to compute 2 models, restricted and unrestricted, then extracting the residuals to calculate the test statistic. I borrowed this elegant solution from the LMtest package to rebuild the first of the matrices involved (the unrestricted one) on the basis of model spec. and data red.var.test-function(formula, red.vars, data = list()) { mf - model.frame(formula, data = data) y - model.response(mf) modelterms - terms(formula, data = data) X - model.matrix(modelterms, data = data) # unrestricted model matrix n - nrow(X) k - ncol(X) ...but then I had to resort to this solution of mine to select the restricted m.m. according to the possibly redundant regressors specified in the character vector red.vars Z-X[,!(dimnames(X)[[2]]%in%red.vars)] # restricted model matrix and then the rest... q-dim(X)[[2]]-dim(Z)[[2]] umod-lm(y~X) rmod-lm(y~Z) ures-umod$resid rres-rmod$resid URSS-sum(ures^2) RRSS-sum(rres^2) test - ((RRSS - URSS)/q) / (URSS / (n-k)) (...) } Now to my question: the above works just fine when the names in red.vars are *exactly* those of regressors in the model frame, e.g. if I am taking logs of one variable, say, a, in model mod-lm(d ~ log(a) + b + c), testing joint redundancy of a and b I have to write red.var.test(mod, c(log(a),b)) Is there a generic way to restrict the model matrix, so as to write only the names of regressors involved without having to bother about the transformations, such as red.var.test(mod, c(a,b)) maybe in the style of the first rows? Thank you in advance for your insights Giovanni Giovanni Millo RD Dept. Assicurazioni Generali SpA Trieste, Italy Ai sensi del D.Lgs. 196/2003 si precisa che le informazioni contenute in questo messaggio sono riservate ed a uso esclusivo del destinatario. Qualora il messaggio in parola Le fosse pervenuto per errore, La invitiamo ad eliminarlo senza copiarlo e a non inoltrarlo a terzi, dandocene gentilmente comunicazione. Grazie.BRBRPursuant to Legislative Decree No. 196/2003, you are hereby informed that this message contains confidential information intended only for the use of the addressee. If you are not the addressee, and have received this message by mistake, please delete it and immediately notify us. You may not copy or disseminate this message to anyone. Thank you. [[alternative HTML version deleted]] __ [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list https://www.stat.math.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/r-help PLEASE do read the posting guide! http://www.R-project.org/posting-guide.html
[R] LM omitted variables test
Dear all, Does anybody know whether the (general) Lagrange Multiplier testing framework for restrictions on linear models has been implemented in some package? My goal is to test for omitted variables, i.e. restrictions of the kind beta_i=0, in the specification of an econometric model. There are some particular implementations in this fashion in the lmtest package (e,g, the bgtest() function, where the lagged residuals are taken as the omitted variable); before trying to adapt that code, I would like to check out if there are ready-to-use solutions available. Thanks in advance Giovanni Giovanni Millo Research Dept. Assicurazioni Generali SpA Ai sensi del D.Lgs.196/2003 si precisa che le informazioni contenute in questo messaggio sono riservate ed a uso esclusivo del destinatario. Qualora il messaggio in parola Le fosse pervenuto per errore, La invitiamo ad eliminarlo senza copiarlo e a non inoltrarlo a terzi, dandocene gentilmente comunicazione. Grazie.BRBRPursuant to Legislative Decree No. 196/2003, you are hereby informed that this message contains confidential information intended only for the use of the addressee. If you are not the addressee, and have received this message by mistake, please delete it and immediately notify us. You may not copy or disseminate this message to anyone. Thank you. [[alternative HTML version deleted]] __ [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list https://www.stat.math.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/r-help PLEASE do read the posting guide! http://www.R-project.org/posting-guide.html
[R] Data for use in maps()
Dear all, I am interested in plotting maps visualizing spatial statistics in an aggregated fashion, according to administrative boundaries. More specifically, I have fitted a cross-section model on data regarding Italian counties (province, for Italian readers) and I would like to visualize residual behavior on a map, in order to have a first assessment of their spatial autocorrelation. I would also make some EDA on the spatial patterns (if any) of the regressors. I have found the maps package (and related) and would be able to do what I want, e.g., for the USA, essentially by map(state,fill=T,col=color) where color is dependent on the statistic of interest, but I still lack a data file for counties' boundaries in Italy. Does anybody know where to find one? Is there any convenient tool for converting from other formats? I would like to do everything in R if possible. Thanks in advance Giovanni Millo RD Dept. Assicurazioni Generali SpA Trieste, Italy Ai sensi del D.Lgs.196/2003 si precisa che le informazioni contenute in questo messaggio sono riservate ed a uso esclusivo del destinatario. Qualora il messaggio in parola Le fosse pervenuto per errore, La invitiamo ad eliminarlo senza copiarlo e a non inoltrarlo a terzi, dandocene gentilmente comunicazione. Grazie.BRBRPursuant to Legislative Decree No. 196/2003, you are hereby informed that this message contains confidential information intended only for the use of the addressee. If you are not the addressee, and have received this message by mistake, please delete it and immediately notify us. You may not copy or disseminate this message to anyone. Thank you. [[alternative HTML version deleted]] __ [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list https://www.stat.math.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/r-help PLEASE do read the posting guide! http://www.R-project.org/posting-guide.html
[R] Re: presentation of software
Dear Jason, see this on page 20 (article by Simon Jackman) http://web.polmeth.ufl.edu/tpm/TPM11N2.pdf I bet it will help you in organizing your talk (I have done something similar recently). Cheers Giovanni Giovanni Millo Research Dept. Assicurazioni Generali SpA +39 040 671184 Original message: Date: Tue, 28 Oct 2003 11:01:05 -0500 From: Owen, Jason [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [R] presentation of software To: '[EMAIL PROTECTED]' [EMAIL PROTECTED] Message-ID: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Content-Type: text/plain Hello, I am considering giving a talk at my university on R to (mostly) academics. There wouldn't be any statisticians, but professors from mathematics, psychology, economics, etc. who do use some statistical software in teaching and/or research, and have an acquaintance with procedures and graphics used in statistics. Has anyone given such a talk to a similar audience? If so, I would be interested in seeing what you talked about. Please send me your talk, outline, or whatever materials you have. I want to design an R is the way -type talk. Jason Ai sensi della Legge 675/96 si precisa che le informazioni contenute in questo messaggio sono riservate ed a uso esclusivo del destinatario. Qualora il messaggio in parola Le fosse pervenuto per errore, la preghiamo di eliminarlo senza copiarlo e di non inoltrarlo a terzi, dandocene gentilmente comunicazione. Grazie.BRBRThis message, for the law 675/96, may contain confidential and/or privileged information. If you are not the addressee or authorized to receive this for the addressee, you must not use, copy, disclose or take any action based on this message or any information herein. If you have received this message in error, please advise the sender immediately by reply e-mail and delete this message. Thank you for your cooperation. [[alternative HTML version deleted]] __ [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list https://www.stat.math.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/r-help
[R] estimating probit models
Dear all, I am looking for a convenient way to model a binary choice variable in R. Would you suggest glm() with family=binomial(link=probit))? Is there something more focused on that kind of analysis? Or am I plainly wrong? Cheers and thanx for your answers Giovanni Giovanni Millo RD Dept. Assicurazioni Generali SpA Ai sensi della Legge 675/96 si precisa che le informazioni contenute in questo messaggio sono riservate ed a uso esclusivo del destinatario. Qualora il messaggio in parola Le fosse pervenuto per errore, la preghiamo di eliminarlo senza copiarlo e di non inoltrarlo a terzi, dandocene gentilmente comunicazione. Grazie.BRBRThis message, for the law 675/96, may contain confidential and/or privileged information. If you are not the addressee or authorized to receive this for the addressee, you must not use, copy, disclose or take any action based on this message or any information herein. If you have received this message in error, please advise the sender immediately by reply e-mail and delete this message. Thank you for your cooperation. [[alternative HTML version deleted]] __ [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list https://www.stat.math.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/r-help
[R] loops in Sweave
Dear all, I was wondering whether there is a way to make loops in Sweave, i.e. for example to: 1) calculate a parameter, say, a=length(b) 2) according to that, add #a# chapters to the document, each including some repetitive analysis, each time done on a particular subset of the data indexed by the elements of 1:a. This would be of great help for repeating exploratory data analyses on, say, questionaries when the number of questions changes without having to change the Sweave .snw file. Many thanx for your answers Giovanni Millo RD Dept. Assicurazioni Generali SpA Trieste, Italy Ai sensi della Legge 675/96 si precisa che le informazioni contenute in questo messaggio sono riservate ed a uso esclusivo del destinatario. Qualora il messaggio in parola Le fosse pervenuto per errore, la preghiamo di eliminarlo senza copiarlo e di non inoltrarlo a terzi, dandocene gentilmente comunicazione. Grazie.BRBRThis message, for the law 675/96, may contain confidential and/or privileged information. If you are not the addressee or authorized to receive this for the addressee, you must not use, copy, disclose or take any action based on this message or any information herein. If you have received this message in error, please advise the sender immediately by reply e-mail and delete this message. Thank you for your cooperation. [[alternative HTML version deleted]] __ [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list https://www.stat.math.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/r-help