Re: [RBW] Problems with Nitto stems and bars?

[CB]

Aside from BBDD's stem issue, a number have noted that the sleeved bars 
sometimes creak. I would expect that the sleeve is inflexible when clamped 
properly in the stem. The bars flex quite a bit, and the flexing may deform the 
inner bar a tiny bit at the ends of the sleeve and cause the creak.

A similar effect might be expected between the stem clamp and bars for 
non-sleeved bars, but in that case tightening the clamp would reduce the 
deformation.
-- 
Carl

On June 23, 2020 6:04:56 PM PDT, Joe Bernard  wrote:
>The stem worked fine on her steel bar, I don't know if it has that burr
>mark on it and I think it's long gone now. I don't imagine even my
>slightly obsessive bike detective skills are going to ever solve how
>the dang thing got in there, but I'd sure like to grab a piece of
>sandpaper and knock it down! 
>
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[RBW] FS: Garage Sale, parting out a bike

[Collin A]

Hey All,

Cross post here, but see here for photos and the list:
https://photos.app.goo.gl/JhptPuTzJ9GZvYyg8

If you buy multiple bits, we can haggle on shipping prices.

*Double Top and Down Tube Steel 650b Bike*: *$300 + Shipping*

Technically 700c, but converted to fit 650x40 with dimpled chainstays

Brake reach with 650b is about 64mm, 700c about 47mm

52 cm TT, 51 cm ST, 43 cm CS

Reynolds 525 steel

Downtube bottle bosses, and king cage USB mounts for ST bottle cage

Lugged construction with clear powder coat showcasing the lugs. Some chips 
in the powder coat (see photos)

Colnago 1980s master fork, with some paint wear, very supple fork. 360-ish 
ATC and 55-ish Rake (hard to accurately measure)

FSA duron 1” threaded headset installed

Seatpost binder bolt included and will take a 27.2 seatpost

Standard 68mm BSA threaded BB

*Advent 9 speed drivetrain*: *$110 shipped*

11-42 9 speed cassette, brand new

1x clutch rear derailleur, used

Both the thumbie (new) and trigger shifter with bearings (used)

*Sugino RD2 165mm crankset:** $90 shipped*

130 BCD with pewter Wolftooth chainring bolts

Wolftooth 38t narrow-wide chainring, brand new

Extra 48 and 39 tooth rings that were used for a 2x1 setup

*Redshift Shocktop Suspension Seatpost**: **$100 + Shipping*

Used, about 300 miles across a couple bikes

27.2 diam, 350mm length

Will include the additional stiffer spring

Added some silver accents

Some wear of the anodizing on 

*Crust Shakka Bar, 26.0 Clamp**: **$120 + Shipping*

Used for about 100 miles

51cm hood width, 54cm drop width, 10 deg flare

Modern compact drop shape, and pretty light

Cheers,
Collin in Sac

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[RBW] Re: Problems with Nitto stems and bars?

[Paul Brodek]

I've used these stems for a couple forevers, and never felt the "need" to 
use a wrench with the nut, but I always do. The "shelf," or maybe "ledge" 
is better?, isn't particularly deep, so I think using a wrench makes for 
more secure tightening. I'm also pretty retentive when it comes to this 
stuff, and if you don't use a wrench, when you torque down there's enough 
wiggle room for the nut to rotate maybe 5~10deg, so the nut flat isn't 
parallel to the ledge. My wrench fixes that.

Never seen a need for an extra washer, lubed threads and proper torque 
locks it down solid. I have at times under-torqued it in the stand, 
figuring I'd tighten it fully after making sure the bar angle was correct. 
If it's a 2am job, once in a while the final tightening doesn't get done in 
the stand. I usually figure that out as soon as it leaves the stand, though.

Paul Brodek
Hillsdale, NJ USA  

On Wednesday, June 17, 2020 at 2:00:32 PM UTC-4, Joe Bernard wrote:
>
> "Why are so many opposed to using a simple wrench on a nut as Nitto 
> intended for this model stem?"
>
> I don't think it's "opposed" so much as the other Nitto stems - like most 
> one-bolt stems - don't work that way. I've had a bunch of both models and 
> don't think I've ever used a wrench on that nut, it wouldn't have occurred 
> to me. 
>

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[RBW] FS: VO Grand Cru Dual Pivot Calipers; Minehaha & Cardiff Saddle Bags

[Paul Brodek]

VO Grand Cru Calipers/Silver/Recessed: $120 shipped conti USA; paypal G
Minehaha Saddle Bag: $45 shipped " "
Cardiff Whitson Saddle Bag/NOS/NIB: $35 " "
Cardiff Whitson Saddle Bag: $30 " "

Moving some more stuff to keep the little happy to see boxes going out the 
door

Grand Cru calipers are pretty darn clean, could use a little more 
detailing. Shoes still have lotsa miles left. Rear caliper spring has some 
very light peppering. I always sell these when I find I have a stray pair I 
forgot about, and then within a few weeks I need another pair. I've given 
up fighting it.

Minehaha bag was installed once, don't think it ever left the garage. Clean 
all-around, minor wrinkling on straps. These are still available new.

Cardiff Whitson bags are lighter weight, less expensive banana bags. One is 
new, still in the package. The other was installed, but never hit the road. 
Pretty sure these were discontinued, not likely available new any more.

Few pix attached, bigger/more pix here:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/26383479@N04/albums/72157648060578763

Paul Brodek

[image: 50038707737_884b3e0a9b_c.jpg]

[image: 50038708102_cae80081e8_c.jpg]

[image: 50037899368_b728341872_c.jpg]
Hillsdale, NJ USA

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[RBW] Re: Grand Bois Cypres 700 x 30 substitutes?

[Brewster Fong]

I just picked up a pair of Schwalbe One V-Guard clincher tires to try on my 
Trek Madone. Interestingly, for a "racing style" bike, it has plenty of 
clearance!

At only $26 each, these seem like a decent deal:


https://www.backcountry.com/schwalbe-one-tire-clincher?s=a

Good Luck!

On Monday, June 22, 2020 at 4:37:28 PM UTC-7, Nick Payne wrote:
>
> Schwalbe have the G-One Speed 700x30. I've been running these tubeless for 
> a couple of years.
>
> Nick
>

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Re: [RBW] Travel bikes

[Drw]

Jay,
Are you thinking NWT or diamond llama?

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Re: [RBW] Problems with Nitto stems and bars?

[Leah Peterson]

Hear no evil, see no evil. I don’t ever want to look under there again!

Sent from my iPad

> On Jun 23, 2020, at 6:05 PM, Joe Bernard  wrote:
> 
> The stem worked fine on her steel bar, I don't know if it has that burr mark 
> on it and I think it's long gone now. I don't imagine even my slightly 
> obsessive bike detective skills are going to ever solve how the dang thing 
> got in there, but I'd sure like to grab a piece of sandpaper and knock it 
> down! 
> 
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Re: [RBW] Problems with Nitto stems and bars?

[Joe Bernard]

The stem worked fine on her steel bar, I don't know if it has that burr mark on 
it and I think it's long gone now. I don't imagine even my slightly obsessive 
bike detective skills are going to ever solve how the dang thing got in there, 
but I'd sure like to grab a piece of sandpaper and knock it down! 

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[RBW] Re: Grand Bois Cypres 700 x 30 substitutes?

[Paul Brodek]

You can order from Scott in Mpls, as already mentioned, or buy from him on 
ebay. He's always got listings for tires there, makes it handy to see what 
he may have in stock.

Ordering direct from Grand Bois has been mostly smooth for me. Recent 
covid-related shipping issues have cropped up, they switched from EMS to 
DHL when delays kicked in, not sure what they're doing now, but Japan seems 
to be getting back to a quasi-normal.

Nobody's mentioned the Soma Supple Vitesse tires, which are another 
high-zoot Panaracer OE product for a US-based brand/company. I use 'em a 
lot, like 'em a lot. They have std and extralight versions, and are 
generally less expensive than Rene Herse. You can buy direct, might help to 
wait for one of their occasional/seasonal sales if you're not in a rush. 
ModernBike seems to have the lowest everyday price on them.

The Challenge tires are also very nice. Just be aware they are "open 
tubular" design, not vulcanized, so they lay flat against the rim out of 
the package, with no natural upward curve whatsoever. I don't use tubeless 
tires, so I can't compare mounting a Challenge open tubular to those, but I 
can say that Challenge open tubulars are the most difficult tires to mount 
of any tires I've used over the past 10yrs+. I'm cranky and stubborn, and 
only when death is the only other alternative (yes, I'm exaggerating) will 
I use tire irons to mount a tire, but I've come close with Challenge. I 
recently got some fat, puffy Strada Bianca Pros, and they look just 
beautiful, but every time I look at them I can almost feel palm and thumb 
pain again. Once they've gone on, and had some time inflated, subsequent 
mounting isn't inordinately difficult, but the first time is a real bear. I 
recently got a Kool Stop Tire Bead Jack to spare my palms and thumbs next 
time around. 

[image: 49837732981_ce1b8c5de4_c.jpg]
I'll also say that tire mounting experience is akin to flatting experience, 
in that it is a certainty that someone else thinks mounting Challenge tires 
is easey-peasey, they never have a problem. ("Tire X is a flat magnet!" "I 
ride mine thousands of miles and never get a flat." Like that...) One man's 
death fit is another's no sweat. But Challenge does see the need to have a 
video on their website showing their preferred mounting technique. And boy 
howdy the dude in the video doesn't seem to struggle like I do. I've bought 
more than one pair near-new from somebody on a forum who gave up trying to 
install them. So it ain't just me.

But they are dead sexy.

Paul Brodek
Hillsdale, NJ USA

On Sunday, June 21, 2020 at 11:07:49 AM UTC-4, Tom Goodmann wrote:
>
> I've long enjoyed the suppleness of these tires, but they seem not to have 
> been available in the U.S. now for some years; I think they can still be 
> obtained outside the U.S..  Any recommendations for near-equivalents?  
> (Labeled as 700 x 30, but seem to measure out closer to 32).  Thanks in 
> advance for any recommendations.  Tom, Miami  
>
> Sam Hillborne
> Legolas
> Goodrich-built 650b prototype
> '94 RBT
>

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Re: [RBW] Problems with Nitto stems and bars?

['John Hawrylak' via RBW Owners Bunch]

Joe

I think you are correct about something inside the stem clamp causing the 
gouging and resulting in the looseness.   The inside of the stem clamp 
looks 'terrible" for a machined surface.  The "gouged" Al bar worked in the 
normal Technomic stem, so the markings on the bar sleeve and clamp area do 
not appear to be the cause, just a result of something inside the stem 
clamp..

The question would be what produced the 'burr' or 'burrs' inside the stem 
clamp.  Did Nitto manufacture it with burrs??  Did some foreign material 
get inside the clamp after manufacturing at Nitto??  Did something 
happening during shipping or handling??  Did Leah do something??  Was 
something on the bar when it was inserted through the clamp???

I would use fine grit sandpaper or emery cloth to smooth out the iniside of 
the stem clamp, reduce any ridges from the gouging.   Not much can be done 
for the low spot of the gouge.

John Hawrylak
Woodstown NJ





On Tuesday, June 23, 2020 at 2:55:19 PM UTC-4, Joe Bernard wrote:
>
> I'm still in the "it's the stem" camp. Reasons: 1. When she loosened it 
> and moved the bars up and down the noise was worse. 2. When she slid the 
> bars out there was a good bit of gouging on the sleeve like it was dragging 
> on something in there. 3. I saw a pic inside the stem and think I could see 
> the burr causing that drag. Conclusion: Boscos put a massive amount of 
> leverage on that narrow little clamp and I think the interface in there was 
> wonky enough to cause a tick/creak. 

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Re: [RBW] Problems with Nitto stems and bars?

['John Hawrylak' via RBW Owners Bunch]

Joe

Good catch on the burr.  Are you saying the burr interfered with the 
initial tightening of the stem clamp, resulting in less than adequate 
tightening force, allowing slippage and gouging?   

Leah, can you confirm if a burr in the stem was/is present and if the bar 
sleeve is gouged?

John Hawrylak
Woodstown NJ

On Tuesday, June 23, 2020 at 2:55:19 PM UTC-4, Joe Bernard wrote:
>
> I'm still in the "it's the stem" camp. Reasons: 1. When she loosened it 
> and moved the bars up and down the noise was worse. 2. When she slid the 
> bars out there was a good bit of gouging on the sleeve like it was dragging 
> on something in there. 3. I saw a pic inside the stem and think I could see 
> the burr causing that drag. Conclusion: Boscos put a massive amount of 
> leverage on that narrow little clamp and I think the interface in there was 
> wonky enough to cause a tick/creak. 

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Re: [RBW] Problems with Nitto stems and bars?

['John Hawrylak' via RBW Owners Bunch]

Jeremy

I agree with your explanation of the 'creaking' of sleeved bars.  Measuring 
a B177 & B132 & a 1988 Sakae Road Champion, the sleeve is about 1.0mm, 
probably slightly thicker to provide a sleeve ID < Bar OD for an 
interference fit to the bar.  I imagine the sleeve is heated and then 
placed on the bar, and the bar is then bent.

I agree there is no reason to doubt the integrity of the sleeve/bar and 
would not avoid using a sleeved bar.

John Hawrylak
Woodstown NJ 

On Tuesday, June 23, 2020 at 11:38:04 AM UTC-4, Jeremy Till wrote:
>
> I think the mechanical explanation with the sleeve would be that the joint 
> between the sleeve and bar is not uniform for the length of the sleeve and 
> thus there is some portion where it is not tight, so the sleeve and bar can 
> move ever so slightly in relation to one another under stress, producing a 
> creaking sound. To be honest I'm not familiar with the manufacturing 
> methods, whether the sleeve is crimped into place or bonded or both. But it 
> seems reasonable that either way there was some small area, probably near 
> the ends of the sleeve, where small movements might be possible. That would 
> explain why people have been successful in addressing the creak by either 
> dripping lubricant or adhesive (loctite or similar) into the sleeve/bar 
> joint. That it was able to penetrate at all suggests there might looser 
> areas and that lubricating the two surfaces or adhering them to reduce 
> movement suggests that small displacements in these areas would be the 
> cause of the noise.  
>
> Again, I still trust the quality of Nitto products and the small amount of 
> creaking I've experienced doesn't make me fear that my bar or stem is going 
> to fail.  
>
> -Jeremy Till
> Sacramento, CA
>
> On Saturday, June 20, 2020 at 7:18:29 PM UTC-7, John Hawrylak wrote:
>>
>> Leah
>>
>> When you install the bolt & triangular nut, can you post a picture of the 
>> "shelf" without any bolt or nut present??   If the shelf shows no signs of 
>> missing metal where the hex bolt contacted it, then the hole for the bolt 
>> was drilled lower than it should have been drilled.   This is a possible 
>> source of the less than adequate tightening of the stem clamp
>>
>> I still do not see a mechanistic explanation of why the sleeve on the bar 
>> is a source of the ticking noise.I have used a B177 (Noddle) and a B132 
>> (radonnuer) in 225mm quill technomics without any sounds.
>>
>> Without an explanation, other than it happened to others, I would be 
>> weary of ruling out use of sleeved bars.
>>
>> John Hawrylak
>> Woodstown NJ. 
>>
>>
>> On Saturday, June 20, 2020 at 7:03:04 PM UTC-4, Bicycle Belle Ding Ding! 
>> wrote:
>>>
>>> Yes, Jeremy, I think I’m doing 52 steel Boscos on the Platypus. I don’t 
>>> want bars with sleeves anymore. 
>>>
>>> For anyone who needs to know: If you want to rid the Technomic stem of 
>>> the hex nut and replace it with the triangular nut from Riv, make sure you 
>>> also order the bolt. Neither Mark nor I thought I’d need the bolt, but you 
>>> do, because the threads are different from one another. Get both bolt and 
>>> stem. I just placed my order for the bolt, so hopefully it comes in a few 
>>> days and this is the end of the matter! 
>>>
>>> Leah 
>>>
>>> Sent from my iPad 
>>>
>>> > On Jun 20, 2020, at 1:05 PM, Jeremy Till  wrote: 
>>> > 
>>> > I can't say that I've read every post in the thread but just to echo 
>>> something Benz said: in my experience creaking is endemic with all of the 
>>> various sleeved Nitto bars, so if the bar in question is of the sleeved 
>>> variety that's probably the culprit in my mind. If I remember correctly the 
>>> sleeved aluminum Boscos that I rode from 2014-2016 creaked, and those were 
>>> clamped in a 4 bolt removable faceplate threadless stem of the appropriate 
>>> size, so one of the most solid bar/stem connections out there. The M151 
>>> drop bars i currently have on my Rambouillet with a Technomic Deluxe creak 
>>> when I pedal out of the saddle. I've always just lived with it because it 
>>> didn't really bother me and didn't seem to get worse or otherwise make me 
>>> feel like something was about to fail. YMMV, of course, but if avoiding the 
>>> creak was a priority and the other solutions suggested didn't work, I'd 
>>> consider going back to the steel Boscos (which I assume weren't sleeved) or 
>>> other non sleeved bars. 
>>> > 
>>> > -Jeremy Till 
>>> > Sacramento, CA 
>>> > 
>>> > -- 
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>>>
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>>> rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com. 
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>>> 

Re: [RBW] Travel bikes

[Eric Daume]

With the Bike Fridays now, they have two folding options: the regular
option has the main hinge rear of the bottom bracket, so the crank is fixed
to the main frame. The forward hinge (I think that's the name) puts the
hinge forward of the bottom bracket, so the whole drivetrain folds as a
unit. This should really reduce the instances where the chain drops off the
front ring while folding (which is almost always on my rear hinged Crusoe),
at the expense of a slightly bigger packed size.

If you're getting Rohloff compatibility, it might default to forward hinge,
but I would want to get this regardless.

What's strange is I don't see where this is on the website, but their site
isn't the best.

You can also choose a removable seat mast assembly, or one that folds
forward. Mine is removable, along with the stem, so it's pretty much a
collection of loose parts when I fold it. I would recommend the folding
seat mast.

They also have a light frame option on the NWT, for riders up to 190
pounds. I think this would end up very similar to my Crusoe, which is
indeed a very lively bike.

Eric


On Tue, Jun 23, 2020 at 2:52 PM Jay Lonner  wrote:

> Well I’ve traded a few emails with a rep from BF and he is in the process
> of generating a quote. Here’s what I told him:
>
> - Dropouts, brazeons, cable guides etc. for disc brakes, linear pull
> brakes, derailleurs, and Rohloff rear hubs. Maximum Frankenbike flexibility
> basically, to allow for experimentation.
>
> - Cliffhanger rims and the fattest tires that can handle fenders. Big
> Apples 406x60 would be ideal. SON28 front hubs and LX or XT rear hubs. 36
> spokes front and rear.
>
> - 110/74 triple cranks, Sugino or Silver, 170mm. 9 speed cassette. Short
> cage rear derailleur if possible, for ground clearance. A range of 15-90
> gear inches.
>
> - Paul Klamper brakes, Paul levers, Silver2 shifters. Jones loop h-bars.
> (I’m still torn on the brakes - I’m biased in favor of rim brakes but he’s
> making a good case for discs, and I guess I am curious to try them out.)
>
> - Chris King headsets, UN72 bottom brackets.
>
> - Rear racks equipped, front decaleur compatible.
>
> - Electric assist for my wife.
>
> So that’s my first stab at a potential build, but I’d welcome feedback
> from the list. Any glaring problems or missed opportunities that I should
> be thinking about? I’ve never ordered a custom bike before - it’s kind of
> fun to consider the possibilities...
>
> Jay Lonner
> Bellingham, WA
>
> Sent from my Atari 400
>
> On Jun 23, 2020, at 5:51 AM, Mark Roland  wrote:
>
> 
> What is this "Just riding for fun" you refer to? Blasphemy. (Just ride;^)
>
> On Monday, June 22, 2020 at 7:44:38 PM UTC-4, Eric Norris wrote: If I’m
> doing a very long ride at my destination (like a brevet or PBP), I will
> bring a full-sized bike and pay the fee. If I’m just riding for fun, I
> bring the Brompton.
>
>>
>> --Eric Norris
>> campyo...@me.com
>> Insta: @CampyOnlyGuy
>> YouTube: YouTube.com/CampyOnlyGuy
>>
>> On Jun 22, 2020, at 3:25 PM, eddietheflay  wrote:
>>
>> or Dahon Allegro:
>>
>>
>> https://www.worthpoint.com/worthopedia/dahon-allegro-breakaway-folding-bike-194833770
>>
>> On Thursday, June 18, 2020 at 4:41:28 PM UTC-7, Jay Lonner wrote:
>>>
>>> I'm interested in building up travel bikes for my wife and me. Our
>>> intended use is credit card touring in continental Europe and the British
>>> Isles. We also have a developing interest in cruising the Salish Sea, so
>>> I'd like something small enough to store belowdecks out of the corrosive
>>> marine environment, and that would be easy to get ashore via dinghy.
>>>
>>> It seems that there are many ways to proceed, ranging from S couplers
>>> to 20" wheel designs like Bike Friday to rinko. All have their proponents
>>> and detractors. My priorities are comfort, ease of assembly/disassembly,
>>> avoidance of proprietary/specialized parts, and the ability to fit racks,
>>> fenders, and lights. I prefer plodding utilitarian considerations to zippy
>>> performance.
>>>
>>> While our daily rides embrace Riv-approved technologies such as rim
>>> brakes and friction shifting, I am open to other options for these proposed
>>> travel bikes. When we're away from home I'm really looking for something
>>> bombproof. Rear derailleurs strike me as a particular vulnerability,
>>> especially on bikes with 20" wheels. At the moment I'm leaning towards
>>> designs that utilize a Rohloff hub.
>>>
>>> Anyway, so many choices, so many tradeoffs - I'm stuck! What would you
>>> do within the design constraints outlined above, if budget weren't really a
>>> consideration? (That's one of the nice things about bikes - even an
>>> extravagant build is super affordable compared to boats.)
>>>
>>> Help me RBW collective, you're my only hope!
>>>
>>> Jay Lonner
>>> Bellingham, WA
>>>
>>>
>>>
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Re: [RBW] Travel bikes

[Ian A]

Jay,

I would urge you to take a look at the Moulton options. The Moulton SST uses 
discs and is optimised for IGH. The frame separates into two, so not a folder. 
The link shows UK prices which include VAT, so outside EU price the 20% VAT is 
deducted. The UK £ is a bargain right now which makes a lot of UK homegrown 
products a bargain.

BF also excellent and a US company. The Moulton is just a different option and 
a favourite among long distance riders (travelling or not).

https://www.traditionalcycleshop.co.uk/moulton-bicycles/moulton-sst-11

IanA Alberta Canada





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[RBW] Re: Frame repair in the Bay Area?

[eddietheflay]

Hello Corwin, I am really glad to hear Bernie is doing fine and still able 
to create nice bike stuff.

On Monday, June 22, 2020 at 1:11:30 PM UTC-7, Brendan Willard in SF wrote:
>
> I have a steel Ritchey that needs a crack on the chainstay repaired.  I 
> thought Mikkelsen would be the way to go unless anyone has abetter 
> suggestion.  Thanks in advance!
>

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[RBW] Re: Frame repair in the Bay Area?

[Corwin]

Hi Eddie -

Bernie Mikkelsen does indeed have a helper. I saw a custom stem he made for 
Grant a few months back. Bernie is as good as ever. His helper handles much 
of the stuff Bernie has trouble with as well as driving him around.

Namaste,


Corwin

On Monday, June 22, 2020 at 3:46:38 PM UTC-7, eddietheflay wrote:
>
> Does Mikkelsen have a good helper these days? I know he had a stroke a 
> number of years ago and was less than 100% when I had him do work on my 
> Kogswell with a dent in the top tube.
>
> And I have not worked with Litton but have heard many a story about less 
> than timely response and turnaround. Obviously he is good to great at what 
> he does.
>
> If the problem on your frame is just the chain stay that would suggest it 
> would be not too expensive to ship that half of the frame to someone who is 
> both competent and timely.
>
> I wonder about the crack in your frame. I have two friends who had Ti 
> Breakaway frames and both suffered longitudinal cracks in the chain stay. 
> Ritchey replaced them under warranty cuz it looked like poor quality tubes. 
>
> On Monday, June 22, 2020 at 1:11:30 PM UTC-7, Brendan Willard in SF wrote:
>>
>> I have a steel Ritchey that needs a crack on the chainstay repaired.  I 
>> thought Mikkelsen would be the way to go unless anyone has abetter 
>> suggestion.  Thanks in advance!
>>
>

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Re: [RBW] Travel bikes

[Bill Schairer]

Two bikes?  I’m having trouble picturing those tires.  Mine are 32mm and I 
have to let some air out to get them in the suitcase.  I’m wondering if you 
would have to remove the tires to fit the suitcase, or are you not going 
for a suitcase?  Looks like great build(s)!  Those should be able to most 
anything at all.

Bill S

On Tuesday, June 23, 2020 at 11:52:22 AM UTC-7, Jay Lonner wrote:
>
> Well I’ve traded a few emails with a rep from BF and he is in the process 
> of generating a quote. Here’s what I told him:
>
> - Dropouts, brazeons, cable guides etc. for disc brakes, linear pull 
> brakes, derailleurs, and Rohloff rear hubs. Maximum Frankenbike flexibility 
> basically, to allow for experimentation. 
>
> - Cliffhanger rims and the fattest tires that can handle fenders. Big 
> Apples 406x60 would be ideal. SON28 front hubs and LX or XT rear hubs. 36 
> spokes front and rear. 
>
> - 110/74 triple cranks, Sugino or Silver, 170mm. 9 speed cassette. Short 
> cage rear derailleur if possible, for ground clearance. A range of 15-90 
> gear inches. 
>
> - Paul Klamper brakes, Paul levers, Silver2 shifters. Jones loop h-bars. 
> (I’m still torn on the brakes - I’m biased in favor of rim brakes but he’s 
> making a good case for discs, and I guess I am curious to try them out.)
>
> - Chris King headsets, UN72 bottom brackets. 
>
> - Rear racks equipped, front decaleur compatible. 
>
> - Electric assist for my wife. 
>
> So that’s my first stab at a potential build, but I’d welcome feedback 
> from the list. Any glaring problems or missed opportunities that I should 
> be thinking about? I’ve never ordered a custom bike before - it’s kind of 
> fun to consider the possibilities...
>
> Jay Lonner
> Bellingham, WA
>
> Sent from my Atari 400
>
> On Jun 23, 2020, at 5:51 AM, Mark Roland  > wrote:
>
> 
> What is this "Just riding for fun" you refer to? Blasphemy. (Just ride;^)
>
> On Monday, June 22, 2020 at 7:44:38 PM UTC-4, Eric Norris wrote: If I’m 
> doing a very long ride at my destination (like a brevet or PBP), I will 
> bring a full-sized bike and pay the fee. If I’m just riding for fun, I 
> bring the Brompton.
>
>>
>> --Eric Norris
>> campyo...@me.com
>> Insta: @CampyOnlyGuy
>> YouTube: YouTube.com/CampyOnlyGuy  
>>
>> On Jun 22, 2020, at 3:25 PM, eddietheflay  wrote:
>>
>> or Dahon Allegro:
>>
>>
>> https://www.worthpoint.com/worthopedia/dahon-allegro-breakaway-folding-bike-194833770
>>
>> On Thursday, June 18, 2020 at 4:41:28 PM UTC-7, Jay Lonner wrote:
>>>
>>> I'm interested in building up travel bikes for my wife and me. Our 
>>> intended use is credit card touring in continental Europe and the British 
>>> Isles. We also have a developing interest in cruising the Salish Sea, so 
>>> I'd like something small enough to store belowdecks out of the corrosive 
>>> marine environment, and that would be easy to get ashore via dinghy.
>>>
>>> It seems that there are many ways to proceed, ranging from S couplers 
>>> to 20" wheel designs like Bike Friday to rinko. All have their proponents 
>>> and detractors. My priorities are comfort, ease of assembly/disassembly, 
>>> avoidance of proprietary/specialized parts, and the ability to fit racks, 
>>> fenders, and lights. I prefer plodding utilitarian considerations to zippy 
>>> performance. 
>>>
>>> While our daily rides embrace Riv-approved technologies such as rim 
>>> brakes and friction shifting, I am open to other options for these proposed 
>>> travel bikes. When we're away from home I'm really looking for something 
>>> bombproof. Rear derailleurs strike me as a particular vulnerability, 
>>> especially on bikes with 20" wheels. At the moment I'm leaning towards 
>>> designs that utilize a Rohloff hub.
>>>
>>> Anyway, so many choices, so many tradeoffs - I'm stuck! What would you 
>>> do within the design constraints outlined above, if budget weren't really a 
>>> consideration? (That's one of the nice things about bikes - even an 
>>> extravagant build is super affordable compared to boats.)
>>>
>>> Help me RBW collective, you're my only hope!
>>>
>>> Jay Lonner
>>> Bellingham, WA
>>>
>>>
>>>
>> -- 
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>> "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
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>> email to rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com.
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>>  
>> 
>> .
>>
>>
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> 

Re: [RBW] Problems with Nitto stems and bars?

[Joe Bernard]

I'm still in the "it's the stem" camp. Reasons: 1. When she loosened it and 
moved the bars up and down the noise was worse. 2. When she slid the bars out 
there was a good bit of gouging on the sleeve like it was dragging on something 
in there. 3. I saw a pic inside the stem and think I could see the burr causing 
that drag. Conclusion: Boscos put a massive amount of leverage on that narrow 
little clamp and I think the interface in there was wonky enough to cause a 
tick/creak. 

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Re: [RBW] Travel bikes

[Jay Lonner]

Well I’ve traded a few emails with a rep from BF and he is in the process of 
generating a quote. Here’s what I told him:

- Dropouts, brazeons, cable guides etc. for disc brakes, linear pull brakes, 
derailleurs, and Rohloff rear hubs. Maximum Frankenbike flexibility basically, 
to allow for experimentation. 

- Cliffhanger rims and the fattest tires that can handle fenders. Big Apples 
406x60 would be ideal. SON28 front hubs and LX or XT rear hubs. 36 spokes front 
and rear. 

- 110/74 triple cranks, Sugino or Silver, 170mm. 9 speed cassette. Short cage 
rear derailleur if possible, for ground clearance. A range of 15-90 gear 
inches. 

- Paul Klamper brakes, Paul levers, Silver2 shifters. Jones loop h-bars. (I’m 
still torn on the brakes - I’m biased in favor of rim brakes but he’s making a 
good case for discs, and I guess I am curious to try them out.)

- Chris King headsets, UN72 bottom brackets. 

- Rear racks equipped, front decaleur compatible. 

- Electric assist for my wife. 

So that’s my first stab at a potential build, but I’d welcome feedback from the 
list. Any glaring problems or missed opportunities that I should be thinking 
about? I’ve never ordered a custom bike before - it’s kind of fun to consider 
the possibilities...

Jay Lonner
Bellingham, WA

Sent from my Atari 400

> On Jun 23, 2020, at 5:51 AM, Mark Roland  wrote:
> 
> 
> What is this "Just riding for fun" you refer to? Blasphemy. (Just ride;^)
> 
> On Monday, June 22, 2020 at 7:44:38 PM UTC-4, Eric Norris wrote: If I’m doing 
> a very long ride at my destination (like a brevet or PBP), I will bring a 
> full-sized bike and pay the fee. If I’m just riding for fun, I bring the 
> Brompton.
>> 
>> --Eric Norris
>> campyo...@me.com
>> Insta: @CampyOnlyGuy
>> YouTube: YouTube.com/CampyOnlyGuy 
>> 
>>> On Jun 22, 2020, at 3:25 PM, eddietheflay  wrote:
>>> 
>>> or Dahon Allegro:
>>> 
>>> https://www.worthpoint.com/worthopedia/dahon-allegro-breakaway-folding-bike-194833770
>>> 
>>> On Thursday, June 18, 2020 at 4:41:28 PM UTC-7, Jay Lonner wrote:
 
 I'm interested in building up travel bikes for my wife and me. Our 
 intended use is credit card touring in continental Europe and the British 
 Isles. We also have a developing interest in cruising the Salish Sea, so 
 I'd like something small enough to store belowdecks out of the corrosive 
 marine environment, and that would be easy to get ashore via dinghy.
 
 It seems that there are many ways to proceed, ranging from S couplers to 
 20" wheel designs like Bike Friday to rinko. All have their proponents and 
 detractors. My priorities are comfort, ease of assembly/disassembly, 
 avoidance of proprietary/specialized parts, and the ability to fit racks, 
 fenders, and lights. I prefer plodding utilitarian considerations to zippy 
 performance. 
 
 While our daily rides embrace Riv-approved technologies such as rim brakes 
 and friction shifting, I am open to other options for these proposed 
 travel bikes. When we're away from home I'm really looking for something 
 bombproof. Rear derailleurs strike me as a particular vulnerability, 
 especially on bikes with 20" wheels. At the moment I'm leaning towards 
 designs that utilize a Rohloff hub.
 
 Anyway, so many choices, so many tradeoffs - I'm stuck! What would you do 
 within the design constraints outlined above, if budget weren't really a 
 consideration? (That's one of the nice things about bikes - even an 
 extravagant build is super affordable compared to boats.)
 
 Help me RBW collective, you're my only hope!
 
 Jay Lonner
 Bellingham, WA
 
 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> -- 
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>>> "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
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>> 
> 
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[RBW] Re: Ultradynamico Tires

[S. Greco]

Are these tires difficult to mount? I know this is largely determined by 
rim choice, but I'm always super worried about buying anything 'tubeless 
compatible'

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[RBW] Re: Brooks Brown v. Black

[Ginz]

I like black with that frame color.

On Tuesday, June 23, 2020 at 9:14:16 AM UTC-4 Will Ashe wrote:

>
>
>
> Plus 1 on the black. It's a nice contrast with the butternut/mustard frame.
>>
>>
> Will Ashe 
>

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Re: [RBW] Problems with Nitto stems and bars?

[Jeremy Till]

I think the mechanical explanation with the sleeve would be that the joint 
between the sleeve and bar is not uniform for the length of the sleeve and 
thus there is some portion where it is not tight, so the sleeve and bar can 
move ever so slightly in relation to one another under stress, producing a 
creaking sound. To be honest I'm not familiar with the manufacturing 
methods, whether the sleeve is crimped into place or bonded or both. But it 
seems reasonable that either way there was some small area, probably near 
the ends of the sleeve, where small movements might be possible. That would 
explain why people have been successful in addressing the creak by either 
dripping lubricant or adhesive (loctite or similar) into the sleeve/bar 
joint. That it was able to penetrate at all suggests there might looser 
areas and that lubricating the two surfaces or adhering them to reduce 
movement suggests that small displacements in these areas would be the 
cause of the noise.  

Again, I still trust the quality of Nitto products and the small amount of 
creaking I've experienced doesn't make me fear that my bar or stem is going 
to fail.  

-Jeremy Till
Sacramento, CA

On Saturday, June 20, 2020 at 7:18:29 PM UTC-7, John Hawrylak wrote:
>
> Leah
>
> When you install the bolt & triangular nut, can you post a picture of the 
> "shelf" without any bolt or nut present??   If the shelf shows no signs of 
> missing metal where the hex bolt contacted it, then the hole for the bolt 
> was drilled lower than it should have been drilled.   This is a possible 
> source of the less than adequate tightening of the stem clamp
>
> I still do not see a mechanistic explanation of why the sleeve on the bar 
> is a source of the ticking noise.I have used a B177 (Noddle) and a B132 
> (radonnuer) in 225mm quill technomics without any sounds.
>
> Without an explanation, other than it happened to others, I would be weary 
> of ruling out use of sleeved bars.
>
> John Hawrylak
> Woodstown NJ. 
>
>
> On Saturday, June 20, 2020 at 7:03:04 PM UTC-4, Bicycle Belle Ding Ding! 
> wrote:
>>
>> Yes, Jeremy, I think I’m doing 52 steel Boscos on the Platypus. I don’t 
>> want bars with sleeves anymore. 
>>
>> For anyone who needs to know: If you want to rid the Technomic stem of 
>> the hex nut and replace it with the triangular nut from Riv, make sure you 
>> also order the bolt. Neither Mark nor I thought I’d need the bolt, but you 
>> do, because the threads are different from one another. Get both bolt and 
>> stem. I just placed my order for the bolt, so hopefully it comes in a few 
>> days and this is the end of the matter! 
>>
>> Leah 
>>
>> Sent from my iPad 
>>
>> > On Jun 20, 2020, at 1:05 PM, Jeremy Till  wrote: 
>> > 
>> > I can't say that I've read every post in the thread but just to echo 
>> something Benz said: in my experience creaking is endemic with all of the 
>> various sleeved Nitto bars, so if the bar in question is of the sleeved 
>> variety that's probably the culprit in my mind. If I remember correctly the 
>> sleeved aluminum Boscos that I rode from 2014-2016 creaked, and those were 
>> clamped in a 4 bolt removable faceplate threadless stem of the appropriate 
>> size, so one of the most solid bar/stem connections out there. The M151 
>> drop bars i currently have on my Rambouillet with a Technomic Deluxe creak 
>> when I pedal out of the saddle. I've always just lived with it because it 
>> didn't really bother me and didn't seem to get worse or otherwise make me 
>> feel like something was about to fail. YMMV, of course, but if avoiding the 
>> creak was a priority and the other solutions suggested didn't work, I'd 
>> consider going back to the steel Boscos (which I assume weren't sleeved) or 
>> other non sleeved bars. 
>> > 
>> > -Jeremy Till 
>> > Sacramento, CA 
>> > 
>> > -- 
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>>
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>>
>>
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[RBW] Re: Velocity Dyads and 50mm Tires

[Ginz]

For the longest time, the average mtb rim was 18mm.  People ran 2.1" 
knobbies.  Nowadays it sounds like you need a 23mm rim to run a 2" commuter 
tire.  Are things changing?  Were they always wrong?  I dunno!

I have one set of wide-ish rims -- Rhyno Lites.  They have Big Apple 2.35" 
tires on them.  I don't notice much of a difference.  Oh well!

I thought about running 2.5" tires but wondered what incredibly wide rims 
I'd need to do it!

Ginz


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[RBW] Re: Dirt droppish questions for smallish impulse buy

[Lucky]

Thanks! 
I haven’t forgotten the pics. I’m on vacation and apparently can’t add pics on 
mobile.
I have the Atlantis with me and will have the RockCombo back when I get home. 
Then i can give it a proper test drive. 
And take some pics.
I will say this: the Atlantis with dirt drop stem and Albatross bars...I’ve 
done it (for years) but it’s not really the leverage bar I need off road at 
this point. 

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[RBW] Re: Velocity Dyads and 50mm Tires

[Justin Kennedy (Brooklyn, NY)]

Not entirely related, but I was running 50mm tires on a set of Velocity 
NoBS rims and kept getting weird flats where the tube looked like it had 
been slashed 3-4". No punctures and not your typical snakebite pinch flat 
pattern. I couldn't figure it out but Velocity said the tires were too wide 
for that rim. (Max they recommend is 45mm which is like a fifth of an inch 
smaller.) I switched to 45's and no problems. I dunno ¯\_(ツ)_/¯  Never 
figured it out but there was something going on with running too big tires 
on those rims. 

On Monday, June 22, 2020 at 1:50:22 PM UTC-4, John Rinker wrote:
>
> Good morning,
>
> Just wondering if anyone else has had an issue with Velocity Dyad rims 
> splitting on the sidewalls while running fatter tires. I have been running 
> some Schwalbe Marathon Mondials (28x2.0) and muy rear rim recently split. I 
> am told by Velocity (who has been very helpful, indeed) that the tires are 
> too big for these rims. 
>
> I love the tires and the rims, but perhaps I need an alternative to the 
> Dyad to run these tires. Any recommendations?
>
> Cheers,
> John
>

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[RBW] Re: Velocity Dyads and 50mm Tires

[Michael Morrissey]

I have Dyads with 50mm Big Bens on my Appaloosa. I've had no problems for 
the 4+ years I've had them. I think I've had such good luck because I am 
religious about keeping them pumped up. I have a digital air compressor 
(the blue one with the gauge from EPAuto on Amazon) and a Silca stainless 
presto adaptor on it. It's way better than any bike pump and way more 
precise. I usually go to 36.5 PSI! I agree with Peter W - 70 PSI is way too 
much.

Good luck! 

m


On Monday, June 22, 2020 at 1:50:22 PM UTC-4, John Rinker wrote:
>
> Good morning,
>
> Just wondering if anyone else has had an issue with Velocity Dyad rims 
> splitting on the sidewalls while running fatter tires. I have been running 
> some Schwalbe Marathon Mondials (28x2.0) and muy rear rim recently split. I 
> am told by Velocity (who has been very helpful, indeed) that the tires are 
> too big for these rims. 
>
> I love the tires and the rims, but perhaps I need an alternative to the 
> Dyad to run these tires. Any recommendations?
>
> Cheers,
> John
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Ultradynamico Tires

[Justin Kennedy]

I ended up ordering the 700c Cava Robusto's for more protection. They
arrived yesterday and I'll probably mount them this week and report back.

On Tue, Jun 23, 2020 at 9:27 AM Will Ashe  wrote:

>
>
> I just ordered the Cava JFF in 700, and they're set to arrive on Thursday.
> I probably won't get around to mounting them right away but I'm happy to
> share my impressions.
>
> Will Ashe
>
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-- 
(c) 347-325-2640
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[RBW] Re: Ultradynamico Tires

[Will Ashe]

I just ordered the Cava JFF in 700, and they're set to arrive on Thursday. 
I probably won't get around to mounting them right away but I'm happy to 
share my impressions.

Will Ashe

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[RBW] Re: Every cog size Shimano 10 speed cog collection

[Bill Lindsay]

John

My last few rides have been on other bikes, but I can assure you I am 
pre-emtively annoyed at the one-tooth jumps.  

Bill Lindsay
El Cerrito, CA

On Tuesday, June 23, 2020 at 5:15:48 AM UTC-7, John Hawrylak wrote:
>
> Bill
>
> How did the cassette work on the test rides?   Did you encounter 
> 'annoyingly small" shifts?
>
> John Hawrylak
> Woodstown NJ
>
> On Monday, June 15, 2020 at 6:37:47 PM UTC-4, Bill Lindsay wrote:
>>
>> The 12-21 indexes great in the stand, so I'll take it out on the hilly 
>> road standard The Three Bears.  I'm expecting that it will be a grind to 
>> push the 30-21 up Papa Bear, and back up Wildcat on the way back home.  
>>
>> Bill Lindsay
>> El Cerrito, CA
>>
>> On Monday, June 15, 2020 at 3:09:35 PM UTC-7, John Hawrylak wrote:
>>>
>>> Bill
>>>
>>> great details and good work.
>>>
>>> I think you will find the gear change below 17T as 'annoyingly small".  
>>>
>>> John Hawrylak
>>> Woodstown NJ
>>>
>>

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[RBW] Re: Brooks Brown v. Black

[Will Ashe]

Plus 1 on the black. It's a nice contrast with the butternut/mustard frame.
>
>
Will Ashe 

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Re: [RBW] Travel bikes

[Mark Roland]

What is this "Just riding for fun" you refer to? Blasphemy. (Just ride;^)

On Monday, June 22, 2020 at 7:44:38 PM UTC-4, Eric Norris wrote: If I’m 
doing a very long ride at my destination (like a brevet or PBP), I will 
bring a full-sized bike and pay the fee. If I’m just riding for fun, I 
bring the Brompton.

>
> --Eric Norris
> campyo...@me.com 
> Insta: @CampyOnlyGuy
> YouTube: YouTube.com/CampyOnlyGuy  
>
> On Jun 22, 2020, at 3:25 PM, eddietheflay  > wrote:
>
> or Dahon Allegro:
>
>
> https://www.worthpoint.com/worthopedia/dahon-allegro-breakaway-folding-bike-194833770
>
> On Thursday, June 18, 2020 at 4:41:28 PM UTC-7, Jay Lonner wrote:
>>
>> I'm interested in building up travel bikes for my wife and me. Our 
>> intended use is credit card touring in continental Europe and the British 
>> Isles. We also have a developing interest in cruising the Salish Sea, so 
>> I'd like something small enough to store belowdecks out of the corrosive 
>> marine environment, and that would be easy to get ashore via dinghy.
>>
>> It seems that there are many ways to proceed, ranging from S couplers 
>> to 20" wheel designs like Bike Friday to rinko. All have their proponents 
>> and detractors. My priorities are comfort, ease of assembly/disassembly, 
>> avoidance of proprietary/specialized parts, and the ability to fit racks, 
>> fenders, and lights. I prefer plodding utilitarian considerations to zippy 
>> performance. 
>>
>> While our daily rides embrace Riv-approved technologies such as rim 
>> brakes and friction shifting, I am open to other options for these proposed 
>> travel bikes. When we're away from home I'm really looking for something 
>> bombproof. Rear derailleurs strike me as a particular vulnerability, 
>> especially on bikes with 20" wheels. At the moment I'm leaning towards 
>> designs that utilize a Rohloff hub.
>>
>> Anyway, so many choices, so many tradeoffs - I'm stuck! What would you do 
>> within the design constraints outlined above, if budget weren't really a 
>> consideration? (That's one of the nice things about bikes - even an 
>> extravagant build is super affordable compared to boats.)
>>
>> Help me RBW collective, you're my only hope!
>>
>> Jay Lonner
>> Bellingham, WA
>>
>>
>>
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>  
> 
> .
>
>
>

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[RBW] End-of-Spring Rides

[True Golden]

Wonderful pics Patrick!!!

I always look forward to your latest pics.
Paul in Dallas 

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[RBW] Re: Every cog size Shimano 10 speed cog collection

['John Hawrylak' via RBW Owners Bunch]

Bill

How did the cassette work on the test rides?   Did you encounter 
'annoyingly small" shifts?

John Hawrylak
Woodstown NJ

On Monday, June 15, 2020 at 6:37:47 PM UTC-4, Bill Lindsay wrote:
>
> The 12-21 indexes great in the stand, so I'll take it out on the hilly 
> road standard The Three Bears.  I'm expecting that it will be a grind to 
> push the 30-21 up Papa Bear, and back up Wildcat on the way back home.  
>
> Bill Lindsay
> El Cerrito, CA
>
> On Monday, June 15, 2020 at 3:09:35 PM UTC-7, John Hawrylak wrote:
>>
>> Bill
>>
>> great details and good work.
>>
>> I think you will find the gear change below 17T as 'annoyingly small".  
>>
>> John Hawrylak
>> Woodstown NJ
>>
>

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[RBW] Re: fresh new look for google groups?????

[Nick Payne]

And another additional dumbing down I came across in the new interface - 
the only option for adding an image to a message is to have the image 
already on your PC - no way to specify a URL for an image on the web.

On Tuesday, 23 June 2020 15:24:25 UTC+10, Nick Payne wrote:
>
> I had a brief look and switched back:
>
> a) When you look at the group overview, there doesn't appear to be 
> anything to indicate which threads have any new posts.
>
> b) All the toolbar icons are pretty much identical. You have to hover the 
> mouse over each one to see what it does.
>
>
> On Tuesday, 23 June 2020 at 1:20:24 pm UTC+10 Kieran J wrote:
>
>> I tried the new one and then immediately switched it back LOL.
>>
>> KJ
>>
>>
>> On Monday, June 22, 2020 at 7:06:35 PM UTC-7, eddietheflay wrote:
>>>
>>> i am thinking newer may not be better. you?
>>>
>>

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[RBW] Re: Brooks Brown v. Black

[Mark Roland]

Just remember while you are imparting this beausage, do not wear your 
khakis. Because that type of patina in that area on pants is...problematic.

On Saturday, June 20, 2020 at 9:27:57 PM UTC-4, William deRosset wrote:
>
> I vote for riding the black saddle until it looks brown. I have one 
> Berthoud saddle that is approaching antique brown via usage, and a Brooks 
> Pro that is there. The well used but not abused look is the best one.
>
> Best Regards,
>
> Will
> William M deRosset
> Fort Collins CO USA
>
>

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