Re: [RBW] Re: Transporting a fendered tandem

[René Sterental]

Found this one on YouTube: EZLoadTandemRack. Aside from the fact that it's
wider than a regular car, it is as simple as can be. Has anyone used it?

René

On Thu, Apr 20, 2017 at 8:49 PM eflayer  wrote:

> Rocky Mounts makes a good one that one person can load without undue
> stress. Unique swivel front fork mount makes it doable:
>
> https://rockymounts.com/products/tandem-mount-r4
>
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3cXGa5Oz2mY
>
>
> On Wednesday, March 22, 2017 at 3:37:40 AM UTC-7, Daniel Jackson wrote:
>
>> Curious what folks recommend for carrying a fendered tandem on a car.
>>
>> Considering the rocky Mounts R4 rack but am concerned that the front
>> fender will preclude mounting. Is this often the case with roof racks like
>> these? I've always used hitch racks with bikes so have no experience with
>> racks up top.
>>
>> Thanks for the suggestions.
>>
>> Best,
>> D.
>>
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Re: [RBW] Re: The One in Which LeahFoy is Chased by Vicious Dog on TBBITW and Lives Another Day

[Joe Bernard]

Honestly, this is one of the things I like about my ebike, especially on the 
hills I can't climb fast. Vallejo has a bad "it's cool to walk my scary dog off 
leash" problem, and I REALLY like being able to get the hell outta there. 
Leah's story is cute 'cause of the size of the chaser and how funny she writes 
it, but that was a potentially hazardous situation for her, and her dog in the 
basket. 

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Re: [RBW] Re: The One in Which LeahFoy is Chased by Vicious Dog on TBBITW and Lives Another Day

[René Sterental]

That's such a wonderful funny story!!! Now you know why you may think about
riding with 2 GoPro cameras, one facing forward and one facing rearwards.
You never know when they're going to come in handy!

Still laughing hard!

René

On Thu, Apr 20, 2017 at 10:20 PM Evan E.  wrote:

> Love it. (Leah, could you post a new story each week, please?)
>
>
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[RBW] Re: best way to ship?

[Hugh Smitham]

Thanks for the question Jim, I've been wondering the same. Like you I 
usually include shipping and lose. USPS it is.

~Hugh

On Thursday, April 20, 2017 at 2:28:34 PM UTC-7, Jim S. wrote:
>
> Hi all,
>
> I occasionally sell and buy various items from other members on this site. 
> I usually pay for the shipping as part of the deal - but eegad, USPS seems 
> pricey. Even really small packages are > $11. Does anyone have any ideas on 
> how to ship things more economically? Seems like a small box ought to be 
> $5, but it could be that that's the going rate, and I'm out of touch.
>
>
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Braking for Tandems - from the Santana website

[René Sterental]

Great insight! Thank you for sharing it.

One question on the barcon for the drag brake. What kind of cable do you
use? Shifter cable that fits in the barcon but may be too thin, or brake
cable that is thicker and may not fit through the barcon? Or were these
Suntour barcons capable of handling both?

René

On Thu, Apr 20, 2017 at 9:02 PM Ray Varella  wrote:

> I've had a tandem for over 30 years and my drag brake is an Arai drum.
> It has been controlled by a Suntour bar on until recently and it is now
> controlled by a Suntour thumbshifter.
>
> In many years of tandeming, with numerous different stokers, it is my
> humble opinion that it is asking a lot of a stoker to be attentive 100% of
> the time so they can apply the drag/emergency brake.
> For a dedicated tandem team that always rides together and the stoker is
> always attentive, things may be different.
> My personal experience is to communicate bumps and intentions to the
> stoker but to handle all the controls for the sake of safety.
>
> I wonder if a barcon pulls enough cable for a disc?
>
> Ray
> Vallejo CA
>
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[RBW] Re: The One in Which LeahFoy is Chased by Vicious Dog on TBBITW and Lives Another Day

[Evan E.]

Love it. (Leah, could you post a new story each week, please?) 


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Re: [RBW] Re: Braking for Tandems - from the Santana website

[Ray Varella]

I've had a tandem for over 30 years and my drag brake is an Arai drum. 
It has been controlled by a Suntour bar on until recently and it is now 
controlled by a Suntour thumbshifter. 

In many years of tandeming, with numerous different stokers, it is my humble 
opinion that it is asking a lot of a stoker to be attentive 100% of the time so 
they can apply the drag/emergency brake. 
For a dedicated tandem team that always rides together and the stoker is always 
attentive, things may be different. 
My personal experience is to communicate bumps and intentions to the stoker but 
to handle all the controls for the sake of safety. 

I wonder if a barcon pulls enough cable for a disc?

Ray
Vallejo CA

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[RBW] Re: Transporting a fendered tandem

[eflayer]

Rocky Mounts makes a good one that one person can load without undue 
stress. Unique swivel front fork mount makes it doable:

https://rockymounts.com/products/tandem-mount-r4

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3cXGa5Oz2mY

On Wednesday, March 22, 2017 at 3:37:40 AM UTC-7, Daniel Jackson wrote:
>
> Curious what folks recommend for carrying a fendered tandem on a car. 
>
> Considering the rocky Mounts R4 rack but am concerned that the front 
> fender will preclude mounting. Is this often the case with roof racks like 
> these? I've always used hitch racks with bikes so have no experience with 
> racks up top. 
>
> Thanks for the suggestions.
>
> Best,
> D. 
>
>

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[RBW] Re: Transporting a fendered tandem

[eflayer]

On Wednesday, March 22, 2017 at 3:37:40 AM UTC-7, Daniel Jackson wrote:
>
> Curious what folks recommend for carrying a fendered tandem on a car. 
>
> Considering the rocky Mounts R4 rack but am concerned that the front 
> fender will preclude mounting. Is this often the case with roof racks like 
> these? I've always used hitch racks with bikes so have no experience with 
> racks up top. 
>
> Thanks for the suggestions.
>
> Best,
> D. 
>
>

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[RBW] Re: FS Ergon GSI black grips

[Bruce Smitham]

The grips are sold

On Thursday, April 20, 2017 at 11:24:39 AM UTC-7, Bruce Smitham wrote:
>
> For sale are some very lightly used Ergon GSI black grips. I had them on 
> my Jones Bars and switched to ESI chunky grips. Asking $20 plus shipping 
> CONUS
>
> Pics: https://flic.kr/s/aHskUisADL
>
> Thanks,
>
> Bruce
>

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[RBW] The One in Which LeahFoy is Chased by Vicious Dog on TBBITW and Lives Another Day

[Joe Bernard]

"Leg of Leah." 

Your stories kill me. (I need the 'tears of laughter' emoji here. Wait, I think 
I have one! ).

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[RBW] The One in Which LeahFoy is Chased by Vicious Dog on TBBITW and Lives Another Day

[LeahFoy]

TBBITW and I have put on the miles today. I had loaded up my little American 
Eskimo Dogg in his Wald basket (he drives a large Wald; he only drives 
American) on TBBITW to take him to the vet for boarding. The plan was for him 
to drive his Wald to the vet, drop him off and continue on to school on TBBITW 
to retrieve my sons. I had gone no further than a few houses before I noticed a 
neighbor and her off-leash miniature Schnauzer in their yard. "Milo" began to 
have conniptions, barking and growling and straining, but his mistress had him 
by his collar, so we exchanged hellos and I pedaled on. Not five seconds later 
I heard the sound of canine nails scraping pavement at a rapid pace behind me. 
There was Milo, full of fury and in hot pursuit of me, the Wald-driving Dogg 
and TBBITW. Was it Wald envy? Backabike bag envy? Doggs-in-high-places envy? We 
will never know because Milo's not saying. 

At that moment I had to make a choice. Do I stop so his owner can grab him and 
hope I won't have to pry my leg loose from his jaw? Do I trust my Dogg, who is 
now standing up in his Wald not to jump out and retaliate? I looked down at my 
bare legs. I was wearing my favorite yellow and white striped shorts ("My 
little lemon drop! My sunflower!" exclaimed my husband this morning.) and 
open-toe sandals. No. I'd like to keep my flesh, and my shorts look better 
without bloodstains. I decided he could neither be THAT persistent, nor that 
fast. I'd take off at a quick pace and he'd give up and go home in less than a 
block.

I rounded the corner with Milo's mistress screaming behind me, 
"MIIILLOO!!!" but my course was set and my tires were eating up the 
road before me. I chanced a glance back and unbelievably, Milo was keeping 
pace! In fact, he was but a few feet behind me! He was lunging for my left 
Backabike bag! I sent up a silent prayer that I'd have it in me to go faster 
for longer. I was now on the open road leaving the neighborhood, a quarter mile 
into the chase. Milo was breathing harder but showed no signs of giving up. I 
pedaled harder and managed to put 30 feet between us. It was at this point I 
realized that the enraged and persistent Milo was at risk of becoming roadkill. 
I wanted to veer onto a sidewalk to get him off the road, but was moving too 
fast to do it safely - remember, my Dogg is still driving the Wald - not a 
stable arrangement. I approached an intersection, and noticed a woman in a 
large white SUV yielding to me at her stop sign. She could clearly see me, but 
she would not likely see Milo 30 feet behind me until he was under her tires. I 
had to communicate with her but how? I met her eyes, then turned my head and 
upper body backwards, as if watching something behind me. It worked. She 
noticed my pursuer and pulled up to me, slowing.

I slowed as she asked through her lowered window, "Is that your dog?" 

"No!" I yelled, "He's trying to bite me!" Not eloquent, but I was WINDED. Milo 
saw his chance and seized it with all four canines. He closed the distance and 
was nearly upon me. I hit the pedals harder and begged my Dogg to sit down in 
his Wald.

She sped off ahead of me, and I thought great, she's left me to deal with him 
alone. We were now nearing the one mile mark of the chase and the roundabout 
was looming. I would have to stop and yield to cars here. Milo would surely get 
his chance at a Leg of Leah. Not even the Wald-driving Dogg and the TBBITW 
would save me now. 

Suddenly, a ways ahead of me, the white SUV swerved right and stopped. I passed 
her and as I looked back, I saw her jump out and intercept Milo!!! He had a 
collar and I knew he'd be returned home. I nearly laughed with relief as I 
approached the roundabout and safely swirled downhill toward the vet's. 

The doorbell rang this evening and there stood Milo's mistress. She had somehow 
tracked down my address for the sake of profuse apologizing and requests to 
make this right. I apologized, too. I knew his mistress couldn't catch us and 
that Milo could have been lost to her forevermore. All's well and there wasn't 
an ounce of anger between us and Milo is now going to be leashed 100% of the 
time.

If you ever have a similar encounter, may you have a Wald-driving Dogg and a 
TBBITW to usher you through it.

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[RBW] WTB: (2) - as in a pair of - Nitto Rack Strut Bolts

[Mike K.]

Good evening, gang. I just bought a Marks' rack with one set of struts from 
another lister, so I thought, "hey, I can just go on Riv and buy the short 
struts." So I did that, but they are out of stock of the bolts to attach 
the things to the rack. As is Ben's, Velo doesn't sell them, and Google 
doesn't return any other results.

Does anyone have an extra set by chance or is just using one set of struts 
and can sell a guy the second set of bolts? Or if you know another bike 
site to check out, I'll do it immediately.

Thanks,
Mike in ATX

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Re: [RBW] Re: Braking for Tandems - from the Santana website

[René Sterental]

Ja ja ja ja!!! Very true.

On Thu, Apr 20, 2017 at 7:03 PM ted  wrote:

> If the stoker thinks it's too fast, better slow down.
> First rule of tandems: the stoker is never wrong.
> Second rule: see first rule.
> Third rule: ibid
>
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[RBW] Anyone use a Sackville GrabSack as a handlebar bag?

[Christopher Murray]

Was wondering if anyone has used the GrabSack as a handlebar bag? If so, how'd 
you do it? I have one and it is a great bag but definitely under utilized. I'd 
love to find a way to quickly mount it so that I could bring it in with me 
without spending more than a few seconds fiddling with it. 

Cheers!
Chris

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Re: [RBW] Re: Braking for Tandems - from the Santana website

[ted]

If the stoker thinks it's too fast, better slow down.
First rule of tandems: the stoker is never wrong.
Second rule: see first rule. 
Third rule: ibid

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[RBW] Re: 54.5 (I think?) atlantis on ebay

[Belopsky]

http://www.ebay.com/itm/J-L-Vintage-Classic-70-80s-NOS-Threaded-Quill-Stem-31-8-80mm-22-2mm-/351784121927?var==item51e7f7b647:m:mKC201N2YO7ttGsEyeP1WDw

On Thursday, April 20, 2017 at 9:38:55 PM UTC-4, Johnny Alien wrote:
>
> It just goes to a "not available" page for me.  Maybe that's temporary? 
>  The fact that it's an online shop on a non-secure server is actually 
> pretty troubling.
>

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[RBW] Re: 54.5 (I think?) atlantis on ebay

[Johnny Alien]

It just goes to a "not available" page for me.  Maybe that's temporary? 
 The fact that it's an online shop on a non-secure server is actually 
pretty troubling.

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[RBW] Re: 54.5 (I think?) atlantis on ebay

[Belopsky]

 https://wearefactoryfive.com/products/f5-titan-stem

On Thursday, April 20, 2017 at 8:54:32 PM UTC-4, Johnny Alien wrote:
>
> Thanks for that info. I was unfamiliar with that stem and I have a few 
> 31.8 bars that I would love to use on my classic bikes.  Unfortunately they 
> don't seem to be for sale anywhere.
>

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[RBW] Re: 54.5 (I think?) atlantis on ebay

[Johnny Alien]

Thanks for that info. I was unfamiliar with that stem and I have a few 31.8 
bars that I would love to use on my classic bikes.  Unfortunately they 
don't seem to be for sale anywhere.

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[RBW] FS: Many Parts Brooks, Sackville, Nitto, Phil Wood, Noodles, Sugino, etc.

[Mattt]

I did my best to describe. Please ask any questions.  All prices include 
shipping within CONUS.  Paypal is form of payment.  I had these parts under 
my Sam Hillborne Frame post, but wanted to break out.  Link to pictures 
below.  


https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B3njnWUSiXUHM1lURlhjc0hzQVU


Front wheel - 700c Velocity Synergy with Phil Wood hub built by Rich at 
Hands on Wheels ($175)


Rear wheel - 700c Velocity Dyad with Phil Wood cassette hub built by Rich 
at Hands on Wheels ($250)


-Buy both wheels for $375


Shimano 9 speed 11-34t, CS-M770 ($30)


Shimano Deore XT Derailler ($30)


Sugino RD crank 175mm, 130 BCD – No chainring ($60)


-Because there a lot of variants of the Sugino cranks, this is the cranks 
listed on bencycle.

- 
http://www.benscycle.com/p-902-sugino-rd-single-speed-crank-arms-black.aspx

 

44t Wolftooth chainring, Black in color, 130 BCD ($57)


Silver Wolf Tooth chainring bolts, set of 5 ($15)


Buy Crank and chainring together for $105, This combo is great for 1xN, I 
will include the bolts if buying together.


Made in Japan IRD Bottom Bracket – 110mm ($35)


MKS touring prime pedals with power grips.  If you don’t want the power 
grips, I can take them off. ($25)


Nitto 83 seat post ($60)


Brooks B17 Special – Honey in color ($80)


Nitto Dirt Drop Stem ($37)


Nitto Technomic Stem – 80mm ($22) -I did my best at measuring.


46mm Nitto Noodles ($43)


48mm Nitto Noodles ($43)


Tektro RL520 brake levers for v brakes ($15)


Avid Single digit 7 v brakes – ($38)


Sackville Xsmall – Grey ($50)


MKS GR-9 Pedals with clips ($20)


Silver Shifters on Velo Orange Thumbies.  I think it is missing a shim and 
the barrel adjusters so buyer beware.  ($20)


Shimano Tiagra Road Brake Levers.  I believe the Tiagra is the specific 
model. ($12)

 

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[RBW] For sale Trico Sports hardshell iron case and truck bed bar

[Ray Varella]

Trico Iron Case is sold. 

Truck bed rack still available. 

Thank you,
Ray

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[RBW] Re: FS: Nitto M18 Rack and 90mm Technomic Stem

[Michael Ullmer]

All sold, thanks all!

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[RBW] Re: FS: Four Irish Straps

[Michael Ullmer]

And sold, thanks!

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[RBW] Re: FS: 64cm Sam Hillborne

[Mattt]

I had to time to take pictures of the Sam Hillborne frame. Link to picture 
below.


https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B3njnWUSiXUHUWZLZVcwaWVTc2M

 

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Re: [RBW] Re: Braking for Tandems - from the Santana website

[René Sterental]

Oh, I see. I did a search on Suntour Barcon and realized you are
controlling the drag brake with a friction shifter. Ingenious!

I wonder if it makes more sense to have the captain control all the
braking, which means that adjusting the drag brake while already on the
descent means releasing the rear V-brake, or have it as Grant configured
it, where the stoker regulates the drag brake.

Just as long as the stoker doesn't want to just force the captain to just
go slower... :-)

René

On Thu, Apr 20, 2017 at 4:43 PM, René Sterental  wrote:

> The Hubbuhubbuh comes configured with only a rear disc brake, just like
> Santana recommends. When I spoke with Grant last year, he explained the
> concept of the drag brake, and in their demo tandem, it was the stoker who
> controlled it. I can't remember if the lever was different to be able to
> keep it partially depressed to keep the drag constant, or if the stoker
> needed to keep pressing it to slow the bike. I'll check when I go there,
> but am interested in the reference you make to how Eric controlled it with
> the Suntour barcon.
>
> Eric, can you explain it to me?
>
> Thank you,
>
> René
>
> On Thu, Apr 20, 2017 at 4:41 PM, René Sterental 
> wrote:
>
>> Bill, good catch on their typo! Ja ja ja ja!!!
>>
>> On Thu, Apr 20, 2017 at 4:10 PM, Bill Lindsay 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> That truly is a forward-thinking articleconsidering it was written
>>> in the future!  It was written in November of 2017!  Do they have flying
>>> cars in the future?
>>>
>>> Bill "Marty-McFly" Lindsay
>>> El Cerrito, CA
>>>
>>>
>>> On Thursday, April 20, 2017 at 3:42:39 PM UTC-7, René wrote:

 As I'm gearing up to enter the wonderful (hopefully for my wife) world
 of tandem riding, and am getting set to build up my upcoming Hubbuhubbuh
 sometime in the next month after the frame is delivered and in between my
 business trips, I'm starting to do some research to better understand how
 tandems work and behave.

 I was debating the merits of having the captain (me) control both front
 and rear V Paul B-brakes and having my stoker control the disc brake, which
 is supposed to be a drag brake (learning what that means), vs. me
 controlling the rear disc brake and the stoker the rear V brake when I
 discovered this excellent article on the Santana website (which is opposed
 to what most people do with tandems). I really enjoyed the explanation, the
 data supporting the claims and the enlightenment it gave me, that I decided
 to share it here for the benefit of other (like me) total newbies to the
 world of tandems.

 It all makes perfect Rivsense.

 *UNDERSTANDING BRAKING*

 Today, all of cycling is infatuated with disc brakes. A common belief
 is that bicycles are finally catching up with the technology of cars and
 motorcycles, where disc brakes proved superior decades earlier. If you
 accept this common premise you might view rim brakes as old-fashioned, or
 destined for the scrap heap. After all, you might be thinking, mountain
 bikes have already switched to discs. Can road bikes be far behind?

 *“Shouldn’t my new tandem come equipped with a shiny pair of disc
 brakes?”*

 Actually, no…

 What’s missing is the simple realization that a bicycle’s rim brakes
 are, in fact, disc brakes. Rim brakes have always been disc brakes. When
 cars and motorcycles were fitted with disc brakes, they caught up to the
 braking efficiency bicyclists had known for a half-century.

 But, you might ask, aren’t motorcycle-style disc brakes more powerful?

 Surprisingly, no. The engineers at Shimano and Avid (companies that
 produce both types) have confirmed Santana’s test results. Even the newest
 and most powerful bicycle disc brakes haven’t yet caught up the power of
 the best V-style (or linear-pull) rim brake.

 The inescapable limitation for the motorcycle-styled brakes is that the
 rotor (or disc) is too small. Anyone who understands bicycle disc brakes
 will agree that with exactly the same hand lever, hand strength and
 caliper, an 8-inch (203mm) disc will stop a bike about twice as effectively
 as a 4-inch disc. This is true because braking power is a function of
 leverage, and is directly proportional to the length of the lever arm
 (which, in the case of all bicycle brakes, is the distance from the axle to
 the braking surface). With a rotor twice as large, the same amount of hand
 power provides doubled braking power, which allows you to stop twice as
 quickly—and in half the distance.

 *More Leverage = Faster Stops*

 A rim brake’s advantage is the diameter of the rim. On a 700c road bike
 the diameter is 622mm. From this we can appreciate that a road bike’s rim
 brake applies power at a 

Re: [RBW] Re: Braking for Tandems - from the Santana website

[René Sterental]

The Hubbuhubbuh comes configured with only a rear disc brake, just like
Santana recommends. When I spoke with Grant last year, he explained the
concept of the drag brake, and in their demo tandem, it was the stoker who
controlled it. I can't remember if the lever was different to be able to
keep it partially depressed to keep the drag constant, or if the stoker
needed to keep pressing it to slow the bike. I'll check when I go there,
but am interested in the reference you make to how Eric controlled it with
the Suntour barcon.

Eric, can you explain it to me?

Thank you,

René

On Thu, Apr 20, 2017 at 4:41 PM, René Sterental  wrote:

> Bill, good catch on their typo! Ja ja ja ja!!!
>
> On Thu, Apr 20, 2017 at 4:10 PM, Bill Lindsay  wrote:
>
>> That truly is a forward-thinking articleconsidering it was written in
>> the future!  It was written in November of 2017!  Do they have flying cars
>> in the future?
>>
>> Bill "Marty-McFly" Lindsay
>> El Cerrito, CA
>>
>>
>> On Thursday, April 20, 2017 at 3:42:39 PM UTC-7, René wrote:
>>>
>>> As I'm gearing up to enter the wonderful (hopefully for my wife) world
>>> of tandem riding, and am getting set to build up my upcoming Hubbuhubbuh
>>> sometime in the next month after the frame is delivered and in between my
>>> business trips, I'm starting to do some research to better understand how
>>> tandems work and behave.
>>>
>>> I was debating the merits of having the captain (me) control both front
>>> and rear V Paul B-brakes and having my stoker control the disc brake, which
>>> is supposed to be a drag brake (learning what that means), vs. me
>>> controlling the rear disc brake and the stoker the rear V brake when I
>>> discovered this excellent article on the Santana website (which is opposed
>>> to what most people do with tandems). I really enjoyed the explanation, the
>>> data supporting the claims and the enlightenment it gave me, that I decided
>>> to share it here for the benefit of other (like me) total newbies to the
>>> world of tandems.
>>>
>>> It all makes perfect Rivsense.
>>>
>>> *UNDERSTANDING BRAKING*
>>>
>>> Today, all of cycling is infatuated with disc brakes. A common belief is
>>> that bicycles are finally catching up with the technology of cars and
>>> motorcycles, where disc brakes proved superior decades earlier. If you
>>> accept this common premise you might view rim brakes as old-fashioned, or
>>> destined for the scrap heap. After all, you might be thinking, mountain
>>> bikes have already switched to discs. Can road bikes be far behind?
>>>
>>> *“Shouldn’t my new tandem come equipped with a shiny pair of disc
>>> brakes?”*
>>>
>>> Actually, no…
>>>
>>> What’s missing is the simple realization that a bicycle’s rim brakes
>>> are, in fact, disc brakes. Rim brakes have always been disc brakes. When
>>> cars and motorcycles were fitted with disc brakes, they caught up to the
>>> braking efficiency bicyclists had known for a half-century.
>>>
>>> But, you might ask, aren’t motorcycle-style disc brakes more powerful?
>>>
>>> Surprisingly, no. The engineers at Shimano and Avid (companies that
>>> produce both types) have confirmed Santana’s test results. Even the newest
>>> and most powerful bicycle disc brakes haven’t yet caught up the power of
>>> the best V-style (or linear-pull) rim brake.
>>>
>>> The inescapable limitation for the motorcycle-styled brakes is that the
>>> rotor (or disc) is too small. Anyone who understands bicycle disc brakes
>>> will agree that with exactly the same hand lever, hand strength and
>>> caliper, an 8-inch (203mm) disc will stop a bike about twice as effectively
>>> as a 4-inch disc. This is true because braking power is a function of
>>> leverage, and is directly proportional to the length of the lever arm
>>> (which, in the case of all bicycle brakes, is the distance from the axle to
>>> the braking surface). With a rotor twice as large, the same amount of hand
>>> power provides doubled braking power, which allows you to stop twice as
>>> quickly—and in half the distance.
>>>
>>> *More Leverage = Faster Stops*
>>>
>>> A rim brake’s advantage is the diameter of the rim. On a 700c road bike
>>> the diameter is 622mm. From this we can appreciate that a road bike’s rim
>>> brake applies power at a leverage point that’s over three times more
>>> effective than that of an 8-inch disc. While bicycle rim brakes may seem
>>> crude or old fashioned, a 300% difference in leverage (and braking power)
>>> can’t be ignored. Additionally, those who value overall efficiency should
>>> also consider that a rim brake’s “disc” is not only three times larger, the
>>> weight savings of using an aluminum rim as your rotor saves a half-pound
>>> per wheel.
>>>
>>> Single bike riders (along with the engineers at Shimano and Avid) will
>>> reply that disc brakes have more than enough power for single bikes. We
>>> agree. On a single bike, a rear 8-inch disc has enough power to lock the

Re: [RBW] Re: Braking for Tandems - from the Santana website

[René Sterental]

Bill, good catch on their typo! Ja ja ja ja!!!

On Thu, Apr 20, 2017 at 4:10 PM, Bill Lindsay  wrote:

> That truly is a forward-thinking articleconsidering it was written in
> the future!  It was written in November of 2017!  Do they have flying cars
> in the future?
>
> Bill "Marty-McFly" Lindsay
> El Cerrito, CA
>
>
> On Thursday, April 20, 2017 at 3:42:39 PM UTC-7, René wrote:
>>
>> As I'm gearing up to enter the wonderful (hopefully for my wife) world of
>> tandem riding, and am getting set to build up my upcoming Hubbuhubbuh
>> sometime in the next month after the frame is delivered and in between my
>> business trips, I'm starting to do some research to better understand how
>> tandems work and behave.
>>
>> I was debating the merits of having the captain (me) control both front
>> and rear V Paul B-brakes and having my stoker control the disc brake, which
>> is supposed to be a drag brake (learning what that means), vs. me
>> controlling the rear disc brake and the stoker the rear V brake when I
>> discovered this excellent article on the Santana website (which is opposed
>> to what most people do with tandems). I really enjoyed the explanation, the
>> data supporting the claims and the enlightenment it gave me, that I decided
>> to share it here for the benefit of other (like me) total newbies to the
>> world of tandems.
>>
>> It all makes perfect Rivsense.
>>
>> *UNDERSTANDING BRAKING*
>>
>> Today, all of cycling is infatuated with disc brakes. A common belief is
>> that bicycles are finally catching up with the technology of cars and
>> motorcycles, where disc brakes proved superior decades earlier. If you
>> accept this common premise you might view rim brakes as old-fashioned, or
>> destined for the scrap heap. After all, you might be thinking, mountain
>> bikes have already switched to discs. Can road bikes be far behind?
>>
>> *“Shouldn’t my new tandem come equipped with a shiny pair of disc
>> brakes?”*
>>
>> Actually, no…
>>
>> What’s missing is the simple realization that a bicycle’s rim brakes are,
>> in fact, disc brakes. Rim brakes have always been disc brakes. When cars
>> and motorcycles were fitted with disc brakes, they caught up to the braking
>> efficiency bicyclists had known for a half-century.
>>
>> But, you might ask, aren’t motorcycle-style disc brakes more powerful?
>>
>> Surprisingly, no. The engineers at Shimano and Avid (companies that
>> produce both types) have confirmed Santana’s test results. Even the newest
>> and most powerful bicycle disc brakes haven’t yet caught up the power of
>> the best V-style (or linear-pull) rim brake.
>>
>> The inescapable limitation for the motorcycle-styled brakes is that the
>> rotor (or disc) is too small. Anyone who understands bicycle disc brakes
>> will agree that with exactly the same hand lever, hand strength and
>> caliper, an 8-inch (203mm) disc will stop a bike about twice as effectively
>> as a 4-inch disc. This is true because braking power is a function of
>> leverage, and is directly proportional to the length of the lever arm
>> (which, in the case of all bicycle brakes, is the distance from the axle to
>> the braking surface). With a rotor twice as large, the same amount of hand
>> power provides doubled braking power, which allows you to stop twice as
>> quickly—and in half the distance.
>>
>> *More Leverage = Faster Stops*
>>
>> A rim brake’s advantage is the diameter of the rim. On a 700c road bike
>> the diameter is 622mm. From this we can appreciate that a road bike’s rim
>> brake applies power at a leverage point that’s over three times more
>> effective than that of an 8-inch disc. While bicycle rim brakes may seem
>> crude or old fashioned, a 300% difference in leverage (and braking power)
>> can’t be ignored. Additionally, those who value overall efficiency should
>> also consider that a rim brake’s “disc” is not only three times larger, the
>> weight savings of using an aluminum rim as your rotor saves a half-pound
>> per wheel.
>>
>> Single bike riders (along with the engineers at Shimano and Avid) will
>> reply that disc brakes have more than enough power for single bikes. We
>> agree. On a single bike, a rear 8-inch disc has enough power to lock the
>> rear wheel. On a tandem, however, an 8-inch disc isn’t powerful enough to
>> skid the rear tire. Think we’re wrong? Take any road tandem with a rear
>> disc and (with a stoker aboard) attempt a rear wheel skid on smooth, dry,
>> level pavement (without applying the front brake at the same time). People
>> who try this test are invariably disappointed when they fail to skid the
>> tire. Next, perform the same test on any tandem with a rear V-brake to
>> prove to yourself that rim brakes are considerably more powerful, and will
>> easily skid a tandem’s rear tire.
>>
>> Look at is this way: If a 6-inch rear disc is barely powerful enough for
>> a single, a twice-as-heavy tandem will need a 12-inch disc to obtain the
>> same degree of 

[RBW] Re: FS: Four Irish Straps

[REC]

Mike,
PM sent.
Roberta

On Thursday, April 20, 2017 at 7:08:32 PM UTC-4, Michael Ullmer wrote:

> Spring cleaning turned up four Irish Straps I don't remember purchasing. 
> One of them is cut shorter than the rest.
>
> $20 shipped CONUS.
>
> Pics here: https://goo.gl/photos/Ctf9j2poMQ4d3Hhk9
>

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Re: [RBW] FS: Four Irish Straps

[Mike Williams]

I'll take em Michael

Sent from my iPhone

> On Apr 20, 2017, at 4:08 PM, Michael Ullmer  wrote:
> 
> Spring cleaning turned up four Irish Straps I don't remember purchasing. One 
> of them is cut shorter than the rest.
> 
> $20 shipped CONUS.
> 
> Pics here: https://goo.gl/photos/Ctf9j2poMQ4d3Hhk9
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[RBW] Re: 54.5 (I think?) atlantis on ebay

[Belopsky]

The stem is a Factory5 titan. 90mm, 31.8mm open face quill. It's awesome - 
I was going to run it on my Vigorelli but needed something longer - it only 
comes in a 90. If I ever want to run some longer reach bars on my Vigorelli 
I'll try it out.

On Thursday, April 20, 2017 at 6:06:41 PM UTC-4, Joe Bernard wrote:
>
> It's a quill open-face, which is kinda unusual. 

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Re: [RBW] best way to ship?

[Patrick Moore]

Below 12 oz, ship first class and rates are much cheaper than for Priority,
where rates start now at $7.15 for the small flat rate box and $6.65 for
the small flat rate envelope.

USPS is still cheaper than FedEx and UPS for small packages, IME.

On Thu, Apr 20, 2017 at 3:28 PM, Jim S.  wrote:

> Hi all,
>
> I occasionally sell and buy various items from other members on this site.
> I usually pay for the shipping as part of the deal - but eegad, USPS seems
> pricey. Even really small packages are > $11. Does anyone have any ideas on
> how to ship things more economically? Seems like a small box ought to be
> $5, but it could be that that's the going rate, and I'm out of touch.
>
>
> --
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and writing services, until Demand equals Supply! And there's more! 10%
kickback for any referral resulting in fully paid, list-price contract. And
still more!  I am offering services in trade for a road bike, or frame and
parts, that are period compatible with my AM hub, circa 1937 to 1961. See
my website for what I do and what I charge; email for details.*

Resumes, LinkedIn profiles, bios, and letters that get interviews.
By-the-hour resume and LinkedIn coaching.
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Re: [RBW] Braking for Tandems - from the Santana website

[Eric Norris]

Jan Heine wrote a similar article about disk brakes. You can find it via The 
Google or on Jan's blog.

I'd be very cautious about putting a disk brake on a tandem. As Jan points out 
in his article, putting the braking forces at the end of the fork blades 
requires that the fork be much stronger than normal in order to resist the 
flexing created by the bike and rider's momentum fighting the brake. Standard 
rim brakes keep those forces at the top of the blades near the fork crown, 
which is much stronger (that's also why builders like Alex Singer put their 
centerpull brazeons very close to the fork crown--it makes the brakes stronger 
and more effective).

The tandem I used to own had a drum brake on the rear whose sole purpose was to 
keep downhill speed in check. I controlled it via Suntour barcon--put the brake 
on partially at the top of a long hill and leave it there to keep from going 
too fast. Actual braking was done by brazed-on cantilevers.

--Eric N
www.CampyOnly.com
CampyOnlyGuy.blogspot.com
Twitter: @CampyOnlyGuy

> On Apr 20, 2017, at 3:42 PM, René Sterental  wrote:
> 
> As I'm gearing up to enter the wonderful (hopefully for my wife) world of 
> tandem riding, and am getting set to build up my upcoming Hubbuhubbuh 
> sometime in the next month after the frame is delivered and in between my 
> business trips, I'm starting to do some research to better understand how 
> tandems work and behave. 
> 
> I was debating the merits of having the captain (me) control both front and 
> rear V Paul B-brakes and having my stoker control the disc brake, which is 
> supposed to be a drag brake (learning what that means), vs. me controlling 
> the rear disc brake and the stoker the rear V brake when I discovered this 
> excellent article on the Santana website (which is opposed to what most 
> people do with tandems). I really enjoyed the explanation, the data 
> supporting the claims and the enlightenment it gave me, that I decided to 
> share it here for the benefit of other (like me) total newbies to the world 
> of tandems. 
> 
> It all makes perfect Rivsense. 
> 
> UNDERSTANDING BRAKING
> 
> Today, all of cycling is infatuated with disc brakes. A common belief is that 
> bicycles are finally catching up with the technology of cars and motorcycles, 
> where disc brakes proved superior decades earlier. If you accept this common 
> premise you might view rim brakes as old-fashioned, or destined for the scrap 
> heap. After all, you might be thinking, mountain bikes have already switched 
> to discs. Can road bikes be far behind?
> 
> “Shouldn’t my new tandem come equipped with a shiny pair of disc brakes?”
> 
> Actually, no…
> 
> What’s missing is the simple realization that a bicycle’s rim brakes are, in 
> fact, disc brakes. Rim brakes have always been disc brakes. When cars and 
> motorcycles were fitted with disc brakes, they caught up to the braking 
> efficiency bicyclists had known for a half-century.
> 
> But, you might ask, aren’t motorcycle-style disc brakes more powerful?
> 
> Surprisingly, no. The engineers at Shimano and Avid (companies that produce 
> both types) have confirmed Santana’s test results. Even the newest and most 
> powerful bicycle disc brakes haven’t yet caught up the power of the best 
> V-style (or linear-pull) rim brake.
> 
> The inescapable limitation for the motorcycle-styled brakes is that the rotor 
> (or disc) is too small. Anyone who understands bicycle disc brakes will agree 
> that with exactly the same hand lever, hand strength and caliper, an 8-inch 
> (203mm) disc will stop a bike about twice as effectively as a 4-inch disc. 
> This is true because braking power is a function of leverage, and is directly 
> proportional to the length of the lever arm (which, in the case of all 
> bicycle brakes, is the distance from the axle to the braking surface). With a 
> rotor twice as large, the same amount of hand power provides doubled braking 
> power, which allows you to stop twice as quickly—and in half the distance.
> 
> More Leverage = Faster Stops
> 
> A rim brake’s advantage is the diameter of the rim. On a 700c road bike the 
> diameter is 622mm. From this we can appreciate that a road bike’s rim brake 
> applies power at a leverage point that’s over three times more effective than 
> that of an 8-inch disc. While bicycle rim brakes may seem crude or old 
> fashioned, a 300% difference in leverage (and braking power) can’t be 
> ignored. Additionally, those who value overall efficiency should also 
> consider that a rim brake’s “disc” is not only three times larger, the weight 
> savings of using an aluminum rim as your rotor saves a half-pound per wheel.
> 
> Single bike riders (along with the engineers at Shimano and Avid) will reply 
> that disc brakes have more than enough power for single bikes. We agree. On a 
> single bike, a rear 8-inch disc has enough power to lock the rear wheel. On a 
> tandem, however, an 8-inch disc isn’t 

[RBW] Re: Braking for Tandems - from the Santana website

[Bill Lindsay]

That truly is a forward-thinking articleconsidering it was written in 
the future!  It was written in November of 2017!  Do they have flying cars 
in the future?  

Bill "Marty-McFly" Lindsay
El Cerrito, CA

On Thursday, April 20, 2017 at 3:42:39 PM UTC-7, René wrote:
>
> As I'm gearing up to enter the wonderful (hopefully for my wife) world of 
> tandem riding, and am getting set to build up my upcoming Hubbuhubbuh 
> sometime in the next month after the frame is delivered and in between my 
> business trips, I'm starting to do some research to better understand how 
> tandems work and behave. 
>
> I was debating the merits of having the captain (me) control both front 
> and rear V Paul B-brakes and having my stoker control the disc brake, which 
> is supposed to be a drag brake (learning what that means), vs. me 
> controlling the rear disc brake and the stoker the rear V brake when I 
> discovered this excellent article on the Santana website (which is opposed 
> to what most people do with tandems). I really enjoyed the explanation, the 
> data supporting the claims and the enlightenment it gave me, that I decided 
> to share it here for the benefit of other (like me) total newbies to the 
> world of tandems. 
>
> It all makes perfect Rivsense. 
>
> *UNDERSTANDING BRAKING*
>
> Today, all of cycling is infatuated with disc brakes. A common belief is 
> that bicycles are finally catching up with the technology of cars and 
> motorcycles, where disc brakes proved superior decades earlier. If you 
> accept this common premise you might view rim brakes as old-fashioned, or 
> destined for the scrap heap. After all, you might be thinking, mountain 
> bikes have already switched to discs. Can road bikes be far behind?
>
> *“Shouldn’t my new tandem come equipped with a shiny pair of disc brakes?”*
>
> Actually, no…
>
> What’s missing is the simple realization that a bicycle’s rim brakes are, 
> in fact, disc brakes. Rim brakes have always been disc brakes. When cars 
> and motorcycles were fitted with disc brakes, they caught up to the braking 
> efficiency bicyclists had known for a half-century.
>
> But, you might ask, aren’t motorcycle-style disc brakes more powerful?
>
> Surprisingly, no. The engineers at Shimano and Avid (companies that 
> produce both types) have confirmed Santana’s test results. Even the newest 
> and most powerful bicycle disc brakes haven’t yet caught up the power of 
> the best V-style (or linear-pull) rim brake.
>
> The inescapable limitation for the motorcycle-styled brakes is that the 
> rotor (or disc) is too small. Anyone who understands bicycle disc brakes 
> will agree that with exactly the same hand lever, hand strength and 
> caliper, an 8-inch (203mm) disc will stop a bike about twice as effectively 
> as a 4-inch disc. This is true because braking power is a function of 
> leverage, and is directly proportional to the length of the lever arm 
> (which, in the case of all bicycle brakes, is the distance from the axle to 
> the braking surface). With a rotor twice as large, the same amount of hand 
> power provides doubled braking power, which allows you to stop twice as 
> quickly—and in half the distance.
>
> *More Leverage = Faster Stops*
>
> A rim brake’s advantage is the diameter of the rim. On a 700c road bike 
> the diameter is 622mm. From this we can appreciate that a road bike’s rim 
> brake applies power at a leverage point that’s over three times more 
> effective than that of an 8-inch disc. While bicycle rim brakes may seem 
> crude or old fashioned, a 300% difference in leverage (and braking power) 
> can’t be ignored. Additionally, those who value overall efficiency should 
> also consider that a rim brake’s “disc” is not only three times larger, the 
> weight savings of using an aluminum rim as your rotor saves a half-pound 
> per wheel.
>
> Single bike riders (along with the engineers at Shimano and Avid) will 
> reply that disc brakes have more than enough power for single bikes. We 
> agree. On a single bike, a rear 8-inch disc has enough power to lock the 
> rear wheel. On a tandem, however, an 8-inch disc isn’t powerful enough to 
> skid the rear tire. Think we’re wrong? Take any road tandem with a rear 
> disc and (with a stoker aboard) attempt a rear wheel skid on smooth, dry, 
> level pavement (without applying the front brake at the same time). People 
> who try this test are invariably disappointed when they fail to skid the 
> tire. Next, perform the same test on any tandem with a rear V-brake to 
> prove to yourself that rim brakes are considerably more powerful, and will 
> easily skid a tandem’s rear tire.
>
> Look at is this way: If a 6-inch rear disc is barely powerful enough for a 
> single, a twice-as-heavy tandem will need a 12-inch disc to obtain the same 
> degree of deceleration. If someone tells you an 8-inch disc is “powerful 
> enough” for a tandem, you should ask if a 4-inch rotor is a good enough for 
> a single.
>
> *In an 

Re: [RBW] Braking for Tandems - from the Santana website

[Patrick Moore]

I understand the theory, but I wonder if it corresponds to reality? The
standard sized (140 mm?) rotor on the front of my Matthews provides as much
braking power (ie, ease of locking front wheel) as any V brake I've used.
Granted, single, but I've ridden tandems with shorty Vs and cantis and I
can't extrapolate any deficiency to come up with a disc brake deficiency
here -- and I'm talking about mechanical discs, not hydraulics, in regard
to which the assertion is surely wrong.

On Thu, Apr 20, 2017 at 4:42 PM, René Sterental  wrote:

> As I'm gearing up to enter the wonderful (hopefully for my wife) world of
> tandem riding, and am getting set to build up my upcoming Hubbuhubbuh
> sometime in the next month after the frame is delivered and in between my
> business trips, I'm starting to do some research to better understand how
> tandems work and behave.
>
> I was debating the merits of having the captain (me) control both front
> and rear V Paul B-brakes and having my stoker control the disc brake, which
> is supposed to be a drag brake (learning what that means), vs. me
> controlling the rear disc brake and the stoker the rear V brake when I
> discovered this excellent article on the Santana website (which is opposed
> to what most people do with tandems). I really enjoyed the explanation, the
> data supporting the claims and the enlightenment it gave me, that I decided
> to share it here for the benefit of other (like me) total newbies to the
> world of tandems.
>
> It all makes perfect Rivsense.
>
> *UNDERSTANDING BRAKING*
>
> Today, all of cycling is infatuated with disc brakes. A common belief is
> that bicycles are finally catching up with the technology of cars and
> motorcycles, where disc brakes proved superior decades earlier. If you
> accept this common premise you might view rim brakes as old-fashioned, or
> destined for the scrap heap. After all, you might be thinking, mountain
> bikes have already switched to discs. Can road bikes be far behind?
>
> *“Shouldn’t my new tandem come equipped with a shiny pair of disc brakes?”*
>
> Actually, no…
>
> What’s missing is the simple realization that a bicycle’s rim brakes are,
> in fact, disc brakes. Rim brakes have always been disc brakes. When cars
> and motorcycles were fitted with disc brakes, they caught up to the braking
> efficiency bicyclists had known for a half-century.
>
> But, you might ask, aren’t motorcycle-style disc brakes more powerful?
>
> Surprisingly, no. The engineers at Shimano and Avid (companies that
> produce both types) have confirmed Santana’s test results. Even the newest
> and most powerful bicycle disc brakes haven’t yet caught up the power of
> the best V-style (or linear-pull) rim brake.
>
> The inescapable limitation for the motorcycle-styled brakes is that the
> rotor (or disc) is too small. Anyone who understands bicycle disc brakes
> will agree that with exactly the same hand lever, hand strength and
> caliper, an 8-inch (203mm) disc will stop a bike about twice as effectively
> as a 4-inch disc. This is true because braking power is a function of
> leverage, and is directly proportional to the length of the lever arm
> (which, in the case of all bicycle brakes, is the distance from the axle to
> the braking surface). With a rotor twice as large, the same amount of hand
> power provides doubled braking power, which allows you to stop twice as
> quickly—and in half the distance.
>
> *More Leverage = Faster Stops*
>
> A rim brake’s advantage is the diameter of the rim. On a 700c road bike
> the diameter is 622mm. From this we can appreciate that a road bike’s rim
> brake applies power at a leverage point that’s over three times more
> effective than that of an 8-inch disc. While bicycle rim brakes may seem
> crude or old fashioned, a 300% difference in leverage (and braking power)
> can’t be ignored. Additionally, those who value overall efficiency should
> also consider that a rim brake’s “disc” is not only three times larger, the
> weight savings of using an aluminum rim as your rotor saves a half-pound
> per wheel.
>
> Single bike riders (along with the engineers at Shimano and Avid) will
> reply that disc brakes have more than enough power for single bikes. We
> agree. On a single bike, a rear 8-inch disc has enough power to lock the
> rear wheel. On a tandem, however, an 8-inch disc isn’t powerful enough to
> skid the rear tire. Think we’re wrong? Take any road tandem with a rear
> disc and (with a stoker aboard) attempt a rear wheel skid on smooth, dry,
> level pavement (without applying the front brake at the same time). People
> who try this test are invariably disappointed when they fail to skid the
> tire. Next, perform the same test on any tandem with a rear V-brake to
> prove to yourself that rim brakes are considerably more powerful, and will
> easily skid a tandem’s rear tire.
>
> Look at is this way: If a 6-inch rear disc is barely powerful enough for a
> single, a twice-as-heavy 

[RBW] FS: Four Irish Straps

[Michael Ullmer]

Spring cleaning turned up four Irish Straps I don't remember purchasing. 
One of them is cut shorter than the rest.

$20 shipped CONUS.

Pics here: https://goo.gl/photos/Ctf9j2poMQ4d3Hhk9

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[RBW] Braking for Tandems - from the Santana website

[René Sterental]

As I'm gearing up to enter the wonderful (hopefully for my wife) world of
tandem riding, and am getting set to build up my upcoming Hubbuhubbuh
sometime in the next month after the frame is delivered and in between my
business trips, I'm starting to do some research to better understand how
tandems work and behave.

I was debating the merits of having the captain (me) control both front and
rear V Paul B-brakes and having my stoker control the disc brake, which is
supposed to be a drag brake (learning what that means), vs. me controlling
the rear disc brake and the stoker the rear V brake when I discovered this
excellent article on the Santana website (which is opposed to what most
people do with tandems). I really enjoyed the explanation, the data
supporting the claims and the enlightenment it gave me, that I decided to
share it here for the benefit of other (like me) total newbies to the world
of tandems.

It all makes perfect Rivsense.

*UNDERSTANDING BRAKING*

Today, all of cycling is infatuated with disc brakes. A common belief is
that bicycles are finally catching up with the technology of cars and
motorcycles, where disc brakes proved superior decades earlier. If you
accept this common premise you might view rim brakes as old-fashioned, or
destined for the scrap heap. After all, you might be thinking, mountain
bikes have already switched to discs. Can road bikes be far behind?

*“Shouldn’t my new tandem come equipped with a shiny pair of disc brakes?”*

Actually, no…

What’s missing is the simple realization that a bicycle’s rim brakes are,
in fact, disc brakes. Rim brakes have always been disc brakes. When cars
and motorcycles were fitted with disc brakes, they caught up to the braking
efficiency bicyclists had known for a half-century.

But, you might ask, aren’t motorcycle-style disc brakes more powerful?

Surprisingly, no. The engineers at Shimano and Avid (companies that produce
both types) have confirmed Santana’s test results. Even the newest and most
powerful bicycle disc brakes haven’t yet caught up the power of the best
V-style (or linear-pull) rim brake.

The inescapable limitation for the motorcycle-styled brakes is that the
rotor (or disc) is too small. Anyone who understands bicycle disc brakes
will agree that with exactly the same hand lever, hand strength and
caliper, an 8-inch (203mm) disc will stop a bike about twice as effectively
as a 4-inch disc. This is true because braking power is a function of
leverage, and is directly proportional to the length of the lever arm
(which, in the case of all bicycle brakes, is the distance from the axle to
the braking surface). With a rotor twice as large, the same amount of hand
power provides doubled braking power, which allows you to stop twice as
quickly—and in half the distance.

*More Leverage = Faster Stops*

A rim brake’s advantage is the diameter of the rim. On a 700c road bike the
diameter is 622mm. From this we can appreciate that a road bike’s rim brake
applies power at a leverage point that’s over three times more effective
than that of an 8-inch disc. While bicycle rim brakes may seem crude or old
fashioned, a 300% difference in leverage (and braking power) can’t be
ignored. Additionally, those who value overall efficiency should also
consider that a rim brake’s “disc” is not only three times larger, the
weight savings of using an aluminum rim as your rotor saves a half-pound
per wheel.

Single bike riders (along with the engineers at Shimano and Avid) will
reply that disc brakes have more than enough power for single bikes. We
agree. On a single bike, a rear 8-inch disc has enough power to lock the
rear wheel. On a tandem, however, an 8-inch disc isn’t powerful enough to
skid the rear tire. Think we’re wrong? Take any road tandem with a rear
disc and (with a stoker aboard) attempt a rear wheel skid on smooth, dry,
level pavement (without applying the front brake at the same time). People
who try this test are invariably disappointed when they fail to skid the
tire. Next, perform the same test on any tandem with a rear V-brake to
prove to yourself that rim brakes are considerably more powerful, and will
easily skid a tandem’s rear tire.

Look at is this way: If a 6-inch rear disc is barely powerful enough for a
single, a twice-as-heavy tandem will need a 12-inch disc to obtain the same
degree of deceleration. If someone tells you an 8-inch disc is “powerful
enough” for a tandem, you should ask if a 4-inch rotor is a good enough for
a single.

*In an Emergency, It’s the Front Brake that Matters Most*

Because of “load transfer” the front brakes of cars, motorcycles and
bicycles provide over 80% of emergency stopping power. This explains why
bicycle and car manufactures typically supply bigger discs up front. While
a larger-than 8-inch rotor on the front of a single bike is questionable,
that’s only because a single bike’s stopping power is limited by the “over
the bars” factor. On tandems and cars, however, the limiting factor is

[RBW] Re: kindness

[Davey Two Shoes]

sorry to hear about your friend :(

I agree though, very nice group. My cohorts over of the ss/fg on 
bikeforums.net are quite a bit scrappier haha

On Thursday, April 13, 2017 at 12:58:22 PM UTC-4, Sky Coulter wrote:
>
> There are a lot of bike geek forums and lists out there. In addition to 
> its focus on Rivendell Bicycle Works, what has made this group uniquely 
> appealing to me is the kindness and courtesy members extend to one another. 
>  It isn't an exaggeration to say that it has increased my faith in the 
> basic decency of people.  I mostly just sort of eavesdrop on conversations 
> between other members, but since my main bike geek friend who introduced me 
> to this list passed away, I've been slowly becoming a more active 
> participant.  Strangers in this group, connected by technology and common 
> interest, have helped fill some of the void that my friend's passing left. 
>  So I guess I'd just like to say thank you to everyone for the kind, 
> courteous and respectful interactions; it has really helped me feel 
> connected to a community.
>
> Sky in new west  
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Transporting a fendered tandem

[René Sterental]

Makes sense to mount it on the passenger side when thinking about parking
anywhere but my driveway. Didn't think about that, just loading and
unloading in my driveway. Will do the switch now.

Thanks again!

René

On Thu, Apr 20, 2017 at 3:23 PM Michael Hechmer  wrote:

> PS just as the picture of the Toyota wagon shows, I have found it best
> to mount the bike "backwards."  It makes opening the rear hatch easier and,
> with fenders, seems more aerodynamic.  You have to decide which side of the
> car & which direction you will mount as you assemble the racks.  Also, I
> have found it safer and more convenient to mount the bike on the passenger
> - the curb side - of the car.
>
> Michael
>
>
> On Thursday, April 20, 2017 at 6:16:19 PM UTC-4, Michael Hechmer wrote:
>>
>> I have owned and used both the Atoc/Tule carrier and the Saris.  I much
>> prefer the Saris.  Both racks will do the job, and both have swing out arms
>> to facilitate the mounting.  The Tule secures that arm with a pin, which
>> has a lot of side to side play, and straps across the rear wheel.  The
>> Saris has a beefy screw, which tightens down to zero play, and straps
>> across the boom tube.  When I had the Tule I could look through the moon
>> roof and see the bike moving side to side.  My brain told me it was fine,
>> but my heart never got the message.  In either case, with a heavy steel
>> tandem, it is imperative to get the dropouts into the rack square and
>> tighten it down quite a bit more than a single wheel and fork.  I write
>> this without prejudice and do not use any of the Saris single bike
>> carriers.  I tried one, the bought the much superior 1UP.
>>
>> Michael
>>
>> On Wednesday, March 22, 2017 at 6:37:40 AM UTC-4, Daniel Jackson wrote:
>>>
>>> Curious what folks recommend for carrying a fendered tandem on a car.
>>>
>>> Considering the rocky Mounts R4 rack but am concerned that the front
>>> fender will preclude mounting. Is this often the case with roof racks like
>>> these? I've always used hitch racks with bikes so have no experience with
>>> racks up top.
>>>
>>> Thanks for the suggestions.
>>>
>>> Best,
>>> D.
>>>
>>> --
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Re: [RBW] Re: Transporting a fendered tandem

[Michael Hechmer]

My bad, I wrote Saris, when I should have written Yakima.

On Thursday, April 20, 2017 at 6:20:29 PM UTC-4, René wrote:
>
> Hi Michael,
>
> Appreciate the feedback. I didn't even see the Saris tandem carrier when I 
> did my search, only Yakima and Thule. I can easily return it if I find the 
> Saris and like it. 
>
> I also have the 1UP for my regular bikes and love it. 
>
> René 
>
> On Thu, Apr 20, 2017 at 3:16 PM Michael Hechmer  > wrote:
>
>> I have owned and used both the Atoc/Tule carrier and the Saris.  I much 
>> prefer the Saris.  Both racks will do the job, and both have swing out arms 
>> to facilitate the mounting.  The Tule secures that arm with a pin, which 
>> has a lot of side to side play, and straps across the rear wheel.  The 
>> Saris has a beefy screw, which tightens down to zero play, and straps 
>> across the boom tube.  When I had the Tule I could look through the moon 
>> roof and see the bike moving side to side.  My brain told me it was fine, 
>> but my heart never got the message.  In either case, with a heavy steel 
>> tandem, it is imperative to get the dropouts into the rack square and 
>> tighten it down quite a bit more than a single wheel and fork.  I write 
>> this without prejudice and do not use any of the Saris single bike 
>> carriers.  I tried one, the bought the much superior 1UP.
>>
>> Michael
>>
>> On Wednesday, March 22, 2017 at 6:37:40 AM UTC-4, Daniel Jackson wrote:
>>
>>> Curious what folks recommend for carrying a fendered tandem on a car. 
>>>
>>> Considering the rocky Mounts R4 rack but am concerned that the front 
>>> fender will preclude mounting. Is this often the case with roof racks like 
>>> these? I've always used hitch racks with bikes so have no experience with 
>>> racks up top. 
>>>
>>> Thanks for the suggestions.
>>>
>>> Best,
>>> D. 
>>>
>>> -- 
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>> "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
>> email to rbw-owners-bun...@googlegroups.com .
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>> .
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>>
>

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[RBW] Re: Transporting a fendered tandem

[Michael Hechmer]

PS just as the picture of the Toyota wagon shows, I have found it best 
to mount the bike "backwards."  It makes opening the rear hatch easier and, 
with fenders, seems more aerodynamic.  You have to decide which side of the 
car & which direction you will mount as you assemble the racks.  Also, I 
have found it safer and more convenient to mount the bike on the passenger 
- the curb side - of the car.

Michael

On Thursday, April 20, 2017 at 6:16:19 PM UTC-4, Michael Hechmer wrote:
>
> I have owned and used both the Atoc/Tule carrier and the Saris.  I much 
> prefer the Saris.  Both racks will do the job, and both have swing out arms 
> to facilitate the mounting.  The Tule secures that arm with a pin, which 
> has a lot of side to side play, and straps across the rear wheel.  The 
> Saris has a beefy screw, which tightens down to zero play, and straps 
> across the boom tube.  When I had the Tule I could look through the moon 
> roof and see the bike moving side to side.  My brain told me it was fine, 
> but my heart never got the message.  In either case, with a heavy steel 
> tandem, it is imperative to get the dropouts into the rack square and 
> tighten it down quite a bit more than a single wheel and fork.  I write 
> this without prejudice and do not use any of the Saris single bike 
> carriers.  I tried one, the bought the much superior 1UP.
>
> Michael
>
> On Wednesday, March 22, 2017 at 6:37:40 AM UTC-4, Daniel Jackson wrote:
>>
>> Curious what folks recommend for carrying a fendered tandem on a car. 
>>
>> Considering the rocky Mounts R4 rack but am concerned that the front 
>> fender will preclude mounting. Is this often the case with roof racks like 
>> these? I've always used hitch racks with bikes so have no experience with 
>> racks up top. 
>>
>> Thanks for the suggestions.
>>
>> Best,
>> D. 
>>
>>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Transporting a fendered tandem

[René Sterental]

Hi Michael,

Appreciate the feedback. I didn't even see the Saris tandem carrier when I
did my search, only Yakima and Thule. I can easily return it if I find the
Saris and like it.

I also have the 1UP for my regular bikes and love it.

René

On Thu, Apr 20, 2017 at 3:16 PM Michael Hechmer  wrote:

> I have owned and used both the Atoc/Tule carrier and the Saris.  I much
> prefer the Saris.  Both racks will do the job, and both have swing out arms
> to facilitate the mounting.  The Tule secures that arm with a pin, which
> has a lot of side to side play, and straps across the rear wheel.  The
> Saris has a beefy screw, which tightens down to zero play, and straps
> across the boom tube.  When I had the Tule I could look through the moon
> roof and see the bike moving side to side.  My brain told me it was fine,
> but my heart never got the message.  In either case, with a heavy steel
> tandem, it is imperative to get the dropouts into the rack square and
> tighten it down quite a bit more than a single wheel and fork.  I write
> this without prejudice and do not use any of the Saris single bike
> carriers.  I tried one, the bought the much superior 1UP.
>
> Michael
>
> On Wednesday, March 22, 2017 at 6:37:40 AM UTC-4, Daniel Jackson wrote:
>
>> Curious what folks recommend for carrying a fendered tandem on a car.
>>
>> Considering the rocky Mounts R4 rack but am concerned that the front
>> fender will preclude mounting. Is this often the case with roof racks like
>> these? I've always used hitch racks with bikes so have no experience with
>> racks up top.
>>
>> Thanks for the suggestions.
>>
>> Best,
>> D.
>>
>> --
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>

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[RBW] Re: Transporting a fendered tandem

[Michael Hechmer]

I have owned and used both the Atoc/Tule carrier and the Saris.  I much 
prefer the Saris.  Both racks will do the job, and both have swing out arms 
to facilitate the mounting.  The Tule secures that arm with a pin, which 
has a lot of side to side play, and straps across the rear wheel.  The 
Saris has a beefy screw, which tightens down to zero play, and straps 
across the boom tube.  When I had the Tule I could look through the moon 
roof and see the bike moving side to side.  My brain told me it was fine, 
but my heart never got the message.  In either case, with a heavy steel 
tandem, it is imperative to get the dropouts into the rack square and 
tighten it down quite a bit more than a single wheel and fork.  I write 
this without prejudice and do not use any of the Saris single bike 
carriers.  I tried one, the bought the much superior 1UP.

Michael

On Wednesday, March 22, 2017 at 6:37:40 AM UTC-4, Daniel Jackson wrote:
>
> Curious what folks recommend for carrying a fendered tandem on a car. 
>
> Considering the rocky Mounts R4 rack but am concerned that the front 
> fender will preclude mounting. Is this often the case with roof racks like 
> these? I've always used hitch racks with bikes so have no experience with 
> racks up top. 
>
> Thanks for the suggestions.
>
> Best,
> D. 
>
>

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[RBW] Re: 54.5 (I think?) atlantis on ebay

[Joe Bernard]

It's a quill open-face, which is kinda unusual. 

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[RBW] Re: 54.5 (I think?) atlantis on ebay

['Chris Lampe 2' via RBW Owners Bunch]

Jones H-Bar on a quill stem.  I'm interested in what stem they used.



On Thursday, April 20, 2017 at 3:52:09 PM UTC-5, Belopsky wrote:
>
>
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/vintage-rivendell-atlantis-touring-mountain-bike-22-xl-lugged-steel-shimano-xtr/382050555993
>

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[RBW] Re: 54.5 (I think?) atlantis on ebay

[Joe Bernard]

First-gen XTR bits. Nice. 

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Re: [RBW] best way to ship?

[Steve Palincsar]

USPS is cheaper.   A lot of stuff will fit into their flat rate boxes.


On 04/20/2017 05:28 PM, Jim S. wrote:

Hi all,

I occasionally sell and buy various items from other members on this 
site. I usually pay for the shipping as part of the deal - but eegad, 
USPS seems pricey. Even really small packages are > $11. Does anyone 
have any ideas on how to ship things more economically? Seems like a 
small box ought to be $5, but it could be that that's the going rate, 
and I'm out of touch.


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[RBW] best way to ship?

[Jim S.]

Hi all,

I occasionally sell and buy various items from other members on this site. 
I usually pay for the shipping as part of the deal - but eegad, USPS seems 
pricey. Even really small packages are > $11. Does anyone have any ideas on 
how to ship things more economically? Seems like a small box ought to be 
$5, but it could be that that's the going rate, and I'm out of touch.


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[RBW] Re: For Sale: Sackville TrunkSack Small - Grey

[Jim S.]

sold, thanks.

On Thursday, April 13, 2017 at 10:19:24 AM UTC-5, Jim S. wrote:
>
> $91 shipped.

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[RBW] Re: 54.5 (I think?) atlantis on ebay

[Belopsky]

Maybe 56

On Thursday, April 20, 2017 at 4:52:09 PM UTC-4, Belopsky wrote:
>
>
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/vintage-rivendell-atlantis-touring-mountain-bike-22-xl-lugged-steel-shimano-xtr/382050555993
>

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[RBW] 54.5 (I think?) atlantis on ebay

[Belopsky]

http://www.ebay.com/itm/vintage-rivendell-atlantis-touring-mountain-bike-22-xl-lugged-steel-shimano-xtr/382050555993

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Re: [RBW] Phil BB advice/experience needed

[Eric Norris]

Interesting—that design dates to the early days of cycling and certainly wasn’t 
invented by Specialized. My Pashley Guvnor, built a few years ago per plans 
drawn up by Pashley in the 1920s, has the same basic design:

https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0181/8445/products/pashley_guvnor_bells_bicycles_2_1024x1024.jpg?v=1451339274
 

 

The seatstays have the same basic design, which from the back looks like a wine 
bottle—the straight part is the neck of the bottle at the top. 

--Eric N
campyonly...@me.com 
www.CampyOnly.com
Campyonlyguy.blogspot.com
@Campyonlyguy


> On Apr 20, 2017, at 3:48 AM, Garth  wrote:
> 
> Here is a pic of an 83 Stumpy like the one I had 
> http://bikes.aberrance.com/stumpjumper/20080525CleanedUp/images/20080525Stumpy-020.jpg
> As you can see it is very unique, I have not seen anyone configure the stays 
> like this again. What it self evident in the pic is the straight part is just 
> where the rings needed to be, then it bowed out. There is no chance of any 
> chain suck on these, and it was not until I got a Bombadil did I even know 
> what it was. 
> 
> I have not seen any of the long stay Riv frames in person, but I too have 
> wondered if they do not lend themselves to being straighter near the bb 
> shell, lending to being able to use cranksets maybe the other frames could 
> not, like the AT. 
> 
> If you really think the 127mm with or w/wo spacers will work for you I have a 
> barely used UN72 127 that I used with my Stumpy that I could send you. I have 
> had it laying around since I sold it and well, it is just sitting there 
> waiting for some good use. No charge either.  Btw, I use spacers with 
> cartridges all the time, I have either a 1mm or 1.5mm on my Bombadil right 
> now.  
> 
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[RBW] Re: FS: Sackville ShopSack - large - grey with lil' zippered 6" x 8" pocket

[Jim S.]

sold, thanks.

On Wednesday, April 19, 2017 at 3:39:29 PM UTC-5, Jim S. wrote:
>
> $63 shipped. It's been in my basement unused - I'm just not a large-basket 
> user, despite my plans to the contrary.
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: FS: Appaloosa 51cm blue

[Ryan Fleming]

And considering what a new one costs and considering that you have some 
really nice kit (Nitto stem and 2-bolt seatpost, and those excellent CX-70 
cantilever brakes someone is getting a great bike at a great price

On Wednesday, April 19, 2017 at 3:50:08 PM UTC-5, RichS wrote:
>
> Joe, good luck with the sale! Appa's seem to be moving well so I hope a 
> buyer snaps it up soon.
>
> Any ride is a good ride, even if it does require a bit of an assist.
>
> Take care,
> Richard
>
>
>
> On Wed, Apr 19, 2017 at 3:21 PM, Joe Bernard  > wrote:
>
>> Richard, it's a combination of a lot of changes in my life since last 
>> summer leading to: 1. I'm not riding as much as I used to, and, 2. I always 
>> seem to grab my ebike lately when I do get out there.
>>
>> I live on a very steep hill in a very hilly area, and I never seem to 
>> talk myself into climbing them without a little boost anymore. Those long 
>> grinds aren't fun more me, and often I simply don't have the time for them. 
>> If my joe doesn't sell I won't be sad..it's a wonderful bike and I'll get 
>> out on it occasionally. But it really should go to someone who'll use it 
>> more. We'll see how it goes.
>>
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>

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[RBW] Re: Transporting a fendered tandem

[Ken Yokanovich]

So many things about this photo that I love.Cool car, cool tandem.  Thanks 
for sharing.

On Thursday, April 20, 2017 at 12:51:03 AM UTC-5, Nick Payne wrote:
>
>
> 
>
>
> This is what we used for many years until we sold this car. I made the 
> carrier using about $20 of timber. It's a piece of dressed 100mmx30mm long 
> enough for the wheels to sit on, with pieces of 30x30 screwed on each side 
> at each end to form slots for the wheels to sit in. A couple of galvanized 
> u-bolts hold it onto the roofrack cross members. We would lift the bike on 
> and then the stoker would stand on the rear bumper and hold it upright 
> while I lashed it down to each side from ropes that went around the 
> handlebar stem. Additional ropes went fore and aft from the bottom brackets 
> to prevent the bike moving forwards and backwards. With a bit of practice I 
> could get it on by myself without needing any assistance.
>
> It only took a couple of minutes to get the tandem on or off the rack, and 
> we have driven right across Australia (5000km) and many shorter trips at 
> highway speed with the bike up there. I've looked at the tandem topper rack 
> on a friend's vehicle and thought that our setup was much more stable than 
> theirs.
>
> Nick
>

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[RBW] FS Ergon GSI black grips

[Bruce Smitham]

For sale are some very lightly used Ergon GSI black grips. I had them on my 
Jones Bars and switched to ESI chunky grips. Asking $20 plus shipping CONUS

Pics: https://flic.kr/s/aHskUisADL

Thanks,

Bruce

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[RBW] FS Shimano 105 5800/DT Swiss R460 wheelset (mint condition)

[Bruce Smitham]

For sale is an almost new wheelset. I bought them in late December 2016 and 
have used them for maybe 100 miles after getting my original wheelset back 
from warranty. I have no need for them since I sold the bike and the other 
wheels. They are Shimano 105 5800 hubs 9/10/11 speed Shimano compatable. DT 
Swiss R460 tubeless ready rims and Champion spokes. Front is 700c x 32h x 
9x100mm QR (black) rim brake. Rear is 700c x 32h x 10x130mm QR (black). 
Includes QR skewers and Ritchey rim tape. Asking $250 plus shipping CONUS 
via bikeflights. I've got a box so it's very quick. I'll give a local San 
Diego pick up discount. Here are pictures: https://flic.kr/s/aHskYhEzJH 

Let me know if you have any questions.

Thanks,

Bruce in San Diego

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[RBW] Re: 3M helicopter tape

[Deacon Patrick]

Maybe I'm confused, but isn't this what dirt does on my bike, for free? Mud 
sprays on, dries, then chips off as the rocks hit it. Might even hold 
electric wiring, if I had any. Grin.

With abandon,
Patrick

On Friday, April 7, 2017 at 3:38:43 AM UTC-6, Les Lammers wrote:
>
> Excellent paint protection.
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: (maybe) WTB Brooks B68 - Question regarding brooks saddle for Joe Appaloosa

[Chris Birkenmaier]

I haven't tried the wider Cambium but I do have the C-17.  The sides on the 
back portion of the saddle slope down versus the leather standard ones 
which are pretty flat across the width.  I find that my butt can not 
tolerate the slope on the C-17.  Someone on this list tried the wider 
Cambium and reported the same issue.  I'd still like to try one but without 
buying it first.

On Thursday, April 20, 2017 at 12:58:35 PM UTC-4, Jonathan D. wrote:

> I had the same question. It sounds like it is similar to the B68 with the 
> new material.  

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Re: [RBW] Re: FS: Betty Foy 58 cm frame/fork/BB/brakes/seatpost - $750 + shipping OBO

[René Sterental]

Thank you. Still missing the buyer...

On Thu, Apr 20, 2017 at 9:53 AM Chris Birkenmaier 
wrote:

> Since we are commenting on this posting, I'd like to say that I appreciate
> sellers like you who provide photos showing a ton of close up and different
> angles to view.  Gives the (potential) buyer the information they need for
> assessing condition.  Kudos!
>
>
> On Thursday, April 20, 2017 at 12:23:46 PM UTC-4, René wrote:
>
>> It's 650b. Can take 42 mm tires without fenders easily, maybe a bit more.
>> With metal fenders, 38 mm tires are best.
>>
>> René
>>
> On Thu, Apr 20, 2017 at 9:21 AM Jonathan D.  wrote:
>>
> I wish I could. What a great deal.
>>>
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Re: [RBW] Re: 3M helicopter tape

[Bill Lindsay]

"full retail" from ULINE has the genuine 3M stuff for $97 for a 1" wide 
roll that is 36 yards long.  Let's say hypothetically you made 108 1ft 
strips.  2" wide and 4" wide rolls are alot more, roughly 2x and 4x the 
price.  

Bill Lindsay
El Cerrito, CA

On Thursday, April 20, 2017 at 8:37:59 AM UTC-7, Tim wrote:
>
> Those are insane prices! I bought a roll of 1" tape a couple of years ago 
> and it was nowhere near $250-300. I remember it being pricey but it was 
> certainly $50 or less. I'm thinking somewhere in the $35 range? I don't 
> remember for sure but even though I'm  not all that frugal i never would 
> have paid over $50. I'm pretty sure I bought it on Amazon.

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Re: [RBW] Re: 3M helicopter tape

[Hugh Smitham]

I ordered the ISC racers tape from Amazon 2"x 12' I figured 12 feet is
plenty for my needs. I paid $26.95 includes tax free shipping.

~Hugh

“Life is like riding a bicycle. To keep your balance, you must keep
moving.” ― Albert Einstein

http://velocipeedemusings.com/



On Thu, Apr 20, 2017 at 9:40 AM, Reed Kennedy  wrote:

> I just received the same message George did. They say they're shipping me
> the helicopter tape I ordered, plus extra, even though they've already
> refunded my payment!
>
> I'll let y'all know when it arrives. It looks like I can also change the
> feedback I left with their approval, so once the tape arrives I'll offer to
> do that and re-pay for it.
>
>
> Reed
>
> On Thu, Apr 20, 2017 at 8:12 AM, George Schick  wrote:
>
>> When I logged into my Gmail account this AM I had a message from the eBay
>> seller of the helicopter tape stating the following:
>>
>> "...My apologies on the delayed shipment, I was out of town on a family
>> emergency. Your package was mailed out today. I included additional 3M
>> tape to your order to help compensate for the delay. Again my apologies for
>> any trouble caused by the late delivery..."
>>
>> Looks like they might've been reading our blog.  Anyway, looks like full
>> speed ahead for the small strips after all.  Order away, Gents (and ladies)!
>>
>>
>> On Wednesday, April 19, 2017 at 2:29:12 PM UTC-5, Reed Kennedy wrote:
>>>
>>> George,
>>>
>>> I just had an identical experience with the same seller, trying to buy
>>> the same item. I eventually made a claim through eBay and my money was
>>> refunded today with no explanation. You can see my negative feedback here:
>>> http://feedback.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewFeedback2
>>> id=holo_haleakala&&_trksid=p2047675.l2560=nc=18223743
>>> 3934=VIP%3Afeedback=FeedbackAsSeller
>>>
>>> Felt terrible leaving it, as they had a perfect record until now. All I
>>> wanted was a quick note saying they'd run out and when to expect it. Or
>>> even just a "sorry"! Sheesh, what a waste of time.
>>>
>>> What's doubly sad, I can't find anywhere else on eBay to buy helicopter
>>> tape in 1" widths without expensive international shipping. ::grumble::
>>>
>>>
>>> Reed
>>>
>>> On Wed, Apr 19, 2017 at 12:16 PM, George Schick 
>>> wrote:
>>>
 Unfortunately, when you deal with people via eBay you never know what
 to expect.  I recently placed an order back on April 8th for a couple of
 feet of 1" tape at the URL posted in the message below, received an e-mail
 saying the order had been placed, received another e-mail saying it had
 shipped w/ an expected delivery date of April 15th and nothing has
 happened.  Meanwhile, I placed another eBay order for a completely
 unrelated product, went through the same e-mail notification cycle, and it
 arrived on time, just as expected.

 When I use the USPS tracking number supplied by the seller it says
 something about a shipping label having been created and awaiting receipt
 of the product.  USPS tracking is notoriously unreliable so I'm suspicious
 of the accuracy of their message, so I tried to contact the seller from his
 eBay main page advertisement, clicking on the "contact" and it takes me to
 an error message.  Therefore, I don't even have a way to get a hold of this
 guy to find out what's going on.  Anyone else run into this kind of problem
 and, if so, what steps did you take?


 On Saturday, April 8, 2017 at 2:48:04 PM UTC-5, Steve Palincsar wrote:
>
> $1.65 per foot plus $2.85 shipping for 1" wide tape at
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/3M-1-HELICOPTER-TAPE-Clear-14MIL-Ext
> ra-Tough-Frame-Protection-8681-1-65-ft/182237433934?_trksid=
> p2047675.c15.m1851&_trkparms=aid%3D222007%26algo%3DSIC.
> MBE%26ao%3D2%26asc%3D40130%26meid%3Dd6fe721da3d94547b8f5f
> e6501b9d006%26pid%3D15%26rk%3D5%26rkt%3D6%26sd%3D400921749096
>
> On 04/08/2017 03:22 PM, John Hawrylak wrote:
>
> Can anyone provide a rough estimate of the cost???
>
> John Hawrylak
> Woodstown NJ
>
> On Friday, April 7, 2017 at 10:24:02 AM UTC-4, George Schick wrote:
>
>> This is good to know - I've been looking for something like this for
>> chain slap protection.  It's gosh awful expensive, though, so it's good 
>> to
>> know that you can buy it in strips, too.  Entering the product name into 
>> a
>> Google search and then pulling up all of the images I see lots of photos 
>> of
>> bikes and bike shops using this, as well, so it's evidently one of those
>> best-kept little secrets.  In the event that it would ever need to be
>> replaced, though, how difficult is it to loosen the adhesive?
>>
>> On Friday, April 7, 2017 at 6:57:08 AM UTC-5, Ron Mc wrote:
>>>
>>> You can buy pieces on ebay, but make sure it's 3M.  I made the
>>> mistake of buying some 

Re: [RBW] Re: (maybe) WTB Brooks B68 - Question regarding brooks saddle for Joe Appaloosa

[Jonathan D.]

I had the same question. It sounds like it is similar to the B68 with the new 
material.  

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Re: [RBW] Re: FS: Betty Foy 58 cm frame/fork/BB/brakes/seatpost - $750 + shipping OBO

[Chris Birkenmaier]

Since we are commenting on this posting, I'd like to say that I appreciate 
sellers like you who provide photos showing a ton of close up and different 
angles to view.  Gives the (potential) buyer the information they need for 
assessing condition.  Kudos!

On Thursday, April 20, 2017 at 12:23:46 PM UTC-4, René wrote:
>
> It's 650b. Can take 42 mm tires without fenders easily, maybe a bit more. 
> With metal fenders, 38 mm tires are best. 
>
> René 
>
> On Thu, Apr 20, 2017 at 9:21 AM Jonathan D.  > wrote:
>
>> I wish I could. What a great deal.
>>
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[RBW] Re: Best way to move bikes cross-country?

[Garth]

There 'ya go Tracy .  . . perfect .   win win win !  


On Wednesday, April 19, 2017 at 10:37:17 PM UTC-4, thalasin wrote:
>
> Thanks to everyone for your responses!  I'm not especially handy in terms 
> of boxing them myself, plus it's getting to be crunch time and I just don't 
> have time to mess around with the learning curve.  I'm going to have them 
> boxed by a mobile bike service so they will be ready to go into the moving 
> van, pod, trailer or whatever moving apparatus presents itself.  I was 
> mostly worried about not having them secured and them clanking around and 
> getting damaged in transit.  Not that they can't be damaged in boxes, but 
> at least I'll know I took pre-emptive measures.
>
> Moving to Michigan which means a fat bike may be joining the fleet.  But I 
> have a glorious summer of lakefront rides ahead of me before the snow flies.
>
> Tracy
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: 3M helicopter tape

[Reed Kennedy]

I just received the same message George did. They say they're shipping me
the helicopter tape I ordered, plus extra, even though they've already
refunded my payment!

I'll let y'all know when it arrives. It looks like I can also change the
feedback I left with their approval, so once the tape arrives I'll offer to
do that and re-pay for it.


Reed

On Thu, Apr 20, 2017 at 8:12 AM, George Schick  wrote:

> When I logged into my Gmail account this AM I had a message from the eBay
> seller of the helicopter tape stating the following:
>
> "...My apologies on the delayed shipment, I was out of town on a family
> emergency. Your package was mailed out today. I included additional 3M
> tape to your order to help compensate for the delay. Again my apologies for
> any trouble caused by the late delivery..."
>
> Looks like they might've been reading our blog.  Anyway, looks like full
> speed ahead for the small strips after all.  Order away, Gents (and ladies)!
>
>
> On Wednesday, April 19, 2017 at 2:29:12 PM UTC-5, Reed Kennedy wrote:
>>
>> George,
>>
>> I just had an identical experience with the same seller, trying to buy
>> the same item. I eventually made a claim through eBay and my money was
>> refunded today with no explanation. You can see my negative feedback here:
>> http://feedback.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewFeedback2
>> id=holo_haleakala&&_trksid=p2047675.l2560=nc=
>> 182237433934=VIP%3Afeedback=FeedbackAsSeller
>>
>> Felt terrible leaving it, as they had a perfect record until now. All I
>> wanted was a quick note saying they'd run out and when to expect it. Or
>> even just a "sorry"! Sheesh, what a waste of time.
>>
>> What's doubly sad, I can't find anywhere else on eBay to buy helicopter
>> tape in 1" widths without expensive international shipping. ::grumble::
>>
>>
>> Reed
>>
>> On Wed, Apr 19, 2017 at 12:16 PM, George Schick  wrote:
>>
>>> Unfortunately, when you deal with people via eBay you never know what to
>>> expect.  I recently placed an order back on April 8th for a couple of feet
>>> of 1" tape at the URL posted in the message below, received an e-mail
>>> saying the order had been placed, received another e-mail saying it had
>>> shipped w/ an expected delivery date of April 15th and nothing has
>>> happened.  Meanwhile, I placed another eBay order for a completely
>>> unrelated product, went through the same e-mail notification cycle, and it
>>> arrived on time, just as expected.
>>>
>>> When I use the USPS tracking number supplied by the seller it says
>>> something about a shipping label having been created and awaiting receipt
>>> of the product.  USPS tracking is notoriously unreliable so I'm suspicious
>>> of the accuracy of their message, so I tried to contact the seller from his
>>> eBay main page advertisement, clicking on the "contact" and it takes me to
>>> an error message.  Therefore, I don't even have a way to get a hold of this
>>> guy to find out what's going on.  Anyone else run into this kind of problem
>>> and, if so, what steps did you take?
>>>
>>>
>>> On Saturday, April 8, 2017 at 2:48:04 PM UTC-5, Steve Palincsar wrote:

 $1.65 per foot plus $2.85 shipping for 1" wide tape at
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/3M-1-HELICOPTER-TAPE-Clear-14MIL-Ext
 ra-Tough-Frame-Protection-8681-1-65-ft/182237433934?_trksid=
 p2047675.c15.m1851&_trkparms=aid%3D222007%26algo%3
 DSIC.MBE%26ao%3D2%26asc%3D40130%26meid%3Dd6fe721da3d94547b8f
 5fe6501b9d006%26pid%3D15%26rk%3D5%26rkt%3D6%26sd%3D400921749096

 On 04/08/2017 03:22 PM, John Hawrylak wrote:

 Can anyone provide a rough estimate of the cost???

 John Hawrylak
 Woodstown NJ

 On Friday, April 7, 2017 at 10:24:02 AM UTC-4, George Schick wrote:

> This is good to know - I've been looking for something like this for
> chain slap protection.  It's gosh awful expensive, though, so it's good to
> know that you can buy it in strips, too.  Entering the product name into a
> Google search and then pulling up all of the images I see lots of photos 
> of
> bikes and bike shops using this, as well, so it's evidently one of those
> best-kept little secrets.  In the event that it would ever need to be
> replaced, though, how difficult is it to loosen the adhesive?
>
> On Friday, April 7, 2017 at 6:57:08 AM UTC-5, Ron Mc wrote:
>>
>> You can buy pieces on ebay, but make sure it's 3M.  I made the
>> mistake of buying some that was just clear vinyl with no adhesive.
>>
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Re: [RBW] Re: (maybe) WTB Brooks B68 - Question regarding brooks saddle for Joe Appaloosa

[Bob Lovejoy]

Has anyone tried/ridden a Brooks C19 (Cambium)?  Just curious...  It is the 
wider version of the C17.

Thanks,

Bob

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Re: [RBW] Re: (maybe) WTB Brooks B68 - Question regarding brooks saddle for Joe Appaloosa

[René Sterental]

I'm using the B67 Select on My Cheviot, Now with Choco bars to try them (I
like them) and really enjoy the saddle. I think I have a brand new B68 in
honey somewhere in storage, but need to find it. It'll be a few weeks since
our floors are being redone due to a leak and everything is a mess now.

René

On Thu, Apr 20, 2017 at 7:55 AM Davey Two Shoes 
wrote:

> I quite liked the spring in the b67 when I rode one on a touring bike with
> albatross bars. You don't lose any power in your stroke due to springs and
> they don't bounce around during your pedal stroke either, rather they move
> with you in a way that isn't interfering. Really, they do their job when
> they're supposed to and you don't notice them otherwise. I'll be buying a
> flyer for my clem smith when it arrives. I think springs are great for a
> bike that may see some hairy off-roading.
>
>
> On Wednesday, April 19, 2017 at 10:15:03 PM UTC-4, Jonathan D. wrote:
>>
>> I am loving my new Joe Appaloosa.  I think I officially bought the final
>> 55 Silver from Rivelo on Saturday.  I realize my current B17 Saddle isn't a
>> great fit for the more upright position.  I am considering the B67 but
>> really don't need the springs. The B68 seems like it would be a great
>> choice but it is discontinued.  Any advice or thoughts on saddles? Do the
>> springs do much in regards to ride feel or weight? Is there a good
>> alternative to the B68? I might be interested in purchasing a used B68 or
>> I'll stick with a B67.
>>
>> I'll have to do a right report soon.  So far i am loving the ride. Thanks
>> in advance for all of your advice.
>>
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[RBW] Re: (maybe) WTB Brooks B68 - Question regarding brooks saddle for Joe Appaloosa

[Jonathan D.]

It is always amazing me to me how personal a saddle decision is. I have two 
B17s on more aggressive bikes. They felt great on day one. I can tell the feel 
is different on the Joe. It doesn't feel bad but not the same. I suspect a 
wider saddle would fit better. I might just try the B67 it is a really heavy 
seat but that probably doesn't make any difference if I  already weigh
'215. 

On Thursday, April 20, 2017 at 7:55:45 AM UTC-7, Davey Two Shoes wrote:
> I quite liked the spring in the b67 when I rode one on a touring bike with 
> albatross bars. You don't lose any power in your stroke due to springs and 
> they don't bounce around during your pedal stroke either, rather they move 
> with you in a way that isn't interfering. Really, they do their job when 
> they're supposed to and you don't notice them otherwise. I'll be buying a 
> flyer for my clem smith when it arrives. I think springs are great for a bike 
> that may see some hairy off-roading.
> 
> On Wednesday, April 19, 2017 at 10:15:03 PM UTC-4, Jonathan D. wrote:
> I am loving my new Joe Appaloosa.  I think I officially bought the final 55 
> Silver from Rivelo on Saturday.  I realize my current B17 Saddle isn't a 
> great fit for the more upright position.  I am considering the B67 but really 
> don't need the springs. The B68 seems like it would be a great choice but it 
> is discontinued.  Any advice or thoughts on saddles? Do the springs do much 
> in regards to ride feel or weight? Is there a good alternative to the B68? I 
> might be interested in purchasing a used B68 or I'll stick with a B67.  
> 
> 
> I'll have to do a right report soon.  So far i am loving the ride. Thanks in 
> advance for all of your advice.

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Re: [RBW] Re: FS: Betty Foy 58 cm frame/fork/BB/brakes/seatpost - $750 + shipping OBO

[René Sterental]

It's 650b. Can take 42 mm tires without fenders easily, maybe a bit more.
With metal fenders, 38 mm tires are best.

René

On Thu, Apr 20, 2017 at 9:21 AM Jonathan D.  wrote:

> I wish I could. What a great deal.
>
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Re: [RBW] Re: FS: Betty Foy 58 cm frame/fork/BB/brakes/seatpost - $750 + shipping OBO

[Jonathan D.]

I wish I could. What a great deal. 

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Re: [RBW] Re: FS: Betty Foy 58 cm frame/fork/BB/brakes/seatpost - $750 + shipping OBO

[masmojo]

Timing isn't right for me otherwise . . .

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Re: [RBW] Re: 3M helicopter tape

['Tim' via RBW Owners Bunch]

Those are insane prices! I bought a roll of 1" tape a couple of years ago and 
it was nowhere near $250-300. I remember it being pricey but it was certainly 
$50 or less. I'm thinking somewhere in the $35 range? I don't remember for sure 
but even though I'm  not all that frugal i never would have paid over $50. I'm 
pretty sure I bought it on Amazon.

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[RBW] Re: FS: Apple Green Brooks B17

[Tailwinds14]

And it is. Sorry, couldn't remember which other list I had posted it to.
Cheers 
Beth 

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Re: [RBW] Re: 3M helicopter tape

[George Schick]

When I logged into my Gmail account this AM I had a message from the eBay 
seller of the helicopter tape stating the following:

"...My apologies on the delayed shipment, I was out of town on a family 
emergency. Your package was mailed out today. I included additional 3M tape 
to your order to help compensate for the delay. Again my apologies for any 
trouble caused by the late delivery..."

Looks like they might've been reading our blog.  Anyway, looks like full 
speed ahead for the small strips after all.  Order away, Gents (and ladies)!


On Wednesday, April 19, 2017 at 2:29:12 PM UTC-5, Reed Kennedy wrote:
>
> George, 
>
> I just had an identical experience with the same seller, trying to buy the 
> same item. I eventually made a claim through eBay and my money was refunded 
> today with no explanation. You can see my negative feedback here:
>
> http://feedback.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewFeedback2=holo_haleakala&&_trksid=p2047675.l2560=nc=182237433934=VIP%3Afeedback=FeedbackAsSeller
>
> Felt terrible leaving it, as they had a perfect record until now. All I 
> wanted was a quick note saying they'd run out and when to expect it. Or 
> even just a "sorry"! Sheesh, what a waste of time.
>
> What's doubly sad, I can't find anywhere else on eBay to buy helicopter 
> tape in 1" widths without expensive international shipping. ::grumble::
>
>
> Reed
>
> On Wed, Apr 19, 2017 at 12:16 PM, George Schick  > wrote:
>
>> Unfortunately, when you deal with people via eBay you never know what to 
>> expect.  I recently placed an order back on April 8th for a couple of feet 
>> of 1" tape at the URL posted in the message below, received an e-mail 
>> saying the order had been placed, received another e-mail saying it had 
>> shipped w/ an expected delivery date of April 15th and nothing has 
>> happened.  Meanwhile, I placed another eBay order for a completely 
>> unrelated product, went through the same e-mail notification cycle, and it 
>> arrived on time, just as expected.
>>
>> When I use the USPS tracking number supplied by the seller it says 
>> something about a shipping label having been created and awaiting receipt 
>> of the product.  USPS tracking is notoriously unreliable so I'm suspicious 
>> of the accuracy of their message, so I tried to contact the seller from his 
>> eBay main page advertisement, clicking on the "contact" and it takes me to 
>> an error message.  Therefore, I don't even have a way to get a hold of this 
>> guy to find out what's going on.  Anyone else run into this kind of problem 
>> and, if so, what steps did you take?
>>
>>
>> On Saturday, April 8, 2017 at 2:48:04 PM UTC-5, Steve Palincsar wrote:
>>>
>>> $1.65 per foot plus $2.85 shipping for 1" wide tape at 
>>> http://www.ebay.com/itm/3M-1-HELICOPTER-TAPE-Clear-14MIL-Extra-Tough-Frame-Protection-8681-1-65-ft/182237433934?_trksid=p2047675.c15.m1851&_trkparms=aid%3D222007%26algo%3DSIC.MBE%26ao%3D2%26asc%3D40130%26meid%3Dd6fe721da3d94547b8f5fe6501b9d006%26pid%3D15%26rk%3D5%26rkt%3D6%26sd%3D400921749096
>>>
>>> On 04/08/2017 03:22 PM, John Hawrylak wrote:
>>>
>>> Can anyone provide a rough estimate of the cost???
>>>
>>> John Hawrylak
>>> Woodstown NJ
>>>
>>> On Friday, April 7, 2017 at 10:24:02 AM UTC-4, George Schick wrote:
>>>
 This is good to know - I've been looking for something like this for 
 chain slap protection.  It's gosh awful expensive, though, so it's good to 
 know that you can buy it in strips, too.  Entering the product name into a 
 Google search and then pulling up all of the images I see lots of photos 
 of 
 bikes and bike shops using this, as well, so it's evidently one of those 
 best-kept little secrets.  In the event that it would ever need to be 
 replaced, though, how difficult is it to loosen the adhesive? 

 On Friday, April 7, 2017 at 6:57:08 AM UTC-5, Ron Mc wrote: 
>
> You can buy pieces on ebay, but make sure it's 3M.  I made the mistake 
> of buying some that was just clear vinyl with no adhesive.  
>
 -- 
>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google 
>>> Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send 
>>> an email to rbw-owners-bun...@googlegroups.com.
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>>>
>>>
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>>
>
>

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[RBW] Re: (maybe) WTB Brooks B68 - Question regarding brooks saddle for Joe Appaloosa

[Davey Two Shoes]

I quite liked the spring in the b67 when I rode one on a touring bike with 
albatross bars. You don't lose any power in your stroke due to springs and 
they don't bounce around during your pedal stroke either, rather they move 
with you in a way that isn't interfering. Really, they do their job when 
they're supposed to and you don't notice them otherwise. I'll be buying a 
flyer for my clem smith when it arrives. I think springs are great for a 
bike that may see some hairy off-roading.

On Wednesday, April 19, 2017 at 10:15:03 PM UTC-4, Jonathan D. wrote:
>
> I am loving my new Joe Appaloosa.  I think I officially bought the final 
> 55 Silver from Rivelo on Saturday.  I realize my current B17 Saddle isn't a 
> great fit for the more upright position.  I am considering the B67 but 
> really don't need the springs. The B68 seems like it would be a great 
> choice but it is discontinued.  Any advice or thoughts on saddles? Do the 
> springs do much in regards to ride feel or weight? Is there a good 
> alternative to the B68? I might be interested in purchasing a used B68 or 
> I'll stick with a B67.  
>
> I'll have to do a right report soon.  So far i am loving the ride. Thanks 
> in advance for all of your advice.
>

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Re: [RBW] (maybe) WTB Brooks B68 - Question regarding brooks saddle for Joe Appaloosa

[Chris Birkenmaier]

I really only do upright or fairly upright riding anymore.  No dropped bars 
left on my bikes.  Both the B17 and the B68/B67 work for me for this type 
of riding.  I find each saddle to be unique in feel.  Some are great off 
the bat and others take time to get there and a few just don't cut it.  
Overall though I'm a great fan of Brookes.

On Thursday, April 20, 2017 at 1:20:31 AM UTC-4, Joe Bernard wrote:
>
> One of you probably has my B68. The "wooden church pew" effect Leah 
> mentioned didn't work for me at all. It's very wide, with an almost 
> vertical face that drops down behind your thighs, and for me created a 
> similar effect to legs rubbing against a packed Carradice saddlebag. I kept 
> sliding forward to get away from the wooden bench behind me, and was not a 
> happy rider. Me no likey!

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Re: [RBW] Re: FS: Betty Foy 58 cm frame/fork/BB/brakes/seatpost - $750 + shipping OBO

[Ryan Fleming]

that is a very nice deal for somebody...lucky buyer

On Wednesday, April 19, 2017 at 11:00:29 PM UTC-5, René wrote:
>
> Who is going to let temptation win? ;-)
>
> On Wed, Apr 19, 2017 at 8:59 PM René Sterental  > wrote:
>
>> Bill, my plan is based on Dave's response to my inquiry that the ship is 
>> supposed to dock tomorrow and it'll take a few days for them to get the 
>> frames. He agreed that barring unforeseen events, I should be able to come 
>> pick up my frame and parts next Saturday. I'm building it myself. 
>>
>> René 
>>
>> On Wed, Apr 19, 2017 at 6:46 PM drew  
>> wrote:
>>
>>> !!!
>>>
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>>

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Re: [RBW] Re: 3M helicopter tape

[John Stowe]

I have the ISC version linked by Hugh. Works well for me for frame protection 
and dynamo wire routing.

-John 

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[RBW] Re: Phil BB advice/experience needed

[Bob Lovejoy]

Hi Jon,

We think the same on this, so the BB is winging its way to Phil Wood and 
company even now.  I read some things, even talked with PW support, about a 
DIY offset change but I thought better of that, at least with the tools I 
have.  I bought the BB on eBay so better it have a good check-up and the 
work done well and correctly.  One of the reasons for using PW parts is 
doing it right, then ride without worry, so that is the plan.

Thanks for the good advice!

Bob

On Wednesday, April 19, 2017 at 11:58:28 PM UTC-5, Jon Spangler wrote:
>
> Bob,
>
> I have been using Phil Wood BBs since 1975, when I was 23. I am now 65 and 
> have sent several to Phil Wood to have spindle lengths changed out. 
> (I am fairly certain the retail cost for this is higher than Patrick 
> quoted but it includes new bearings.) 
>
> I have yet to wear out a Phil Wood hub or BB and have yet to be 
> disappointed in any Phil Wood gear I have purchased:
> they will last longer than I will!
>
> I would recommend sending your 130mm symmetrical BB back to Phil and 
> having them install the offset 127.5 or 130, 
> with preference going towards whatever Phil recommends.
>
> Jon Spangler
> Alameda, CA USA
>
>

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Re: [RBW] Phil BB advice/experience needed

[Garth]

Here is a pic of an 83 Stumpy like the one I had 
http://bikes.aberrance.com/stumpjumper/20080525CleanedUp/images/20080525Stumpy-020.jpg
As you can see it is very unique, I have not seen anyone configure the stays 
like this again. What it self evident in the pic is the straight part is just 
where the rings needed to be, then it bowed out. There is no chance of any 
chain suck on these, and it was not until I got a Bombadil did I even know what 
it was. 

I have not seen any of the long stay Riv frames in person, but I too have 
wondered if they do not lend themselves to being straighter near the bb shell, 
lending to being able to use cranksets maybe the other frames could not, like 
the AT. 

If you really think the 127mm with or w/wo spacers will work for you I have a 
barely used UN72 127 that I used with my Stumpy that I could send you. I have 
had it laying around since I sold it and well, it is just sitting there waiting 
for some good use. No charge either.  Btw, I use spacers with cartridges all 
the time, I have either a 1mm or 1.5mm on my Bombadil right now.  

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