Re: [RBW] Re: When is a bike old?

[Steve Palincsar]

On 02/28/2017 07:47 PM, Patrick Moore wrote:
I get the "How old is that bike?" question occasionally, but much more 
often I get the "Wow, what a nice bike!" exclamation for both of my 
Rivs, and from a surprising variety of exclaimers -- experienced 
riders but also ordinary citizens. The Rivs are 18 and 14 years old 
respectively, but I don't consider them any older in a functional 
sense or even aesthetic sense than my 2016 Matthews.


If old means "worn out," then any bike that has been ridden until worn 
out is old. If old means outdated as to performance, then I'd say you 
have to go back at least to the mid '80s because of clipless pedals 
and aero levers and cassettes and slant parallelogram derailleurs; at 
least, that's when they became common.


But how hard is it to install clipless pedals and slant paralleogram 
derailleurs on a bike?  So 10 minutes work and that 55 year old bike is 
now "new"?




I believe that these inventions were real benefits to cycling. If 
"old" means simply "around many years," then any date is rather 
arbitrary, no? Or at best, simply relative to something that came 
earlier. New College, Oxford was founded in 1379, New College, Florida 
in 1960.


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Re: [RBW] Re: thunder burt snakeskin vs raceguard

[Steve Palincsar]

On 02/28/2017 07:50 PM, Patrick Moore wrote:

But doesn't it come in wire or folding bead?


No, the 32-369 is folding bead only.  As I said, no choices whatsoever.


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Re: [RBW] Re: thunder burt snakeskin vs raceguard

[Patrick Moore]

Just to one of his elves.

On Tue, Feb 28, 2017 at 5:58 PM, 'Mark in Beacon' via RBW Owners Bunch <
rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com> wrote:

> You spoke to Herr Schwalbe?!! Please tell him it's all Greek to me.
>
> On Tuesday, February 28, 2017 at 7:50:45 PM UTC-5, Patrick Moore wrote:
>>
>> Schwalbe told me that both bead types had the same casing, though.
>>
>>
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Re: [RBW] Re: thunder burt snakeskin vs raceguard

['Mark in Beacon' via RBW Owners Bunch]

You spoke to Herr Schwalbe?!! Please tell him it's all Greek to me.

On Tuesday, February 28, 2017 at 7:50:45 PM UTC-5, Patrick Moore wrote:
>
> Schwalbe told me that both bead types had the same casing, though.
>
>
>

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Re: [RBW] Albatross bar slipping

[Patrick Moore]

Loctite will often work (I've used blue), as will a shim, which can be cut
from a beverage can.

I recall once long ago, I had a Raleigh Sprite with a steel stem and steel
North Road bar that I'd flipped. It slipped when I hit bumps. I took it
into a Dupont Circle bike shop and said, plaintively, "It slips." A burly
mechanic picked up a box wrench, gave me a reassuring look, and said, "It
won't slip any more." It didn't, either.

If you haven't liberally lubed the female threads on the stem, you might
try that and try torquing the clamp down harder.

On Tue, Feb 28, 2017 at 2:46 PM, CMR  wrote:

> Love my albatross bars with a threadless 4-bolt stem, but having issues
> with them slipping on my 25.4 130mm Nitto techomic stem, nothing funny.
> They will slip down a bit on my single speed when standing on the cranks
> starting from a stop light. Nothing dangerous, but annoying and always a
> surprise.
>
> Friction paste? New bars? Keep on riding? Any one else have the issue?
>
> Thanks!
> Chris
> Oakland, CA
>
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Re: [RBW] Re: thunder burt snakeskin vs raceguard

[Patrick Moore]

But doesn't it come in wire or folding bead? At least, the 559 equivalent
used to come with either. Schwalbe told me that both bead types had the
same casing, though.

On Tue, Feb 28, 2017 at 4:09 PM, Steve Palincsar  wrote:

> Reading this thread makes me *so* glad that the only Schwalbe tire that I
> use, the Kojak in 32-369, comes exactly and only in one way.  And it is
> currently the *only* tire made in that size.  It sure does make shopping
> for tires for my Moulton easy.  It's a really good thing that it's an
> excellent tire!
>
> On 02/28/2017 06:01 PM, Garth wrote:
>
> To add to the confusion though, the label says TL-ready, which is the 
> previous generation term for tubeless ready. Now tubless ready is listed as 
> TL-easy. Yes, the number matches the current version w/raceguard but since 
> these are previous generation stock, it may or may not have been raceguard, 
> and if it was raceguard the label should not be stating TL-ready!
>
>
>
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**
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circumference on the contours of which all conditions, distinctions, and
individualities revolve. *Chuang Tzu

*Stat crux dum volvitur orbis.* *(The cross stands motionless while the
world revolves.) *Carthusian motto

*It is *we *who change; *He* remains the same.* Eckhart

*Kinei hos eromenon.* (*It moves [all things] as the beloved.) *Aristotle

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Re: [RBW] Albatross bar slipping

[Jason Hartman]

I have found that swept back bars such as the albatross need to have the
stem bolt torqued much tighter to keep from slipping. Sometimes
disconsortingly so. My albatross slipped when the stem was torqued to spec.
In such cases, i try to find a stem with a through bolt, and not one that
relies on aluminum for threading.

Jay Hartman
On Tue, Feb 28, 2017 at 6:52 PM Eric Norris  wrote:

> I suggested friction paste to my mechanic for a similar problem, and he
> quickly pooh-poohed that idea. There’s got to be a mechanical fix to your
> issue.
>
>
> --Eric Norris
> campyonly...@me.com
> @CampyOnlyguy (Twitter/Instagram)
>
> On Feb 28, 2017, at 1:46 PM, CMR  wrote:
>
> Love my albatross bars with a threadless 4-bolt stem, but having issues
> with them slipping on my 25.4 130mm Nitto techomic stem, nothing funny.
> They will slip down a bit on my single speed when standing on the cranks
> starting from a stop light. Nothing dangerous, but annoying and always a
> surprise.
>
> Friction paste? New bars? Keep on riding? Any one else have the issue?
>
> Thanks!
> Chris
> Oakland, CA
>
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Re: [RBW] Re: When is a bike old?

[Patrick Moore]

I get the "How old is that bike?" question occasionally, but much more
often I get the "Wow, what a nice bike!" exclamation for both of my Rivs,
and from a surprising variety of exclaimers -- experienced riders but also
ordinary citizens. The Rivs are 18 and 14 years old respectively, but I
don't consider them any older in a functional sense or even aesthetic sense
than my 2016 Matthews.

If old means "worn out," then any bike that has been ridden until worn out
is old. If old means outdated as to performance, then I'd say you have to
go back at least to the mid '80s because of clipless pedals and aero levers
and cassettes and slant parallelogram derailleurs; at least, that's when
they became common. I believe that these inventions were real benefits to
cycling. If "old" means simply "around many years," then any date is rather
arbitrary, no? Or at best, simply relative to something that came earlier.
New College, Oxford was founded in 1379, New College, Florida in 1960.

On Tue, Feb 28, 2017 at 4:31 PM, iamkeith  wrote:

> I dont receive the misinformed "must be old" comments as often as i do the
> misinformed "must be heavy and difficult to ride" comments.  So really
> thinking about this for the first time, it occurs to me that there is
> probably a hidden silver lining here.  If average joe crook thinks my AR is
> just some old relic, they might be more inclined to pass it up for the
> plastic bike chained next to it.
>
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**
**
*The point which is the pivot of the norm is the motionless center of a
circumference on the contours of which all conditions, distinctions, and
individualities revolve. *Chuang Tzu

*Stat crux dum volvitur orbis.* *(The cross stands motionless while the
world revolves.) *Carthusian motto

*It is *we *who change; *He* remains the same.* Eckhart

*Kinei hos eromenon.* (*It moves [all things] as the beloved.) *Aristotle

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[RBW] Re: Kogswell P vs. Rambouillet

[Fullylugged]

GP feels his designs evolve over time, but my love is for the early stuff.  A 
95 Road (the level TT before the Standard model came out) and the Ram are great 
riding road bikes.  Never had a Rom but the Ram is nowhere close to mushy.  

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RE: [RBW] Re: Kogswell P vs. Rambouillet

[bruce.herbitter]

Actually, the two are very close, but exactly the same. The 2007 RBW chart 
(which covers the blue period) shows a BB drop of 77, while the P is 76. Rake 
on the Ram is 4.25 while it is 4.3 on the P. The tubes are different suppliers, 
and the Kog page doesn’t give the thicknesses. They are super similar though.

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

From: Don Compton
Sent: Monday, February 27, 2017 5:03 PM
To: RBW Owners Bunch
Subject: [RBW] Re: Kogswell P vs. Rambouillet

Wow, the 60 cm Kogswell P's geometry is identical to my old blue 60 cm 
Rambouillet.

On Sunday, February 26, 2017 at 9:19:00 PM UTC-8, eflayer wrote:
The truth be told:

http://yojimg.net/bike/kogswell/kogswell_docs/Model%20P/Model%20P.pdf

On Sunday, February 26, 2017 at 6:22:41 AM UTC-8, Fullylugged wrote:
Saw an ebay listing for a 62cm Kogswell P and the ad copy stated it was an 
exact copy of the Rambouillet geometry. IIRC, the P was only made briefly, used 
lugs and HT tubes out of Taiwan.  Does anyone know if was in fact a close 
relative or truly an exact copy? 
Hard to believe, but the Ram took a "nap" about 10 years ago now and still 
hasn't woken up :)  I saw an Orange 55 CM frame here on the list this week and 
ALMOST bought it. It is truly a big too big though, even if I built it as a 
650B. I hope someone who will enjoy its ride gets it and builds it up. 
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[RBW] Re: When is a bike old?

[Ron Mc]

I came in 3rd on last weekend's group ride, which ends with a pretty long 
climb.  
One of the later arrivals stood and looked at my fendered International for 
several minutes.  Didn't say anything, I think he was disbelieving.  



It was big bag and all, because we had a cold morning and potential rain, 
so I had layers and weather shell packed - changed my knee socks for 
shorties at the halfway stop.  

The guy on the ride who teased me about the bag finished really late and 
red.  All cool, we were having fun - he asked if I packed lunch for 
everybody, and I told him I had a watermelon in there.  



On Tuesday, February 28, 2017 at 5:31:56 PM UTC-6, iamkeith wrote:
>
> I dont receive the misinformed "must be old" comments as often as i do the 
> misinformed "must be heavy and difficult to ride" comments.  So really 
> thinking about this for the first time, it occurs to me that there is 
> probably a hidden silver lining here.  If average joe crook thinks my AR is 
> just some old relic, they might be more inclined to pass it up for the 
> plastic bike chained next to it. 

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Re: [RBW] Albatross bar slipping

[Eric Norris]

I suggested friction paste to my mechanic for a similar problem, and he quickly 
pooh-poohed that idea. There’s got to be a mechanical fix to your issue.

--Eric Norris
campyonly...@me.com
@CampyOnlyguy (Twitter/Instagram)

> On Feb 28, 2017, at 1:46 PM, CMR  wrote:
> 
> Love my albatross bars with a threadless 4-bolt stem, but having issues with 
> them slipping on my 25.4 130mm Nitto techomic stem, nothing funny. They will 
> slip down a bit on my single speed when standing on the cranks starting from 
> a stop light. Nothing dangerous, but annoying and always a surprise.
> 
> Friction paste? New bars? Keep on riding? Any one else have the issue?
> 
> Thanks!
> Chris
> Oakland, CA
> 
> -- 
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[RBW] FS: 62cm Sam Hillborne

[Will Ashe]

Update: I've only posted this here for now. I'd rather sell my bike to a list 
member. That being said I'm lowering the price to $2300 obo. 

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[RBW] Re: Kogswell P vs. Rambouillet

[Sky Coulter]

For what it's worth, I've found my romulus to be a nice, quick road bike 
that can do a little bit more. Great handling, comfortable geometry and 
I've never felt it held me back in comparison to another bicycle.  My only 
complaint about it is the toe overlap with the front wheel, but I find it's 
responsive to all inputs -- the only 'mushy' aspect of mine is the engine.

Sky in new west

On Tuesday, February 28, 2017 at 5:15:15 AM UTC-8, Chris in Redding, Ca. 
wrote:
>
> Hey All,
> I owned a second gen Model P and also a Romulus. I found the Romulus to be 
> over tubed. There must also be some differences in the tubeset because the 
> Rom felt mushy when pushed hard compared to the Model P and other similar 
> steel road frames I have owned. The Model P was a kick in the pants to ride 
> unloaded and kept it's composure when lightly loaded or pushed hard. The 
> geometry between them was at least real close...that I remember from 
> reading the charts way back then. The lugs are unique and from Matt Grimm 
> from his 'lugged' days. Last I spoke to Matt he was hanging out in Berkeley 
> Ca. 
>
> Smooth Tracks,
> Chris
> Redding, Ca.
>

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[RBW] Albatross bar slipping

[CMR]

Love my albatross bars with a threadless 4-bolt stem, but having issues 
with them slipping on my 25.4 130mm Nitto techomic stem, nothing funny. 
They will slip down a bit on my single speed when standing on the cranks 
starting from a stop light. Nothing dangerous, but annoying and always a 
surprise.

Friction paste? New bars? Keep on riding? Any one else have the issue?

Thanks!
Chris
Oakland, CA

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[RBW] Re: When is a bike old?

[iamkeith]

I dont receive the misinformed "must be old" comments as often as i do the 
misinformed "must be heavy and difficult to ride" comments.  So really thinking 
about this for the first time, it occurs to me that there is probably a hidden 
silver lining here.  If average joe crook thinks my AR is just some old relic, 
they might be more inclined to pass it up for the plastic bike chained next to 
it. 

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[RBW] Re: thunder burt snakeskin vs raceguard

[drew]

a funny thing happened while i was hemming and hawing over which version to 
get. i found some wtb 29er nanos for 12$ each. i have no doubt they are a 
lesser tire, but i think they'll do for the weekend. i wonder how many 
people schwalbe loses to indecipherability. 






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Re: [RBW] Re: thunder burt snakeskin vs raceguard

[Steve Palincsar]

Reading this thread makes me /so/ glad that the only Schwalbe tire that 
I use, the Kojak in 32-369, comes exactly and only in one way.  And it 
is currently the /only/ tire made in that size.  It sure does make 
shopping for tires for my Moulton easy.  It's a really good thing that 
it's an excellent tire!



On 02/28/2017 06:01 PM, Garth wrote:

To add to the confusion though, the label says TL-ready, which is the previous 
generation term for tubeless ready. Now tubless ready is listed as TL-easy. 
Yes, the number matches the current version w/raceguard but since these are 
previous generation stock, it may or may not have been raceguard, and if it was 
raceguard the label should not be stating TL-ready!



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Re: [RBW] Re: thunder burt snakeskin vs raceguard

[Garth]

And too only the liteskin model is listed @395g for the 26x2.1, so the label 
seem to fit in line with everything else written by Schwalbe.confusing. 

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Re: [RBW] Re: thunder burt snakeskin vs raceguard

[Garth]

To add to the confusion though, the label says TL-ready, which is the previous 
generation term for tubeless ready. Now tubless ready is listed as TL-easy. 
Yes, the number matches the current version w/raceguard but since these are 
previous generation stock, it may or may not have been raceguard, and if it was 
raceguard the label should not be stating TL-ready! 

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Re: [RBW] Re: thunder burt snakeskin vs raceguard

['Mark in Beacon' via RBW Owners Bunch]

GoWould it be so hard to put that on the label or box somewhere? And then 
it says this on the website:

 
Tubeless Easy Snakeskin 

 

Standard in our Evo tires! The SnakeSkin material assures cut-resistant 
sidewalls and extremely easy Tubeless conversion.

So my tires are Liteskin according to the catalog #, which makes them very 
hard to seal when going tubeless. Yet mine say Tubeless Ready, and 
apparently, ALL the EVO tires come standard with Snakeskin! Well okay then!

On Tuesday, February 28, 2017 at 5:30:30 PM UTC-5, sameness wrote:
>
> Per Schwalbe site 
> , 
> Art. No. 11600532 = 54-559 (26 x 2.10 ) - LiteSkin - PaceStar - Black
>
>
> Jeff Hagedorn
>
> Los Angeles, CA USA
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Kogswell P vs. Rambouillet

['Mark in Beacon' via RBW Owners Bunch]

I would say the Ram went in two directions, and not terribly far in either: 
The AHH, and the Rodeo. The main difference with the AHH is bigger tires, 
though it may be that even the Rodeo can clear more than the Ram. The Rodeo 
chainstays are about the same as Ram, but ever so slightly steeper seat 
angle. And of course the AHH has chainstays a couple centimeters longer 
than the Ram, and is equally rackable without p-clamping. I would take a 
guess that the tubesets of the Ram and AHH are similar if not the same, 
while the Rodeo is a touch thinner. Disclaimer: I've only ridden one of 
these, and not for very long. So, yeah. With steel the OLD is not so 
critical, but I believe it is 132 for Ram, 135 for AHH, 130 for Rodeo. All 
in all, the AHH probably carries more Rambouillet DNA than the Rodeo (which 
IIRC was designed with a bit of help from Waterford).

On Tuesday, February 28, 2017 at 5:12:47 PM UTC-5, Tim Gavin wrote:
>
> The Road Standard had smaller tire clearance due to short-reach brakes.  
> The Roadeo specs medium-reach brakes, and it will fit a 700 x 36 tire 
> comfortably.
>
> My Road Standard also has upper rack eyelets on the seat stays, where the 
> Roadeo does not.  Of course, you can mount a rear rack to the Roadeo using 
> a diving board to the brake bolt, or clamps.
>
> I'm pretty sure the Roadeo has 130 mm OLD.
>
>
>
> On Tue, Feb 28, 2017 at 4:03 PM, Steve Palincsar  > wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> On 02/28/2017 04:38 PM, Bill Lindsay wrote:
>>
>>> What could you do on a Rambouillet that you can't do on a Roadeo?
>>>
>>
>> 1) you could buy it for under a thousand dollars, IIRC vs over twice that 
>> for the Roadeo
>>
>> 2) the Rambouillet had seat stay rack mounts.  I can't tell for sure, but 
>> it doesn't look like the Roadeo has them.   Riv's web site says of the 
>> Roadeo "Basically, it's not a "light touring" bike, or anything of the 
>> sort," while the Rambouillet did that job pretty well by all accounts.  
>> (Now that doesn't say you couldn't clamp on a rack and go touring with the 
>> Roadeo, people did that with road racers during the Bicentennial, but "Just 
>> Because You Can Doesn't Mean You Should.")
>>
>> 3) use a 135mm OLN rear wheel?  (at least I think I remember the 
>> Rambouillet came with a 132mm go-either-way spacing)
>>
>>
>> In my mind, those two models are functionally identical, and you can buy 
>>> a Roadeo if you want a Rivendell and want a 'not-dumb' stripped down road 
>>> bike.  Rivendell also selling country bikes has not displaced the nice road 
>>> bike.
>>>
>>
>> Pretty much, isn't the Roadeo the functional equivalent of the old Road 
>> Standard also?
>>
>>
>>
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>
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Re: [RBW] Re: New tires, perhaps?

[dougP]

" I get a kick out of crashing over bumps without rising out of the saddle. 
There's something amusing about it. You should try it. But maybe not on 
Velocity rims."

A girl's gotta fun, right?  Just opt up for a heavy duty touring rim.  I 
have no experience with the manufacturer in question, but "crashing over 
bumps" is at the extreme end of the technical envelope.  

Data point:  Two of my touring buds have identical, purpose built trekking 
bikes.  One is at least 10 yrs old, and is on the original wheels.  He 
weighs 175, and is not particularly easy on things.  The other guy is on 
his 3rd rear wheel, and opted for a heavy duty, tandem rim with a high 
spoke count (40 or 48?).  He weighs 235, and does a lot of bashing over 
stuff.  

dougP

On Tuesday, February 28, 2017 at 1:07:10 PM UTC-8, LeahFoy wrote:
>
> This is all very fascinating. Interesting that Steve has also had the 
> Velocity wheels go bad on him. I honestly had no idea Velocity has a 
> history of problems with the rims or I might have contacted them. I noticed 
> today the front wheel is still the Velocity I had prior; no cracks, but 
> I'll be watching.
>
> Maybe I'm harder on stuff than you guys are. I remember you all being 
> confused that I had bent a Wald basket, but it is indeed good and bent. And 
> then there's the shifter I also seem to have worn out. Oh, and maybe I had 
> it coming with the broken wheel. I get a kick out of crashing over bumps 
> without rising out of the saddle. There's something amusing about it. You 
> should try it. But maybe not on Velocity rims.
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Kogswell P vs. Rambouillet

[Bill Lindsay]

I can totally sympathize with price increase woes.  A great steel frameset 
will outlive ANY of us, though, so it's still a bargain.  If you know 
you'll get bored and dump it far sooner and care more about re-sale value, 
wait for a used one.  

Bill Lindsay
El Cerrito, CA

On Tuesday, February 28, 2017 at 2:03:16 PM UTC-8, Steve Palincsar wrote:
>
>
>
> On 02/28/2017 04:38 PM, Bill Lindsay wrote: 
> > What could you do on a Rambouillet that you can't do on a Roadeo? 
>
> 1) you could buy it for under a thousand dollars, IIRC vs over twice 
> that for the Roadeo 
>
> 2) the Rambouillet had seat stay rack mounts.  I can't tell for sure, 
> but it doesn't look like the Roadeo has them.   Riv's web site says of 
> the Roadeo "Basically, it's not a "light touring" bike, or anything of 
> the sort," while the Rambouillet did that job pretty well by all 
> accounts.  (Now that doesn't say you couldn't clamp on a rack and go 
> touring with the Roadeo, people did that with road racers during the 
> Bicentennial, but "Just Because You Can Doesn't Mean You Should.") 
>
> 3) use a 135mm OLN rear wheel?  (at least I think I remember the 
> Rambouillet came with a 132mm go-either-way spacing) 
>
>
> > In my mind, those two models are functionally identical, and you can 
> > buy a Roadeo if you want a Rivendell and want a 'not-dumb' stripped 
> > down road bike.  Rivendell also selling country bikes has not 
> > displaced the nice road bike. 
>
> Pretty much, isn't the Roadeo the functional equivalent of the old Road 
> Standard also? 
>
>
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: thunder burt snakeskin vs raceguard

[sameness]

 

Per Schwalbe site 
, 
Art. No. 11600532 = 54-559 (26 x 2.10 ) - LiteSkin - PaceStar - Black


Jeff Hagedorn

Los Angeles, CA USA

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Re: [RBW] Re: Kogswell P vs. Rambouillet

[Tim Gavin]

The Road Standard had smaller tire clearance due to short-reach brakes.
The Roadeo specs medium-reach brakes, and it will fit a 700 x 36 tire
comfortably.

My Road Standard also has upper rack eyelets on the seat stays, where the
Roadeo does not.  Of course, you can mount a rear rack to the Roadeo using
a diving board to the brake bolt, or clamps.

I'm pretty sure the Roadeo has 130 mm OLD.



On Tue, Feb 28, 2017 at 4:03 PM, Steve Palincsar  wrote:

>
>
> On 02/28/2017 04:38 PM, Bill Lindsay wrote:
>
>> What could you do on a Rambouillet that you can't do on a Roadeo?
>>
>
> 1) you could buy it for under a thousand dollars, IIRC vs over twice that
> for the Roadeo
>
> 2) the Rambouillet had seat stay rack mounts.  I can't tell for sure, but
> it doesn't look like the Roadeo has them.   Riv's web site says of the
> Roadeo "Basically, it's not a "light touring" bike, or anything of the
> sort," while the Rambouillet did that job pretty well by all accounts.
> (Now that doesn't say you couldn't clamp on a rack and go touring with the
> Roadeo, people did that with road racers during the Bicentennial, but "Just
> Because You Can Doesn't Mean You Should.")
>
> 3) use a 135mm OLN rear wheel?  (at least I think I remember the
> Rambouillet came with a 132mm go-either-way spacing)
>
>
> In my mind, those two models are functionally identical, and you can buy a
>> Roadeo if you want a Rivendell and want a 'not-dumb' stripped down road
>> bike.  Rivendell also selling country bikes has not displaced the nice road
>> bike.
>>
>
> Pretty much, isn't the Roadeo the functional equivalent of the old Road
> Standard also?
>
>
>
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[RBW] Re: When is a bike old?

[Anton Tutter]

My 2013 Rawland with fat 650B wheels often gets mistaken as an "old 
fashioned" bike. One person once called it a "nice antique bike".

Anton
velolumino.com


On Tuesday, February 28, 2017 at 12:12:14 PM UTC-5, Christopher Cote wrote:
>
> Regarding the original topic, I recently had someone compliment my newest 
> bike, and Ocean Air Rambler as a "nice old bike". I was initially offended, 
> but then I realized that the cranks are from 1984, derailleurs from the 
> 90's, etc. So I suppose it is old, in part.
>
> My senior project in engineering school was to design and build an 
> electronic derailleur drivetrain. I was the EE on the project, working with 
> an ME student. Even then as a budding RetroGrouch (I don't think the term 
> had been coined yet), I knew it was an interesting engineering problem, but 
> not something I'd ever want. I could not believe that a cyclist would 
> tolerate having to change or charge batteries, so we designed an alternator 
> into the lower rear derailleur pulley that charged the battery. The biggest 
> advantage of the system that I could see at the time was that it would work 
> with any number of cogs, and any cog spacing
>
> Chris "creating solutions to problems that don't exist"
>
>
> On Monday, February 27, 2017 at 9:36:50 AM UTC-5, Addison wrote:
>>
>> I've had people assume my Riv is an "old" bike for a long time now but 
>> yesterday when I was riding home I stopped to take a photo of the rushing 
>> Truckee River in Reno and a gent paused to compliment me on my "beautiful 
>> old bike."  I just said thanks and didn't correct him.  And then it 
>> occurred to me that I shouldn't correct him because my Allrounder is going 
>> on 18 years of age.  Many miles but it looks sharp...I've taken care of it 
>> through commutes and offroading and tours.  Anyway, just ruminating...and 
>> posting a couple pics.  Happy Monday!
>>
>> http://reno-rambler.blogspot.com/2017/02/when-is-bike-old.html
>>
>> Addison Wilhite, M.A. 
>>
>> Academy of Arts, Careers and Technology 
>>  
>>
>> *“Blazing the Trail to College and Career Success”*
>>
>> Educator: Professional Portfolio 
>>
>> Blogger: Reno Rambler  
>>
>>
>>
>>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Kogswell P vs. Rambouillet

[Steve Palincsar]

On 02/28/2017 04:38 PM, Bill Lindsay wrote:

What could you do on a Rambouillet that you can't do on a Roadeo?


1) you could buy it for under a thousand dollars, IIRC vs over twice 
that for the Roadeo


2) the Rambouillet had seat stay rack mounts.  I can't tell for sure, 
but it doesn't look like the Roadeo has them.   Riv's web site says of 
the Roadeo "Basically, it's not a "light touring" bike, or anything of 
the sort," while the Rambouillet did that job pretty well by all 
accounts.  (Now that doesn't say you couldn't clamp on a rack and go 
touring with the Roadeo, people did that with road racers during the 
Bicentennial, but "Just Because You Can Doesn't Mean You Should.")


3) use a 135mm OLN rear wheel?  (at least I think I remember the 
Rambouillet came with a 132mm go-either-way spacing)



In my mind, those two models are functionally identical, and you can 
buy a Roadeo if you want a Rivendell and want a 'not-dumb' stripped 
down road bike.  Rivendell also selling country bikes has not 
displaced the nice road bike.


Pretty much, isn't the Roadeo the functional equivalent of the old Road 
Standard also?



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Re: [RBW] Re: Kogswell P vs. Rambouillet

[Reed Kennedy]

Totally true Bill, and the Roadeo is a lovely bike. Thing is, a bare Roadeo
frame costs $800 more than the Romulus did as a complete bike.

Some of that is inflation, sure, but looking at the complete Sam for $2,500
the bare Roadeo frame sure seems expensive at $2,250. Probably out of reach
for many. That's what makes it feel like a lower priority, at least to me.
American made, and very nice! You get what you pay for. But a the moment a
Rivendell road bike requires a serious financial commitment.

We'll see how that new inexpensive road bike comes out, though!


Reed

On Tue, Feb 28, 2017 at 1:38 PM, Bill Lindsay  wrote:

> What could you do on a Rambouillet that you can't do on a Roadeo?  In my
> mind, those two models are functionally identical, and you can buy a Roadeo
> if you want a Rivendell and want a 'not-dumb' stripped down road bike.
> Rivendell also selling country bikes has not displaced the nice road bike.
>
> Bill Lindsay
> El Cerrito, CA
>
>
> On Tuesday, February 28, 2017 at 12:36:14 PM UTC-8, Fullylugged wrote:
>>
>> GP feels his designs evolve over time, but my love is for the early
>> stuff.  A 95 Road (the level TT before the Standard model came out) and the
>> Ram are great riding road bikes.  Never had a Rom but the Ram is nowhere
>> close to mushy.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Great riding bike though.   I can fit 32's, 28's with fenders.   It was
>> from an earlier Riv-influence era.  Fancier, faster riding bikes
>>
>>
>> The Model P was a kick in the pants to ride unloaded and kept it's
>> composure when lightly loaded or pushed hard.
>>
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[RBW] Re: FS: New take-off group and wheelset ideal backpacking build

[Anton Tutter]

The thing is, Anne's group wasn't even a matched "group" in the popular 
sense of the term, but more of a complete set of original spec components 
designed to do a job. For the price, it was a bargain, given it was 
essentially new. I don't see any reason not consider a complete "group" if 
there is a need and it makes economic sense. And as far as complete 
"groups" in the common understanding of the term go, (e.g., Dura Ace, XTR), 
if the right group at the right price came around, I'd be all over it. Does 
that put me in a certain "group" of cyclists? So be it...

Anton
velolumino.com



On Saturday, February 18, 2017 at 5:59:42 PM UTC-5, Deacon Patrick wrote:
>
> The trick is, Anne, that as a group we don't generally think (or build) in 
> groups, as many groups of cyclists do. Grin. All part of the Rivendell 
> mystique. 
>
> With abandon,
> Patrick
>
> On Saturday, February 18, 2017 at 3:52:23 PM UTC-7, Anne wrote:
>>
>> Andrew,
>> Hoping to sell it as a group but willing to consider separating if enough 
>> parts can get committed.
>> Thanks.
>>
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: When is a bike old?

[Joe Bernard]

That's how the Shimano Coasting automatic 3-speed worked: The front dybohub 
provided the juice for the electronic shifting system in the rear hub. I could 
see Shimano adapting the dyno to electronic derailer systems if the touring 
market for it ever develops. 

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Re: [RBW] Re: Kogswell P vs. Rambouillet

[Bill Lindsay]

What could you do on a Rambouillet that you can't do on a Roadeo?  In my 
mind, those two models are functionally identical, and you can buy a Roadeo 
if you want a Rivendell and want a 'not-dumb' stripped down road bike. 
 Rivendell also selling country bikes has not displaced the nice road bike. 
 

Bill Lindsay
El Cerrito, CA

On Tuesday, February 28, 2017 at 12:36:14 PM UTC-8, Fullylugged wrote:
>
> GP feels his designs evolve over time, but my love is for the early stuff. 
>  A 95 Road (the level TT before the Standard model came out) and the Ram 
> are great riding road bikes.  Never had a Rom but the Ram is nowhere close 
> to mushy.  
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Great riding bike though.   I can fit 32's, 28's with fenders.   It was 
> from an earlier Riv-influence era.  Fancier, faster riding bikes 
>
>
> The Model P was a kick in the pants to ride unloaded and kept it's 
> composure when lightly loaded or pushed hard. 
>
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: New tires, perhaps?

[Steve Palincsar]

On 02/28/2017 04:07 PM, LeahFoy wrote:

This is all very fascinating. Interesting that Steve has also had the Velocity 
wheels go bad on him. I honestly had no idea Velocity has a history of problems 
with the rims or I might have contacted them. I noticed today the front wheel 
is still the Velocity I had prior; no cracks, but I'll be watching.


The front wheels never crack.  It was the OC rims for rear wheels that 
cracked.  I posted an album of photos of rim cracks of Velocity Synergy 
OC photos back in May 2011. 
https://www.flickr.com/photos/97916047@N00/albums/72157626786487504






Maybe I'm harder on stuff than you guys are. I remember you all being confused 
that I had bent a Wald basket, but it is indeed good and bent. And then there's 
the shifter I also seem to have worn out. Oh, and maybe I had it coming with 
the broken wheel. I get a kick out of crashing over bumps without rising out of 
the saddle. There's something amusing about it. You should try it. But maybe 
not on Velocity rims.



I don't do any of those things like crashing into bumps, etc.  I do my 
utmost to "ride light."  I do ride big miles, though.  Even so, rims 
last me a long time as a rule: I've worn out the brake track on one rim, 
and it took me around 24 years to do it.  The issue with Velocity 
Synergy OC rims is related to metallurgy, I believe, and they fixed it 
before they discontinued the rims.


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Re: [RBW] Re: When is a bike old?

[Scott Henry]

The people who aren't charging batteries are the same people who don't
check chain wear and/or don't replace cables till they break.

As for bikes, I'd say that anything over 10 years counts as old.


On Tue, Feb 28, 2017 at 1:32 PM, Ryan Fleming 
wrote:

> Not exotic, but my early 70's Peugeot PX-10 rides very well as wellin
> spite of it's working-class origins
>
> On Tuesday, February 28, 2017 at 12:29:52 PM UTC-6, Eric Norris wrote:
>>
>> One of my favorite bikes was built in the early 70s and is still going
>> strong. I just bought a bike built about 35 years ago, and it rides
>> extremely well.
>>
>> Properly maintained, a steel bike will last almost forever.
>>
>> --Eric Norris
>> campyo...@me.com
>> @CampyOnlyguy (Twitter/Instagram)
>>
>> On Feb 28, 2017, at 10:27 AM, Christopher Murray 
>> wrote:
>>
>> I'd say steel bikes are like people- 40-50 years is probably  about
>> middle aged.
>>
>> Cheers!
>> Chris
>>
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Re: [RBW] Re: New tires, perhaps?

[LeahFoy]

This is all very fascinating. Interesting that Steve has also had the Velocity 
wheels go bad on him. I honestly had no idea Velocity has a history of problems 
with the rims or I might have contacted them. I noticed today the front wheel 
is still the Velocity I had prior; no cracks, but I'll be watching.

Maybe I'm harder on stuff than you guys are. I remember you all being confused 
that I had bent a Wald basket, but it is indeed good and bent. And then there's 
the shifter I also seem to have worn out. Oh, and maybe I had it coming with 
the broken wheel. I get a kick out of crashing over bumps without rising out of 
the saddle. There's something amusing about it. You should try it. But maybe 
not on Velocity rims.

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Re: [RBW] Re: Kogswell P vs. Rambouillet

[Bruce]

 blockquote, div.yahoo_quoted { margin-left: 0 !important; border-left:1px 
#715FFA solid !important; padding-left:1ex !important; background-color:white 
!important; } GP feels his designs evolve over time, but my love is for the 
early stuff.  A 95 Road (the level TT before the Standard model came out) and 
the Ram are great riding road bikes.  Never had a Rom but the Ram is nowhere 
close to mushy.  











Great riding bike though.   I can fit 32's, 28's with fenders.   It was from an 
earlier Riv-influence era.  Fancier, faster riding bikes 


The Model P was a kick in the pants to ride unloaded and kept it's composure 
when lightly loaded or pushed hard. 



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Re: [RBW] Re: New tires, perhaps?

[Steve Palincsar]

On 02/28/2017 12:06 PM, Wayne Naha wrote:

I thought it unusual that the rim was cracking.  Not saying that the rim is 
defective, but perhaps has been overloaded with all the school supplies.  A 
heavier duty rim may be in order here.  Rims are consumable, but the cracking 
would be a concern for me.  I have decades old rims with no such cracking.



I'll bet Leah plus bike with a porteur rack loaded with concrete paving 
slabs weighs less than many of us do butt naked stepping straight out of 
the shower.



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Re: [RBW] Re: New tires, perhaps?

[Steve Palincsar]

I've already mentioned the Velocity Synergies that cracked at the spoke 
holes.  Here's what they look like:



But that's not the only rim I've had that's cracked.  Back in the day I 
had MA40s on my Spectrum.  They cracked and the shop gave me a big song 
and dance that I was the only person in the entire universe who ever had 
one of those rims crack blah blah and surprise, when the internet came 
along I searched and found MA40 rim cracking was a very popular subject 
of discussion, general consensus being it was the hard anodizing that 
was at fault because the rim without it, MA2, was generally considered 
at the time to be the most perfect rim ever created by the hand of Man 
or God.  And I also had a MA3 crack the same way, probably for the same 
reason.  None of these cracked rims was seriously worn.



On 02/28/2017 12:31 PM, Ryan Fleming wrote:
Garth, it's not beyond the pale of possibility either. I did have 
cracks on a 26"  pair of Araya RM14's I think  which was a bit 
disconcerting , but that's the only rim I can recall having an issue 
with.They were very light, probably too light for me and pounding 
around are city with its some of its 3rd world road surfaces. I'm a 
little over 5'6" and was  well north of  Leah's buck 35 when this 
happened


However, good on Velocity if they offer replacements; I think that's 
awesome.  I have some Velocity 650B on my new bike; Aeroheats, I think 
they're called.


On Tuesday, February 28, 2017 at 11:21:11 AM UTC-6, Garth wrote:

Ryan, rims cracking like that is not "normal" by any means.  Add
to this the fact the Velocity acknowledges the Synergies cracking
and offers replacements and why the are no longer made.



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Re: [RBW] Re: New tires, perhaps?

[Steve Palincsar]

On 02/28/2017 01:49 PM, Wayne Naha wrote:
If Velocity is acknowledging a problem with the Synergy rims cracking, 
then it seems settled that this is not normal or expected wear.  Too 
bad Leah did not kn ow about this before paying for a new wheel. 
 Otherwise, I think a free replacement rim, including new spokes, and 
the labor for lacing it up to the old hub would have been the decent 
thing for Velocity to offer.


It has been the case for years, and they've done exactly that: free 
replacement rim, shipping both ways, free spokes, free labor. They've 
done mine at least 3 times.  I thought this was common knowledge.




On Tuesday, February 28, 2017 at 12:21:11 PM UTC-5, Garth wrote:

Ryan, rims cracking like that is not "normal" by any means.  Add
to this the fact the Velocity acknowledges the Synergies cracking
and offers replacements and why the are no longer made.



On Tuesday, February 28, 2017 at 11:30:06 AM UTC-5, Ryan Fleming
wrote:

I think Leah mentioned that the photo was of the old
rimwhich is a consumable in my opinion. They can crack at
the spokes and the braking surface can erode. Not Velocity's
fault here





Very much to the contrary.  There was a problem.  They covered it, and 
the latest replacements (post their move to the US) have been free of 
the issue.


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Re: [RBW] Re: New tires, perhaps?

[Wayne Naha]

If Velocity is acknowledging a problem with the Synergy rims cracking, then 
it seems settled that this is not normal or expected wear.  Too bad Leah 
did not kn ow about this before paying for a new wheel.  Otherwise, I think 
a free replacement rim, including new spokes, and the labor for lacing it 
up to the old hub would have been the decent thing for Velocity to offer.

On Tuesday, February 28, 2017 at 12:21:11 PM UTC-5, Garth wrote:
>
> Ryan, rims cracking like that is not "normal" by any means.  Add to this 
> the fact the Velocity acknowledges the Synergies cracking and offers 
> replacements and why the are no longer made. 
>
>
>
> On Tuesday, February 28, 2017 at 11:30:06 AM UTC-5, Ryan Fleming wrote:
>>
>> I think Leah mentioned that the photo was of the old rimwhich is a 
>> consumable in my opinion. They can crack at the spokes and the braking 
>> surface can erode. Not Velocity's fault here
>>
>>
>>

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Re: [RBW] Re: When is a bike old?

[Ryan Fleming]

Not exotic, but my early 70's Peugeot PX-10 rides very well as wellin 
spite of it's working-class origins

On Tuesday, February 28, 2017 at 12:29:52 PM UTC-6, Eric Norris wrote:
>
> One of my favorite bikes was built in the early 70s and is still going 
> strong. I just bought a bike built about 35 years ago, and it rides 
> extremely well.
>
> Properly maintained, a steel bike will last almost forever.
>
> --Eric Norris
> campyo...@me.com 
> @CampyOnlyguy (Twitter/Instagram)
>
> On Feb 28, 2017, at 10:27 AM, Christopher Murray  > wrote:
>
> I'd say steel bikes are like people- 40-50 years is probably  about middle 
> aged.
>
> Cheers!
> Chris
>
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>
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: When is a bike old?

[Eric Norris]

One of my favorite bikes was built in the early 70s and is still going strong. 
I just bought a bike built about 35 years ago, and it rides extremely well.

Properly maintained, a steel bike will last almost forever.

--Eric Norris
campyonly...@me.com
@CampyOnlyguy (Twitter/Instagram)

> On Feb 28, 2017, at 10:27 AM, Christopher Murray  
> wrote:
> 
> I'd say steel bikes are like people- 40-50 years is probably  about middle 
> aged.
> 
> Cheers!
> Chris
> 
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Re: [RBW] Re: When is a bike old?

[Christopher Murray]

I'd say steel bikes are like people- 40-50 years is probably  about middle aged.

Cheers!
Chris

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[RBW] WTB: Compass Stampede Pass Tire

[Eric Norris]

Anybody have a new or lightly used Stampede Pass tire cluttering up your place? 
This is the 700x32 tire offered by Compass. I need one (or two) with tan 
sidewalls.

Thanks!

--Eric Norris
campyonly...@me.com
@CampyOnlyguy (Twitter/Instagram)

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Re: [RBW] Re: When is a bike old?

[Brewster Fong]

On Monday, February 27, 2017 at 7:00:35 PM UTC-8, Ron Mc wrote:
>
> What seems to make the most sense would be a dyno hub or dyno BB that 
> keeps your battery charged.  
>

Good recommendation! It is probably cheaper and lighter than putting a 
motor and battery in your frame too! ;)

 

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Re: [RBW] Re: FS - 56cm Bombadil - 650B Goldilocks Bike!

[Philip Kim]

i would also be interested! Since apparently this can fit a wide range of 
people. would be curious to see if that is true on the smaller end. 

On Tuesday, February 28, 2017 at 12:43:50 PM UTC-5, Tony DeFilippo wrote:
>
> Ryan,
>
> I'd be happy to oblige.  I always enjoy meeting up with local Riv riders.  
> One of my anticipated disappointments (anticipointments) regarding the 
> Jones is that coming back to this community with ride reports and pictures 
> is pretty OT.  Not saying it won't happen once or twice of course!  Gotta 
> have a Bombadil vs Jones post at least.  
>
> I've been incredibly curious about the Jones bikes for a couple years now, 
> since before the Plus came out even.  Color me susceptible to good/fun 
> marketing.  I would probably have settled for an extended test ride but 
> this frame was too good an opportunity to pass up.  I did something similar 
> w/ a Rawland rSOGN right before I bought Tom's Bombadil actually, only had 
> it about 6 months and enjoyed it but not enough to keep me from going after 
> the Bomba.  
>
> Once I've actually got it in my grubby paws and get to know it a bit I'll 
> throw out some ride dates and see if we can get a group together out at 
> Wakefield or Fountainhead...
>
> Tony
>
>
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: New tires, perhaps?

[Ray Varella]

If you go back and look at the original pics that Leah posted, you can see 
brake wear at the spokes and see the eyelets pulling away from the rim. 
I don't know how much wear that rim has but if the sidewalls are worn enough to 
cause the sidewalls to bulge at the spoke holes then it's a pretty well worn 
rim. 

If the spokes bulging and the eyelets pulling are an indication of too much 
tension or a defective rim then a message to the manufacturer might be in 
order. 

Rims are consumable and it's possible it lived a useful life. Several years of 
hard braking on downhills seems pretty reasonable. 
If it was a new wheel and this happened in the first year of use then that 
would seem premature. 

Using a bike for everyday transportation assumes some level of maintenance and 
replacement of consumables. 

Ray
Vallejo CA

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Re: [RBW] Re: FS - 56cm Bombadil - 650B Goldilocks Bike!

[Tony DeFilippo]

Ryan,

I'd be happy to oblige.  I always enjoy meeting up with local Riv riders.
One of my anticipated disappointments (anticipointments) regarding the
Jones is that coming back to this community with ride reports and pictures
is pretty OT.  Not saying it won't happen once or twice of course!  Gotta
have a Bombadil vs Jones post at least.

I've been incredibly curious about the Jones bikes for a couple years now,
since before the Plus came out even.  Color me susceptible to good/fun
marketing.  I would probably have settled for an extended test ride but
this frame was too good an opportunity to pass up.  I did something similar
w/ a Rawland rSOGN right before I bought Tom's Bombadil actually, only had
it about 6 months and enjoyed it but not enough to keep me from going after
the Bomba.

Once I've actually got it in my grubby paws and get to know it a bit I'll
throw out some ride dates and see if we can get a group together out at
Wakefield or Fountainhead...

Tony

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[RBW] Re: FS: February Parts Purge (continued)

[Coconutbill]

On Wednesday, February 22, 2017 at 10:15:27 AM UTC-8, Coconutbill wrote:
>
> Hi folks, I accidentally deleted the last thread.
>
> Here's what's left:
>
>> Here's what's left
>>
>> Brooks B-17 (black) $60 
>
Carsick designs handlebar barrel bag - $48 
>
IRD Thumbies (SIlver Shifters) - $70 
>
Moby Ringle Easton Seatpost (long)   27.2  $60
>
Paul Funky Munky Front 1'' cable hanger (black ) $35 
>
Paul, Funky Munky & Rear Cable Hangers $35  
>
Sugino Forged 170mm (mismatched) Single Speed Cranks  $20
>
Shimano Deore (old rear derailleur without chainwheels) $15 
>
Suntour XC Pro - rear derailleur $35 
>
Suntour XC Pro 2x front derailleurs $20 (for both- one is in good shape - 
> the other is stripped on one of the limit screw)  
>
   Suntour Friction Stem Shifters $15 

> Suntour Bottom Bracket (old style cup-n-cone) missing left outer cup $35  
>
Shimano bar end shifter parts $10 
>
MAVIC 121 SUP Ceramic Rims - make me an offer
>
Vintage Nitto Bullmoose Bars  

 

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Re: [RBW] Re: New tires, perhaps?

[Ryan Fleming]

Garth, it's not beyond the pale of possibility either. I did have cracks on 
a 26"  pair of Araya RM14's I think  which was a bit disconcerting , but 
that's the only rim I can recall having an issue with.They were very light, 
probably too light for me and pounding around are city with its some of its 
3rd world road surfaces. I'm a little over 5'6" and was  well north of 
 Leah's buck 35 when this happened

However, good on Velocity if they offer replacements; I think that's 
awesome.  I have some Velocity 650B on my new bike; Aeroheats, I think 
they're called.

On Tuesday, February 28, 2017 at 11:21:11 AM UTC-6, Garth wrote:
>
> Ryan, rims cracking like that is not "normal" by any means.  Add to this 
> the fact the Velocity acknowledges the Synergies cracking and offers 
> replacements and why the are no longer made. 
>
>
>
> On Tuesday, February 28, 2017 at 11:30:06 AM UTC-5, Ryan Fleming wrote:
>>
>> I think Leah mentioned that the photo was of the old rimwhich is a 
>> consumable in my opinion. They can crack at the spokes and the braking 
>> surface can erode. Not Velocity's fault here
>>
>>
>>

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Re: [RBW] Re: New tires, perhaps?

[Garth]

Ryan, rims cracking like that is not "normal" by any means.  Add to this 
the fact the Velocity acknowledges the Synergies cracking and offers 
replacements and why the are no longer made. 



On Tuesday, February 28, 2017 at 11:30:06 AM UTC-5, Ryan Fleming wrote:
>
> I think Leah mentioned that the photo was of the old rimwhich is a 
> consumable in my opinion. They can crack at the spokes and the braking 
> surface can erode. Not Velocity's fault here
>
>
>

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[RBW] Re: FS: fillet-brazed 650B triple triangle F/F/HS/Fenders/Racks

[S. Greco]

bump 
$1400 shipped CONUS
willing to include seat post and stem/bars

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[RBW] Re: When is a bike old?

[Ryan Fleming]

Yes indeed it (your AR)  does look beautiful and  has aged well. My A/R 
(1997) and road (2001) has received many compliments over the years   from 
  the non-ferrous crowd  as well as others. Rivendells  are just flat-out 
handsome bikes  and people who love bikes (big tent, don't forget) are very 
intrigued by them. I'm   intrigued by newer stuff as well, even though I 
can't see myself buying, say, a Cervelo anytime soon. Doesn't mean I'm not 
curious. I just love bikes 

On Monday, February 27, 2017 at 8:36:50 AM UTC-6, Addison wrote:
>
> I've had people assume my Riv is an "old" bike for a long time now but 
> yesterday when I was riding home I stopped to take a photo of the rushing 
> Truckee River in Reno and a gent paused to compliment me on my "beautiful 
> old bike."  I just said thanks and didn't correct him.  And then it 
> occurred to me that I shouldn't correct him because my Allrounder is going 
> on 18 years of age.  Many miles but it looks sharp...I've taken care of it 
> through commutes and offroading and tours.  Anyway, just ruminating...and 
> posting a couple pics.  Happy Monday!
>
> http://reno-rambler.blogspot.com/2017/02/when-is-bike-old.html
>
> Addison Wilhite, M.A. 
>
> Academy of Arts, Careers and Technology 
>  
>
> *“Blazing the Trail to College and Career Success”*
>
> Educator: Professional Portfolio 
>
> Blogger: Reno Rambler  
>
>
>
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: When is a bike old?

[Garth]

 Electronic shifting exists to exist, quite simple. Same with 
everything else, existing to exist. 


Just like everything in bicycling circles, I may not need something or even 
consider it today, but some day I may.  Fwiw, I ride with 2/3 rings and 
freewheels and friction shifters for no other reason that they work just 
fine and I find 7 cogs to be about "just right". It's all part of the 
"cycling experience". 

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Re: [RBW] Re: New tires, perhaps?

[Leah Peterson]

I would like to point out here that I am 5’ 6”, and a buck 35. Because if my 
rim is shot and this is unusual, I’m sure you’re imagining plausible reasons 
why! Lots of self-deprecating jokes are swirling through my head right now…

I don’t carry that much stuff in the rear. The worst of it is in the front 
basket, supported by my Nitto Big Front Rack. Maybe it was that one that 
cracked - I guess they didn’t specify.
> On Feb 28, 2017, at 9:06 AM, Wayne Naha  wrote:
> 
> I thought it unusual that the rim was cracking.  Not saying that the rim is 
> defective, but perhaps has been overloaded with all the school supplies.  A 
> heavier duty rim may be in order here.  Rims are consumable, but the cracking 
> would be a concern for me.  I have decades old rims with no such cracking.
> 
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[RBW] Re: When is a bike old?

[Christopher Cote]

Regarding the original topic, I recently had someone compliment my newest 
bike, and Ocean Air Rambler as a "nice old bike". I was initially offended, 
but then I realized that the cranks are from 1984, derailleurs from the 
90's, etc. So I suppose it is old, in part.

My senior project in engineering school was to design and build an 
electronic derailleur drivetrain. I was the EE on the project, working with 
an ME student. Even then as a budding RetroGrouch (I don't think the term 
had been coined yet), I knew it was an interesting engineering problem, but 
not something I'd ever want. I could not believe that a cyclist would 
tolerate having to change or charge batteries, so we designed an alternator 
into the lower rear derailleur pulley that charged the battery. The biggest 
advantage of the system that I could see at the time was that it would work 
with any number of cogs, and any cog spacing

Chris "creating solutions to problems that don't exist"


On Monday, February 27, 2017 at 9:36:50 AM UTC-5, Addison wrote:
>
> I've had people assume my Riv is an "old" bike for a long time now but 
> yesterday when I was riding home I stopped to take a photo of the rushing 
> Truckee River in Reno and a gent paused to compliment me on my "beautiful 
> old bike."  I just said thanks and didn't correct him.  And then it 
> occurred to me that I shouldn't correct him because my Allrounder is going 
> on 18 years of age.  Many miles but it looks sharp...I've taken care of it 
> through commutes and offroading and tours.  Anyway, just ruminating...and 
> posting a couple pics.  Happy Monday!
>
> http://reno-rambler.blogspot.com/2017/02/when-is-bike-old.html
>
> Addison Wilhite, M.A. 
>
> Academy of Arts, Careers and Technology 
>  
>
> *“Blazing the Trail to College and Career Success”*
>
> Educator: Professional Portfolio 
>
> Blogger: Reno Rambler  
>
>
>
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: New tires, perhaps?

[Wayne Naha]

I thought it unusual that the rim was cracking.  Not saying that the rim is 
defective, but perhaps has been overloaded with all the school supplies.  A 
heavier duty rim may be in order here.  Rims are consumable, but the cracking 
would be a concern for me.  I have decades old rims with no such cracking.

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[RBW] Re: thunder burt snakeskin vs raceguard

[Garth]

 I gotta say, Schwalbe's explanation of their tire tech is like lawyer 
speak. Maybe Schwalbe knows what they mean, but they don't convey it to the 
public very well and it's always been that way despite all the changes they 
make to their website.  I have read more than a few people being sent the 
wrong tires by online retailers. If the customer *happens *to catch the 
error from a Schwalbe purchase they do correct it but other retailers is 
case by case.   So whatever you order double check to make sure it's the 
right one !

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Re: [RBW] Re: New tires, perhaps?

[Ryan Fleming]

I think Leah mentioned that the photo was of the old rimwhich is a 
consumable in my opinion. They can crack at the spokes and the braking 
surface can erode. Not Velocity's fault here

On Monday, February 27, 2017 at 8:01:14 AM UTC-6, Steve Palincsar wrote:
>
> And you also need to contact Velocity regarding that cracking rear rim.  
> I'm not sure what they're replacing them with now, since the Synergy is no 
> longer available, but they replaced several, completely rebuilding the 
> wheel at no charge, for me in the past.
>
> On 02/26/2017 11:22 PM, Leah Peterson wrote:
>
> You know what? I just realized it said right on my invoice "need to order 
> Conti Tour Ride tires"!!! So they did make the change without my permission!
> [image: image1.JPG]
> Sent from my iPad
>
> On Feb 26, 2017, at 8:08 PM, dougP  
> wrote:
>
> BMX tires in a 650B size?  Are these for adult BMX bikes?  
>
> Since the mechanic suggested "why not go with what you have?" & you 
> agreed, I think you have a basis to return the BMX tires & get the ones you 
> thought you were getting.  In good faith, the owner should have at least 
> called you to let you know he'd made a change.  Probably really busy, 
> didn't have time, etc., but since you're not 100% satisfied AND you brought 
> it in with something you liked, I'd suggest giving it a try.  You said the 
> mechanic was nice, that's worth something.  If everything else came right, 
> I'd push for the change as you want to build a relationship with a LBS, and 
> relationships are a 2 way street.  It's really not the owner's place to 
> decide what the customer needs unless asked.  My 2 cents, anyway.
>
> dougP
>
> On Sunday, February 26, 2017 at 4:36:36 PM UTC-8, LeahFoy wrote: 
>>
>> Flat protection is TOTALLY priority for me. I *ducks head here* don't 
>> know how to change flats and don't really want to learn. I just want tires 
>> that do exactly what my last Continental tires did - give me zero trouble. 
>> I rode those tires thousands of miles and never a flat. 
>>
>> So, tell me what Schwalbes I should get. My tires are 38, I think. You 
>> know what I want, just tell me what to order. As far as the bike shop, I 
>> don't think I want to ask them to help me with an exchange. I know how hard 
>> it is for businesses to make money, and the mechanics were really nice, and 
>> I didn't specify what tires to put on the bike, so it's mostly my fault. I 
>> did ask what they thought to put on there when I initially dropped off the 
>> bike and the mechanic said, "How about the same tires you have on already?" 
>> so I thought they were going with that.  But I didn't TELL them, and I 
>> ought to have. The issue likely came when the owner got involved. When I 
>> came for the bike, I asked about the tires and the owner was all excited 
>> about these tires he had chosen for my bike and he said so. He's a genuine 
>> roadie and all the stereotypical stuff that goes with that, so our 
>> preferences are polar opposites. Lesson learned! Know what you want and 
>> politely ask for it. 
>>
>> Sent from my iPad 
>>
>> > On Feb 26, 2017, at 2:51 PM, Jon Dukeman,central Colorado <
>> row.n.2...@gmail.com> wrote: 
>> > 
>> > Leah, 
>> > Remember if you don't ask you will never know. Ask the bike shop for an 
>> exchange. Worst case they say no.You walk away unhappy and they lose a 
>> customer.They can put the exchanged tires on another bike or sell them at a 
>> reduced price.The bike shop I worked at did that all the time.The same with 
>> saddles. We wanted the customer to be happy. 
>> > If  flat protection is a priority 
>> > 
>> > over comfort go with the Schwalbe tires. 
>> > Like others I question putting bmx tires on your bike.I'd ask them why 
>> they chose those tires???Almost like they were taking advantage of you. 
>> > Good luck. 
>> > Jon 
>> > 
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Re: [RBW] Re: FS - 56cm Bombadil - 650B Goldilocks Bike!

[Ryan Thompson]

Tony,

Eventually I'd love to see that Jones in person, or maybe on our local 
trails.  I've had my eye on Jeff's bikes for a while but have never seen 
one in the wild.

Ryan
Arlington, VA

On Monday, February 27, 2017 at 10:32:17 AM UTC-5, Tony DeFilippo wrote:
>
> And SOLD.  Thanks for the interest REALLY, thanks for the sale.  I 
> went on a hunch that the Bomba would sell at this price and went ahead and 
> committed to buying a local used Jones+ 24" complete bike.  Money hasn't 
> changed hands on the Jones purchase yet but it appears to be solid.
>
> Now Saturday won't be as awkward with me adding a bike to the garage.  I'm 
> sad to see the Bomba go but mostly grateful for the unbelievable 
> introduction to singletrack riding it gave me.  
>
> Tony
>
>
> On Mon, Feb 27, 2017 at 6:08 AM, Tony DeFilippo  > wrote:
>
>> SALE!!!  One of my target bikes came up at a tempting price, so long as 
>> it's available I'm motivated for a quick sale.
>>
>> F/F/HS/BB - $1,100 to me... You pay the shipping.
>>
>> Also happy to talk components.
>>
>> Help me out this morning and we could both be very happy! :)
>>
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Re: [RBW] Re: When is a bike old?

[Addison Wilhite]

I've only played with it in a stand when I was taking a class at UBI.  I
have heard far better mechanics than myself who've ridden with it (but
personally have no particular use for it) that the best thing about it is
if you are racing cyclocross and even when your drivetrain gets mucked up
it still shifts smoothly.

Funny because the two most recent bikes into my stable I put downtube
shifters on.

.02 cents


Addison Wilhite, M.A.

Academy of Arts, Careers and Technology 

*“Blazing the Trail to College and Career Success”*

Educator: Professional Portfolio 

Blogger: Reno Rambler 




On Tue, Feb 28, 2017 at 7:24 AM, Ron Mc  wrote:

> and to me, half steps make riding more fun
>
>
> On Tuesday, February 28, 2017 at 9:15:22 AM UTC-6, Joe Bernard wrote:
>>
>> I honestly think you're not in a position to know why they decided to buy
>> bikes with e-shifting. It's possible at least one of them tried it and
>> thought it made riding more fun. Anything that makes a bike more fun makes
>> a bike more likely to be ridden.
>
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Re: [RBW] Re: When is a bike old?

[Ron Mc]

and to me, half steps make riding more fun

On Tuesday, February 28, 2017 at 9:15:22 AM UTC-6, Joe Bernard wrote:
>
> I honestly think you're not in a position to know why they decided to buy 
> bikes with e-shifting. It's possible at least one of them tried it and 
> thought it made riding more fun. Anything that makes a bike more fun makes 
> a bike more likely to be ridden. 

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Re: [RBW] Re: When is a bike old?

[Joe Bernard]

I honestly think you're not in a position to know why they decided to buy bikes 
with e-shifting. It's possible at least one of them tried it and thought it 
made riding more fun. Anything that makes a bike more fun makes a bike more 
likely to be ridden. 

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Re: [RBW] Re: Kogswell P vs. Rambouillet

[Belopsky]

haha, country hobo. Love it!

On Tuesday, February 28, 2017 at 9:23:53 AM UTC-5, Skenry wrote:
>
> I do love my P60, its on my "do not ever sell" list.   I wouldn't say the 
> lugs were unique though, they were the Kirk Pacenti OS carving blanks, they 
> were just uncarved.   
>
> Great riding bike though.   I can fit 32's, 28's with fenders.   It was 
> from an earlier Riv-influence era.   Fancier, faster riding bikes rather 
> than the country-hobo style
>
>
> On Tue, Feb 28, 2017 at 8:15 AM, Chris in Redding, Ca.  > wrote:
>
>> Hey All,
>> I owned a second gen Model P and also a Romulus. I found the Romulus to 
>> be over tubed. There must also be some differences in the tubeset because 
>> the Rom felt mushy when pushed hard compared to the Model P and other 
>> similar steel road frames I have owned. The Model P was a kick in the pants 
>> to ride unloaded and kept it's composure when lightly loaded or pushed 
>> hard. The geometry between them was at least real close...that I remember 
>> from reading the charts way back then. The lugs are unique and from Matt 
>> Grimm from his 'lugged' days. Last I spoke to Matt he was hanging out in 
>> Berkeley Ca. 
>>
>> Smooth Tracks,
>> Chris
>> Redding, Ca.
>>
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Re: [RBW] Re: thunder burt snakeskin vs raceguard

[Tim Gavin]

Photo?

There should be at least one (if not two) boxes next to "Evo" on the
sidewall.



http://www.bicyclerollingresistance.com/images/pictures/schwalbe-rocket-ron-liteskin-2015-3.jpg

On Tue, Feb 28, 2017 at 8:21 AM, 'Mark in Beacon' via RBW Owners Bunch <
rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com> wrote:

> Yup. But my sidewall only says EVO, no Raceguard, Liteskin, or Snakeskin
> designation. I would imagine each of these falls under a separate "line".
> Again, adding to the confusion.
>
> On Tuesday, February 28, 2017 at 9:04:43 AM UTC-5, Tim Gavin wrote:
>>
>> Mark, you have to look at the sidewall label to see the composition of
>> the exact tire.  They use the same box for all their tires (though usually
>> each will have sticker on it that specifies the tire inside).
>>
>> On Mon, Feb 27, 2017 at 9:09 PM, 'Mark in Beacon' via RBW Owners Bunch <
>> rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com> wrote:
>>
>>> To further confuse matters, the box that my TBs came in has no mention
>>> of  Raceguard, Liteskin, or Snakeskin. Instead, it reads :
>>>
>>> *Evolution Line*
>>> The best possible.
>>> Highest quality materials.
>>> The latest technology
>>>
>>> *Performance Line*
>>> Excellent quality for intensive use.
>>>
>>> *Active Line*
>>> Reliable brand quality.
>>>
>>>
>>> On Monday, February 27, 2017 at 2:17:31 PM UTC-5, Garth wrote:



 This may help or it may confuse you more ...prolly a bit of both !
 https://www.schwalbetires.com/sites/all/definitions/Performance.html


 *RaceGuard®*
 This belt was developed specially with racing in mind. A synthesis of
 special india rubber and several layers of nylon fabric offers very
 effective protection against penetration punctures. There is only a minimal
 increase in weight and rolling resistance of these tires.


>
   *SnakeSkin:* A light and flexible carcass makes the tire
 highly resistant to scrubbing.

 *   LiteSkin:* Skin Tires have light, thin sidewalls. Advantages:
> Weight saving and reduced rolling resistance.



 It appears the raceguard version relies on a fabric belt with the
 lightskin sidewalls for puncture resistance whereas the snakeskin is "A
 light and flexible carcass makes the tire highly resistant to scrubbing" .
 So that infers a completely different carcass .

 So Drew I'd assume a snakeskin version would be a good choice for you.

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Re: [RBW] Re: When is a bike old?

[Tim Gavin]

Another reservation of e-shifting systems:  battery life.

These batteries will lose capacity over time, just like the battery of any
mobile device.  So, within 3-5 years, you'll have a battery with 30% life
left, and how long (and at what price) will these batteries be available?

Also, how do these batteries perform in below freezing weather?  My phone
shuts down at ~35 degrees.


Personally, I appreciate some modern tech in cycling.  I have a CF bike
with Hy/Rd disc brakes and SRAM double tap shifters, I have a fat bike with
hydraulic disc brakes, and I work on new stuff all the time at the bike
shop.

But for me, electronic shifting doesn't address any need or desire, and
seems to have obvious drawbacks -- especially the price.

But then, I don't ride "roadie" very much.  In fact, I owned a gorgeous
Roadeo for a year and rode it only three times.  It's just not my scene.
My group rides are tours, culinary rides, gravel, or singletrack.  No pace
lines, no drops, no racing.  Just riding.  :)

Well, I've done a couple cyclocross races.  Is e-shifting good when the
derailleur is full of mud and grass?

On Tue, Feb 28, 2017 at 7:57 AM, Patrick Moore  wrote:

>
>
> On Mon, Feb 27, 2017 at 7:55 PM, Brewster Fong  wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> Patrick, if you really want to know more, why are you asking the ibob
>> list where most people are probably still using friction shifters or at
>> least that's the reputation?!  Why not read a few cycling review and then
>> go test it yourself. I'm sure trhere's a Trek/Spec/C'dale has a shop near
>> you?!
>>
>
> Well, some listers certainly have opinions on the thing!
>
>>
>> Anyways, take a look at a few articles like this one:
>>
>> http://www.cyclingweekly.co.uk/news/product-news/six-reasons
>> -electronic-groupsets-better-mechanical-224550
>>
>> Hey even your buddies at retrogrouch addressed this issue:
>>
>> http://bikeretrogrouch.blogspot.com/2016/05/electronic-vs-
>> mechanical-shifting.html
>>
>> So whether its cosmetic or actual interest in faster shifting, e-shifting
>> is here to stay. The question is whether you are open enough to investigate
>> it for yourself without being influence by others.
>>
>> btw, I've tried it and like it. I don't have it, but can see myself
>> getting it on a future bike. Why not? Cycling is suppose to be fun! Good
>> Luck!
>>
>
> I'm not interested in it, except academically, like in the exotica you
> hear about in strange, ancient cultures; or, on the other end of the time
> continuum, as with twitter or satellite radio -- strange things that get
> other people excited. I'd happily try it if someone handed me a bike; I
> have tried it in the stand, and it was rather fun, though it seemed slow
> (this was the Dura Ace of several years ago). But it could come and go and
> leave my world utterly unaffected.
>
> No, the real question is, why was it developed? The theoretical answer
> seems to be that it works better for the pros; and I suppose it's the pros
> who could answer the question definitively.
>
> To be perfectly frank, I rather think it was developed to sell more stuff,
> and that its advantages for the pros are incidental; these advantages in
> racing may even be real, though, real or not, I daresay they excite the
> pros less than those who like to imitate the pros. I do think that, if
> properly developed, it's real value might be for city bikes: better
> durability and greater ease of use; a sort of black box transmission that
> could be fully enclosed, like an oil bath chaincase. Jan suggested that
> electric shifting might allow seamless and sequential half-stepping. But of
> course, you couldn't charge what you charge for "pro level" equipment,
> unless (and here's an idea!) you get the pros to ride city bikes. (Why not?)
>
> One disadvantage is that it would be rendered useless by a nuclear blast,
> thus rendering your bike useless for the post-apocalyptic world.
>
> Patrick Moore, who gets his fun shifting 10 (mismatched) cogs with Suntour
> Power Ratchet BES.
>
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Re: [RBW] Re: thunder burt snakeskin vs raceguard

[David Banzer]

I believe EVO just refers to the Evolution Line which is a group of 
Schwalbe's higher-end tires. I believe the Thunder Burt is only offered as 
Evolution, where other tires are offered as Evolution or Performance line, 
with different versions within each category.
David
River Grove, IL

On Tuesday, February 28, 2017 at 8:21:08 AM UTC-6, Mark in Beacon wrote:
>
> Yup. But my sidewall only says EVO, no Raceguard, Liteskin, or Snakeskin 
> designation. I would imagine each of these falls under a separate "line". 
> Again, adding to the confusion. 
>
> On Tuesday, February 28, 2017 at 9:04:43 AM UTC-5, Tim Gavin wrote:
>>
>> Mark, you have to look at the sidewall label to see the composition of 
>> the exact tire.  They use the same box for all their tires (though usually 
>> each will have sticker on it that specifies the tire inside).
>>
>> On Mon, Feb 27, 2017 at 9:09 PM, 'Mark in Beacon' via RBW Owners Bunch <
>> rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com> wrote:
>>
>>> To further confuse matters, the box that my TBs came in has no mention 
>>> of  Raceguard, Liteskin, or Snakeskin. Instead, it reads :
>>>
>>> *Evolution Line*
>>> The best possible.
>>> Highest quality materials.
>>> The latest technology
>>>
>>> *Performance Line*
>>> Excellent quality for intensive use.
>>>
>>> *Active Line*
>>> Reliable brand quality.
>>>
>>>
>>> On Monday, February 27, 2017 at 2:17:31 PM UTC-5, Garth wrote:



 This may help or it may confuse you more ...prolly a bit of both !  
 https://www.schwalbetires.com/sites/all/definitions/Performance.html


 *RaceGuard®*
 This belt was developed specially with racing in mind. A synthesis of 
 special india rubber and several layers of nylon fabric offers very 
 effective protection against penetration punctures. There is only a 
 minimal 
 increase in weight and rolling resistance of these tires.

  
>
   *SnakeSkin:* A light and flexible carcass makes the tire 
 highly resistant to scrubbing.

 *   LiteSkin:* Skin Tires have light, thin sidewalls. Advantages: 
> Weight saving and reduced rolling resistance.


  
 It appears the raceguard version relies on a fabric belt with the 
 lightskin sidewalls for puncture resistance whereas the snakeskin is "A 
 light and flexible carcass makes the tire highly resistant to scrubbing" . 
  
 So that infers a completely different carcass .  

 So Drew I'd assume a snakeskin version would be a good choice for you. 

 -- 
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>>
>>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Kogswell P vs. Rambouillet

[Scott Henry]

I do love my P60, its on my "do not ever sell" list.   I wouldn't say the
lugs were unique though, they were the Kirk Pacenti OS carving blanks, they
were just uncarved.

Great riding bike though.   I can fit 32's, 28's with fenders.   It was
from an earlier Riv-influence era.   Fancier, faster riding bikes rather
than the country-hobo style


On Tue, Feb 28, 2017 at 8:15 AM, Chris in Redding, Ca. <
campredd...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Hey All,
> I owned a second gen Model P and also a Romulus. I found the Romulus to be
> over tubed. There must also be some differences in the tubeset because the
> Rom felt mushy when pushed hard compared to the Model P and other similar
> steel road frames I have owned. The Model P was a kick in the pants to ride
> unloaded and kept it's composure when lightly loaded or pushed hard. The
> geometry between them was at least real close...that I remember from
> reading the charts way back then. The lugs are unique and from Matt Grimm
> from his 'lugged' days. Last I spoke to Matt he was hanging out in Berkeley
> Ca.
>
> Smooth Tracks,
> Chris
> Redding, Ca.
>
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Re: [RBW] Re: thunder burt snakeskin vs raceguard

['Mark in Beacon' via RBW Owners Bunch]

Yup. But my sidewall only says EVO, no Raceguard, Liteskin, or Snakeskin 
designation. I would imagine each of these falls under a separate "line". 
Again, adding to the confusion. 

On Tuesday, February 28, 2017 at 9:04:43 AM UTC-5, Tim Gavin wrote:
>
> Mark, you have to look at the sidewall label to see the composition of the 
> exact tire.  They use the same box for all their tires (though usually each 
> will have sticker on it that specifies the tire inside).
>
> On Mon, Feb 27, 2017 at 9:09 PM, 'Mark in Beacon' via RBW Owners Bunch <
> rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com > wrote:
>
>> To further confuse matters, the box that my TBs came in has no mention 
>> of  Raceguard, Liteskin, or Snakeskin. Instead, it reads :
>>
>> *Evolution Line*
>> The best possible.
>> Highest quality materials.
>> The latest technology
>>
>> *Performance Line*
>> Excellent quality for intensive use.
>>
>> *Active Line*
>> Reliable brand quality.
>>
>>
>> On Monday, February 27, 2017 at 2:17:31 PM UTC-5, Garth wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> This may help or it may confuse you more ...prolly a bit of both !  
>>> https://www.schwalbetires.com/sites/all/definitions/Performance.html
>>>
>>>
>>> *RaceGuard®*
>>> This belt was developed specially with racing in mind. A synthesis of 
>>> special india rubber and several layers of nylon fabric offers very 
>>> effective protection against penetration punctures. There is only a minimal 
>>> increase in weight and rolling resistance of these tires.
>>>
>>>  

>>>   *SnakeSkin:* A light and flexible carcass makes the tire 
>>> highly resistant to scrubbing.
>>>
>>> *   LiteSkin:* Skin Tires have light, thin sidewalls. Advantages: 
 Weight saving and reduced rolling resistance.
>>>
>>>
>>>  
>>> It appears the raceguard version relies on a fabric belt with the 
>>> lightskin sidewalls for puncture resistance whereas the snakeskin is "A 
>>> light and flexible carcass makes the tire highly resistant to scrubbing" .  
>>> So that infers a completely different carcass .  
>>>
>>> So Drew I'd assume a snakeskin version would be a good choice for you. 
>>>
>>> -- 
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>
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: thunder burt snakeskin vs raceguard

[Tim Gavin]

Mark, you have to look at the sidewall label to see the composition of the
exact tire.  They use the same box for all their tires (though usually each
will have sticker on it that specifies the tire inside).

On Mon, Feb 27, 2017 at 9:09 PM, 'Mark in Beacon' via RBW Owners Bunch <
rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com> wrote:

> To further confuse matters, the box that my TBs came in has no mention of
> Raceguard, Liteskin, or Snakeskin. Instead, it reads :
>
> *Evolution Line*
> The best possible.
> Highest quality materials.
> The latest technology
>
> *Performance Line*
> Excellent quality for intensive use.
>
> *Active Line*
> Reliable brand quality.
>
>
> On Monday, February 27, 2017 at 2:17:31 PM UTC-5, Garth wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>> This may help or it may confuse you more ...prolly a bit of both !
>> https://www.schwalbetires.com/sites/all/definitions/Performance.html
>>
>>
>> *RaceGuard®*
>> This belt was developed specially with racing in mind. A synthesis of
>> special india rubber and several layers of nylon fabric offers very
>> effective protection against penetration punctures. There is only a minimal
>> increase in weight and rolling resistance of these tires.
>>
>>
>>>
>>   *SnakeSkin:* A light and flexible carcass makes the tire
>> highly resistant to scrubbing.
>>
>> *   LiteSkin:* Skin Tires have light, thin sidewalls. Advantages:
>>> Weight saving and reduced rolling resistance.
>>
>>
>>
>> It appears the raceguard version relies on a fabric belt with the
>> lightskin sidewalls for puncture resistance whereas the snakeskin is "A
>> light and flexible carcass makes the tire highly resistant to scrubbing" .
>> So that infers a completely different carcass .
>>
>> So Drew I'd assume a snakeskin version would be a good choice for you.
>>
>> --
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Re: [RBW] Re: When is a bike old?

[Patrick Moore]

On Mon, Feb 27, 2017 at 7:55 PM, Brewster Fong  wrote:

>
>
> Patrick, if you really want to know more, why are you asking the ibob list
> where most people are probably still using friction shifters or at least
> that's the reputation?!  Why not read a few cycling review and then go test
> it yourself. I'm sure trhere's a Trek/Spec/C'dale has a shop near you?!
>

Well, some listers certainly have opinions on the thing!

>
> Anyways, take a look at a few articles like this one:
>
> http://www.cyclingweekly.co.uk/news/product-news/six-
> reasons-electronic-groupsets-better-mechanical-224550
>
> Hey even your buddies at retrogrouch addressed this issue:
>
> http://bikeretrogrouch.blogspot.com/2016/05/electronic-vs-mechanical-
> shifting.html
>
> So whether its cosmetic or actual interest in faster shifting, e-shifting
> is here to stay. The question is whether you are open enough to investigate
> it for yourself without being influence by others.
>
> btw, I've tried it and like it. I don't have it, but can see myself
> getting it on a future bike. Why not? Cycling is suppose to be fun! Good
> Luck!
>

I'm not interested in it, except academically, like in the exotica you hear
about in strange, ancient cultures; or, on the other end of the time
continuum, as with twitter or satellite radio -- strange things that get
other people excited. I'd happily try it if someone handed me a bike; I
have tried it in the stand, and it was rather fun, though it seemed slow
(this was the Dura Ace of several years ago). But it could come and go and
leave my world utterly unaffected.

No, the real question is, why was it developed? The theoretical answer
seems to be that it works better for the pros; and I suppose it's the pros
who could answer the question definitively.

To be perfectly frank, I rather think it was developed to sell more stuff,
and that its advantages for the pros are incidental; these advantages in
racing may even be real, though, real or not, I daresay they excite the
pros less than those who like to imitate the pros. I do think that, if
properly developed, it's real value might be for city bikes: better
durability and greater ease of use; a sort of black box transmission that
could be fully enclosed, like an oil bath chaincase. Jan suggested that
electric shifting might allow seamless and sequential half-stepping. But of
course, you couldn't charge what you charge for "pro level" equipment,
unless (and here's an idea!) you get the pros to ride city bikes. (Why not?)

One disadvantage is that it would be rendered useless by a nuclear blast,
thus rendering your bike useless for the post-apocalyptic world.

Patrick Moore, who gets his fun shifting 10 (mismatched) cogs with Suntour
Power Ratchet BES.

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[RBW] Re: FS-Joe Appaloosa

[Les Lammers]

The MAP bars may be a great solution. I have them on my Cheviot with Ergon 
CG-1 grips and like them a lot.

On Monday, February 27, 2017 at 12:05:40 PM UTC-5, Gossamer wrote:
>
> You offer an interesting solution and I'll seriously consider it. My issue 
> is that I think the bars need to come back, as the bike was designed, to an 
> area appreciably behind the head tube. What I want to avoid is the constant 
> churn of handlebars, tape, shifters, levers...on and on. I do enjoy the 
> bike but am kicking myself for not doing what I was told. Will said, "If 
> you want an Atlantis, get the Atlantis. You'll wish you had." To be honest, 
> I thought I could accomplish the "Atlantis" feel for less than what it 
> would cost. I should know better by now.
>
> I will say this, the disadvantage I found with the choco moose bars, aside 
> from comfort (subjective) was that bar-end shifters make it difficult to 
> turn at times because of how they hit your knees when you turn or maneuver. 
>
> On Monday, February 27, 2017 at 10:13:33 AM UTC-6, Bob Lovejoy wrote:
>>
>> I just want to throw this in... I was working with a bike that I knew had 
>> too long of a top tube for drop bars but still loved (a Velo Orange 
>> Polyvalent).  I set it up anyway for drops, using a Nitto dirt drop stem, 
>> and that was ok, but just barely.  The experiments continued though, 
>> changing out the drop bars and stem with a normal Nitto stem (10cm?) and 
>> the Map / Ahearn all round handlebars ( 
>> http://www.benscycle.com/p-1244-map-ahearne-all-rounder-handlebar-254-silver.aspx
>>  
>> ).  These, for me anyway, are a true middle-ground with regards to reach, 
>> effectiveness, and fun riding.
>>
>> I hope the sale and all goes as you want it to as it is a beautiful bike! 
>>  That said, if not, it might be worth an experiment with the MAP/Ahearn 
>> bars.
>>
>> I have hopefully attached a couple of somewhat recent pictures of my 
>> Polyvalent with the Ahearne bars.  Just throwing it out as a possibility.
>>
>> Good luck with the sale if it comes to that!
>>
>> Bob Lovejoy
>> Galesburg, IL
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Monday, February 27, 2017 at 9:49:07 AM UTC-6, Gossamer wrote:
>>>
>>> Not inappropriate at all. More than happy to answer. While I agree with 
>>> the sizing methodology that RBW shares, I made the mistake in this 
>>> instance. Will tried to tell me, and I didn't listen, that this would not 
>>> be my best choice for a drop-bar bicycle when compared to the Atlantis. I 
>>> ordered it with the choco-moose bars thinking I could enjoy them and simply 
>>> cannot. I tried to put the shortest stem I can, along with a comfortable 
>>> drop bar but it's too much of a reach. As I've gotten older, I've become 
>>> less tolerant to little inconveniences on my bicycles. Rather than fight 
>>> this, I'll sell it, take my lumps and do what I should have done from the 
>>> onset.
>>>
>>> Hopefully someone will see the value in what I'm offering and buy it 
>>> quickly. Feel free to ask other questions, should you have any.
>>>
>>>

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[RBW] Re: Kogswell P vs. Rambouillet

[Chris in Redding, Ca.]

Hey All,
I owned a second gen Model P and also a Romulus. I found the Romulus to be 
over tubed. There must also be some differences in the tubeset because the 
Rom felt mushy when pushed hard compared to the Model P and other similar 
steel road frames I have owned. The Model P was a kick in the pants to ride 
unloaded and kept it's composure when lightly loaded or pushed hard. The 
geometry between them was at least real close...that I remember from 
reading the charts way back then. The lugs are unique and from Matt Grimm 
from his 'lugged' days. Last I spoke to Matt he was hanging out in Berkeley 
Ca. 

Smooth Tracks,
Chris
Redding, Ca.

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Re: [RBW] Re: When is a bike old?

[Steve Palincsar]

Well, I ride with several people who have electronic shifting, and not 
one of them has any need for milliseconds, and none of them sprints.  I 
honestly don't think any of them bought these systems for any perceived 
benefits other than "having the latest and best."



On 02/28/2017 02:28 AM, Joe Bernard wrote:

I always assumed it was devised to make shifting faster, with less effort, in 
the peloton: Faster buys you milliseconds in the sprint, less effort saves your 
hands on stage races where you're doing crazy miles for a week or more. I'm not 
sure this translates to a need in recreational riding, but some folks are 
willing to pay for the benefits.



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Re: [RBW] Re: When is a bike old?

['Stephen Kemp' via RBW Owners Bunch]

I thought Brewster was being facetious.

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[RBW] Re: Nitto R26 rack

[Ron Mc]

educated guess is 55 lbs.  

On Monday, February 27, 2017 at 11:29:29 PM UTC-6, C Lin wrote:
>
> Any one know what is the max load rating? I can't find it on line
>
> Thanks,
>
> Carlos
>

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