Re: [R] Looking for an unequal variances equivalent of the KruskalWallis nonparametric one way ANOVA

2006-04-27 Thread mike waters
 Peter,

Thank you for your prompt response. The degrees of freedom for the 6
treatment means range from 33 to 48, so are relatively large. The Levene
test for homogeneity of variance is giving values of 13 to 14 for each of
the 5 subjective measures being analysed (i.e. highly significant for thos
d.o.f.), with skewness significant at p0.0001 and kurtosis generally around
p0.01 to p0.02. I have run Bonferroni adjusted pairwise comparisons of the
means, which give approximately the same levels of significance as for the
straightforward Welch comparisons.

Regards,

Mike

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Peter Dalgaard
Sent: 27 April 2006 16:39
To: Mike Waters
Cc: R-help@stat.math.ethz.ch
Subject: Re: [R] Looking for an unequal variances equivalent of the
KruskalWallis nonparametric one way ANOVA

Mike Waters [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

 Well fellow R users, I throw myself on your mercy. Help me, the 
 unworthy, satisfy my employer, the ungrateful. My feeble ramblings
follow...
 
 I've searched R-Help, the R Website and done a GOOGLE without success 
 for a one way ANOVA procedure to analyse data that are both non-normal 
 in nature and which exhibit unequal variances and unequal sample sizes 
 across the 4 treatment levels. My particular concern is to be able to 
 discrimintate between the 4 different treatments (as per the Tukey HSD in
happier times).
 
 To be precise, the data exhibit negative skew and platykurtosis and I 
 was unable to obtain a sensible transformation to normalise them 
 (obviously trying subtracting the value from range maximum plus one in
this process).
 Hence, the usual Welch variance-weighted one way ANOVA needs to be 
 replaced by a nonparametric alternative, Kruskal-Wallis being ruled 
 out for obvious reasons. I have read that, if the treatment with the 
 fewest sample numbers has the smallest variance (true here) the 
 parametric tests are conservative and safe to use, but I would like to do
this 'by the book'.

What are the sample sizes like? Which assumptions are you willing to make
_under the null hypothesis_?  

If it makes sense to compare means (even if nonnormal), then a Welch-type
procedure might suffice if the DF are large.

pairwise.wilcox.test() might also be a viable alternative, with a suitably
p-adjustment. This would make sense if you believe that the relevant null
for comparison between any two treatments is that they have identical
distributions. (With only four groups, I'd be inclined to use the Bonferroni
adjustment, since it is known to be conservative, but not badly so.)

-- 
   O__   Peter Dalgaard Øster Farimagsgade 5, Entr.B
  c/ /'_ --- Dept. of Biostatistics PO Box 2099, 1014 Cph. K
 (*) \(*) -- University of Copenhagen   Denmark  Ph:  (+45) 35327918
~~ - ([EMAIL PROTECTED])  FAX: (+45) 35327907

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Re: [R] Looking for an unequal variances equivalent of the KruskalWallis nonparametric one way ANOVA

2006-04-27 Thread Berton Gunter
Why not bootstrap or simulate (e.g. permutation test)? Sounds like exactly
the sort of situation for which it's designed.

-- Bert
 

 -Original Message-
 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
 [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Peter Dalgaard
 Sent: Thursday, April 27, 2006 8:39 AM
 To: Mike Waters
 Cc: R-help@stat.math.ethz.ch
 Subject: Re: [R] Looking for an unequal variances equivalent 
 of the KruskalWallis nonparametric one way ANOVA
 
 Mike Waters [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
 
  Well fellow R users, I throw myself on your mercy. Help me, 
 the unworthy,
  satisfy my employer, the ungrateful. My feeble ramblings follow...
  
  I've searched R-Help, the R Website and done a GOOGLE 
 without success for a
  one way ANOVA procedure to analyse data that are both 
 non-normal in nature
  and which exhibit unequal variances and unequal sample 
 sizes across the 4
  treatment levels. My particular concern is to be able to 
 discrimintate
  between the 4 different treatments (as per the Tukey HSD in 
 happier times).
  
  To be precise, the data exhibit negative skew and 
 platykurtosis and I was
  unable to obtain a sensible transformation to normalise 
 them (obviously
  trying subtracting the value from range maximum plus one in 
 this process).
  Hence, the usual Welch variance-weighted one way ANOVA 
 needs to be replaced
  by a nonparametric alternative, Kruskal-Wallis being ruled 
 out for obvious
  reasons. I have read that, if the treatment with the fewest 
 sample numbers
  has the smallest variance (true here) the parametric tests 
 are conservative
  and safe to use, but I would like to do this 'by the book'.
 
 What are the sample sizes like? Which assumptions are you willing to
 make _under the null hypothesis_?  
 
 If it makes sense to compare means (even if nonnormal), then a
 Welch-type procedure might suffice if the DF are large.
 
 pairwise.wilcox.test() might also be a viable alternative, with a
 suitably p-adjustment. This would make sense if you believe that the
 relevant null for comparison between any two treatments is that they
 have identical distributions. (With only four groups, I'd be inclined
 to use the Bonferroni adjustment, since it is known to be
 conservative, but not badly so.)
 
 -- 
O__   Peter Dalgaard Øster Farimagsgade 5, Entr.B
   c/ /'_ --- Dept. of Biostatistics PO Box 2099, 1014 Cph. K
  (*) \(*) -- University of Copenhagen   Denmark  Ph:  
 (+45) 35327918
 ~~ - ([EMAIL PROTECTED])  FAX: 
 (+45) 35327907
 
 __
 R-help@stat.math.ethz.ch mailing list
 https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/r-help
 PLEASE do read the posting guide! 
 http://www.R-project.org/posting-guide.html


__
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