Re: [RBW] Re: Bike quiver update focusing on my A. Homer Hilsen

[cyclotourist]

Sounds like everyone is a winner with this!!!

On Sun, Feb 21, 2016 at 9:35 PM, René Sterental  wrote:

> Funny you should say. We went for a ride this afternoon and I told him
> about my thoughts regarding him, his Tallboy and the Homer as we were
> riding. He heard me, then responded that he understood and that he
> preferred to keep the Homer long term and sell the Tallboy. He literally
> expressed that these local pavement rides relax him whereas mountain biking
> stresses him out. He wouldn't mind doing more of these rides with me and he
> likes the Homer very much and can see it being his bike long term.
>
> So it's settled. The Homer is staying and I'll have a lot of fun comparing
> it to the Rex and sharing my thoughts and findings with the list. Whether
> low trail or high trail rules doesn't really matter. What matters is that
> my son will continue to ride with me and really enjoy it.
>
> Thanks for your support! All of you!
>
> On Sun, Feb 21, 2016 at 6:13 PM, cyclotourist 
> wrote:
>
>> I think you'll be really happy with your upcoming Rex! I know many people
>> that have moved from Rivendells to low-trail "rando" bikes, but no of none
>> that moved in the opposite direction.
>>
>> It sounds like your son would be able to use your Homer at some poing,
>> maybe don't let that one go too quickly :-)
>>
>> On Sun, Feb 21, 2016 at 1:00 PM, René Sterental 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> @Cyclotourist:
>>>
>>> Yes, for all practical purposes I have the perfect trio of Rivendell
>>> bikes. There is, however, room for improvement, both personal and practical
>>> on my bike quiver. Yes, I can only justify it emotionally, but were it not
>>> for our emotions, we wouldn't have the relationship we have with our bikes,
>>> be them Rivendells or not.
>>>
>>> With that in mind, here is what's actually going on now...
>>>
>>> - The Homer is a fantastic bike, no questions there, BUT, the toe
>>> overlap has always annoyed me terribly and I can't get it to handle as I
>>> want with a front load, which is how I like to ride to keep my
>>> camera/lenses at hand. The other issue of riding it comfortably I seem to
>>> have finally nailed it, albeit a bit late as you'll see.
>>> - I love the feel of the 650b wheels with wide low pressure tires such
>>> as the Hetres. As such, the Betty (with no front loads) rides and handles
>>> even better than the Homer in some non-quantifiable difficult to articulate
>>> rationally manner.
>>> - I love the handling of a low trail bike, especially with a front load,
>>> as exemplified by my experimental conversions of both my Atlantis and
>>> Hunqapillar, where I think the conversion made the bike ride even better
>>> than before and took away all the shimmy I experienced. At first I was set
>>> on converting the Homer and Betty as well, but then decided not to; the
>>> Betty was perfect as it was and not intended to be my long(ish) distance
>>> bike and back then, I had decided to reward me with a 650b low trail bike
>>> that essentially combined the Homer/Betty/Low Trail on a single bike.
>>>
>>> As a reward for my 50% progress on my weight loss and lifestyle changes,
>>> I placed an order for a custom 650b low trail frame with Steve Rex, a
>>> builder in Sacramento that Kevin actually referred me to when I needed to
>>> have the downtube boss replaced on my Atlantis after a bolt broke inside
>>> when I was building it up. Over the years, I kept it in the back of my mind
>>> and late last year decided to proceed with the plan, which was another
>>> reason I had to find a new home for the Hunqa, aside from the fit/comfort
>>> issues. By this time, I had also found my pain-free fit on the Atlantis, so
>>> I had Steve do a fitting for the custom frame and also showed him the
>>> Atlantis for additional reference. I could tell that I wasn't really going
>>> to be comfortable in the standard low trail randonneur geometry that is now
>>> being made available more broadly, and that unless I went custom, it wasn't
>>> worth it.
>>>
>>> Steve's proposed geometry seems to be what I'm looking for:
>>> - 35mm low trail that is not extreme and can be ridden with or without a
>>> front load and should address any toe overlap issues
>>> - Seat tube angle of 71.5 to place the saddle where I want it without
>>> requiring a super offset seat post
>>> - Longer chain stays @ 460mm so I'm not sitting over the rear wheel and
>>> the bike handles better for me
>>> - Reach adjusted primarily for what is now a comfortable cockpit for me
>>> that I can fit with either rearward bars like the Elysee on the Atlantis or
>>> the Randonneur and adjust the stem reach accordingly.
>>> - Integrated beautiful racks (Steve won best bike a few years ago at
>>> NAHBS with a beautiful racked bike)
>>> - Beautiful polished lugs, internal cable routing, integrated fork with
>>> connectors for the SON SL hub, internal cabling for the rear fender mounted
>>> dynamo 

Re: [RBW] Re: Bike quiver update focusing on my A. Homer Hilsen

[René Sterental]

Funny you should say. We went for a ride this afternoon and I told him
about my thoughts regarding him, his Tallboy and the Homer as we were
riding. He heard me, then responded that he understood and that he
preferred to keep the Homer long term and sell the Tallboy. He literally
expressed that these local pavement rides relax him whereas mountain biking
stresses him out. He wouldn't mind doing more of these rides with me and he
likes the Homer very much and can see it being his bike long term.

So it's settled. The Homer is staying and I'll have a lot of fun comparing
it to the Rex and sharing my thoughts and findings with the list. Whether
low trail or high trail rules doesn't really matter. What matters is that
my son will continue to ride with me and really enjoy it.

Thanks for your support! All of you!

On Sun, Feb 21, 2016 at 6:13 PM, cyclotourist 
wrote:

> I think you'll be really happy with your upcoming Rex! I know many people
> that have moved from Rivendells to low-trail "rando" bikes, but no of none
> that moved in the opposite direction.
>
> It sounds like your son would be able to use your Homer at some poing,
> maybe don't let that one go too quickly :-)
>
> On Sun, Feb 21, 2016 at 1:00 PM, René Sterental 
> wrote:
>
>> @Cyclotourist:
>>
>> Yes, for all practical purposes I have the perfect trio of Rivendell
>> bikes. There is, however, room for improvement, both personal and practical
>> on my bike quiver. Yes, I can only justify it emotionally, but were it not
>> for our emotions, we wouldn't have the relationship we have with our bikes,
>> be them Rivendells or not.
>>
>> With that in mind, here is what's actually going on now...
>>
>> - The Homer is a fantastic bike, no questions there, BUT, the toe overlap
>> has always annoyed me terribly and I can't get it to handle as I want with
>> a front load, which is how I like to ride to keep my camera/lenses at hand.
>> The other issue of riding it comfortably I seem to have finally nailed it,
>> albeit a bit late as you'll see.
>> - I love the feel of the 650b wheels with wide low pressure tires such as
>> the Hetres. As such, the Betty (with no front loads) rides and handles even
>> better than the Homer in some non-quantifiable difficult to articulate
>> rationally manner.
>> - I love the handling of a low trail bike, especially with a front load,
>> as exemplified by my experimental conversions of both my Atlantis and
>> Hunqapillar, where I think the conversion made the bike ride even better
>> than before and took away all the shimmy I experienced. At first I was set
>> on converting the Homer and Betty as well, but then decided not to; the
>> Betty was perfect as it was and not intended to be my long(ish) distance
>> bike and back then, I had decided to reward me with a 650b low trail bike
>> that essentially combined the Homer/Betty/Low Trail on a single bike.
>>
>> As a reward for my 50% progress on my weight loss and lifestyle changes,
>> I placed an order for a custom 650b low trail frame with Steve Rex, a
>> builder in Sacramento that Kevin actually referred me to when I needed to
>> have the downtube boss replaced on my Atlantis after a bolt broke inside
>> when I was building it up. Over the years, I kept it in the back of my mind
>> and late last year decided to proceed with the plan, which was another
>> reason I had to find a new home for the Hunqa, aside from the fit/comfort
>> issues. By this time, I had also found my pain-free fit on the Atlantis, so
>> I had Steve do a fitting for the custom frame and also showed him the
>> Atlantis for additional reference. I could tell that I wasn't really going
>> to be comfortable in the standard low trail randonneur geometry that is now
>> being made available more broadly, and that unless I went custom, it wasn't
>> worth it.
>>
>> Steve's proposed geometry seems to be what I'm looking for:
>> - 35mm low trail that is not extreme and can be ridden with or without a
>> front load and should address any toe overlap issues
>> - Seat tube angle of 71.5 to place the saddle where I want it without
>> requiring a super offset seat post
>> - Longer chain stays @ 460mm so I'm not sitting over the rear wheel and
>> the bike handles better for me
>> - Reach adjusted primarily for what is now a comfortable cockpit for me
>> that I can fit with either rearward bars like the Elysee on the Atlantis or
>> the Randonneur and adjust the stem reach accordingly.
>> - Integrated beautiful racks (Steve won best bike a few years ago at
>> NAHBS with a beautiful racked bike)
>> - Beautiful polished lugs, internal cable routing, integrated fork with
>> connectors for the SON SL hub, internal cabling for the rear fender mounted
>> dynamo twilight, integrated chain hanger and other little details.
>> - Compass Centerpull brakes
>>
>> If this bike turns out to be what I expect it to be, it will be the bike
>> that could certainly replace the Homer and potentially 

[RBW] FS: Nitto Bosco Bullmoose, Ortlieb Panniers and Handlebar Bag

[Tim Wood]

Hey friends, 

A few quality bike goods up for your viewing and shopping pleasure:

1) Nitto Bosco Bullmoose, 58cm wide. These came off my Clem a month ago. They 
have a couple hundred easy Km's on them, essentially brand new.  The only 
visible blemishes are where the grips live, a couple superficial scratches that 
occurred during the removal of the grips. 
-$125 shipped

2) Ortlieb Ultimate 5 handlebar bag, medium, black, with mounting bracket. Very 
good shape, no rips, tares, stains, just superficial ware. It's probably seen 
about 4 weeks of touring. I can't find the shoulder strap or the keys.
-$50 shipped

3) Ortlieb Back Roller Classic Pannier set (2), in black. These are the larger 
ones: Height = 16.5 inches.  Width = 12.6 inches.  Depth = 6.7 inches.  Volume 
= 2441 cubic inches/pair (40 Liters).  Weight = 67.1 ounces/pair.  In very good 
shape, some rub marks but no rips, tares, holes or funky smells or stains. They 
have probably seen 6 weeks of use in their life. 
-$110 shipped

Photos are here:  https://flickr.com/photos/137638381@N05/sets/72157662625860953

Thanks for looking. 

Tim

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Re: [RBW] Re: NAHBS Rivendell Owner's Bunch/iBOB Social Ride--Sat 2/27 5:30pm

[Patrick Kelly]

Erik Nohlin (doesn't ride riv, but hangs with people that do, I think)
posted about doing an SF to SAC journey.

https://www.instagram.com/p/BCCIrSQS_Ss/

"We're riding from SF to SAC for NAHBS. 08.15 ferry from Ferry
Building. Stop for liquid lunch at Heretic and hydration at Bikedog.
Chill - No drop. Arrive at NAHBS 4pm ish. Who else is on?"

Not included in the text, but in the photo is "this friday".


On Sun, Feb 21, 2016 at 6:28 PM, Eric Norris  wrote:
> I’m planning to be at the show Saturday. Let me know where and when the Riv
> event will be.
>
> --Eric Norris
> campyonly...@me.com
> www.campyonly.com
> campyonlyguy.blogspot.com
>
> On Feb 21, 2016, at 7:49 PM, Jeremy Till  wrote:
>
> Bump.  Who's coming to NAHBS?  I'm organizing a little git together for
> Riv/iBOB folks on Saturday evening.
>
> On Thursday, February 11, 2016 at 9:18:11 AM UTC-8, Jeremy Till wrote:
>>
>> Hey Folks-
>>
>> Just bought my tickets for NAHBS, definitely getting excited about this
>> event!  As a resident of Sacramento, I thought I'd organize a meetup for my
>> friends on the Rivendell Owner's Bunch and Internet-BOB group, and share
>> some of the fun stuff about living and riding in Sac.  Towards that end, how
>> does this sound?
>>
>> Rivendell Owner's Bunch/iBOB Social Ride
>> A short ride at a social pace, at most 1 hour long
>> Meet: 5-5:30pm at Capitol Garage Restaurant & Bar, corner of 15th & K St,
>> just next to the Convention Center.
>> End: New Helvetia Brewing Company, 18th & Broadway (south end of Midtown,
>> north end of Upper Land Park, easy biking distance back to Midtown,
>> Downtown, Amtrak, etc.)
>>
>> I'll try to get to Capitol Garage around 5, so people who need respite
>> from the show floor can join me there for a pre-ride pint, and we'll get
>> rolling around 5:30.  We'll take an easy ride along the river, around to New
>> Helvetia, my local watering hole, where they brew many fine ales and lagers.
>> Social pace, no drop, everyone welcome, etc. etc.
>>
>> I know there's numerous other social events planned for that evening and
>> the whole weekend, so my intention is to make a relatively casual event so
>> people can come and go as they please.  Say hi at the meetup, come for all
>> or none of the ride, meet us at New Helvetia, whatever.  If there's still a
>> good group sticking around at New Helvetia, we can retire to my place which
>> is very close to there, and my wife has offered to grill us up some grub.
>>
>> If this sounds like fun, please RSVP so I have a rough idea of count. If
>> we're a significant crowd, I'll warn the businesses of incoming bike nerds.
>> If you need to borrow a bike, PM me with your size and I'll see what I can
>> do.
>>
>> See you soon,
>>
>> Jeremy
>
>
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Re: [RBW] Re: NAHBS Rivendell Owner's Bunch/iBOB Social Ride--Sat 2/27 5:30pm

[Eric Norris]

I’m planning to be at the show Saturday. Let me know where and when the Riv 
event will be.

--Eric Norris
campyonly...@me.com
www.campyonly.com
campyonlyguy.blogspot.com

> On Feb 21, 2016, at 7:49 PM, Jeremy Till  wrote:
> 
> Bump.  Who's coming to NAHBS?  I'm organizing a little git together for 
> Riv/iBOB folks on Saturday evening. 
> 
> On Thursday, February 11, 2016 at 9:18:11 AM UTC-8, Jeremy Till wrote:
> Hey Folks-
> 
> Just bought my tickets for NAHBS, definitely getting excited about this 
> event!  As a resident of Sacramento, I thought I'd organize a meetup for my 
> friends on the Rivendell Owner's Bunch and Internet-BOB group, and share some 
> of the fun stuff about living and riding in Sac.  Towards that end, how does 
> this sound?
> 
> Rivendell Owner's Bunch/iBOB Social Ride
> A short ride at a social pace, at most 1 hour long
> Meet: 5-5:30pm at Capitol Garage Restaurant & Bar 
> , corner of 15th & K St, just next to the 
> Convention Center. 
> End: New Helvetia Brewing Company , 18th & 
> Broadway (south end of Midtown, north end of Upper Land Park, easy biking 
> distance back to Midtown, Downtown, Amtrak, etc.)
> 
> I'll try to get to Capitol Garage around 5, so people who need respite from 
> the show floor can join me there for a pre-ride pint, and we'll get rolling 
> around 5:30.  We'll take an easy ride along the river, around to New 
> Helvetia, my local watering hole, where they brew many fine ales and lagers.  
> Social pace, no drop, everyone welcome, etc. etc. 
> 
> I know there's numerous other social events planned for that evening and the 
> whole weekend, so my intention is to make a relatively casual event so people 
> can come and go as they please.  Say hi at the meetup, come for all or none 
> of the ride, meet us at New Helvetia, whatever.  If there's still a good 
> group sticking around at New Helvetia, we can retire to my place which is 
> very close to there, and my wife has offered to grill us up some grub. 
> 
> If this sounds like fun, please RSVP so I have a rough idea of count. If 
> we're a significant crowd, I'll warn the businesses of incoming bike nerds.  
> If you need to borrow a bike, PM me with your size and I'll see what I can 
> do.  
> 
> See you soon,
> 
> Jeremy
> 
> -- 
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> "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
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[RBW] Re: NAHBS Rivendell Owner's Bunch/iBOB Social Ride--Sat 2/27 5:30pm

[Manuel Acosta]

I might be free. Wrestling depends on where or not I make it.

Manny

On Sunday, February 21, 2016 at 7:49:43 PM UTC-8, Jeremy Till wrote:
>
> Bump.  Who's coming to NAHBS?  I'm organizing a little git together for 
> Riv/iBOB folks on Saturday evening. 
>
> On Thursday, February 11, 2016 at 9:18:11 AM UTC-8, Jeremy Till wrote:
>>
>> Hey Folks-
>>
>> Just bought my tickets for NAHBS, definitely getting excited about this 
>> event!  As a resident of Sacramento, I thought I'd organize a meetup for my 
>> friends on the Rivendell Owner's Bunch and Internet-BOB group, and share 
>> some of the fun stuff about living and riding in Sac.  Towards that end, 
>> how does this sound?
>>
>> Rivendell Owner's Bunch/iBOB Social Ride
>> A short ride at a social pace, at most 1 hour long
>> Meet: 5-5:30pm at Capitol Garage Restaurant & Bar 
>> , corner of 15th & K St, just next to the 
>> Convention Center. 
>> End: New Helvetia Brewing Company , 18th & 
>> Broadway (south end of Midtown, north end of Upper Land Park, easy biking 
>> distance back to Midtown, Downtown, Amtrak, etc.)
>>
>> I'll try to get to Capitol Garage around 5, so people who need respite 
>> from the show floor can join me there for a pre-ride pint, and we'll get 
>> rolling around 5:30.  We'll take an easy ride along the river, around to 
>> New Helvetia, my local watering hole, where they brew many fine ales and 
>> lagers.  Social pace, no drop, everyone welcome, etc. etc. 
>>
>> I know there's numerous other social events planned for that evening and 
>> the whole weekend, so my intention is to make a relatively casual event so 
>> people can come and go as they please.  Say hi at the meetup, come for all 
>> or none of the ride, meet us at New Helvetia, whatever.  If there's still a 
>> good group sticking around at New Helvetia, we can retire to my place which 
>> is very close to there, and my wife has offered to grill us up some grub. 
>>
>> If this sounds like fun, please RSVP so I have a rough idea of count. If 
>> we're a significant crowd, I'll warn the businesses of incoming bike nerds. 
>>  If you need to borrow a bike, PM me with your size and I'll see what I can 
>> do.  
>>
>> See you soon,
>>
>> Jeremy
>>
>

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[RBW] Re: NAHBS Rivendell Owner's Bunch/iBOB Social Ride--Sat 2/27 5:30pm

[Jeremy Till]

Bump.  Who's coming to NAHBS?  I'm organizing a little git together for 
Riv/iBOB folks on Saturday evening. 

On Thursday, February 11, 2016 at 9:18:11 AM UTC-8, Jeremy Till wrote:
>
> Hey Folks-
>
> Just bought my tickets for NAHBS, definitely getting excited about this 
> event!  As a resident of Sacramento, I thought I'd organize a meetup for my 
> friends on the Rivendell Owner's Bunch and Internet-BOB group, and share 
> some of the fun stuff about living and riding in Sac.  Towards that end, 
> how does this sound?
>
> Rivendell Owner's Bunch/iBOB Social Ride
> A short ride at a social pace, at most 1 hour long
> Meet: 5-5:30pm at Capitol Garage Restaurant & Bar 
> , corner of 15th & K St, just next to the 
> Convention Center. 
> End: New Helvetia Brewing Company , 18th & 
> Broadway (south end of Midtown, north end of Upper Land Park, easy biking 
> distance back to Midtown, Downtown, Amtrak, etc.)
>
> I'll try to get to Capitol Garage around 5, so people who need respite 
> from the show floor can join me there for a pre-ride pint, and we'll get 
> rolling around 5:30.  We'll take an easy ride along the river, around to 
> New Helvetia, my local watering hole, where they brew many fine ales and 
> lagers.  Social pace, no drop, everyone welcome, etc. etc. 
>
> I know there's numerous other social events planned for that evening and 
> the whole weekend, so my intention is to make a relatively casual event so 
> people can come and go as they please.  Say hi at the meetup, come for all 
> or none of the ride, meet us at New Helvetia, whatever.  If there's still a 
> good group sticking around at New Helvetia, we can retire to my place which 
> is very close to there, and my wife has offered to grill us up some grub. 
>
> If this sounds like fun, please RSVP so I have a rough idea of count. If 
> we're a significant crowd, I'll warn the businesses of incoming bike nerds. 
>  If you need to borrow a bike, PM me with your size and I'll see what I can 
> do.  
>
> See you soon,
>
> Jeremy
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: RBW and Meaning

[Surlyprof]

Patrick,

Teaching doesn't seem to pay that great in any field 
(http://www.nytimes.com/2011/05/01/opinion/01eggers.html?_r=0).  That said, 
I do have a fun and interesting job when you get past the bureaucracy and 
paperwork.  Getting to explore topics like this and passing what I discover 
on to students makes it all the more worthwhile.  Guess I prescribe more to 
what I thought was Emerson's definition of success... which, upon further 
exploration, may not have been written by Emerson at all. 
 http://emerson-legacy.tamu.edu/Ephemera/Success.html  Learn something new 
every day.

Either way, I've gotten to draw and color for a living and that's all I 
really wanted to do as a kid.  The rest is icing on the cake.
John

On Sunday, February 21, 2016 at 3:38:44 PM UTC-8, Patrick Moore wrote:
>
> You have an interesting job; hope it pays well, too.
>
> Somewhat of an aside, but not unrelated: I have a small (1253 sf) house 
> which I share occasionally with a 14 year old daughter (say, 1/3 of the 
> year). I am the type who hates clutter, and who throws things out much too 
> readily.
>
> Yet I am continually impressed by how much "stuff" I have; clothing, say. 
> I could easily do with 1/4 as much in clothes, bikes, pots and pans, 
> dishes, and so forth -- leading me to think that, if I could spend the same 
> on just a quarter of things, but have those things top quality, made 
> locally, and meet my needs without compromise, I'd be happier with what I 
> have.
>
> On Sun, Feb 21, 2016 at 3:27 PM, Surlyprof  > wrote:
>
>> Patrick,
>>
>> I've designed trains, lift trucks, amusement parks, housewares, office 
>> supplies, electronics, shoes, cars (interiors mostly)... all sorts of 
>> things.  The concept of "perceived value" has never sat well with me either 
>> and I have witnessed it first hand.  I think that is one reason I like what 
>> Riv is doing.  Things cost what they cost with enough of a profit to keep 
>> the company going and keep people paid.  In product design I was always 
>> amazed that something would be designed to retail for $80, would list for 
>> $60 (already a artificial price) and be manufactured for $6.50 + another $2 
>> for the packaging that was thrown away!  The rest appeared to cover 
>> overhead, profits and growth for shareholders.  Your rants are justified in 
>> many cases, particularly in the consumer markets.  To add fuel to that 
>> fire, the prices of most goods don't cover things that I feel may be more 
>> important in the long run such as disposal, environmental impact or 
>> recycling costs.  I see some movement towards improving that situation in 
>> the future but it seems to be coming at way too slow of a pace.  That is 
>> another thing about Riv that resonated with me... 40-year bikes and other 
>> products that you buy once unless something happens to it.  I grew up 
>> around a grandfather who ran a small butcher shop in Ohio and paid a little 
>> more for things that he felt would last.  He was also a scratch handicap 
>> golfer who made a club with special grip he molded to teach my brothers and 
>> I how to golf.  I get to remember this fondly whenever I play golf because 
>> I'll be using the very golf clubs that he bought for himself over 40 years 
>> ago!  I rarely golf but still keep those clubs, not because they perform as 
>> well as contemporary clubs but because of the meaningful memories attached 
>> to them.  Given how I golf these days, performance is a much lesser factor.
>>
>> John
>>
>> On Sunday, February 21, 2016 at 11:44:02 AM UTC-8, Patrick Moore wrote:
>>>
>>> John -- what exactly do you design?
>>>
>>> When I took my MBA courses some 18 years ago, one of the big buzzwords 
>>> was "perception of value" -- you want to convince customers that you are 
>>> providing "value," so that they will give you money. I thought it strange 
>>> that they emphasized "perception" and not "value," but the motive for this 
>>> focus is evident when you consider that, after all, most organization are 
>>> run "abstractly" by professional managers who "manage by numbers" and who 
>>> have no real contact with, let alone love for, the product or service that 
>>> their companies sell.
>>>
>>> Here beginneth a spluttering rant: A entire way of life ("economy" is, 
>>> after all, a way of living, including a worldview) based on conning the 
>>> customer (buy at the highest price what we make at the lowest price even if 
>>> you don't really need or want it) can't be healthy, despite the very 
>>> obvious technological advances made by this system. It's essentially a 
>>> con-man paradigm.
>>>
>>> Rivendell makes and sells what it loves. Some of those things are very 
>>> weird, but, to quote again, "we are product driven, not market driven."
>>>
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Re: [RBW] Re: Bike quiver update focusing on my A. Homer Hilsen

[cyclotourist]

I think you'll be really happy with your upcoming Rex! I know many people
that have moved from Rivendells to low-trail "rando" bikes, but no of none
that moved in the opposite direction.

It sounds like your son would be able to use your Homer at some poing,
maybe don't let that one go too quickly :-)

On Sun, Feb 21, 2016 at 1:00 PM, René Sterental  wrote:

> @Cyclotourist:
>
> Yes, for all practical purposes I have the perfect trio of Rivendell
> bikes. There is, however, room for improvement, both personal and practical
> on my bike quiver. Yes, I can only justify it emotionally, but were it not
> for our emotions, we wouldn't have the relationship we have with our bikes,
> be them Rivendells or not.
>
> With that in mind, here is what's actually going on now...
>
> - The Homer is a fantastic bike, no questions there, BUT, the toe overlap
> has always annoyed me terribly and I can't get it to handle as I want with
> a front load, which is how I like to ride to keep my camera/lenses at hand.
> The other issue of riding it comfortably I seem to have finally nailed it,
> albeit a bit late as you'll see.
> - I love the feel of the 650b wheels with wide low pressure tires such as
> the Hetres. As such, the Betty (with no front loads) rides and handles even
> better than the Homer in some non-quantifiable difficult to articulate
> rationally manner.
> - I love the handling of a low trail bike, especially with a front load,
> as exemplified by my experimental conversions of both my Atlantis and
> Hunqapillar, where I think the conversion made the bike ride even better
> than before and took away all the shimmy I experienced. At first I was set
> on converting the Homer and Betty as well, but then decided not to; the
> Betty was perfect as it was and not intended to be my long(ish) distance
> bike and back then, I had decided to reward me with a 650b low trail bike
> that essentially combined the Homer/Betty/Low Trail on a single bike.
>
> As a reward for my 50% progress on my weight loss and lifestyle changes, I
> placed an order for a custom 650b low trail frame with Steve Rex, a builder
> in Sacramento that Kevin actually referred me to when I needed to have the
> downtube boss replaced on my Atlantis after a bolt broke inside when I was
> building it up. Over the years, I kept it in the back of my mind and late
> last year decided to proceed with the plan, which was another reason I had
> to find a new home for the Hunqa, aside from the fit/comfort issues. By
> this time, I had also found my pain-free fit on the Atlantis, so I had
> Steve do a fitting for the custom frame and also showed him the Atlantis
> for additional reference. I could tell that I wasn't really going to be
> comfortable in the standard low trail randonneur geometry that is now being
> made available more broadly, and that unless I went custom, it wasn't worth
> it.
>
> Steve's proposed geometry seems to be what I'm looking for:
> - 35mm low trail that is not extreme and can be ridden with or without a
> front load and should address any toe overlap issues
> - Seat tube angle of 71.5 to place the saddle where I want it without
> requiring a super offset seat post
> - Longer chain stays @ 460mm so I'm not sitting over the rear wheel and
> the bike handles better for me
> - Reach adjusted primarily for what is now a comfortable cockpit for me
> that I can fit with either rearward bars like the Elysee on the Atlantis or
> the Randonneur and adjust the stem reach accordingly.
> - Integrated beautiful racks (Steve won best bike a few years ago at NAHBS
> with a beautiful racked bike)
> - Beautiful polished lugs, internal cable routing, integrated fork with
> connectors for the SON SL hub, internal cabling for the rear fender mounted
> dynamo twilight, integrated chain hanger and other little details.
> - Compass Centerpull brakes
>
> If this bike turns out to be what I expect it to be, it will be the bike
> that could certainly replace the Homer and potentially the Betty, although
> I have the feeling that I'll always keep the Betty as I try to be less car
> dependent around town. And did I say I just love how it rides?
>
> There is the additional topic of my son and my aspirations for him, which
> was touched very well in another recent topic. He likes riding with me, but
> he's not passionate about cycling and I've made the mistake of trying to
> ignite his passion by getting him better bikes. He just turned 17 and since
> last summer, he pretty much fits on my Rivs without needing to make any
> adjustments, so it was very tempting to say I'd keep the Hunqapillar for
> him, only it didn't make sense nor I had the room, especially once the Rex
> project materialized. I am still thinking that I might try to leave the
> Homer for him to ride, but does it make sense to have it sitting there
> until who know when? I still have to decide if to sell his highly spec
> parts upgraded Santa Cruz Tallboy as he just doesn't want 

[RBW] Re: FS: 65cm Homer Hilsen

[David Craig]

I'm going to do as a couple of you suggested and investigate how I can 
responsibly ship the bike given my current situation. I'm moving in a week, 
and all of the tools I've used to ship bikes in the past are in storage. 
Perhaps I'll see if the folks at RBW might be able to pack and ship the 
bike for me. I've got a pretty high standard for shipping expensive bikes 
and I've never seen anyone else match the perfection of their packing.

Most importantly, this particular bike is pretty hard to let go of as it's 
my last Riv (I've had 4), and it represents letting go of much more than 
the physical possession. Bikes have been a big part of my identity for much 
of my life. I'm pretty tough, but disassembling and packing the bike would 
be agonizingly painful.

On Saturday, February 13, 2016 at 1:48:59 PM UTC-8, David Craig wrote:
>
> Hey, Folks.
>
> Haven't posted for quite awhile. I've been on a medically prompted hiatus 
> from cycling for the past couple of years. The wife and I will be hitting 
> the road in a couple of weeks for a year long sabbatical, and I've decided 
> to pass on my HH to somebody who might be able to use it rather than store 
> it.
>
> The bike is in great condition - pictured here: 
> https://www.flickr.com/photos/45341162@N04/albums/72157626013424216
>
> Couple of changes from the picture - the bike no longer has a leather seat 
> and it now sports a 7cm Nitto Technomic Deluxe stem instead of the riser - 
> otherwise, it's the same bike pictured.
>
> I can provide detailed photos and build info to interested buyers. I'm 
> looking for $1500.00 OBO for the entire bike. Quite a deal, but you'd need 
> to be able to pick the bike up in central California. I don't have the time 
> to ship it. I'm located in the Gold County near Yosemite and I'd be willing 
> to drive to a couple of hours from here to deliver the bike.
>
> I've sold several items to list members over the years, so I believe I've 
> got a good reputation as a straight shooter and honest guy. 
>
> Remember, please reply via a PM instead of through the list. I'll get back 
> to you ASAP.
>
> Dave
>

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[RBW] Re: Could the end be near? Spring and happy Phil pawls

[Bill M.]

At temperatures that low, the pour point of the lubricant would start to 
matter.  Phil Tenacious Oil is probably molasses at -40.  I can't find 
detailed specs for Tri Flow, but the MSDS says its flash point is pretty 
low (170 degrees), indicating a fair portion of it is pretty light oil so 
it probably does flow at a low temperature.  Sewing machine oils or 
3-in-One would perform similarly.  

I'm not a huge fan of using motor oil outside of engines, but you could go 
to a 0W-20 synthetic motor oil to get a very low pour point.  Synthetic 
oils have an inherently high viscosity index, which means they don't change 
viscosity with temperature as much as mineral oils.  That same property 
would help maintain lubrication film strength when the weather warms up.  

If you stick with Tri Flow, consider using it as a winter-only oil, and 
relubricating with something a bit heavier for the warm months.  No sense 
wearing out an expensive hub prematurely. 

Bill
Stockton, CA

On Wednesday, February 17, 2016 at 1:05:09 PM UTC-8, Mark Reimer wrote:
>
> Good question! I did a quick Google and it seems they have their own brand 
> of 'all season' oil, but I didn't find anything else. 
>
> I've tried Phil pawl lube, tenacious oil, 10w40 motor oil, various chain 
> lubes, etc. Triflow is the only thing I've found to work consistently below 
> -10C. Even -5C was getting my 10w40 lube sticking a bit, which I found 
> surprising. 
>
> Strangely enough, my older 3-pawl phil wood road hub has never skipped in 
> any temperatures, ever. But this new and 'improved' 4-pawl design Phil came 
> out with a year or two ago has been brutal. This is my third freehub and my 
> first time since getting the Atlantis that I've been able to ride in the 
> cold without it skipping. 
>
> I got the minimal and ultra light lube idea from some riders up in Alaska 
> who used a few drops of Singer sewing machine oil. It's pretty similar to 
> TriFlow. TriFlow is supposed to be good to -60C. I've had the 'pleasure' of 
> trying it down to -40C and it's been working well. 
>
> A friend of mine just bought a Rohloff, I'll ask him about its low temp 
> performance. 
>
> On Wednesday, February 17, 2016 at 2:50:47 PM UTC-6, dougP wrote:
>>
>> What lube is used in Rohloff hubs?  That would seem to be a tricky 
>> problem, given all the whirling bits.  And the Germans deal with real 
>> winter.  Maybe ATF?
>>
>> dougP
>>
>> On Wednesday, February 17, 2016 at 12:18:04 PM UTC-8, Deacon Patrick 
>> wrote:
>>>
>>> Amazing how our mitochondria adapt to the seasons so swiftly, helping us 
>>> generate heat more than go in the winter and go more than heat in the 
>>> winter. perhaps poor Phil's pawls need a mitochondria lube? Grin.
>>>
>>> Love your pictures as always!
>>>
>>> With abandon,
>>> Patrick
>>>
>>> On Wednesday, February 17, 2016 at 12:37:51 PM UTC-7, Mark Reimer wrote:

 After sitting in the deep freeze so long, my body is all out of wack 
 and was feeling quite happy to ride for a few hours in nothing but a wool 
 jersey and jeans. It's funny, because come October I would be freezing 
 cold 
 in warmer temperatures with more clothes!

>>>

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Re: [RBW] Re: suspicious Cheviot on Bay Area CL

[Dave]

I'm in complete shock that I was able to buy this bike today. I hope RBW isn't 
too bummed that a discounted employee bike didnt stick with the employee. Rest 
assured I've been grinning like a little kid cruising on this dreamy cheviot. 
Absolutely gorgeous and awesome bike!

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[RBW] Re: FS: 65cm Homer Hilsen

[David Craig]

Thank you, Patrick. I appreciate the thoughts and prayers.

Dave

On Saturday, February 20, 2016 at 5:55:37 AM UTC-8, Deacon Patrick wrote:
>
> That is a beautiful Homer! But for higher priorities, I'd be all over this 
> for long remote fire road rides. My thoughts and prayers for you in your 
> health issues.
>
> With abandon,
> Patrick
>
> On Saturday, February 20, 2016 at 12:03:51 AM UTC-7, David Craig wrote:
>>
>> Yep. Complete Hilsen. Great bike in excellent condition.
>>
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: RBW and Meaning

[Evan E.]

Patrick wrote: "if I could spend the same on just a quarter of things, but 
have those things top quality, made locally, and meet my needs without 
compromise, I'd be happier with what I have."

Yep! I imagine that most people on this list like the idea of products that 
work well, look good, last a long time, and somehow satisfy the soul. Most 
Rivendell products do that for me, and I, like John's grandfather, am often 
willing to pay more for an item that will last. But not always. A 
cherrywood five-drawer dresser from Thomas Moser costs $6,460, and though 
it might well be the Atlantis of dressers and therefore constitute a good 
value, I can't touch that price. So I buy a decent but lesser dresser 
(clean and simple design, made of alder wood in the USA) and hope that my 
soul will be content with people and experiences that one cannot buy. And, 
every once in a while, when I'm bored and when the consumer within me 
insists that I can buy meaning at a store, I make another trip to Rivendell!







>
>

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[RBW] Re: FS 56cm Sam Hillborne Complete Build

[Stephen D]

Sale pending...

On Sunday, February 21, 2016 at 8:20:27 PM UTC-5, Stephen D wrote:
>
> Whoops - fenders are Velo Orange, not Honjo. Sorry -- total wishful 
> thinking / Freudian slip on my part.
>
> On Sunday, February 21, 2016 at 3:55:44 PM UTC-5, Stephen D wrote:
>>
>> Selling a complete Sam build - $1,500. 
>>
>> Pictures are here: 
>> https://www.flickr.com/photos/stephendm/albums/72157664785138301
>>
>> I'm located in Baltimore. I can really only do local pickup, as I a) 
>> don't have a car and b) am hesitant to ship a used bike that is this 
>> expensive -- I'd rather the buyer have a chance to look over it and make 
>> sure they are happy with it before they buy it.
>>
>> My wife and I recently moved from Savannah to Baltimore and are just not 
>> riding our bikes the way we used to. We are selling her 56 cm Sam, which we 
>> rebuilt about 2 months before moving and which has just not been used since 
>> we moved.
>>
>> The Sam was bought in ~2013 (I believe -- it was when Rivendell was 
>> selling the discounted Sam frames because the headtube was erroneously 
>> painted blue instead of cream). We ordered it with the basic drop bar Sam 
>> build, which is what the drive train still is. Here are a few of the 
>> upgrades / details.
>>
>> The condition of the bike is very good. I can't find any paint chips or 
>> anything on it. Let me know if you want any close up pictures of anything 
>> and I'll add more pics to the flickr album.
>>
>> *Lighting*
>> Son28 Dyno Hub
>> Edelux II Dyno Headlight
>> Velo Lumino Dyno Taillight 
>>
>> *Brakes*
>> Paul Racer brakes, front and rear
>>
>> *Tires*
>> Compass Barlow Pass 750cx38 extra legere - barely used
>>
>> *Rims*
>> Velocity Synergy
>>
>> *Racks*
>> Nitto Campee Front and Rear. Pictures show pannier racks attached and 
>> removed.
>>
>> *Fenders*
>> Honjo Snakeskin
>>
>> *Saddle*
>> Selle Anatomica - 2014 T Series WaterShed Mahogany - Gunmetal -- We have 
>> a spare B17 in like new shape you can swap this out for if you want.
>>
>> *Cockpit*
>> IRD Stem Shifter Mount for Silver bar-end shifters
>> Albastache bars
>> Nitto Dirt Drop stem
>> (also included is a Nitto Noodle with Tallux stem)
>>
>> *Pedals*
>> Thin Gripster
>>
>> *Drivetrain*
>> Standard Riv built front Crankset 
>> Shimano Deore XT front derailleur
>> Rear Cassette is 9sp 12-36
>> Rear Derailleur is Shimano Altus
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Stephen
>>
>

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[RBW] Re: FS 56cm Sam Hillborne Complete Build

[Stephen D]

Whoops - fenders are Velo Orange, not Honjo. Sorry -- total wishful 
thinking / Freudian slip on my part.

On Sunday, February 21, 2016 at 3:55:44 PM UTC-5, Stephen D wrote:
>
> Selling a complete Sam build - $1,500. 
>
> Pictures are here: 
> https://www.flickr.com/photos/stephendm/albums/72157664785138301
>
> I'm located in Baltimore. I can really only do local pickup, as I a) don't 
> have a car and b) am hesitant to ship a used bike that is this expensive -- 
> I'd rather the buyer have a chance to look over it and make sure they are 
> happy with it before they buy it.
>
> My wife and I recently moved from Savannah to Baltimore and are just not 
> riding our bikes the way we used to. We are selling her 56 cm Sam, which we 
> rebuilt about 2 months before moving and which has just not been used since 
> we moved.
>
> The Sam was bought in ~2013 (I believe -- it was when Rivendell was 
> selling the discounted Sam frames because the headtube was erroneously 
> painted blue instead of cream). We ordered it with the basic drop bar Sam 
> build, which is what the drive train still is. Here are a few of the 
> upgrades / details.
>
> The condition of the bike is very good. I can't find any paint chips or 
> anything on it. Let me know if you want any close up pictures of anything 
> and I'll add more pics to the flickr album.
>
> *Lighting*
> Son28 Dyno Hub
> Edelux II Dyno Headlight
> Velo Lumino Dyno Taillight 
>
> *Brakes*
> Paul Racer brakes, front and rear
>
> *Tires*
> Compass Barlow Pass 750cx38 extra legere - barely used
>
> *Rims*
> Velocity Synergy
>
> *Racks*
> Nitto Campee Front and Rear. Pictures show pannier racks attached and 
> removed.
>
> *Fenders*
> Honjo Snakeskin
>
> *Saddle*
> Selle Anatomica - 2014 T Series WaterShed Mahogany - Gunmetal -- We have 
> a spare B17 in like new shape you can swap this out for if you want.
>
> *Cockpit*
> IRD Stem Shifter Mount for Silver bar-end shifters
> Albastache bars
> Nitto Dirt Drop stem
> (also included is a Nitto Noodle with Tallux stem)
>
> *Pedals*
> Thin Gripster
>
> *Drivetrain*
> Standard Riv built front Crankset 
> Shimano Deore XT front derailleur
> Rear Cassette is 9sp 12-36
> Rear Derailleur is Shimano Altus
>
> Thanks,
> Stephen
>

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[RBW] Re: FS/T: 59 AHH

[Don Funke]

DO you have a price in mind? Just my size.

On Wednesday, February 10, 2016 at 5:56:45 PM UTC-7, Dave S wrote:
>
> Complete Bike as seen here: http://www.rivbike.com/product-p/staff1.htm
>
> Would trade for 57cm AHH or Roadeo Frame or bike. Serious buyers please 
> PM. 
>

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[RBW] Re: Reach and extension for stems at RBW

[Lungimsam]

NITTO stems that are shaped like a backwards number seven (Technomics, 
Talluxes,  and Pearls, etc.) are measured like this:

1. Lay stem on its side on a table.
2. Measure from center of quill (on the vertical quill shaft from the point 
where the stem bolt passes through the vertical quill) to the center of bar 
clamp (empty space). You are running your cm measuring tape along the side 
of the extension from center of vertical quill to the center of the clamp 
hole.

DO NOT measure from center of stem bolt head along the top of the stem 
extension to top of clamp (metal there). That will not be correct.

Measure along the side of the stem. This is actual extension length.

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Re: [RBW] Re: RBW and Meaning

[Patrick Moore]

You have an interesting job; hope it pays well, too.

Somewhat of an aside, but not unrelated: I have a small (1253 sf) house
which I share occasionally with a 14 year old daughter (say, 1/3 of the
year). I am the type who hates clutter, and who throws things out much too
readily.

Yet I am continually impressed by how much "stuff" I have; clothing, say. I
could easily do with 1/4 as much in clothes, bikes, pots and pans, dishes,
and so forth -- leading me to think that, if I could spend the same on just
a quarter of things, but have those things top quality, made locally, and
meet my needs without compromise, I'd be happier with what I have.

On Sun, Feb 21, 2016 at 3:27 PM, Surlyprof  wrote:

> Patrick,
>
> I've designed trains, lift trucks, amusement parks, housewares, office
> supplies, electronics, shoes, cars (interiors mostly)... all sorts of
> things.  The concept of "perceived value" has never sat well with me either
> and I have witnessed it first hand.  I think that is one reason I like what
> Riv is doing.  Things cost what they cost with enough of a profit to keep
> the company going and keep people paid.  In product design I was always
> amazed that something would be designed to retail for $80, would list for
> $60 (already a artificial price) and be manufactured for $6.50 + another $2
> for the packaging that was thrown away!  The rest appeared to cover
> overhead, profits and growth for shareholders.  Your rants are justified in
> many cases, particularly in the consumer markets.  To add fuel to that
> fire, the prices of most goods don't cover things that I feel may be more
> important in the long run such as disposal, environmental impact or
> recycling costs.  I see some movement towards improving that situation in
> the future but it seems to be coming at way too slow of a pace.  That is
> another thing about Riv that resonated with me... 40-year bikes and other
> products that you buy once unless something happens to it.  I grew up
> around a grandfather who ran a small butcher shop in Ohio and paid a little
> more for things that he felt would last.  He was also a scratch handicap
> golfer who made a club with special grip he molded to teach my brothers and
> I how to golf.  I get to remember this fondly whenever I play golf because
> I'll be using the very golf clubs that he bought for himself over 40 years
> ago!  I rarely golf but still keep those clubs, not because they perform as
> well as contemporary clubs but because of the meaningful memories attached
> to them.  Given how I golf these days, performance is a much lesser factor.
>
> John
>
> On Sunday, February 21, 2016 at 11:44:02 AM UTC-8, Patrick Moore wrote:
>>
>> John -- what exactly do you design?
>>
>> When I took my MBA courses some 18 years ago, one of the big buzzwords
>> was "perception of value" -- you want to convince customers that you are
>> providing "value," so that they will give you money. I thought it strange
>> that they emphasized "perception" and not "value," but the motive for this
>> focus is evident when you consider that, after all, most organization are
>> run "abstractly" by professional managers who "manage by numbers" and who
>> have no real contact with, let alone love for, the product or service that
>> their companies sell.
>>
>> Here beginneth a spluttering rant: A entire way of life ("economy" is,
>> after all, a way of living, including a worldview) based on conning the
>> customer (buy at the highest price what we make at the lowest price even if
>> you don't really need or want it) can't be healthy, despite the very
>> obvious technological advances made by this system. It's essentially a
>> con-man paradigm.
>>
>> Rivendell makes and sells what it loves. Some of those things are very
>> weird, but, to quote again, "we are product driven, not market driven."
>>
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*It is *we 

Re: [RBW] "Bit-o-Everything" Winter Ride

[René Sterental]

Wow. Awesome!

On Sun, Feb 21, 2016 at 12:55 PM, Deacon Patrick  wrote:

> It was in the 20's the whole ride. A bit of everything in this ride, which
> is part of what makes it so fun. Crashing through frozen mud puddles is a
> blast! Some good climbing (without ice or snow pack) on roads, remote dirt
> roads, snow packed trail descent and climb and a mostly frozen reservoir at
> the turn around. Arctic blast headwind on the steep, curvy descent that
> somehow managed to always be in my face despite all the twists and turns
> all the way home. What a blast! The Hunqapillar|ThunderBurt combo is
> brilliant for "bit-o-everything" rides!
>
> https://medium.com/@DeaconPatrick/rampart-reservoir-ride-a17c22a42fb8#.8w0flbbo1
>
> With abandon,
> Patrick
>
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[RBW] wtb Brown Acorn handlebar bag

[Ron Mc]

Apparently Ron at Acorn has changed the handlebar bag design.  My buddy 
wants the old style in brown (Ranger tan), is happy with weathered but not 
worn.  
If you're willing to let one go, please contact me by pm, and I can blast 
off paypal.  
Thanks for looking !!

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Re: [RBW] Re: RBW and Meaning

[Surlyprof]

Patrick,

I've designed trains, lift trucks, amusement parks, housewares, office 
supplies, electronics, shoes, cars (interiors mostly)... all sorts of 
things.  The concept of "perceived value" has never sat well with me either 
and I have witnessed it first hand.  I think that is one reason I like what 
Riv is doing.  Things cost what they cost with enough of a profit to keep 
the company going and keep people paid.  In product design I was always 
amazed that something would be designed to retail for $80, would list for 
$60 (already a artificial price) and be manufactured for $6.50 + another $2 
for the packaging that was thrown away!  The rest appeared to cover 
overhead, profits and growth for shareholders.  Your rants are justified in 
many cases, particularly in the consumer markets.  To add fuel to that 
fire, the prices of most goods don't cover things that I feel may be more 
important in the long run such as disposal, environmental impact or 
recycling costs.  I see some movement towards improving that situation in 
the future but it seems to be coming at way too slow of a pace.  That is 
another thing about Riv that resonated with me... 40-year bikes and other 
products that you buy once unless something happens to it.  I grew up 
around a grandfather who ran a small butcher shop in Ohio and paid a little 
more for things that he felt would last.  He was also a scratch handicap 
golfer who made a club with special grip he molded to teach my brothers and 
I how to golf.  I get to remember this fondly whenever I play golf because 
I'll be using the very golf clubs that he bought for himself over 40 years 
ago!  I rarely golf but still keep those clubs, not because they perform as 
well as contemporary clubs but because of the meaningful memories attached 
to them.  Given how I golf these days, performance is a much lesser factor.

John

On Sunday, February 21, 2016 at 11:44:02 AM UTC-8, Patrick Moore wrote:
>
> John -- what exactly do you design?
>
> When I took my MBA courses some 18 years ago, one of the big buzzwords was 
> "perception of value" -- you want to convince customers that you are 
> providing "value," so that they will give you money. I thought it strange 
> that they emphasized "perception" and not "value," but the motive for this 
> focus is evident when you consider that, after all, most organization are 
> run "abstractly" by professional managers who "manage by numbers" and who 
> have no real contact with, let alone love for, the product or service that 
> their companies sell.
>
> Here beginneth a spluttering rant: A entire way of life ("economy" is, 
> after all, a way of living, including a worldview) based on conning the 
> customer (buy at the highest price what we make at the lowest price even if 
> you don't really need or want it) can't be healthy, despite the very 
> obvious technological advances made by this system. It's essentially a 
> con-man paradigm.
>
> Rivendell makes and sells what it loves. Some of those things are very 
> weird, but, to quote again, "we are product driven, not market driven."
>

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[RBW] Re: FS 56cm Sam Hillborne Complete Build

['joe kelly' via RBW Owners Bunch]

pm sent
joe kelly
columbus ohio

On Sunday, February 21, 2016 at 3:55:44 PM UTC-5, Stephen D wrote:
>
> Selling a complete Sam build - $1,500. 
>
> Pictures are here: 
> https://www.flickr.com/photos/stephendm/albums/72157664785138301
>
> I'm located in Baltimore. I can really only do local pickup, as I a) don't 
> have a car and b) am hesitant to ship a used bike that is this expensive -- 
> I'd rather the buyer have a chance to look over it and make sure they are 
> happy with it before they buy it.
>
> My wife and I recently moved from Savannah to Baltimore and are just not 
> riding our bikes the way we used to. We are selling her 56 cm Sam, which we 
> rebuilt about 2 months before moving and which has just not been used since 
> we moved.
>
> The Sam was bought in ~2013 (I believe -- it was when Rivendell was 
> selling the discounted Sam frames because the headtube was erroneously 
> painted blue instead of cream). We ordered it with the basic drop bar Sam 
> build, which is what the drive train still is. Here are a few of the 
> upgrades / details.
>
> The condition of the bike is very good. I can't find any paint chips or 
> anything on it. Let me know if you want any close up pictures of anything 
> and I'll add more pics to the flickr album.
>
> *Lighting*
> Son28 Dyno Hub
> Edelux II Dyno Headlight
> Velo Lumino Dyno Taillight 
>
> *Brakes*
> Paul Racer brakes, front and rear
>
> *Tires*
> Compass Barlow Pass 750cx38 extra legere - barely used
>
> *Rims*
> Velocity Synergy
>
> *Racks*
> Nitto Campee Front and Rear. Pictures show pannier racks attached and 
> removed.
>
> *Fenders*
> Honjo Snakeskin
>
> *Saddle*
> Selle Anatomica - 2014 T Series WaterShed Mahogany - Gunmetal -- We have 
> a spare B17 in like new shape you can swap this out for if you want.
>
> *Cockpit*
> IRD Stem Shifter Mount for Silver bar-end shifters
> Albastache bars
> Nitto Dirt Drop stem
> (also included is a Nitto Noodle with Tallux stem)
>
> *Pedals*
> Thin Gripster
>
> *Drivetrain*
> Standard Riv built front Crankset 
> Shimano Deore XT front derailleur
> Rear Cassette is 9sp 12-36
> Rear Derailleur is Shimano Altus
>
> Thanks,
> Stephen
>

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Re: [RBW] Great deal in New Mexico (65cm Homer)

[Jeff Bogdanovich]

I've tried to contact the guy several times, provided phone, email, offered 
cash, etc but never heard back. I travel frequently and could arrange a local 
pickup but I think all my correspondence is probably ending up in his junk 
email... It's a shame because I and others would buy this bike in a heartbeat.

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Re: [RBW] Re: Tips for how to better handle Selfish Drivers?

[Ron Mc]

We had a wonderful ride today on the lower Salado Creek greenway.  Chasing 
my buddy and his college-age daughter on their tandem.  20 fast miles (15.7 
mph) without a vehicle and only 3 pedestrians.  

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[RBW] Re: Reach and extension for stems at RBW

[Garth]

This one is like the Wetmore one but is down right now, said to be being 
improved. They have some other tools as well : 

http://yojimg.net/bike/web_tools/stem.php

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[RBW] Re: Reach and extension for stems at RBW

[Garth]

The wonderful Alex Wetmore interactive stem web page is now gone , but 
fortunately here is one similar to it, not as great but you get the idea  :

http://ttbikefit.com/stemcalc.html

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Re: [RBW] Re: Reach and extension for stems at RBW

[René Sterental]

Correct!

On Sun, Feb 21, 2016 at 1:31 PM, BSWP  wrote:

> Ah, so an 8cm Nitto Lugged stem will be 8cm from the center of the quill
> to the center of the handlebar clamp, as measured through the center of the
> stem extension. Not 8cm perpendicular to center of quill. Thanks!
>
> - Andrew
>
>
> On Sunday, February 21, 2016 at 11:22:18 AM UTC-8, Joe Bernard wrote:
>>
>> The standard measurement for stem length is the actual number from center
>> of quill (fork for threadless) to center of clamp. No website that I'm
>> familiar with lists a virtual reach number.
>
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[RBW] Re: Reach and extension for stems at RBW

[BSWP]

Ah, so an 8cm Nitto Lugged stem will be 8cm from the center of the quill to 
the center of the handlebar clamp, as measured through the center of the 
stem extension. Not 8cm perpendicular to center of quill. Thanks!

- Andrew

On Sunday, February 21, 2016 at 11:22:18 AM UTC-8, Joe Bernard wrote:
>
> The standard measurement for stem length is the actual number from center 
> of quill (fork for threadless) to center of clamp. No website that I'm 
> familiar with lists a virtual reach number. 

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[RBW] Re: FS 56cm Sam Hillborne Complete Build

[Stephen D]

I forgot to mention that it has Pitlocks for front and rear wheels and the 
seat post. The pics were taken with a quick release skewer on the rear 
wheel, but I just pulled the rear Pitlock skewer out of the bike toolbox 
and will put it on the bike.


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[RBW] S24O overnight camping in Angel Island on April 3-4

[René Sterental]

I've talked my son into doing an overnight camping ride in Angel Island on
April 3-4, during his Spring Break. We did it once, several years ago when
I had the Bombadil and it was a fun adventure. At that time my oldest
daughter also came. There is little loaded riding, from the ferry dock to
the campsite, but there is nice riding around the island to explore it
while leaving everything at the campsite. The views are great, there's lots
of wind and exploring the abandoned "town" is mesmerizing. This is a ride
that is particularly suitable for beginners to overnight camping trips
(S24O) as well as parents wanting to introduce their older kids to this
type of riding.

I have campsite 006 reserved with capacity for 8 people and so far it's
only my son and I. If anyone wants to join us, you're welcome!

I'll be riding my Atlantis on its first overnight camping trip (that was
the Hunqa's role) and my son will likely ride the Betty.

Let me know so we can coordinate logistics. We'll likely take the train
from Palo Alto to SF, then ride to the Ferry Building to take the ferry to
Angel Island.

René

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Re: [RBW] Re: Bike quiver update focusing on my A. Homer Hilsen

[René Sterental]

@Cyclotourist:

Yes, for all practical purposes I have the perfect trio of Rivendell bikes.
There is, however, room for improvement, both personal and practical on my
bike quiver. Yes, I can only justify it emotionally, but were it not for
our emotions, we wouldn't have the relationship we have with our bikes, be
them Rivendells or not.

With that in mind, here is what's actually going on now...

- The Homer is a fantastic bike, no questions there, BUT, the toe overlap
has always annoyed me terribly and I can't get it to handle as I want with
a front load, which is how I like to ride to keep my camera/lenses at hand.
The other issue of riding it comfortably I seem to have finally nailed it,
albeit a bit late as you'll see.
- I love the feel of the 650b wheels with wide low pressure tires such as
the Hetres. As such, the Betty (with no front loads) rides and handles even
better than the Homer in some non-quantifiable difficult to articulate
rationally manner.
- I love the handling of a low trail bike, especially with a front load, as
exemplified by my experimental conversions of both my Atlantis and
Hunqapillar, where I think the conversion made the bike ride even better
than before and took away all the shimmy I experienced. At first I was set
on converting the Homer and Betty as well, but then decided not to; the
Betty was perfect as it was and not intended to be my long(ish) distance
bike and back then, I had decided to reward me with a 650b low trail bike
that essentially combined the Homer/Betty/Low Trail on a single bike.

As a reward for my 50% progress on my weight loss and lifestyle changes, I
placed an order for a custom 650b low trail frame with Steve Rex, a builder
in Sacramento that Kevin actually referred me to when I needed to have the
downtube boss replaced on my Atlantis after a bolt broke inside when I was
building it up. Over the years, I kept it in the back of my mind and late
last year decided to proceed with the plan, which was another reason I had
to find a new home for the Hunqa, aside from the fit/comfort issues. By
this time, I had also found my pain-free fit on the Atlantis, so I had
Steve do a fitting for the custom frame and also showed him the Atlantis
for additional reference. I could tell that I wasn't really going to be
comfortable in the standard low trail randonneur geometry that is now being
made available more broadly, and that unless I went custom, it wasn't worth
it.

Steve's proposed geometry seems to be what I'm looking for:
- 35mm low trail that is not extreme and can be ridden with or without a
front load and should address any toe overlap issues
- Seat tube angle of 71.5 to place the saddle where I want it without
requiring a super offset seat post
- Longer chain stays @ 460mm so I'm not sitting over the rear wheel and the
bike handles better for me
- Reach adjusted primarily for what is now a comfortable cockpit for me
that I can fit with either rearward bars like the Elysee on the Atlantis or
the Randonneur and adjust the stem reach accordingly.
- Integrated beautiful racks (Steve won best bike a few years ago at NAHBS
with a beautiful racked bike)
- Beautiful polished lugs, internal cable routing, integrated fork with
connectors for the SON SL hub, internal cabling for the rear fender mounted
dynamo twilight, integrated chain hanger and other little details.
- Compass Centerpull brakes

If this bike turns out to be what I expect it to be, it will be the bike
that could certainly replace the Homer and potentially the Betty, although
I have the feeling that I'll always keep the Betty as I try to be less car
dependent around town. And did I say I just love how it rides?

There is the additional topic of my son and my aspirations for him, which
was touched very well in another recent topic. He likes riding with me, but
he's not passionate about cycling and I've made the mistake of trying to
ignite his passion by getting him better bikes. He just turned 17 and since
last summer, he pretty much fits on my Rivs without needing to make any
adjustments, so it was very tempting to say I'd keep the Hunqapillar for
him, only it didn't make sense nor I had the room, especially once the Rex
project materialized. I am still thinking that I might try to leave the
Homer for him to ride, but does it make sense to have it sitting there
until who know when? I still have to decide if to sell his highly spec
parts upgraded Santa Cruz Tallboy as he just doesn't want to come mountain
biking. We had a long conversation last summer where he agreed that he
loved just going for a local 1 hour (give or take) bike ride with me just
to spend time with me, but he wasn't interested in doing long rides or
spending a good part of the day driving to do a ride somewhere. I was set
on selling his Tallboy last summer, but we decided that once a month or so,
he'd mountain bike with me in Arrastradero Preserve in Palo Alto. 6+ months
later he still hasn't, but he's come on a couple or paved rides 

[RBW] FS 56cm Sam Hillborne Complete Build

[Stephen D]

Selling a complete Sam build - $1,500. 

Pictures are here: 
https://www.flickr.com/photos/stephendm/albums/72157664785138301

I'm located in Baltimore. I can really only do local pickup, as I a) don't 
have a car and b) am hesitant to ship a used bike that is this expensive -- 
I'd rather the buyer have a chance to look over it and make sure they are 
happy with it before they buy it.

My wife and I recently moved from Savannah to Baltimore and are just not 
riding our bikes the way we used to. We are selling her 56 cm Sam, which we 
rebuilt about 2 months before moving and which has just not been used since 
we moved.

The Sam was bought in ~2013 (I believe -- it was when Rivendell was selling 
the discounted Sam frames because the headtube was erroneously painted blue 
instead of cream). We ordered it with the basic drop bar Sam build, which 
is what the drive train still is. Here are a few of the upgrades / details.

The condition of the bike is very good. I can't find any paint chips or 
anything on it. Let me know if you want any close up pictures of anything 
and I'll add more pics to the flickr album.

*Lighting*
Son28 Dyno Hub
Edelux II Dyno Headlight
Velo Lumino Dyno Taillight 

*Brakes*
Paul Racer brakes, front and rear

*Tires*
Compass Barlow Pass 750cx38 extra legere - barely used

*Rims*
Velocity Synergy

*Racks*
Nitto Campee Front and Rear. Pictures show pannier racks attached and 
removed.

*Fenders*
Honjo Snakeskin

*Saddle*
Selle Anatomica - 2014 T Series WaterShed Mahogany - Gunmetal -- We have a 
spare B17 in like new shape you can swap this out for if you want.

*Cockpit*
IRD Stem Shifter Mount for Silver bar-end shifters
Albastache bars
Nitto Dirt Drop stem
(also included is a Nitto Noodle with Tallux stem)

*Pedals*
Thin Gripster

*Drivetrain*
Standard Riv built front Crankset 
Shimano Deore XT front derailleur
Rear Cassette is 9sp 12-36
Rear Derailleur is Shimano Altus

Thanks,
Stephen

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[RBW] "Bit-o-Everything" Winter Ride

[Deacon Patrick]

It was in the 20's the whole ride. A bit of everything in this ride, which 
is part of what makes it so fun. Crashing through frozen mud puddles is a 
blast! Some good climbing (without ice or snow pack) on roads, remote dirt 
roads, snow packed trail descent and climb and a mostly frozen reservoir at 
the turn around. Arctic blast headwind on the steep, curvy descent that 
somehow managed to always be in my face despite all the twists and turns 
all the way home. What a blast! The Hunqapillar|ThunderBurt combo is 
brilliant for "bit-o-everything" rides!
https://medium.com/@DeaconPatrick/rampart-reservoir-ride-a17c22a42fb8#.8w0flbbo1

With abandon,
Patrick

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[RBW] Re: Reach and extension for stems at RBW

[Dave Johnston]

The Nitto Dirt Drop 80mm is basically equivalent to a Nitto 70mm "7" shaped 
stem if both set to the exact same height.

Attached is a screenshot from the Alex stem calculator tool that no longer 
works.







On Sunday, February 21, 2016 at 12:52:44 PM UTC-5, BSWP wrote:
>
> Does anyone know how the stem sizes Riv lists correspond to actual reach 
> and extension? I want to try a stem with less forward reach, and the 
> descriptions don't indicate how this is measured, or if the sizes listed 
> are for horizontal reach or absolute extension. This link is useful, even 
> if for threadless stems. I wish RBW had something similar:
>
> http://www.habcycles.com/fitting.html
>
> Sheldon has good commentary on stems:
>
> http://www.sheldonbrown.com/handsup.html
>
> - Andrew, Berkeley
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Bike quiver update focusing on my A. Homer Hilsen

[René Sterental]

I think you're referring to the Compass Cycle Promenade that I had on the
Betty a while back, which does look like a mini Bosco. The width at the
ends is 415mm.
https://www.compasscycle.com/shop/components/handlebars/promenade/


On Sun, Feb 21, 2016 at 9:11 AM, Lungimsam  wrote:

> That GB bar looks like a mini bosco. Whats the width?
>
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Re: [RBW] Re: Tips for how to better handle Selfish Drivers?

[Patrick Moore]

Don't let the bastards wear you down. End of quote. Niceness is all very
well, but confronting assholes with their assholery is not only a matter of
personal virtue, but a civic duty.

Good for you for making it plain that cyclists won't put up with that sort
of shit.

On Sun, Feb 21, 2016 at 7:45 AM, Ron Mc  wrote:

> if he had sent my daughter over the cliff, I would have hunted him down,
> house to house if necessary
>
>
> On Sunday, February 21, 2016 at 8:36:17 AM UTC-6, Ron Mc wrote:
>>
>> of you know no offense, Erl, but the order was correct with my teenage
>> daughter - after he passed her, I was the rider he chose to terrorize
>> further.
>>
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Re: [RBW] Reach and extension for stems at RBW

[René Sterental]

For the regular L shaped Nitto stems that RBW sells, since when installed
the extension is practically horizontal, the reach and extension will
match. For the Dirt Drop stems angled upwards, there was a post several
years ago with finely done calculations to establish their true reach. You
should be able to do a search to find it.

On Sunday, February 21, 2016, Joe Bernard  wrote:

> The standard measurement for stem length is the actual number from center
> of quill (fork for threadless) to center of clamp. No website that I'm
> familiar with lists a virtual reach number.
>
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[RBW] FS - Paul, Thompson, White Industries, Berthoud, Phil, Surly

[Tony DeFilippo]

Some parts need to move on to new homes... prices do not include shipping

Paul Mini-Moto's (one bikes worth - front/back), Black - $150

Thompson Elite Zero Setback Seatpost, silver - $50

White Industries Eno Crankset (175mm) with three (single speed) chain 
rings, 2x 34, 1x 36 - $175

27 1/4 Tandem Wheelset, 100mm/135mm, 48spokes each, rear wheel 6spd FW (FW 
included), Phil Wood Drag Brake included, ~32mm Continental Gatorskins 
included - $150

Berthoud Gray/Blue Saddlebag (largish wedge/banana style) - $50

700C Surly Single Speed Wheelset, 100mm/120mm, 32 spokes, ~18T fixed cog 
included - $85


Hit me up off-list with any questions/offers, I'm at home (DC area) this 
week and can ship immediately.  I'm not looking for anything particular in 
trades but it doesn't hurt to ask!  Thanks.

Tony


















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Re: [RBW] Re: RBW and Meaning

[Patrick Moore]

John -- what exactly do you design?

When I took my MBA courses some 18 years ago, one of the big buzzwords was
"perception of value" -- you want to convince customers that you are
providing "value," so that they will give you money. I thought it strange
that they emphasized "perception" and not "value," but the motive for this
focus is evident when you consider that, after all, most organization are
run "abstractly" by professional managers who "manage by numbers" and who
have no real contact with, let alone love for, the product or service that
their companies sell.

Here beginneth a spluttering rant: A entire way of life ("economy" is,
after all, a way of living, including a worldview) based on conning the
customer (buy at the highest price what we make at the lowest price even if
you don't really need or want it) can't be healthy, despite the very
obvious technological advances made by this system. It's essentially a
con-man paradigm.

Rivendell makes and sells what it loves. Some of those things are very
weird, but, to quote again, "we are product driven, not market driven."

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[RBW] Re: Wald's all around

[Deacon Patrick]

A case of baskets! Grin. They all look great!

With abandon,
Patrick

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[RBW] Re: Bike quiver update focusing on my A. Homer Hilsen

[Deacon Patrick]

I always love hearing 'bout the adventure! Whatever you decide, keep on 
having fun! Grin.

With abandon,
Patrick

On Saturday, February 20, 2016 at 9:10:16 PM UTC-7, René wrote:
>
> One of the benefits of downsizing in both number of bikes and body weight, 
> is that you can refocus on the bikes you have, while deciding what to do 
> next about the total number of bikes and other stuff one accumulates.
>

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Re: [RBW] Great deal in New Mexico (65cm Homer)

[James Warren]

Huge discount due to no headbadge? The AHH headbadge is so nice, that almost 
seems to make sense. I think the Homer headbadge was the first of the awesome 
ones that Riv started getting made in 2007 or (or maybe late '06)  and that 
we've been seeing ever since.


On Feb 21, 2016, at 11:22 AM, Belopsky wrote:

> http://lascruces.craigslist.org/bik/5452242886.html 
> 
> $875 homer
> 
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Re: [RBW] Great deal in New Mexico (65cm Homer)

[Patrick Moore]

I wonder if that belongs to someone I used to know, a big man for sure
(notorious for taking a track bike up into the Santa Monica hills 35 years
ago without brakes and crashing). Glad it's not in ABQ and that it's not a
58.

On Sun, Feb 21, 2016 at 12:22 PM, Belopsky 
wrote:

> *http://lascruces.craigslist.org/bik/5452242886.html
> *
>
> $875 homer
>
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*Kinei hos eromenon.* (*It moves [all things] as the beloved.) *Aristotle

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[RBW] Great deal in New Mexico (65cm Homer)

[Belopsky]

*http://lascruces.craigslist.org/bik/5452242886.html* 

$875 homer

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[RBW] Reach and extension for stems at RBW

[Joe Bernard]

The standard measurement for stem length is the actual number from center of 
quill (fork for threadless) to center of clamp. No website that I'm familiar 
with lists a virtual reach number. 

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[RBW] Re: RBW and Meaning

[Surlyprof]

This is great!  Thanks everyone for your thoughtful responses.  I feared 
that the idea of how, or if, we derive a sense of meaning from a product or 
a company may be too abstract.   This is something I have been wrestling 
with for a while now and I’m thrilled to see how others are responding to 
the topic.  Evan had a great suggestion as to how I might clarify the 
question.  His suggestion for another way to ask the question might be, “What 
does RBW means to you -- that is, what attracts you to it and how do you 
explain/account for that attraction?”  I think this was a nice way to ask 
the question (which is what happens when a writer writes it instead of a 
designer!).


I guess I should have thrown in my own take on the subject.  As a designer, 
I’ve worked for lots of companies where they created products that they may 
or may not have cared about.  Design choices were often driven by marketing 
reports and focus groups more than some sort of core beliefs.  The times 
I’ve loved my job the most were those where the company operated from their 
beliefs more than the latest focus group reports.  From my view, RBW seems 
to exist, promote and continue to evolve around things that Grant and 
others at RBW believe in.  He proves that taking a strong position in 
design may repel some but will also attract people with whom those beliefs 
and resulting products resonate.  As I often tell my students, the stronger 
position you take will increase the chances that you will alienate some 
people but it will also increase the depth of connection you may make with 
those with whom your designs resonate.  I admire that RBW believes in MUSA, 
steel, lugs, craft, wool, small manufacturers in Europe and Japan, etc.  My 
industry went through an “authenticity” kick in the early 2000’s but it 
struck me as an industry buzzword with no content backing it up.  RBW 
products don’t have to market authenticity, it just is.  I thought exposing 
students to this may reveal an option that many are unaware of when they 
come to design school.


With the exception of a few particularly unsettled years, I’ve always 
enjoyed cycling, did a little road and mountain racing, but mostly just 
enjoyed bikes and riding.  I’ve almost always ridden steel bikes, some 
lugged, some not.  As bike design became driven more by the racing world, 
the more I embraced my love of steel bikes.  When I was introduced to Grant 
and RBW, I had aluminum MTB I didn’t like and a tig-welded road bike I 
did.  The craftsmanship of Riv bikes represented a caring that I had been 
witnessing slip away in my industry.  The prices didn’t strike me as 
exorbitant since the craft was evident and I understood the value and costs 
associated with their production methods and low volumes.  When I finally 
bought my Hillborne, I saw it as analogous to purchasing a piece of finely 
crafted furniture.  Riding it clarifies what I always loved about using a 
bicycle for exercise, recreation and enhancing the sensory experience of 
getting where I need to go… as well as a few places I didn’t know I needed 
to go until I got there.  Riv products and bikes seem to align with my 
values as a designer and person.  In doing so, this helps clarify how I 
want to design and live going forward.  The Hillborne makes sure I don’t 
lose sight of that by revealing how fun it can be.


John

On Wednesday, February 17, 2016 at 4:10:42 PM UTC-8, Surlyprof wrote:
>
> For those of you who don’t know me, in addition to wanting a Rivendell 
> bicycle for years, owning a Hillborne for a year or two and being a member 
> of this group for over a year, I am also a professor of Industrial Design.  
> This semester I have been teaching my course entitled, “Design and 
> Meaning”.  The goal of the course is to prompt our students to explore 
> various roles that meaning plays in the industrial design profession.  A 
> portion of the time we look at the more artistic side of design and how 
> designers express ideas using industrial design as a medium for 
> expression.  Another aspect of the class covers semiotics and semantics and 
> how designers can utilize form to communicate function.  The third topic of 
> the course deals with meaning that people associate with and attach to the 
> built environment that surrounds them.  As one of the lectures, I’ve been 
> trying to pull together a lecture about RBW.  It seems to me that there are 
> interesting connections between RBW, Grant’s ideas and meaning for many of 
> us who own Rivendell bikes and accessories, belong to this group and/or the 
> Facebook group, and believe in a cycling lifestyle that may veer from 
> current mainstream bicycle culture. This is where my question lies… How 
> do you connect meaning (however you interpret that) with RBW, Grant’s 
> writings, bicycles in general and the design of bikes and other goods at 
> RBW (as well as B,B)?  Are there design choices made at RBW that boosts 
> that sense of meaning?  
>
>

Re: [RBW] FS: 65cm Homer Hilsen

[Jim Bronson]

close, but I think I really need the 67.

On Sat, Feb 13, 2016 at 3:48 PM, David Craig 
wrote:

> Hey, Folks.
>
> Haven't posted for quite awhile. I've been on a medically prompted hiatus
> from cycling for the past couple of years. The wife and I will be hitting
> the road in a couple of weeks for a year long sabbatical, and I've decided
> to pass on my HH to somebody who might be able to use it rather than store
> it.
>
> The bike is in great condition - pictured here:
> https://www.flickr.com/photos/45341162@N04/albums/72157626013424216
>
> Couple of changes from the picture - the bike no longer has a leather seat
> and it now sports a 7cm Nitto Technomic Deluxe stem instead of the riser -
> otherwise, it's the same bike pictured.
>
> I can provide detailed photos and build info to interested buyers. I'm
> looking for $1500.00 OBO for the entire bike. Quite a deal, but you'd need
> to be able to pick the bike up in central California. I don't have the time
> to ship it. I'm located in the Gold County near Yosemite and I'd be willing
> to drive to a couple of hours from here to deliver the bike.
>
> I've sold several items to list members over the years, so I believe I've
> got a good reputation as a straight shooter and honest guy.
>
> Remember, please reply via a PM instead of through the list. I'll get back
> to you ASAP.
>
> Dave
>
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[RBW] Re: Tips for how to better handle Selfish Drivers?

[Bruce]

While on the subject of bikes vs. cars, here's a bit of news from today's 
Lansing (MI) State Journal. It's encouraging, in that the bike rider won 
the case, but discouraging that a STATE POLICE trooper didn't know the law 
about bicyclists' rights.

"An avid bicyclist fought — and won — a $200 ticket he received from a 
Michigan State Police trooper who accused him of impeding traffic during a 
Sunday morning ride. Initially, a Livingston County District Court judge 
ruled against Tim Panagis, who appealed to the Circuit Court. There, Chief 
Judge David Reader . . .  dismissed the ticket, finding that Panagis 
complied with the law by riding as close to the edge way of the roadway as 
he could and finding that cyclists are permitted to ride two abreast as 
Panagis and his fellow bicyclists had done that day."


[BTW: Michigan state law says that bicyclists may NOT ride "more than two 
abreast," which is an indirect way of saying that they MAY ride two 
abreast, which most of us wouldn't dream of doing except on deserted roads, 
which this one was. The dash cam photos clearly show an empty road, they 
show the bicyclists forming single file when the trooper came up behind 
them, and they show the bicyclist giving a courtesy wave to the trooper 
that it was safe to pass.]


"Reader also noted that the roadway does not include the shoulder, and 
therefore, Panagis was not required to stay to the right of the white line 
as the trooper ordered. Reader also ruled the trooper had a duty to pass 
the cyclists at a safe distance, but did not do so, Gentilozzi said."




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[RBW] Reach and extension for stems at RBW

[BSWP]

Does anyone know how the stem sizes Riv lists correspond to actual reach 
and extension? I want to try a stem with less forward reach, and the 
descriptions don't indicate how this is measured, or if the sizes listed 
are for horizontal reach or absolute extension. This link is useful, even 
if for threadless stems. I wish RBW had something similar:

http://www.habcycles.com/fitting.html

Sheldon has good commentary on stems:

http://www.sheldonbrown.com/handsup.html

- Andrew, Berkeley

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[RBW] Wald's all around

[Tony DeFilippo]

Multiple projects have been converging since late fall last year and I've 
actually got the majority of my and my wife's bikes up and running 
simultaneously. As I was moving bikes around in the garage I realized I 
needed to share a photo of the four Wald 137 equipped bikes, from left to 
right - Bombadil, Clementine, XO-3 and Saluki.  That front basket makes a 
huge difference in being able to go bike to bike for commutes and errands. 
 The two hanging bikes are the sportier, rackless Jackson (mine) and 
Bianchi Brava (hers).






I also got the Bob Jackson out for a nice quick ride this morning and got 
some good shots at Jones Point Park. 









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[RBW] Re: Bike quiver update focusing on my A. Homer Hilsen

[Lungimsam]

That GB bar looks like a mini bosco. Whats the width?

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[RBW] Re: Tips for how to better handle Selfish Drivers?

[Steven Butcher]

Deacon, I'm pretty much the only bicycle commuter  in my little neck of the 
woods here in southwest Missouri.  I very rarely see another adult riding a 
bicycle in any circumstance.  The roads I ride are either two lane 
asphalt/chip seal or gravel.  Shoulders?  Ha!  Anyway, I'd estimate 95% of 
the automobile drivers given me a very wide berth when passing but the 
occasional driver comes somewhat uncomfortably close or, when passing me, 
the encroach on oncoming automobile traffic.  My riding habits are to ride 
as far to the right as I can safely ride and only take the lane as I 
approach a turn giving very deliberate hand signals.  I also go to great 
efforts to be seen using flashing lights, reflective flags, and high 
visibility clothing.  The 5% of the automobile drivers out there strike me 
as just being impatient and no willing to wait a few seconds for a safe 
passing lane.  I don't have any idea how to teach a person to be more 
patient.  If they did not learn it as children, they'll not likely learn it 
as adults.  

On Saturday, February 20, 2016 at 1:22:25 PM UTC-6, Deacon Patrick wrote:
>
> On narrow mountain roads we take the lane, riding in the right tire track. 
> Thus, cars no longer run us off the road, but instead pass us after going 
> to the oncoming lane. That works great when there is clear sight line and 
> no oncoming traffic. Far too often, entitled drivers pass us anywhere, when 
> it is either a blind curve or there is clear oncoming traffic. This 
> happened 4 times this morning just getting out of our small mountain town 
> on y ride with our two eldest lassies. Four times oncoming traffic was 
> forced to stop and/or pull over for selfish drivers.
>
> Whenever I see this situation is about to happen, I try to signal the 
> driver coming up behind me (I always ride at the end of the bike line) by 
> putting my left hand out in the "Caution, slow" signal and if I hear them 
> still passing, I wave them back. This has caused a driver to slow down 
> exactly once out of countless times.
>
> Any ideas how to help the situation be smoother/better?
>
> With abandon,
> Patrick
>

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[RBW] Re: Bike quiver update focusing on my A. Homer Hilsen

[MartyG]

>
> The AHH has always been one of my favorite Rivendell models, although I've 
> never owned one. Someday...
>

Great post and great photos of all your bikes. I hope to fiddle my way to 
the ideal mixup of parts on a couple of my bikes this year. It's a game of 
Pin the Tail on the Donkey, hide and seek, where's Waldo and Frustration! 
all rolled into one pleasant pastime. 

>
> Photos prove that the story is real (click to the right to see the details 
> of the handlebars): 
> https://www.flickr.com/photos/orthie251/24532732053/in/album-72157622508702300/
>
>
>

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[RBW] Re: Tips for how to better handle Selfish Drivers?

[Ron Mc]

Well over 99% of drivers are going to respond well to all we do.  The 
blinkies are polite for all drivers, but are especially useful to alter the 
dim-witted ones.  For the much less than 1% means drivers, our only hope is 
an escape plan.  

My friend rides in the broken glass and storm drain scoops, but I will 
always be far enough out to challenge for the lane and make drivers think.  

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[RBW] FS: 60cm Bombadil Complete

[Justin Schoop]

Price $2300

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[RBW] Re: Tips for how to better handle Selfish Drivers?

[WETH]

Patrick,
As part of a longer family trip this summer, we drove our car from Wichita, KS 
to Alomogordo, NM on US 54 a two lane highway much of the way.  I had to brake 
and prepare for evasive action several times when other cars were passing me or 
passing on coming vehicles when it was not safe to do so!  All to say bad 
drivers are everywhere, and I never thought it the fault of anyone but the 
motorist passing irresponsibly.  However, drivers do like to blame cyclists.  

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[RBW] Re: FS: 65cm Homer Hilsen

[David Banzer]

I'd buy it if shipping was a possibility. I don't suppose any listers could 
assist with this?
David
Chicago

On Friday, February 19, 2016 at 6:52:41 PM UTC-6, David Craig wrote:
>
> Dropping the price to $1300.
>
> On Saturday, February 13, 2016 at 1:48:59 PM UTC-8, David Craig wrote:
>>
>> Hey, Folks.
>>
>> Haven't posted for quite awhile. I've been on a medically prompted hiatus 
>> from cycling for the past couple of years. The wife and I will be hitting 
>> the road in a couple of weeks for a year long sabbatical, and I've decided 
>> to pass on my HH to somebody who might be able to use it rather than store 
>> it.
>>
>> The bike is in great condition - pictured here: 
>> https://www.flickr.com/photos/45341162@N04/albums/72157626013424216
>>
>> Couple of changes from the picture - the bike no longer has a leather 
>> seat and it now sports a 7cm Nitto Technomic Deluxe stem instead of the 
>> riser - otherwise, it's the same bike pictured.
>>
>> I can provide detailed photos and build info to interested buyers. I'm 
>> looking for $1500.00 OBO for the entire bike. Quite a deal, but you'd need 
>> to be able to pick the bike up in central California. I don't have the time 
>> to ship it. I'm located in the Gold County near Yosemite and I'd be willing 
>> to drive to a couple of hours from here to deliver the bike.
>>
>> I've sold several items to list members over the years, so I believe I've 
>> got a good reputation as a straight shooter and honest guy. 
>>
>> Remember, please reply via a PM instead of through the list. I'll get 
>> back to you ASAP.
>>
>> Dave
>>
>

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[RBW] Re: Tips for how to better handle Selfish Drivers?

[Ron Mc]

Deac, I also take the lane, and move to the right when it's safe to pass

On Sunday, February 21, 2016 at 9:03:22 AM UTC-6, Deacon Patrick wrote:
>
> Thanks all!
>
> To be clear: taking the lane works wonders. That's the point that leads to 
> my question:
>
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Tips for how to better handle Selfish Drivers?

[Ron Mc]

as do many of us here

On Sunday, February 21, 2016 at 8:57:11 AM UTC-6, Steve Palincsar wrote:
>
>
> Do you live and ride in an open-carry state? 
>
>
>

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[RBW] Re: Tips for how to better handle Selfish Drivers?

[WETH]

Ron,
No offense taken.  In your situation it was good that you were in the lead.  I 
was thinking more of blind curves and hills with distracted drivers who are on 
top of cyclists before they know it.  In your case and Patrick's case of 
drivers passing and cutting in, it makes sense to have an adult up front.  When 
my wife joins us, we put the children in the middle.

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[RBW] Re: Tips for how to better handle Selfish Drivers?

[Deacon Patrick]

Thanks all!

To be clear: taking the lane works wonders. That's the point that leads to 
my question:

-- I take the lane (not for a short while, for miles, as there is no 
shoulder)
-- Cars coming up behind move one lane over to pass, (almost) every time. 
It's working brilliantly this past year!
-- Some selfish drivers are putting everyone in danger because they see me 
and pass in the other lane without regard for if it is clear to pass or not.

So the issue isn't visibility (I am easily seen every time, even with just 
the wee safety triangle on the back of my bike (which I supplement with a 
visibility vest or safety triangle sometimes).

It's wondering if there is a way to cut through the selfish entitlement of 
some drivers to pass without regard of oncoming traffic. As Michael said, 
not much short term, other than the temptation of Ron's slug to the block 
(I crave for a pocket EMP device to shorts the spark plugs). So far the 
danger is minimal as this happens most prevalently in town (on remote 
roads, drivers are very thoughtful), but still, the risk of car to car 
collision or avoidance maneuvers to avoid it could easily impact the 
"instigating" cyclist. And, I often wonder, though I wave and smile at the 
drivers as they pass, if they realize it is the passing driver at fault and 
not me.

With abandon,
Patrick

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Re: [RBW] Re: Tips for how to better handle Selfish Drivers?

[Steve Palincsar]

On 02/21/2016 08:14 AM, Ron Mc wrote:


There are also flat-mean rednecks out here who resent the weekend city 
invasion, and think driving dangerously around bikes is cute.  One day 
a p/u driver was honking at my daughter behind me on a blind bluff 
climb and when he passed me in the very clear, he was 4 inches from me 
with a shear drop to my right.  I flipped him off yelling 4-feet is 
the law.  He stopped.  When I caught up to the little napoleonic f***, 
He was telling me how he hates us city people.  When I told him I live 
here, he called me a liar.  I told him I live on Buck Lane and asked 
him to visit.  He called me some name and drove off.  I don't ride 
that road any more.  But even the climb I take to dodge it, there are 
still intentional mean, dangerous idiots.  On a long, fast clear-view 
decent, I was doing the speed limit and a truck passed me within 6 
inches and could have easily given me the proper berth.  I'm tempted 
to get a shoulder holster for my hog-leg Smith and wear it as a backpack.





Do you live and ride in an open-carry state?


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[RBW] Re: Tips for how to better handle Selfish Drivers?

[Ron Mc]

if he had sent my daughter over the cliff, I would have hunted him down, 
house to house if necessary

On Sunday, February 21, 2016 at 8:36:17 AM UTC-6, Ron Mc wrote:
>
> of you know no offense, Erl, but the order was correct with my teenage 
> daughter - after he passed her, I was the rider he chose to terrorize 
> further.  
>

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[RBW] Re: Tips for how to better handle Selfish Drivers?

[Ron Mc]

of you know no offense, Erl, but the order was correct with my teenage 
daughter - after he passed her, I was the rider he chose to terrorize 
further.  

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[RBW] Re: Tips for how to better handle Selfish Drivers?

[WETH]

Ron, I think I see a new line of Sackville bags: the hog-leg!
:)
Deacon,
Some great tips already have been offered that I employ including hand gestures 
to get cars to slow and wait as well as wearing bright colors and using blinky 
lights.
One other thing I do is to festoon my bike and bags with American flags.  Since 
embracing this I have been treated more respectfully on the road.  It's not a 
panacea, but I have perceived less hostility.  I have many theories to why, but 
those are less important than the positive effect it has had,  photo here of my 
commuting setup: https://flic.kr/p/AwopXg
With Safe cycling wishes,
Erl
PS: if you don't already, then I would recommend your children ride in between 
you and your wife.  When I ride with my sons alone, I ride last in line in the 
hope that I am more visible as I am larger and also if a careless driver 
happens upon us, I am hit and not my sons. 

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[RBW] Re: Tips for how to better handle Selfish Drivers?

[Ron Mc]

and we should all make 4 fingers in their rear view mirror our mantra - 
because they always check their accomplishments in the mirror

On Sunday, February 21, 2016 at 7:58:59 AM UTC-6, Ron Mc wrote:
>
> Also correcting my memory above - I didn't flip off Napoleon - I was 
> holding up 4 fingers for 4 feet
>

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[RBW] Re: Tips for how to better handle Selfish Drivers?

[Ron Mc]

Also correcting my memory above - I didn't flip off Napoleon - I was 
holding up 4 fingers for 4 feet

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[RBW] Re: Tips for how to better handle Selfish Drivers?

[Ron Mc]

of course I'm less than half serious.  Though it would be legal here, the 
calibre was designed for killing engine blocks, and since I don't have a 
concealed carry permit, the law would be lenient to me in a self-defense 
argument.  The reason I don't do it is because I don't want to tempt myself 
any further. 

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[RBW] Re: Tips for how to better handle Selfish Drivers?

[Ron Mc]

blinkies - can't get too many - tail light plus helmet. The point is to 
help them identify you as early as possible and give them the maximum 
amount of time to think clearly.  
In town, there's a greenway that crosses an intersection at the junction of 
a 5-lane thoroughfare with a controlled access highway.  Bikes have to 
cross the right-turn ramps to get to the crosswalk signal.  I use a front 
helmet blinkie and turn it on as I approach that intersection, and turn it 
back off when I leave (I run the separate headlight solid on the greenway - 
it's not polite to blinkie bright lights at pedestrians).  .  

Out here, hordes of city cyclists and clubs come out to ride the 
semi-rural, twisty-bit, no-shoulder macadam.  Most of the drivers out here 
are used to it, and respond very well to hand signals.  I give them the 
slow signal, and they will not pass on a blind sweeper.  As soon as I can 
see, I give them the thumbs up if it's clear - many still won't pass until 
they can see the clear.  

There are also flat-mean rednecks out here who resent the weekend city 
invasion, and think driving dangerously around bikes is cute.  One day a 
p/u driver was honking at my daughter behind me on a blind bluff climb and 
when he passed me in the very clear, he was 4 inches from me with a shear 
drop to my right.  I flipped him off yelling 4-feet is the law.  He 
stopped.  When I caught up to the little napoleonic f***, He was telling me 
how he hates us city people.  When I told him I live here, he called me a 
liar.  I told him I live on Buck Lane and asked him to visit.  He called me 
some name and drove off.  I don't ride that road any more.  But even the 
climb I take to dodge it, there are still intentional mean, dangerous 
idiots.  On a long, fast clear-view decent, I was doing the speed limit and 
a truck passed me within 6 inches and could have easily given me the proper 
berth.  I'm tempted to get a shoulder holster for my hog-leg Smith and wear 
it as a backpack.  

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Re: [RBW] Rear derailer on my Hillborne

[islaysteve]

If you have downtube shifter bosses on the frame you can get Shimano cable 
adjusters to fit over them, these are used with STI shifters.  VO also 
sells some Dajia ones (don't look as nice as Shimano) for $10.  If you 
don't have shifter bosses, you can as Rene has said install inline 
adjusters in your cables.  I have these on my Bleriot and they work pretty 
well, they are unobtrusive.  You LBS may have some, or there are several 
kinds on the internet. If you're friction shifting you may be able to get 
by without them altogether, since you use the shifters to fine tune the 
chain position. 
Steve




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[RBW] Re: Removing shellac on paint

[islaysteve]

Drew, I'd try polishing compounds, starting with the gentlest, toothpaste.  
Rub it on with a damp cloth, wipe with soft cloth. (actually, you could 
probably skip the toothpaste at go to:)  Next up would be automotive 
cleaner/wax.  If it says cleaner, it should have a mild abrasive.  Finally, 
I would try automotive white rubbing compound, make sure it says fine or 
something like that.  This should not harm your paint, but be careful, try 
an inconspicuous area, etc.  Good luck, Steve


On Saturday, February 20, 2016 at 11:57:12 AM UTC-5, drew wrote:
>
> I worked a couple of bikes through handlebar swaps and got apparently got 
> a little carried away with shellacking, but didn't notice/care for about a 
> week. Tried denatured alcohol and it sorts of worked for some thicker 
> spots, but the thinner areas are giving me grief. Now it seems like the 
> removal process is dulling the paint in the frustrating area. 
>
> So what do you use to remove shellac?
>
> Is there a wax or polish that people use to protect or restore paint on 
> bikes?
> Also, I do get the beausage thing. Battlescars and stuff I can abide, but 
> this is just sloppy work on my part.
>
>

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[RBW] Tips for how to better handle Selfish Drivers?

[Joe Bernard]

I've had a surprising amount of success with the "one moment, please" signal. 
What I do is look back to make eye contact - this means "Hi, I'm a person 
communicating with you" - then hold up one finger while moving left more to 
stipulate "I'm not conceding this lane yet." We get through the sticky part, 
then I dart right and wave them through. Drivers seem to appreciate being drawn 
into the procedure, like we're both doing this together and will be safely on 
our way soon. 

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