[RBW] Re: Sugino Granny Gear

[dougP]

John:

You wore out a stainless granny gear?  How in the world?  The original 
steel Sugino that came on my Atlantis in '03 still looks good & works fine, 
& I've used it (what I thought was) quite a bit.

BTW, if anyone else wants a granny, I've got a couple of 24 & 26 tooth 
ones, some aluminum, some stainless.  I collect things "just in case"

dougP

On Thursday, October 8, 2020 at 8:34:02 PM UTC-7, John Rinker wrote:
>
> Thanks All,
>
> The granny I've got is stainless, without countersinks, and therefore, if 
> I've read correctly, reversible. Woo hoo!
>
> Cheers,
> John
>
> On Friday, October 9, 2020 at 11:54:04 AM UTC+9 Paul Brodek wrote:
>
>> Gee, I had a whole spiel ready to post, but doug 'n' Nick P. said it all 
>> first.
>>
>> I'll just say that I just checked my on-hand stash, both aluminum and 
>> steel, and can confirm what they've said. 
>>
>> Paul Brodek
>> Hillsdale, NJ USA
>>
>>
>> On Thursday, October 8, 2020 at 10:27:55 PM UTC-4, John Rinker wrote:
>>>
>>> Good afternoon,
>>>
>>> Can anyone shed light on whether the granny gear on the Sugino triple 
>>> crank is symmetrical and therefore reversable?
>>>
>>> Thanks. 
>>>
>>

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[RBW] Re: OT: FS For Sale Film Cameras, Olympus OM-1, Nikon F

[Mark Roland]

Update:

Just the Minolta is left, and the Domke bag. I'll consider this a wrap. 
Thank you.

On Tuesday, October 6, 2020 at 12:20:50 PM UTC-4, Mark Roland wrote:
>
> Thanks for the responses. Update. What's left:
>
> Olympus OM-1 I put in one of those batteries for the light meter that, 
> once you open package, has a limited life from what I understand. This can 
> also be converted to take a more traditional battery. Camera works great, 
> includes straps, case, and manuals.  $85 plus shipping.
>
> Minolta SRT-100 My old camera from college. $20, plus shipping.
>
> I guess I will keep the domke bag for another few years...
>
> Mike, not too late to recapture those days with an SRT-100!
>
> On Tuesday, October 6, 2020 at 12:40:40 AM UTC-4, Mike Godwin wrote:
>>
>> Cool cameras Mark. I used a SRT100 on jobs at a giant factory in Los 
>> Angeles, on the west slope of the Rockies, superfun_d sites in CA and TX, 
>> and in England and Turkey. Ioved being able to control the exposures, but 
>> man it was heavy some times, the electronic point and shoot won out 
>> eventually.
>>
>> I get a kick out of us taking photos of film cameras with, I assume, is 
>> an electronic camera. An anachronism at its best.
>>
>> Mike SLO CA 
>>
>> On Monday, October 5, 2020 at 11:38:36 AM UTC-7, Mark Roland wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> I've seen the occasional post for film cameras here on RBWOB; if I am 
>>> out of bounds let me know. These are for taking photographs of your 
>>> Rivendell bike. Will consider trade for Platypus or Charlie Gallup. I love 
>>> the idea of shooting film , and I did when I was younger, including a few 
>>> courses in college. But after shooting a couple of rolls recently, I 
>>> realized I do not currently have the life style to support this pursuit. 
>>> Hopefully someone here does. 
>>>
>>> 1. Olympus OM-1 I put in one of those batteries for the light meter 
>>> that, once you open package, has a limited life from what I understand. 
>>> This can also be converted to take a more traditional battery. Camera works 
>>> great, includes straps, case, and manuals.  $95 plus $20 flat rate large 
>>> box.
>>>
>>> 2. Nikon F.  A real 1970s work horse.  $40. Plus shipping 8x8x8 box, 
>>> 4lbs from 12508.
>>>
>>> 3. Diax 1a 35mm viewfinder See here for info: 
>>> https://www.shutterbug.com/content/diax-family-lineup-versatile-35mm-cameras
>>> $30 plus same shipping as Nikon.
>>>
>>> 4. Minolta SRT-100 My old camera from college. $20, plus same shipping 
>>> as Nikon. (strap is worth it!)
>>>
>>> 5. vintage canvas domke bag.  Like this one, but in better shape 
>>> .
>>>  
>>> I had vague ideas of turning this into a cool handlebar bag. But I have a 
>>> cool handlebar bag. Plus I don't really use handlebar bags, cool or 
>>> otherwise. $70 shipped.
>>>
>>> [image: IMG_20201005_104808675.jpg]
>>>
>>> Please reply off list. Thanks.
>>> PHotos Here:  https://photos.app.goo.gl/cmMKVM71bumpGWYz8
>>>
>>

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[RBW] Re: Question about 1 1/8" headset for Hubbuhubbuh

[Mark Roland]

Thanks for the suggestions. I think everything is as it should be, just 
some overzealous masking, as Laing points out. With older style headsets 
that head tube edge is often covered, and gets faced. So maybe some 
confusion at the factory on a few frames. I might hit it with some nice 
contrasting nail polish (but at this point not removing the cup to do it.)

On Thursday, October 8, 2020 at 1:37:49 PM UTC-4, lconley wrote:
>
> My Hubbuhubbuh is over-masked in another area - the brake posts. There was 
> about 1/8 of an inch of exposed, unpainted (un-powder coated?) brake post 
> showing after I installed the Paul Linear brakes. I removed the brakes and 
> painted the exposed part of the posts with the orange touch-up paint from 
> another one of my bicycles - not a perfect match, but good enough.
>
> I would definitely remove the cups and prep and paint before further 
> assembly. But I am one of those that hates beausage and rust.
>
> Laing
>
>
>
>>

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[RBW] Re: Sugino Granny Gear

[John Rinker]

Thanks All,

The granny I've got is stainless, without countersinks, and therefore, if 
I've read correctly, reversible. Woo hoo!

Cheers,
John

On Friday, October 9, 2020 at 11:54:04 AM UTC+9 Paul Brodek wrote:

> Gee, I had a whole spiel ready to post, but doug 'n' Nick P. said it all 
> first.
>
> I'll just say that I just checked my on-hand stash, both aluminum and 
> steel, and can confirm what they've said. 
>
> Paul Brodek
> Hillsdale, NJ USA
>
>
> On Thursday, October 8, 2020 at 10:27:55 PM UTC-4, John Rinker wrote:
>>
>> Good afternoon,
>>
>> Can anyone shed light on whether the granny gear on the Sugino triple 
>> crank is symmetrical and therefore reversable?
>>
>> Thanks. 
>>
>

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[RBW] Re: Sugino Granny Gear

[Paul Brodek]

Gee, I had a whole spiel ready to post, but doug 'n' Nick P. said it all 
first.

I'll just say that I just checked my on-hand stash, both aluminum and 
steel, and can confirm what they've said. 

Paul Brodek
Hillsdale, NJ USA


On Thursday, October 8, 2020 at 10:27:55 PM UTC-4, John Rinker wrote:
>
> Good afternoon,
>
> Can anyone shed light on whether the granny gear on the Sugino triple 
> crank is symmetrical and therefore reversable?
>
> Thanks. 
>

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[RBW] Re: Sugino Granny Gear

[dougP]

John:

I lied.  The Sugino I have does NOT have any countersinks.  The one with 
the countersinks is a Shimano.  The Sugino feels heavier so I suspect it's 
steel & Shimano is aluminum.  

dougP

On Thursday, October 8, 2020 at 7:27:55 PM UTC-7, John Rinker wrote:
>
> Good afternoon,
>
> Can anyone shed light on whether the granny gear on the Sugino triple 
> crank is symmetrical and therefore reversable?
>
> Thanks. 
>

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[RBW] Re: Sugino Granny Gear

[Nick Payne]

Depends on the chainring. Aluminium granny rings are thicker than the 
thickness of the teeth, and usually have the teeth slightly offset to one 
side, so if you reverse one of those, that alters the effective spacing 
between the granny and middle chainring. They also have the mounting holes 
relieved on one side for the head of the chainring bolt.

Stainless steel granny rings are normally no thicker than the teeth, and 
have no relieving of the bolts holes, so they are fully reversible.

Nick

On Friday, 9 October 2020 13:27:55 UTC+11, John Rinker wrote:
>
> Good afternoon,
>
> Can anyone shed light on whether the granny gear on the Sugino triple 
> crank is symmetrical and therefore reversable?
>
> Thanks. 
>

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[RBW] Re: Sugino Granny Gear

[dougP]

On the spare I've got, the bolt holes have a counter-sink for the mounting 
bolts, so probably not meant to be reversed.  OTH, if your drivetrain has 
some clearance in that area, it may not matter.

I have a couple of granny rings & can check for that detail & the 
manufacture.  I know the Sugino I have has the countersink.  

dougP

On Thursday, October 8, 2020 at 7:27:55 PM UTC-7, John Rinker wrote:
>
> Good afternoon,
>
> Can anyone shed light on whether the granny gear on the Sugino triple 
> crank is symmetrical and therefore reversable?
>
> Thanks. 
>

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[RBW] Sugino Granny Gear

[John Rinker]

Good afternoon,

Can anyone shed light on whether the granny gear on the Sugino triple crank 
is symmetrical and therefore reversable?

Thanks. 

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[RBW] WTB: Brooks B17 black saddle

[Julian Westerhout]

As the title says -- I'm looking for a decent, need not be perfect, but 
lots of life left in it black B17 saddle. 

Let me know what you've got and what you want for it. 

Thanks, 

Julian Westerhout
Bloomington, IL 

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[RBW] Re: Sturmey Archer S3X hub, 130 mm OL, 32 spoke, gold barrel, almost new; well used but still smooth 130 mm OL Surly fixed/free hub

[Patrick Moore]

*And* the Surly hub is silver.

*And:* I filled the S3X with grease, plain old axle grease, per a
recommendation I read online; no pawls to worry about, and I didn't notice
any added drag.

On Thu, Oct 8, 2020 at 3:39 PM Patrick Moore  wrote:

> Sorry, the Surly is also 32 hole.
>
> On Thu, Oct 8, 2020 at 3:38 PM Patrick Moore  wrote:
>
>> I've put less than 200 miles on the S3X. With original bar-end shifter
>> but nuts and anti-rotation washers may be aftermarket. $95 shipped CONUS.
>>
>> The Surly is well used but I did have the bearings replaced mid-life --
>> perhaps 4K miles on the new bearings? -- but it spins smooth, if you can
>> accept an adverbial adjective. $35 shipped CONUS. With used but still
>> usable lockring.
>>
>> Please reply offlist to bertin...@gmail.com.
>>
>> Thanks.
>>
>> --
>>
>> ---
>> Patrick Moore
>> Alburquerque, Nuevo Mexico, Etats Unis d'Amerique, Orbis Terrarum
>>
>>
>
> --
>
> ---
> Patrick Moore
> Alburquerque, Nuevo Mexico, Etats Unis d'Amerique, Orbis Terrarum
>
>

-- 

---
Patrick Moore
Alburquerque, Nuevo Mexico, Etats Unis d'Amerique, Orbis Terrarum

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[RBW] Re: Sturmey Archer S3X hub, 130 mm OL, 32 spoke, gold barrel, almost new; well used but still smooth 130 mm OL Surly fixed/free hub

[Patrick Moore]

Sorry, the Surly is also 32 hole.

On Thu, Oct 8, 2020 at 3:38 PM Patrick Moore  wrote:

> I've put less than 200 miles on the S3X. With original bar-end shifter but
> nuts and anti-rotation washers may be aftermarket. $95 shipped CONUS.
>
> The Surly is well used but I did have the bearings replaced mid-life --
> perhaps 4K miles on the new bearings? -- but it spins smooth, if you can
> accept an adverbial adjective. $35 shipped CONUS. With used but still
> usable lockring.
>
> Please reply offlist to bertin...@gmail.com.
>
> Thanks.
>
> --
>
> ---
> Patrick Moore
> Alburquerque, Nuevo Mexico, Etats Unis d'Amerique, Orbis Terrarum
>
>

-- 

---
Patrick Moore
Alburquerque, Nuevo Mexico, Etats Unis d'Amerique, Orbis Terrarum

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[RBW] FS: Sturmey Archer S3X hub, 130 mm OL, 32 spoke, gold barrel, almost new; well used but still smooth 130 mm OL Surly fixed/free hub

[Patrick Moore]

I've put less than 200 miles on the S3X. With original bar-end shifter but
nuts and anti-rotation washers may be aftermarket. $95 shipped CONUS.

The Surly is well used but I did have the bearings replaced mid-life --
perhaps 4K miles on the new bearings? -- but it spins smooth, if you can
accept an adverbial adjective. $35 shipped CONUS. With used but still
usable lockring.

Please reply offlist to bertin...@gmail.com.

Thanks.

-- 

---
Patrick Moore
Alburquerque, Nuevo Mexico, Etats Unis d'Amerique, Orbis Terrarum

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[RBW] FS: Treetop Goods large rack bag, plus more

[Shawn Granton]

Hello, list of Riv-

I've got a large bike bag for sale. Custom made by David Banzer of Treetop 
in Chicago, this rather large canvas bag is meant for a large front rack. I 
had this specifically made for the Wald 257 Pizza Rack, but should also 
work in the Wald 157 Giant Delivery Basket or some similarly obscene sized 
platform “porteur” rack. The exterior has a “daisy chain” along the base 
for small straps. Interior contains a small pocket sewn to the top. 
Approximate dimensions 18″x13″x13″. Small abrasion hole on one of the 
bottom corners, otherwise in good shape. *$40 plus shipping. **If 
interested, message me or email me at urbanadventurelea...@gmail.com with 
your ZIP code so I can determine shipping.*

To see photos of the bag and all the other items I have for sale, go here:
https://urbanadventureleague.wordpress.com/2020/10/08/for-sale-custom-bike-bag-other-bike-bits-clothing-etc/

Best,
Shawn

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[RBW] Re: Question about 1 1/8" headset for Hubbuhubbuh

[lconley]

My Hubbuhubbuh is over-masked in another area - the brake posts. There was 
about 1/8 of an inch of exposed, unpainted (un-powder coated?) brake post 
showing after I installed the Paul Linear brakes. I removed the brakes and 
painted the exposed part of the posts with the orange touch-up paint from 
another one of my bicycles - not a perfect match, but good enough.

I would definitely remove the cups and prep and paint before further 
assembly. But I am one of those that hates beausage and rust.

Laing



>

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[RBW] ISO/WTT/WTB: smallish "bikepacking type" seat bag, shallow, orange, can hold 7" wide notebook

[Patrick Moore]

Long shot, I know, but I just missed a recent listsale of an orange bag of
this type. Requirements:

1. Orange, or black or gray with orange accents.
2. Hell, even all black is fine. But either orange or black or both.
3. Requires no more than 7" between bottom of saddle rail to bottom of bag.
4. Is of the sort that expands in length, ie rearward, like the Revelate
Viscacha.
5. Is well made and in good condition.
6. Allows you to squeeze in something 8" wide at a pinch.
7. Expands by unrolling rearward or, in other words, lets you roll it up
and cinch it tightly when empty.
8. Carries at least 7-8 litres.

The smaller Revelate Terrapin would be spot-on if black (don't think it has
any orange). Yes, I can buy a Terrapin but hoping to get cheap and orange.

Thanks!

-- 

---
Patrick Moore
Alburquerque, Nuevo Mexico, Etats Unis d'Amerique, Orbis Terrarum

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[RBW] Re: Question about 1 1/8" headset for Hubbuhubbuh

[Garth]

  Mark, the pictures on the website show the same thing. Silicone would 
seal it best, but man oh man, it really ought not to be there in the first 
place. Imagine leaving gaps around door and window installs and declaring 
"oh well, close enough" !  

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Re: [RBW] silver shifter slip under load

[Patrick Moore]

BTW, the finicky chain tracking is not necessarily related to slipping
shifters; I've had it happen with shifters that never slipped. But for
slipping, to repeat it again, loudly: blue Loctite fixed my Silvers as it
did the old Campy Record DT shifters that are notorious for loosening, and
that I used on the ineffably nice Kelly Take-Off mounts.


Alburquerque, Nuevo Mexico, Etats Unis d'Amerique, Orbis Terrarum

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Re: [RBW] silver shifter slip under load

[Patrick Moore]

Again, blue Loctite solved the slipping problem with my first gen Silver
BES.

On Thu, Oct 8, 2020 at 7:50 AM lambbo  wrote:

> Nikko, I've had the same problem with my Silver 2 Shifters...very handsome
> but (besides immediate rusting on the bolts) they just don't really work -
> I have to tighten them so much that they're hard to shift, and then they
> slip back again a few shifts later.  I don't have this problem with my old
> Silver shifters, set up downtube.
>
> On Thursday, October 8, 2020 at 8:21:21 AM UTC-4 lconley wrote:
>
>> Note that if you use brake housing or non-index shifter cable housing for
>> your shifter cable housing, it can cause derailleur movement under load and
>> when turning if your shifters are bar or stem mounted. This was not of
>> concern back when freewheels had five (yes I am old) or six widely spaced
>> cogs, but if you are running 9, 10, 11+ cogs, it may contribute to unwanted
>> gear changes. Irrelevant if the shifter is slipping because it is loose,
>> but something to check if the shifter is not at fault
>>
>> Laing
>> Delray Beach FL
>>
>>>
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> 
> .
>


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---
Patrick Moore
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Re: [RBW] silver shifter slip under load

[Patrick Moore]

I've experienced finicky chain tracking myself on the middle cogs, but I've
found one can replace the troublesome cogs with others of the same size
that aren't as finicky. Even better, my most recent cassette, built out of
real Miche 10-speed cogs (instead of 7, 8, and 9 speed leftovers from my
cog box) keeps the chain tracking wonderfully even when shifting with the
far lower MA Suntour bar cons; perhaps this is because I tried the trick
(per Bike Radar) of using an 11 speed chain on the 10 speed cassette.

That said, IME, otherwise HG cogs work very well with friction; at least as
well as non HG cogs, and I think, overall, better.

Perhaps try the trick of using a chain 1 generation thinner than your
cassette.

On Thu, Oct 8, 2020 at 3:22 AM Garth  wrote:

>
>
>FWIW, I've noticed on my 9sp 12-36 cassette the middle cogs in
> particular have to spot-on with the chain in order to hold the gear.
> Contrast that to my Sachs 7sp FW that offers a whole lotta leeway in that
> regard. The cassette cogs are so contoured/shaped to facilitate ease of
> shifts with their indexed shifters. With a friction shifter such isn't
> necessary or helpful, even maddening at times as you have experienced Sam.
>
>   Since I ride bike with both cassettes and freewheels it sometimes takes
> some "time to remember" the seemingly wacky nature of shifting cassette
> cogs compared to freewheel cogs.
>
>   The Sprint shifters never were very good at holding the gear without the
> assistance of a thread locker. Back when they came out in the 80's I always
> preferred Campy DT shifters as they held their tension. Contrast the Sprint
> with SunTour's original thumbshifters, which are excellent at holding the
> gear with only modest tension of the bolt, never ever requiring thread
> lockers. The difference between the two is the innards, the thumbshifter
> having a larger radius ratcheting mechanism inside, and the thumbshifters
> have metal washers, no plastic is to found anywhere in those.
>
>
>
>
> On Wednesday, October 7, 2020 at 1:06:11 PM UTC-4, Sam Perez wrote:
>>
>> Interesting perhaps it's also somthing else in the drivetrain. Like the
>> cassette? I have had the bike for 8 years but this one was seldom used.
>> Let's see if the locktight not only helps with lever slip but with the
>> pedals free spinning for a quarter revolution at random times, as a
>> possible slip symptom.
>>
>> Thanks all I'll report back after I test it on some hills.
>>
>>>
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Re: [RBW] Re: Any particular grease cleaner you would recommend!

[Patrick Moore]

Thanks; wasn't aware of the PTFE. And I see just now that ProLink Gold has
very good reviews; Ed Pavelka for one. And, it's a known -- to me --
quantity.

On Thu, Oct 8, 2020 at 8:41 AM James / Analog Cycles 
wrote:

> Hi Patrick,
>
> Between Rock n Roll and Prolink, I'd recommend Prolink.  No PTFE.  Read up
> on it if you have never done so.  Rock N Roll Gold is just teflon solids
> suspended in solvent, more or less.
>
> I'd have to look at the sludge that falls off the chain.  The crud you are
> trying to get rid of isn't dirt per se, it's the metal filing the chain
> produces in the course of use.  Those, when trapped in the rollers, are a
> bigger source of chain wear than anything else I can think of.  If there is
> no metal in the sludge, it's just a superficial cleaning.
>

---
Patrick Moore
Alburquerque, Nuevo Mexico, Etats Unis d'Amerique, Orbis Terrarum

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Re: [RBW] Re: Herse v. VO Crankset

[Mark Roland]

Wow. That sucks. Highly unusual, though. Maybe the crank gods were...cranky 
at him?
Same guy, same new or newish cranks, same kind of ride, two broken cranks 
at the same spot. I suspect other factors than a crank that is prone to 
snapping, so I would not put much weight into this when choosing between 
the two. And you definitely don't need to spend $400 plus to have crank 
peace of mind.

On Thursday, October 8, 2020 at 11:41:41 AM UTC-4, Ryan Stanis wrote:
>
> FWIW, A friend of mine who first got me rando-curious broke two VO crank 
> arms (snapped arm above the pedal) pretty deep into two seperate brevets, 
> which left him DNF pretty far from home. These are the only two instances 
> I've personally heard of them breaking, and that was about 3 years ago. He 
> ended up upgrading to the Herse cranks and has had no issues since.  A 
> costly component, but peace of mind in the deep hours of a 600k is 
> priceless. 
>
> -R
>
>
> On Tue, Oct 6, 2020 at 1:55 PM Brady Smith  > wrote:
>
>> Thanks for everyone's thoughts. I think the VO makes more sense for me 
>> now. I didn't realize the range of chainrings available with the VO 
>> crankset, or that the Herse cranks are only compatible with Herse 
>> chainrings. I'll leave the latter for when the wife finally lets me build a 
>> dream bike. 
>>
>> On Tuesday, October 6, 2020 at 7:09:09 AM UTC-4 Nick Payne wrote:
>>
>>> I thought about getting a Herse crank some while ago, but as I ride 
>>> heels in / toes out, I need a bit of flare out on the crankarms so that my 
>>> heels don't hit the cranks when pedalling. I asked them about this, and was 
>>> told that no, the crankarms are straight fore-aft, so I didn't proceed with 
>>> the purchase. I also wasn't too keen on a crank with a unique bolt circle 
>>> that limits you to a single provider of chainrings.
>>>
>>> Nick
>>>
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>> 
>> .
>>
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Re: [RBW] Re: Herse v. VO Crankset

[Ryan Stanis]

FWIW, A friend of mine who first got me rando-curious broke two VO crank
arms (snapped arm above the pedal) pretty deep into two seperate brevets,
which left him DNF pretty far from home. These are the only two instances
I've personally heard of them breaking, and that was about 3 years ago. He
ended up upgrading to the Herse cranks and has had no issues since.  A
costly component, but peace of mind in the deep hours of a 600k is
priceless.

-R


On Tue, Oct 6, 2020 at 1:55 PM Brady Smith  wrote:

> Thanks for everyone's thoughts. I think the VO makes more sense for me
> now. I didn't realize the range of chainrings available with the VO
> crankset, or that the Herse cranks are only compatible with Herse
> chainrings. I'll leave the latter for when the wife finally lets me build a
> dream bike.
>
> On Tuesday, October 6, 2020 at 7:09:09 AM UTC-4 Nick Payne wrote:
>
>> I thought about getting a Herse crank some while ago, but as I ride heels
>> in / toes out, I need a bit of flare out on the crankarms so that my heels
>> don't hit the cranks when pedalling. I asked them about this, and was told
>> that no, the crankarms are straight fore-aft, so I didn't proceed with the
>> purchase. I also wasn't too keen on a crank with a unique bolt circle that
>> limits you to a single provider of chainrings.
>>
>> Nick
>>
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[RBW] Re: Comparing drop bars to uprights: Path Less Pedaled

[Joel S]

Thanks for posting Doug.  I just got a Sam and have Albatross bars as I do 
on my Bleriot.  The Sam seems more sure footed bit I have a 48mm vs 42mm on 
the Sam.  Drops are not in my reality anymore although I do hold the bars 
just before and even on the curve of the bars a bit.  Of course I only ride 
on smooth roads 99% of the time.  Always good to see these mini reviews.

Joel  

On Friday, October 2, 2020 at 3:04:13 PM UTC-4 dougP wrote:

> PLP has had a test bike from Rivendell for a while now.  It was originally 
> delivered with upright bars.  They recently changed to drops for a head to 
> head test of bars.  Interestingly he liked the drops better, although he's 
> had no complaints about the uprights.  Here's the link:
>
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r-yyNxJcF5M
>
> My question is whether anyone has determined a preferred location for 
> hands in relation to the pivot point of the handlebars?  Hands in front, as 
> with drops?  Hands behind, as with uprights?  
>
> What drives the question is my experience with my Atlantis.  I rode it for 
> many years with drops, and was quite pleased with the handling.  However, 
> over a period of years my hands developed numbness after a while on a 
> ride.  I rode primarily on the tops & brake hoods.  While on a trip, using 
> a rental bike with flat bars, I noticed a complete lack of hand numbness.  
> Hopping back on the Atlantis when I got home, the same hand numbness issue 
> was there.  I've tried various upright bars, first with the same 10cm stem 
> I'd always used, then with a dirt drop.  The numbness is long gone but the 
> bike does seem more sensitive to steering input with the uprights vs the 
> drops.  
>
> Anyone have any ideas on this?
>
> Doug peterson
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Any particular grease cleaner you would recommend!

[Joel Stern]

Thanks James

On Thu, Oct 8, 2020 at 10:34 AM James / Analog Cycles <
analogcyc...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Hi Joel,
>
> I'd say for everyone who values their time, and wants a functional
> drivetrain, a bottle of prolink is the current best bet on the market. If
> you have wet conditions, use prolink to clean, and finish line wet lube to
> lube.
>
> -James
>
> On Wednesday, October 7, 2020 at 10:43:46 AM UTC-4 Joel S wrote:
>
>> I ride on dry Conditions only and was steered to Fastline dry lube.  I
>> also read about Rock and Roll gold.  For my riding are you saying Prolink,
>> and no degreaser?
>>
>> Thanks
>> On Wed, Oct 7, 2020 at 10:10 AM James / Analog Cycles <
>> analog...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Hi Patrick,
>>>
>>> By your own writing, you have the same maintenance interval with prolink
>>> as you do with wax.  400 miles on road, 200 off.  I'd say the difference is
>>> ease of use with prolink.  It's faster, and all you need is a rag and
>>> prolink.  It's less expensive.  It cleans the chain, which wax does not.
>>> It has no PTFE, which is just about the worst thing you can use on your
>>> bike if you are fond of the outdoors.  Ski resorts are ahead of the game on
>>> this, banning PTFE from ski waxes on their slopes.
>>>
>>> So, really, I'd recommend the same thing we use up here in the wet.
>>> Prolink and a rag.  I wouldn't apply the prolink sparingly, it only works
>>> as a cleaner if you get it dripping wet.  Let it sit for a just a few
>>> minutes, then wipe 95% of it off.  Done.  10 minutes, tops, with the post
>>> lube rim cleaning.
>>>
>>> Obviously, everyone is gunna have their own best method.  I want mine to
>>> be fast, effective, affordable and relatively eco friendly.  BTW, if anyone
>>> has used a GOOD actual eco lube, I'm all ears.  I've tried many, been
>>> impressed by none.  Requirements: has to be available stateside.  Not very
>>> eco friendly to fly lube over from England.
>>>
>>> -James
>>>
>>> On Tuesday, October 6, 2020 at 8:48:16 PM UTC-4 Patrick Moore wrote:
>>>
 Sheesh: More clearly and accurately: the main criteria are: chain and
 cog longevity; shifting performance; time between lubes; ease of lubing and
 cleaning; and distant fourth, a clean chain exterior.

 On Tue, Oct 6, 2020 at 6:44 PM Patrick Moore  wrote:

> ... But the main criterion is chain and cog and ring longevity.
> Actually, my rings last forever, so let's say cog and chain longevity; and
> also shifting performance, tho' I presently have onlhy 1 derailleur bike.
>
> Thoughts and suggestions?
>
> Thanks.
>

 --

 ---
 Patrick Moore
 Alburquerque, Nuevo Mexico, Etats Unis d'Amerique, Orbis Terrarum

 --
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Re: [RBW] Re: Any particular grease cleaner you would recommend!

[James / Analog Cycles]

Hi Patrick,

Between Rock n Roll and Prolink, I'd recommend Prolink.  No PTFE.  Read up 
on it if you have never done so.  Rock N Roll Gold is just teflon solids 
suspended in solvent, more or less.

I'd have to look at the sludge that falls off the chain.  The crud you are 
trying to get rid of isn't dirt per se, it's the metal filing the chain 
produces in the course of use.  Those, when trapped in the rollers, are a 
bigger source of chain wear than anything else I can think of.  If there is 
no metal in the sludge, it's just a superficial cleaning.  

Best, james

On Wednesday, October 7, 2020 at 12:47:41 PM UTC-4 Patrick Moore wrote:

> Thanks, James. I've recently applied "Rock 'n' Roll Gold" which I guess is 
> a "dry" lube to a chain and wiped and wiped; was surprised to see how dry 
> the outside of the chain felt the next morning. I'll have to test this 
> again with a little more attention to see if it holds the squeaks at bay 
> for 400 miles (road bike) and to see if the outside of the chain remains 
> clean. If it works, I may switch to this or to Pro Link again.
>
> The wax method does clean the chain, btw; first, there's very little dirt 
> that accumulates on the chain, and second, what does falls off in the 
> melted wax and forms a sludge on the bottom of the crockpot.
>
> But easy as waxing is, you are right, applying Pro Link, etc to the chain 
> while it is on the bike, and wiping half a dozen times is easier yet.
>
> Aside: Long ago -- 2010? -- I used White Lightning, supposed to be dry and 
> clean. It didn't attract sand, but it built up thick coils of grunge on the 
> cogs that you had to scrape off. I'm still finishing up the last 8 oz 
> bottle, probably a good 8-10 years old, by putting a bit on my pedals' clip 
> mechanism every so often; not sure it does much good ...
>
> On Wed, Oct 7, 2020 at 8:10 AM James / Analog Cycles  
> wrote:
>
>> Hi Patrick,
>>
>> By your own writing, you have the same maintenance interval with prolink 
>> as you do with wax.  400 miles on road, 200 off.  I'd say the difference is 
>> ease of use with prolink.  It's faster, and all you need is a rag and 
>> prolink.  It's less expensive.  It cleans the chain, which wax does not.  
>> It has no PTFE, which is just about the worst thing you can use on your 
>> bike if you are fond of the outdoors.  Ski resorts are ahead of the game on 
>> this, banning PTFE from ski waxes on their slopes.  
>>
>> So, really, I'd recommend the same thing we use up here in the wet.  
>> Prolink and a rag.  I wouldn't apply the prolink sparingly, it only works 
>> as a cleaner if you get it dripping wet.  Let it sit for a just a few 
>> minutes, then wipe 95% of it off.  Done.  10 minutes, tops, with the post 
>> lube rim cleaning.
>>
>> Obviously, everyone is gunna have their own best method.  I want mine to 
>> be fast, effective, affordable and relatively eco friendly.  BTW, if anyone 
>> has used a GOOD actual eco lube, I'm all ears.  I've tried many, been 
>> impressed by none.  Requirements: has to be available stateside.  Not very 
>> eco friendly to fly lube over from England.
>>
>> -James
>>
>> On Tuesday, October 6, 2020 at 8:48:16 PM UTC-4 Patrick Moore wrote:
>>
>>> Sheesh: More clearly and accurately: the main criteria are: chain and 
>>> cog longevity; shifting performance; time between lubes; ease of lubing and 
>>> cleaning; and distant fourth, a clean chain exterior. 
>>>
>>> On Tue, Oct 6, 2020 at 6:44 PM Patrick Moore  wrote:
>>>
 ... But the main criterion is chain and cog and ring longevity. 
 Actually, my rings last forever, so let's say cog and chain longevity; and 
 also shifting performance, tho' I presently have onlhy 1 derailleur bike.

 Thoughts and suggestions?

 Thanks.

>>>
>>> -- 
>>>
>>> ---
>>> Patrick Moore
>>> Alburquerque, Nuevo Mexico, Etats Unis d'Amerique, Orbis Terrarum
>>>
>>> -- 
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>>  
>> 
>> .
>>
>
>
> -- 
>
> ---
> Patrick Moore
> Alburquerque, Nuevo Mexico, Etats Unis d'Amerique, Orbis Terrarum
>
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Any particular grease cleaner you would recommend!

[James / Analog Cycles]

Hi Joel, 

I'd say for everyone who values their time, and wants a functional 
drivetrain, a bottle of prolink is the current best bet on the market. If 
you have wet conditions, use prolink to clean, and finish line wet lube to 
lube.  

-James

On Wednesday, October 7, 2020 at 10:43:46 AM UTC-4 Joel S wrote:

> I ride on dry Conditions only and was steered to Fastline dry lube.  I 
> also read about Rock and Roll gold.  For my riding are you saying Prolink, 
> and no degreaser? 
>
> Thanks
> On Wed, Oct 7, 2020 at 10:10 AM James / Analog Cycles  
> wrote:
>
>> Hi Patrick,
>>
>> By your own writing, you have the same maintenance interval with prolink 
>> as you do with wax.  400 miles on road, 200 off.  I'd say the difference is 
>> ease of use with prolink.  It's faster, and all you need is a rag and 
>> prolink.  It's less expensive.  It cleans the chain, which wax does not.  
>> It has no PTFE, which is just about the worst thing you can use on your 
>> bike if you are fond of the outdoors.  Ski resorts are ahead of the game on 
>> this, banning PTFE from ski waxes on their slopes.  
>>
>> So, really, I'd recommend the same thing we use up here in the wet.  
>> Prolink and a rag.  I wouldn't apply the prolink sparingly, it only works 
>> as a cleaner if you get it dripping wet.  Let it sit for a just a few 
>> minutes, then wipe 95% of it off.  Done.  10 minutes, tops, with the post 
>> lube rim cleaning.
>>
>> Obviously, everyone is gunna have their own best method.  I want mine to 
>> be fast, effective, affordable and relatively eco friendly.  BTW, if anyone 
>> has used a GOOD actual eco lube, I'm all ears.  I've tried many, been 
>> impressed by none.  Requirements: has to be available stateside.  Not very 
>> eco friendly to fly lube over from England.
>>
>> -James
>>
>> On Tuesday, October 6, 2020 at 8:48:16 PM UTC-4 Patrick Moore wrote:
>>
>>> Sheesh: More clearly and accurately: the main criteria are: chain and 
>>> cog longevity; shifting performance; time between lubes; ease of lubing and 
>>> cleaning; and distant fourth, a clean chain exterior. 
>>>
>>> On Tue, Oct 6, 2020 at 6:44 PM Patrick Moore  wrote:
>>>
 ... But the main criterion is chain and cog and ring longevity. 
 Actually, my rings last forever, so let's say cog and chain longevity; and 
 also shifting performance, tho' I presently have onlhy 1 derailleur bike.

 Thoughts and suggestions?

 Thanks.

>>>
>>> -- 
>>>
>>> ---
>>> Patrick Moore
>>> Alburquerque, Nuevo Mexico, Etats Unis d'Amerique, Orbis Terrarum
>>>
>>> -- 
>>
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>>
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[RBW] Re: Green Rambouillet, 56cm, new lower price

['Gary L' via RBW Owners Bunch]

Thanks for everyone’s interest in the Ram. It is now off to its new owner 
in San Francisco!

On Monday, October 5, 2020 at 3:00:14 PM UTC-4, Gary L wrote:
>
> Hi all,
>
> I am posting this for a friend who has been unable to ride for a number of 
> years and his Ram has been sitting unused in his garage.  It is "almost" in 
> almost pristine condition with very few miles. There are just a couple of 
> scratches on the top tube from a garage tip over. I've got some touch up 
> paint for those.  Everything is in fantastic condition and the bike is 
> awesome. I've got an original orange Ram and I love these bikes...
>
> He is now asking $1300.
>
> Here are the details:
>
> Rambouillet frame, 56 (cm center to top)
> Noodle bars 44cm
> Technomic stem - 11cm
> Shimano levers and mid reach brakes
> Shimano 9spd bar ends
> Sugino crank 48/36/26, 170mm crank arms
> Nitto seat post
> Brooks Champion B17
> Shimano Xt rear derailler
> Shimano 105 front derailler
> Shimano 105 hubs/Mavic Open Pro rims 32 spokes
> 28mm Ruffy Tuffy tires (nearly new)
> Shimano cassette - 12-32
> Wellgo SPD/flat pedals
>
> The seat height in the pics is 74cm. There's room for 35 Compass Bon Jon 
> Pass tires.
>
> Here's a link to a bunch of pics:  
> https://www.icloud.com/sharedalbum/#B0xJr1PPdJtSRx0
>
> Any questions please email me at:   glandwirth (at) mac (dot) com
>
> Thanks,
> Gary
> Asheville, NC
>
>
> 
>
> 
>

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Re: [RBW] silver shifter slip under load

[lambbo]

Nikko, I've had the same problem with my Silver 2 Shifters...very handsome 
but (besides immediate rusting on the bolts) they just don't really work - 
I have to tighten them so much that they're hard to shift, and then they 
slip back again a few shifts later.  I don't have this problem with my old 
Silver shifters, set up downtube.  

On Thursday, October 8, 2020 at 8:21:21 AM UTC-4 lconley wrote:

> Note that if you use brake housing or non-index shifter cable housing for 
> your shifter cable housing, it can cause derailleur movement under load and 
> when turning if your shifters are bar or stem mounted. This was not of 
> concern back when freewheels had five (yes I am old) or six widely spaced 
> cogs, but if you are running 9, 10, 11+ cogs, it may contribute to unwanted 
> gear changes. Irrelevant if the shifter is slipping because it is loose, 
> but something to check if the shifter is not at fault
>
> Laing
> Delray Beach FL
>
>>


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Re: [RBW] silver shifter slip under load

[lconley]

Note that if you use brake housing or non-index shifter cable housing for 
your shifter cable housing, it can cause derailleur movement under load and 
when turning if your shifters are bar or stem mounted. This was not of 
concern back when freewheels had five (yes I am old) or six widely spaced 
cogs, but if you are running 9, 10, 11+ cogs, it may contribute to unwanted 
gear changes. Irrelevant if the shifter is slipping because it is loose, 
but something to check if the shifter is not at fault

Laing
Delray Beach FL

>
>>>

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Re: [RBW] silver shifter slip under load

[Garth]

   FWIW, I've noticed on my 9sp 12-36 cassette the middle cogs in 
particular have to spot-on with the chain in order to hold the gear. 
Contrast that to my Sachs 7sp FW that offers a whole lotta leeway in that 
regard. The cassette cogs are so contoured/shaped to facilitate ease of 
shifts with their indexed shifters. With a friction shifter such isn't 
necessary or helpful, even maddening at times as you have experienced Sam. 

  Since I ride bike with both cassettes and freewheels it sometimes takes 
some "time to remember" the seemingly wacky nature of shifting cassette 
cogs compared to freewheel cogs. 

  The Sprint shifters never were very good at holding the gear without the 
assistance of a thread locker. Back when they came out in the 80's I always 
preferred Campy DT shifters as they held their tension. Contrast the Sprint 
with SunTour's original thumbshifters, which are excellent at holding the 
gear with only modest tension of the bolt, never ever requiring thread 
lockers. The difference between the two is the innards, the thumbshifter 
having a larger radius ratcheting mechanism inside, and the thumbshifters 
have metal washers, no plastic is to found anywhere in those. 




On Wednesday, October 7, 2020 at 1:06:11 PM UTC-4, Sam Perez wrote:
>
> Interesting perhaps it's also somthing else in the drivetrain. Like the 
> cassette? I have had the bike for 8 years but this one was seldom used. 
> Let's see if the locktight not only helps with lever slip but with the 
> pedals free spinning for a quarter revolution at random times, as a 
> possible slip symptom. 
>
> Thanks all I'll report back after I test it on some hills.
>
>>
>>

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