[RBW] Re: Seeking feedback: smart looking wool cycle shorts

[Paul Y]

Many thanks to everyone for all your invaluable feedback, this has been a 
very encouraging response for me to keep going with this project. 

Regarding material:
The main reason to use a wool blend vs. 100% wool has been that the wool 
blends are lighter weight to deal with the warm weather here. Since these 
will be made to order, the purchaser will have a choice in material, and 
100% wool could be an option.
Generally the blends seem lighter and less prickly than any 100% wool I've 
seen available here, and still dry fast and resist odor. I know merino 
could be the ideal 100% wool, but that would make this a much more 
expensive product. 

Regarding the sit bone area:
I've been wondering what to do about the wear marks, and with this post it 
seems clear that finding a solution to reinforce that area will be 
necessary. Because one of the primary objectives are that the shorts look 
smart, I'm avoiding the more popular synthetic materials for the short, and 
also don't want to visibly add nylon. Wool seems to get "polished" by the 
saddle as shown in the pictures. I am thinking with the next prototype, to 
try adding elbow patches to the sit bone area. 
 
@Lee : What a great DIY photo set you put together; thanks for sharing that.

@Shoji : Yes, these have a gusseted crotch, unless we have different 
understandings of what a guesseted crotch is - there is enough range of 
movement for the toughest hike-a-bikes I've found here, enough to do yoga 
even!

@Deacon : I'd never come across worsted wool before - thanks I will look 
into it.

@bwphoto : I've never seen these old cycling shorts before. Would you have 
a photo to share? These shorts seem to work just fine without a chamois, so 
I am quite certain to keep them chamois-less, as that is pretty much a 
feature with these! But I am curious about these shorts you used to wear.

@Patrick & Shoji : Great tip about plumbers crack, I will be sure to get a 
high back into the next prototype. 

@Patrick : Thanks for giving me so much information. I'll look at adding an 
additional rear pocket. You'll be glad to know that the front pockets are 
deep. 


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[RBW] New fenders and Lumos

[Brian Hanson]

I put hammered Honjos on the old Miyata, as well as a nice light up front.
 The 45mm fenders clear the Compass 42mm 26" tires - amazingly.  The Lumos
has a nice side throw, but I haven't had a chance to really tell if it's a
big improvement over the Cyo IQ or Edelux.  In any case, the bike feels
upscaled now...

http://flic.kr/s/aHsjJDCGkS

Brian Hanson
Seattle, WA

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[RBW] Re: 120mm cassette hubs

[Philip Williamson]

Or people who want to kludge a Legolas out of their Quickbeam...

Philip
www.biketinker.com

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Re: [RBW] Re: 120mm cassette hubs

[Philip Williamson]

I have a seven speed cassette (with spacer) on my 135 OLD gravel roadster bike. 
Yep, works great. Better than the nine speed cassette: easier friction shifts 
and a wider range.

Philip
www.biketinker.come

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[RBW] Re: 120mm cassette hubs

[Jim Thill - Hiawatha Cyclery]

I'm not too interested in assuming a bunch of hypotheticals and 
conjecturing based on those assumptions. I was really just pointing out 
that 120 mm cassette hubs aren't terribly related to Rivendell bikes. That 
product is probably more appropriate for somebody who wants the benefits of 
a cassette on a 40-year-old frame. I concede that some Riv people are into 
40-year-old frames.

On Monday, September 23, 2013 12:47:46 PM UTC-5, Bill Lindsay wrote:
>
> Jim
>
> Since you know the history as well as most people, let me ask your opinion 
> on a hypothetical:
>
> We both know Grant was an early low-Q-factor guy.  We both remember he 
> resisted going from 126 to 130 on the RB's, and resisted going from 130 to 
> 135 on the MBs.  He reluctantly went wider.  Rivendell pretty consistently 
> has said that anything more than 7 cogs in back is unnecessary, and is even 
> preferable if you want to use friction shifting.  
>
> So, the hypothetical is:  
>
> Assume 120mm, 126mm, 130mm and 135mm rear hubs were widely available at 
> all price and quality levels
> Assume all length cassette bodies were available for every number of rear 
> cassette cogs from 1 to 11 cogs 
> Assume cassette cogs were available to build all conceivable custom 
> combinations 
> Assume nice narrow Q-factor cranksets were available in singles doubles 
> and triples at all price points and quality levels
>
> If all those things were true, do you think Grant would be designing 
> almost exclusively 135mm (Roadeo=130) rear end bikes?  Or do you think 
> Grant would be saying that narrow Q-factor is valuable and you don't need 
> so many cogs?  Would Rivendell be selling a 2x5 tenspeed?  Or a 3x5 
> 15-speed?  I don't know for sure.  
>
> On Sunday, September 22, 2013 9:52:59 PM UTC-7, Jim Thill - Hiawatha 
> Cyclery wrote:
>>
>> Fortunately, most Rivs are 130 or 135 mm!
>>
>> On Sunday, September 22, 2013 10:17:47 AM UTC-5, Bill Lindsay wrote:
>>>
>>> Compass Bikes just posted the availability of new Grand Boris branded 5 
>>> and 6 speed cassette hubs for 120mm rear spacing.  That's a pretty exciting 
>>> development for a lot of folks.  They have the cog sets as well.  I hope 
>>> the freewheel hoarders aren't angry about it.  
>>>
>>> If I understand the manufacturing relationships, we'll probably see 
>>> these hubs under a couple other labels as well
>>>
>>

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Re: [RBW] Re: San Diego Bay Ride Not Sure If It Counts

[Tom Virgil]

You take care of yourself, Mike.  Please heal.  I look forward to rides 
with you, Curtis,the geographically unbounded Hugh, and whomever else we 
can lure down here (Evan?)

Agree with David that this is just a sweetheart route.  For anyone that is 
interested, here  is one rendition 
of the route.  We could do this most any time of the year.

Best Regards,

Tom

On Monday, September 23, 2013 6:05:00 PM UTC-7, Mike Schiller wrote:
>
> Curtis, it will have to be a few weeks out as I came down with the flu 
> yesterday. That on top of recovering from a nasty nerve virus. 
> I'll let you know when I'm well.
>
> ~mike
>
> On Monday, September 23, 2013 2:19:29 PM UTC-7, Curtis wrote:
>>
>> Mike,
>>
>> Would be great to ride with you.  Name a date and I will check my 
>> calendar.
>>
>>
>> On Mon, Sep 23, 2013 at 1:06 PM, Mike Schiller 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> looks like a normal beautiful day in San Diego.  I couldn't make your 
>>> ride Curtis, but I would like to do with you if it happens again.
>>>
>>> ~mike
>>> Carlsbad Ca.
>>>
>>>
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>>
>>

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[RBW] Re: Too small MB-3, need help with Dirt Drop, bar rec's

[Coconutbill]

I ride a 47 Hilsen and looking for a Bridgestone mountain bike in the 18' , 
or 49cm sort of realm 
If there is a bunch of sentiment attached and you are still hoping to make 
them workable bikes, I totally understand.
Other wise, there's a good chance I would be interested.

EvanS
Canyon Country, CA

>
>
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: San Diego Bay Ride Not Sure If It Counts

[cyclotourist]

Sounds like you won't make it Sat :(

On 9/23/13, Mike Schiller  wrote:
> Curtis, it will have to be a few weeks out as I came down with the flu
> yesterday. That on top of recovering from a nasty nerve virus.
> I'll let you know when I'm well.
>
> ~mike
>
> On Monday, September 23, 2013 2:19:29 PM UTC-7, Curtis wrote:
>>
>> Mike,
>>
>> Would be great to ride with you.  Name a date and I will check my
>> calendar.
>>
>>
>> On Mon, Sep 23, 2013 at 1:06 PM, Mike Schiller
>> 
>> > wrote:
>>
>>> looks like a normal beautiful day in San Diego.  I couldn't make your
>>> ride Curtis, but I would like to do with you if it happens again.
>>>
>>> ~mike
>>> Carlsbad Ca.
>>>
>>>
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>>
>>
>
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David

"it isn't a contest. Just enjoy the ride." - Seth Vidal

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Re: [RBW] Re: San Diego Bay Ride Not Sure If It Counts

[Mike Schiller]

Curtis, it will have to be a few weeks out as I came down with the flu 
yesterday. That on top of recovering from a nasty nerve virus. 
I'll let you know when I'm well.

~mike

On Monday, September 23, 2013 2:19:29 PM UTC-7, Curtis wrote:
>
> Mike,
>
> Would be great to ride with you.  Name a date and I will check my calendar.
>
>
> On Mon, Sep 23, 2013 at 1:06 PM, Mike Schiller 
> 
> > wrote:
>
>> looks like a normal beautiful day in San Diego.  I couldn't make your 
>> ride Curtis, but I would like to do with you if it happens again.
>>
>> ~mike
>> Carlsbad Ca.
>>
>>
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>
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: San Diego Bay Ride Not Sure If It Counts

[cyclotourist]

Need to put one of these together soon, such a great route!

On 9/23/13, Curtis McKenzie  wrote:
> Mike,
>
> Would be great to ride with you.  Name a date and I will check my calendar.
>
>
> On Mon, Sep 23, 2013 at 1:06 PM, Mike Schiller
> wrote:
>
>> looks like a normal beautiful day in San Diego.  I couldn't make your
>> ride
>> Curtis, but I would like to do with you if it happens again.
>>
>> ~mike
>> Carlsbad Ca.
>>
>>
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"it isn't a contest. Just enjoy the ride." - Seth Vidal

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[RBW] Suntour barcons

[Clayton]

I found this on my local craigslist if anyone is interested..Suntour 
Barcons! (I'm not a friction guy)...

http://bend.craigslist.org/bik/4084426248.html

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[RBW] Re: A weekend in the Methow Valley

[Cecily Walker]

Matt, that's good to know. I'm a better rider than I think! :D

On Monday, September 23, 2013 8:07:45 AM UTC-7, Matt Beebe wrote:
>
> Wow, that scenery is gorgeous, and nice report.Also, I consider having 
> to get off and walk your bike periodically to be a strong indicator that 
> you are doing things right  :)
>
>  
>
> On Monday, September 23, 2013 2:33:50 AM UTC-4, Cecily Walker wrote:
>>
>> A group of 7 friends and I took a long weekend trip to the Methow Valley 
>> in the North Cascades of Washington. Long before I got a Betty Foy, I 
>> dreamed of riding single track, but couldn't find much locally that wasn't 
>> very technical trails that required mountain bikes. My friend Kay, a 
>> seasoned mountain bike enthusiast, ensured me that the blue trails in the 
>> Okanogan National Forest would be a piece of cake for the Betty Foy, and 
>> she was right. 
>>
>> Here's a map of where we rode: 
>> http://www.mvsta.com//images/sunmap_summer.jpg
>>
>> It was my first time doing riding of this sort, and it took some getting 
>> used to. The trail was a mixture of large loose gravel, sandy soil, mud, 
>> and pine needles over hard packed dirt. To make matters worse, the 
>> osteoarthritis in my right knee really flared up a couple of days before 
>> the trip, and unfortunately the cortisone shot I had the day before my 
>> departure didn't do much for the inflammation. I was undaunted though.
>>
>> Friday morning dawned cool with cerulean blue skies with nary a cloud in 
>> sight. The layer of cool air was fairly shallow, because by the time we got 
>> our bikes unloaded from the car, things had warmed up enough for me to go 
>> on without a jacket. 
>>
>> We combined the Beaver Pond and Rodeo trails to do a loop around Beaver 
>> Lake. I had some trouble finding the right gear to match the ground 
>> conditions at first, but after about the first 20 minutes I seemed to get 
>> the hang of things. The only times I had to get off my bike were to push up 
>> a couple of short, steep inclines I didn't change gears quickly enough for, 
>> and to scale down a "rock garden" incline that Kay thought might be a bit 
>> much for a novice rider on Soma New Express tires. 
>>
>> Because I got out to the country and put the Betty Foy through her paces, 
>> I feel as if I'm finally a part of the Rivendell club. I'm sad to say that 
>> the summer single track season is rapidly coming to a close, but there's 
>> always next year!
>>
>> Here are a few photos from the weekend. We stopped a lot on the way to 
>> Winthrop, and were particularly taken with the views from Washington Pass. 
>> There's a photo of me riding singletrack in the set from the weekend: 
>>
>> http://www.flickr.com/photos/cecily/sets/72157635790163246/
>>
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: From bar ends to thumbies

[cyclotourist]

If Perry or anyone else has some thumbies they would like to sell
cheapish, please drop me a line!

On 9/23/13, Cecily Walker  wrote:
> I didn't move from bar end shifters, but the mechanic who built my bike
> recommended thumbies because he felt they were easier to work with for
> intown riding. He also mounted mine upside down because he said they'd be
> easier for me to work with on those days when my arthritis flares up and my
>
> hands aren't working so well. My front derailleur is friction, and my rear
> is indexed. They're positioned right above my hand grips, so I don't even
> have to take my hands off the grips to use the rear derailleur. I can just
> tap it with a knuckle and it moves.
>
> On Monday, September 23, 2013 4:33:05 AM UTC-7, Michael Hechmer wrote:
>>
>> Since retiring I have gradually moved my single bikes back from bar ends
>> to down shifters.  Now that I don't commute and rarely ride into heavy
>> town
>> traffic I find I prefer the speed and clean looks of DT shifters.  But the
>>
>> tandem is still bar end because my stoker doesn't like me letting go of
>> the
>> handle bars, and we're never or rarely needing to shift rapidly.  But I am
>>
>> considering switching these to thumbies.  Has anyone made this transition,
>>
>> especially with drop bars? With friction?  How did it go?  Do you like it
>>
>> better or worse?
>>
>> My wife has been enjoying the albatross bars on her half of the tandem and
>>
>> so we have been talking about also switching her single and if I do that
>> maybe I'll install thumbies there too.  Do people use this combination and
>>
>> how have they likes it?
>>
>> Michael
>>
>>
>>
>
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David

"it isn't a contest. Just enjoy the ride." - Seth Vidal

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[RBW] Re: From bar ends to thumbies

[Cecily Walker]

I didn't move from bar end shifters, but the mechanic who built my bike 
recommended thumbies because he felt they were easier to work with for 
intown riding. He also mounted mine upside down because he said they'd be 
easier for me to work with on those days when my arthritis flares up and my 
hands aren't working so well. My front derailleur is friction, and my rear 
is indexed. They're positioned right above my hand grips, so I don't even 
have to take my hands off the grips to use the rear derailleur. I can just 
tap it with a knuckle and it moves.

On Monday, September 23, 2013 4:33:05 AM UTC-7, Michael Hechmer wrote:
>
> Since retiring I have gradually moved my single bikes back from bar ends 
> to down shifters.  Now that I don't commute and rarely ride into heavy town 
> traffic I find I prefer the speed and clean looks of DT shifters.  But the 
> tandem is still bar end because my stoker doesn't like me letting go of the 
> handle bars, and we're never or rarely needing to shift rapidly.  But I am 
> considering switching these to thumbies.  Has anyone made this transition, 
> especially with drop bars? With friction?  How did it go?  Do you like it 
> better or worse?
>
> My wife has been enjoying the albatross bars on her half of the tandem and 
> so we have been talking about also switching her single and if I do that 
> maybe I'll install thumbies there too.  Do people use this combination and 
> how have they likes it?
>
> Michael
>
>
>

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[RBW] Re: From bar ends to thumbies

[Perry]

For drop bars, I can see it. For albas:

I've been riding albas for many years on various bikes--always with bar end 
shifters. Every year or so, I get the thumbies  bug, buy some Paul thumbies (I 
love Paul components), and set up a bike with them. Then a week or a month 
later, I go back to the bar ends. I sell the thumbie mounts cheap, only to get 
the bug again a year later and have to re-acquire them. I just 
mounted/unmounted some thumbies but this time, I'm keeping them in my parts box 
because it's getting expensive to keep buying high and selling them at a loss. 
;)

On albas, I can't think of any way that thumbies beat bar ends but lots of 
reasons why bar ends beat thumbies (more handlebar space, cleaner look, easier 
to shift with massive gloves/frozen fingers, less chance of flare up of carpal 
tunnel). So there's my 2 cents and yes, of course, ymmv (or your wife's for 
that matter).

• Perry 

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[RBW] Thinking about selling my Sam Hillborne

[Edwin W]

There is always interest, at the right price. 
It is too small for me but I have some friends here in Nashville that might be 
interested. At the right price. 
It is group policy to post things for sale with a price attached, which is why 
I am giving you a hard time. 
Attach a link to pictures, too, for people to get excited. 
 Yours in the Volunteer State,
Edwin 

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Re: [RBW] Re: 120mm cassette hubs

[Steve Palincsar]

On 09/23/2013 05:40 PM, Garth wrote:


Because One *can choose !

*If I prefer less wheel dish, and find the idea of a spacer redundant 
and unnecessary, that is my choice.


Do I have to buy any given frame someone makes as stock and try to 
"fit into it" ?  Of course not, I can choose it any way I wish. Why 
need parts be any different ?


There are 7 speed freehub bodies available.  Do they fit?


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Re: [RBW] Re: 120mm cassette hubs

[Garth]

Because One *can choose ! 

*If I prefer less wheel dish, and find the idea of a spacer redundant and 
unnecessary, that is my choice. 

Do I have to buy any given frame someone makes as stock and try to "fit 
into it" ?  Of course not, I can choose it any way I wish. Why need parts 
be any different ? 




On Monday, September 23, 2013 4:17:15 PM UTC-4, Steve Palincsar wrote:
>
> On 09/23/2013 04:03 PM, Garth wrote: 
> > 
> > If someone had the conviction to still build 7 speed cassette hubs in 
> > 135mm, I'd buy them today. 
>
> What is your issue with using a 135mm cassette hub with a spacer and a 7 
> speed cassette?  I've been doing that for years with my Kogswells, and 
> it works perfectly well. 
>
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: San Diego Bay Ride Not Sure If It Counts

[Curtis McKenzie]

Mike,

Would be great to ride with you.  Name a date and I will check my calendar.


On Mon, Sep 23, 2013 at 1:06 PM, Mike Schiller wrote:

> looks like a normal beautiful day in San Diego.  I couldn't make your ride
> Curtis, but I would like to do with you if it happens again.
>
> ~mike
> Carlsbad Ca.
>
>
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Re: [RBW] Re: 120mm cassette hubs

[Bill Lindsay]

"Do you remember what Eddy Merckx' favorite freewheel cogs were?"

I read somewhere, but cannot corroborate on the interwebs at the moment, 
that Eddy liked to run a 13/14/15/15/16 five speed freewheel, or something 
really similar to that.  He ran two cogs of the same size in the middle for 
chainline reasons.  That always cracked me up.  Talk about a corncob 
freewheel!

On Monday, September 23, 2013 12:46:46 PM UTC-7, Bill Lindsay wrote:
>
> ONLY 150?  ONLY 160?  Any q-factor zealot worth their salt would give both 
> of those numbers the same name:  "doing the splits!"  teehee!  :)  Joke! 
>  Playful!  Grin!
>
> You are mostly right that you can get pretty narrow with modern parts and 
> wide tires.  I too have a 10-sp rear end 130 OLD bike, with 650x42B tires, 
> metal fenders, 10mm clearance all around and 140mm Q (now that's deserving 
> of an ONLY haha grin!).  But at some point the thing that stops you from 
> going narrower is that your heel hits your R der or chainstay, or your 
> crankarm is too close to the chainstay, both of which get a little more 
> room with a narrower OLD.  The flipside is that you probably can go too 
> narrow, at least for chainline.  
>
> Trust me, I'm not in a big rush to order a custom 120mm rear end bike, nor 
> am I going to go snap up a 1960s Cinelli and do a restoration.  I think 
> what I was getting at was that Grant did stick with 6/7 cogs for a very 
> long time, with B-stone and early Riv.  More than 7 was just stupid and 
> superfluous.  8? ok, I guess that's only one too many, but 9 or 10 or 11? 
>  that's just crazy (or so the thinking went).  My hypothetical was that if 
> there were no component choice constraints, would he have stopped at 7?  I 
> think he might have.  And if he did stop at 7, would he still gone to 135? 
>  Maybe he would have, because it does yield a strong dishless rear wheel.   
>
> Patrick, you love your racer-history:  Do you remember what Eddy Merckx' 
> favorite freewheel cogs were?
> On Monday, September 23, 2013 11:03:49 AM UTC-7, Patrick Moore wrote:
>>
>> It's hard to analyze Grant's mind, since we are not Grant, but I say that 
>> it is possible to have both more cogs and less Q since OL spacing 
>> contributes relatively little to Q. 
>>
>> Q is determined mostly by crank arm angle and only relatively little by 
>> rear OL spacing. Hell, how wide apart your feet are is determined more by 
>> the type of pedal you use than by OL spacing -- after all, from 120 to 135 
>> is exactly 1.5 cm or .6 inch, and a wide platform pedal compared to, say, 
>> the Dura Ace SPDs I use, is more than that. I've run a 145 mm Phil spindle 
>> on a 135 OL frame with stays wide enough for 60s + fenders + mud, and the Q 
>> was only 150.
>>
>> I ran a 10 sp on my 130 spaced custom with a Q of 130. Now that was with 
>> a single ring on a Pro 5 Vis and a 113 mm bb spindl, but even a double 
>> would have meant a Q of no more than 115 -- and this on a rather wide 
>> stayed frame. Even the X2D or XD2 on the Fargo, which accepts 65 mm tires 
>> with fenders and gap, is only 160 mm, with room to take out at least 5 mm 
>> if not a whole cm, if only you could find the right bb and crank 
>> combination.
>>
>>
>>
>> On Mon, Sep 23, 2013 at 11:47 AM, Bill Lindsay  wrote:
>>
>>> Jim
>>>
>>> Since you know the history as well as most people, let me ask your 
>>> opinion on a hypothetical:
>>>
>>> We both know Grant was an early low-Q-factor guy.  We both remember he 
>>> resisted going from 126 to 130 on the RB's, and resisted going from 130 to 
>>> 135 on the MBs.  He reluctantly went wider.  Rivendell pretty consistently 
>>> has said that anything more than 7 cogs in back is unnecessary, and is even 
>>> preferable if you want to use friction shifting.  
>>>
>>> So, the hypothetical is:  
>>>
>>> Assume 120mm, 126mm, 130mm and 135mm rear hubs were widely available at 
>>> all price and quality levels
>>> Assume all length cassette bodies were available for every number of 
>>> rear cassette cogs from 1 to 11 cogs 
>>> Assume cassette cogs were available to build all conceivable custom 
>>> combinations 
>>> Assume nice narrow Q-factor cranksets were available in singles doubles 
>>> and triples at all price points and quality levels
>>>
>>> If all those things were true, do you think Grant would be designing 
>>> almost exclusively 135mm (Roadeo=130) rear end bikes?  Or do you think 
>>> Grant would be saying that narrow Q-factor is valuable and you don't need 
>>> so many cogs?  Would Rivendell be selling a 2x5 tenspeed?  Or a 3x5 
>>> 15-speed?  I don't know for sure.  
>>>
>>> On Sunday, September 22, 2013 9:52:59 PM UTC-7, Jim Thill - Hiawatha 
>>> Cyclery wrote:

 Fortunately, most Rivs are 130 or 135 mm!

 On Sunday, September 22, 2013 10:17:47 AM UTC-5, Bill Lindsay wrote:
>
> Compass Bikes just posted the availability of new Grand Boris branded 
> 5 and 6 speed cassette hubs for 120mm rear spacing.  That's a pretty

Re: [RBW] Re: 120mm cassette hubs

[Steve Palincsar]

On 09/23/2013 04:03 PM, Garth wrote:


If someone had the conviction to still build 7 speed cassette hubs in 
135mm, I'd buy them today.


What is your issue with using a 135mm cassette hub with a spacer and a 7 
speed cassette?  I've been doing that for years with my Kogswells, and 
it works perfectly well.


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[RBW] Re: 120mm cassette hubs

[Garth]

If someone had the conviction to still build 7 speed cassette hubs in 
135mm, I'd buy them today. Better yet, hubs that are customizable with 
different size bodies and axles. But the Mind is fickle  I want more 
... no , I want less ... I want this, that and the other.  Oh wait  
just what was it I wanted in the first place ?  Oh yes ... well , that wish 
has changed to this wish, then this to another that. And so the Mind goes 
round and round within itself. 

Fickle ;) 

No, I don't go along with "this is what the people wanted, or what the 
industry gave us or this or that trend" .  No excuses lol. Nope. It 
appears it's up to me as no one is going to give me what I want, but me ;)

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[RBW] Re: A weekend in the Methow Valley

[Cecily Walker]

Ha!  Sadly there isn't an interesting story for how the lake got it's name. 
The lake was formed by the Diablo 
Dam: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diablo_Dam

On Monday, September 23, 2013 6:15:51 AM UTC-7, Deacon Patrick wrote:
>
> Brilliant! What a wonderful first country ramble. How did Diablo Lake get 
> it's name? Seems like someone missed the mark on that one. Grin.
>
> With abandon,
> Patrick
>
> On Monday, September 23, 2013 12:33:50 AM UTC-6, Cecily Walker wrote:
>>
>> A group of 7 friends and I took a long weekend trip to the Methow Valley 
>> in the North Cascades of Washington. Long before I got a Betty Foy, I 
>> dreamed of riding single track, but couldn't find much locally that wasn't 
>> very technical trails that required mountain bikes. My friend Kay, a 
>> seasoned mountain bike enthusiast, ensured me that the blue trails in the 
>> Okanogan National Forest would be a piece of cake for the Betty Foy, and 
>> she was right. 
>>
>> Here's a map of where we rode: 
>> http://www.mvsta.com//images/sunmap_summer.jpg
>>
>> It was my first time doing riding of this sort, and it took some getting 
>> used to. The trail was a mixture of large loose gravel, sandy soil, mud, 
>> and pine needles over hard packed dirt. To make matters worse, the 
>> osteoarthritis in my right knee really flared up a couple of days before 
>> the trip, and unfortunately the cortisone shot I had the day before my 
>> departure didn't do much for the inflammation. I was undaunted though.
>>
>> Friday morning dawned cool with cerulean blue skies with nary a cloud in 
>> sight. The layer of cool air was fairly shallow, because by the time we got 
>> our bikes unloaded from the car, things had warmed up enough for me to go 
>> on without a jacket. 
>>
>> We combined the Beaver Pond and Rodeo trails to do a loop around Beaver 
>> Lake. I had some trouble finding the right gear to match the ground 
>> conditions at first, but after about the first 20 minutes I seemed to get 
>> the hang of things. The only times I had to get off my bike were to push up 
>> a couple of short, steep inclines I didn't change gears quickly enough for, 
>> and to scale down a "rock garden" incline that Kay thought might be a bit 
>> much for a novice rider on Soma New Express tires. 
>>
>> Because I got out to the country and put the Betty Foy through her paces, 
>> I feel as if I'm finally a part of the Rivendell club. I'm sad to say that 
>> the summer single track season is rapidly coming to a close, but there's 
>> always next year!
>>
>> Here are a few photos from the weekend. We stopped a lot on the way to 
>> Winthrop, and were particularly taken with the views from Washington Pass. 
>> There's a photo of me riding singletrack in the set from the weekend: 
>>
>> http://www.flickr.com/photos/cecily/sets/72157635790163246/
>>
>

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[RBW] Re: Northern East Bay Mixed Terrain Ride-- Sunday, October 6th

[Bill Lindsay]

DARN!  The Harding Elementary School Carnival is that day and I'm signed up 
to work a booth.  Bummer.  I'm not going on the ride.  

On Monday, September 23, 2013 12:27:05 PM UTC-7, Jeremy Till wrote:
>
> Just a bump, looking forward to the ride a couple of weeks.  I've had a 
> inquiry or two about rain plans, since we've officially had our first fall 
> rains here.  I'd say that rain won't necessarily cancel, but might turn the 
> ride into a much more road-oriented affair.  Here's hoping for clear 
> skies.  
>
> Let me know if you can make it!  
>
> On Saturday, September 7, 2013 9:24:13 AM UTC-7, Jeremy Till wrote:
>>
>> Hey Folks-
>>
>> I've had this idea since doing a mixed terrain ride down in Manny's home 
>> stomping grounds in the Southern East Bay, back in the beginning of June.  
>> Manny stopped by the shop where I work the other day to kick my ass into 
>> gear about it
>>
>> Northern East Bay Mixed Terrain Ride: Sunday, October 6th, 9:30am.  A 
>> ride in the classic Riv style, showing off the best the Oakland, Berkeley, 
>> and Richmond hills have to offer.  
>>
>> My thought is that we could congregate at a local coffee joint, the 
>> Fellini Coffeebar (attached to a restaurant called Pizza Moda), on the 
>> corner of University Avenue and Acton St. around 9:00am for coffee and 
>> pastries.  Fellini is three blocks south of the North Berkeley BART 
>> station, and there is ample free parking in the surrounding neighborhood 
>> for those that have to drive.  Around 9:30 or so we'll swing by the BART 
>> station to pick up any latecomers before heading for the hills.  
>>
>> My idea for the route is start in the south, heading up the classic East 
>> Bay road climb of Tunnel Rd.  A good warm-up and great views of the whole 
>> Bay Area.  From the top of Tunnel we'll hit up the trails in Sibley Volcano 
>> park, descending down to the bottom of Fish Ranch Rd.  From there, it's 
>> more road climbing on Fish Ranch and Grizzly Peak Blvd. to the summit of 
>> Grizzly Peak (great views of Mt. Diablo!) and the upper reaches of Tilden 
>> Park, before descending on trail down to the aptly named Inspiration Point 
>> on Wildcat Canyon Rd.  From there it's more trails down through Wildcat 
>> Canyon, heading north.  Depending on the time and how punchy we're feeling 
>> we'll loop back by climbing up to the paved Nimitz Way Trail, which returns 
>> us to Inspiration Point, and then back to Berkeley via Wildcat Canyon Rd. 
>> and Spruce St.  If people are interested there are tons of great options 
>> around Berkeley for post-ride refreshment.
>>
>> Truth be told, I haven't taken the time to map this out or calculate 
>> mileage or elevation change.  The route is probably short on mileage (maybe 
>> 30 or 40 something ?) but big on climbing (at least 2000'?), with most of 
>> the climbing happening in the first half of the ride.  Definitely bring 
>> food.  Luckily, there are many places along the route to refill on water.  
>> There are also many easy spots to bail back to Berkeley or Oakland if you 
>> need to cut it short for whatever reason. 
>>
>> The route is totally doable on any number of Riv-ish all-rounders.  
>> Definitely bring something with low gears for climbing.   The off-road 
>> portions are mostly fire trail, but can be quite steep and washboarded, so 
>> wider tires are definitely recommend.  I'll be doing it on my Long Haul 
>> Trucker with Alba bars and 700x42 file treads.  
>>
>> Please let me know if you're planning to come along so I have a sense of 
>> how many to expect and who too look for.  
>>
>> -Jeremy Till
>> Berkeley, CA
>>
>

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[RBW] Re: San Diego Bay Ride Not Sure If It Counts

[Mike Schiller]

looks like a normal beautiful day in San Diego.  I couldn't make your ride 
Curtis, but I would like to do with you if it happens again.

~mike
Carlsbad Ca.


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[RBW] Re: 120mm cassette hubs

[Philip Williamson]

Actually, it looks like the Compass version will be cheaper than the Sun 
XCD, judging by the equivalent 130mm hub on the SomaFab site.  

Soma has the full-width body 130mm Sun XCD cassette hubs for $240, and 
Compass will sell the rear short-body 120mm hub for $185, and a hub set for 
$265. I don't imagine the special 120mm hub from Sun XCD will be cheaper 
than the normal 130mm hub. 

Philip
www.philipwilliamson.com

On Monday, September 23, 2013 10:31:29 AM UTC-7, Philip Williamson wrote:
>
> This is something I've been looking forward to (in a cheaper Suntour 
> version) for a while, in order to quickly re-gear my fixed-gear porteur 
> bike. Clamp on shifters, an adapter claw, and the 120 spaced cassette wheel 
> would let me change between geared and fixed in two shakes of a lamb's 
> tail. For extra cheapness, I could just have a short section of chain and a 
> couple connector links, rather than a whole second chain. 
>
> Philip
> www.biketinker.com
>
> On Sunday, September 22, 2013 8:17:47 AM UTC-7, Bill Lindsay wrote:
>>
>> Compass Bikes just posted the availability of new Grand Boris branded 5 
>> and 6 speed cassette hubs for 120mm rear spacing.  That's a pretty exciting 
>> development for a lot of folks.  They have the cog sets as well.  I hope 
>> the freewheel hoarders aren't angry about it.  
>>
>> If I understand the manufacturing relationships, we'll probably see these 
>> hubs under a couple other labels as well
>>
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: 120mm cassette hubs

[Bill Lindsay]

ONLY 150?  ONLY 160?  Any q-factor zealot worth their salt would give both 
of those numbers the same name:  "doing the splits!"  teehee!  :)  Joke! 
 Playful!  Grin!

You are mostly right that you can get pretty narrow with modern parts and 
wide tires.  I too have a 10-sp rear end 130 OLD bike, with 650x42B tires, 
metal fenders, 10mm clearance all around and 140mm Q (now that's deserving 
of an ONLY haha grin!).  But at some point the thing that stops you from 
going narrower is that your heel hits your R der or chainstay, or your 
crankarm is too close to the chainstay, both of which get a little more 
room with a narrower OLD.  The flipside is that you probably can go too 
narrow, at least for chainline.  

Trust me, I'm not in a big rush to order a custom 120mm rear end bike, nor 
am I going to go snap up a 1960s Cinelli and do a restoration.  I think 
what I was getting at was that Grant did stick with 6/7 cogs for a very 
long time, with B-stone and early Riv.  More than 7 was just stupid and 
superfluous.  8? ok, I guess that's only one too many, but 9 or 10 or 11? 
 that's just crazy (or so the thinking went).  My hypothetical was that if 
there were no component choice constraints, would he have stopped at 7?  I 
think he might have.  And if he did stop at 7, would he still gone to 135? 
 Maybe he would have, because it does yield a strong dishless rear wheel.   

Patrick, you love your racer-history:  Do you remember what Eddy Merckx' 
favorite freewheel cogs were?
On Monday, September 23, 2013 11:03:49 AM UTC-7, Patrick Moore wrote:
>
> It's hard to analyze Grant's mind, since we are not Grant, but I say that 
> it is possible to have both more cogs and less Q since OL spacing 
> contributes relatively little to Q. 
>
> Q is determined mostly by crank arm angle and only relatively little by 
> rear OL spacing. Hell, how wide apart your feet are is determined more by 
> the type of pedal you use than by OL spacing -- after all, from 120 to 135 
> is exactly 1.5 cm or .6 inch, and a wide platform pedal compared to, say, 
> the Dura Ace SPDs I use, is more than that. I've run a 145 mm Phil spindle 
> on a 135 OL frame with stays wide enough for 60s + fenders + mud, and the Q 
> was only 150.
>
> I ran a 10 sp on my 130 spaced custom with a Q of 130. Now that was with a 
> single ring on a Pro 5 Vis and a 113 mm bb spindl, but even a double would 
> have meant a Q of no more than 115 -- and this on a rather wide stayed 
> frame. Even the X2D or XD2 on the Fargo, which accepts 65 mm tires with 
> fenders and gap, is only 160 mm, with room to take out at least 5 mm if not 
> a whole cm, if only you could find the right bb and crank combination.
>
>
>
> On Mon, Sep 23, 2013 at 11:47 AM, Bill Lindsay 
> > wrote:
>
>> Jim
>>
>> Since you know the history as well as most people, let me ask your 
>> opinion on a hypothetical:
>>
>> We both know Grant was an early low-Q-factor guy.  We both remember he 
>> resisted going from 126 to 130 on the RB's, and resisted going from 130 to 
>> 135 on the MBs.  He reluctantly went wider.  Rivendell pretty consistently 
>> has said that anything more than 7 cogs in back is unnecessary, and is even 
>> preferable if you want to use friction shifting.  
>>
>> So, the hypothetical is:  
>>
>> Assume 120mm, 126mm, 130mm and 135mm rear hubs were widely available at 
>> all price and quality levels
>> Assume all length cassette bodies were available for every number of rear 
>> cassette cogs from 1 to 11 cogs 
>> Assume cassette cogs were available to build all conceivable custom 
>> combinations 
>> Assume nice narrow Q-factor cranksets were available in singles doubles 
>> and triples at all price points and quality levels
>>
>> If all those things were true, do you think Grant would be designing 
>> almost exclusively 135mm (Roadeo=130) rear end bikes?  Or do you think 
>> Grant would be saying that narrow Q-factor is valuable and you don't need 
>> so many cogs?  Would Rivendell be selling a 2x5 tenspeed?  Or a 3x5 
>> 15-speed?  I don't know for sure.  
>>
>> On Sunday, September 22, 2013 9:52:59 PM UTC-7, Jim Thill - Hiawatha 
>> Cyclery wrote:
>>>
>>> Fortunately, most Rivs are 130 or 135 mm!
>>>
>>> On Sunday, September 22, 2013 10:17:47 AM UTC-5, Bill Lindsay wrote:

 Compass Bikes just posted the availability of new Grand Boris branded 5 
 and 6 speed cassette hubs for 120mm rear spacing.  That's a pretty 
 exciting 
 development for a lot of folks.  They have the cog sets as well.  I hope 
 the freewheel hoarders aren't angry about it.  

 If I understand the manufacturing relationships, we'll probably see 
 these hubs under a couple other labels as well

>>>  -- 
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Re: [RBW] Re: 120mm cassette hubs

[Patrick Moore]

It's hard to analyze Grant's mind, since we are not Grant, but I say that
it is possible to have both more cogs and less Q since OL spacing
contributes relatively little to Q.

Q is determined mostly by crank arm angle and only relatively little by
rear OL spacing. Hell, how wide apart your feet are is determined more by
the type of pedal you use than by OL spacing -- after all, from 120 to 135
is exactly 1.5 cm or .6 inch, and a wide platform pedal compared to, say,
the Dura Ace SPDs I use, is more than that. I've run a 145 mm Phil spindle
on a 135 OL frame with stays wide enough for 60s + fenders + mud, and the Q
was only 150.

I ran a 10 sp on my 130 spaced custom with a Q of 130. Now that was with a
single ring on a Pro 5 Vis and a 113 mm bb spindl, but even a double would
have meant a Q of no more than 115 -- and this on a rather wide stayed
frame. Even the X2D or XD2 on the Fargo, which accepts 65 mm tires with
fenders and gap, is only 160 mm, with room to take out at least 5 mm if not
a whole cm, if only you could find the right bb and crank combination.



On Mon, Sep 23, 2013 at 11:47 AM, Bill Lindsay  wrote:

> Jim
>
> Since you know the history as well as most people, let me ask your opinion
> on a hypothetical:
>
> We both know Grant was an early low-Q-factor guy.  We both remember he
> resisted going from 126 to 130 on the RB's, and resisted going from 130 to
> 135 on the MBs.  He reluctantly went wider.  Rivendell pretty consistently
> has said that anything more than 7 cogs in back is unnecessary, and is even
> preferable if you want to use friction shifting.
>
> So, the hypothetical is:
>
> Assume 120mm, 126mm, 130mm and 135mm rear hubs were widely available at
> all price and quality levels
> Assume all length cassette bodies were available for every number of rear
> cassette cogs from 1 to 11 cogs
> Assume cassette cogs were available to build all conceivable custom
> combinations
> Assume nice narrow Q-factor cranksets were available in singles doubles
> and triples at all price points and quality levels
>
> If all those things were true, do you think Grant would be designing
> almost exclusively 135mm (Roadeo=130) rear end bikes?  Or do you think
> Grant would be saying that narrow Q-factor is valuable and you don't need
> so many cogs?  Would Rivendell be selling a 2x5 tenspeed?  Or a 3x5
> 15-speed?  I don't know for sure.
>
> On Sunday, September 22, 2013 9:52:59 PM UTC-7, Jim Thill - Hiawatha
> Cyclery wrote:
>>
>> Fortunately, most Rivs are 130 or 135 mm!
>>
>> On Sunday, September 22, 2013 10:17:47 AM UTC-5, Bill Lindsay wrote:
>>>
>>> Compass Bikes just posted the availability of new Grand Boris branded 5
>>> and 6 speed cassette hubs for 120mm rear spacing.  That's a pretty exciting
>>> development for a lot of folks.  They have the cog sets as well.  I hope
>>> the freewheel hoarders aren't angry about it.
>>>
>>> If I understand the manufacturing relationships, we'll probably see
>>> these hubs under a couple other labels as well
>>>
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[RBW] Re: Northern East Bay Mixed Terrain Ride-- Sunday, October 6th

[Jeremy Till]

Just a bump, looking forward to the ride a couple of weeks.  I've had a 
inquiry or two about rain plans, since we've officially had our first fall 
rains here.  I'd say that rain won't necessarily cancel, but might turn the 
ride into a much more road-oriented affair.  Here's hoping for clear 
skies.  

Let me know if you can make it!  

On Saturday, September 7, 2013 9:24:13 AM UTC-7, Jeremy Till wrote:
>
> Hey Folks-
>
> I've had this idea since doing a mixed terrain ride down in Manny's home 
> stomping grounds in the Southern East Bay, back in the beginning of June.  
> Manny stopped by the shop where I work the other day to kick my ass into 
> gear about it
>
> Northern East Bay Mixed Terrain Ride: Sunday, October 6th, 9:30am.  A ride 
> in the classic Riv style, showing off the best the Oakland, Berkeley, and 
> Richmond hills have to offer.  
>
> My thought is that we could congregate at a local coffee joint, the 
> Fellini Coffeebar (attached to a restaurant called Pizza Moda), on the 
> corner of University Avenue and Acton St. around 9:00am for coffee and 
> pastries.  Fellini is three blocks south of the North Berkeley BART 
> station, and there is ample free parking in the surrounding neighborhood 
> for those that have to drive.  Around 9:30 or so we'll swing by the BART 
> station to pick up any latecomers before heading for the hills.  
>
> My idea for the route is start in the south, heading up the classic East 
> Bay road climb of Tunnel Rd.  A good warm-up and great views of the whole 
> Bay Area.  From the top of Tunnel we'll hit up the trails in Sibley Volcano 
> park, descending down to the bottom of Fish Ranch Rd.  From there, it's 
> more road climbing on Fish Ranch and Grizzly Peak Blvd. to the summit of 
> Grizzly Peak (great views of Mt. Diablo!) and the upper reaches of Tilden 
> Park, before descending on trail down to the aptly named Inspiration Point 
> on Wildcat Canyon Rd.  From there it's more trails down through Wildcat 
> Canyon, heading north.  Depending on the time and how punchy we're feeling 
> we'll loop back by climbing up to the paved Nimitz Way Trail, which returns 
> us to Inspiration Point, and then back to Berkeley via Wildcat Canyon Rd. 
> and Spruce St.  If people are interested there are tons of great options 
> around Berkeley for post-ride refreshment.
>
> Truth be told, I haven't taken the time to map this out or calculate 
> mileage or elevation change.  The route is probably short on mileage (maybe 
> 30 or 40 something ?) but big on climbing (at least 2000'?), with most of 
> the climbing happening in the first half of the ride.  Definitely bring 
> food.  Luckily, there are many places along the route to refill on water.  
> There are also many easy spots to bail back to Berkeley or Oakland if you 
> need to cut it short for whatever reason. 
>
> The route is totally doable on any number of Riv-ish all-rounders.  
> Definitely bring something with low gears for climbing.   The off-road 
> portions are mostly fire trail, but can be quite steep and washboarded, so 
> wider tires are definitely recommend.  I'll be doing it on my Long Haul 
> Trucker with Alba bars and 700x42 file treads.  
>
> Please let me know if you're planning to come along so I have a sense of 
> how many to expect and who too look for.  
>
> -Jeremy Till
> Berkeley, CA
>

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Re: [RBW] FS: Thinking about selling my Sam Hillborne

[Patrick Moore]

Just a thought: I too sold a Sam because it didn't fit my needs, but, OTOH,
I did fill the niche with two bikes, a Rambouillet for longer rides and
capacity for panniers and groceries; and the Fargo for dirt, and either for
the purely hypothetical touring I never do. (In the interim I tried to fill
the niche with an old Herse, but that too didn't fit and was sold). If I
didn't have these two, the Sam would be a nice split between them. You
could always increase your mileage!

As an all rounder, biased for pavement rather than dirt, I think the Sam is
an excellent bike. I've suffered from seller's remorse myself. For what
it's worth.

Please post photos of the Serotta!


On Mon, Sep 23, 2013 at 11:43 AM, Bruce Baker  wrote:

> I have a specialized tri cross that allows me to ride the road and trails
> and getting ready to purchase a vintage titanium serotta.  These two bikes
> seems  to be the ride I am looking for
> and the Sam has been in the stable unridden for the last year.  I used to
> ride the Sam to the farmers market and the greenways.  I ride about 1500
> miles a year.
> So I am thinking about selling just because I am not using very much and
> maybe it should go to someone else at this point.
> Just sayin
> Bruce
>
>
> On Mon, Sep 23, 2013 at 12:59 PM, Patrick Moore wrote:
>
>> Curious: what has changed that you no longer want it?
>>
>>
>> On Mon, Sep 23, 2013 at 10:59 AM, Bruce Baker  wrote:
>>
>>> Hi everyone just trying to get a feel for potentially selling my
>>> "rivendell" package.  My interests have changed thought I would post here
>>> first to see if there was any interest.  I have a 56 cm single top tube Sam
>>> Hillborne with white industry urban pedals with VO leather toeclips.  Along
>>> with the bike I have a  Mark's mini rack, Nigel Smythe Seat pouch (green
>>> tweed), Zimbale small trunk sack, and a frost river Gunflint trail seat
>>> bag. I want to sell all as a package.  If there is interest we'll talk
>>> price.
>>> I'm located in Knoxville,TN
>>> Thanks,
>>> Bruce
>>>
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>>
>>
>>
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[RBW] Re: Morgan Territory to Diablo ride 9/29

[Jim M.]

On Monday, September 16, 2013 10:27:38 PM UTC-7, Manuel Acosta wrote:
>
> Looking to do a mixed terrain ride from Concord BART through Morgan 
> Territory and over the backside of DIablo.
> This ride is stemming from wanting to see the damage done by the recent 
> fire on Mt.Diablo and later on hoping to take pictures of the recovery.
>

I'll try to make the ride. 

I was up at Green Ranch yesterday for a look. Still smelled smoky but 
breathing seemed okay. Rode down the unburned side and hit most of the 
legal singletrack. Took a couple pictures of the burn: 
http://www.flickr.com/photos/20986098@N04/sets/72157635807439413/ 

jim m
wc ca

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Re: [RBW] Re: 120mm cassette hubs

[Patrick Moore]

As long as you have the correct spacers, you can always buy loose cogs and
roll your own.


On Mon, Sep 23, 2013 at 12:35 PM, rob markwardt wrote:

> I think these are realy cool looking and would work great, but I'd be more
> concerned about  the supply of the new 5 speed cassettes than I would
> old freewheels. There must have been millions of freewheels cranked out
> over the years.  I'm guessing the rush to buy this new hub will be limited
> at best and as much as I love my old 120mm spaced bikes I realize I'm in
> the huge minority.
>
>
>

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[RBW] Re: 120mm cassette hubs

[rob markwardt]

I think these are realy cool looking and would work great, but I'd be more 
concerned about  the supply of the new 5 speed cassettes than I would 
old freewheels. There must have been millions of freewheels cranked out 
over the years.  I'm guessing the rush to buy this new hub will be limited 
at best and as much as I love my old 120mm spaced bikes I realize I'm in 
the huge minority.  
 
 

On Monday, September 23, 2013 7:57:57 AM UTC-7, Bill Lindsay wrote:

> Brian
>
> That supply of freewheels and even hubs does exist on the ebay market, but 
> it will eventually dry up.  Now maybe even that market might get watered 
> down and keep the prices low.  
>
> Compass claimed these are aimed at people who own a nice 50s - 70s racing 
> bike, which typically have great clearances.  You've got your classic 
> racing bike set up correctly with tubulars.  The bike rides great but you 
> are concerned about flatting out on the road or just damaging a nice 
> tubular wheelset.  Now it's easier to set up a nice set of clincher wheels 
> to make your classic racing bike both a rider and a display bike.  
>
> They also make it possible for a maniacal Q-factor zealot to spec a custom 
> frame around 120mm OLD and get an ultra narrow q-factor.  
>
> On Monday, September 23, 2013 5:25:49 AM UTC-7, Brian Campbell wrote:
>>
>> I used a Suntour Ultra 6 speed freewheel. I had no trouble finding one on 
>> ebay that was brand new for about $40. 46/42/28 triple up front. Not sure 
>> why you would need a whole new wheel set unless you wanted one.
>>
>

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[RBW] Re: 120mm cassette hubs

[Bill Lindsay]

Jim

Since you know the history as well as most people, let me ask your opinion 
on a hypothetical:

We both know Grant was an early low-Q-factor guy.  We both remember he 
resisted going from 126 to 130 on the RB's, and resisted going from 130 to 
135 on the MBs.  He reluctantly went wider.  Rivendell pretty consistently 
has said that anything more than 7 cogs in back is unnecessary, and is even 
preferable if you want to use friction shifting.  

So, the hypothetical is:  

Assume 120mm, 126mm, 130mm and 135mm rear hubs were widely available at all 
price and quality levels
Assume all length cassette bodies were available for every number of rear 
cassette cogs from 1 to 11 cogs 
Assume cassette cogs were available to build all conceivable custom 
combinations 
Assume nice narrow Q-factor cranksets were available in singles doubles and 
triples at all price points and quality levels

If all those things were true, do you think Grant would be designing almost 
exclusively 135mm (Roadeo=130) rear end bikes?  Or do you think Grant would 
be saying that narrow Q-factor is valuable and you don't need so many cogs? 
 Would Rivendell be selling a 2x5 tenspeed?  Or a 3x5 15-speed?  I don't 
know for sure.  

On Sunday, September 22, 2013 9:52:59 PM UTC-7, Jim Thill - Hiawatha 
Cyclery wrote:
>
> Fortunately, most Rivs are 130 or 135 mm!
>
> On Sunday, September 22, 2013 10:17:47 AM UTC-5, Bill Lindsay wrote:
>>
>> Compass Bikes just posted the availability of new Grand Boris branded 5 
>> and 6 speed cassette hubs for 120mm rear spacing.  That's a pretty exciting 
>> development for a lot of folks.  They have the cog sets as well.  I hope 
>> the freewheel hoarders aren't angry about it.  
>>
>> If I understand the manufacturing relationships, we'll probably see these 
>> hubs under a couple other labels as well
>>
>

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[RBW] WTB: Slicker Sack for plat-rack

[Adam Kimball]

Shoulda bought one when Riv was making them.  I bought the plat-rack but 
never the bag.  If you have a bag and don't use it - I could!  Let me know.

-Adam

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[RBW] Re: Barefoot Friendly Pedals

[Deacon Patrick]

I pulled the trigger on VP Vice pedals, for the common pin bolt (I hope) 
and the thicker/longer axel.

With abandon, Patrick

On Sunday, September 22, 2013 4:17:37 PM UTC-6, justin...@gmail.com wrote:
>
> I would try the VP-Vice for this! The "pins" are just bog standard bolts. 
> Easy to replace and find flat heads. See here: 
> http://oceanaircycles.com/2013/04/22/vp-vice-and-001-pedal-comparison/
>
> -J
>
> On Sunday, September 22, 2013 10:58:46 AM UTC-4, Deacon Patrick wrote:
>>
>> Wonderful to hear, Pam. I've wondered about the Grip Kings. I presume the 
>> ball of your foot is down in the concave slope, toes resting on the 
>> top/front grips? Or are you midfood pedaling? I midfoot pedal. My feet are 
>> 12 , so gorilla's get envious of these beasties. Grin. VFFs never 
>> worked well for me, though it took me running 200 miles in them to figure 
>> that out. I'm THAT thick. Here are a few pics to show pedal placement:
>> http://www.flickr.com/photos/32311885@N07/9863133784/
>> http://www.flickr.com/photos/32311885@N07/9422980161/
>> http://www.flickr.com/photos/32311885@N07/9295761124/
>>
>> I "toe clench" to avoid toe flossing by brambles and grasses when it's 
>> narrow trail.
>>
>> With abandon,
>> Patrick
>>
>> On Saturday, September 21, 2013 9:08:39 PM UTC-6, pam wrote:
>>>
>>> I have the Grip Kings and ride in Vibram Five Fingers - have for the 
>>> past 4 years - probably over 10,000 miles.  I had the sneaker pedals.  I 
>>> think for barefoot the sneaker pedals would be slightly better.  I've tried 
>>> riding barefoot with Grip Kings but need a thin sole to really push down 
>>> hard on the pedal - I guess I'm a masher not a spinner.  I'll try the 
>>> sneaker pedals barefoot and will let you know but the platform is slightly 
>>> smaller.  I have a small foot so that helps - Womens' Size 6.  Hope that 
>>> helps.
>>>
>>>
>>> On Friday, April 19, 2013 9:27:37 AM UTC-4, Deacon Patrick wrote:

 Question upfront: how barefoot friendly are the pedals you ride? I'd 
 love input on all pedals, but am specifically wondering about both the VP 
 thin Gripster and MKS Grip King Rivendell offers.

 Relavant détails:
 -- I ride barefoot or in thin leather moccasins (when cold requires) 
 because of the increased proprioception (feedback from the feet that lets 
 the body know where it is in space) I require due to brain stem damage and 
 resultant vertigo.
 -- I am possibly acquiring a second bike (fixie) and thus in need of a 
 second pair of barefoot friendly pedals.
 -- I have and love my oak woodie Bullseye Pedals on my Hunga. These are 
 perhaps the ideal barefoot pedal.
 -- I'm doubtful about the clip less platform pedal set up from Bike 
 Tinker because of the inherent, albeit slight, rotational play inherent to 
 clipless.
 -- I live and run mountain trails barefoot or moccasined, so my feet 
 are well acclimated to rough/uneven surfaces; however, my experience with 
 pedals tells me that on rides longer than 2-3 hours, the foot gets tender 
 from the same pressure points.
 -- The pedal to beat (aside from the oak woodies) is the MKS Touring 
 pedal with rubber blocks. I have a pair with the outer "rings" filed down 
 a 
 bit.
 -- I ride mostly midfoot on the pedal.

 -- One thought on "possibly worth trying" is the Gripster pedals with a 
 thin Vibram soling (which I have) somehow screwed into the cleat treads 
 with broad flathead screws. Any suggestions here greatly appreciated.

 Thanks for your input!

 With abandon,
 Patrick

 *www.MindYourHeadCoop.org*
 *www.OurHolyConception.org*
  


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Re: [RBW] FS: Thinking about selling my Sam Hillborne

[Patrick Moore]

Curious: what has changed that you no longer want it?


On Mon, Sep 23, 2013 at 10:59 AM, Bruce Baker  wrote:

> Hi everyone just trying to get a feel for potentially selling my
> "rivendell" package.  My interests have changed thought I would post here
> first to see if there was any interest.  I have a 56 cm single top tube Sam
> Hillborne with white industry urban pedals with VO leather toeclips.  Along
> with the bike I have a  Mark's mini rack, Nigel Smythe Seat pouch (green
> tweed), Zimbale small trunk sack, and a frost river Gunflint trail seat
> bag. I want to sell all as a package.  If there is interest we'll talk
> price.
> I'm located in Knoxville,TN
> Thanks,
> Bruce
>
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Re: [RBW] Re: 120mm cassette hubs

[Ron Mc]

at some point it becomes all about what components are available.  The 
current norm of 11 to 32 9- and 10-speed cassettes, and 46/30 compact 
cranksets pretty much dictates your frame building.  I don't think we'll 
see 120mm wide road bikes back on the market.  

On Monday, September 23, 2013 1:09:41 PM UTC-5, Patrick Moore wrote:
>
> I meant to say: "... but even a double would have meant a Q of no more 
> than 132 mm with a 115 mm spindle" -- which is what I have on my Ram.
>
>>  
>> I ran a 10 sp on my 130 spaced custom with a Q of 130. Now that was with 
>> a single ring on a Pro 5 Vis and a 113 mm bb spindl, but even a double 
>> would have meant a Q of no more than 115 -
>>
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[RBW] Re: 120mm cassette hubs

[Philip Williamson]

This is something I've been looking forward to (in a cheaper Suntour 
version) for a while, in order to quickly re-gear my fixed-gear porteur 
bike. Clamp on shifters, an adapter claw, and the 120 spaced cassette wheel 
would let me change between geared and fixed in two shakes of a lamb's 
tail. For extra cheapness, I could just have a short section of chain and a 
couple connector links, rather than a whole second chain. 

Philip
www.biketinker.com

On Sunday, September 22, 2013 8:17:47 AM UTC-7, Bill Lindsay wrote:
>
> Compass Bikes just posted the availability of new Grand Boris branded 5 
> and 6 speed cassette hubs for 120mm rear spacing.  That's a pretty exciting 
> development for a lot of folks.  They have the cog sets as well.  I hope 
> the freewheel hoarders aren't angry about it.  
>
> If I understand the manufacturing relationships, we'll probably see these 
> hubs under a couple other labels as well
>

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Re: [RBW] FS: Thinking about selling my Sam Hillborne

[Bruce Baker]

I have a specialized tri cross that allows me to ride the road and trails
and getting ready to purchase a vintage titanium serotta.  These two bikes
seems  to be the ride I am looking for
and the Sam has been in the stable unridden for the last year.  I used to
ride the Sam to the farmers market and the greenways.  I ride about 1500
miles a year.
So I am thinking about selling just because I am not using very much and
maybe it should go to someone else at this point.
Just sayin
Bruce


On Mon, Sep 23, 2013 at 12:59 PM, Patrick Moore  wrote:

> Curious: what has changed that you no longer want it?
>
>
> On Mon, Sep 23, 2013 at 10:59 AM, Bruce Baker  wrote:
>
>> Hi everyone just trying to get a feel for potentially selling my
>> "rivendell" package.  My interests have changed thought I would post here
>> first to see if there was any interest.  I have a 56 cm single top tube Sam
>> Hillborne with white industry urban pedals with VO leather toeclips.  Along
>> with the bike I have a  Mark's mini rack, Nigel Smythe Seat pouch (green
>> tweed), Zimbale small trunk sack, and a frost river Gunflint trail seat
>> bag. I want to sell all as a package.  If there is interest we'll talk
>> price.
>> I'm located in Knoxville,TN
>> Thanks,
>> Bruce
>>
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>
>
>
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Re: [RBW] Re: 120mm cassette hubs

[Patrick Moore]

I meant to say: "... but even a double would have meant a Q of no more than
132 mm with a 115 mm spindle" -- which is what I have on my Ram.

>
> I ran a 10 sp on my 130 spaced custom with a Q of 130. Now that was with a
> single ring on a Pro 5 Vis and a 113 mm bb spindl, but even a double would
> have meant a Q of no more than 115 -
>
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[RBW] Re: Seeking feedback: smart looking wool cycle shorts

[bwphoto]

Great idea! Back in the '60s and up until the late ''70s and '80s merino 
wool cycling shorts were the [primary choice of many of us. In the early 
'70s my ex along with the wives of some of our cycling pals created 
patterns for cycling shorts made of merino wool/nylon blend for stretch, 
the crotch was double layer with a real chamois. I wore those sorts 
throughout the '70s, '80s until they finally gave out in the early '90s. 
Unlike the diaper lined Lycra ones now they extremely comfortable 
regardless of the environment I rode through from Pacific NW rain to 
eastern Oregon desert heat. 

It was a sad day when the last pair finally gave out. The real chamois was 
there not for padding but to eliminate chafing, together with a generous 
coat of chamois cream.  While I currently wear loose shorts around own ( I 
like pockets because I can't trust myself to remember to grab my billfold 
and phone when I head into a store) and I always wear a liner short under 
the baggy ones because I like to have a home for my boys and I find cotton 
undies absorbs to much sweat.

Anyway, I'd buy your shorts and you might want to think about resurrecting 
the old wool and real chamois version, I'm sure I'm not the only one who 
wold like to something other than the current choices.

On Monday, September 23, 2013 10:43:38 AM UTC-5, Deacon Patrick wrote:
>
> I very much like the idea, Paul, and second the desire for wool breeches 
> (knickers) with full range of motion built in. A few thoughts:
>
> -- would worsted wool show less wear?
> -- wool blend? Why not go 100% wool?
>
> With abandon,
> Patrick
>
> On Monday, September 23, 2013 5:52:57 AM UTC-6, Paul Y wrote:
>>
>> Hi all,
>>
>> I'm looking for some feedback on my pet project - cycling shorts inspired 
>> by Grant's writings and also the posts of several on this group. 
>> I had my prototype of these shorts made at the tailor's about 3 months 
>> ago and have put about a thousand kilometers on them. 
>> I have to say I am very pleased, and hope to bring these shorts to market 
>> as a custom fitted, made-to-order product. 
>>
>> Link to flickr 
>> photoset
>>
>> Any comments would be greatly appreciated!
>>
>> Paul
>>
>

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[RBW] Thinking about selling my Sam Hillborne

[Bruce Baker]

Hi everyone just trying to get a feel for potentially selling my
"rivendell" package.  My interests have changed thought I would post here
first to see if there was any interest.  I have a 56 cm single top tube Sam
Hillborne with white industry urban pedals with VO leather toeclips.  Along
with the bike I have a  Mark's mini rack, Nigel Smythe Seat pouch (green
tweed), Zimbale small trunk sack, and a frost river Gunflint trail seat
bag. I want to sell all as a package.  If there is interest we'll talk
price.
I'm located in Knoxville,TN
Thanks,
Bruce

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Re: [RBW] Seeking feedback: smart looking wool cycle shorts

[Patrick Moore]

Paul -- IMO, wool is better left to winter wear, for its insulating
qualities. The lighter wool fabrics I've used for riding pants tend to wear
more quickly than cotton or synthetics of equal weight, while you wouldn't
want to use heavier wool in hot weather. I have some relatively inexpensive
nylon canvas knickers from Nashbar and the fabric is very nice and would be
very good for summer shorts. I also use shorts of tightly woven cotton
fabric -- one pair in particular is so tightly woven it feels like a
synthetic -- and these work well too.

I'd suggest shorts made from synthetic or mixed fabric, and wool for
knickers or long pants (with ankle zippers), these two latter to have
double seats and -- if you want to be fancy -- windstopper lining in the
front. I've had several pairs of wool pants converted to knickers for
winter riding and that works very well.

Whatever pants you make, please, O Please! make them with a waist that
comes up high in the back. So many otherwise good cycling-specific riding
pants -- Bicycle Fixations shorts and knickers, the older style MUSA
shorts, long pants, and knickers -- are cut with too low a rise and too
short a rear, and I hate the feeling of exposed skin between jersey and
waistband -- and it's uncomfortable, too. Make them high rise with even
higher rise in the back, like good riding tights and padded shorts.

And, no cargo pockets on the thighs -- who wants keys bouncing around at
each pedal stroke? But do add buttoned rear pockets and deepish side
pockets -- I've got an otherwise nice pair of Ibis riding shorts (high in
the back!!!) that has only two shallow slit side pockets and a tiny zip
pocket on the left thigh -- where do I put my bulky bandana? Or my cell
phone if one side pocket has keys, the other wallet or cleat covers or cash?

Elastic in back of waistband, but also belt loops with the all important
rear center one included.

DO NOT use snap for closure -- another defect of the Ibis -- it pops open
when you lean forward. Use hook and eye or button.

Keep us informed.

What I'd buy:

Summer pants of synthetic or a mix with the right pockets and cut.

Winter pants of wool with adequate pockets and slim cut, with tapered and
zippered lower legs.

Wool knickers, ditto, tapered or gussetted at knee, +4, with velcro or
other adjustable cinch at knee.



 wrote:
>
> Hi all,
>
> I'm looking for some feedback on my pet project - cycling shorts inspired
by Grant's writings and also the posts of several on this group.
> I had my prototype of these shorts made at the tailor's about 3 months
ago and have put about a thousand kilometers on them.
> I have to say I am very pleased, and hope to bring these shorts to market
as a custom fitted, made-to-order product.
>
> Link to flickr photoset
>
> Any comments would be greatly appreciated!--
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[RBW] Re: 120mm cassette hubs

[Garth]

http://www.compasscycle.com/hub_gb_hf.html


*Note:* The cassette bodies are made from aluminum, and should be used with 
> high-end cassettes that have a carrier hub for all but the smallest three 
> cogs. 
>
>- Shimano/SRAM-compatible 
>(8-, 9-, 10-speed) 
>- Campagnolo-compatible 
>(10-speed) 
>- 130 mm rear spacing 
>
>  
>

This is stating then it is for 5,6 or 7 speeds ?  It appears so. 

Wish they had it in 135 though. 

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[RBW] FS: Thinking about selling my Sam Hillborne

[Bruce Baker]

Hi everyone just trying to get a feel for potentially selling my
"rivendell" package.  My interests have changed thought I would post here
first to see if there was any interest.  I have a 56 cm single top tube Sam
Hillborne with white industry urban pedals with VO leather toeclips.  Along
with the bike I have a  Mark's mini rack, Nigel Smythe Seat pouch (green
tweed), Zimbale small trunk sack, and a frost river Gunflint trail seat
bag. I want to sell all as a package.  If there is interest we'll talk
price.
I'm located in Knoxville,TN
Thanks,
Bruce

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[RBW] Re: Seeking feedback: smart looking wool cycle shorts

[Shoji Takahashi]

Hi Paul,
Looks nice. Did you consider a gusseted crotch? or does the current 
seamless design offer a large range of motion?
Is the back cut high enough to prevent plumber's crack?

Thanks! Shoji

On Monday, September 23, 2013 7:52:57 AM UTC-4, Paul Y wrote:
>
> Hi all,
>
> I'm looking for some feedback on my pet project - cycling shorts inspired 
> by Grant's writings and also the posts of several on this group. 
> I had my prototype of these shorts made at the tailor's about 3 months ago 
> and have put about a thousand kilometers on them. 
> I have to say I am very pleased, and hope to bring these shorts to market 
> as a custom fitted, made-to-order product. 
>
> Link to flickr 
> photoset
>
> Any comments would be greatly appreciated!
>
> Paul
>

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[RBW] Re: Seeking feedback: smart looking wool cycle shorts

[Ron Mc]

Deac, you may want to look at these  
http://www.bicyclefixation.com/prod_wool_knickers.html

On Monday, September 23, 2013 10:43:38 AM UTC-5, Deacon Patrick wrote:
>
> I very much like the idea, Paul, and second the desire for wool breeches 
> (knickers) with full range of motion built in. A few thoughts:
>
> -- would worsted wool show less wear?
> -- wool blend? Why not go 100% wool?
>
> With abandon,
> Patrick
>
> On Monday, September 23, 2013 5:52:57 AM UTC-6, Paul Y wrote:
>>
>> Hi all,
>>
>> I'm looking for some feedback on my pet project - cycling shorts inspired 
>> by Grant's writings and also the posts of several on this group. 
>> I had my prototype of these shorts made at the tailor's about 3 months 
>> ago and have put about a thousand kilometers on them. 
>> I have to say I am very pleased, and hope to bring these shorts to market 
>> as a custom fitted, made-to-order product. 
>>
>> Link to flickr 
>> photoset
>>
>> Any comments would be greatly appreciated!
>>
>> Paul
>>
>

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[RBW] Re: Seeking feedback: smart looking wool cycle shorts

[Deacon Patrick]

I very much like the idea, Paul, and second the desire for wool breeches 
(knickers) with full range of motion built in. A few thoughts:

-- would worsted wool show less wear?
-- wool blend? Why not go 100% wool?

With abandon,
Patrick

On Monday, September 23, 2013 5:52:57 AM UTC-6, Paul Y wrote:
>
> Hi all,
>
> I'm looking for some feedback on my pet project - cycling shorts inspired 
> by Grant's writings and also the posts of several on this group. 
> I had my prototype of these shorts made at the tailor's about 3 months ago 
> and have put about a thousand kilometers on them. 
> I have to say I am very pleased, and hope to bring these shorts to market 
> as a custom fitted, made-to-order product. 
>
> Link to flickr 
> photoset
>
> Any comments would be greatly appreciated!
>
> Paul
>

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Re: [RBW] Seeking feedback: smart looking wool cycle shorts

[Lee Chae]

Hi Paul. I like the look and design of your shorts. I sometimes sew my own
from thrift store pants (http://tinyurl.com/27s7jbv*)* and learned a couple
things along the way*. *One thing you may want to experiment with is adding
an extra layer of material over the area covering the sit bones--right
where you see the color staining from your saddle. I find that area is the
first place to wear through.

Good luck!
Lee


On Mon, Sep 23, 2013 at 4:52 AM, Paul Y  wrote:

> Hi all,
>
> I'm looking for some feedback on my pet project - cycling shorts inspired
> by Grant's writings and also the posts of several on this group.
> I had my prototype of these shorts made at the tailor's about 3 months ago
> and have put about a thousand kilometers on them.
> I have to say I am very pleased, and hope to bring these shorts to market
> as a custom fitted, made-to-order product.
>
> Link to flickr 
> photoset
>
> Any comments would be greatly appreciated!
>
> Paul
>
> --
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[RBW] Re: San Diego Bay Ride Not Sure If It Counts

[Tom Virgil]

Very nicely done.

On Sunday, September 22, 2013 11:27:12 PM UTC-7, hsmitham wrote:
>
> Curtis,
>
> Nice ride great pictures and it looks like just awesome weather. And there 
> was a ferry pic :-)
>
> ~Hugh
>
> On Sunday, September 22, 2013 7:35:28 PM UTC-7, Curtis wrote:
>>
>> Hi,
>>  
>> Now that the new standard has been set for proof of ride (music video) 
>> not sure if pictures will be sufficient.
>>  
>> However, just in case here is the link:
>>  
>> http://www.flickr.com/photos/97010676@N07/sets/
>>  
>> Enjoyed a closed road due to a tri event.  We slipped in and became 
>> want-a-be racers for a good half hour.  It was great to see so many people 
>> out on bikes.
>>  
>> Ride safe,
>>  
>> Curtis
>>
>

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[RBW] Re: Seeking feedback: smart looking wool cycle shorts

[Ron Mc]

I like the idea because nylon pants mark my leather saddles

On Monday, September 23, 2013 10:15:51 AM UTC-5, Jon Doyle wrote:
>
> Neat idea. I enjoy wearing old wool dress pants for winter cycling/xc 
> skiing/running.
> How do you think the seat will hold up after another thousand km? I'd be 
> interested in a short/knicker with reinforced sit bones panel; probably 
> some type of nylon.
>
> Jon
> Watertown, MA
>
> On Monday, September 23, 2013 7:52:57 AM UTC-4, Paul Y wrote:
>>
>> Hi all,
>>
>> I'm looking for some feedback on my pet project - cycling shorts inspired 
>> by Grant's writings and also the posts of several on this group. 
>> I had my prototype of these shorts made at the tailor's about 3 months 
>> ago and have put about a thousand kilometers on them. 
>> I have to say I am very pleased, and hope to bring these shorts to market 
>> as a custom fitted, made-to-order product. 
>>
>> Link to flickr 
>> photoset
>>
>> Any comments would be greatly appreciated!
>>
>> Paul
>>
>

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[RBW] Re: From bar ends to thumbies

[Deacon Patrick]

I run thumbies on my Albas, Michael and love it. It took me a while to dial 
in the positioning of them and I'd frankly love to try bar ends some day to 
see if I prefer that, but it's not worth the expense of fine tuning 
something I love already. My one issue with them is they take up real 
estate in a way that makes the flowing use of hand positions challenging. 
I've settled on having mine near the stem just inside the "hooks," which is 
great for all the hand positions I use, except it makes shifting from the 
ends harder but not a big deal.

Hope that helps a wee bit.

With abandon,
Patrick

On Monday, September 23, 2013 5:33:05 AM UTC-6, Michael Hechmer wrote:
>
> Since retiring I have gradually moved my single bikes back from bar ends 
> to down shifters.  Now that I don't commute and rarely ride into heavy town 
> traffic I find I prefer the speed and clean looks of DT shifters.  But the 
> tandem is still bar end because my stoker doesn't like me letting go of the 
> handle bars, and we're never or rarely needing to shift rapidly.  But I am 
> considering switching these to thumbies.  Has anyone made this transition, 
> especially with drop bars? With friction?  How did it go?  Do you like it 
> better or worse?
>
> My wife has been enjoying the albatross bars on her half of the tandem and 
> so we have been talking about also switching her single and if I do that 
> maybe I'll install thumbies there too.  Do people use this combination and 
> how have they likes it?
>
> Michael
>
>
>

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[RBW] Re: Seeking feedback: smart looking wool cycle shorts

[Jon Doyle]

Neat idea. I enjoy wearing old wool dress pants for winter cycling/xc 
skiing/running.
How do you think the seat will hold up after another thousand km? I'd be 
interested in a short/knicker with reinforced sit bones panel; probably 
some type of nylon.

Jon
Watertown, MA

On Monday, September 23, 2013 7:52:57 AM UTC-4, Paul Y wrote:
>
> Hi all,
>
> I'm looking for some feedback on my pet project - cycling shorts inspired 
> by Grant's writings and also the posts of several on this group. 
> I had my prototype of these shorts made at the tailor's about 3 months ago 
> and have put about a thousand kilometers on them. 
> I have to say I am very pleased, and hope to bring these shorts to market 
> as a custom fitted, made-to-order product. 
>
> Link to flickr 
> photoset
>
> Any comments would be greatly appreciated!
>
> Paul
>

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[RBW] Re: 120mm cassette hubs

[Brian Campbell]

All true. I run a 1978 Raleigh Pro w/ Challenge tires and 7 speed IRD 
freewheel, 46/30 TA crankset. It is a really nice ride. I get the concept 
and am a supporter. I just never thought the supply of freewheels was that 
low. I learn something each day!


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[RBW] Re: 120mm cassette hubs

[Bill Lindsay]

Brian

That supply of freewheels and even hubs does exist on the ebay market, but 
it will eventually dry up.  Now maybe even that market might get watered 
down and keep the prices low.  

Compass claimed these are aimed at people who own a nice 50s - 70s racing 
bike, which typically have great clearances.  You've got your classic 
racing bike set up correctly with tubulars.  The bike rides great but you 
are concerned about flatting out on the road or just damaging a nice 
tubular wheelset.  Now it's easier to set up a nice set of clincher wheels 
to make your classic racing bike both a rider and a display bike.  

They also make it possible for a maniacal Q-factor zealot to spec a custom 
frame around 120mm OLD and get an ultra narrow q-factor.  

On Monday, September 23, 2013 5:25:49 AM UTC-7, Brian Campbell wrote:
>
> I used a Suntour Ultra 6 speed freewheel. I had no trouble finding one on 
> ebay that was brand new for about $40. 46/42/28 triple up front. Not sure 
> why you would need a whole new wheel set unless you wanted one.
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Whitefish Bike Retreat - MT

[Nick Worthington]

One of the people we met at the Retreat had taken the train in from 
Seattle, but he had used a bike bag instead of an Amtrack box.  Someone 
from the Retreat took his luggage, and he rode out.  

Nick W.

On Sunday, September 22, 2013 9:57:50 PM UTC-7, Jim Thill - Hiawatha 
Cyclery wrote:
>
> Shawn G is right. I have Amtrak'ed to Whitefish with a bike, and it is as 
> he has described. My train was about 6 hours late into WFH, though, which 
> meant getting to my hotel a block from the station at 3am.
>
> On Wednesday, September 18, 2013 1:42:08 PM UTC-5, Shawn Granton wrote:
>>
>> George (and everyone)-
>>
>> I'm no expert, but I've taken my bike on Amtrak scads of time over the 
>> past decade. But first a good thing to check out if you are interested in 
>> taking a bike on Amtrak is check their official page:
>> http://www.amtrak.com/bring-your-bicycle-onboard
>>
>> And in brief: "Roll-on" bike service is only currently available on 
>> select regional lines, like the Cascades up here in the NW. With any other 
>> line, the bike HAS to be boxed and transported as checked baggage (where 
>> available.) True folding bikes like Bromptons can be brought on board any 
>> train.
>>
>> On Wed, Sep 18, 2013 at 9:47 AM, George Schick  wrote:
>>
>>>  A question I've had is how well the station at Whitefish services bikes 
>>> - that is, does it stop long enough for a passenger to get the bike out of 
>>> baggage (some stops in small, rural areas are very brief)?
>>>
>>
>> It's not a question of how long a train stops at a station, it's whether 
>> or not the station has checked baggage service. Whitefish has checked 
>> baggage, so you can bring a boxed bike along. Most (but not all) 
>> long-distance lines offer checked baggage. You have to make sure that your 
>> departure station AND arrival station have checked baggage service. If you 
>> are doing Chicago to Whitefish, you are okay. There are two ways to find 
>> out if a line has checked baggage AND your departure and arrival stations 
>> have checked baggage service. Either check the stations page on the Amtrak 
>> site: http://www.amtrak.com/find-train-bus-stations
>> Or, if you know the train you'll take, check the timetable. The timetable 
>> will indicate whether the train provides checked baggage service or not, 
>> and if it does, each station that offers baggage service will be indicated 
>> with the checked baggage "suitcase" icon. For example, here's the Empire 
>> Builder's current schedule:
>> http://www.amtrak.com/ccurl/731/811/Empire-Builder-Schedule-042813.pdf
>>
>>   I assume the bike needs to be boxed with at least the pedals removed 
>>> and bars turned. 
>>>
>>
>> Yep. The bike boxes provided by Amtrak are larger than bike shop bike 
>> boxes, so this should be all you need to do. (Of course, if you have rather 
>> large handlebars, you might have to remove them.)
>>  
>>
>>>  Does the Whitefish station facilitate this, i.e., store boxes so you 
>>> can get one when you're ready to leave again?
>>>
>>
>> As far as I know, Amtrak's official policy is they do not hold bike 
>> boxes. Of course, each station is different, and some stations will do this 
>> if you ask nicely and you're going to come back relatively soon. (One 
>> station even volunteered to hold my box!) There is also the chance that the 
>> station may have some used bike boxes lying around that you can snag for 
>> free, it doesn't hurt to ask. (Otherwise, it's $15 for a new bike box.) 
>> Smaller stations tend to be better with the holding boxes and giving free 
>> used boxes.
>>  
>>
>>>  And what about the hours; if the train comes through there late at 
>>> night the station might be closed (unstaffed), which could mean difficulty 
>>> storing the box, etc.?
>>>
>>
>> Again, check the stations page, which will list station hours for any 
>> STAFFED station: 
>> http://www.amtrak.com/find-train-bus-stations
>> Generally, the station will be open when the train comes through 
>> regardless of what hour it comes through, as it wouldn't make sense for it 
>> to be closed when it's most needed. If a station is unstaffed, that's going 
>> to mean that it won't have baggage service, which means you can't bring a 
>> boxed bike. (If a train provides roll-on service, you should be able to get 
>> it on/off at unstaffed stations.)
>>
>> yours,
>> Shawn
>>
>>
>> -- 
>> http://urbanadventureleague.blogspot.com/
>> http://groups.google.com/group/urban-adventure-league-portland
>> http://societyofthreespeeds.wordpress.com/
>> http://www.flickr.com/photos/urbanadventureleaguepdx/ 
>> P O Box 14185, Portland OR 97293-0185
>> You've read this far, congratulations! You are part of an elite club.
>>
>>  

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[RBW] Re: 120mm cassette hubs

[Jeremy Till]

I wonder if the flange spacing would work out such that if they built a 
130mm version of this hub with the 5/6spd freehub body, it would build into 
a practically dishless wheel, as is the case with the Phil 130/135 spaced 
freewheel hubs.  That would be a great way to build a bomber wheel without 
relying on the iffy availability of quality freewheels.  

On Sunday, September 22, 2013 9:52:59 PM UTC-7, Jim Thill - Hiawatha 
Cyclery wrote:
>
> Fortunately, most Rivs are 130 or 135 mm!
>
> On Sunday, September 22, 2013 10:17:47 AM UTC-5, Bill Lindsay wrote:
>>
>> Compass Bikes just posted the availability of new Grand Boris branded 5 
>> and 6 speed cassette hubs for 120mm rear spacing.  That's a pretty exciting 
>> development for a lot of folks.  They have the cog sets as well.  I hope 
>> the freewheel hoarders aren't angry about it.  
>>
>> If I understand the manufacturing relationships, we'll probably see these 
>> hubs under a couple other labels as well
>>
>

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[RBW] Re: A weekend in the Methow Valley

[Matt Beebe]

Wow, that scenery is gorgeous, and nice report.Also, I consider having 
to get off and walk your bike periodically to be a strong indicator that 
you are doing things right  :)

 

On Monday, September 23, 2013 2:33:50 AM UTC-4, Cecily Walker wrote:
>
> A group of 7 friends and I took a long weekend trip to the Methow Valley 
> in the North Cascades of Washington. Long before I got a Betty Foy, I 
> dreamed of riding single track, but couldn't find much locally that wasn't 
> very technical trails that required mountain bikes. My friend Kay, a 
> seasoned mountain bike enthusiast, ensured me that the blue trails in the 
> Okanogan National Forest would be a piece of cake for the Betty Foy, and 
> she was right. 
>
> Here's a map of where we rode: 
> http://www.mvsta.com//images/sunmap_summer.jpg
>
> It was my first time doing riding of this sort, and it took some getting 
> used to. The trail was a mixture of large loose gravel, sandy soil, mud, 
> and pine needles over hard packed dirt. To make matters worse, the 
> osteoarthritis in my right knee really flared up a couple of days before 
> the trip, and unfortunately the cortisone shot I had the day before my 
> departure didn't do much for the inflammation. I was undaunted though.
>
> Friday morning dawned cool with cerulean blue skies with nary a cloud in 
> sight. The layer of cool air was fairly shallow, because by the time we got 
> our bikes unloaded from the car, things had warmed up enough for me to go 
> on without a jacket. 
>
> We combined the Beaver Pond and Rodeo trails to do a loop around Beaver 
> Lake. I had some trouble finding the right gear to match the ground 
> conditions at first, but after about the first 20 minutes I seemed to get 
> the hang of things. The only times I had to get off my bike were to push up 
> a couple of short, steep inclines I didn't change gears quickly enough for, 
> and to scale down a "rock garden" incline that Kay thought might be a bit 
> much for a novice rider on Soma New Express tires. 
>
> Because I got out to the country and put the Betty Foy through her paces, 
> I feel as if I'm finally a part of the Rivendell club. I'm sad to say that 
> the summer single track season is rapidly coming to a close, but there's 
> always next year!
>
> Here are a few photos from the weekend. We stopped a lot on the way to 
> Winthrop, and were particularly taken with the views from Washington Pass. 
> There's a photo of me riding singletrack in the set from the weekend: 
>
> http://www.flickr.com/photos/cecily/sets/72157635790163246/
>

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Re: [RBW] From bar ends to thumbies

[Joe Hogg]

  
  
On 09/23/2013 04:33 AM, Michael Hechmer
  wrote:


  Since retiring I have gradually moved my single
bikes back from bar ends to down shifters.  Now that I don't
commute and rarely ride into heavy town traffic I find I prefer
the speed and clean looks of DT shifters.  But the tandem is
still bar end because my stoker doesn't like me letting go of
the handle bars, and we're never or rarely needing to shift
rapidly.  But I am considering switching these to thumbies.  Has
anyone made this transition, especially with drop bars? With
friction?  How did it go?  Do you like it better or worse?


My wife has been enjoying the albatross bars on her half of
  the tandem and so we have been talking about also switching
  her single and if I do that maybe I'll install thumbies there
  too.  Do people use this combination and how have they likes
  it?


Michael




  
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Hi Michael,

I've moved three of the four bikes I ride from bar-end shifters to
thumb shifters, most recently using Paul's + Shimano 8-speed
shifters. The other two use the Sunrace shifters which work well but
best fit the narrower mountain bike diameter handlebars. Albatross
bars are good for these.

I don't shift gears that often as I ride and I find that I bumped
bar-end shifters while parking. They also extend the length of the
handlebar more than I wanted, particularly with Albatross bars.

In summary, I like thumb shifters. They work well and keep my hands
firmly on the handlebars while shifting.

Joe Hogg
LA, CA
  




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[RBW] Re: 120mm cassette hubs

[Ron Mc]

I think a lot of people are buying nice old frames and building up good 
bikes from them.  You can stretch a 126mm frame to fit a 130mm hub.  Can't 
really do that with 120mm frame.  

On Monday, September 23, 2013 7:25:49 AM UTC-5, Brian Campbell wrote:
>
> I used a Suntour Ultra 6 speed freewheel. I had no trouble finding one on 
> ebay that was brand new for about $40. 46/42/28 triple up front. Not sure 
> why you would need a whole new wheel set unless you wanted one.
>

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[RBW] Re: A weekend in the Methow Valley

[Deacon Patrick]

Brilliant! What a wonderful first country ramble. How did Diablo Lake get 
it's name? Seems like someone missed the mark on that one. Grin.

With abandon,
Patrick

On Monday, September 23, 2013 12:33:50 AM UTC-6, Cecily Walker wrote:
>
> A group of 7 friends and I took a long weekend trip to the Methow Valley 
> in the North Cascades of Washington. Long before I got a Betty Foy, I 
> dreamed of riding single track, but couldn't find much locally that wasn't 
> very technical trails that required mountain bikes. My friend Kay, a 
> seasoned mountain bike enthusiast, ensured me that the blue trails in the 
> Okanogan National Forest would be a piece of cake for the Betty Foy, and 
> she was right. 
>
> Here's a map of where we rode: 
> http://www.mvsta.com//images/sunmap_summer.jpg
>
> It was my first time doing riding of this sort, and it took some getting 
> used to. The trail was a mixture of large loose gravel, sandy soil, mud, 
> and pine needles over hard packed dirt. To make matters worse, the 
> osteoarthritis in my right knee really flared up a couple of days before 
> the trip, and unfortunately the cortisone shot I had the day before my 
> departure didn't do much for the inflammation. I was undaunted though.
>
> Friday morning dawned cool with cerulean blue skies with nary a cloud in 
> sight. The layer of cool air was fairly shallow, because by the time we got 
> our bikes unloaded from the car, things had warmed up enough for me to go 
> on without a jacket. 
>
> We combined the Beaver Pond and Rodeo trails to do a loop around Beaver 
> Lake. I had some trouble finding the right gear to match the ground 
> conditions at first, but after about the first 20 minutes I seemed to get 
> the hang of things. The only times I had to get off my bike were to push up 
> a couple of short, steep inclines I didn't change gears quickly enough for, 
> and to scale down a "rock garden" incline that Kay thought might be a bit 
> much for a novice rider on Soma New Express tires. 
>
> Because I got out to the country and put the Betty Foy through her paces, 
> I feel as if I'm finally a part of the Rivendell club. I'm sad to say that 
> the summer single track season is rapidly coming to a close, but there's 
> always next year!
>
> Here are a few photos from the weekend. We stopped a lot on the way to 
> Winthrop, and were particularly taken with the views from Washington Pass. 
> There's a photo of me riding singletrack in the set from the weekend: 
>
> http://www.flickr.com/photos/cecily/sets/72157635790163246/
>

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[RBW] Re: 120mm cassette hubs

[Brian Campbell]

I used a Suntour Ultra 6 speed freewheel. I had no trouble finding one on 
ebay that was brand new for about $40. 46/42/28 triple up front. Not sure 
why you would need a whole new wheel set unless you wanted one.

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[RBW] Seeking feedback: smart looking wool cycle shorts

[Paul Y]

Hi all,

I'm looking for some feedback on my pet project - cycling shorts inspired 
by Grant's writings and also the posts of several on this group. 
I had my prototype of these shorts made at the tailor's about 3 months ago 
and have put about a thousand kilometers on them. 
I have to say I am very pleased, and hope to bring these shorts to market 
as a custom fitted, made-to-order product. 

Link to flickr 
photoset

Any comments would be greatly appreciated!

Paul

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[RBW] Re: 120mm cassette hubs

[Ron Mc]

It's a great thing.  14-28 in a 5 or 6 is a great choice with the right 
chainrings.  On my 13-28 6-speed rear, I have a cyclotouriste triple with 
half-steps (47/42) and a 26T escape ring.  This gives me 4-inch steps from 
26" to 95" with no overlaps.  

On Sunday, September 22, 2013 6:07:26 PM UTC-5, Bill Lindsay wrote:
>
> stephen s
>
> the 14-28 six speed cassette fits on the same 120mm hub.  no cold setting 
> needed.  you are golden!
>

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[RBW] Re: 120mm cassette hubs

[jandrews_nyc]

Couldn't this be a way for us Simpleone / Quickbeam riders to get geared 
for a hilly weekend?  I think you'd just need a bolt-on derailleur hanger 
attachment and a shifter cable guide.


Jason

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[RBW] From bar ends to thumbies

[Michael Hechmer]

Since retiring I have gradually moved my single bikes back from bar ends to 
down shifters.  Now that I don't commute and rarely ride into heavy town 
traffic I find I prefer the speed and clean looks of DT shifters.  But the 
tandem is still bar end because my stoker doesn't like me letting go of the 
handle bars, and we're never or rarely needing to shift rapidly.  But I am 
considering switching these to thumbies.  Has anyone made this transition, 
especially with drop bars? With friction?  How did it go?  Do you like it 
better or worse?

My wife has been enjoying the albatross bars on her half of the tandem and 
so we have been talking about also switching her single and if I do that 
maybe I'll install thumbies there too.  Do people use this combination and 
how have they likes it?

Michael


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[RBW] Re: 120mm cassette hubs

[justinaugust]

Ah,
Looks like they haven't made it over here yet. They're on their website and 
folks takes of importing them but I guess no one did. Probably due to a lack of 
cassettes unless there were undisclosed problems. I stand corrected about US 
availability unless these were just vaporware. 

-Justin

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