Re: [racket-users] Programming language popularity (there's no accounting for taste!)

[Raoul Duke]

>> Maybe some Racketeers would scout Gambit, Chicken, Bigloo, Guile, etc.,
>> communities for any useful packages that Racket doesn't yet have, and

#lang Gambit

?
!

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Re: [racket-users] Programming language popularity (there's no accounting for taste!)

[Stephen De Gabrielle]

No need to stop at packages - whole languages. (I fancy doing Self when I
am a better programmer)

On Wed, 24 Feb 2016 at 21:23, Neil Van Dyke  wrote:

> Brian Adkins wrote on 02/24/2016 02:49 PM:
> > it appears to me that Racket is the strongest of the Scheme-ey lisps, so
> that's where I'm investing my time.
>
> After maintaining my open source packages on ~10 different
> R4/5RS+SRFI-ish Scheme implementations, I came to a similar conclusion:
> now I just develop in straight Racket, taking advantage of all the
> Racket libraries and tools.
>
> I do keep a few other Schemes in mind as diversity backups, in case I
> ever need the special properties of one for a particular project. So, in
> that way, I'm glad when the other Schemes have active user communities,
> even though would be also nice to have those people more involved in
> Racket.  And some of them kindly maintain ports of some of my Racket
> packages.
>
> Maybe some Racketeers would scout Gambit, Chicken, Bigloo, Guile, etc.,
> communities for any useful packages that Racket doesn't yet have, and
> talk with the package authors about whether they'd be interested in
> somehow also having those packages in Racket.  That might give Racket
> the benefit of more packages and engagement, while also maintaining a
> healthy diversity -- not everything Scheme needs be governed by the
> shadowy but benevolent Racket cabal.
>
> Neil V.
>
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Kind regards,
Stephen
--
Bigger than Scheme, cooler than Clojure & more fun than CL.(n=1)
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Re: [racket-users] Programming language popularity (there's no accounting for taste!)

[Neil Van Dyke]

Brian Adkins wrote on 02/24/2016 02:49 PM:

it appears to me that Racket is the strongest of the Scheme-ey lisps, so that's 
where I'm investing my time.


After maintaining my open source packages on ~10 different 
R4/5RS+SRFI-ish Scheme implementations, I came to a similar conclusion: 
now I just develop in straight Racket, taking advantage of all the 
Racket libraries and tools.


I do keep a few other Schemes in mind as diversity backups, in case I 
ever need the special properties of one for a particular project. So, in 
that way, I'm glad when the other Schemes have active user communities, 
even though would be also nice to have those people more involved in 
Racket.  And some of them kindly maintain ports of some of my Racket 
packages.


Maybe some Racketeers would scout Gambit, Chicken, Bigloo, Guile, etc., 
communities for any useful packages that Racket doesn't yet have, and 
talk with the package authors about whether they'd be interested in 
somehow also having those packages in Racket.  That might give Racket 
the benefit of more packages and engagement, while also maintaining a 
healthy diversity -- not everything Scheme needs be governed by the 
shadowy but benevolent Racket cabal.


Neil V.

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Re: [racket-users] Programming language popularity (there's no accounting for taste!)

[Robby Findler]

It's always tricky when the bags of juices and meat get involved. :)

I'm definitely planning to never stop throwing my weight into Racket.

Robby


On Wed, Feb 24, 2016 at 1:49 PM, Brian Adkins  wrote:
> On Wednesday, February 24, 2016 at 2:40:23 PM UTC-5, Robby Findler wrote:
>> Scheme is great. Racket isn't Scheme, although it draws a ton of
>> inspiration from the language and it's design. Viva Scheme! Viva
>> Racket!
>>
>> Robby
>
> I agree, but I have mixed emotions. The lisp community is better than most at 
> dividing and conquering itself. From an academic perspective, I can see how 
> there may be advantages to a proliferation of implementations experimenting 
> with varieties of solutions, but from an industry perspective, there appears 
> to be a lot of waste and reinvention of wheels.
>
> I do love the Scheme heritage in Racket, and I hope that the essence of 
> Scheme remains, but I would selfishly prefer that more developers would rally 
> behind Racket and focus on expanding the package ecosystem :)
>
> I'm still a relative newbie, but it appears to me that Racket is the 
> strongest of the Scheme-ey lisps, so that's where I'm investing my time.
>
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Re: [racket-users] Programming language popularity (there's no accounting for taste!)

[Brian Adkins]

On Wednesday, February 24, 2016 at 2:40:23 PM UTC-5, Robby Findler wrote:
> Scheme is great. Racket isn't Scheme, although it draws a ton of
> inspiration from the language and it's design. Viva Scheme! Viva
> Racket!
> 
> Robby

I agree, but I have mixed emotions. The lisp community is better than most at 
dividing and conquering itself. From an academic perspective, I can see how 
there may be advantages to a proliferation of implementations experimenting 
with varieties of solutions, but from an industry perspective, there appears to 
be a lot of waste and reinvention of wheels.

I do love the Scheme heritage in Racket, and I hope that the essence of Scheme 
remains, but I would selfishly prefer that more developers would rally behind 
Racket and focus on expanding the package ecosystem :)

I'm still a relative newbie, but it appears to me that Racket is the strongest 
of the Scheme-ey lisps, so that's where I'm investing my time.

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Re: [racket-users] Programming language popularity (there's no accounting for taste!)

[Robby Findler]

Scheme is great. Racket isn't Scheme, although it draws a ton of
inspiration from the language and it's design. Viva Scheme! Viva
Racket!

Robby


On Wed, Feb 24, 2016 at 1:04 PM, Martin DeMello  wrote:
> I don't know about scheme being racket; both chicken and gambit seem to have
> reasonably active communities.
>
> I was also surprised at the 16k hits for pony, which has essentially no
> ecosystem yet. but actually doing the google search it seems like there's
> tons of noise in there.
>
> martin
>
> On Wed, Feb 24, 2016 at 9:24 AM, Vincent St-Amour
>  wrote:
>>
>> If we add up the "Racket" and "Scheme" numbers (the latter being, I
>> suspect, mostly Racket), the total is pretty close to Ruby. I find that
>> amusing. :)
>>
>> Actually, I'm curious what the numbers look like if you count "PLT
>> Scheme" towards Racket.
>>
>> Vincent
>>
>>
>>
>> On Wed, 24 Feb 2016 11:06:51 -0600,
>> Brian Adkins wrote:
>> >
>> > I began compiling very crude statistics on programming language
>> > popularity back in 2009, and just kept doing it periodically. Initially I
>> > did it manually, but I finally got smart and wrote the following Racket
>> > program to scrape the results automatically:
>> >
>> > https://gist.github.com/lojic/83fff86aeea6af1c31ac
>> >
>> > The numbers should clearly be taken lightly, but there is *some*
>> > information to be had. Here is the latest post:
>> >
>> >
>> > http://blog.lojic.com/2016/02/24/programming-language-popularity-part-ten/
>> >
>> > I am fortunate in being able to choose whatever tool I feel is best, so
>> > popularity isn't that important to me. Having a critical mass of libraries
>> > is, but that's another matter.
>> >
>> > After a decade of C/C++, followed by a decade of Java, I came across
>> > Ruby, and it has been my primary development language for the last decade.
>> > Ruby was such an improvement over Java that it finally dawned on me to make
>> > a purposeful search to see if I might get an improvement over Ruby that it
>> > was over Java.
>> >
>> > Thus began a nine year search through Common Lisp, Haskell, Clojure,
>> > Standard ML, OCaml, Julia, Pony (barely), etc., and Racket has emerged as
>> > the clear winner for me personally. I'm already as productive in Racket as 
>> > I
>> > am in Ruby for a number of things, but I do have a fair amount of work to 
>> > do
>> > before I'm as productive in web development as I am with Rails. I'm hoping
>> > that 2016 will be the year of preparation to allow a complete switch.
>> >
>> > Brian
>> >
>> > --
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>> > Groups "Racket Users" group.
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>> > an email to racket-users+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
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>
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Re: [racket-users] Programming language popularity (there's no accounting for taste!)

[Martin DeMello]

I don't know about scheme being racket; both chicken and gambit seem to
have reasonably active communities.

I was also surprised at the 16k hits for pony, which has essentially no
ecosystem yet. but actually doing the google search it seems like there's
tons of noise in there.

martin

On Wed, Feb 24, 2016 at 9:24 AM, Vincent St-Amour <
stamo...@eecs.northwestern.edu> wrote:

> If we add up the "Racket" and "Scheme" numbers (the latter being, I
> suspect, mostly Racket), the total is pretty close to Ruby. I find that
> amusing. :)
>
> Actually, I'm curious what the numbers look like if you count "PLT
> Scheme" towards Racket.
>
> Vincent
>
>
>
> On Wed, 24 Feb 2016 11:06:51 -0600,
> Brian Adkins wrote:
> >
> > I began compiling very crude statistics on programming language
> popularity back in 2009, and just kept doing it periodically. Initially I
> did it manually, but I finally got smart and wrote the following Racket
> program to scrape the results automatically:
> >
> > https://gist.github.com/lojic/83fff86aeea6af1c31ac
> >
> > The numbers should clearly be taken lightly, but there is *some*
> information to be had. Here is the latest post:
> >
> >
> http://blog.lojic.com/2016/02/24/programming-language-popularity-part-ten/
> >
> > I am fortunate in being able to choose whatever tool I feel is best, so
> popularity isn't that important to me. Having a critical mass of libraries
> is, but that's another matter.
> >
> > After a decade of C/C++, followed by a decade of Java, I came across
> Ruby, and it has been my primary development language for the last decade.
> Ruby was such an improvement over Java that it finally dawned on me to make
> a purposeful search to see if I might get an improvement over Ruby that it
> was over Java.
> >
> > Thus began a nine year search through Common Lisp, Haskell, Clojure,
> Standard ML, OCaml, Julia, Pony (barely), etc., and Racket has emerged as
> the clear winner for me personally. I'm already as productive in Racket as
> I am in Ruby for a number of things, but I do have a fair amount of work to
> do before I'm as productive in web development as I am with Rails. I'm
> hoping that 2016 will be the year of preparation to allow a complete switch.
> >
> > Brian
> >
> > --
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> Groups "Racket Users" group.
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> an email to racket-users+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
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Re: [racket-users] Programming language popularity (there's no accounting for taste!)

[Vincent St-Amour]

Cool!

Now we just need to find a way to detect when people say Scheme but
really mean Racket. ;)

Vincent



On Wed, 24 Feb 2016 11:33:46 -0600,
Brian Adkins wrote:
> 
> On Wednesday, February 24, 2016 at 12:24:59 PM UTC-5, Vincent St-Amour wrote:
> > If we add up the "Racket" and "Scheme" numbers (the latter being, I
> > suspect, mostly Racket), the total is pretty close to Ruby. I find that
> > amusing. :)
> > 
> > Actually, I'm curious what the numbers look like if you count "PLT
> > Scheme" towards Racket.
> > 
> > Vincent
> 
> In previous blog posts, I included aggregate lines for things like "lisp 
> family", "ml family", etc. but skipped it this time out of laziness.
> 
> I just ran the Racket program with "PLT Scheme" and got the following:
> 
> $ racket pl_popularity.rkt
> Path=/search?q=%22written%20in%20PLT%20Scheme%22 Num=4370
> Path=/search?q=%22programmed%20in%20PLT%20Scheme%22 Num=2
> Path=/search?q=%22developed%20in%20PLT%20Scheme%22 Num=518
> Path=/search?q=%22implemented%20in%20PLT%20Scheme%22 Num=2120
> (PLT Scheme 7010)
> 
> For comparison, here's the Racket data:
> 
> Path=/search?q=%22written%20in%20racket%22 Num=6210
> Path=/search?q=%22programmed%20in%20racket%22 Num=1520
> Path=/search?q=%22developed%20in%20racket%22 Num=5090
> Path=/search?q=%22implemented%20in%20racket%22 Num=3330
> (racket 16150)
> 
> By the way, if anyone runs the program - it's purposefully slow to avoid 
> getting banned by Google, so the random wait per query is rather long. I 
> thought it was broken because it took so long to get the first results, and 
> I'm the author, so I thought I'd pass on that info :)
> 
> Brian

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Re: [racket-users] Programming language popularity (there's no accounting for taste!)

[Brian Adkins]

On Wednesday, February 24, 2016 at 12:24:59 PM UTC-5, Vincent St-Amour wrote:
> If we add up the "Racket" and "Scheme" numbers (the latter being, I
> suspect, mostly Racket), the total is pretty close to Ruby. I find that
> amusing. :)
> 
> Actually, I'm curious what the numbers look like if you count "PLT
> Scheme" towards Racket.
> 
> Vincent

In previous blog posts, I included aggregate lines for things like "lisp 
family", "ml family", etc. but skipped it this time out of laziness.

I just ran the Racket program with "PLT Scheme" and got the following:

$ racket pl_popularity.rkt
Path=/search?q=%22written%20in%20PLT%20Scheme%22 Num=4370
Path=/search?q=%22programmed%20in%20PLT%20Scheme%22 Num=2
Path=/search?q=%22developed%20in%20PLT%20Scheme%22 Num=518
Path=/search?q=%22implemented%20in%20PLT%20Scheme%22 Num=2120
(PLT Scheme 7010)

For comparison, here's the Racket data:

Path=/search?q=%22written%20in%20racket%22 Num=6210
Path=/search?q=%22programmed%20in%20racket%22 Num=1520
Path=/search?q=%22developed%20in%20racket%22 Num=5090
Path=/search?q=%22implemented%20in%20racket%22 Num=3330
(racket 16150)

By the way, if anyone runs the program - it's purposefully slow to avoid 
getting banned by Google, so the random wait per query is rather long. I 
thought it was broken because it took so long to get the first results, and I'm 
the author, so I thought I'd pass on that info :)

Brian

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Re: [racket-users] Programming language popularity (there's no accounting for taste!)

[Vincent St-Amour]

If we add up the "Racket" and "Scheme" numbers (the latter being, I
suspect, mostly Racket), the total is pretty close to Ruby. I find that
amusing. :)

Actually, I'm curious what the numbers look like if you count "PLT
Scheme" towards Racket.

Vincent



On Wed, 24 Feb 2016 11:06:51 -0600,
Brian Adkins wrote:
> 
> I began compiling very crude statistics on programming language popularity 
> back in 2009, and just kept doing it periodically. Initially I did it 
> manually, but I finally got smart and wrote the following Racket program to 
> scrape the results automatically:
> 
> https://gist.github.com/lojic/83fff86aeea6af1c31ac
> 
> The numbers should clearly be taken lightly, but there is *some* information 
> to be had. Here is the latest post:
> 
> http://blog.lojic.com/2016/02/24/programming-language-popularity-part-ten/
> 
> I am fortunate in being able to choose whatever tool I feel is best, so 
> popularity isn't that important to me. Having a critical mass of libraries 
> is, but that's another matter.
> 
> After a decade of C/C++, followed by a decade of Java, I came across Ruby, 
> and it has been my primary development language for the last decade. Ruby was 
> such an improvement over Java that it finally dawned on me to make a 
> purposeful search to see if I might get an improvement over Ruby that it was 
> over Java.
> 
> Thus began a nine year search through Common Lisp, Haskell, Clojure, Standard 
> ML, OCaml, Julia, Pony (barely), etc., and Racket has emerged as the clear 
> winner for me personally. I'm already as productive in Racket as I am in Ruby 
> for a number of things, but I do have a fair amount of work to do before I'm 
> as productive in web development as I am with Rails. I'm hoping that 2016 
> will be the year of preparation to allow a complete switch.
> 
> Brian
> 
> -- 
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
> "Racket Users" group.
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[racket-users] Programming language popularity (there's no accounting for taste!)

[Brian Adkins]

I began compiling very crude statistics on programming language popularity back 
in 2009, and just kept doing it periodically. Initially I did it manually, but 
I finally got smart and wrote the following Racket program to scrape the 
results automatically:

https://gist.github.com/lojic/83fff86aeea6af1c31ac

The numbers should clearly be taken lightly, but there is *some* information to 
be had. Here is the latest post:

http://blog.lojic.com/2016/02/24/programming-language-popularity-part-ten/

I am fortunate in being able to choose whatever tool I feel is best, so 
popularity isn't that important to me. Having a critical mass of libraries is, 
but that's another matter.

After a decade of C/C++, followed by a decade of Java, I came across Ruby, and 
it has been my primary development language for the last decade. Ruby was such 
an improvement over Java that it finally dawned on me to make a purposeful 
search to see if I might get an improvement over Ruby that it was over Java.

Thus began a nine year search through Common Lisp, Haskell, Clojure, Standard 
ML, OCaml, Julia, Pony (barely), etc., and Racket has emerged as the clear 
winner for me personally. I'm already as productive in Racket as I am in Ruby 
for a number of things, but I do have a fair amount of work to do before I'm as 
productive in web development as I am with Rails. I'm hoping that 2016 will be 
the year of preparation to allow a complete switch.

Brian

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