Re: [rails-oceania] Why there are not many junior RoR jobs in Australia?

[Ryan Bigg]

I gave a talk last year on "Hiring Juniors" at Melbourne Ruby about this topic. 
Here it is in text form: http://ryanbigg.com/2016/04/hiring-juniors. It's still 
relevant this year. 

However, there is a MASSIVE gap between graduates coming from code academies or 
even people with little "real world" experience and companies hiring those 
people. Companies expect so much of juniors. Things like: 

* A "substantial" application built 
* Prior group work experience
* Willingness to learn new things
* The courage to admit you don't know things and to reach out for help when you 
need it
* Possibly even contributing/contributed to open source 

People with not much industry experience don't really have these things, and 
yet companies want new people to have these things. We need to help more people 
to bridge this gap.

What we should do as a community to help those people out is to volunteer our 
time as mentors. I do this already with one person. I'd like to do it with more 
but finding time is hard. More of us should do it. I'm sure there's people here 
who have spare time and could do it.

This way, we can help these people bridge this gap. We can help them build apps 
of substance; things that they can use in their portfolio for when they apply 
for a job. We can help them contribute to open source for the first time. We 
can help them work on ideas for talks to give at meetups or even conferences.

In Melbourne, there's the Hack Nights which are a great venue for this sort of 
thing. But you're not limited to just that. 

If you want to volunteer your time, I'd encourage you to create a new thread 
here, give a little explanation of who you are and what times you're available 
and what you'd like to help with.

If you're a junior looking for help: you can start your own thread too. Don't 
be afraid to reach out here and ask for mentorship with anything at all. The 
Ruby community is the friendliest community I've ever been a part of. 

If you want to also, you can email me directly (m...@ryanbigg.com) and I can 
provide some light mentorship / direction as well.


> On 3 Mar 2017, at 13:56, Michael Cindric  
> wrote:
> 
> We have filled 2 jnr roles recently so they are out there
> 
> 
> 
> Kind Regards,
> ……..
> Michael Cindrić | Sentia
> Founder & CEO | Software Developer 
> 
> 
> e: michael.cind...@sentia.com.au  |  t: +61 2 800 35216  |  m: 0403 526 226 | 
> d: +61 2 8381 3400
> 
> www.sentia.com.au
> 
> 
> IMPORTANT
> This message contains privileged and confidential information intended only 
> for the use of the recipient. If you are not the intended recipient of this 
> message you are hereby notified that you must not disseminate, copy or take 
> any action in reliance on it. If you have received this message in error 
> please notify sentia immediately.
> 
>> On 3 Mar 2017, at 1:50 am, soto  wrote:
>> 
>> Yes, I live in Melbourne and do not need any sponsorship. Not sure, how I 
>> missed that ad.
>> Could you please post it here.
>> 
>> 
>>> On Thursday, March 2, 2017 at 11:27:51 AM UTC+11, maxs wrote:
>>> Hi soto,
>>> 
>>> Where are you looking for jobs?
>>> 
>>> We recently advertised for a junior rails developer position on Seek and 
>>> received precisely zero applications.
>>> 
>>> 
 On Wednesday, March 1, 2017 at 11:09:02 AM UTC+11, soto wrote:
 I was wondering why there are not many RoR jobs in Australia. I have been 
 searching for one year, only found exactly 3 junior RoR jobs!
 Most organisations want someone with 2+ years experience. I am not sure, 
 is it something that you born with. I have not heard any baby 
 born with 2+ years RoR experience. Parents please share your experience.
>> 
>> 
>> -- 
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> 
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Re: [rails-oceania] Why there are not many junior RoR jobs in Australia?

[Michael Cindric]

We have filled 2 jnr roles recently so they are out there



Kind Regards,
……..
Michael Cindrić | Sentia
Founder & CEO | Software Developer 


e: michael.cind...@sentia.com.au  |   t: 
+61 2 800  35216  |  m: 0403 526 226  | 
d: +61 2 8381 3400 

 
www. sentia.com.au 


IMPORTANT
This message contains privileged and confidential information intended only for 
the use of the recipient. If you are not the intended recipient of this message 
you are hereby notified that you must not disseminate, copy or take any action 
in reliance on it. If you have received this message in error please notify 
sentia immediately.

> On 3 Mar 2017, at 1:50 am, soto  wrote:
> 
> Yes, I live in Melbourne and do not need any sponsorship. Not sure, how I 
> missed that ad.
> Could you please post it here.
> 
> 
> On Thursday, March 2, 2017 at 11:27:51 AM UTC+11, maxs wrote:
> Hi soto,
> 
> Where are you looking for jobs?
> 
> We recently advertised for a junior rails developer position on Seek and 
> received precisely zero applications.
> 
> 
> On Wednesday, March 1, 2017 at 11:09:02 AM UTC+11, soto wrote:
> I was wondering why there are not many RoR jobs in Australia. I have been 
> searching for one year, only found exactly 3 junior RoR jobs!
> Most organisations want someone with 2+ years experience. I am not sure, is 
> it something that you born with. I have not heard any baby 
> born with 2+ years RoR experience. Parents please share your experience.
> 
> -- 
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
> "Ruby or Rails Oceania" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
> email to rails-oceania+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com 
> .
> To post to this group, send email to rails-oceania@googlegroups.com 
> .
> Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/rails-oceania 
> .
> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout 
> .

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[rails-oceania] Re: Why there are not many junior RoR jobs in Australia?

[maxs]

The job was advertised in October. 

The link is no longer available and the position is not currently open.


On Thursday, March 2, 2017 at 2:33:00 PM UTC+11, Pedro Araujo wrote:
>
> Hi Max
>
> Could you please share the link of the Job Ad? 
>

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Re: [rails-oceania] Re: Why there are not many junior RoR jobs in Australia?

[Yasith Fernando]

FYI Envato is also hiring a junior Ruby dev:
https://boards.greenhouse.io/envato/jobs/542888

On Fri, 3 Mar 2017 at 10:35 soto  wrote:

> Yes, I live in Melbourne and do not need any sponsorship. Not sure, how I
> missed that ad.
> Could you please post it here.
>
>
> On Thursday, March 2, 2017 at 11:27:51 AM UTC+11, maxs wrote:
>
> Hi soto,
>
> Where are you looking for jobs?
>
> We recently advertised for a junior rails developer position on Seek and
> received precisely zero applications.
>
>
> On Wednesday, March 1, 2017 at 11:09:02 AM UTC+11, soto wrote:
>
> I was wondering why there are not many RoR jobs in Australia. I have been
> searching for one year, only found exactly 3 junior RoR jobs!
> Most organisations want someone with 2+ years experience. I am not sure,
> is it something that you born with. I have not heard any baby
> born with 2+ years RoR experience. Parents please share your experience.
>
> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> "Ruby or Rails Oceania" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an
> email to rails-oceania+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
> To post to this group, send email to rails-oceania@googlegroups.com.
> Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/rails-oceania.
> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
>

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[rails-oceania] Re: Why there are not many junior RoR jobs in Australia?

[soto]

Yes, I live in Melbourne and do not need any sponsorship. Not sure, how I 
missed that ad.
Could you please post it here.


On Thursday, March 2, 2017 at 11:27:51 AM UTC+11, maxs wrote:
>
> Hi soto,
>
> Where are you looking for jobs?
>
> We recently advertised for a junior rails developer position on Seek and 
> received precisely zero applications.
>
>
> On Wednesday, March 1, 2017 at 11:09:02 AM UTC+11, soto wrote:
>>
>> I was wondering why there are not many RoR jobs in Australia. I have been 
>> searching for one year, only found exactly 3 junior RoR jobs!
>> Most organisations want someone with 2+ years experience. I am not sure, 
>> is it something that you born with. I have not heard any baby 
>> born with 2+ years RoR experience. Parents please share your experience.
>>
>

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[rails-oceania] Re: Why there are not many junior RoR jobs in Australia?

[michaelnoack]

Junior's are long-term investments, likely to be made by bigger companies 
(and ruby places tend to be the more risk taking, which tends to be smaller 
areas), seniors are short-term.

If a business needs to hire to get something important done within the next 
months, they'll basically need a senior.

If a business is thinking about the next few years they should consider a 
junior.

BUT even then given the first year the junior may *not only* not be near as 
productive as a senior (their ruby might be limited, their js might be 
limited, their knowledge of cloud services, the various frameworks used in 
the business, etc. is probably limited).

*BUT *they may also require significant time of a senior (thus taking a 
senior away from an existing project.

If someone is junior enough (imagine they just graduated uni and knew no 
ruby or rails or JS), the business might for example lose $100,000 on them 
in the first year and maybe break-even the second. $60,000 in 
wages/super/computer/etc. for the junior and $40,000 in lost productivity 
from the senior who is training/guiding them.

Hiring a junior is probably best done 2 or more at a time because of this, 
so it's not something businesses can easily do.

Combine that with the *HUGE RISK* that after say 2 years when the business 
might have finally broken even on the junior (who is now intermediate) 
leaves for another company.

On Wednesday, March 1, 2017 at 10:39:02 AM UTC+10:30, soto wrote:
>
> I was wondering why there are not many RoR jobs in Australia. I have been 
> searching for one year, only found exactly 3 junior RoR jobs!
> Most organisations want someone with 2+ years experience. I am not sure, 
> is it something that you born with. I have not heard any baby 
> born with 2+ years RoR experience. Parents please share your experience.
>

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[rails-oceania] Re: Why there are not many junior RoR jobs in Australia?

[MT]

Are you still looking for a job?

On Thursday, 2 March 2017 18:23:45 UTC+11, soto wrote:
>
> How is it possible? I have searched Seek/Linkedin almost everyday but have 
> not seen your ad!
> Can you post the link here ?
>
>
> Hi soto,
>
> Where are you looking for jobs?
>
> We recently advertised for a junior rails developer position on Seek and 
> received precisely zero applications.
>

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