[RBW] Re: Happy new AHH owner
Haahaaa... Yeah, it almost looks like he has an AHH cast ;) -- Richard On Jun 2, 6:00 am, Rene Sterental orthie...@gmail.com wrote: Great bike! Noticed how Grant's cast is AHH blue as well! :-) René -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
Re: [RBW] 67cm AHH double top tube inquiry
on 6/3/10 7:42 PM, LouisvillePatrick at flightofthebomba...@gmail.com wrote: So I own a Salsa Casseroll, and I'm finding it positively flimsy under my 265 pounds, especially under out of the saddle efforts. It's otherwise a very comfie ride, but I know my weight will take it's toll at some point in some form or fashion. At the moment, a 67cm Hilsen is the number one candidate to replace the Salsa as my clubby ride, brevet bike. I'm told it will have double top tubes at that size (I'm an 86cm PBH), though many 67's I've seen online have only one. I love my 64cm Bomba and it's double top tubes, but I've had a *little* trouble getting my head around my speedy bike having double top tubes. I'll get over it, because the second tube does WONDERS for clydesdale type riders. Does anyone have a double top tube Hilsen in a 67cm? Would you care to type a few words about it? Maybe post a picture or two? I'm definitely not in your frame size range, but the double top tube approach is pretty valid - particularly for taller frames which are flexing. The tall Hilsens were the first to get the twin top tube treatment from Riv - the Bomba design came together after that. About the same time, GP was writing about truss structures in the Readers, and how they distributed forces and created appropriately rigid structures. I think that was the genesis of that twin top tube approach when appropriate. There are others who have reached the same conclusion - Bernie Mikkelsen as an example: http://www.flickr.com/photos/jimg/403130063/ Obviously, you have to get your mind around it, but as evidence in favor, I'd point out that if your Salsa is flexing and you are in love with your Bomba, it sounds like you're already there. The actual weight of a top tube and the two half-lugs is pretty danged minimal. If you plunked 'em on a balance scale with a water bottle on the other side The resultant ride is going to be what a smaller sized rider gets with a single top tube frame - riv comfort and superb handling. Just what you want for your next brevet. - Jim -- Jim Edgar cyclofi...@earthlink.net Cyclofiend Bicycle Photo Galleries - http://www.cyclofiend.com Current Classics - Cross Bikes Singlespeed - Working Bikes Gallery updates now appear here - http://cyclofiend.blogspot.com That which is overdesigned, too highly specific, anticipates outcome; the anticipation of outcome guarantees, if not failure, the absence of grace. William Gibson - All Tomorrow's Parties -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
Re: [RBW] Re: Wanted: Touring racks
Get the Tubus Cosmo and Tubus Nova in silver, or the Cargo/Tara in black. I prefer the silver ones and like the Cosmo better than the Cargo. Get them from Wiggle (www.wiggle.co.uk). Significantly lower $ prices due to the exchange rate and free shipping to the U.S. You won't be able to find them for a lower price here in the U.S. You can also go with the Nitto Big Front and Rear racks. Those are beautiful, probably more than the Tubus and will go perfectly with the Atlantis. An even more flexible option is to to with whatever rear rack you want from the options mentioned above, and then use a Nitto Mini front rack that you can leave permanently to use a Rando Bag, basket or anything else and add the Tubus Nova/Tara for the front panniers. This way you can remove them when you're not touring but still use the Nitto Mini. Having all of these myself, it's really hard for me to decide which one is really the best, or I like the best. I like them all! Just haven't been able to tour yet, but will have all my Riv bikes racked for S24Os and commuting. René -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
[RBW] Re: Rapha has love for Rivendell
To many people 'marketing' is a strictly contrived, usually disingenuous effort to sell products. It's hard not to think of it that way, given the amount of advertisement present in the U.S. for stuff we don't need and wouldn't otherwise want. The best marketers are able to convince themselves that what they are selling is actually good. What separates Grant Petersen from those marketers is that GP does not need to convince himself of anything-he obviously really likes what he sells, or he wouldn't have brought it to market or decided to sell it. I think people can tell this is so, and it's refreshing to them, and so they become Rivendell customers. As for the Rivendell Reader: while it contains a fair amount of advocacy for Rivendell's products, it is clear that Grant Petersen would be happy writing about these things even if they were some other company's products.GP often does that in the RR anyway (writes in praise of non-affiliated company products, that Rivendell does not sell).Of course much of the RR has nothing to do with products, or even to do with bicycles, but with various other tangents, usually interesting to those who like bicycles and camping. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
[RBW] Re: 67cm AHH double top tube inquiry
Whoops! Yes. 96! On Jun 3, 11:33 pm, William tapebu...@gmail.com wrote: (I'm an 86cm PBH) I imagine when you say '86' you maybe mean '96'? On Jun 3, 7:42 pm, LouisvillePatrick flightofthebomba...@gmail.com wrote: So I own a Salsa Casseroll, and I'm finding it positively flimsy under my 265 pounds, especially under out of the saddle efforts. It's otherwise a very comfie ride, but I know my weight will take it's toll at some point in some form or fashion. At the moment, a 67cm Hilsen is the number one candidate to replace the Salsa as my clubby ride, brevet bike. I'm told it will have double top tubes at that size (I'm an 86cm PBH), though many 67's I've seen online have only one. I love my 64cm Bomba and it's double top tubes, but I've had a *little* trouble getting my head around my speedy bike having double top tubes. I'll get over it, because the second tube does WONDERS for clydesdale type riders. Does anyone have a double top tube Hilsen in a 67cm? Would you care to type a few words about it? Maybe post a picture or two? Cheers! Patrick- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
[RBW] Re: 67cm AHH double top tube inquiry
Good call. I'm sure the wheelset plays into this. 32 hole Dura Ace hubset with CXP33s with a beautiful set of Jack Brown Greens not pumped up too hard. Absolutely. When I look down at the front wheel when out of the sadde (just for a second!), I can see the tire compressing, etc. The spokes sometimes creak. I should have gone with 36 holes, but here we are. I'm mostly talking about bottom bracket sway and resulting front derailler rub. Though not a huge deal, it can get annoying, and metal rubbing metal, unintended, is never really a good thing. I'm no stranger to bottom bracket failures...a Soma Doublecross failed at the bottom bracket once when I was much heavier (thank goodness for steel...I unknowingly rode all the way home on a cracked and deforming bottom bracket, noticing only occasional strange sounds and some chain rub on the derailler). The stouter tubeset and second top tube of the Bomba eliminate all of that funny business. I'm thinking the Hilsen might be the perfect balance. On Jun 4, 7:40 am, Steve Palincsar palin...@his.com wrote: On Thu, 2010-06-03 at 19:42 -0700, LouisvillePatrick wrote: So I own a Salsa Casseroll, and I'm finding it positively flimsy under my 265 pounds, especially under out of the saddle efforts. Are you sure it's not the wheels that seem flimsy? -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
[RBW] Re: 67cm AHH double top tube inquiry
Well said! I hope that Bernie Mikkelsen has been returned to it's rightful owner! I'm definitely not in your frame size range, but the double top tube approach is pretty valid - particularly for taller frames which are flexing. The tall Hilsens were the first to get the twin top tube treatment from Riv - the Bomba design came together after that. About the same time, GP was writing about truss structures in the Readers, and how they distributed forces and created appropriately rigid structures. I think that was the genesis of that twin top tube approach when appropriate. There are others who have reached the same conclusion - Bernie Mikkelsen as an example: http://www.flickr.com/photos/jimg/403130063/ Obviously, you have to get your mind around it, but as evidence in favor, I'd point out that if your Salsa is flexing and you are in love with your Bomba, it sounds like you're already there. The actual weight of a top tube and the two half-lugs is pretty danged minimal. If you plunked 'em on a balance scale with a water bottle on the other side The resultant ride is going to be what a smaller sized rider gets with a single top tube frame - riv comfort and superb handling. Just what you want for your next brevet. - Jim -- Jim Edgar cyclofi...@earthlink.net Cyclofiend Bicycle Photo Galleries -http://www.cyclofiend.com Current Classics - Cross Bikes Singlespeed - Working Bikes Gallery updates now appear here -http://cyclofiend.blogspot.com That which is overdesigned, too highly specific, anticipates outcome; the anticipation of outcome guarantees, if not failure, the absence of grace. William Gibson - All Tomorrow's Parties- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
[RBW] Re: Rapha has love for Rivendell
My comments were meant as compliments to both for creating niches that otherwise would not exist. I think this statement goes too far. Riv and Rapha are strong players in their respective niches. Both are doing better than one might have thought looking at the industry 10years ago. However, there were many top line cycle clothing companies before Rapha. There are many excellent alternatives to Rapha, albeit perhaps none with the marketing zing. As we all ought to know by now, Grant started Riv after Bridgestone dropped his line of bikes. Under Grant, Bridgestone made a well respected line of lugged steel bikes. But it was hardly the only player at the time. Likewise today. Even if you leave out the many full custom lugged steel bike makers out there selling close to Riv prices (sometimes below!) there are Waterford in the U.S.and Toei, Panasonic and a few others in Japan all of which make similar products (two of which make Rivendell products). For the record, I am with those who say GP's marketing is part and parcel apart from Rapha's. Both obviously get the job done. Other than that, no similar philosophy. On Jun 4, 12:12 am, Michael_S mikeybi...@rocketmail.com wrote: Grant's marketing skills are so good some people don't even think he has any that is the ultimate compliment in my book. we all keep tuned in to his website and this forum waiting for the next bike or gadget... What both Rapha and Rivendell have done is create a niche of dedicated customers for their high end bicycling products and both have been reasonably successful in their own ways. Different approaches but similar in their customer base... those willing to pay a premium for quality bicycling products. My comments were meant as compliments to both for creating niches that otherwise would not exist. ~Mike~ On Jun 3, 8:46 pm, John Speare johnspe...@gmail.com wrote: On Thu, Jun 3, 2010 at 8:26 PM, XO-1.org Rough Riders adventureco...@gmail.com wrote: Yes, perhaps brilliant for the extant Riv fans who read it, but marketing implies reaching beyond the current fan/customer base. I don't see that happening, and never really have. I guess it depends on how one defines marketing. I define it as promoting your products so people buy them. Aside from his abilities at getting interesting bikes built/shipped in our current world (which is a huge talent), I think marketing is Grant Petersen's strongest strength. I've had Bridgestone catalogs, Rivendell catalogs, and Readers laying around my house for years. Many times, non-bikey friends have picked up this stuff, read it, and remarked on how just reading this stuff makes them want to ride a bike. GP has a way of mareketing a lifestyle that feels very un-marketing-y: humble, straight-forward, folksy, personable, approriately technical, reasonable, etc... it certainly pulled me in many years ago, and still charms me and makes me want to buy his stuff. For the most part, I think marketing deserves a bad rap -- it's often a pack of lies or manipulation of our fears or sentimental sucker punches. But in GP's case, marketing appears to be an extension of the Riv ethic. It's sort of marketing at it's best: just telling the story of your products with as much genuine honesty as you reasonably can. But in the end, I still see it as marketing. -- John Speare Spokane, WA USAhttp://cyclingspokane.blogspot.com/- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
[RBW] Re: Wanted: Touring racks
+3 for Tubus. Or, for a bit more money Bruce Gordon will make you an even better set custom measured to your bike and needs. Aluminum racks are fine for light commuting or carrying a few things on training and pleasure rides. I cannot think of any aluminum rack I would want on a 2000 mile loaded trip. On Jun 3, 8:46 pm, thebvo the...@gmail.com wrote: Howdy I'm the proud new owner of an Atlantis, which my pops so lovingly built up for me. First tour on my list is the pacific coast hwy. All 2,000 miles of it. So, I guess I'll need some quality racks. I've been looking for steel, and I'd like to stay away from aluminum, unless someone can sway me otherwise. I would like to purchase a pair from one source. I am also willing to listen to general opinions from experienced tourers. Thanks for reading, and happy riding ~Ben -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
[RBW] Le Cirque Preview
For those attending the Cirque du Cyclisme this weekend in Leesburg VA, I'm showing off a couple bikes that ooze the Rivendell spirit (if not bits and pieces I've acquired from them). Here's a preview of one of them; a 1977 Trek TX500 - recently reimagined. It was a blast putting this one together, and may result in a matching Rivendell someday. Baltimore builder Chris Bishop did the various frame mods, which were minimal but included a few really well executed details. FYI - I converted Paul center-mount Racers to Braze-on, and had to get different pivot bushings from them. Worked out great! Personally, I like single color paint jobs, and Circle A did a great job on this one. More next week (and a couple more surprises) after the Cirque! http://tinyurl.com/24w3ewy Marty Here's the link to Le Cirque - there will be tons more photos uploaded after the show. http://www.cirqueducyclisme.com/ -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
[RBW] Re: Mtb Levers for Cantis
Garth, Perfect, exactly the info I was looking for. Thanks. I'm bummed about the FL730, as the quick release is a nice problem solver. I've got a pair of Dia Compe SS-5 Mark II's (geez, I'm a geek) on the way from another list member. I'll give those a shot. Ginz -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
[RBW] Re: Rapha has love for Rivendell
On Jun 4, 8:53 am, JoelMatthews joelmatth...@mac.com wrote: My comments were meant as compliments to both for creating niches that otherwise would not exist. I think this statement goes too far. I don't. I think Mike is spot on. without riv, there wouldn't be $150 tweed saddle pouches and folks tweeking over what shellac/cloth tape combination will best compliment their bikes. and to my knowledge, there isn't a bicycle clothing company that goes around the country documenting awesome rides and encouraging others to ride them by posting cue sheets and photo-journaling everything. it's not just about their products. both appeal to a lifestyle, and the two certainly are not mutually exclusive. For the record, I am with those who say GP's marketing is part and parcel apart from Rapha's. Both obviously get the job done. Other than that, no similar philosophy. philosophy . ... hmm. both are appreciate and promote steel bicycles. both are concerned with quality. both are concerned with aesthetics. seems similar. am i being too objective? -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
RE: [RBW] 67cm AHH double top tube inquiry
Date: Thu, 3 Jun 2010 23:18:34 -0700 Subject: Re: [RBW] 67cm AHH double top tube inquiry From: cyclofi...@earthlink.net To: rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com to type a few words about it? Maybe post a picture or two? I'm definitely not in your frame size range, but the double top tube approach is pretty valid - particularly for taller frames which are flexing. The tall Hilsens were the first to get the twin top tube treatment from Riv - the Bomba design came together after that. About the same time, GP was writing about truss structures in the Readers, and how they distributed forces and created appropriately rigid structures. I think that was the genesis of that twin top tube approach when appropriate. There are others who have reached the same conclusion - Bernie Mikkelsen as an example: http://www.flickr.com/photos/jimg/403130063/ Obviously, you have to get your mind around it, but as evidence in favor, I'd point out that if your Salsa is flexing and you are in love with your Bomba, it sounds like you're already there. The actual weight of a top tube and the two half-lugs is pretty danged minimal. If you plunked 'em on a balance scale with a water bottle on the other side The resultant ride is going to be what a smaller sized rider gets with a single top tube frame - riv comfort and superb handling. Just what you want for your next brevet. - Jim -- Jim Edgar cyclofi...@earthlink.net Cyclofiend Bicycle Photo Galleries - http://www.cyclofiend.com Current Classics - Cross Bikes Singlespeed - Working Bikes Gallery updates now appear here - http://cyclofiend.blogspot.com That which is overdesigned, too highly specific, anticipates outcome; the anticipation of outcome guarantees, if not failure, the absence of grace. William Gibson - All Tomorrow's Parties Maybe this is a better question for a frame builder but would wider tubes solve the problem just as well as a double top tube? My steel tandem uses slightly oversized tubing to add some rigidity. Given the size of the bike the wider tubes look appropriate. On something like a 66 or 68 frame I would think that 31.8 tubing might allow a standard diamond frame to be used. Larry Powers Get a bicycle. You will not regret it if you live. - Mark Twain _ The New Busy is not the old busy. Search, chat and e-mail from your inbox. http://www.windowslive.com/campaign/thenewbusy?ocid=PID28326::T:WLMTAGL:ON:WL:en-US:WM_HMP:042010_3 -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
Re: [RBW] Re: Rapha has love for Rivendell
I said: My take? Riv has no marketing strategy as such; instead they have Grant's (a) love of bicycles and (b) whimsical humor. My sense is that the names, poems, etc. are not at all deliberate, thought out marketing tactics and strategies as commonly understood -- I write many upper level marketing resumes, and I know how that works. John said: On Thu, Jun 3, 2010 at 9:46 PM, John Speare johnspe...@gmail.com wrote: For the most part, I think marketing deserves a bad rap -- it's often a pack of lies or manipulation of our fears or sentimental sucker punches. But in GP's case, marketing appears to be an extension of the Riv ethic. It's sort of marketing at it's best: just telling the story of your products with as much genuine honesty as you reasonably can. But in the end, I still see it as marketing. -- I believe that John got it more right than I did. Yes, marketing, but a direct expression of his somewhat whimsical love of bikes and related products. But not an LLBean creation of a certain atmosphere or, IMO, even a VO or Rapha image -- I believe that Grant is too honest for a deliberate creation of image -- the image is simply what he believes and loves. And I bet he hates being analyzed in this way on list. Sorry ... -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
Re: [RBW] 67cm AHH double top tube inquiry
On Fri, Jun 4, 2010 at 9:57 AM, Larry Powers lapower...@hotmail.com wrote: Maybe this is a better question for a frame builder but would wider tubes solve the problem just as well as a double top tube? My steel tandem uses slightly oversized tubing to add some rigidity. Given the size of the bike the wider tubes look appropriate. On something like a 66 or 68 frame I would think that 31.8 tubing might allow a standard diamond frame to be used. Unless your tandem is very very old you should have some sort of cross-support tube in the middle of it going from the top of the head tube, normally, to the bottom of the stoker's seat tube. like this one: http://www.flickr.com/photos/skvidal/2673426270/ but it'd easiest to ask a framebuilder, I suspect. Bilenky, bob brown cycles both build tandems. -sv -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
[RBW] Re: Rapha has love for Rivendell
I don't. I think Mike is spot on. without riv, there wouldn't be $150 tweed saddle pouches and folks tweeking over what shellac/cloth tape combination will best compliment their bikes. Is that Riv's niche? I always thought it was making lugged steel bikes. In any event, Carradice, Berthoud, Ostrich and some other Japanese brands I am too lazy to look up at the moment, predate Riv and exist independently of Riv. philosophy . ... hmm. both are appreciate and promote steel bicycles. both are concerned with quality. both are concerned with aesthetics. seems similar. am i being too objective? The correct term would be Fallacy of Accident. You are assuming some general similarities make the two alike. Rapha makes a decent line of product - as good as, but not necessarily better than many other available cycling clothes. Rapha uses glossy internet, bike show, evet and media sales promotion to move more of its product at higher prices than many of its competitors. Riv makes somewhat unique lugged steel bikes. As Patick Moore, I and others point out, Riv does not really have a marketing campaign per se. Certainly nothing as calculated and carefully executed as Rapha. It is certanly not objective to say Rapha and Riv share similar business philosophies. On Jun 4, 8:53 am, Patrick in VT swing4...@gmail.com wrote: On Jun 4, 8:53 am, JoelMatthews joelmatth...@mac.com wrote: My comments were meant as compliments to both for creating niches that otherwise would not exist. I think this statement goes too far. I don't. I think Mike is spot on. without riv, there wouldn't be $150 tweed saddle pouches and folks tweeking over what shellac/cloth tape combination will best compliment their bikes. and to my knowledge, there isn't a bicycle clothing company that goes around the country documenting awesome rides and encouraging others to ride them by posting cue sheets and photo-journaling everything. it's not just about their products. both appeal to a lifestyle, and the two certainly are not mutually exclusive. For the record, I am with those who say GP's marketing is part and parcel apart from Rapha's. Both obviously get the job done. Other than that, no similar philosophy. philosophy . ... hmm. both are appreciate and promote steel bicycles. both are concerned with quality. both are concerned with aesthetics. seems similar. am i being too objective? -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
[RBW] Re: Wanted: Touring racks
On Jun 3, 6:46 pm, thebvo the...@gmail.com wrote: So, I guess I'll need some quality racks. I've been looking for steel, and I'd like to stay away from aluminum, unless someone can sway me otherwise. . Some thoughts: 1. I remain a fan of the Blackburn EX-1 Expedition rack, which I think is STILL the best aluminum rear rack made. I wish they could find a way to make a stout front rack that matches it -- currently their only offerings are a low-rider model I'm not crazy about and their re- issued MTF-1 (which is still plenty stout but matches their MT-1 rack in appearance). It would also be nice to see this set come out in sliver; I'm SO burned out on black aluminum racks! I have an old [silver] EX-1 on my Rivvy city bike, and it has served me well for over 15 years of commuting and touring (It was originally on the bike previous to the Rivvy). It is ever-so-slightly dented but still going strong. I personally would not have a problem running the EX-1 and the MTF-1 together for a PCH tour. 2. I am intrigued by the new Dajia rear rack from VO and am waiting to see one in person. They are shaped sort of like Tubus models and mount similarly as well, for less money than a Tubus. I'm told that a matching front low-rider should be available later this year. 3. Depending on how much you plan to carry, the Nice Rack from Surly is really strong, but from a design standpoint is, frankly, a bit of overkill. (I see a Nice rack and instantly think of a 1957 Crown Vickie... much too much, ya know?) If aesthetics matter the Tubus would be, IMHO, a better choice than the Surly. Friends who ride with Tubus are happy with them, and I've never seen one come back on warranty since we started selling them about seven years ago. In any event -- I'm super-envious of your touring opportunity! Have a grand time! --bh -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
Re: [RBW] Re: Wanted: Touring racks
Speaking of aluminum racks, I have a Topeak designed for disk brakes, like this: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/images/B000FIAVHE/ref=dp_image_0?ie=UTF8n=3375251s=sporting-goods It's beefy aluminum. The right angle attachments to clear the disc calipers seem to me to be a weak point. Does anyone have a (n educated, even, perhaps, based on experience) opinion about the durability of this design? Question 2: Is there any way to attach say a Tubus Logo to a disk braked bike? Question 3: lastly, since the Blackburn Expedition is the grandfather of modern touring racks: is there really any deficiency in a good aluminum rack compared to steel? Or is steel just more expensive ...? -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
[RBW] Re: Wanted: Touring racks
Ben, congrats on the bike. When is your trip? I am planning to take most of that same route this July. Might we cross paths? -jason -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
[RBW] Re: Rapha has love for Rivendell
On Jun 4, 10:13 am, JoelMatthews joelmatth...@mac.com wrote: Is that Riv's niche? I always thought it was making lugged steel bikes. as I said, Joel - it's about more than products. did you not read that part of my post? to be clear and keep things in the context, there is a niche of riders who identify with Rivendell very strongly. there is a niche of riders who also identify with Rapha. these are the niches I assumed Mike was referring to - that seemed rather obvious to me. and I agree that they wouldn't exist to the extent that they do without companies like riv and rapha. The correct term would be Fallacy of Accident. You are assuming some general similarities make the two alike. no, I didn't. you wrote that there is no similar philosophy. I provided 3 specific, not general, examples of core values (philosophy) they have in common - appreciation for steel bikes, craftsmanship/ quality and style. It is certanly not objective to say Rapha and Riv share similar business philosophies. I didn't write anything about *business* philosophies. is that the philosophy you were referring to? if so, I misconstrued. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
[RBW] Re: Wanted: Touring racks
I do not have this bike any longer, but believe the Tubus is a Logo: http://oswaldcycleworks.com/mjolwhole.jpg As I recall, Tom used spacers on one side. Sorry, I do not have any close up photos. It worked fine though. On Jun 4, 9:31 am, PATRICK MOORE bertin...@gmail.com wrote: Speaking of aluminum racks, I have a Topeak designed for disk brakes, like this: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/images/B000FIAVHE/ref=dp_image_0?ie=... It's beefy aluminum. The right angle attachments to clear the disc calipers seem to me to be a weak point. Does anyone have a (n educated, even, perhaps, based on experience) opinion about the durability of this design? Question 2: Is there any way to attach say a Tubus Logo to a disk braked bike? Question 3: lastly, since the Blackburn Expedition is the grandfather of modern touring racks: is there really any deficiency in a good aluminum rack compared to steel? Or is steel just more expensive ...? -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
RE: [RBW] Re: Wanted: Touring racks
There are always Bruce Gordon Cycles Racks. Check them out at: http://www.bgcycles.com/racks.html Regards, Bruce Gordon www.brucegordoncycles.blogspot.com -Original Message- From: rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com [mailto:rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Beth H Sent: Friday, June 04, 2010 7:22 AM To: RBW Owners Bunch Subject: [RBW] Re: Wanted: Touring racks On Jun 3, 6:46 pm, thebvo the...@gmail.com wrote: So, I guess I'll need some quality racks. I've been looking for steel, and I'd like to stay away from aluminum, unless someone can sway me otherwise. . -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
Re: [RBW] Re: Wanted: Touring racks
And it's a lovely fixed gear! Spacers Duh! Thanks. PAM On Fri, Jun 4, 2010 at 8:48 AM, JoelMatthews joelmatth...@mac.com wrote: I do not have this bike any longer, but believe the Tubus is a Logo: http://oswaldcycleworks.com/mjolwhole.jpg As I recall, Tom used spacers on one side. Sorry, I do not have any close up photos. It worked fine though. On Jun 4, 9:31 am, PATRICK MOORE bertin...@gmail.com wrote: Speaking of aluminum racks, I have a Topeak designed for disk brakes, like this: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/images/B000FIAVHE/ref=dp_image_0?ie=... It's beefy aluminum. The right angle attachments to clear the disc calipers seem to me to be a weak point. Does anyone have a (n educated, even, perhaps, based on experience) opinion about the durability of this design? Question 2: Is there any way to attach say a Tubus Logo to a disk braked bike? Question 3: lastly, since the Blackburn Expedition is the grandfather of modern touring racks: is there really any deficiency in a good aluminum rack compared to steel? Or is steel just more expensive ...? -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.comrbw-owners-bunch%2bunsubscr...@googlegroups.com . For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en. -- Patrick Moore Albuquerque, NM For professional resumes, contact Patrick Moore, ACRW at resumespecialt...@gmail.com -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
[RBW] Re: Rapha has love for Rivendell
and I agree that they wouldn't exist to the extent that they do without companies like riv and rapha. Perhaps if we limit the niche to one in the United States (which would seem curious, given Rapha is a British company and sells a lot of its product in Europe) you could say tweed bags and shellaced tape would not exist but for Riv. They were around well before Rive in Europe - especially the UK and France - and certainly in Japan where there has long been a French bike cult. no, I didn't. you wrote that there is no similar philosophy. I provided 3 specific, not general, examples of core values (philosophy) they have in common - appreciation for steel bikes, craftsmanship/ quality and style. I believe the three categories you provide remain far too broad to create an objective tautology. I concede some others here appear convinced. I didn't write anything about *business* philosophies. is that the philosophy you were referring to? if so, I misconstrued. Rapha and Riv are businesses. What other philosophy would they have? GP appears to follow what he likes and hopes enough agree that he and his employees make a living. Rapha uses a well conceived and executed marketing plan to convince people to pay more for merchandise it makes than similar merchandise made by its competitors. On Jun 4, 9:46 am, Patrick in VT swing4...@gmail.com wrote: On Jun 4, 10:13 am, JoelMatthews joelmatth...@mac.com wrote: Is that Riv's niche? I always thought it was making lugged steel bikes. as I said, Joel - it's about more than products. did you not read that part of my post? to be clear and keep things in the context, there is a niche of riders who identify with Rivendell very strongly. there is a niche of riders who also identify with Rapha. these are the niches I assumed Mike was referring to - that seemed rather obvious to me. and I agree that they wouldn't exist to the extent that they do without companies like riv and rapha. The correct term would be Fallacy of Accident. You are assuming some general similarities make the two alike. no, I didn't. you wrote that there is no similar philosophy. I provided 3 specific, not general, examples of core values (philosophy) they have in common - appreciation for steel bikes, craftsmanship/ quality and style. It is certanly not objective to say Rapha and Riv share similar business philosophies. I didn't write anything about *business* philosophies. is that the philosophy you were referring to? if so, I misconstrued. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
[RBW] Re: Wanted: Touring racks
There are always Bruce Gordon Cycles Racks. Check them out at:http://www.bgcycles.com/racks.html Regards, Bruce Gordonwww.brucegordoncycles.blogspot.com To the OP: One thing you will never get with Tubus that you will with the Bruce Gordon is ready access to the person who actually makes the rack (unless you speak German and can figure out how to get past the Ortlieb - tubus is an Ortlieb brand - receptionist.) It is certainly a big plus for BG. On Jun 4, 9:52 am, Bruce Gordon bgcyc...@svn.net wrote: There are always Bruce Gordon Cycles Racks. Check them out at:http://www.bgcycles.com/racks.html Regards, Bruce Gordonwww.brucegordoncycles.blogspot.com -Original Message- From: rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com [mailto:rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Beth H Sent: Friday, June 04, 2010 7:22 AM To: RBW Owners Bunch Subject: [RBW] Re: Wanted: Touring racks On Jun 3, 6:46 pm, thebvo the...@gmail.com wrote: So, I guess I'll need some quality racks. I've been looking for steel, and I'd like to stay away from aluminum, unless someone can sway me otherwise. .- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
RE: [RBW] Re: Wanted: Touring racks
Another difference is that Bruce Gordon Racks are made in the USA - NOT China, where the Tubus racks are made. Regards, Bruce Gordon -Original Message- From: rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com [mailto:rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of JoelMatthews Sent: Friday, June 04, 2010 8:03 AM To: RBW Owners Bunch Subject: [RBW] Re: Wanted: Touring racks There are always Bruce Gordon Cycles Racks. Check them out at:http://www.bgcycles.com/racks.html Regards, Bruce Gordonwww.brucegordoncycles.blogspot.com To the OP: One thing you will never get with Tubus that you will with the Bruce Gordon is ready access to the person who actually makes the rack (unless you speak German and can figure out how to get past the Ortlieb - tubus is an Ortlieb brand - receptionist.) It is certainly a big plus for BG. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
Re: [RBW] Re: Rapha has love for Rivendell
On Jun 4, 2010, at 8:58 AM, JoelMatthews joelmatth...@mac.com wrote: GP appears to follow what he likes and hopes enough agree that he and his employees make a living. Rapha uses a well conceived and executed marketing plan to convince people to pay more for merchandise it makes than similar merchandise made by its competitors. I always hear this, but with a few exceptions, Rapha stuff isn't more expensive than their competitors. A quick glance through the latest Colorado Cyclist catalog shows many shorts and jerseys priced higher. Rapha seems to be in the middle of the range of the fancy brands (Capo, Castelli, Campy, Assos, Panache). Just like Rivendell, you can spend more, less, or even a lot less and get gear that does the job. We had a slow night at work and a perused the Rapha site and I don't really see the crazy hyperbole everyone talks about. The product pages seemed mostly descriptive. Of course they were positive, they're selling the stuff. The other articles and features seemed to be mostly about the joys of riding. I liked this quote: Over and over I watch my peers complain right up until the moment where the clap of the cleat into the pedal resonates through their body. And then it is all gone. The complaints and problems that previously occupied the mind have winked out into nonexistence, and in their stead, the foolish grins of people enjoying themselves. I still see the two companies as strikingly similar. Reading both their respective propaganda, I find that occasionally I want to buy their products, but more often, it makes me want to go out and ride. Of course my friends would say that making me want to ride is like shooting fish in a barrel! Sorry for Keeping this Rapha thread going. Cheers, Ryan, Riv Rapha Fan -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
[RBW] Re: Rapha has love for Rivendell
We had a slow night at work and a perused the Rapha site and I don't really see the crazy hyperbole everyone talks about. The product pages seemed mostly descriptive. Of course they were positive, they're selling the stuff. The other articles and features seemed to be mostly about the joys of riding. My reference to the hyperbole concerns their bike show booths, videos and magazine ads. I expect any sensible on line sales company will avoid putting too much silly stuff on their sales web site. That sort of thing tends to slow the buying process, driving away customers. On Jun 4, 10:30 am, rswat...@me.com wrote: On Jun 4, 2010, at 8:58 AM, JoelMatthews joelmatth...@mac.com wrote: GP appears to follow what he likes and hopes enough agree that he and his employees make a living. Rapha uses a well conceived and executed marketing plan to convince people to pay more for merchandise it makes than similar merchandise made by its competitors. I always hear this, but with a few exceptions, Rapha stuff isn't more expensive than their competitors. A quick glance through the latest Colorado Cyclist catalog shows many shorts and jerseys priced higher. Rapha seems to be in the middle of the range of the fancy brands (Capo, Castelli, Campy, Assos, Panache). Just like Rivendell, you can spend more, less, or even a lot less and get gear that does the job. We had a slow night at work and a perused the Rapha site and I don't really see the crazy hyperbole everyone talks about. The product pages seemed mostly descriptive. Of course they were positive, they're selling the stuff. The other articles and features seemed to be mostly about the joys of riding. I liked this quote: Over and over I watch my peers complain right up until the moment where the clap of the cleat into the pedal resonates through their body. And then it is all gone. The complaints and problems that previously occupied the mind have winked out into nonexistence, and in their stead, the foolish grins of people enjoying themselves. I still see the two companies as strikingly similar. Reading both their respective propaganda, I find that occasionally I want to buy their products, but more often, it makes me want to go out and ride. Of course my friends would say that making me want to ride is like shooting fish in a barrel! Sorry for Keeping this Rapha thread going. Cheers, Ryan, Riv Rapha Fan -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
[RBW] sti shifters
so. I'm just now able to ride my bike again since breaking a bone in my right elbow and doing some soft-tissue damage. I've ridden the atlantis with albatross bars, the kogswell p-58 with noodles and bar end shifters and the burley tandem with sti shifters. And I've found a new reason to not like sti shifters. If you're still a bit sore or damaged in the tendons in your elbow then, moving your fingers in that motion necessary to shift an sti shifter is a little bit painful and definitely tiring. useless trivia, from me to you. -sv -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
[RBW] Dirt Rag - Bicycle Industry Insider Profile
Featured in this week's profile is Justin Kline of Princeton Tec. When asked who he would choose to profile next, Justin answers Grant Peterson. And viola, GP is going to be featured next week. I figured some folks on this list would be interested in checking it out. Shaun Meehan -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
[RBW] Re: Dirt Rag - Bicycle Industry Insider Profile
On Fri, Jun 4, 2010 at 10:59 AM, Shaun Meehan meehan.sh...@gmail.com wrote: Featured in this week's profile is Justin Kline of Princeton Tec. When asked who he would choose to profile next, Justin answers Grant Peterson. And viola, GP is going to be featured next week. I figured some folks on this list would be interested in checking it out. Shaun Meehan Of course I forgot to attach the link! Ugh! http://www.dirtragmag.com/blogarific/bicycle-industry-insider-profile-justin-kline/ -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
[RBW] Re: Wanted: Touring racks
+1 for Bruce Gordon racks-- they are beautiful. Tubus are nice too(and I have'em) but IMO not in the same league. Off topic: be sure to go north to south. Going south to north is like swimming upstream, possible but not as enjoyable. Cheers! cm -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
[RBW] Re: Wanted: Touring racks
+1 on Bruce Gordon rack. I think the racks are better looking, strong, and made in US. On Jun 4, 8:15 am, Bruce Gordon bgcyc...@svn.net wrote: Another difference is that Bruce Gordon Racks are made in the USA - NOT China, where the Tubus racks are made. Regards, Bruce Gordon -Original Message- From: rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com [mailto:rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of JoelMatthews Sent: Friday, June 04, 2010 8:03 AM To: RBW Owners Bunch Subject: [RBW] Re: Wanted: Touring racks There are always Bruce Gordon Cycles Racks. Check them out at:http://www.bgcycles.com/racks.html Regards, Bruce Gordonwww.brucegordoncycles.blogspot.com To the OP: One thing you will never get with Tubus that you will with the Bruce Gordon is ready access to the person who actually makes the rack (unless you speak German and can figure out how to get past the Ortlieb - tubus is an Ortlieb brand - receptionist.) It is certainly a big plus for BG. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
[RBW] Re: Rapha has love for Rivendell
On Jun 4, 10:58 am, JoelMatthews joelmatth...@mac.com wrote: and I agree that they wouldn't exist to the extent that they do without companies like riv and rapha. Perhaps if we limit the niche . .. . and I agree that they wouldn't exist to the extent that they do without companies like riv and rapha. Perhaps if we limit the niche to one in the United States (which would seem curious, given Rapha is a British company and sells a lot of its product in Europe) you could say tweed bags and shellaced tape would not exist but for Riv. there's no need to limit it. and for the *third* time, it's not solely about product. to be clear, there is a distinct niche of riders that identifies with the Riv brand and rivvish cycling. same with Rapha. both engage in lifestyle branding (that's not to say they go about it the same way), and this helps to develop the niches they are helping to define and support - not sure why this is at all controversial. I believe the three categories you provide remain far too broad to create an objective tautology. I concede some others here appear convinced. please elaborate on why you believe my examples are subjective and/or illogical. core value - steel is real: no explanation needed for Riv. Sachs, Davidson, Bilenky, Lyon, Hunter, IF, Igleheart, et al. have made bicycles for the rapha continental team. it obviously appreciates the craft of framebuilding with steel and supports it. core value - quality: both have very high standards for what they sell. look at the time GP takes to do core value - style: no explanation needed. if anything is far too broad, it's the context in which we are discussing philosophy. Rapha and Riv are businesses. What other philosophy would they have? that's an interesting perspective. personally, as a cyclist, Riv and Rapha inspire me - they both remind me of why life on a bike is fun. they encourage me to try new things and take on challenges. seems to me that each has an underlying philosophy that informs their approach to cycling and the stuff they sell - which, in turn, informs my approach to cycling and the stuff I buy. i see this as separate from their approach, or philosophy, regarding business. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
[RBW] Re: Rapha has love for Rivendell
there's no need to limit it. and for the *third* time, it's not solely about product. to be clear, there is a distinct niche of riders that identifies with the Riv brand and rivvish cycling. same with Rapha. both engage in lifestyle branding (that's not to say they go about it the same way), and this helps to develop the niches they are helping to define and support - not sure why this is at all controversial. My issue was with the Rapha and Riv having some exclusive or at least a majority hold on the niche. A Japanese person riding a Toei, or a French person on a Berthoud may fully appreciate all that we here say is Rivvish while being completely unaware of the term - or possibly even the Riv brand, for that matter. core value - steel is real: no explanation needed for Riv. Sachs, Davidson, Bilenky, Lyon, Hunter, IF, Igleheart, et al. have made bicycles for the rapha continental team. it obviously appreciates the craft of framebuilding with steel and supports it. Rapha is also involved with Carbon and Ti manufacturers as well. Riv is strictly steel. core value - quality: both have very high standards for what they sell. look at the time GP takes to do There are many companies that make quality products. It does not mean they share Riv's philosophical outlook. core value - style: no explanation needed. The same as above. personally, as a cyclist, Riv and Rapha inspire me - they both remind me of why life on a bike is fun. they encourage me to try new things and take on challenges. seems to me that each has an underlying philosophy that informs their approach to cycling and the stuff they sell - which, in turn, informs my approach to cycling and the stuff I buy. i see this as separate from their approach, or philosophy, regarding business. Designing, hiring manufacturers, selling merchandise, buying merchandise, is what the retail business is all about. The fact you like it - as do many, including myself - does not make it any less a business. I would say it makes it a good business. I will also continue to argue that Riv and Rapha while both successful business models with overlapping market are nonetheless very different business models. On Jun 4, 12:27 pm, Patrick in VT swing4...@gmail.com wrote: On Jun 4, 10:58 am, JoelMatthews joelmatth...@mac.com wrote: and I agree that they wouldn't exist to the extent that they do without companies like riv and rapha. Perhaps if we limit the niche . .. . and I agree that they wouldn't exist to the extent that they do without companies like riv and rapha. Perhaps if we limit the niche to one in the United States (which would seem curious, given Rapha is a British company and sells a lot of its product in Europe) you could say tweed bags and shellaced tape would not exist but for Riv. there's no need to limit it. and for the *third* time, it's not solely about product. to be clear, there is a distinct niche of riders that identifies with the Riv brand and rivvish cycling. same with Rapha. both engage in lifestyle branding (that's not to say they go about it the same way), and this helps to develop the niches they are helping to define and support - not sure why this is at all controversial. I believe the three categories you provide remain far too broad to create an objective tautology. I concede some others here appear convinced. please elaborate on why you believe my examples are subjective and/or illogical. core value - steel is real: no explanation needed for Riv. Sachs, Davidson, Bilenky, Lyon, Hunter, IF, Igleheart, et al. have made bicycles for the rapha continental team. it obviously appreciates the craft of framebuilding with steel and supports it. core value - quality: both have very high standards for what they sell. look at the time GP takes to do core value - style: no explanation needed. if anything is far too broad, it's the context in which we are discussing philosophy. Rapha and Riv are businesses. What other philosophy would they have? that's an interesting perspective. personally, as a cyclist, Riv and Rapha inspire me - they both remind me of why life on a bike is fun. they encourage me to try new things and take on challenges. seems to me that each has an underlying philosophy that informs their approach to cycling and the stuff they sell - which, in turn, informs my approach to cycling and the stuff I buy. i see this as separate from their approach, or philosophy, regarding business. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
[RBW] Re: Rapha has love for Rivendell
Something appears as marketing or even propaganda if it doesn't match up with one's sensibilities. If a message does match up with one's tastes preferences, then it just appears as common sense. The good thing about Riv, Rapha, and anything else bike-related - is that it has a material use-value. So go out and use the stuff and enjoy! Aaron and I will be sporting Riv, Rapha, and Woolistic at the SDR Kitchen Creek 200k tomorrow. We'll report on the ride, and how the marketing influenced our experience :) Esteban San Diego, Calif. On Jun 4, 10:57 am, JoelMatthews joelmatth...@mac.com wrote: there's no need to limit it. and for the *third* time, it's not solely about product. to be clear, there is a distinct niche of riders that identifies with the Riv brand and rivvish cycling. same with Rapha. both engage in lifestyle branding (that's not to say they go about it the same way), and this helps to develop the niches they are helping to define and support - not sure why this is at all controversial. My issue was with the Rapha and Riv having some exclusive or at least a majority hold on the niche. A Japanese person riding a Toei, or a French person on a Berthoud may fully appreciate all that we here say is Rivvish while being completely unaware of the term - or possibly even the Riv brand, for that matter. core value - steel is real: no explanation needed for Riv. Sachs, Davidson, Bilenky, Lyon, Hunter, IF, Igleheart, et al. have made bicycles for the rapha continental team. it obviously appreciates the craft of framebuilding with steel and supports it. Rapha is also involved with Carbon and Ti manufacturers as well. Riv is strictly steel. core value - quality: both have very high standards for what they sell. look at the time GP takes to do There are many companies that make quality products. It does not mean they share Riv's philosophical outlook. core value - style: no explanation needed. The same as above. personally, as a cyclist, Riv and Rapha inspire me - they both remind me of why life on a bike is fun. they encourage me to try new things and take on challenges. seems to me that each has an underlying philosophy that informs their approach to cycling and the stuff they sell - which, in turn, informs my approach to cycling and the stuff I buy. i see this as separate from their approach, or philosophy, regarding business. Designing, hiring manufacturers, selling merchandise, buying merchandise, is what the retail business is all about. The fact you like it - as do many, including myself - does not make it any less a business. I would say it makes it a good business. I will also continue to argue that Riv and Rapha while both successful business models with overlapping market are nonetheless very different business models. On Jun 4, 12:27 pm, Patrick in VT swing4...@gmail.com wrote: On Jun 4, 10:58 am, JoelMatthews joelmatth...@mac.com wrote: and I agree that they wouldn't exist to the extent that they do without companies like riv and rapha. Perhaps if we limit the niche . .. . and I agree that they wouldn't exist to the extent that they do without companies like riv and rapha. Perhaps if we limit the niche to one in the United States (which would seem curious, given Rapha is a British company and sells a lot of its product in Europe) you could say tweed bags and shellaced tape would not exist but for Riv. there's no need to limit it. and for the *third* time, it's not solely about product. to be clear, there is a distinct niche of riders that identifies with the Riv brand and rivvish cycling. same with Rapha. both engage in lifestyle branding (that's not to say they go about it the same way), and this helps to develop the niches they are helping to define and support - not sure why this is at all controversial. I believe the three categories you provide remain far too broad to create an objective tautology. I concede some others here appear convinced. please elaborate on why you believe my examples are subjective and/or illogical. core value - steel is real: no explanation needed for Riv. Sachs, Davidson, Bilenky, Lyon, Hunter, IF, Igleheart, et al. have made bicycles for the rapha continental team. it obviously appreciates the craft of framebuilding with steel and supports it. core value - quality: both have very high standards for what they sell. look at the time GP takes to do core value - style: no explanation needed. if anything is far too broad, it's the context in which we are discussing philosophy. Rapha and Riv are businesses. What other philosophy would they have? that's an interesting perspective. personally, as a cyclist, Riv and Rapha inspire me - they both remind me of why life on a bike is fun. they encourage me to try new things and take on challenges. seems to me that
[RBW] Re: Rapha has love for Rivendell
Sorry, I've been out riding my bike... what did I miss in this ongoing conversation? -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
[RBW] Re: FS: 61cm Bleriot Frameset (Santa Fe, NM)
Bike is sold. Thanks! -tim becker On May 30, 10:00 pm, tim becker beckertro...@gmail.com wrote: Hey all, Sorry for the spam. I'm selling my 61 cm Bleriot frameset w/ headset and bb. Asking $675 w/ shipping included to a good home. (US) I'm the second owner, rode it for a couple of months before I got my Atlantis but I haven't done much with it since then. Treated w/ boeshield, stored inside, no rust, a few nicks in the paint in the usual spots. pictures here:http://picasaweb.google.com/beckertronix/RivendellBleriot?feat=direct... email me off list with any questions. thanks, Tim Becker Santa Fe, NM beckertronix at gmail dot com -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
[RBW] Re: 67cm AHH double top tube inquiry
Make the tubes big enough, and even a tandem doesn't need mid-tubes: http://www.thetandemlink.com/Images/Calfee/calfee_rolfs1a.jpg I don't think a solo built with tubes that big would look too graceful, though. On a frame as big as a 68, an arrangement like the Hunquapillar might start to make sense. Just my opinion, I ride a 56 and don't need the extra stiffness myself. Bill On Jun 4, 7:11 am, Seth Vidal skvi...@gmail.com wrote: On Fri, Jun 4, 2010 at 9:57 AM, Larry Powers lapower...@hotmail.com wrote: Maybe this is a better question for a frame builder but would wider tubes solve the problem just as well as a double top tube? My steel tandem uses slightly oversized tubing to add some rigidity. Given the size of the bike the wider tubes look appropriate. On something like a 66 or 68 frame I would think that 31.8 tubing might allow a standard diamond frame to be used. Unless your tandem is very very old you should have some sort of cross-support tube in the middle of it going from the top of the head tube, normally, to the bottom of the stoker's seat tube. like this one:http://www.flickr.com/photos/skvidal/2673426270/ but it'd easiest to ask a framebuilder, I suspect. Bilenky, bob brown cycles both build tandems. -sv -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
[RBW] Re: Rapha has love for Rivendell
Beyond the fact that they are both in the bicycling business, I personally don't see any similarity between the aesthetic or 'philosophy' of Rapha and Rivendell.One sells expensive bike clothing made in China for the 'serious cyclist' (their words)*, and the other seems to encourage riding in the same clothing, made in the USA, for what it's worth, that you'd use to go to a barbecue, or work, or on a guided tour of the California State Railroad museum.To me, Rapha has about as much to do with bicycle commuting as Banana Republic has to do with going on safari.No offense meant to anyone who enjoys their stuff, but that's just how the marketing comes off to me. *to quote from Rapha's site: Road racing is the toughest and most beautiful sport in the world and everything Rapha does is designed to celebrate the glory and suffering unique to road riders Road racing requires stamina, strength, focus and fortitude, yet the rewards can be huge – the more effort you put in the greater those rewards become -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
Re: [RBW] Re: Rapha has love for Rivendell
I just received a Rapha cycling cap in the mail. You may recall it being advertised on this list recently. My 1st purchase of Rapha anything. (I was given a Rapha water bottle, but that's another story.) Anyway, the interior label, 70mm x 100mm in size and sewn to the underside of the crown, states, Sartorial excellence for the discerning cyclist. Essential Performance Roadwear. Now let me say that the cap is well designed, exhibits high manufacturing quality and feels great on my head. I would never buy one of these for ANY of the reasons printed on the label however. I like that it looks good, feels good, and will be a good Spring/Fall cap. It will not affect my cycling performance one iota, or make me feel natty. It sells for $60 with an enameled pin (mine did not come with a pin) I also have two Rivendell wool caps, both in orange and they are the older design and the current one. These Wooly Stubbies are unlined, but are also well made and the advertiding says so. the embroidery seems to perfectly match the bill color. The proportions are perfect; the stitching, neat and consistent. We wear them all year long. Btw, I wear mine in the Summer too. Wool is excellent for sweat management. These caps are $30 each and are of simpler construction, and no fancy label. I think both caps are probably worth what they sell for, and will give good service when used as intended. Riv's sales pitch is far more to my liking, but that's why over the past few years, I've accumulated lots of Riv stuff, and no Rapha stuff before this. And this only because as a used item and with a lower price, I could justify to myself. From: newenglandbike matthiasbe...@gmail.com To: RBW Owners Bunch rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com Sent: Fri, June 4, 2010 7:12:09 PM Subject: [RBW] Re: Rapha has love for Rivendell Beyond the fact that they are both in the bicycling business, I personally don't see any similarity between the aesthetic or 'philosophy' of Rapha and Rivendell.One sells expensive bike clothing made in China for the 'serious cyclist' (their words)*, and the other seems to encourage riding in the same clothing, made in the USA, for what it's worth, that you'd use to go to a barbecue, or work, or on a guided tour of the California State Railroad museum. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
Re: [RBW] Re: Dirt Rag - Bicycle Industry Insider Profile
I like the tag, you're it feature! On Fri, Jun 4, 2010 at 9:08 AM, Shaun Meehan meehan.sh...@gmail.com wrote: On Fri, Jun 4, 2010 at 10:59 AM, Shaun Meehan meehan.sh...@gmail.com wrote: Featured in this week's profile is Justin Kline of Princeton Tec. When asked who he would choose to profile next, Justin answers Grant Peterson. And viola, GP is going to be featured next week. I figured some folks on this list would be interested in checking it out. Shaun Meehan Of course I forgot to attach the link! Ugh! http://www.dirtragmag.com/blogarific/bicycle-industry-insider-profile-justin-kline/ -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.comrbw-owners-bunch%2bunsubscr...@googlegroups.com . For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en. -- Cheers, David Redlands, CA Bicycling is a big part of the future. It has to be. There is something wrong with a society that drives a car to workout in a gym. ~Bill Nye, scientist guy -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
[RBW] hiawatha cyclery prints
Just saw this today http://hiawathacyclery.blogspot.com/2010/06/ok-we-lied.html so if you didn't get one before - you might want to try now. I have no affiliation with HC - I just liked the print. -sv -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
[RBW] Cranks and Brakes FS
Hi, I have some items that are good for Rivendell's that I'd like to part with. TA Carmina 167.5 crankset with nearly new Phil Wood BB. English threads, 110mm adapter, 50 x 36 rings. $190 shipped to USA. Is is about 1/3 of what it cost today. Photos: http://www.flickr.com/photos/jamespatrickvaliensi/sets/72157624205891008/ TA Cyclotouriste 170mm Crankset with 50 x 34 rings, pedal washers, and Dust caps. Brand new, and Laser engraved. $310 shipped to USA. These cranks are not made anymore, but the chainrings are. Photos: http://www.flickr.com/photos/jamespatrickvaliensi/sets/72157624205857404/ SPR Mr Grumpy cantilever brake-set, brand new. $100 shipped to USA. This is 1/2 price, I've always wanted to use these but never got a bike that could use them. Another set of Cantilever brakes, front and rear, brand new. $45.00 shipped to USA. I'm not sure where these came from. but they are nice and pretty inexpensive. Photos: http://www.flickr.com/photos/jamespatrickvaliensi/sets/72157624081475875/ Thanks for looking! James Valiensi, PE Northridge, CA H818.775.1847 M.818.585.1796 -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
